It is good to see SSS being so proud of his fine organization and his favorite President. The 200,000 Mayans sacrificed so the CIA and the U.S. could expand their Empire was worth it. There was a Cold War to be won.
It looks like Dwight Eisenhower and our patriots in the CIA liked Eddie Bernays and his propaganda methods. The long-term impact on the people of Guatemala was devastating. It seems self interest and crony capitalism existed in the 1950s too. Alan Dulles, the head of the CIA, and his brother were major shareholders in the United Fruit Company. I wonder if the CIA coup gave them a good ROI.
The operation, known by the code name Operation PBSUCCESS, lasted from late 1953 to 1954. The CIA armed and trained an ad-hoc “Liberation Army” of about 400 fighters under the command of a then-exiled Guatemalan army officer, Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas, and used them in conjunction with a complex and largely experimental diplomatic, economic, and propaganda campaign. The CIA established the Voice of Liberation radio station, located across the border in Honduras relaying programming originating in Miami, and pretended to be the spontaneous voice of patriots opposed to the elected government. The operation effectively ended the experimental period of representative democracy in Guatemala known as the “Ten Years of Spring”, which ended with Árbenz’s official resignation. Following the coup, the Guatemalan Civil War began, a civil war involving some of the most brutal counterinsurgency of its time (including years of massacres of Maya Native Americans, since characterized by Historical Clarification Commission as genocide). 40,000 to 50,000 people were disappeared during the war and approximately 200,000 were killed.
Upon deposing the Árbenz Guzmán government, Castillo Armas began to dissolve a decade of social and economic reform and legislative progress, and banned labor unions and left-wing political parties, a disenfranchisement that radicalized left-wing Guatemalans. If you’d like to read up on the thirty six years of CIA created horror, click this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_Civil_War
Guatemala ended up being in a 36 year civil war and it was the result of our CIA working in conjunction with the Father of Propaganda and Corporate America for the benefit of the few. I believe this is what they call corporate fascism.
Some more truth. CIA agents are not big fans of democratically elected presidents when they don’t do what the U.S. demands.
The United States, with the connivance of John Foster Dulles and the CIA, overthrew the legitimate democratically elected government of Guatemala at the request of the United Fruit Company. They installed a military dictatorship which led to the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the years succeeding the CIA Coup.
Where’s that mangy cur SSS? Come out and take your beating like a man. Or curl up in a ball like the flea bitten mangy cur that you are.
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Between the hot wars, proxy wars, plus the fallout from American-led coups and sanctions, I’ve got to believe the US government has piled up a civilian death toll north of ten million in the 20th century alone. They seem intent on matching that figure in the 21st century. It is pure, unmitigated evil.
Steve
We’re the bright shining light on the mountaintop. Santorum says so. You have to crack a few eggs (or millions of poor peasants) to make an omlet (or a world empire).
One major feature of American Exceptionalism is that we have been stupendously successful at making the casualties of our imperial actions be non-US-citizens. Most empires had to use up proportionately large numbers of their own soldiers to establish and maintain the empire, but so far we have not. Even WWII, where the US casualty count was quite high in absolute numbers, it was extremely low relative to the US population or the casualty rates of any other major combatant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
Our human casualties of US citizens in all other wars of the last century have been tiny compared to what most other countries experience in any war. The dollar cost has been horrible, and the cost to the enemy and the local civilian population has usually been horrific, but we are somewhat desensitized to war given the low US casualty rate. I’m not making light of the horrible losses of US soldiers, but noting the order of magnitude difference in proportions.
Quit being a dick. The CIA has saved countless thousands of American lives. That fine organization, along with my help, has kept America safe!! If you were honest with yourself you’d thank me profusely. But you’re a damn cur and won’t do it, willya??
SSS has just been doppelganged
SSS hasn’t showed up because after viewing the facts he was so distraught that he headed out onto the mean Streets of Tucson to score some blow. He’s still tripping this morning.
SSS,
after this, you can just pick up your teeth and go to bed.
the job of CIA like any other secret service is to clean the shitters of history. there’s no glory, just shit stains on the walls. if you were seeking for glory, you chose the wrong team.
as for saving American lives, we already saw some brilliant results.
If the murdered ..hrrrrumph- those unfortunate lives lost to collateral damage were to be honestly tallied the US Thugacracy’s record of genocide would equal or surpass the record any other police state.
see for example ….during the Philippine-American War (1899–1902) and pacification campaign (1902–1913), the operations launched by the U.S. against the Filipinos, an integral part of its pacification program, which claimed the lives of over a million Filipinos, constituted genocide.[79]
In November 1901, the Manila correspondent of the Philadelphia Ledger reported: “The present war is no bloodless, opera bouffe engagement; our men have been relentless, have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of ten up, the idea prevailing that the Filipino as such was little better than a dog….”[80] U.S. Army Gen. Leonard Wood, who took part in the Moro Crater massacre in 1906, called for the extermination of all Filipino Muslims since, according to him, they were irretrievably fanatical.[81]
Gore Vidal, in an exchange of letters in the New York Review of Books about the Philippines campaign says, discussing General J. Franklin Bell’s own reporting that American troops were responsible for 600,000 dead men, women, and children on the island of Luzon alone, “If this is not a policy of genocide (no dumb letters on the dictionary meaning of the word), it will do until the real thing comes along.”[82]
during the Philippine-American War (1899–1902) and pacification campaign (1902–1913), the operations launched by the U.S. against the Filipinos, an integral part of its pacification program, which claimed the lives of over a million Filipinos, constituted genocide.[79]
In November 1901, the Manila correspondent of the Philadelphia Ledger reported: “The present war is no bloodless, opera bouffe engagement; our men have been relentless, have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of ten up, the idea prevailing that the Filipino as such was little better than a dog….”[80] U.S. Army Gen. Leonard Wood, who took part in the Moro Crater massacre in 1906, called for the extermination of all Filipino Muslims since, according to him, they were irretrievably fanatical.[81]
Gore Vidal, in an exchange of letters in the New York Review of Books about the Philippines campaign says, discussing General J. Franklin Bell’s own reporting that American troops were responsible for 600,000 dead men, women, and children on the island of Luzon alone, “If this is not a policy of genocide (no dumb letters on the dictionary meaning of the word), it will do until the real thing comes along.”[82]
“I wanted the American eagle to go screaming into the Pacific …Why not spread its wings over the Philippines, I asked myself? … I said to myself, Here are a people who have suffered for three centuries. We can make them as free as ourselves, give them a government and country of their own, put a miniature of the American Constitution afloat in the Pacific, start a brand new republic to take its place among the free nations of the world. It seemed to me a great task to which we had addressed ourselves. But I have thought some more, since then, and I have read carefully the treaty of Paris [which ended the Spanish-American War], and I have seen that we do not intend to free, but to subjugate the people of the Philippines. We have gone there to conquer, not to redeem. It should, it seems to me, be our pleasure and duty to make those people free, and let them deal with their own domestic questions in their own way. And so I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land.”
This would shock me if I didn’t already see the world through the eyes of reality.
This country loves to kill people. Through wars, placed dictators, vaccinations, bad food, unintended consequences of screwing with nature, to name but a few.
I’d bet there has been no better life-eradicating government in the history of the world.
We truly do believe in the adage, “kill them all and let god sort them out.”
Flash – Stalin and Mao racked up some body counts that are just about unbeatable.
Once you pass maybe 100,000, exact numbers are mostly a matter of opportunity, not a real measure of relative evil.
It is with a heavy heart and deep sadness that I now pronounce our hardworking Administrator an idiot savant. A genius with charts and numbers, but otherwise a total dullard when it comes to historical facts and perspective.
What’s your favorite movie, Jim? I bet it’s “Rain Man,” which, I have on good authority, you have watched over 1,000 times. Actual photo follows of SSS trying to teach Admin some basic facts of history. Went over his head like the Space Shuttle. More comments to follow.
[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQO1BfhVdCM2rgvKin519L4gWKuTsNAKWzqiTpsGpi5RPap5RuRNw[/img]
I’m an excellent driver.
SSS
Tell us that story about the evil Soviet Empire and the threat to America from a Guatamelan invasion.
I LOVE THAT ONE.
We all await your CIA version of reality that rationalizes the deaths of 200,000 innocent peasants. I bet you guys laugh and laugh at those CIA reunions when you reminisce about the good old days when you could conduct a coup without anyone questioning your competence or motives.
SSS
That dreaded leftist communist BBC and their propaganda documentaries must be stopped. Maybe the CIA can orchestrate a BBC coup.
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SSS
Are you still trying to gather your thoughts? Maybe you need another nap.
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@Admin
I know for a fact that the map you’ve used is incorrect.
For example, New Zealand isn’t marked yet it was heavily targeted in the late 80s and early 90s, escpecially at the point where New Zealand pulled out of ANZUS because of US interventions and attempted interventions into NZ politics. Nor is Tasmania (which is part of Australia) yet greenie activists there scared off a US aircraft carrier and its support group.
UK and Spain are not marked,
With his above comments, Admin pulls his normal “spam the shit out of the thread” whenever he’s got nothing. So he heads to the junkyard and buys every discarded kitchen sink he can find.
Ok, readers, here’s what happened. On the “Everything You Knew About Peak Oil Was Wrong” thread, he challenged me with this: “I was disappointed you didn’t provide your take in my main article about the CIA involvement in the BERNAYS INSPIRED (emphasis mine) Guatemalan coup.”
So I go to his featured article “Paychecks, etc” and find this statement by Admin about Edward Bernays, “Creating a false storyline of communists in Guatemala on behalf of his client United Fruit Company, resulting in a CIA led military coup which ushered in a brutal dictatorship resulting in the dislocation, torture and death of thousands.” I then proceeded to throw the bullshit flag and destroy his claim that Bernays “created a false storyline…….resulting in a CIA-led coup” in Guatemala in his featured article thread.
Are you with me so far? THEN, the sneaky little bastard creates THIS article which focuses the readers attention on the fantasy that the CIA is responsible for 200,000 deaths in Guatemala. Dim bulb Steve Hogan falls for it, and 12 other dim bulbs give Suckup Steve a thumbs up.
Let me recap some of the things I said to Admin, which he never addressed. Keep in mind that the Guatemalan coup occurred in 1954. After WWII, and in the 8 years prior to 1954, here are some of the things that happened.
1. The Soviet Union continued to occupy all of Eastern Europe and install puppet communist governments in every occupied country.
2. The Soviet Union and East Germany blockaded Berlin, which resulted in the Berlin Airlift.
3. China fell to Mao’s armies. Another country in the communist orbit.
4. North Korea, under Stalinist dictator Kim Il Sung, suddenly attacked South Korea and provoked the Korean War. China sides with North Korea.
5. Viet Minh forces, led by communist Ho Chi Minh, started a guerrilla war against the French colonial government. Vietnam was divided into North and South sectors by the 1954 Treaty of Paris.
6. State Department employee Alger Hiss is outed as a communist. Richard Nixon establishes his anti-communist credentials as a member of the House Un-American Activities Committee.
7. The Soviet Union tests a nuclear device in 1949 and follows later with a powerful hydrogen bomb test in 1953.
8. Ethel and Julius Rosenberg are arrested on espionage and treason charges for passing atomic secrets to the Soviet Union. They are tried, convicted, and executed in June 1953.
9. Joseph Stalin dies in 1953, creating great concern and uneasiness about the future direction of Soviet foreign policy (it only gets MORE aggressive with sponsorship of “Wars of National Liberation”).
Do I need to go on? Like the McCarthy-Army hearings in 19fucking54.
1954 was the very height of the Red Menace period of our history. With the above examples, can you blame the American government AND public for being “concerned” about the intentions of the Soviet Union or communist governments in general. The threat was not only overseas, it was HERE.
And Admin said that public relations “genius” Edward Bernay was somehow responsible for convincing President Dwight Eisenhower, Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, and CIA Director Allen Dulles that we needed to pull off a coup in Guatemala to oust Jacobo Arbenz. As if those three fellows were sound asleep when the events I outlined above occurred. How fucking stupid is that reasoning? Only an idiot savant and Steve Hogan bought it, cheered on by TBP sheeple.
Oh, after Arbenz starting seizing over 1,000,000 acres of private property in Guatemala and redistributing it to campesinos (his government paid a whopping $3 per acre of seized property payable in 25-year bonds at 3% interest, yippee), his government got caught trying to smuggle in a shipload of Czech arms in a Swedish mechant vessel under a falsefied manifest. The year this happened? 1954, of course. Arbenz committed political suicide for his far-left, socialist policies. I’m sure he enjoyed his 5-year exile stay in Fidel Castro’s Cuba from 1960-65, preceded by stayovers in Prague and Moscow.
I’m ready to accept your white flag of surrender, Admin.
Wow. SSS gives us a history lesson to rationalize his organization’s interfering and deciding who should run a sovereign country.
Why do you stop there SSS? Is it because you installed a sadistic nazi like dictator in Guatamela as our friend? Did this brilliant move by the CIA not lead to the deaths of 200,000 Mayans?
I know. They were just collateral damage. It was the Cold War. A few eggs had to be broken to make that democratic omlet. The CIA was spreading democracy, right?
I think it was around this same time that you and your friends conducted a coup on ANOTHER democratically elected president in Iran. That has worked out well too.
It is an interesting strategy that you and your CIA friends have used to promote American democracy to the world – overthrowing democratically elected men and replacing them with brutal dictators.
By the end of this thread I expect you to scurry away from TBP like those mangy curs Smokey and LLPOH after receiving a beatdown of epic proportions.
Admin
You ignorant slut. I was 10 years old when those coups occurred. That said, are history lessons painful to your narrow-minded ego?
As to your question, “Did this brilliant move by the CIA not lead to the deaths of 200,000 Mayans?” No, it did not. You made this preposterous statement, now you prove it. It’s not my job to disprove it. Line up your historical FACTS, tough guy.
And unlike Smokey, and perhaps LLPOH, who may be just taking a break, I don’t run. You can count on me to call out some of your sorry-ass statements whenever they occur, which happens to be quite often.
SSS
I can’t believe you are coping out just because you were 10 years old. I bet you were playing with little John Foster Dulles dolls at the time, so you are guilty.
I provided a link already to the 36 year Guatamelan Civil War, which was a direct result of your CIA meddling in a sovereign country. It might be too detailed and truthful for your pea brain.
I expect you to go into Shultz mode because to accept responsibility for your actions is unacceptable to a CIA agent.
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There are consequences to actions. You will rationalize that everything done by your CIA between 1950 and 1988 was OK because it was all done in the name of winning the Cold War. I bet you have a painting of Edward Bernays on the wall in your old folks home.
That is bullshit. Right and wrong matter. Morality and immorality matter.
I hope you show bigger balls than those pussies Smokey and LLPOH. Taking a break my fat ass. They scampered away with their tails between their legs after experiencing crushing defeats at Admin’s hands.
I’m sure they are lurking and will give me a thumbs down to support your sorry ass. They don’t have the guts to show themselves.
good cop, bad cop.
actually I gave both sides in this debate a thumbs up.
Why? Because TBP is about cranium bashing and having beer, or heart attack inducing philly cheese steak sammich, afterwards. Pollex north.
Salud [good health] to you my bros in bizzaro world.
Kill Bill
Admin understands nothing, NOTHING, about Latin American history. He thinks he’s a tough guy because he courageously points out the utter failures in his series of America’s “30 Blocks of Squalor,” which would be read as a racist screed in any mainsteam media forum. He’s right, of course, on this subject, and he is not afraid of putting the social ills of the 30 Blocks into graphic and controversial language. Kudos and congratulations to him for standing up to the truth which hits us all square in the face.
Where he gets in trouble is when he ventures outside of his area of expertise and experience. I’ve lived in Latin America (Panama, El Salvador, and Colombia), and I know how these people think and act. At least the people in power.
First, many have a mentality passed to them by the Spaniards, which evolved into a superiority complex against any and all races other than theirs. Simple as that. I’m not saying all Latinos are hard core racists, but many of them are.
Guess who’s at the bottom of the ladder? Indigenous people. Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, whomever.
Second, Spanish colonization of Latin America was harsh and dictatorial. Simple as that. Strong men (cuadillos) were the preferred rulers for centuries and continued through the 20th Century.
A communist campesino, Farabundo Marti, tried a peasant uprising in El Salvador in the 1930s. Yikes. Didn’t work. It resulted in the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands on men, women and children. To this day, the uprising is known as La Matanza (the killing). The communist-inspired Salvadoran revolution from 1979 to 1992 was named after Marti. More tens of thousands died.
From 1948-1958, Colombia suffered over 1 million (!!!!!) deaths resulting from La Violencia, a tiff between conservative and liberal political views in the country. Some tiff.
Now Admin wants us to believe that the CIA was responsible for 200,000 deaths of Mayans and others in Guatemala over a 36 year period. I had no idea the CIA was in charge of Guatemala for 36 years. Not only did he change the subject from his favorite, all-powerful propogandist, Edward Bernays, but he switched subjects to that all time favorite bogeyman, the CIA.
This is pure connect-my-dots historical fantasy. Make your case, Admin. Steve Hogan and the rest of your boot-lickers are waiting.
SSS
Brilliant attempt to deflect the dialogue away from the real issue with a history lesson about Latin America.
Fact: The CIA led a coup over a democratically elected president of a sovereign country to benefit the United Fruit Company, with the help of propaganda supplied by Edward Bernays who was paid $100,000 by United Fruit to do so.
Fact: The dictator installed by the CIA was a murderous thug. His method of rule resulted in a 36 year Civil War which resulted in the slaughter of 200,000 people.
I know it is hard for your alzheimers racked brain to grasp the concept of actions having consequences, but it was the actions of the CIA that led to this slaughter.
How exactly did this CIA coup benefit the USA? Did it really help win the Cold War? How about Vietnam? Was that a big help? Your own CIA friends have concluded that our actions have created blowback around the world. Latin America is still a basket case today. How come all your hard work and CIA led intervention haven’t resulted in a democratic and capitalist Latin America? How come your years of fighting drug lords resulted in more drugs than ever coming from Latin America?
I can’t wait for another history lesson about Latin America, while you shirk your responsibility for the results of your actions.
Admin understands nothing, NOTHING, about Latin American history -SSS
I do not know this to be certes.
But I will admit that I, due to what I have been told or read, have conflicting thoughts on the issue.
I’ve lived in Latin America (Panama, El Salvador, and Colombia), and I know how these people think and act. At least the people in power. -SSS
i worked for a bit in Venezuela and it was easy to see why the revlolution happened , IMO, it was because the 10% held all the wealth.
So they elected Chavez.
I dont care about wealth, personally, but the accreation of it will cause problems.
Now Admin wants us to believe that the CIA was responsible for 200,000 deaths of Mayans and others in Guatemala over a 36 year period. -SSS
As information goes blowback occurs true or untrue.
Was the CIA compicit?
I dont know. I simply dont have the facts to make that judgement.
What I do appreciate is your input SSS
Funny how Marcos was our man for so many years,martial law and all.
Im sure all those Iraqis dyin from depleted uranium wont develop a bad attitude either.
Ron Paul,i like his thoughts on keeping our nose out of others buisness,were to broke to be doing this stuff anyhow.
Speaking of funny things. We the US crawl under the covers with the Soviet threat , play a little footsie and then cry foul when Uncle Joe becomes ,let’s say less Uncley.
Evil begets evil.
As Washington explicit warned in his farewell speech ” So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions, by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluged citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.”
http://www.tpromo2.com/gko/files1/entangle.htm
The CIA has (mis)lead this country into one foreign debacle after another ,yet US fools never seem to learn.
Persnickety .
Stalin and Mao were mere bookmarks of a certain time in the annuls of mass murder . I’m talking full list here .Add up all the killing , including so called collateral and you’ve got yourself some real blood on your hands..
see list here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
It’s so damn hard to find drugs on US streets these days…DAMN those CIA drug warriors…Damn ’em all to hell.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/the_oral_deposition_of_richard_j._brenneke_6-21-91.html
Question by Congressman William Alexander, Jr. So you worked for Mr. [John] Gotti as well as for the CIA?
Answer by Richard Brenneke. Actually the CIA told me to do that on his behalf.
Q. So the CIA was in, would you say, partnership or association with Mr. Gotti?
A. Yes, sir. I would say a partnership.
Q. And can you describe the nature of that partnership?
A. Sure. The organized crime members had a need for two things: they needed drugs brought into the country on a reliable, safe basis; they needed people taken out of the country or people brought into the country without alerting customs or INS to the fact that they were being brought into the country; they also needed their money taken offshore so that it would not be subject to United States tax where they might have to declare its source. And so we performed these kinds of functions for them.
Q. Mr. Brenneke, are you saying that the CIA was in the business of bringing drugs into the United States?
A. Yes, sir. That’s exactly what I’m saying.
— New York Mob at Mena
SSS , do you still have contacts in the Golden Triangle ?…some of the local junkies were looking to score some smack and I told ’em who better to ask than a main supplier.. Yeah boyz!
Q. Now, did the Gotti organization, through Reale, pay money to the CIA
for the drugs?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. Do you know how much money?
A. Firsthand knowledge, somewhere in the $50,000,000 bracket.
Q. How do you know how much money?
A. Because I banked that money for them in Panama City, and ultimately
transferred it to other locations in Europe….
Q. So what would be the procedure for you to receive the payment from the
Gotti organization for the drugs?
A. Generally the money was — okay. Let me restate that. The money was
given to us in cash.
Q. “Us,” you mean the CIA?
A. “Us,” meaning the people I worked with, who were also associated with
the Central Intelligence Agency. We would transfer that money to banks in
Central and South America. And from there transfer via accounts that I
had established back in 1970 — they were accounts which I was a
beneficial holder and the named signee on it….
Q. Can you recall any conversations you had with any of the CIA agents
about the money, and tell us the nature of that conversation, the scope
of it?
A. Sure. When I found that we were bringing drugs into the United States,
and that we were receiving money which was being put into accounts which
I knew to belong to the United States Government, as I’d set them up
specifically for that purpose, I called Mr. Don Gregg, who was a CIA
officer with whom I was acquainted, and complained about the nature of
what we were doing.
Q. Now, who is Mr. Don Gregg?
A. At that time, he was George Bush – Vice-President George Bush’s
National Security Advisor.
Q. And do you recall the date that you had this conversation with Mr. Gregg?
A. I am more than willing to look for it in my telephone records.
Q. And when you discover that, you can provide it for us?
A. I will provide you with —
Q. You have records of the conversation?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And will you make a copy of that record available for this —
A. Yes, sir, I will. Including my handwritten notes that are contemporaneous.
Q. Now, you don’t have any notes with you at this time?
A. No, I do not.
Q. But do you recall the conversation with Mr. Gregg?
A. Very well.
Q. And can you tell us what you remember about that conversation?
A. I surely can. I was told that it was not my business, what I was
flying in and out of the country. That I was hired to do specific things,
and if I would do those things and not pay any attention to anything
else, we would all be very happy. I didn’t like that.
Q. Well, what else did he say?
A. Shut up and do your job.
Q. He said, “shut up and do your job?”
A. Essentially, yes.
Evil ain’t what it used to be .Satan lost Hitler , Mao and Stalin , but at least he’s still got the CIA.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of CIA covert operations. (2) Former State Department official William Blum correctly calls this an “American Holocaust.”
You need to read the book “How to Kill 11 Million People”. It doesn’t take long. It is how the Nazis managed to kill 11 million of their own citizens BEFORE the war even started. They basically LIED to the Jews in the ghettos, to the families of the institutionalized, to the Roma and all the other “undesirables” the Nazis thought they needed to get rid off.
It wasn’t only the BIG lies the Nazis told but also the LITTLE lies the German people, like people anywhere, tell themselves every day, Lies that even in the face of the awful reality, people believed either because they thought these lies were true or were afraid that they were.
Problem is, when States engage in LYING, millions of people die…….
So where, exactly is our MEDIA, the TRUTHTELLERS? Oh, I forgot, it’s Superbowl weekend coming up. Move along citizen, nothing to see here.
I’m just so glad we have evolved morally and are so smart now and could NEVER act like the Nazis and have earned the lessons of history!!! Whew! That’s a relief!!!1
Holy shit. Flash starts yammering about John Gotti, and Hope plays the Nazi card. Back to our regularly scheduled program.
Look, Admin. I used a long list of historical FACTS to put the year 1954 and the Guatemalan coup into an accurate historical perspective. The big picture. You, however, chose to take one tiny and insignificant incident, Edward Bernays’ employment by the United Fruit Company, and weave a completely false impression and conclusion of WHY the executive leadership of the U.S. approved the CIA’s covert operation to remove Jacobo Arbenz from power.
Here’s the bottom line. With or without Bernays in the picture, the Eisenhower administration would have done exactly the same thing it did. Period.
Why don’t you go back and review that BBC film clip you posted. In it, the GUATEMALAN COMMUNIST LABOR LEADER stated that he was surprised that Arbenz chose to start his agrarian reform program at the beginning of his administration. He thought Arbenz would have been smarter to do it at the end of his presidency. Right he was about that, because the Truman administration immediately started to pay close attention to what was going on in Guatemala. And how do you “pay close attention.” You tell the CIA to ramp up their information collection activities. Ike just followed up on what Harry started.
And when that arms shipment to Guatemala from communist Czechoslovakia was discovered in 1954, it was all over. Arbenz had sealed his own fate.
See, that wasn’t so difficult to understand, was it?
SSS again ignores the consequences of the actions taken. Do you ever consider success or failure in your view of the world? What was the mission? What constituted long-term success? Do you consider setting in motion a 36 year civil war to be a success? I’m sure that was the plan. Right?
These are basic questions that need to be answered. But, you are too busy rationalizing history to fit these basic questions into your dialogue.
You sure are up early. That means an early nap.
Sunday, January 29, 2012More US scrap metal headed for Persian Gulf
USS Ponce joins USS Enterprise in Persian Gulf
By YaYaCanada
How much clearer could it be that a false flag event is planned?
Further to our earlier discussion about the US having found a way to dispose of its scrap metal and at the same time create a pretext (with the help of Israel?) for WWIII, here is the latest news report (bolding mine):
Pentagon deploys ‘mothership’ to Persian Gulf as tensions with Iran escalate
The Pentagon is rushing a “mothership” to the Middle East to be used by commando teams as unrest in the region heightens, reports The Washington Post.
The U.S. Navy is planning to refit the USS Ponce, an amphibious transport docking ship, which was about to be retired and decommissioned.
The Ponce was commissioned in 1971 – it’s now over 40 years old. Wikipedia reports:
On 2 December, 2011, Ponce came home to await decommissioning on 30 March, 2012, when she would be towed to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and be placed with the mothball fleet
And now “she” is headed to the Gulf. How much clearer could it be that a false flag event is planned?
SSS and Admin… Youz guyz should hug it out. on this one I’m going to lean towards admin for the simple fact that his arguement is a bit more articulated and organized. PLUS at one point it was apparent that SSS gave in by essentially saying “but we had to! the planet was turning RED!”…. so to me that’s when I chose the winner.
@ Flash: “UNCLEY” HA HA HAAAA! OMFG Dewwwd! crackin’ my ass up!