BIG BROTHER?

127 comments

Posted on 26th September 2011 by Administrator in Economy |Politics |Social Issues

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I watched this segment last night on 60 Minutes. The NYC police department has 50,000 people working for it. They can shoot down a plane. They purposely intimidate the population through displays of force that have nothing to do with any threat. The entire city is under camera surveillance. Where did they get the money to implement this kind of Big Brother city?

I believe that 60 Minutes meant this to be a positive story about the NYC police department. I had a very uneasy feeling after watching this story. The technology implemented reminds me of Orwell’s 1984. Will it be used to foil terrorists or will it be used against the citizens who disagree with the authorities?

What do you think? 

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7382308n&tag=contentBody;storyMediaBox

127 Comments
  1. Steve Hogan says:

    Bloomberg is the mayor of that cesspool known as The Big Apple. ‘Nuff said.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 51 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 3:18 pm

  2. Dave says:

    The party started to wind down in 1913. Fucking them in the dark is your only hope.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 3:24 pm

  3. KaD says:

    Can anyone name for me any technology which has been used strictly for the good of humanity? I doubt it. ‘Nuff said.

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    26th September 2011 at 4:39 pm

  4. SSS says:

    Admin asked an easy question, “Will it be used to foil terrorists or will it be used against the citizens who disagree with the authorities?”

    Answer…………..both.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 62 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:44 pm

  5. AWD says:

    Another state-sanctioned police oligarchy, searching, spying, and intruding on average people. Just what we need. The terrorists have won.

    Now I can watch T.V. shows on the internet? Damn, more ways to waste time.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 36 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:45 pm

  6. platoplubius says:

    I think we’re fucked!

    The masses will yearn for the supposed “safety” that cameras everywhere in public will bring. Until of course it is so pervasive that none dare speak out against it aloud for fear that some bureaucratically created authority will come knockin’ on their door. Those of us who already see the bigger picture, with the inevitable abuse of power that comes along with such advanced tracking technology and pervasive advertising “data mining” programs along with super mainframes that continue to be able to hold more and more information in smaller and smaller spaces, the end does not justify the means.
    The apologists for these abuses of power that will and are taking place will inevitably call them “unintended consequences” or “human nature” to explain away the negative, imho more severe, effects of this big-brother styled surveillance society where everyone is a possible terrorist and everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Bye bye maritime law and common law and Hello military law.

    A syncrhonization of laws and policies and for the past many years, economies, of many of the governments of the world is transpiring. Laws are being written and judicially interpreted tin order to systematically and “legally” place the U.S., along with many other nations, in compliance with the U.N. Declaration of Rights. Picture the U.N. as the umbrella and the nations of the world being moved closer and closer to the center of the umbrella which provides the most “protection” from the harsh elements (aka manufactured crises)

    So for those of us who do not like our “daily routine” choreographed and recorded for no other reason than “my personal safety and security” the fear mongered public will perceive are dissent as radical….then maybe radical fundamentalists? then who knows! Jihadists?? As you can tell my 30-something cynicism has kicked in; but you get my point. Not only do my destinations tell “advertisers” or “government” something about me…so do my non-destinations; where I don’t go or frequent. No thanks! I guess I’ll be one of those radical “thinkers” then….I’m sure after “truther” this is the next logical term that will be created to divide and conquer.

    I don’t mean to be so negative…but IBM will get its “Smart World” whether we average folks want it or not. This might seem like a defeatist attitude I have but I’d like to think it was more of a realist perspective. I can think of a few quick ways to get rid of cameras if it came down to it…satellites now, that is a different ballgame and way out of most of our leagues….well maybe except for the NYPD!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:55 pm

  7. ALEXISTAN says:

    Gee, I’d love to comment, but I can’t find the right words for what I want to say in New(york)speak.

    Pepper-spraying lasses on Wall Street for… peaceably assembling?

    How about the M4 rifles on the security cadres at Grand Central? What do they need a .223 battlefield round for in a crowded train station? Especially on full-auto?

    We are an occupied country now. It surprises me every year the local paper… what is it? Pravda na Hudsonu? The NYT, that’s it, publishes the Declaration of Independence. Does no one in their one-world government editorial department notice that the complaints against the occupiers still and even more egregiously obtain? We are under occupation by armor-wearing “dynamic-entry” enthusiasts. And they are backed by a massive occupation army of career bureaucrats and regulators monitoring every last bit of your life from unsaturated fats to… I’m sure… your emails. They’re sitting or standing guard all around us. Feeling safer?

    Could 2012 = 1860?

    I pray God the Oathkeepers are for real.

    Do I scent a bit of Milosevic in the call to “Put on your marching shoes”? A little revanchism a la Kosovo?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:55 pm

  8. TeresaE says:

    AWD says, “…Now I can watch T.V. shows on the internet? Damn, more ways to waste time.’

    All the better to distract you with, my dear.

    Yes, police state, yes, against citizens.

    Local cops pull out their “Disaster Response Units” to issue mobilize and issue warrants.

    The Homegrown Terrorism Act (thanks Pelosi, Frank & Bush), states exactly the myriad ways we citizens can be deemed terrorists.

    Including, “fostering public dissent against the government,” “Constitutionalism” and the like.

    So, of course it is to be used against “us.” The laws are already in place, it is just now a matter of turning up the heat.

    Us frogs are too enthralled with our bread and circuses to feel the water change en masse.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 36 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:58 pm

  9. Administrator says:

    SSS

    I’d love to get a more detailed response from you. I respect your service to the country. How do we know when we’ve gone too far? I know we need to be vigilant in protecting the country from terrorists, but when does vigilance cross the line? I watched the story with an open mind, but by the end I was shaking my head and concluding they have gone too far.

    With all this technology, a street vendor did more to foil a terrorist plot than the NYPD.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:05 pm

  10. newsjunkie says:

    As far as cameras on the street, they are generally provided and maintained by the camera manufacturer and the profits they generate are split with the city.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 5:32 pm

  11. peter says:

    remember they still have imbecilic people running the show you only need a little training to use this against them we will figure it out and the lazy cannot be helped

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:46 pm

  12. DavosSherman says:

    All that shit didn’t prevent the Twin Towers from falling or any other travesty.

    Fucking Lady Gaga morons who think it is their fucking job to nanny us, as if being nannied is a God given American right. It ain’t. It ain’t the road to freedom either.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 5:47 pm

  13. Muck About says:

    Watch the 60 minutes segment. Do not watch the “action” or centers of interest. Watch the faces and body language of the people in the background and on the peripheries of the subject matter.

    There is fear broadcast everywhere. Desensitization of the citizens so they won’t notice the hulking black guys toting grenade launchers or an effort to cow the citizens so they won’t dare take a negative position to the city wide surveillance and swat teams?

    Watch the people in the background..

    Note to self: Never ever go to New York City again..

    MA

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:56 pm

  14. JR says:

    I was just “Obamacized” from my job. I will go ANYWHERE, North Dakota, Saudi Arabia, whatever. But I’m not going to that socialist hellhole of NY.

    Ooops. I better be careful. Now that Bernanke’s monitoring eveyone’s website for “negative comments,” I’d better be careful.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 6:16 pm

  15. randy says:

    It would all be less imtimidating if the police had to obey laws as we do. At this stage, it would be easy to fear the police more than the “real” terrorists.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 6:17 pm

  16. Stucky says:

    I saw the segment. The potential for abuses is clearly there … and horrible. But …

    … you folks with Onstar or EasyPass, all your movements are tracked
    … you folks with cell phones, your whereabouts are tracked
    … you folks with debit/credit cards, your lifestyle is being tracked
    … you folks who pay by check, leave a paper trail that can be followed forever
    … you folks who order stuff off the internet, are being watched
    … you folks who don’t “clean and shred” your computer files could some day be in deep shit

    YOU are providing the feds with tons of info about you.

    I have none of these things. I am practically off the grid. Hell, the Chatham police couldn’t even find me, and the only reason they did is because my parents blabbed out my phone number. Traitors!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 6:27 pm

  17. platoplubius says:

    Great points Stucky! I would add that those who use “cloud” based programs to store shit are monitored too. All that is saved on someone’s server even after you discontinue using the service. Same with FACEBOOK…. This is why every store is creating those nuisances called “rewards cards”….for those like Stucky who are off the grid, these cards that often times you need in order to get the “special price” track everything that you buy along with how frequent you buy them regardless of your means of payment. Yes, some of these cards don’t require you to register with personal unique information, but many do and the trend would be for all to require this info at some point; probably through incentives of some sort.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 7:41 pm

  18. Smokey says:

    Administrator, Stucky et al : “Big Brother is watching you. The government is after you. The Patriot Act was created strictly to infringe on private citizens. Protect yourself against the government. Hide your assets. Bad times ahead. 1984 on the way.”

    Smokey: “You know, terrorists hit us once, maybe they’ll try again.”

    Administrator, Stucky et al: “Smokey, you fool, you’re PARANOID.You’re worried about nothing. Worried about a sovereign people on the other side of the world who only want to mind their own business. You’re worried about a bunch of terrorists with suitcase nukes out to hit all our major cities.”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8

    26th September 2011 at 8:10 pm

  19. marissa says:

    Americans just haven’t smartened up yet. They’ll get there.

    I’ve lived in two communist countries where the government [attempts to] squelch all public events and totally controls the media. They made every effort to monitor the private thoughts and acts and conversations of the people.

    But the people got smart pretty quick. They convened a thousand ways to get around the government observations and control. Everybody was in on the game: The People vs. Government. The People developed an enormous underground.

    Americans are still trusting that government represents their best interests–but that is rapidly declining. As that trust continues to deteriorate, underhanded subterfuge will spread, effectively knitting together all kinds of disparate Americans into a more collectively dissonant whole very willing to hide anything and everything from prying government sources.

    It will happen, I promise. It just takes time. We’re new at this. The Russians and the Chinese are old hands.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 9:36 pm

  20. AWD says:

    Marissa returns after a long sabbatical, no doubt studying and lurking about. Then comes up with a decent post. But what does the future hold? We will soon see….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 9:40 pm

  21. DavosSherman says:

    Well, I finished watching it.

    35,000 uniformed pigs spraying mace into protesting girls eyes (nice job champs, guess you don’t have little girls), billions in technology and a fucking hotdog-vendor is what stopped a car bomb.

    Do the math, hire more hotdog venders.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 10:09 pm

  22. platoplubius says:

    If you haven’t heard of these, “fusion centers” you are missing the bigger picture. Here is a local news station report on the one in Austin. Cold-centralized just like Stalin did! The scary thing about these fusion centers is that they act independently of one another and are governed internally. In essence they are autonomous entities that store, monitor, filter and disseminate information along with “working” with local law enforcement entitites.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPa0EDsCrCY&feature=player_embedded

    The “vampire squid” metaphor that explains Goldman Sachs and the like’s control over Wall St. and subsequently America can be used to illustrate what will happen if these fusion centers are not reigned in at the very least, disbanded if all possible.

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    26th September 2011 at 10:58 pm

  23. marissa says:

    AWD, that was just the brief overview.

    But with that convened subterfuge comes something, a word~~corruption~~that Americans are very afraid of. Because they understand just one component of how corruption works. To Amcits (a government idiom) corruption is a one way street: Big Business buys everyone. But that is inaccurate.

    Corruption also has a very bright side. As the economy worsens, government becomes more repressive, and everyone is hurting, the good side of corruption begins to emerge. The side where everyone realizes what a clusterfuck is going on the system and rule of law no longer works. That’s where corruption moves in to grease the wheels.

    Traffic violation that will cost you thousands in insurance and attorney’s fees? Erased on the spot with some $$ crossing the right palms.

    Need to get your kids into a out-of-zone school? Corruption can make it happen for a price.

    Need that job? Some bucks to the right hiring personnel and a recommendation from brother-in-law can shoo you in.

    Need a new [idiot] document a la express? Corruption will facilitate the issuance.

    Corruption is part and parcel of the People’s Underground. Learn it, decipher the nuances, know who your friends are and who needs be bought off. Your options for getting things done are multiplied. Gut perceptions and kindred connections are of the utmost value. When the rule of law breaks down and people are left to their own informal devices, instincts and contacts are the highway to survival.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 11:02 pm

  24. Terry says:

    @ALEXISTAN – “I pray God the Oathkeepers are for real.”

    They are very real. They’re compromised, but they expected it and are fully aware of it. Yes, I know some of them – believe me, they are serious …deadly serious. When the time comes, you will know they are there. I wish there were more of them, but you’ve got to go with what you’ve got sometimes.

    You’ll know the impact they are having when you see them labeled as terrorists, etc., by the media – including Fox. In fact, maybe especially Fox.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 11:14 pm

  25. SSS says:

    Admin

    Ah, you had to go and ask me tough questions. Ok, here goes, with your questions in quotes.

    “How do we know when we’ve gone too far?” When we get crippled people out of their wheelchairs and start making little girls cry at airport security checkpoints. Ooops, we’ve already gone too far.

    “I know we need to be vigilant in protecting the country from terrorists, but when does vigilance cross the line?” Again, we have already crossed the line. Here’s some practical solutions to both maintaining public safety and liberty in this country.

    1. Except for international travel and commerce, disband the TSA.

    2. Turn INTRAnational airport, bus, rail, port, and subway terminal security over to state and local authorities. Let them decide what is or is not necessary for safe travel or safe commerce within this country.

    The federal appoach of “one size fits all” is stupid and expensive. State and local authorities know better than the feds what’s going on in their backyards. If NYC, as in the 60 Minutes segment, wants to establish a lockdown, surveillance policy on their city, it’s their call. But NYC or the state of New York pays for most of it, not the federal taxpayers.

    I am well aware that my views butt up against legal precedent on interstate commerce law, where the federal government CAN legally stick its fat snoot into everything, but you have to remember one key point. The federal government doesn’t HAVE to get involved. It can, as the saying goes, “sit this one out.”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 11:20 pm

  26. newsjunkie says:

    Petition to abolish the TSA:

    https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/abolish-tsa-and-use-its-monstrous-budget-fund-more-sophisticated-less-intrusive-counter-terrorism/c7L94bFB

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 11:38 pm

  27. Jackson says:

    Unless you live here you cannot understnad what the city is dealing with. Kelly has done an exceptional job in handling the isues that confront us on a daily basis. As the largest city in the country and a metro area approaching 13 million people the police force as a percentage of the populaiton is quite small. Large cities bring large crime…as was the case befoir he became police chief. Ask Seattle what is was like in terms of street crime during the G-8 meeting several years ago when supposed “peaceful demonstrations” turned into riots and mass destruction. .NY City under Kelly has seen crime go down and neighborhoods taken back from drug gangs so local people can live their lives in peace.

    We stil have armed national guard soldiers in major public places and yes we do step up the level of alert as warrented by international events. Terror cells operate here and thankfully hhey have been stopped to date. Ray Kelly is first class and has built a very profesional organization.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 13

    26th September 2011 at 11:42 pm

  28. TeresaE says:

    Smokey says, “…Administrator, Stucky et al: “Smokey, you fool, you’re PARANOID.You’re worried about nothing. Worried about a sovereign people on the other side of the world who only want to mind their own business. You’re worried about a bunch of terrorists with suitcase nukes out to hit all our major cities…”

    Ok, I disagree with your “neo-con” stance when it comes to military might. I mainly disagree with it because I believe(d) in our founders and many of them warned us against foreign dalliances.

    But, you won’t catch me slamming you because I understand fear, and the need to feel like you are doing something to stop the horror. I believed the same freaking thing too, once upon a time.

    What I finally realized was that we can completely close our borders and put up gulag lights, we can imprison everyone that says the secret word, or uncovers government secrets, or smokes pot, we can bomb the living shit out of the Mideast, detain and terrorize innocent passengers/citizens and shoot to kill old men whittling with a fucking knife….

    but we will NEVER, and I mean NEVER be able to stop crazy. Thousands of years of societal laws, up to and including death, hasn’t stopped crazy. Amazing we think that we will magically win against the mental by spending more, killing more, or violating the law-abiding’s civil and property rights.

    Ben Franklin was one smart mofo and he spelled it out for us. Those that trade freedom for security deserve neither. Nor shall they have them.

    With great benefits come great costs. And I, for one, fully accept the cost of NOT destroying the Constitution.

    We were once the greatest country on earth (greatest of a whole shitload of flawed, including us) because of our Constitution.

    What most have forgotten was the Constitution was written FOR times like these. What good are a set of guiding principles if we throw them out the minute the going gets tough, or not to TPTB’s liking? Especially when we have chosen to ignore the ‘keeping our ass home’ principle and have been killing Muslims in their own homes for decades, if not centuries.

    You are such a bright guy. I’m already a huge chunk into “I am That” and your depth and knowledge levels about tons of different shit continuously astound and amaze me. Recently I’ve been reading Vonnegut and N. Marajah must have been an influence for his Tralmafadorians(sp?), how cool is that? and thank you for the heads up.

    You know I find myself agreeing with you a ton more than I disagree and then *bam* out of your keys comes this shit.

    Ah well. So it goes.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 11:58 pm

  29. AKAnon says:

    I can’t wait to see the Ray Kelly Story on the big screen. Harvey Keitel will play the lead, natch. I must say, I respect Kelly’s “git ‘er done” and “I’m in charge” attitude. I just what he was getting done was Constitutional.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 12:55 am

  30. Novista says:

    Army to cut nearly 50,000 soldiers over 5 years

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/09/army-to-cut-nearly-50000-soldiers-over-5-years-092511/

    … leaving the service with 520,400 active-duty soldiers on Sept. 30, 2016.

    Not long ago, Stratfor stated there were about one million military in the U.S. and around half that in foreign postings. Obviously combined service personnel.

    Maybe Big Brother will have his work cut out if martial law descends — 310 million population, may with more firepower than Mayberry PD. Still, they have various technotoys, like the following link speaks of, that the Israelis used, tax dollars in action, yeh?

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-09/26/israel-sonic-gun

    And there’s the Active Denial System, aka portable big ‘microwave oven’ and likely other Secret things we know not of. The good news is, there are a lot of propeller heads out there, guerilla geeks, as it were.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 8:55 am

  31. T John Avatarici says:

    Buy stock in surveillance cameras as many more will be needed.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 9:32 am

  32. Smokey says:

    TeresaE,

    I’m not sure you or I know exactly what was in the Founding Fathers minds when they wrote the Constitution. In fact, had they seen this far ahead, into today’s world, I’m not sure a single line in the Constitution would be as it is.

    You would probably agree that they did not contemplate the world getting “smaller” because, two hundred years after their death, tens of thousands of people every single day would fly through the air, inside metal tubes, to thousands of civilized cities across the globe. Hell, the Constitution was written before automobiles and telephones were invented.

    And you will likely concede that the founding fathers probably did not anticipate the extent to which global trade would evolve due to technology and travel.

    Do you actually believe they would have “warned us against global dalliances” if they had even the vaguest notion of the eventual interrelatedness of the planet, due to communication and travel ?

    Here is what you and many others choose to ignore. Global alliances are a fact. They will be a fact of life for the next fifty millenia. The alliances were established for good reasons, trade being primary. And don’t kid yourself, without global trade, the US would immediately go straight to it’s knees and stay there for at least a century.

    It is SO FUCKING EASY to say, as many do, to close all the bases and bring the troops home and quit policing the world.

    In the first place, the US is not POLICING THE WORLD. Are we in Australia? Central America? South America? Europe ? Greenland? China? No. We are in the most unstable region of the world, which also happens to have the most important natural resource in the world.

    If we bust our alliance with Saudi Arabia tomorrow and bring our troops home, how long do you think it takes for that country and its oil to fall into unfriendly hands? You could count the time on a fucking egg timer.

    We yank our troops out of the entire region, how long before Iran closes the Straits of Hormuz ? Not years, MONTHS.

    I am not saying we are in the region to take some other nation’s oil. I AM saying we are in countries abroad to maintain and protect our strategic alliances, which include trade.

    People whine because we whacked Hussein. Perhaps we should have left him alone. Perhaps when he massed troops on Kuwait’s border we should have ignored him and let him take Kuwait and their oil. And then, when he went after Saudi Arabia, which was most definitely next on his agenda, we could have watched that too. After all, the mass murderer wasn’t bothering us.

    Teresa, since we can never stop crazy, why not abandon all laws? What’s the point? Crazy is going to happen anyway. I mean, according to you, preventing or discouraging crazy is an UTTER IMPOSSIBILITY. Fuck, why have ANY police?

    “but we will NEVER and I mean NEVER be able to stop crazy.” Your words.

    See. that’s the thing where all this shit always breaks down. The MEANS necessary to deal with crazy. I happen to believe crazy CAN and HAS been discouraged countless times by our military and by our police. Many, perhaps most of the times, we are never made aware of. The very act of discouraging crazy is what keeps us a democracy instead of an anarchy.

    I believe that in today’s world there is ALWAYS a trade off between the free will of the citizens of a country and the sovereignty of that same country. I mean, a case could be made that stopping at a stoplight is an infringement of individual rights. And a damn good case could be made that being forced to wear a seatbelt is a violation of individual rights.

    But I accept those infringements because I know that we have elected people to deal with those things. I am always aware of many things I disagree with, but again, for me, it ALWAYS involves a trade off.

    Reasonable people can and probably always will disagree about this stuff.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5

    26th September 2011 at 11:23 am

  33. DavosSherman says:

    Jesus Christ: The US occupies or has troops in 156 out of 198 countries. That IS a fucking EMPIRE. We ARE the world’s police force – and we do it for “free”.

    There are 535 fucking morons (save for a few Ron Pauls) who don’t know what the Constitution says. Don’t make it harder on yourself than it is.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 11:46 am

  34. Stucky says:

    ” … since we can never stop crazy, why not abandon all laws?” — Smokey

    Wow. Talk about taking a point to the extreme.

    On the other hand, you seem to believe that we can stop crazy. So, why don’t we pass 1,362,587 more laws? Yeah. That’ll do the trick.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 11:56 am

  35. .44 mag says:

    MUST READ: “The Black Arrow: A Tale of the Resistance” by Vin Suprynowicz

    This book is fabulous. It’s about the oppressed people of NYC in the late 2020′s and the resistance movement that has developed. Most folks on this site will love it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 11:57 am

  36. Stucky says:

    “In the first place, the US is not POLICING THE WORLD. Are we in Australia? Central America? South America? Europe ?” — Smokey

    I’m fairly certain we have troops and bases in Germany, England, Italy.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 11:58 am

  37. Smokey says:

    DavosSherman and Stuck,

    Try to get your minds around this. Struggle with it. Perhaps spend a few months on it.

    With much effort and a lot of help, you may come to realize that having embassies abroad does not equal POLICING the world. BTW, have we been POLICING the world since WWI, since we’ve had troops abroad that long?

    I’ve only heard whining about POLICING the world for the past few years.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    26th September 2011 at 12:34 pm

  38. Administrator says:

    Smokey – MASTER OF THE STRAWMAN ARGUMENT.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 12:40 pm

  39. Smokey says:

    You people keep grasping for Savior Ron Paul. You might as well hope for Peter Rabbit to come forth and save the world.

    Ron Paul is a nonstarter. Make peace with that.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7

    26th September 2011 at 12:40 pm

  40. Smokey says:

    Stuck,

    Quit trying to help Teresa. You just look like a fool. The Ron Paul supporters on this site can barely hold their own with me. With you intervening on their behalf, it automatically throws the debate to me.

    Tell you what. Take a seat on the sidelines and copy every word fro every post I make for the next year and memorize it. Learn it. THEN come back and have another go at me.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

    26th September 2011 at 12:47 pm

  41. Smokey says:

    Since we have troops in Germany, England and Italy then it logically follows that we are POLICING those countries. (according to the RP disciples)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    26th September 2011 at 12:50 pm

  42. platoplubius says:

    @ Smokey

    “Since we have troops in Germany, England and Italy then it logically follows that we are POLICING those countries. (according to the RP disciples)”

    Nope, just creating “spheres of influence” in those regions. All part of empire building and maintenance.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 12:57 pm

  43. Smokey says:

    platoplubius,

    Quit trying to be relevant. You will always fall far short.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    26th September 2011 at 1:04 pm

  44. Colma Rising says:

    When I’m saggin’ in New York, I like to grab my balls and wave at the cameras with a hand glistening with fromunda….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 1:09 pm

  45. Stucky says:

    Smokey

    1) I kinda love Teresa. So fuck off.

    2) I intervene for no one. I make my own decisions. Once in a while I suck up to Admin in a most unbecoming manner. THAT pays big dividends. Try it sometime.

    3) I have been a RP supporter for a decade. There is no guile with this man.

    4) You lost significant credibility on this issue when you said there were no troops in Europe.

    5) You don’t wanna fuck with ME … a soon-to-be lean mean fighting machine.

    6) You are still a Big Dog here. I respect that.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:09 pm

  46. platoplubius says:

    @ Smokey,

    But…but…I am relevant Smokey! I am! Perhaps not to you, but most assuredly I am relevant. Don’t get your tighty whities with a picture of Dick Cheney on the hiney in a bunch! and stop trying to justify our Empire’s incessant nose butting in other’s affairs. It has nothing to do with the governments of the world and everything to do with the mega corporations using the governments for their own agenda; be it oil, copper, opium, whatever.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:11 pm

  47. Stucky says:

    Smokey — Read this … and cry me a river.

    =======================================

    “Run, Chris, run? … Will he or won’t he? New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, that is, who suddenly finds himself under pressure from across the Republican Party to enter the presidential race. That’s a prospect Christie himself has been exceedingly reluctant to embrace. So far. But some of the party’s top leaders and most influential figures — clearly troubled by the failure of anyone in the current field to stir broad, enthusiastic support — are pressing Christie, whom they believe can successfully lead the party against an increasingly vulnerable President Obama. We agree.”
    ——– NY Post

    Dominant Social Theme: The current field of Republican candidates is unelectable. Ron Paul, especially so. We need a real candidate. A heavyweight. Chris Christie is our man.

    Free-Market Analysis: As we expected, Republican front-runner and Texas Governor Rick Perry is starting to see his campaign implode. That’s what happens when you spend most of your political career as a big-spending globalist and then try to run as a small-government conservative. Once upon a time, you could get away with that sort of thing because the mainstream media would cover you – if you were someone the elites had an interest in backing.

    But even with apparent support of American “king-makers,” Rick Perry’s campaign is fast-diminishing into also-ran status. The Internet remembers or, in many cases, doesn’t forget. Between what’s on the ‘Net and stinging comments from others in the race for the presidential nomination, Perry is looking considerably battered and bruised.

    Which is giving the Anglosphere power elite fits. It seems that they are just as opposed to libertarian Congressman Ron Paul as they were last time round. Then, Ron Paul didn’t have much of a chance, BUT TODAY HE CERTAINLY DOES. IN FACT, RIGHT NOW THERE’S ALMOST NO ONE ELSE. Paul runs well against Barack Obama and the party faithful are as unenthused with “front runner” Mitt Romney as they are with Rick Perry.

    Ineluctably, Ron Paul is emerging as the candidate to beat, the front-runner if you will. And that has sent the top Republican brass scurrying all the way to New Jersey where they have prostrated themselves in front of tart-tongued conservative Chris Christie. The governor of New Jersey has made a name for himself as a no-nonsense, grown-up conservative. He can’t see Russia from his house (like Sarah Palin) and he’s not born again (like Michele Bachmann). He doesn’t have a liberal record to run against and, unlike Mitt Romney, he never passed a kinda/sorta version of Obamacare.

    But the trouble is Chris Christie doesn’t seem very happy about running for president, though the nomination might be his for the taking. This only means one thing: He’s got something in his background that he’s worried about, something that might be revealed on the national stage. He’s been saying “no” now for a number of months.

    If he does say “yes,” there will be an audible sigh of relief from Republican bigwigs. But if he doesn’t run, Ron Paul becomes a logical front-runner. This is a terrible possibility for Republicans who like to pretend they are small-government minded and cost conscious but never saw a military item – or even a war – that they couldn’t find something in the budget for.

    With Perry’s self-immolation (his debate appearances are worse and worse), Ron Paul takes another step toward a nomination that has been declared off-limits to him countless times. In fact, even though polls show Ron Paul neck-and-neck with Obama, or even beating him, the top Republican brass would likely forego winning the presidency rather than acquiesce to Ron Paul as the Republican candidate for president. That’s how it looks now, anyway.

    Let’s see what Chris Christie says. The race is heating up, not predictably but in the most peculiar ways …

    .
    http://thedailybell.com/3002/DB-Briefs-Economist-Mag-Makes-Up-New-China-Term-Avoiding-Ron-Paul-Desperate-Republicans-Turn-to-Chris-Christie-Indian-Gov-Says-Poor-Can-Live-on-Half-Dollar-a-Day

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:13 pm

  48. Stucky says:

    I expect 100+ Thumbs up for the above post from you RP fans.

    And one Thumbs Down from Smokey.

    So be it.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:17 pm

  49. DavosSherman says:

    Smokey’s definition of a fucking “embassy”.

    us-military-bases-around-the-world.jpg

    country-distribution-2008.png

    AIR_F-16A_Pakistan_Bombing_lg.jpg

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:23 pm

  50. DavosSherman says:

    Jesus Christ Smokey, I thought you were a cool fucking dude, I’m beginning to believe you’re a government plant.

    Embassies. Let me print that out and go wipe my ass with that.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:24 pm

  51. ALEXISTAN says:

    Encouraging words, Terry! I thank, and salute, you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 1:27 pm

  52. Stucky says:

    FACTS !!! DATA !!! LOGIC !!! PROOF !!!

    With one fell swoop, Davos hits it out of the ballpark.
    0060-0807-1215-1128_A_Home_Run_Hit_Out_of_the_Park_clipart_image.jpg

    This reducing Smokey to a heaping pile of tears.
    3D_Man_Crying_Over_a_Broken_Laptop_Royalty_Free_Clipart_Picture_100322-235380-185009.jpg

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 1:29 pm

  53. Stucky says:

    Reason #429 why Ron Paul is awesome.

    How can you NOT love this guy??

    ======================================================= =

    Palestinian State?
    Tuesday, September 27, 2011
    by Ron Paul

    .
    The Palestinian Authority’s recent announcement that it would seek UN recognition as an independent state dominated the news and the political debate in the United States last week, though in truth it should mean very little to us. Only a political class harboring the illusion it can run the world obsesses over the aspirations of a tiny population on a tiny piece of land thousands of miles away. Remember, the UN initiated this persistent conflict with its 1947 Partition Plan.

    Unfortunately the debate is dominated by those who either support the Israeli side in the conflict, or those who support the Palestinian desire for statehood. We rarely seem to hear the view of those who support the US side and US interests. I am on that side. I believe that we can no longer police the world. We can no longer bribe the Israelis and Palestinians to continue an endless “peace process” that goes nowhere. It is not in our interest to hector the Palestinians or the Israelis, or to “export” democracy to the region but reject it when people vote the “wrong” way.

    I have reservations about the Palestinian drive for UN recognition. Personally I wish the United States would de-recognize the United Nations. As most readers already know, in every Congress I introduce legislation to end our membership in that organization. The UN is a threat to our sovereignty– and as we are the main source of its income, it is a threat to our economic well-being. Increasingly over the past several years, we see the United Nations providing political and legal cover for the military aspirations of interventionists rather than serving as an international forum to preserve peace. Neoconservatives in the US have grown to love the United Nations as they co-opt the organization under the guise of endless “reform.” Under the sovereignty-destroying doctrine of “Responsibility to Protect,” adopted at the 2005 World Summit, the UN takes it upon itself to intervene in internal conflicts of its member states whenever it believes that human rights are being violated. Thus under “Responsibility to Protect,” the UN provides the green light for a kind of global no-knock raid on any sovereign country.

    If asked, I would personally counsel the Palestinians to avoid the United Nations. UN membership and participation is no guarantee that sovereignty will be respected. We see what happens to UN members such as Iraq and Libya when those countries’ leaders fall out of favor with US administrations: under US and allied pressure a fig leaf resolution is adopted in the UN to facilitate devastating military intervention. When the UN gave NATO the green light to bomb Libya there was no genocide taking place. It was a purely preventative war. The result? Thousands dead, a destroyed country, and extremely dubious new leaders.

    While I do not see UN membership as a particularly productive move for the Palestinian leadership, I do not believe the US should use its position in the UN Security Council to block their membership. I believe in self-determination of peoples and I recognize that peoples may wish to pursue statehood by different means. As we saw after the Cold War, numerous new states were born out of the ruins of the USSR as the various old Soviet Republics decided that smaller states were preferable to an enormous and oppressive multi-national conglomerate.

    The real, pro-US solution to the problems in the Middle East is for us to end all foreign aid, stop arming foreign countries, encourage peaceful diplomatic resolutions to conflicts, and disengage militarily. In others words, follow Jefferson’s admonition: “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 1:42 pm

  54. illuminoughtu says:

    America has PTSD. Seriously. America meets all criteria for PTSD.

    The essential feature of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder is the development of characteristic symptoms following exposure to an extreme traumatic stressor involving direct personal experience of an event that involves actual or threatened death or serious injury, or other threat to one’s physical integrity; or witnessing an event that involves death, injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of another person; or learning about unexpected or violent death, serious harm, or threat of death or injury experienced by a family member or other close associate (Criterion A1).

    The person’s response to the event must involve intense fear, helplessness, or horror (or in children, the response must involve disorganized or agitated behavior) (Criterion A2).

    The characteristic symptoms resulting from the exposure to the extreme trauma include persistent reexperiencing of the traumatic event (Criterion B),

    persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (Criterion C),

    and persistent symptoms of increased arousal (Criterion D).

    The full symptom picture must be present for more than 1 month (Criterion E),

    and the disturbance must cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (Criterion F).

    America needs to seek professional help for this debilitation disease.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 2:19 pm

  55. Stucky says:

    More Police State madness.

    Some fucking POS government parasites are going door to door trying to intimidate non-vaccinated students into taking some “mandatory” vaccine.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 2:25 pm

  56. Administrator says:

    Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

    Look What I Got For Three Hours, Six Security Checkpoints, And $82…

    If you’ve followed this letter for any length of time, you know that I
    tend to roam around the world with great frequency; we’ll typically
    have these conversations across 40 to 60 countries in 6 continents over a
    year’s time.

    Lots of international travel means lots of silly stamps, seals, and
    stickers to fill up the visa pages in my passports. Even though I have
    multiple passports, they tend to fill up within 18-months or so given my
    travel schedule.

    My current US passport, for example, was issued last February while I
    was in Thailand. By late summer, there was barely a single square inch
    of space remaining, so today I had the unfortunate displeasure of
    heading down to the US consulate in Cape Town to have them insert more
    pages.

    Each time I’m forced to demean myself in this way– sitting around
    those sterile government waiting rooms and filling out useless paperwork
    only to justify the salary of some bureaucrat– I have plenty of time to
    reflect on the nature of this system.

    You see, for hundreds, even thousands of years, people moved about
    the earth without any bureaucracy whatsoever. Just like the African
    elephants I encountered last week who roam freely between Botswana,
    Zambia, and DR Congo, people too used to travel freely without worrying
    too much about invisible lines on a map.

    Even up until World War I when boundaries between empires were
    clearly defined, people could still cross borders without the need of a
    passport.

    After the war, some do-gooders at the League of Nations decided that
    we couldn’t have all those people traveling freely without government
    intervention… so they sponsored a series of conferences aimed at
    designing an international travel document, and worked to establish
    global border checkpoint protocols that required having one.

    Of course, all of this bureaucracy is dressed up to make it sound
    like it’s for our protection. On the first page of my US passport, for
    instance, it says:

    “The Secretary of State of the United States of America hereby
    requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national of the
    United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in
    case of need to give all lawful aid and protection.”

    Sounds nice enough, right? It sure is great to know the government has our back to make sure we’re safe and sound.

    What a total farce. The passport isn’t about the State Department
    ‘protecting’ us anymore than Homeland Security fondling 4-year old girls
    at the airport. It’s about control.

    Why else would they implant RFID chips inside passports, or require
    biometric data like fingerprints and iris scans? These are all things
    that have significant costs… but absolutely zero benefit to taxpayers.

    What’s more, these days you can’t even leave most countries unless
    you have a passport… ergo you’re forced to APPLY to the government and
    give them a host of personal and biometric data just to be able to leave
    the country when you want. Land of the free?

    Oh, and speaking of free, it ain’t. I’ve had fresh pages inserted
    into my passports so many times, I keep watchful eye on the
    ever-increasing cost of doing so. Just over 2-years ago, it cost me
    nothing at the consulate in Panama. Last year, around $40. Today in
    Cape Town? $82.

    Needless to say, this is pretty significant price inflation from a
    government that pretends inflation doesn’t exist. And I’m pretty sure
    everyone on the planet can think of better ways to spend three hours and
    82 bucks than on furthering a pointless bureaucracy.

    And so… after negotiating the -six- security checkpoints at the
    consulate, I walked out of there with a fatter passport and a thinner
    wallet, no better than when I had walked in.

    This is all a slippery slope… and under the pretext of ‘jobs’ or
    ‘security’ or a number of other unrelated reasons, it’s likely that the
    grip will tigthen. This means higher prices, higher hurdles, more data,
    and more bureaucracy.

    Imagine not being able to receive a passport until you obtain police clearance. Or perhaps a certificate of tax compliance. Or a DNA sample that ties in with your government medical record. Or simply paying an exorbitant fee.

    Nothing is out of bounds for these people.

    Ironically, one way that I’ve mitigated the constant encroachment on
    my freedom is by obtaining multiple citizenships. Frankly I wish I could
    have zero, but it’s nearly impossible to be stateless today.

    Rather, having multiple citizenships keeps your options open. You can
    always ‘opt out’ if/when I reach my breaking point… but before you can
    do that, you have to at least have one alternative.

    It’s not as hard or far-fetched as it seems; many people qualify for
    dual nationality without even realizing it thanks to a distant relative
    or marriage. We’ll talk about how to do that in a future letter. Stay
    tuned.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 2:54 pm

  57. AWD says:

    Great thread.

    Since the Feds are listening in, and information is being forwarded up the food chain and chain of command, and everyone is being assigned a threat number and color, I leave it to the commander in chief to applaud your attempt at liberty, free speech, and freedom. He’s clapping because you have escaped so far, but not for long.

    th_clapping-obama-149_bigger.gif

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 3:10 pm

  58. Smokey says:

    Stuck,

    Please read for comprehension. I did not say that there not troops were in Europe. I said the US is not POLICING the world—-and followed that by asking if the US is in Australia, Central America, China, Europe, Greenland.

    I’ll be glad to recommend a good reading comprehension course if you like.

    I get along fine with Teresa. We just happen to disagree here. So fuck off.

    The Ron Paul league of curs love to sit back and criticize everything and everyone who does not buy their worldview.

    You people love to bitch about how we must close Guantanamo because our soldiers TORTURE prisoners. A fucking lie, of course you know that, unless you call occasional waterboarding torture—LOL.

    So, what do we do with the prisoners, geniuses? Put them in American prisons? That’s fucking brilliant. Try them with the rights of American citizens, where many of the cases will be taken pro bono by the ACLU and with a little luck they’ll get an OJ type jury. The detainees cases will cost BILLIONS in taxpayer money and will be dragged out for decades.

    Or do we release the prisoners to their own countries? Remember, we have already done this and caught the very same former prisoners again on the field of battle killing Americans.

    See, you people have breathtakingly ignorant short term solutions to everything. “Close the bases, bring all troops home immediately.” Are you really that stupid to be unaware of the holocaust that would ignite? How our trade across the globe with hundreds of allies would immediately stop cold and how that would precipitate economic catastrophe in this country? Are you really that fucking stupid?

    Do you not think Obama had every intention of shutting Guantanamo? Until he arrived on the scene and people who know better explained to him that this country would be mired in shit as far as the eye can see if he were to do something that fucking stupid.

    I realize I am outnumbered probably at least twenty to one on this board. That’s okay. While I could not give less of a shit where my thinking lines up with mainstream America, the fact is that I fall center-right.

    The Libertarians are the minority in this country. It may serve you to ponder why that is so. Ron Paul has some good ideas that have spurred debate in some areas. But please don’t delude yourselves into thinking his candidacy will be taken seriously.

    Ron Paul has the personality of a dead mackerel.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 3:11 pm

  59. Smokey says:

    Davos,

    You print a map showing USA worldwide military involvement.

    I am going to make the enormous, gargantuan, giant, huge, colossal assumption that Australia and Canada are EXTREMELY happy to have us there as guests.

    Fuck, take out Australia, Canada and the USA including Alaska and voila— the countries we have military bases in damn near disappear.

    Feel free to wipe your ass with your maps.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    26th September 2011 at 3:16 pm

  60. DavosSherman says:

    You’re math challenged. 156 out of 198 countries is about an 80% occupation rate.

    You’re delusional – carpet bombing and bases are NOT fucking embassy’s.

    Now, to defend your “logic” your rattling off reasons on why countries want us to be there, which never was in this debate.

    Believe in whatever the fuck you want – it is America. I’m believing that we are an empire and that we do police the world.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 3:23 pm

  61. Smokey says:

    Davos,

    Look at the fucking map. It is color coded.

    JFC, how hard can it be to comprehend something that simle.

    It’s YOUR map.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 3:25 pm

  62. Smokey says:

    simple

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 3:25 pm

  63. Smokey says:

    Davos,

    I agree. It is America. If you want to believe in leprechauns and pixie dust, have at it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 3:26 pm

  64. Administrator says:

    3 days left for the “imminent” terrorist attack on our great country by the Muslim extremists that are hiding behind every bush. We will not be safe until there is a surveillance camera on every street corner in this great country. We need to quadruple the hiring of police across our great country in order to protect us from every possible threat, real or imagined, that could occur at any moment unless we are ceaselessly vigilant. All hail those great patriots Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and their brilliant strategy to take the fight to the terrorists. Cost is no object. $1 trillion, $2 trillion, $3 trillion, $10 quadrillion. Whatever it takes to make us safe. Fuck liberty and freedom. Who needs it? As long as there is a thug on the corner of my street protecting me from the terrorists, I’ll sacrifice a little liberty.

    Smokey for President in 2012

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 3:27 pm

  65. Cynical30 says:

    If some rich asshat offered to pay me an exorbitant amount of rent to build a fort in my second shitter I probably wouldn’t fly a Cessna into his office, regardless of the fact that I often pray to the porcelain goddess after my holy activity of binge drinking. Maybe it’s because I’m just not as sensitive to it as the whole Mecca, infidels, LALALALALALA jihad thing.

    That being said, we are not a stabilizing force in any of the turbulent parts of the world. We are a scapegoat for indigenous failures and a target. Plus we just can’t afford to pretend we run the world anymore.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 3:31 pm

  66. Smokey says:

    Cynical30,

    Get your ass out of here. I have my hands full already.

    Come back on a thread we agree on.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

    26th September 2011 at 3:35 pm

  67. Cynical30 says:

    HAHAHAHAHA! I’ll meet you on the next 30 blocks Smokey. Keep jihadding for that empire!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 3:38 pm

  68. Colma Rising says:

    When I’m sagiin’ in NY, I like to do an MC Hammer jig in front of a camera with one hand on my dick and the other holding a hot-dog from a vigilant vendor like I’m raising the roof.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 3:43 pm

  69. Colma Rising says:

    I meant saggin’.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 3:45 pm

  70. Stucky says:

    Smoke My Pole

    Okey Dokey. We have about 100,000 troops in Europe — with big guns, big tanks, big planes, and big dicks. They are not policing anything. They are in England for fish and chips, in Germany for Bratwurst and beer, and in Italy for whatever pussy Berlusconi didn’t fuck. Got it.

    What the fuck are you bringing up Guantanamo for? Because your other arguments are in the shitter? Who said anything about Guantanamo?

    Look at Davos’ map. LOOK at it!! See the light pink countries … it’s the color of your underpants …. there are 156 of them ….. we have troops in those 156 countries. So tell me, you Fucking Genius .. suppose we pull out out troops from Botswana … how will that start a holocaust? hmmm?

    I certainly never said pull the US out of every country!! You and your starw man bullshit. Take your own damn Reading For Comprehension course. Of course we need to be in a few countries. Canada for one. Someday we’ll need to steal their resources. Pllus, Canadians generally piss me off. But trust me, we can get out of Botswana … and the other 155 pink countries … you fucken pinko bastard.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:05 pm

  71. SSS says:

    DavosSherman

    Get an up-to-date map, not that 2002 crap you posted. For example, the map shows we have a military base in Ecuador. Wrong. Ecuadoran President Correa shut down the U.S. presence in Manta, Ecuador in 2009. Two years ago!!!

    Now everyone else listen up, because I’m just gonna say this 10 more times. Tops.

    Look at the pink-colored countries with U.S. “troops” on the map Davos posted. They include countries like Russia, China, Nepal, and Burma. Do you really think we have “troops” in those countries? Are you kidding me? Fucking China and Burma giving us permission to post “troops” in their countries? Get real.

    No, those are U.S. military attaches who have been posted there with the PERMISSION of the host countries. Those host countries have given our military officers PERMISSION to contact and socialize with their military officers. And overtly gather information on the host countries’ armed forces. And the USG has a reciprocal agreement for those countries to post military attaches here in the U.S.

    Those U.S. officers are part of a global Defense Attache system, a system that was started by France in the 19th Century. They are not “troops” by any classical definition of the term. So that “U.S. troops in 156 countries” is a ton of bullshit.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4

    26th September 2011 at 4:08 pm

  72. SSS says:

    Stucky

    I think you may have just opened mouth and inserted foot.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:20 pm

  73. AWD says:

    You brawlers are forgeting one of my favorite parts of the world: ASIA

    Korea:
    Active 1954–present
    Country United States
    Allegiance UNC (Korea)
    Type Combined Arms
    Size 28,500 personnel
    Garrison/HQ Yongsan Garrison, Seoul, Korea

    Japan:
    As of December 2009, there are 35,688 U.S. military personnel stationed in Japan and another 5,500 American civilians employed there by the United States Department of Defense. The United States Seventh Fleet is based in Yokosuka. The 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force (III MEF) is based in Okinawa. 130 USAF fighters are stationed in the Misawa Air Base and Kadena Air Base.

    Total: 64,199 just in Korea/Japan, not including the Philippines. That’s one helluva lot of troops not engaged in war (unless you count N. Korea as another “cold war’)

    More than half the number of troops in Iraq/Afghanistan.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:22 pm

  74. Smokey says:

    SSS,

    Goddamn, whatever you do do NOT reveal facts on this forum, ESPECIALLY when it renders Davos’s post UTTER SHIT, and likewise Stuck’s ignorant rants.

    Do NOT expose the reeking contaminated fucking SHIT that they choose as their sacred beliefs.

    Davos and Stuck–a word to the wise—Do NOT get in a pissing match with SSS on this shit. He knows this shit cold and can world-class pack your shit with reasoning and facts.

    Stuck—-you claim you have never said close all the bases. Maybe you haven’t. But MANY of the people on this forum have said repeatedly to shut em all and bring ALL of the troops home.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 4:23 pm

  75. Anonymous says:

    SSS,

    In your opinion, what overseas prescence is neccesary to guarantee our national interests ?
    (Active Military or Covert) ?

    Here’s looking forward to Smokey’s weekly football picks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 4:35 pm

  76. Smokey says:

    SSS,

    Re—Stuck may have inserted foot into mouth.

    In for a penny, in for a pound.

    This is a friendly debate. Nothing personal.

    You laid it out there—Now BURY HIM!!!!!!! Bust his ass.

    I’m tired of running solo here.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:38 pm

  77. Administrator says:

    Smokey

    We need to bring ALL the troops home to protect you from the imminent terrorist attacks that will be imminent any time now imminently.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:39 pm

  78. Administrator says:

    AWD

    Don’t be providing facts and figures to Smokey. Neo-cons go ballistic when presented with facts. They prefer fantasy storylines, pictures of mushroom clouds, meetings between Atta and Hussein in foreign countries and WMD hidden everywhere.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:41 pm

  79. Smokey says:

    Don’t count your chickens yet. We still have 3 1/2 more days.

    That’s 3 1/2 more seasons of 24 and my HERO, Jack Bauer.

    Of course you wouldn’t know of him.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    26th September 2011 at 4:43 pm

  80. Anonymous says:

    Is this about winning an argument or seeking the truth – which is admitedly subjective.

    Smokey, how do you get internet service in the bunker ? Just Curious.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:43 pm

  81. Administrator says:

    Never watched that drivel. I prefer Dancing With the Stars and American Idol.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:44 pm

  82. DavosSherman says:

    Well, I found out where Dick Cheney spends his time lurking and whose handle he uses.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 4:51 pm

  83. Administrator says:

    Smokey’s cat not counting his chickens yet.

    hiding-cats-pics14.jpg

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 4:53 pm

  84. newsjunkie says:

    There has not been a terrorist attack in the United States since Jack Bauer first appeared on television.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 4:55 pm

  85. Administrator says:

    Actual picture of Smokey awaiting the “imminent” attack and not counting his chickens.

    2894451883_d5c7a008bd.jpg

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 4:57 pm

  86. DavosSherman says:

    Smokey’s picture:

    Hunting-with-Dick-Cheney–15752.jpg

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:00 pm

  87. DavosSherman says:

    cheney_shoots_scooter.jpg

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:02 pm

  88. Stucky says:

    I’m happy a couple of you are getting your rocks off simply because I supposedly put my foot in my mouth.

    You know, the bottom line isn’t about light pink, dark pink, or red countries.

    The bottom line is the Pie Chart. The USA accounts for 41.5% of GLOBAL military expenditures.

    That doesn’t just piss you off?? What are youz guys? Fucking war mongering newcon douchebags?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:12 pm

  89. Smokey says:

    Anonymous,

    I don’t get internet service. I am typing this at the public library. I used to get the service, but when the government passed the Patriot Act, I knew to discontinue my service right away.

    The government may have fooled some people with their lies about trying to rein in terrorists and evil doers, but they did not fool me.

    I realized that the reason that they passed the Patriot Act was so that they could listen to me talk to my brother about college football, or my other brother about flounder fishing. Or my aunt about the weather, or my grad school buddy about his career. Plus, I am sure they wanted my credit card and checking account numbers so they could pounce.

    It took me a while to put it together—-I asked myself why the government would want to eavesdrop on me, when they already take from the private sector all the money they want via ludicrous bank bailouts and exorbitant taxes. And the lawmakers already have an endless supply of hookers, limos, and champagne courtesy of the taxpayer. But then I remembered.

    The government went to war to steal other countries’ oil, Bush lied and people died, Americans torture innocent people—so the Patriot Act had to be a ruse, an excuse to pry into the affairs of ordinary citizen’s like me

    But they can’t fool me.
    .

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:16 pm

  90. DavosSherman says:

    Library my ass. Your at the Cheney residence in Maryland, Wyoming or McLean.

    Fucking war monger.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 5:37 pm

  91. Smokey says:

    Dick Cheney for POTUS 2012

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8

    26th September 2011 at 5:41 pm

  92. DavosSherman says:

    Tell me who he’ll be taking hunting and I’ll tell you if I’m voting for the fucking whack-job-neo-con

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 5:56 pm

  93. SSS says:

    Anon

    As I’ve said on several occasions in the past, the U.S. does not need to have troops stationed in places like the UK, Germany, Turkey, Korea (AWD take note), and Japan (AWD take note again). Those countries can well enough defend themselves.

    But “bringing all the troops home now” is insane. Smokey got it right when he mentioned alliances and TRADE. The U.S. can ensure the safety of not only its trade, but also global trade, by posting military forces overseas where it makes sense. To me, that means naval bases in Spain and Italy for the eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean trade routes, Djibouti and Diego Garcia (UK possession) for the Suez Canal and Middle Eastern oil shipping lanes, and Guam (US possession) for the western Pacific trade routes. Pearl Harbor and our West Coast naval bases can cover the rest of the Pacific. And who else can be posted at those naval bases? Can you say “Marines?”

    Make sense to anyone else? I hope so.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 7:03 pm

  94. SSS says:

    Smokey

    One “small” correction to what you wrote above to TeresaE, “I’m not sure you or I know exactly what was in the Founding Fathers minds when they wrote the Constitution.”

    Uh, yes, we do know what was in their minds. It’s called The Federalist Papers, written anonymously at the time by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay after the Constitution was published. It’s all there. “This is why we wrote it the way we did.”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 7:34 pm

  95. Smokey says:

    SSS,

    My statement directed to TeresaE was very accurate and I stand by it.

    “I am not sure you or I know exactly what was in the Founding Fathers minds when they wrote the Constitution.”

    Please notice the “you or I”.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    26th September 2011 at 7:54 pm

  96. platoplubius says:

    @ Stucky

    That video about the school district in California going door to door is some bullshit! Leave it to someone in California to come up with this shit!

    Did they not think this out?

    “Knock, knock”

    “Who is it?”

    “I’m from the Government and I’m here to inject your daughter with some goodies”

    They didn’t think this would work did they? I’d love for someone to come knock on my door and ask why my kids aren’t getting the TDAP or swine flu vaccines….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 8:34 pm

  97. Administrator says:

    They passed the Patriot Act so they could listen in on Smokey making his college football picks. They wanted to get rich because they knew Smokey’s picks were stone cold locks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 8:47 pm

  98. Administrator says:

    Smokey obliterated by the wise old man of TBP – SSS

    Smokey the cur scampers away with his tail between his legs.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 9:05 pm

  99. Dave Doe says:

    Jim, careful , we need Smokey’s predictions for the week so we can bet against him. It’s a lock.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 9:06 pm

  100. Smokey says:

    Administrator,

    SSS is indeed the wise old man of TBP.

    But I bet after reading my response he’d love to take his statement back.

    Because the truth is that I know next to nothing about the Federalist Papers, and I seriously doubt TeresaE does either, based on her comment.

    So I have no problems standing by my original statement.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    26th September 2011 at 9:21 pm

  101. Administrator says:

    The Federalist Papers were written by terrorists. If we had only had DHS and the CIA and surveillance cameras, these tri-hatted terrorists could have been subdued. Then the militarisitc imperial power that you admire so much could have retained power and control over those damned colonies who didn’t realize the imperialist power was just protecting them.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 9:28 pm

  102. DavosSherman says:

    If carpet bombers are “embassies” then the fucking DHS and CIA are probably the unemployment office and the food stamp office.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 9:40 pm

  103. Smokey says:

    The Revolutionary war was an ILLEGAL war.

    We were part of England, a sovereign nation. We should have marched and protested the war in the streets. And then we should have put on the FRONT page of every colony’s newspaper the names of every British citizen that was MURDERED by the outlaw Americans. And we should have stressed that members of our colonies were MURDERING freedom-fighters.

    Every member of the British who had an open wound fester more than three minutes would appropriately be deemed to have been tortured by our murderers.

    We should have made certain that each citizen talked constantly to their neighbors about how our people were MURDERING and torturing INNOCENT soldiers. The largest priority of the citizens should have been to UNDERMINE and motherfuck the war effort, using any means possible.

    The national dialogue should have been that all of our colonies were inhabited by murderers whose ultimate objective included setting up a system for the new government to spy on it’s population through paid informants.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 6

    26th September 2011 at 9:48 pm

  104. DavosSherman says:

    If your’re not totally shitfaced, please drink – a lot – and try to make that point again.

    If you are totally shitfaced please try after coffee tomorrow morning.

    Thank you.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 10:01 pm

  105. Administrator says:

    Smokey’s heroes:

    King George, King Dick Cheney, Lord Cornwallis, Lord Patreaus

    He still declares that the British Surge of 1779 was successful.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 10:16 pm

  106. Smokey says:

    There are parallels in my Revolutionary story and today’s Iraq.

    How our soldiers today are routinely called, by some Americans, “murderers of innocent people”.

    How the Iraq and Afghanistan war has been motherfucked and undermined by the news media in this country.

    How some people in this country gleefully brag that Americans torture “innocent” freedom fighters from other countries.

    How a running body count has been conducted on the front pages of newspapers in the US over many years.

    BTW, SSS pretty much exposed that chart for what it is.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5

    26th September 2011 at 10:19 pm

  107. Smokey says:

    My Revolutionary tale was not my logic. It is the perverted logic of the Ron Paul curs. I could give less of a shit about England.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 10:21 pm

  108. Smokey says:

    Hitler on the move in WW II.

    I can hear the Ron Paul curs now. “Neville Chamberlain is a man of vision, substance.”

    “Leave Hitler alone. That’s none of our business over there.”

    “We deserved to get bombed at Pearl Harbor because of our interventionist policies. We need to stay in our own country and look out for our people.”

    All, while keeping their hands firmly covering their nuts. But, Goddamn, don’t hit back for Pearl Harbor.

    Then when we got into that war, “We’re empire building. Imposing our ideology on the world.”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    26th September 2011 at 10:28 pm

  109. platoplubius says:

    Ever hear of a stingray? It’s the new way Big Brother can track you! It has been going on for years and this is the first case, in Arizona being held before a federal judge.

    (3min video)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iAmNqqV5DJ0

    This is where the massive servers come into play. Storage of information, however irrelevant at the time can always be mined at a later time for WHATEVER reason.

    Too much is too much!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 10:43 pm

  110. Smokey says:

    I’m tired of bashing all of you helpless curs.

    If you are not on life support tomorrow at the ICU of your local hospital, I’ll be glad to bash you some more.

    BTW, Administrator, I gave you a pass today.

    How’s your FXP lately? I’m sure China is at the brink, getting ready to crash any day.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 11:05 pm

  111. Thinker says:

    Felony Eavesdropping, Illinois style

    September 27, 2011 (CHICAGO) (WLS) — This is the story of Louis Frobe, but it’s also about others who have run afoul of the Illinois eavesdropping law, one of the most restrictive of its kind in the country. It requires that all parties to a conversation give their consent before you can record legally record it.

    Say you take out your smart phone and you start taking pictures of police officers making an arrest. The pictures and video are allowed by law, but you must have permission before you record the audio, even if the officer is on the public way.

    “I’m just an ordinary citizen. I was on my way to the movies, and all of a sudden I’m facing a felony and 15 years in prison,” Frobe told ABC7.

    Frobe calls it the worst experience of his life. He was on his way to a late evening movie on an August night last year when he was stopped for speeding in far north suburban Lindenhurst. He didn’t believe he was in a 35-mile-an-hour zone, and he figured if he was going to get ticket he wanted to be able to document his challenge with video evidence, so he got out his flip camera, which he was not very adept at using.

    At one point he held it out the window trying to record where he was. When the officer, being recorded on his squad dash cam, walked back to Frobe’s car, the officer saw Frobe’s camera.

    Officer: “That recording? Frobe : “Yes, Yes, I’ve been… Officer: “Was it recording all of our conversation? Frobe: “Yes. Officer: “Guess what? You were eavesdropping on our conversation. I did not give you permission to do so. Step out of the vehicle.”

    Louis Frobe was then cuffed and arrested for felony eavesdropping.

    “I was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. I was begging him, I said I didn’t know about this law. Would you please take the camera – this is no big deal – and smash it. You know I didn’t know about the law,” Frobe told ABC7.

    Frobe spent a night in the Lake County jail and was released on bond the next day. Later the charges against him were dropped, but so angry was Louis Frobe that he decided to file a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the state’s eavesdropping law.

    “And they had audio and they had video on me, but I’m not allowed to do it to them. I’m in a private car on a public street and it’s a public official. Why shouldn’t I be able to record what’s going on to prove my innocence?” he said.

    The Attorney General’s office argues that the case should be dismissed and that there’s no constitutional standing.

    But in a similar case, a Circuit Court judge in downstate Crawford County earlier this month declared the state’s eavesdropping act unconstitutional. Last month, the First Circuit Federal Court of Appeals found in favor of Boston man who used his cell phone to record several police officers making an arrest on Boston common. They are part of a growing number of cases that test the intent of a law and its intersection with technology – the omnipresent smart phone.

    And in Louis Frobe’s case?

    “It’s a public conversation about a public function. A traffic stop,” attorney Torri Hamilton said.

    Hamilton says the law should turn for public officials on the public way where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation.

    “He has no reasonable expectation that his conversation with Louis is private, and so therefore it shouldn’t be criminal to record it,” said Hamilton.

    Police and prosecutors argue that audio recording of officers – even when they are on the public way – could hamper investigations and jeopardize witnesses, especially in a day when what’s recorded can be instantaneously uploaded to YouTube or other platforms.

    The Lindenhurst police chief says his officer who stopped Louis Frobe was simply following the law. The chief also points out that if the same thing had happened 13 miles to the north in Wisconsin, there wouldn’t have been an arrest because the eavesdropping law there is much less restrictive.

    Frobe’s case is in federal district court in Illinois.

    (Copyright ©2011 WLS-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 11:27 pm

  112. scott says:

    TIME TO KILL SOFTWARE SCUM!

    i CANNOT BELIEVE IT. I had a PC hooked up today. One that had worked perfectly a fortnight before and, after ADOBE, Microsoft and the other ‘Updaters” had their time with it, it no longer works at all.

    Imagine if TV had developed this way! Say channel 5, 7 or 9.Whatever you had in your hometown and some “Indian” guru appeared on the screen saying you would have to turn your TV off so that he, an shithead you don’t know from Adam, can ‘adjust’ it so as to enable you to see tonight’s episode of Gunsmoke. Only instead of watching Gunsmoke you only get ‘pop ups’ warning you your subscription to some security service has expired.

    Isn’t it way past time to take these $9.95/month bandits outside, chop their programming fingers off, blow the back of their CEO’s heads off and tell them they cannot sell ‘software’ that has no value a year later?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 11:39 pm

  113. DavosSherman says:

    Mac!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 7:46 am

  114. Administrator says:

    Smokey

    Thanks for asking about FXP.

    July 1 $26.43
    Today $38.61
    Three month return = 46%

    Of course, I did sell one third of my postion last week at $42.50. No need to be a pig.

    I have a GTC order in to sell some more at $50. I expect that will kick in within the next 90 days.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 7:46 am

  115. Administrator says:

    Actual picture of Smokey after his unequivical victory on this thread.

    face_of_man_beaten_to_death.jpe

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 7:49 am

  116. Dave Doe says:

    Talking about Big Brother (The Chicoms are the ultimate big brother).

    Hugh Hendry is Killing it Shorting China

    http://www.businessinsider.com/hugh-hendry-short-china-up-39-2011

    Admin, go easy on Smokey until we get those juicy college picks we can bet against.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 8:01 am

  117. Administrator says:

    “Fear, after all, is our real enemy. Fear is taking over our world. Fear is being used as a tool of manipulation in our society. Itʼs how politicians peddle policy and how Madison Avenue sells us things that we donʼt need. Think about it. Fear that weʼre going to be attacked, fear that there are communists lurking around every corner, fear that some little Caribbean country that doesnʼt believe in our way of life poses a threat to us…Fear of growing old and being alone.”

    Christopher Isherwood

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 8:31 am

  118. TeresaE says:

    Wow, I missed a lot! And don’t have time to read them all.

    Smokey,

    First let me apologize for taking almost 24 hours to respond, my day went nuts, my six year old came home raging and then both hub & her started feeling like shit. I can almost never be here between 5ish until 11 so I planned to log in after 11, but fell asleep on the couch, oops. And I should already be at work now, but you responded and I don’t want you to think I’m avoiding you (which is working on a newish personal fault of mine, avoidance) so please forgive any ‘death by spell check’ or incomplete thoughts.

    Anyway. I do respect the heck out of your opinion, but you really aren’t pitching anything I didn’t use to believe, or hear before when it concerns our “duty” to the rest of the world. As you said, “…Reasonable people can and probably always will disagree about this stuff. ..” Coming from a family of screamers, finger-pointers and name-callers, I strive to be reasonable and I strive above all else, to not degenerate into screaming “you are such an asshole!” when the situation allows. The first to scream usually loses.

    Again, since many of your points were once near and dear to me – I have career servicemen on both sides of my family – I won’t attempt to justify every reason why I realized the errors of my past beliefs.

    Couple points struck me though, the one screaming to me is about the laws. I never said we needed to jump headlong into anarchy and MadMax, some laws are necessary to keep the honest man honest. But we left “some,” a long freaking time ago. I read a book (think it was called 3 Felonies a Day, but not sure) and it was eye-opening. There are so many laws, rules, regulations and the like that everyone of us – including YOU – has broken a couple this week. We just haven’t been “caught” yet.

    George Carlin once said something along the lines of ‘the Ten Commandments could be boiled down to two rules. Leave other people and their shit alone.’ Every jurisdiction in America would be wise to do just that. None will, too many jobs, politicians, cronies and the like would lose. Instead we have stood back and watched our country become a fucking police state, with a well-trained, well-funded, army of cops ready to bust us for everything from drinking unpasteurized milk, or lemonade stands.

    Give me a fucking break Smokey, there are sensible laws made to help keep society’s wheels greased and then there are crushing, everybody is a potential revenue enhancement all we have to do is write the law. That is crazy and to expect the lunatics in government to run the asylum trying to control the nuts, you’d have to agree it is a little doomed.

    Second point, you are 100% correct it was incredibly arrogant of me to talk for our founders. All I can do is base my interpretation of the words I have read on the current history of THAT time. Same exact strategy I used while trying to interpret the bible. You state, “…You would probably agree that they did not contemplate the world getting “smaller” because, two hundred years after their death, tens of thousands of people every single day would fly through the air…”

    I counter that they may have not known the scope, but they sure as hell knew the feeling. Cross-Atlantic travel, not to mention trade with the East, was continuing to grow by leaps and bounds during their lifetimes or recent histories. The world was getting smaller with every new “world” discovery and conquest even back then. Then to think they had no clue as to the coming effects of new technology doesn’t seem plausible. But, that is just my opinion, we can agree to disagree – though I really doubt Ben F. would.

    Your point about global dalliances comes across the same way. During their times Europe was all the fuck over the world taking over natives and resources. They knew EXACTLY what they were talking about.

    I’m not even going to bother trying to argue points about our worldwide occupations and “office” buildings. All I know is that if Germany enjoys our security asssistance, (from whom? our “friend” Russia?) they should help fucking paying us for it.

    Why is it we can offshore socks and pay Chinese companies to make them, but when we send our boys over with the potential specter of death hanging over their heads, we do not ask the country to support the benefit of our security forces?

    We have our troops all over the earth to guarantee our corporations cheap(er) natural resources, thus enabling Americans to buy things we don’t need for less fiat. I find that the most disturbing.

    I know you get all upset, but you shouldn’t. Until the shit hits the fan and the troops are called home to police our asses, nothing will change. Fear will keep the clueless believing and if that doesn’t work, shiny foreign info machines are busy draining the collective focus. Won’t even mention that they have PROVEN that a human loses a couple IQ points for every 10 pounds above optimal health weights. Also proven that chemical exposure from our vaccinations, home fragrances and Frosted Mini-Wheats (I’m hungry) damage our brains. Allowing this materialistic, corporate, “consumer” economy to focus on lots and lots and lots of natural resource eating is insanity. From the troops, to the retailers, to the doctors and counselors, we are paying and paying for the insanity to continue.

    If we were to drastically curb our worldwide military presence, allowing the natural resources to reach their TRUE level of costs/price (not artificially suppressed prices due to military might, which is just exploiting the other country under guise of “helping” them), it would solve a whole lot of our problems all at once. Instead of a disposable society importing socks from China, we could go back to being a quality-focused economy. I can dream.

    And, I agree, we disagree.

    So it goes

    Have a great day.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 9:55 am

  119. Smokey says:

    Teresa, you make a lot of sense. A lot!!

    You know I don’t actually believe most of what I post here. I just like to stir shit.

    I actually don’t know jack-shit what the Founding Fathers intended because I’ve never even read one paragraph of things like The Federalist Papers. I just like blowing smoke up people’s asses. So, I will take your word for it.

    It all comes down to OIL. All our wars in the middle east are for oil. We need oil to survive. I’m OK with closing all bases around the world except in the middle east. If we have to kill a few towelheads to get our oil, so be it. I am sure you agree with that.

    That cur Stucky says he’s in love with you. So am I. I just want to know, who would you pick if you absolutely had to?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    26th September 2011 at 10:08 am

  120. Smokey says:

    TeresaE,

    Thanks for responding. Sorry you missed most of the fun yesterday.

    Perhaps you and I will do battle again.

    Until then.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    26th September 2011 at 10:30 am

  121. Padre says:

    Of all these kvetching commentors [not without juistification] not one seems to see some keys:

    1) The purpose of government USED to be to help citizens. Now,, government’s purpose is to:
    “Screw the taxpayer and hire as many workers as possible to help in the screwing.
    2) No one seems willing to cite the US Supreme Court for its recent and egregious failures:
    They let a black man, of uncertain guilt, be killed without telling the public why!
    They made the $$ corporations defined as ‘people’ with ‘people’ rights—so their $$$ power
    can move elections any way they want—-unthinking Americans, unmoved [oxymoron]
    4) The Court does all its deliberations in secret—no accounting to the public—-self-righteous,
    unassailable. And Congress, mired in their own confusions, back-stabbing and election $$
    lobbying payoff—don’t have the heart to intervene.
    So the cliff looms and NYC is just a forewarning.

    JLH

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 11:11 am

  122. BRH says:

    Why 50,000 boots on the ground? Why such high tech? Where did the money come from?There is only one good guess. HOME LAND SECURITY CAME IN TOOK OVER AND IS MASQUERADING AS NY POLICE OFFICERS.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 10:24 am

  123. James Brenner says:

    The masses are waking up. Many of the educated population have observed the past ten years the implementation of a police state grid through the Patriot Act via Homeland Security.

    The next ten years will be the MOST IMPORTANT in history! We will either come out of this a free society, free from tyranny, OR we will be subjugated slaves, with no rights, no voice in government, no sovereignty, implanted microchips, forced inoculations, bio and food terrorism (by government), with the sheeple looking to government to provide the answers, solutions, and protection (Government IS the TERRORIST dummy).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 12:59 pm

  124. Robert M Stahl says:

    WHERE IS INDIRA SINGH???
    To UNITE THE PEOPLE, SWAT should be employed, conceptually, by all people everywhere. But what context, or WHERE in their hearts should they be united to fight the good fight? Well, since 2008 INDIRA SINGH has been missing and the two radio shows listed below with her should be enough FUSE to light this bomb, to get SWAT for the first time to search for the right target, then aim for the bullseye where noone has ever identified so well what it is other than SINGH, money laundering.
    We need both accuracy and precision, from an engineering point of view two completely separate details, but we also need a WORLD psychological agreement, or pact, so here is what we should be looking for in LAW ENFORCEMENT at the street level and the world level. First, at the street level, there are two programs to download to your ipods about Singh and pass around to everyone, the first is 2005, October, and Denver’s Michael Corbin interview with her, Corbin murdered likely the same time she came up missing,
    http://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-94247/TS-449404.mp3
    then on Guns and Butter with Bonnie Faulkner, Faulkner still alive and reporting,
    http://legacy.kpfa.org:80//data/20050720-Wed1400.mp3
    As for including the WORLD, the global issue should be about taking those to trial, ultimately the cabals (right?), in WORLD COURT, or in TheHague, Netherlands. This has to be. Here is what evidence should start that trial,
    http://www.RememberBuilding7.org
    from Richard Gage’s Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Remember, since the Nuremberg trials, the US has used the courts to implement heinous agendas all over the planet where they are exempt from the law (Chomsky). This has to stop in the eyes of the world, and with the participation of all. That is why TheHague is so important.

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    26th September 2011 at 9:12 am

  125. C. Pierce says:

    Looking at history, I figure the odds on a brighter tomorrow are stacked heavily against us. And even IF we had a sane government with balls enough to STOP the Fed’s printing presses IMMEDIATELY, we’d still never be able to pay the debts our traitor (yes, traitor) reps. on Cap. Hill have run up against freedom. None of this has happened by accident. It basically began in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act and has been building steam through every administration; not just Obama’s. (He just happens to be, in my opinion, the NWO’s most OBEDIENT US president to date.) Even so, all of our presidents, save one, have served them to willingly (or grudgingly) to some extent. The only exception is JFK, America’s last patriot president. (R.I.P.)
    Something else (and I pray I’m wrong): I don’t believe there will even BE another presidential election. The way things look, B.O. is a shoo-out in 2012. Will he chance that likely possibility? No. Firstly, he would never leave peaceably, and to avoid the embarrassment of being physically removed from the White House he’ll have to cancel all elections. Some have already called for it. If they decide against that, then look for a “national emergency” that requires martial law and suspension of the constitution to “insure our safety.” Hello, dictatorship. I wouldn’t count on the thugs on Capitol Hill to get an attack of patriotism if it happens. Sad, but that’s the kinda’ fella that HISTORICALLY IGNORANT Americans voted into office.

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    26th September 2011 at 11:50 am

  126. Smokey says:

    Robert M. Stahl, ———I could have saved you a shitload of time if you’d have asked me about the whereabouts of Indira.

    When she logically concluded that Building 7 could not have fallen in any way other than a controlled demolition, she said “Fuck it.” and eloped with Sasquatch.

    C. Pierce,———Glad you solved the riddle. The existing USA economic quagmire has not resulted from incompetence, greed and fraud. Fuck no. It is an ongoing conspiracy that began in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act and continues today. Today’s players conspired telepathically with the players alive in 1913 in a cohesive plan to take down today’s US economy. Obama is surely the leader of the New World Order, and I agree he will cancel the presidential election next year and anoint himself King.

    JFC where do all these fucking loonies come from ?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 12:39 pm

  127. platoplubius says:

    @ BRH et al

    Check out 7:19 in this video of the most recent protest that ended in roughly 700 people being arrested.

    http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=fockzr7rXys

    DHS overseeing operations?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    26th September 2011 at 12:40 pm

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