RE’s Daily Rant-3/8/2011

World War III Expands

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Rant Lite

Today’s rant examines scenarios for the escalating War for Oil in the Middle East. 


Quote of the Day

Revelation 6:8 

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. 





 A Tale of Two Depressions

As the Great Depression progressed onward, the early collapse in RE prices made many Banks insolvent, which then precipitated the Stock Market Crash of 1929. 


Saudi Arabia is Going Down

When the Saudis have to Ban Protests in an already ridiculously repressive state, the End is not far off.

Other Shoes and the Uselessness Premium

“Creating fuel production in a failed- state Libya is beyond the grasp of the EU’s and United States’ unconventional ‘assets’. Blatant military intervention would be opposed by Russia, China and no doubt the other oil- producing autocracies.”




World War III over in the M.E. has ratcheted its way up here quite a bit in the last couple of days.  Dominoes are falling fast and furious now. 

Unlike in Egypt, el-Kabong has shown he isn’t going to exit stage left quietly, and while the MSM tiptoes around the subject saying “Libya MIGHT descend into Civil War”, the truth is apparent, there is ALREADY a full on Civil War going on there. 

Obama-sama has declared “Nothing is off the Table”, and they are floating the idea of arming the rebel forces.  Now exactly who to and how they will issue Assault Rifles and RPGs to isn’t  exactly clear.  Does a Container Ship pull up at the dock and Libyan Towel Heads line up for an issue of Guns and Ammo?  Do they pay for the Ammo or we just hand it out for free?  Nobody is handing me free Ammo!  I am paying through the nose for it here!  These folks live on $2 a day.  How many rounds can you buy for $2 in Libya? 

Then there are the Limeys and the Frogs, the ones most strenuously pushing for a “No Fly Zone” to be established over Libya.  This because apparently for the Brits the boys at the London School of Economics were in bed with el-Kabong, and they are probably looking at losing a shit load of money here if they cannot protect their assets.  For the Frogs, I suspect they along with the Ities get most of the shipments of Libyan Oil, its right across the Mediterranean Sea.  They are getting hit first and hardest with the supply loss, which they have to try to make up from other sources, but this is pretty hard to do when all the other sources are having problems producing also and what they do produce already has been contracted for. 


So, on the Gas shortages/lines/rationing problem, the Ities and the Frogs look like they will be the first Western Countries hit.  I don’t know if either of those countries maintain any kind of SPR.  Labor strikes have already hit the Frogs, if they start having trouble getting gas, France is going to be in the deep doo-doo very quickly.  So these folks want to shut down the Libyan Civil War ASAP and get those Oil Wells producing quickly. 


So if you figure its hitting them first, they should be the ones who sign up a bunch more Mercs for the French Foreign Legion to head over to Libya to guard the Oil Wells.  Both the French and the Brits have plenty of their own Jets, and you don’t even need an Aircraft Carrier, you can sortie the Jets straight out of an airbase in Sicily.  Its only about 300 nautical miles across the Med Sea for them to Bomb Tripoli back to the Stone Age.  So if any Western Countries are about to drop in on this Clusterfuck, one suspects the Brits and the French will be the first to do so. 

While the Civil War has been spinning up, the Refugee issue is getting rapidly bigger.  Just yesterday I read in the MSM the Spin that the refugee issue was not too bad, 100K or so on the borders of Algeria and Egypt.  Today, the number was jacked up an order of magnitude to 1M.  “Humanitarian Crisis” has hit the pages of the MSM.  An HC is ALWAYS the excuse for a UN “Peacekeeping” Force to be dropped into a War Zone.  So I am figuring the UN is negotiating to set up Refugee Camps in Egypt and Algeria, where they will then drop in a shit load of French and Brit Mercs, using these refugee camps as a staging ground for sending in counterinsurgency Special Ops  to try and Capture/Kill el-Kabong. They clearly have to try this before trying to stage up a massive INVASION with Tanks, the hope being if they can come out with el-Kabong’s Head on a Pike, the Rabble will calm down and they can then Restore Order.  Trying alternatively to restore order here by Brute Force will take a LOT of military assets.  Just think about all those WWII Tank Battles in North Africa between Patton, Montgomery and Rommel.  This is a BIG patch of land to try to control this way. 


The question here is just how well prepped is el-Kabong?  How much fuel does he have stored up for his Jets?  How many MREs does he have sequestered to dish out to his “Loyal” troops?  How good a Bunker did he build with his Oil Billions?  Is it better than Hitler’s Bunker?  I’ll bet it is.  Probably has its own Micro Nuke Hitachi Power Plant buried and a deep well drilled down to the water table left over from the Jurrasic Period, 50 years worth of Mountain House Freeze Dried Food and an Underground Hydroponic Farm for growing produce into the next century. LOL. 

Even if he just has an average Bunker though, its unlikely that unless he makes a HUGE mistake and gets caught out in the open making a Speech that the Mossad will be able to take him out quickly.  How LONG can he keep his war machine rolling with fuel and ammo?  Can he hold his OWN Oil fields Hostage, and threaten the Brits and Frogs that if they try to get him he will blow the wells to Kingdom Come?  El-Kabong is CLEARLY psycho enough to do this, you would have to believe he would do it. 

Meanwhile, over in Saudi Arabia, its heating up fast as well.  Despite the Diktat from the House of Saud that all demonstrations are Illegal under Sharia Law and political opponents being arrested and tortured willy nilly, there is a big Demonstration planned for Friday, and I suspect this will get the ball really rolling in Saudi Arabia as well.  The Saudi Royalty has been watching all the shit go down all around them, so I cannot see them tolerating any kind of large demonstration.  If there is one, I suspect the Saudis will go in and hit them hard and fast.  This won’t work to stop the problem, it will make it worse and then Saudi Arabia goes down the same road as Libya.  I certainly cannot see the House of Saud picking up and leaving quietly like the Hoser did from Egypt.  Like el-Kabong, those Sheiks know if they cannot hold onto Power there, they are FINISHED, all their wealth goes Bye-Bye as the “Authorities” at the BIS freeze all their accounts.  They’ll be back to Camel driving. 


So, bottom line here, possibly in as short a time span as one month or so from RIGHT NOW,  we could see along with Libya in full on Civil War, Saudi Arabia in much the same predicament.  This basically completes the path of Anarchy and War stretching from Morocco in North Africa all the way across to Pakistan, easily triple the geographical area of Europe in WWII.  This by itself is World War, but does not even take into account the shit going on between the Koreas, the shit going on in Chechnya, and the shit going on down on the Mexican Border, along with all the shit going down in Ecuador, Venezuela, Colombia et al.  Its WORLD WAR III folks, its here.  So far YOU are still somewhat insulated from this anarchy, but its Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You in some fashion. 

What will the “fashion” be that the Big Show comes to your Theatre?  Well, remembering back to WWII, the Battles all occurred over in Europe and North Africa and China and in the Pacific Islands.  We did not get Bombed over here, but we did have serious rationing.  At the moment, for the most part it looks like that scenario gets repeated, but as I indicated in a prior post, it looks to be worse rationing this time because we do not have our own local supply of Oil in sufficient quantity to keep all the systems developed since running and we have a much larger population. 

The Austerity required this time around here in the FSofA to support the War Machine I think will be too great for the society to bear, and so as this progresses we also will break down into Civil War.  This isn’t going to happen overnight, its still likely a couple of years away.  Still, you have to remember that down in Mexico they are already about in full anarchy as Cantarell stops producing, and this can only mean the border issues down in TX and AZ will increase.  If/when we start having Blackouts/Brownouts in the Big Shities, the FSA in these Shities will take the opportunity to start Looting.  Mad Max commences shortly thereafter.  Forget subsisting on Grasshoppers and Mealworms, if you expect to survive in the Big Shities, you will need to develop a taste for Human Flesh.  Stock up plenty of Curry, all meat tastes the same when Curried, just ask any Chef in an Indian Restaurant.  Cats, Dogs, Mice, 4th Grade Children, Nursing Home residents, whatever, you cannot tell the difference when you load it up with Curry. If/when we get Soylent Green, its about guaranteed it will be flavored with Curry. 


Time is definitely RUNNING OUT now to make your ESCAPE.  I do not recommend you try to escape outside the borders of the FSofA unless you have contacts and some connection to people wherever it is you are planning on evacuating to and you fit in racially, ethnically and religiously with the dominant population of the area.  Do not head for South America unless you speak FLUENT Spanish and/or Portuguese and can pass as Hispanic.  Do not head for Asia unless you speak FLUENT Mandarin and are at least half Han Chinese.  If you are a White, the only places you should head for are the ones where Whites are dominant.  Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Finland, the Falkland Islands, Norway, Tasmania, Tristan de Cunha-Edinburgh of the Seven Seas are about the ONLY places I would ever consider as reasonable to try to evacuate to if you were going to leave the FSofA as a White Person.  Britain is OUT.  Britain is TOAST.  The Sun has SET on the British Empire and the little island they Ruled the World from for a while.  Ireland might be survivable. 

Inside the borders of the FSofA, Numero Uno BEST location for White Folks, ALASKA!!!  Ranked in order on the FSofA Top Ten RE Doomer Holes List: 

1)      Matanuska-Susitna River Valley, Alaska

2)      Juneau/Ketchikan Alaska

3)      The Valley of the Great Salt Lake, Rocky Mountains Utah (especially if you are a Mormon)

4)      Cascade Mountains, Oregon,Washington

5)      Ozarks Mountains, Missouri and Arkansas

6)      Tennessee Valley, Smokey Mountains

7)      Shenandoah Valley, Poconos Mountains

8)      Adirondack Mountains, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire

9)      White Mountains, New Hampshire, Maine

10)  Louisiana Bayou (if you are OK with Sweating all the time)

You can buy some raw land CHEAP in many of these places right now (though not as cheap as it will be in the future, but if you have the money and want to secure the purchase now the prices are not too bad).  A good purchase would be Raw Land bordering on a National Park. Much as I do not believe in Land Ownership for myself, I bought 20 Acres bordering on Mark Twain National Forest and put it in my Grand Nephew’s Name. Used about half my 401K when I cashed out to make that purchase.  He is only 5 years old, but unlike his Dad my Nephew, he has no Debts encumbering him.  The Banksters do not Own him yet. He OWNS that land under our current Goobermint and Property Ownership system, Free & Clear. I’ll pay the Taxes on it long as I can, it is unimproved hunting land and the taxes are low.  My family in Missouri can pack up and go there if things get tough. I have hammered down on them for the last 3 years to Prep Up and be ready to move, I can only hope they will when it becomes necessary, I am too far away otherwise to make a difference for them.  As it is, they aren’t in a bad zone, Springfield MO is a small city surrounded by a lot of working Farms, I think Springfield will do OK for a while.  My Brother-in-Law is a Tool & Die Man, and his company got a contract to supply plumbing fixtures for the building going up on the old WTC site in NYC.  Should keep the company going a few more years if the monetary system does not crap out completely. Call me a Hypocrite if you like for doing this, for taking some of my Illuminati Money and BUYING land, but this IS the system and its not changing this minute, so I might as well get rid of the Fiat this way, eh? WTF else would I do with the money anyhow?  Buy GOLD? Sorry, I don’t need a new Paperweight and besides, I can always go out and pan up some more, it just takes a lot of patience to do it and you get very little each day, but good grief, when its price goes up to $1500/oz, any idiot with a pan can pull up that much in a month of work by a good stream.  Tedious work, but not as bad as flipping burgers at Mickey Ds, and while you do it you can ponder on the nature of existence, quite like when you go Ice Fishing. It’s not stressful, very relaxing actually. 

Of course, you also can only do it for 3 or 4 months or so after the spring thaw, it’s not year-round work.  I expect though that if the Gold price continues to skyrocket, this summer there will be a LOT of Panners out there. LOL.  I am actually considering taking the summer off this year just to Pan, Fish and Hunt.  Probably won’t do it, but I am considering it. Another alternative I am considering for the summer is touring Doomstead locations in NZ and British Columbia, and maybe making a last trip to Europe before it devolves into complete anarchy (assuming that has not already occurred by June). Another alternative I am considering is taking one last Gas Consumptive Tour of the NA Continent, driving from the Mat Valley across the Al-Can and all the way back to my birthplace in NYC.  If it looks like the gas is going to be available for that trip at anything under $5/gallon, I might go for it.  Visit tent cities, check out the real stories across the nation.  Perhaps make some speeches and talk from the pulpit of some Unitarian Churches across the country.  I still have decent connections with the Unitarians, it’s the “religion” I was brought up under. If I use the Bugout Machine for it, it probably costs $10K in fuel.  There is REAL Hypocrisy for you if I do that one. LOL.  But Hell, I am gonna die soon enough anyhow, and the 2000 gallons of gas I use to make this trip isn’t going to make a damn bit of difference anyhow globally speaking, so WTF.  I think it would be a decent utility of the fuel and my money, to chronicle what I see and write about it.  Anyhow, I will decide come around May what I will do this summer. Call this Doomer Vacation Planning.

Anyhow, I have drifted quite a bit in this Rant off the main topic of the evolution of WWIII we are witnessing.  I really do not see at this point how anyone could make the case that WWIII is not already in progress when you look at what is currently going on in the M.E.  At this MOMENT, it is not really affecting directly most of us here in the FSofA, but it most CERTAINLY is affecting millions if not BILLIONS of people across the M.E. countries. All of these countries are LOADED with the weapons of the Industrial War Machine, in order to Maintain Power Puppets like el-Kabong and the Saudi Sheiks have spent a FORTUNE in Oil money buying the tools of high tech warfare, from the assault rifles to the helicopter gunships to the jets.  The system is coming apart at the seams, and now these weapons will be used, one way or the other. It is getting ugly out there NOW, and it is Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You. 

See you on the Other Side. 


16 thoughts on “RE’s Daily Rant-3/8/2011”

  1. RE, when I look at the Mat-Sus valley on a map, it looks like it basically starts at the edge of Anchorage. Aren’t you a little concerned about the FSA of Los Anchorage marching up your way for some freebies?

    As for Utah, if you aren’t a devout Mormon I wouldn’t consider it. Yes, I’m aware it has far more non-Mormons than it did just 20 years ago, but when SHTF, I think there would be effectively forced conversions and probably some barely covert elimination of adult men who weren’t 100% supportive of the Mormon view.

    You skipped some good options in the upper midwest, but that’s for another article.

  2. @Snickers

    I figure when TSHTF for real, most of the folks in Anchorage will move back down to the lower 48. Besides that, between Anchorage and the Mat Valley is Fort Richardson. In the end, any civilians staying up here will be in support of the military which will likely be the defacto Goobermint up here as things fall apart. So I am less concerned with a Zombie problem than with the problems of living inside a militarized police state.

    Far as not going to Utah unless you are Mormon, how hard is it to fake being Mormon? You where a crisp white shirt and tie, highly polished wingtips, carry around the Bible and have a few teenage wives. LOL.

    What spots in the upper midwest? I don;t like the MW because its all Flatlands, no real good geographical defenses.


  3. @Backwards: assume you’re joking about faking being a Mormon, because they have lots and lots of secret rituals, and really weird stuff in their holy texts (stuff that would be hard to make up, or not act surprised when hearing the first time).

    In the upper midwest, anywhere in Michigan’s UP, large parts of northern Wisconsin, Minnesota north of Duluth, most of North Dakota. You have to worry about freezing in all of those, but that’s an issue for many places (like your Alaska). They’re all super low population density with adequate rainfall and other water supplies and food options if you’re resourceful.

  4. What Happens After A “No Fly Zone” Is Instituted Over Libya?
    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 03/08/2011 15:24 -0500


    With the enactment of a no-fly zone over Libya now a matter of days, despite all the rhetoric otherwise, the question becomes what the implications of such an escalation in military activity would be. Stratfor provides one perspective on this development: unlike conventional wisdom that this would lead to brisk and clinical institution of supremacy, Stratfor believes it could actually backfire: “The idea that this would be a quick, surgical and short-term invasion is certainly one scenario, but it is neither certain nor even the most likely scenario. In the same sense, the casualties caused by the no-fly zone would be unknown. The difference is that while a no-fly zone could be terminated easily, it is unlikely that it would have any impact on ground operations. An invasion would certainly have a substantial impact but would not be terminable. Stopping a civil war is viable if it can be done without increasing casualties beyond what they might be if the war ran its course. The no-fly zone likely does that, without ending the civil war. If properly resourced, the invasion option could end the civil war, but it opens the door to extended low-intensity conflict.” Either way, the military outcome is by now likely predetermined, and is a function only of ongoing actions by the now supremely irrational Gaddafi. All we can do is sit back and watch.

    From George Friemdn of Stratfor

    How a Libyan No-fly Zone Could Backfire

    Calls are growing for a no-fly zone over Libya, but a power or coalition of powers willing to enforce one remains elusive.

    In evaluating such calls, it is useful to remember that in war, Murphy’s Law always lurks. What can go wrong will go wrong, in Libya as in Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Complications to Airstrikes

    It has been pointed out that a no-fly zone is not an antiseptic act. In order to protect the aircraft enforcing the no-fly zone, one must begin by suppressing enemy air defenses. This in turn poses an intelligence problem. Precisely what are Libyan air defenses and where are they located? It is possible to assert that Libya has no effective air defenses and that an SEAD (suppression of enemy air defenses) attack is therefore unnecessary. But that makes assumptions that cannot be demonstrated without testing, and the test is dangerous. At the same time, collecting definitive intelligence on air defenses is not as easy as it might appear — particularly as the opposition and thieves alike have managed to capture heavy weapons and armored vehicles, meaning that air defense assets are on the move and under uncertain control.

    Therefore, a no-fly zone would begin with airstrikes on known air defense sites. But it would likely continue with sustained patrols by SEAD aircraft armed with anti-radiation missiles poised to rapidly confront any subsequent threat that pops up. Keeping those aircraft on station for an extended period of time would be necessary, along with an unknown number of strikes. It is uncertain where the radars and missiles are located, and those airstrikes would not be without error. When search radars and especially targeting radars are turned on, the response must be instantaneous, while the radar is radiating (and therefore vulnerable) and before it can engage. That means there will be no opportunity to determine whether the sites are located in residential areas or close to public facilities such as schools or hospitals.

    Previous regimes, hoping to garner international support, have deliberately placed their systems near such facilities to force what the international media would consider an atrocity. Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi does not seem like someone who would hesitate to cause civilian casualties for political advantage. Thus, the imposition of a no-fly zone could rapidly deteriorate into condemnations for killing civilians of those enforcing the zone ostensibly for humanitarian purposes. Indeed, attacks on air defenses could cause substantial casualties, turning a humanitarian action into one of considerable consequence in both humanitarian and political terms.

    Airstrikes vs. Ground Operations

    The more important question is what exactly a no-fly zone would achieve. Certainly, it would ground Gadhafi’s air force, but it would not come close to ending the fighting nor erode Gadhafi’s other substantial advantages. His forces appear to be better organized and trained than his opponents, who are politically divided and far less organized. Not long ago, Gadhafi largely was written off, but he has more than held his own — and he has held his own through the employment of ground combat forces. What remains of his air force has been used for limited harassment, so the imposition of a no-fly zone would not change the military situation on the ground. Even with a no-fly zone, Gadhafi would still be difficult for the rebels to defeat, and Gadhafi might still defeat the rebels.

    The attractiveness of the no-fly zone in Iraq was that it provided the political illusion that steps were being taken, without creating substantial risks, or for that matter, actually doing substantial damage to Saddam Hussein’s control over Iraq. The no-fly zone remained in place for about 12 years without forcing change in Saddam’s policies, let alone regime change. The same is likely to be true in Libya. The no-fly zone is a low-risk action with little ability to change the military reality that creates an impression of decisive action. It does, as we argue, have a substantial downside, in that it entails costs and risks — including a high likelihood of at least some civilian casualties — without clear benefit or meaningful impact. The magnitude of the potential civilian toll is unknown, but its likelihood, oddly, is not in the hands of those imposing the no-fly zone, but in the hands of Gadhafi. Add to this human error and other failures inherent in war, and the outcome becomes unclear.

    A more significant action would be intervention on the ground, an invasion of Libya designed to destroy Gadhafi’s military and force regime change. This would require a substantial force — and it should be remembered from Iraq that it would require a substantial occupation force to stabilize and build a new regime to govern Libya. Unlike in Egypt, Gadhafi is the regime, and sectarian elements that have been kept in check under his regime already are coming to the fore. The ability of the country to provide and administer basic government functions is also unknown. And it must also be borne in mind that Gadhafi clearly has substantial support as well as opposition. His supporters will not go without a fight and could choose to wage some form of post-invasion resistance, as in Iraq. Thus, while the initial costs in terms of casualties might be low, the long-term costs might be much higher.

    It should also be remembered that the same international community that condemned Saddam Hussein as a brutal dictator quite easily turned to condemn the United States both for deposing him and for the steps its military took in trying to deal with the subsequent insurgency. It is not difficult to imagine a situation where there is extended Libyan resistance to the occupying force followed by international condemnation of the counterinsurgency effort.

    Having toppled a regime, it is difficult to simply leave. The idea that this would be a quick, surgical and short-term invasion is certainly one scenario, but it is neither certain nor even the most likely scenario. In the same sense, the casualties caused by the no-fly zone would be unknown. The difference is that while a no-fly zone could be terminated easily, it is unlikely that it would have any impact on ground operations. An invasion would certainly have a substantial impact but would not be terminable.

    Stopping a civil war is viable if it can be done without increasing casualties beyond what they might be if the war ran its course. The no-fly zone likely does that, without ending the civil war. If properly resourced, the invasion option could end the civil war, but it opens the door to extended low-intensity conflict.

    The National Interest

    It is difficult to perceive the U.S. national interest in Libya. The interests of some European countries, like Italy, are more substantial, but it is not clear that they are prepared to undertake the burden without the United States.

    We would argue that war as a humanitarian action should be undertaken only with the clear understanding that in the end it might cause more suffering than the civil war. It should also be undertaken with the clear understanding that the inhabitants might prove less than grateful, and the rest of the world would not applaud nearly as much as might be liked — and would be faster to condemn the occupier when things went wrong. Indeed, the recently formed opposition council based out of Benghazi — the same group that is leading the calls from eastern Libya for foreign airstrikes against Gadhafi’s air force — has explicitly warned against any military intervention involving troops on the ground.

    In the end, the use of force must have the national interest in mind. And the historical record of armed humanitarian interventions is mixed at best.

  5. Reverse Engineer says:

    Really? Mormons have Secret Rituals?

    Never underestimate cult membership.

    The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker-Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in Southern Utah. The attacks culminated on September 11, 1857 in the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by the Iron County district of the Utah Territorial Militia and some local Indians.

    The wagon train, composed almost entirely of families from Arkansas, was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory during a turbulent period later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker-Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped in the meadow, nearby militia leaders including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee made plans to attack the wagon train. Intending to give the appearance of Indian aggression, their plan was to arm some Southern Paiute Indians and persuade them to join with a larger party of militiamen, disguised as Indians, in an attack.

    During the initial assault on the wagon train, the emigrants fought back and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia’s leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men, and had probably discovered who their attackers really were. This resulted in an order by militia commander William H. Dame for the emigrants’ annihilation. Running low on water and provisions, the emigrants allowed a party of militiamen to enter their camp who assured them of their safety and escorted them out of their hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants. Intending to leave no witnesses of Mormon complicity in the attacks, and to prevent reprisals that would further complicate the Utah War, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children (totaling about 120 men, women, and children). Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.

    Following the massacre the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving their bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims’ possessions were auctioned off. Investigations, temporarily interrupted by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials Lee was convicted and executed. Today historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors including both war hysteria and strident Mormon teachings. Scholars still debate whether senior Mormon leadership, including Brigham Young, directly instigated the massacre or if responsibility lies with the local leaders of Southern Utah.

  6. Love this quote:

    “Libya has been discounted from the global markets,”



    Gadhafi forces hit oil facilities in central Libya
    (AP) – 20 minutes ago

    RAS LANOUF, Libya (AP) — Forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi struck an oil pipeline and oil storage facility Wednesday, sending a giant yellow fireball into the sky as they pounded rebels with artillery and gunfire in at least two major cities.

    Gadhafi appeared to be keeping up the momentum he has seized in recent days in his fight against rebels trying to move on the capital, Tripoli, from territory they hold in eastern Libya. State television claimed Gadhafi’s forces had retaken Zawiya, the city closest to Tripoli that had fallen into opposition hands.

    There was no was to immediately verify the claim. Gadhafi forces have been waging a heavy siege on the city since last week, and phone lines there have not been working for days. State TV showed a crowd of hundreds, purportedly in Zawiya’s main square on Wednesday, carrying images of Gadhafi and shouting “The people want Colonel Gadhafi!”

    The fall of Zawiya to anti-Gadhafi residents early on in the uprising that began Feb. 15 had illustrated the initial, blazing progress of the opposition, which has now been blunted.

    In the east, an Associated Press reporter at Ras Lanouf near the front line of fighting saw an explosion from the area of the Sidr oil facility, 360 miles (580 kilometers) east of Tripoli. Three columns of thick smoke rose from the area, apparently from burning oil.

    Mustafa Gheriani, an opposition spokesman, said the government artillery hit a pipeline supplying Sidr from oil fields in the desert. An oil storage depot also was hit, apparently by an airstrike, he said.

    Gadhafi’s successes have left Western powers struggling to come up with a plan to support the rebels without becoming ensnared in the complex and fast-moving conflict. On Wednesday, a high-ranking member of the Libyan military flew to Cairo with a message for Egyptian army officials from Gadhafi, but no further details were known.

    President Barack Obama’s most senior advisers were meeting Wednesday to outline what steps are realistic and possible to pressure Gadhafi to halt the violence and give up power.

    They planned to examine the ramifications of a no-fly zone over Libya and other potential military options, U.S. officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal administration deliberations.

    Britain and France are pushing for the U.N. to create a no-fly zone over the country, and while the U.S. may be persuaded to sign on, such a move is unlikely to win the backing of veto-wielding Security Council members Russia and China, which traditionally object to such steps as infringements on national sovereignty.

    The two sides in Libya traded barrages of artillery shells and rockets Wednesday afternoon about 12 miles (20 kilometers) west of the oil port of Ras Lanouf, an indication that regime forces were much closer than previously known to that city. Ras Lanouf is the westernmost point seized by rebels moving along the country’s main highway on the Mediterranean coast.

    Four bodies were brought to the morgue at the hospital in Ras Lanouf, doctors said.

    Warplanes streaked overhead and a yellow fireball erupted at or near the location of a small oil terminal. Pillars of black smoke also rose from the direction of the town of Bin Jawwad, about 40 miles (65 kilometers) to the west.

    In Cairo, an Egyptian army official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity that Maj. Gen. Abdul-Rahman bin Ali al-Saiid al-Zawi, the head of Libya’s logistics and supply authority, was asking to meet Egypt’s military rulers.

    There have been no public contacts between the Libyan regime and Egypt’s ruling generals since the Libyan uprising broke out on Feb. 15, and there have been no known government-related flights during that time.

    Gadhafi said in a Turkish television interview that Libyans would fight back if Western nations imposed a no-fly zone to prevent his regime from using its air force to bomb government opponents staging a rebellion.

    He said imposing the restrictions would prove the West’s real intention was to seize his country’s oil wealth.

    “Such a situation would be useful,” Gadhafi said. “The Libyan people would understand their real aims to take Libya under their control, to take their freedoms and to take their oil and all Libyan people will take up arms and fight.”

    Gadhafi spoke with Turkey’s state-run TRT Turk television late Tuesday after a surprise appearance at a hotel where foreign journalists are staying in Tripoli.

    In separate remarks, he called on Libyans in the rebel-held east of the country to take back control from the opposition leaders who have seized the territory.

    Forces loyal to the Libyan leader have been fighting rebels in the east as well as in a handful of towns close to the capital Tripoli, where he has total control.

    In the interview, Gadhafi was responding to U.S. and British plans for action against his regime, including imposing a no-fly zone to prevent Gadhafi’s warplanes from striking rebels.

    Gadhafi claimed such a move would lead Libyans to understand that the foreigners’ aim was to seize oil and take their freedom away. If that happened, he said, he “Libyans will take up arms and fight.”

    Libyan state television also broadcast remarks by Gadhafi addressing a group of youths from the town of Zintan, 75 miles (120 kilometers) southwest of Tripoli. Gadhafi again blamed al-Qaida operatives from Egypt, Algeria, Afghanistan and the Palestinian territories for the turmoil roiling his country since Feb. 15.

    State television broadcast Gadhafi’s address early on Wednesday, but did not say when the Libyan leader had spoken.

    Gadhafi has been in power since 1969, when he led a military coup that topple the monarchy.

    In the TRT Turk interview, Gadhafi said there were no legitimate grounds for a foreign intervention in his country, insisting that Libya was only fighting al-Qaida as in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

    “If al-Qaida seizes Libya, that will amount to a huge disaster,” Gadhafi said. “If they (al-Qaida fighters) take this place over, the whole region, including Israel, will be dragged into chaos. Then, (al-Qaida leader Osama) Bin Laden may seize all of north Africa that faces Europe.”

    The violence in Libya has taken a toll on the country’s oil production. For the past week, government forces and rebels have been battling around several key oil ports east — Brega, Ras Lanouf and Sidr. At their peak, those three export terminals handled about 715,000 barrels of crude per day, or roughly 45 percent of the country’s exports, according to figures published in industry publication Africa Energy. A fourth eastern port, Marsa al-Harigah, handled another 220,000 barrels per day.

    In total, those four ports would then account for almost 60 percent of the country’s crude exports.

    “We were already seeing Libya as pretty much being closed,” said Samuel Cizsuk, Mideast oil analyst with IHS Global Insight in London. “It was only a question of time before the escalating violence would damage oil facilities.”

    “Libya has been discounted from the global markets,” he said.

    Michael reported from Tripoli. Bradley Klapper and Matthew Lee in Washington, Derek Gatopoulos in Athens and Tarek El-Tablawy in Cairo contributed to this report.

  7. Hmmm…the TSA and Homeland security ought to check those guy’s rucksacks for contraband and their backpacks too ! LMAO


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