BREAD BASKET TO THE WORLD?

63 comments

Posted on 4th March 2012 by Administrator in Economy |Politics |Social Issues

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Maybe some of our farmer members can add some insight to this article from http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/. Is the article too dire? Are drought conditions in the Midwest becoming more prevelant? Could we experience another dustbowl, on par with the 1930s? Is the data on the Ogallala Aquafier accurate? Inquiring minds want to know.

20 Signs That Dust Bowl Conditions Will Soon Return To The Heartland Of America

For decades, the heartland of America has been the breadbasket of the world.  Unfortunately, those days will shortly come to an end.  The central United States is rapidly drying up and dust bowl conditions will soon return.  There are a couple of major reasons for this.  Number one, the Ogallala Aquifer is being depleted at an astounding pace.  The Ogallala Aquifer is one of the largest bodies of fresh water in the entire world, and water from it currently irrigates more than 15 million acres of crops.  When that water is gone we will be in a world of hurt.  Secondly, drought conditions have become the “new normal” in many areas of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and other states in the middle part of the country.  Scientists tell us that the wet conditions that we enjoyed for several decades after World War II were actually the exception to the rule and that most of time time the interior west is incredibly dry.  They also tell us that when dust bowl conditions return to the area, they might stay with us a lot longer than a decade like they did during the 1930s.  Unfortunately, without water you cannot grow food, and with global food supplies as tight as they are right now we cannot afford to have a significant decrease in agricultural production.  But it is not just the central United States that is experiencing the early stages of a major water crisis.  Already many other areas around the nation are rapidly developing their own water problems.  As supplies of fresh water get tighter and tighter, some really tough decisions are going to have to be made.  Fresh water is absolutely essential to life, and it is going to become increasingly precious in the years ahead.

Most Americans have never even heard of the Ogallala Aquifer, but the truth is that it is one of the most important bodies of water on the globe.  It covers well over 100,000 square miles and it sits underneath the states of Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming and South Dakota.

Water drawn from the Ogallala Aquifer is used to water more than 15 million acres of crops.  Without this source of water, the United States would not be the breadbasket of the world.

That is why what is happening right now is so alarming.

The following are 20 signs that dust bowl conditions will soon return to the heartland of America….

#1 The Ogallala Aquifer is being drained at a rate of approximately 800 gallons per minute.

#2 According to the U.S. Geological Survey, since 1940 “a volume equivalent to two-thirds of the water in Lake Erie” has been permanently lost from the Ogallala Aquifer.

#3 Decades ago, the Ogallala Aquifer had an average depth of approximately 240 feet, but today the average depth is just 80 feet.  In some areas of Texas, the water is gone completely.

#4 Scientists are warning that nothing can be done to stop the depletion of the Ogallala Aquifer.  The ominous words of David Brauer of the Ogallala Research Service should alarm us all….

“Our goal now is to engineer a soft landing. That’s all we can do.”

#5 According to a recent National Geographic article, the average depletion rate of the Ogallala Aquifer is picking up speed….

Even more worrisome, the draining of the High Plains water account has picked up speed. The average annual depletion rate between 2000 and 2007 was more than twice that during the previous fifty years. The depletion is most severe in the southern portion of the aquifer, especially in Texas, where the water table beneath sizeable areas has dropped 100-150 feet; in smaller pockets, it has dropped more than 150 feet.

#6 According to the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, the U.S. interior west is now the driest that it has been in 500 years.

#7 It seems like the middle part of the United States experiences a major drought almost every single year now.  Last year, “the drought of 2011” virtually brought Texas agriculture to a standstill.  More than 80 percent of the state of Texas experienced “exceptional drought” conditions at some point, and it was estimated that about 30 percent of the wheat fields in Texas were lost.  Agricultural losses from the drought were estimated to be $3 billion in the state of Texas alone.

#8 Wildfires have burned millions of acres of vegetation in the central part of the United States in recent years.  For example, wildfires burned an astounding 3.6 million acres in the state of Texas alone during 2011.  This helps set the stage for huge dust storms in the future.

#9 Texas is not the only state that has been experiencing extremely dry conditions.  Oklahoma only got about 30 percent of the rainfall that it normally gets last summer.

#10 In some areas of the southwest United States we are already seeing huge dust storms come rolling through major cities.  You can view video of a giant dust storm rolling through Phoenix, Arizona right here.

#11 Unfortunately, scientists tell us that it would be normal for dust bowl conditions to persist in parts of North America for decades.  The following is from an article in the Vancouver Sun….

But University of Regina paleoclimatologist Jeannine-Marie St. Jacques says that decade-long drought is nowhere near as bad as it can get.

St. Jacques and her colleagues have been studying tree ring data and, at the American Association for the Advancement of Science conference in Vancouver over the weekend, she explained the reality of droughts.

“What we’re seeing in the climate records is these megadroughts, and they don’t last a decade—they last 20 years, 30 years, maybe 60 years, and they’ll be semi-continental in expanse,” she told the Regina Leader-Post by phone from Vancouver.

“So it’s like what we saw in the Dirty Thirties, but imagine the Dirty Thirties going on for 30 years. That’s what scares those of us who are in the community studying this data pool.”

#12 Experts tell us that U.S. water bills are likely to soar in the coming years.  It is being projected that repairing and expanding our decaying drinking water infrastructure will cost more than one trillion dollars over the next 25 years, and as a result our water bills will likely approximately triple over that time period.

#13 Right now, the United States uses approximately 148 trillion gallons of fresh water a year, and there is no way that is sustainable in the long run.

#14 According to a U.S. government report, 36 states are already facing water shortages or will be facing water shortages within the next few years.

#15 Lake Mead supplies about 85 percent of the water to Las Vegas, and since 1998 the level of water in Lake Mead has dropped by about 5.6 trillion gallons.

#16 A federal judge has ruled that the state of Georgia has very few legal rights to Lake Lanier, and since Lake Lanier is the main water source for the city of Atlanta that presents quite a problem.

#17 It has been estimated that the state of California only has a 20 year supply of fresh water left.

#18 It has been estimated that the state of New Mexico only has a 10 year supply of fresh water left.

#19 Approximately 40 percent of all rivers in the United States and approximately 46 percent of all lakes in the United States have become so polluted that they are are no longer fit for human use.

#20 Eight states in the Great Lakes region have signed a pact banning the export of water from the Great Lakes to outsiders – even to other U.S. states.

Unfortunately, it is not just the United States that is facing a shortage of fresh water in the near future.  The reality is that most of the rest of the world is in far worse shape than we are.  Just consider the following stats….

-According to the United Nations, the world is going to need at least 30 percent more fresh water by the year 2030.

-Global demand for fresh water tripled during the last century, and is now increasing faster than ever before.

-According to USAID, one-third of the people on earth will be facing severe or chronic water shortages by the year 2025.

-Of the 60 million people added to the cities of the world each year, the vast majority of them live in deeply impoverished areas that have no sanitation facilities whatsoever.

-It has been estimated that 75 percent of all surface water in India has been heavily contaminated by human or agricultural waste.

-Sadly, according to one UN study on sanitation, far more people in India have access to a cell phone than to a toilet.

-Every 8 seconds, somewhere in the world a child dies from drinking dirty water.

-Due to a lack of water, Saudi Arabia has given up on trying to grow wheat and will be 100 percent dependent on wheat imports by the year 2016.

-Each year in northern China, the water table drops by an average of about one meter due to severe drought and overpumping, and the size of the desert increases by an area equivalent to the state of Rhode Island.

-In China, 80 percent of the major rivers have become so horribly polluted that they do not support any aquatic life at all at this point.

-In sub-Saharan Africa, drought has become a way of life.  Collectively, the women of South Africa walk the equivalent of the distance to the moon and back 16 times a day just to get water.

It has been said that “water is the new gold”, and unfortunately we are getting close to a time when that may actually be true.

Without water, none of us could survive for long.  Just try not using water for anything for 12 hours some time.  It is a lot harder than you may think.

We can’t grow our food in a pile of dust.  Unfortunately, many areas of the heartland of America are slowly but surely heading in that direction.

History tells us that it is only a matter of time before dust bowl conditions return to the central United States.  We have used irrigation and other technologies to delay the inevitable, but in the end it cannot be stopped.

Let us hope that the return of dust bowl conditions can be put off for as long as possible, but let us also prepare diligently for the worst.



63 Comments
  1. efarmer says:

    Admin,

    When I read this earlier I had two reactions. Yawn. Smile. Heard it before. Long ago.

    Will we have a drought again? Absolutely. Cycles say we will. Is it dry in west Texas and Okie? Yep. What do they grow where it is dry right now? Sagebrush. The areas that plant corn in Texas are complaining about too much moisture.

    The guys in Nebraska that I am in contact with constantly monitor their wells in the aquifer. They are required to. Those wells fluctuate all the time. Some are rising. How can that happen when we are draining it !?!

    Remember last year when we were all going to starve because of ethanol? Did it happen? No. Why? Because the market and the farmer took care of the shortage by growing more than we need. Barring something unforeseen, we will have a glut of corn this fall and won’t have places to put it. There are already piles everywhere.

    Let the market work. Hang Jon Corzine. We’ll die of war or disease or government intervention (my worst fear) way before we run out of food. Now whether the food will be distributed after economic collapse is another matter! Michelle scares the crap out of me sometimes.

    EF

    BTW, I googled plentiful food and this pic came up. It was better than the one I was looking for.

    DSC_0394.jpg

    4th March 2012 at 11:09 am

  2. DaveL says:

    The oceans are full of water. We will evolve into seagulls and the problem will be solved.

    4th March 2012 at 11:12 am

  3. Administrator says:

    Nice pair of Aquafiers. I don’t think they’ll run dry.

    4th March 2012 at 11:31 am

  4. stevie says:

    Admin

    THEY could if we all suckle at the same time?

    4th March 2012 at 11:43 am

  5. TeresaE says:

    This article contains just enough truth to sound completely realistic. Except there are also enough blaring twists of the truth to make me doubt it.

    Many of the points are made using naturally arid states, so, no kidding. Amazing that we humans subvert nature, then are shocked that nature wins. No shit.

    Which is the exact reason why the great lakes signed the pact. Destroying the largest American (lower 48) fresh water source to throw good water after bad.

    And the water sent to LA& Vegas is most definitely not being used for agriculture.

    Karma’s a bitch.
    So, are the laws of nature.

    4th March 2012 at 12:10 pm

  6. Muck About says:

    @TE: +1

    MA

    4th March 2012 at 12:31 pm

  7. IndenturedServant says:

    -In sub-Saharan Africa, drought has become a way of life. Collectively, the women of South Africa walk the equivalent of the distance to the moon and back 16 times a day just to get water.

    My bullshit meter peaked on a few of these facts but the one quoted above takes the cake. In round numbers it is 250,000 miles to the moon or 500,000 there and back. They collectively walk EIGHT MILLION MILES PER DAY? That is THREE BILLION MILES PER YEAR! If this were true it would constitute a “migration” that could be seen from space.

    I’d love to see the women of our FSA live there and endure this everyday.
    I_S

    4th March 2012 at 12:50 pm

  8. SSS says:

    Holy shit. How did we get from the Ogallala Aquifer to women in Africa walking for water?

    My bullshit meter pegged right off the bat with this statement in the article, “The following are 20 signs that dust bowl conditions will soon return to the heartland of America….

    #1 The Ogallala Aquifer is being drained at a rate of approximately 800 gallons per minute.”

    So what? The Ogallala Aquifer covers 174,000 square miles and contains 3 BILLION acre-feet of water. 1 acre-foot is exactly 325,851 gallons of water.

    Do the math. At the rate of 800 gallons a minute, the Ogallala Aquifer will be dry in 2,300,000 years. And that’s assuming NO natural recharge.

    I don’t know about you, but I’m not losing any sleep over this. More comments to follow.

    4th March 2012 at 3:09 pm

  9. stevie says:

    SSS

    Now that deserves a thumbs up.

    4th March 2012 at 3:16 pm

  10. SSS says:

    Facts the article didn’t mention.

    The entire state of Nebraska and a small portion of southeastern Wyoming are in fat city vis a vis the Ogallala Aquifer, which runs up to 400 feet deep over tens of thousands of square miles. Nebraska will NEVER run out of water for its agriculture.

    If the states of Colorado and Kansas ever stop suing the shit out of each other over water rights to the Arkansas River and start using their collective heads for something other than a hat rack, then a lot of water problems in eastern Colorado and western Kansas could be solved. Item: recycling municipal waste water to recharging ponds/pits for the Ogallala Aquifer. Item: building canals from the Arkansas River to reservoirs (for use when the snowpack on the east side of the Continental Divide is above normal and thus increase the flow rate of the river).

    Western Oklahoma and the northern panhandle of Texas, where a lot of cotton is grown, need to start using better irrigation methods. Yes, it’s more expensive, but covered irrigation canals run at nearly 100% efficiency in their use of water. No loss to evaporation. Or the farmers can switch to less water-intensive crops such as sunflowers.

    Now, what other problems may I solve for you?

    4th March 2012 at 3:40 pm

  11. flash says:

    trending…I’m Googling plentiful food.
    Thanks efarmer…

    4th March 2012 at 4:53 pm

  12. llpoh says:

    SSS says “Western Oklahoma and the northern panhandle of Texas, where a lot of cotton is grown, need to start using better irrigation methods.”

    I rarely disagree with SSS, but that is crap. Cotton and its water sucking brethren rice should never be grown in areas like that. NEVER. Fuck good irrigation practices. A quick google found that you need 400 gallons of water to grow the cotton for a T-shirt, and this quote “One t-shirt made from conventional cotton represents 2700 (i.e. 700 gallons) liters of water, and a third of a pound of chemicals”.

    And we grow this shit in a desert? Fuck that, no matter how efficient the water usage is. Cotton needs to be grown where there is plentiful rainfall, not out in the middle of a fucking desert.

    4th March 2012 at 5:06 pm

  13. efarmer says:

    Ilpoh,

    400 gallons of water to grow the cotton for a t-shirt?? Ha, ha ha ha. Good one.

    Good grief.

    EF

    4th March 2012 at 5:59 pm

  14. SSS says:

    llpoh

    Did I say I agreed with growing cotton in the desert or semi-arid climates? Don’t think so. Or did I say, “Or the farmers can switch to less water-intensive crops such as sunflowers.” Why, yes I did.

    Look, we can’t tell farmers what crops to raise on THEIR land when there was plenty of water below THEIR land way back when. Now, in certain places, THEIR water supply is depleted. They’ll have to adjust. Agree? Or are you suggesting that the government should somehow get involved and really fuck up the situation?

    4th March 2012 at 6:09 pm

  15. llpoh says:

    SSS – water below their land isn’t their water – it is our water. Water is a resource that ultimately must be managed. For instance, we could not allow one farmer to drain an entire aquifier simply because a piece of the aquifier was under his farm. No you didn’t say you agreed, but your comment was somewhat unclear, and lead me, reasonably, to the conclusion I made. Your clarification is appreciated.

    E-farmer – what is your point? Are you suggesting the info I have sourced/provided is wrong? If so, please clarify, and provide your info. Or are you saying that it is indeed ridiculous to use 400 gallons of water to grow enough cotton to make a t-shirt?

    4th March 2012 at 6:21 pm

  16. Zara says:

    800 gallons per minute is nothing. A few circle pivots can put that out easily. While in general, the article is probably right, once I see one bullshit stat, I question them all.

    4th March 2012 at 6:28 pm

  17. llpoh says:

    Table 5 APPROXIMATE VALUES OF SEASONAL CROP WATER NEEDS

    Crop

    Crop water need
    (mm/total growing period)

    Alfalfa 800-1600

    Banana 1200-2200

    Barley/Oats/Wheat 450-650

    Bean 300-500

    Cabbage 350-500

    Citrus 900-1200

    Cotton 700-1300

    Maize 500-800

    Melon 400-600

    Onion 350-550

    Peanut 500-700

    Pea 350-500

    Pepper 600-900

    Potato 500-700

    Rice (paddy) 450-700

    Sorghum/Millet 450-650

    Soybean 450-700

    Sugarbeet 550-750

    Sugarcane 1500-2500

    Sunflower 600-1000

    Tomato 400-800

    West Texas/Oklahoma get about 15-20 inches of rainfall per year. Cotton requires around 30 inches of rain/irrigation, in just a few months, and it requires it in the hottest, least rainy months. It sucks up a lot of water.

    4th March 2012 at 6:39 pm

  18. Persnickety says:

    There’s a lot of bullshit and half-truth here. Glad y’all picked up on it, but you’re missing the most important thing. That the Ogallala aquifer is not actually all that important. Yes, it’s huge, yes, it’s being depleted rapidly and many areas reliant on it are already SOL. But it sits under and supplies only the western high plains (not as far west as most of Colorado) and an area that while it sees some conventional row cropping, also sees a lot of ranching and just plain nothing. You can forget about irrigated rowcropping in that area going forward, but they can still do dryland farming, ranching, and a few other things, or do nothing as has been the main use of that area for all but a brief blip in the historical record.

    The hugely important ag areas of the midwest are farther east and do not rely on the Ogallala aquifer. In many cases they have their own issues of water depletion and quality, but they are not running out of water.

    4th March 2012 at 7:14 pm

  19. Persnickety says:

    Here is the end of all things (not):

    300px-Ogallala_changes_1980-1995.svg.png

    4th March 2012 at 7:16 pm

  20. Kill Bill says:

    This doesnt take into effect the amount of water needed by cattle.

    Drive thru Hereford [Texas] the amount of cattle there, as the amount of grain feed, will astound you, as me.

    4th March 2012 at 9:56 pm

  21. crazyivan says:

    llpoh-

    “Table 5 APPROXIMATE VALUES OF SEASONAL CROP WATER NEEDS

    Crop

    Crop water need
    (mm/total growing period)”

    What the fuck is this?

    mm/total growing period.

    What?

    WTF is a mm. Minnie Mouse, Miky Mantle,…

    You sir are a tard.

    4th March 2012 at 10:58 pm

  22. Kill Bill says:

    Swerve Ivan Swerve!

    4th March 2012 at 11:00 pm

  23. SSS says:

    Llpoh said, “SSS – water below their land isn’t their water – it is our water. Water is a resource that ultimately must be managed.”

    Are you shitting me? What the fuck Stalinist statement is “OUR water”? Who is “our”? You, me, Admin, SNAP card holders, the homeless bum under the bridge? Define our.

    If you own a piece of land, and there is water under your land, it’s YOUR fucking water. If it happens to be an aquifer, yes, there may be reasonable limits placed on your usage of the water, as I’m sure applies to use of the Ogallala Aquifer. But the fucking water belongs to the people who own the land above the aquifer. Period.

    And water IS highly managed in this country. What municipality doesn’t have a water authority? I happen to believe that the U.S. manages its water resources better than any other country in the world. And there isn’t even a close second.

    One more thing. Take a look at that aquifer map posted by Snick. See that dark blue squiggly area (signifying INCREASES in the quantity of the water in the aquifer) in the southwestern part of the Texas panhandle? Guess what, sport? That’s an area where huge amounts of cotton are grown. I know for certain. I’ve driven through there. Cotton fields out your ass, left and right, for as far as the eye can see.

    4th March 2012 at 11:09 pm

  24. Kill Bill says:

    Bravo SSS

    A rare medium well done.

    4th March 2012 at 11:24 pm

  25. SSS says:

    Crazyivan said to llpoh, “You sir are a tard.”

    Over the top, Crazy. Llpoh is anything but a retard. He’s extremely bright and savvy, but a little rough around the edges on water issues.

    4th March 2012 at 11:35 pm

  26. crazyivan says:

    yeah,

    he was just being rambunctious.

    clueless also.

    4th March 2012 at 11:46 pm

  27. llpoh says:

    SSS – what is your fucking point re cotton, sport? My first opinion seems to be correct – you are all for growing cotton in a desert. That is horseshit of the highest order. What is next – rice? Make up your mind.

    Also – if someone can limit the use of something – i.e. restrict how much water you can take – ipso facto you do not in fact own it. You may have rights to some of it – but not all of it. The fucker with the biggest straw simply has no right to suck it all out of an aquifier. So therefore it is our water, not their water, and must be preserved and maintained for the public good.

    Of course farmers do not own the water in an aquifier. It is our water. Define “our” any way you want, sport. I am not arguing they do not have water rights, but they do not own the water a such.

    The current restrictions in Texas are as follows, owing to a fear that the aquifier is being depleted, given it replenishes itself at .1% per year.

    “For irrigators in the High Plains Water District, the pumping cap for 2012 and 2013 is set at 1.75 acre-feet per acre per year. It drops to 1.5 acre-feet for 2014 and 2015, and then to 1.25 acre-feet per acre for 2016 and subsequent years.” That means they can irrigate 18 inches per year. It also means that farmers do NOT own the water. The have some water rights, which are not fixed but which vary.

    Water will be a major issue soon. People like Pickens are attempting to buy up/corner the market on aquifier water rights so as to pipe the water around at a profit.

    Gee, SSS and I fighting. That is rare.

    4th March 2012 at 11:53 pm

  28. llpoh says:

    SSS – thanks for defending me against Ivan’s assault. I am not rough around the edges, tho. My wife says I am a polished gem. She is an astute judge of gems, I might add.

    4th March 2012 at 11:56 pm

  29. llpoh says:

    BTW – I may permanently adopt the term “sport” when debating folks I like. It is a nice substitute for “douchebag, asshat, dipshit, etc.” used when debating those that I do not. I will, of course, credit SSS as it is his copyright.

    comic-06.jpg

    5th March 2012 at 12:06 am

  30. llpoh says:

    Sensetti – right. Sorry, I should have stayed on topic.

    5th March 2012 at 12:22 am

  31. AKAnon says:

    That is one smokin’ pair of, uh… topics.

    5th March 2012 at 12:34 am

  32. flash says:

    @SSS-
    Unlike cotton hemp does not have a high water requirement and cures cancer.
    http://dotsub.com/media/fc4e051a-1709-4e63-8a2c-912b09486c9f/embed/eng

    I’m jus sayin’…

    Hemp ,smokin’..
    pi_16582.jpeg

    5th March 2012 at 6:21 am

  33. stevie says:

    Lollypop the SOCIALIST

    So let me get your thinking here.

    I bought a Gold mine with water rights. I paid a certain price because it has those rights, these rights are worth so much in dollar terms, they are assets of the property.

    Now you are saying that the water is yours why not the gold too?

    You must not own anything

    You Fucking Putz

    5th March 2012 at 9:24 am

  34. stevie says:

    Hey lolly

    I figured it out….you belong to the Free Shit Army

    5th March 2012 at 9:49 am

  35. stevie says:

    There seems to be a death in the FAMILY….no response?

    5th March 2012 at 10:56 am

  36. Colma Rising says:

    Stevie, having been roasted raw over the weekend returns to show his mental midgetry.

    For starters, Stevie The Gimp makes a grievous error in refering to llpoh as anything but Captain.

    Next, Stevie The Gimp continues his moronic line of discourse by saying Socialist in reference to llpoh.

    Finally, the greatest error is Stevie The Gimp’s ignorance about Resource Rights and Private Property.

    In short, Gimp, no you do not own the minerals, water or any sizeable resource perched in or on your land. That is more than established in case law as far back as any. You cannot dam a creek that flows through your land and deprive low-lying land of water… If a coal company owns rights to your coal, they can and do tunnel right under you to take it and can and will sue your ass should you lay a hand on their coal.

    Socialism? Well, perhaps it has similarity, but the government in this case manages rights for private parties to extract. Just one of those things… like stoplights, airspace and many other things the various layers of government have been delegated management of.

    Back to the basement, Stevie…

    5th March 2012 at 11:54 am

  37. stevie says:

    Coma

    Do some research on “Patented Mines” and get back to me.

    5th March 2012 at 12:01 pm

  38. Persnickety says:

    In all seriousness, I’m wondering if “stevie” is a new persona of the troll who was originally “DaveL.” “DaveL” now seems to be acting somewhat less troll-like, which may well be just a ruse to try and gain acceptance here in order to do other stupid things later – probably less blatant things.

    The “stevie” persona is at a whole new level of stupid. Bot, perhaps? I don’t think teenagers come that stupid. Both here and at zerohedge I’m seeing a flood of stupid trolling posts, mostly from relatively new users, and it all ties in well with all the stuff I’m reading about paid trolling / propaganda trolling, with software to allow one asshole to adopt multiple personas with distinct (spoofed) IP addresses.

    Jim, you should be flattered that TBP is deemed dangerous and important enough to attract the psyops folks.

    Chances of llpoh being a socialist <0.0.

    5th March 2012 at 12:33 pm

  39. Persnickety says:

    Here’s some links to the type of tactic I’m talking about:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2011/03/18/u-s-government-writes-software-to-enable-squads-of-propaganda-comment-trolls/

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All

    http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=201544.0

    I’m not saying that the US military is here on TBP or could give a rat’s ass about most TBP topics. However, the technique and software isn’t all that exotic or difficult, and I’m sure many non-military governmental departments, many private organizations of various kinds, and of course foreign agencies could all be in on this type of game. The TBP trolls (assuming paid) would most likely be from some private contractor in the US, perhaps being paid by a political organization, bank, or bank lobbying organization.

    5th March 2012 at 12:41 pm

  40. stevie says:

    Still no educated response or is that?

    5th March 2012 at 1:19 pm

  41. stevie says:

    Are all you guys paranoid?

    5th March 2012 at 2:14 pm

  42. llpoh says:

    Persnick – good thoughts. Colma – ni-i-i-i-ce. Very nice.

    My point re water is specific to aquifier. Aquifier is a community resource texas law on this is somewhat muddled, as it grew out of a combo of Mexican/American law. Neverttheless something as important to the whole country needs to be protected and managed for the good of the people as a whole. And colma is quite right re esrablished law re minerals and water and watercourses. You cannot simply do as you please with that stuff.

    I woukd not suggest the farmers do not have water rights. We desperately need farmers to grow stuff. But to allow them to grow cotton or rice or similar in the desert simply because they have access to the aquifier is insane if the aquifier in fact can be depleted – which is something I do not know for sure. What is clear is that the water management board in that area believes the aquifier is being depleted faster than it is being replenished. I suspect they are well informed.

    Poor Stevie. Still not getting the help he needs.

    5th March 2012 at 3:41 pm

  43. newsjunkie says:

    Research “Weather as a Force Multiplier”. Interesting info regarding the Air Force use of weather modification.

    http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm

    5th March 2012 at 4:12 pm

  44. Colma Rising says:

    Snicks: I doubt that… I simply believe that stevie’s a moron.

    5th March 2012 at 5:00 pm

  45. stevie says:

    coma

    I give you good information and what do you do with it?

    And I’m the stupid one right.

    WHAT A DUMB FUCK

    5th March 2012 at 5:31 pm

  46. SSS says:

    llpoh

    I’ve got a real problem with your attitude about what farmers should or should not be growing in this, that, or whatever climate or topography. Let’s start with a cold, hard fact. After the Ogallala Aquifer, the 2nd largest aquifer in the U.S. is in ……… southern Arizona.

    Tucson sits of the eastern edge of this aquifer and is a metropolis of just shy of 1 million people. The metro area gets its water mainly from 200 wells sunk into the aquifer. Another source is the Central Arizona Project (Colorado River), but much of that water goes to agriculture or is used to recharge the aquifer. There are wells in the center of town that are actually increasing in content due

    5th March 2012 at 6:21 pm

  47. SSS says:

    Goddamn it. Fucking WordPress.

    due to better conservation practices. Want to know how fucking deep that aquifer water is? 250-350 feet!!!

    South and north of Tucson are some seriously large pecan tree groves which suck up water like nobody’s business. Then there are the cotton fields northwest of Tucson and along Interstate 8 to San Diego in some of the nastiest desert in the world. They were fallow a few years ago, but the price of cotton, as you know, has skyrocketed. And this is Pima Cotton, some of the world’s finest. Did I mention the alfalfa and hay fields out in the middle of nowhere to feed the cattle on ranchs? Some of the water for that agricultural activity comes from the aquifer and some from the Colorado River.

    Would you block that activity just because it’s being done in the desert, where the nutrients in the soil are off the chart, BTW? Well, would you?

    5th March 2012 at 6:34 pm

  48. llpoh says:

    SSS – if aquifiers are not depleting I couldn’t care less what is being done with the water or what farmers grow. However, it appears that a lot of folks in charge of the aquifier we are talking about believes it is in fact depleting, and significantly depleting (or they would not have implemented restrictions). If it is depleting, then for the public good it must be controlled and water-intensive crops need to be directed to areas (Mississippi comes to mnid for cotton) so as to conserve what is a public and essential resource. My opinion, anyway.

    5th March 2012 at 6:35 pm

  49. llpoh says:

    SSS – I also suggest that growing meat will become a luxury the world will struggle to afford. Meat chews up a lot of arable land and is a non-efficient calory producer. Markets will sort that out soon enough. As I just said, if the aquifiers are not depleting, then they can do what they want. Otherwise, it will need restrictions.

    5th March 2012 at 6:39 pm

  50. Administrator says:

    llpoh

    Are you going to take that from that mangy cur SSS?

    5th March 2012 at 6:41 pm

  51. Administrator says:

    SSS

    Are you going to take that from that mangy cur llpoh?

    5th March 2012 at 6:42 pm

  52. efarmer says:

    Admin,

    Are you a mediator in your spare time?

    EF

    5th March 2012 at 6:45 pm

  53. Stucky says:

    “I’ve got a real problem with your attitude about what farmers should or should not be growing ” — sss

    What if the farmer wants to grow …. gasp, marijuana? (I’m betting your passion for “right to grow” goes right out the window. lol)

    5th March 2012 at 6:45 pm

  54. LLPOH says:

    Admin – SSS and I have developed codewords so as to keep the rest of the TBPers from knowing just how brutally we are sluggling it out. “Sport” I defined above. SSS’s “I have a real problem with …” translates loosely to “now listen up you ignorant ball-sack”, while my “I couldn’t care less” means roughly that “your ridiculous, asinine, poorly thought out shit-for brains comments are duly ignored”.

    Try and keep up, will you. A real blood-bath is going on, if you know what to look for.

    5th March 2012 at 6:48 pm

  55. sensetti says:

    Speaking of the Colorado river, major water problems shaping up for Vegas

    Clock is Ticking on Las Vegas’ Water Supply

    The news coming from the Southern Nevada Water Authority Thursday about the valley’s future water supply is worrisome. Unless we act quickly, there will be no water for hundreds of thousands of Las Vegas Valley residents in just three years.
    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/6943263/clock-is-ticking-on-las-vegas-water-supply

    5th March 2012 at 7:00 pm

  56. Stucky says:

    llpoh

    Your “code word” post is one of the funniest posts you’ve ever written. I mean, REALLY good stuff there. Brought I huge grin to my face (Ms. Freud thought I was looking at porn. really.)

    5th March 2012 at 7:08 pm

  57. AKAnon says:

    @Sensetti-I will be in Vegas later this month. I’ll be sure to flush twice, just to help out the cause. We have lots of water in Alaska, suckas.

    5th March 2012 at 7:16 pm

  58. AKAnon says:

    But I should mention, it is frozen half the year.

    5th March 2012 at 7:16 pm

  59. stevie says:

    Well boys

    I tried to add some thought but you little fagots would rather just here yourselves talk about how fucking brilliant you THINK you are and dismiss any other thought but what your little world can spew out amongst this small group of non thinkers.

    Have fun in you little MINDLESS room.

    See ya, no time for this.

    5th March 2012 at 9:51 pm

  60. llpoh says:

    Stevie can’t spare the time off mommy’s teat.

    5th March 2012 at 10:01 pm

  61. SSS says:

    sensetti

    That link you provided is to an old article. The spring rains and heavy snowmelt in Colorado in 2011 RAISED the level of Lake Mead well over 46 feet. That’s a lot of water. Vegas is good to go for another 5-10 years. Don’t panic yet.

    flash and Stucky

    I’m fine with hemp. Fuck marijuana ……… and poppies and cocoa plants.

    stevie

    You need a thicker skin.

    Damn cursor is hopping all over the place when I type in comments. Anyone else having this problem?

    6th March 2012 at 5:41 pm

  62. llpoh says:

    SSS – now sport, do not go encouraging Stevie. It took a concerted effort to run him off, and here you are trying to draw him back in.

    Gee, I love this codeword stuff.

    6th March 2012 at 5:49 pm

  63. sensetti says:

    SSS

    I hate to hear Mead got that much water, I was hoping the dancing girls and desert beauties might migrate east……… Oh well.

    6th March 2012 at 6:57 pm

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