This is Part Three of a three part series trying to make sense of the Crisis period we entered in 2008. Click here to read: PART ONE or PART TWO

Seeking Regeneracy

“Soon after the catalyst, a national election will produce a sweeping political realignment, as one faction or coalition capitalizes on a new public demand for decisive action. Republicans, Democrats, or perhaps a new party will decisively win the long partisan tug of war. This new regime will enthrone itself for the duration of the Crisis. Regardless of its ideology, that new leadership will assert public authority and demand private sacrifice. Regardless of its ideology, that new leadership will assert public authority and demand private sacrifice. Where leaders had once been inclined to alleviate societal pressures, they will now aggravate them to command the nation’s attention. The regeneracy will be solidly under way.” – Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning





 The 2008 election happened in the midst of the catalyst events. A sweeping political realignment did not occur. In fact, the 2010 mid-term elections produced a result which has essentially gridlocked the political process in Washington D.C. The reunification and reenergizing of society has yet to occur. Neil Howe in his recent article pondered the question of regeneracy:

“We may like to imagine that there is a definable day and hour when America, faced by growing danger and adversity, explicitly decides to patch over its differences, band together, and build something new. But maybe what really happens is that everyone feels so numb that they let somebody in charge just go ahead and do whatever he’s got to do. I’m thinking of how America felt during the bleak years of FDR’s first term, or during Lincoln’s assumption of vast war powers after his repeated initial defeats on the battlefield.

The regeneracy cannot always be identified with a single news event. But it does have to mark the beginning of a growth in centralized authority and decisive leadership at a time of great peril and urgency. Typically, the catalyst itself doesn’t lead directly to a regeneracy. There has to be a second or third blow, something that seems a lot more perilous than just the election of third-party candidate (Civil War catalyst) or a very bad month in the stock market (Great Power catalyst). We are still due for such a moment. We have not yet reached our regeneracy. When it happens, I strongly suspect it will be in response to an adverse financial event. It may also happen in response to a geopolitical event. It may well happen over the next year or two.” Neil Howe – Dating the Fourth Turning

Regeneracy occurred within five years of the outset of the three previous Crisis periods in U.S. history. The historic year of 1776 saw the colonies come together and declare independence from Great Britain. Group solidarity and willingness to die for their cause launched an eight year war and ultimately the formation of a new republic. The Civil War regeneracy occurred after the Union debacle at Bull Run in 1861. The Washington aristocrats had treated the battle like a show, where they could bring a picnic lunch and be entertained by an entertaining skirmish between two armies. After the resounding bloody defeat Abraham Lincoln assumed dictatorial like powers over the North and ordered the immediate enlistment of a half a million soldiers. He assumed unprecedented powers of taxation, forced conscription, suspension of due process and showed a willingness to administer maximum destruction to his foes. This would be no picnic in the park, as 700,000 men died in the next three years. The regeneracy during the Great Depression/WWII Crisis occurred in 1933 with the election of Franklin Roosevelt. He immediately declared a bank holiday and confiscated all the gold in the country. In a flurry of executive orders and bills sent to Congress he rammed through his New Deal, assuming new and broader powers for the Federal government and Executive branch.

Based on these examples in American history it is clear we have not entered the regeneracy stage of this Crisis. Also based on history, it is likely to occur by the end of 2013. A second blow to our nation and our psyches is the only thing that could possibly bring together a deeply divided nation. The country was struck by a category 3 hurricane in 2008. We have been in the eye of the hurricane for the last two years and have grown complacent. The eye will pass over us in the next year and we will again be buffeted by hurricane force winds – except the hurricane has strengthened to a category 5 as the “solutions” to the storm will make part two far worse.  Those with a libertarian mindset are not likely to be happy with the Federal government and President taking on even greater powers in the coming years. The usurpation of more control over the citizens of this country in the last decade has been one of the major reasons for the ratcheting down of trust in our leaders. The upcoming presidential election will likely create the dynamic that propels the country into its regeneracy. If the next downward blow can be averted before the election, the country will end up with four more years of Obama. If the Crisis suddenly worsens before November, Romney assumes the mantle of Prophet Leader in January 2013.   

I agree with Neil Howe that the country’s reaction to an adverse financial event will be the likely regeneracy moment. The explosive mixture of the five D’s will provide the spark for the next phase: Debt; Derivatives; Default; Devaluation; and ultimately Depression. There is no way to deny the $15.6 trillion of debt this country has accumulated, with $10 trillion of it added since 2000. The debt ceiling of $16.4 trillion will be breached in October 2012 at the current rate of extreme spending. This should set up an interesting dynamic just prior to the November elections. A replay of the August 2011 showdown could be disastrous for Obama if the stock market were to crater again.



We are accumulating debt at a rate of $3.7 billion per day, or $154 million per hour. No politician of either party, other than Ron Paul, has any plan to even moderate the spending, let alone make actual cuts. The CBO projections rolled out by these congressional weasels aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. The National Debt is on track to surpass $20 trillion in 2015 and $25 trillion by 2018. And this is before the Medicare and Social Security costs blast into orbit in 2020. Kicking the can down the road works until math catches up with you. It is insane to believe we can dig ourselves out of this debt induced mess with more debt, but empires tend to act insanely in their death throes.

“In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.”Friedrich Nietzsche

Strauss & Howe made preparation recommendations back in 1997 that would have lessened the impact of this Crisis, but they fell on deaf ears. Their common sense suggestions included:

  •  Work to elevate moral and cultural standards. Toddlers with Tiaras and The Kardashians were not an elevation.
  • Shed and simplify the federal government by cutting back sharply on its size and scope.
  • All levels of government should prune legal, regulatory and professional thickets.
  • Politicians should define our challenges bluntly and stress duties over rights.
  • Require community teamwork to solve local problems without federal government intervention.
  • Treat children as the nation’s highest priority.
  • Tell future elders they will need to be more self-sufficient, save more, and expect fewer entitlements.
  • Shift government pension plans from defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans.
  • Begin to trim Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security benefits.
  • Raise the national savings rate, reduce consumption and work towards federal budget surpluses.
  • Expect the worst, conserve our forces, and be prepared for an epic struggle down the road.

I would reckon we went 0 for 11 on the preparation front. We took the exact opposite course in most cases. Each generation has their own crosses to bear. No one will escape the bitter gale force winds of this Crisis. Strauss and Howe must have had a crystal ball looking fifteen years into the future when they made this supposition:    

 “The Boomers’ old age will loom, exposing the thinness in private savings and the unsustainability of public promises. The 13ers will reach their make or break peak earning years, realizing at last that they can’t all be lucky exceptions to their stagnating average income. Millenials will come of age facing debts, tax burdens, and two tier wage structures that older generations will now declare intolerable.”

Thus far the older generations have refused to yield. They demand promises made be promises kept. The Boomers did not save enough to sustain themselves during their retirement. Many are entirely reliant upon Social Security and Medicare as their only savings and health insurance. Generation X is caught between aging parents and indebted jobless children. The Millenials are saddled with $1 trillion of student loan debt and few decent job opportunities. In prior Fourth Turnings the Prophet generation led and the Hero generation followed, doing the heavy lifting. This dynamic is yet to be realized during this Crisis. Maybe the regeneracy event will create this dynamic.

That event will likely be triggered by another debt crisis. Rogoff and Reinhart studied 44 countries over 200 years and concluded that once government debt exceeded 90% of GDP economic growth slowed and the likelihood of disaster rose dramatically.   

“Those who remain unconvinced that rising debt levels pose a risk to growth should ask themselves why, historically, levels of debt of more than 90% of GDP are relatively rare and those exceeding 120% are extremely rare. Is it because generations of politicians failed to realize that they could have kept spending without risk? Or, more likely, is it because at some point, even advanced economies hit a ceiling where the pressure of rising borrowing costs forces policy makers to increase tax rates and cut government spending, sometimes precipitously, and sometimes in conjunction with inflation and financial repression (which is also a tax)? Historical experience and early examination of new data suggest the need to be cautious about surrendering to “this-time-is-different” syndrome and decreeing that surging government debt isn’t as significant a problem in the present as it was in the past.”


On this date the U.S. debt to GDP ratio is 102%. Our debt accumulation is on automatic pilot and the national GDP is incapable of growing above 3%. Anyone with the most basic math skills (this excludes Wall Street economists, CNBC bimbo anchors, and Bernanke) can determine the ratio will pass 120% in 2015. This doesn’t even include the Fannie, Freddie, and Student Loan debt that are guaranteed by the Federal government, along with trillions of unfunded social program liabilities and state and local debts. In reality the true debt obligations of this country exceed 500% of GDP, as no politician plans to willingly renege on Medicare and Social Security promises made to voters who would boot them if they voted to cut these entitlements.

The linear thinking deniers of reality (Krugman) will use Japan as their example of a country whose debt ratio is above 200%, without disastrous consequences. I guess a 22 year recession is not considered disastrous. Japan has been able to fund themselves internally because their citizens had a 15% savings rate in and they have run gigantic trade surpluses for decades. That game is over and they will hit the wall in the near future. The savings rate in the U.S. is 3.7% and we run $550 billion trade deficits, or 3.7% of GDP. The United States has no advantages other than the U.S. dollar currently being regarded as the worldwide reserve currency. We are hanging our hat on being the best looking horse in the glue factory.

 trade deficit as gdp

The cracks in the façade are already painfully visible. The U.S. ran a $1.4 trillion deficit in 2009; $1.3 trillion in 2010; and $1.3 trillion in 2011. In the chart below you can see foreigners’ appetite for U.S. debt since 2007 has plunged. Maybe it has something to do with getting a negative real return by investing in U.S. Treasuries paying 2%. Maybe it has something to do with Ben Bernanke attempting to inflate away our debt burden. Maybe it has something to do with Congress and the President accelerating spending and creating massive deficits for as far as the eye can see. Maybe they are losing trust and confidence in the American Empire.   


In the last three years we have run $4 trillion in deficits and foreigners have only funded $1.4 trillion of that debt. That means someone else had to buy $2.6 trillion of our long term Treasuries. Some of it was funded by little old ladies and pension funds that are setting themselves up for enormous losses. The vast swath was purchased by Ben Bernanke with his QE for eternity programs. As foreigners rationally reduce their Treasury holdings and we continue to run $1.3 trillion deficits, Bernanke must keep buying the debt. This cycle will continue until we reach our Minsky Moment, then Strauss & Howe’s forecast will be realized:

“This might result in a Great Devaluation, a severe drop in the market price of most financial and real assets. This devaluation could be a short but horrific panic, a free-falling price in a market with no buyers. Or it could be a series of downward ratchets linked to political events that sequentially knock the supports out from under the residual popular trust in the system. As assets devalue, trust will further disintegrate, which will cause assets to devalue further, and so on.” Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

Who will buy our debt in the coming months and years? Europe is saturated with debt and doesn’t have the means to purchase our debt. Japan is a train wreck waiting to happen. China’s customers aren’t buying their crap, so their economic miracle is about to go in reverse. The Federal Reserve cannot buy $1 trillion of Treasury bonds per year forever without creating more speculative bubbles and raging inflation in the things people need to live. The Minsky Moment will be the point when the U.S. Treasury begins having funding problems due to the spiraling debt incurred in financing perpetual government deficits. At this point no buyer will be found to bid at 2% to 3% yields for U.S. Treasuries; consequently, a major sell-off will ensue leading to a sudden and precipitous collapse in market clearing asset prices and a sharp drop in market liquidity. In layman terms that means – the shit will hit the fan. The Federal Reserve and Treasury will be caught in their own web of lies. The only way to attract buyers will be to dramatically increase interest rates. Doing this in a country up to its eyeballs in debt will be suicide. We will abruptly know how it feels to be Greek.

Linear thinkers like Krugman and most of the mainstream media opinion leaders can’t fathom the possibility of a complete collapse of our economic system. Most of their little models and economic data points don’t even go back to the last Fourth Turning period. They make projections about a housing recovery based on historical data that starts in 1962. Housing sales linger at historical lows with mortgage rates at 4%. The entire housing market would cave in if mortgage rates reached 6%, where they were in 2008. The forty year average mortgage rate has been 9%. Everything about our economic system is abnormal. Even reversion to the mean would be disastrous. The Minsky Moment headed our way will not be a single uncorrelated event. The entire financial world is hopelessly entangled by the $700 trillion of derivatives that ensure mass destruction if one of the dominoes falls. This is the reason an otherwise inconsequential country like Greece had to be “saved”.

Everyone knows Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy are broke. One or more will eventually default on their debt. It is highly likely that a butterfly will flap its wings in Europe and cause a hurricane in the U.S. The default will spark a worldwide contagion as trust in a system of false promises disintegrates. China’s already crumbling real estate market will implode. As interest rates soar and stock markets plunge, global tensions will intensify. Continued oil supply constraints will be the cherry on top. Based on historical precedent, this is likely to strike before 2014 arrives. The wealth destruction and pain will be so intense a regeneracy will be at hand. Our very survival will feel at stake.   

“Eventually, all of America’s lesser problems will combine into one giant problem. The very survival of the society will feel at stake, as leaders lead and people follow. The emergent society may be something better, a nation that sustains its Framers’ visions with a robust new pride. Or it may be something unspeakably worse. The Fourth Turning will be a time of glory or ruin.” – Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

And here is the rub for those who argue for less government intervention in our lives. Which leaders will lead and who will follow? The actual events do not matter as much as how the people react to the events. Fourth Turnings are always chaotic and tumultuous. In the frenzied period during the next leg down, people will demand order. They will call for the government to do something. Obama or Romney will use the fear and uncertainty to assume more power over our lives. Executive orders, new legislation, and another stripping of our liberties will be attempted. How the generational cohorts react to these deeds will determine what happens next. There are 97 million Millenials, 83 million Generation X and 73 million Boomers. The Boomers hold most of the positions of power, but their credibility as leaders has been damaged by their actions over the last two decades.

How the Millenials react to Boomer commands will determine the course of this Fourth Turning. The great devaluation will provide our leaders the opportunity to address the structural imbalances that haunt our nation. They could force Wall Street bankers, shareholders and bondholders assume their losses. They could rewrite the social contract with all generations, balancing the needs of elders with the futures of our youth. They could dramatically scale back the military industrial complex. They could completely scrap the ridiculous tax code and shift from taxing income to taxing consumption. They could revamp our political system and remove money from the political process. They could choose to balance budgets and reduce the size of government. They could ask for proportional sacrifice from everyone in order to keep this ship from sinking. If you believe this will happen, I have nice home near an Iranian nuclear power plant I’d like to sell you.

The regeneracy does not mean the actions taken by our leaders will be wise, well thought out, rational or beneficial to all people. Many believe the actions taken by Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt during the previous Fourth Turning Crisis periods were detrimental, foolish, and enhanced the power of the state at the expense of liberty for the people. The leader when the regeneracy events strike is more likely to respond with more government control as the solution. He will invoke executive orders giving government control over important industries and crucial institutions. The government politician leaders will pick the winners and losers, with their cronies and contributors winning again. Dissent will not be acceptable. The NDAA will be invoked to imprison those who disagree with the mandates handed down by those in power. Congress would pass SOPA and lock down the internet and shutdown any websites they consider dangerous to their central authority. Lastly, with the biggest and baddest military machine on earth, the leader will attempt to rally the masses and distract them from our dire economic situation by seeking an external threat to confront. It just so happens that China is also in the midst of their own Fourth Turning. History has shown that armed confrontation is likely around the climax of the Crisis:    

“History offers even more sobering warnings: Armed confrontation usually occurs around the climax of Crisis. If there is confrontation, it is likely to lead to war. This could be any kind of war – class war, sectional war, war against global anarchists or terrorists, or superpower war. If there is war, it is likely to culminate in total war, fought until the losing side has been rendered nil – its will broken, territory taken, and leaders captured.” – Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

No one knows the exact events that will mark this Crisis period in our history. But there is no turning back. We’ve entered the Winter season and the beautiful calm days of autumn are long past. Nothing but turmoil, bitterness and sacrifice lie ahead. We entered this Winter of our discontent unprepared like the grasshopper in the fable. This has insured this Crisis will be far worse than it needed to be. The grasshoppers want solutions and easy answers to problems created over decades of ignorance, sloth, greed and stupidity. It’s too late. There are no easy answers and the solutions are all painful and bitter. This is not some theoretical exercise. This is the reality of our situation. I have three teenage sons and their futures depend on the outcome of this Crisis. I will do whatever it takes to support them. I will not allow them to be cannon fodder in some war for oil in the Middle East. If their future requires me to oppose a tyrannical government, so be it. If their future requires me to give up my Social Security and Medicare security blanket, so be it. If I have to die so they may live, so be it. There are no guarantees in this life. We get about 80 years on this planet to make a difference. The choices we make in the next few years will matter. Are you ready? I am.


“The seasons of time offer no guarantees. For modern societies, no less than for all forms of life, transformative change is discontinuous. For what seems an eternity, history goes nowhere – and then it suddenly flings us forward across some vast chaos that defies any mortal effort to plan our way there. The Fourth Turning will try our souls – and the saecular rhythm tells us much will depend on how we face up to that trial. The saeculum does not reveal whether the story will have a happy ending, but it does tell us how and when our choices will make a difference.” Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

Click here to read: PART ONE or PART TWO




  1. spot on! loved the book the fourth turning and your synopsis here is excelllent! (I wish the subject matter was brighter but this is where we find ourselves).

    I too am ready. (age 48) I hope!

  2. All three parts of this piece are tremendous. We are on the edge of the cliff. As a Gen X nomad, I am preparing myself for what is on the horizon. We are, in fact, in desperate times. There needs to be a sense of urgency in the people for them to survive. Until we can open enough eyes, the sheep will continue to stay in the pasture and graze. It is each of our responsibility, nay, our duty, to help our brothers and sisters cast off the chains of debt bondage. The bankers, (pronounced: Corporate whore slave traders) especially JP Morgan and HSBC, are financial terrorists that need to be black bagged and sent to gitmo. Only physical silver, a hearty home garden, and a solid local network will keep us alive during the coming paper ponzi scheme’s mathematically certain collapse. Thanks for posting this great information, and stop by and see us for like-minded information and commentary.

    Stack faster.


  3. Your articles leave my wheels a turnin’. First they depress me with the succinctly laid out destruction that awaits us in the next decade (yes, I know I’m being optimistic).

    Then they fill me with a sad hope and feeling of camaraderie.

    At least I am not alone in my thinking.

    At least my eyes are open.

    At least I am trying to “prepare” as best I can.

    At least I now feel blessed by everyday that I wake up and things remain “normal.”

    And I’m blessed to still be able to read the thought-provoking articles.

    Because at the rate the government is going, it isn’t going to be long before most things on my list end.

    Thanks Jim.

  4. Two A+ articles followed by a C. Short of a few Libertarians, I don’t know of any Americans who think Lincoln is anything short of a savior. “He saved the Union and abolished slavery.” To argue that a State does not have the right to preserve itself is simply silly. The other major flaw in this article is the failure to even mention the bloated military industrial congressional complex. I for one am not interested in giving up a penny of my earned benefits until I see some shared sacrifice. You are certainly not going to convince anyone else unless you can give point to cuts for EVERYONE. Tax cuts for the rich, increased defense spending and reductions in Social Security is a non starter for most.

    Overall, between the 3 articles, I’ll give you a solid B+.

    1. weinerdog

      I really don’t care what grade you give me. Your comprehension skills get a D as I DID say the military industrial complex should be cut.

      I need to attract brighter readers.

  5. Admin: These works are nothing short of BADASS!

    It’s going to be interesting, for certain…. and folks like the Weiner will find a newfound misery if they resist the flow of the season.

    Trust must be restored in an institution…. and that means purging the corrupt and untrustworthy. Soundbites and hot-buttons must give way to leveling with the citizenry and rolling up our sleeves.

    The metaphorical silos are empty and there is no choice but to forage for survival.

    Survival. It may well take on it’s long forgotten meaning and that’s when what we see in the mirror becomes friend or foe.

    Again… outstanding. Love it.

  6. Bingo: weinerdog43

    ” To argue that a State does not have the right to preserve itself is simply silly.”

    That is the exact argument they are going to use when TPTB take away all your freedoms while shutting down the net and making slaves of us all.

  7. A tour de force, Admin! BRAVO

    ” To argue that a State does not have the right to preserve itself is simply silly.”

    There is a compelling document that starts out: “When, in the course of human events…” Some sort of declaration concerning the right of the people to remake, retake or replace the government as needed. I believe it has jusrisdiction in these here parts!

  8. Fourth Turnings are always chaotic and tumultuous. In the frenzied period during the next leg down, people will demand order. They will call for the government to do something. Obama or Romney will use the fear and uncertainty to assume more power over our lives.

    Damn good read, Jim.

    FWIW , the last three regeneracies were no friend to indivdual liberty and I suspect neither will the next be.
    Personally I think Truman did more to expand the Global Police State -via fearmongering – than FDR. If FDR began the regeneracy then Truman was the pink hitter who slammed it home,
    Good read on Truman here:
    ‘World-Conquest’ Red Alert

    Nineteen forty-eight was a decisive year in the cold war. There was great reluctance in the conservative Eightieth Congress to comply with Truman’s program, which included funding for the European Recovery Act (Marshall Plan), resumption of the draft, and Universal Military Training (UMT). To deal with this resistance, the administration concocted the war scare of 1948.

    The first pretext came in February, with the so-called Communist coup in Czechoslovakia. But Czechoslovakia, for all intents and purposes, was already a Soviet satellite. Having led the Czechs in the “ethnic cleansing” of 3.5 million Sudeten Germans, the Communists enjoyed great popularity. In the general elections, they won 38 percent of the vote, constituting by far the largest single party. The American ambassador reported to Washington that Communist consolidation of power in early 1948 was the logical outgrowth of the Czech-Soviet military alliance dating back to 1943. George Marshall himself, in private, stated that “as far as international affairs are concerned,” the formal Communist assumption of power made no difference: it would merely “crystallize and confirm for the future previous Czech policy.”25 Still, the Communist “coup” was painted as a great leap forward in Stalin’s plan for “world conquest.”

    Then, on March 5, came the shocking letter from General Lucius Clay, U.S. military governor in Germany, to General Stephen J. Chamberlin, head of Army Intelligence, in which Clay revealed his foreboding that war “may come with dramatic suddenness.” Years later, when Clay’s biographer asked him why, if he sensed an impending war, this was the only reference he ever made to it, he replied:

    General Chamberlin . . . told me that the Army was having trouble getting the draft reinstituted and they needed a strong message from me that they could use in congressional testimony. So I wrote this cable.26

    On March 11, Marshall solemnly warned in a public address that: “The world is in the midst of a great crisis.” Averell Harriman asserted:

    There are aggressive forces in the world coming from the Soviet Union which are just as destructive as Hitler was, and I think are a greater menace than Hitler was.27

    And so Harriman laid down the Hitler card, which was to become the master trump in the globalist propaganda hand for the next half-century and most likely for centuries to come.

    Taft, campaigning for the Republican presidential nomination, was angered by the war hysteria drummed up by the administration:

    I know of no indication of Russian intention to undertake military aggression beyond the sphere of influence that was originally assigned to them [at Yalta]. The situation in Czechoslovakia was indeed a tragic one, but Russian influence has predominated there since the end of the war.

    Taft tried to introduce a note of sanity: “If President Truman and General Marshall have any private intelligence” regarding imminent war, “they ought to tell the American people about it.” Otherwise, we should proceed on “the basis of peace.”28

    In reality, the administration had no such “private intelligence,” hence the need to stage-manage Clay’s letter. On the contrary, Colonel Robert B. Landry, Truman’s air aide, reported that in their zone in eastern Germany, the Russians had dismantled hundreds of miles of railroad track and shipped it home – in other words, they had torn up the very railroads required for any Soviet attack on western Europe.29 Field Marshal Montgomery, after a trip to Russia in 1947, wrote to General Eisenhower: “The Soviet Union is very, very tired. Devastation in Russia is appalling, and the country is in no fit state to go to war.”30 Today it would be very difficult to find any scholar willing to subscribe to Truman’s frenzied vision of a Soviet Union about to set off to conquer the world. As John Lewis Gaddis wrote:

    Stalin is now seen as a cagey but insecure opportunist, taking advantage of such tactical opportunities as arose to expand Soviet influence, but without any long-term strategy for or even very much interest in promoting the spread of communism beyond the Soviet sphere.31

    The nonexistence of Soviet plans to launch an attack on Europe holds for the entire cold war period. One scholar in the field concludes:

    despite the fact that the Russian archives have yielded ample evidence of Soviet perfidy and egregious behavior in many other spheres, nothing has turned up to support the idea that the Soviet leadership at any time actually planned to start World War III and send the “Russian hordes” westward.32

    So why the war scare in 1948? In a 1976 interview, looking back on this period, Air Force Brigadier General Robert C. Richardson, who served at NATO headquarters in the early 1950s, candidly admitted:

    there was no question about it, that [Soviet] threat that we were planning against was way overrated and intentionally overrated, because there was the problem of reorienting the [U.S.] demobilization . . . [Washington] made this nine-foot-tall threat out there. And for years and years it stuck. I mean, it was almost immovable.33

    Yet, anyone who doubted the wisdom of the administration’s militaristic policy was targeted for venomous smears. According to Truman, Republicans who opposed his universal crusade were “Kremlin assets,” the sort of traitors who would shoot “our soldiers in the back in a hot war,” a good example of Truman’s acclaimed “plain speaking.”34,35 Averell Harriman charged that Taft was simply helping Stalin carry out his aims. The New York Times and the rest of the establishment press echoed the slanders. Amusingly, Republican critics of the war hysteria were labeled pro-Soviet even by journals like The New Republic and The Nation, which had functioned as apologists for Stalin’s terror-regime for years.

    In the end, the part of Truman’s legacy with the greatest potential for harm is NATO. Allegedly created in response to a (nonexistent) Soviet threat to overrun Europe, it has already outlived the Soviet Union and European communism by a decade. At the beginning of the new century, there is no possibility that this entrenched military and civilian bureaucratic apparatus will simply fade away. When did such a huge collection of functionaries ever surrender their lucrative, tax-funded positions without a revolution?

    In the course of NATO’s aggression against Yugoslavia – illegal, according to the U.S. Constitution, the Charter of the United Nations, and NATO’s own charter – its mission has been “redefined.” No longer merely a defensive alliance (against whom?), it will now roam the world, a law unto itself, perpetually “in search of monsters to destroy.” In 1951, General Eisenhower, then supreme Allied commander in Europe, stated: “If in ten years time, all American troops stationed in Europe for national defense purposes have not been returned to the United States, then this whole project [NATO] will have failed.”81 A growing threat to the independence, the well-being, and the very lives of the peoples of the world, NATO may turn out in the end to have been Truman’s greatest failure.

    There are also episodes in Truman’s presidency that have been forgotten in the rush to certify him as a “near-great” but that should not go unmentioned. Among the more notable ones:

    1. 55 Fourth Turning books were bought in the last two days by readers. At least a few more people will be prepared.

  9. Thanks for taking the time ti think about and write these very important articles.
    You wrote about many obligations, which are not now reflected as liabilities on the balance sheet, such as future obligations for Social Security and Medicare.
    The FASAB is the accounting advisor for the federal government.
    I find it interesting how the FASAB views these “obligations.”
    From a paper entitled “Accounting for Social Insurance, Revised, Nov., 2008:”
    Page 35 “Social insurance benefits are not guaranteed or contractual, or advance funded, or promised. Social insurance benefits are not part of an exchange but rather are a welfare program and/or an annual general fund like Medicaid and defense – which are as likely as social insurance but for which early accrual is not proposed.
    Don Levit

    1. Don

      The Federal Government could legislate Medicare and Social Security out of existence today. That is why the unfunded liabilities aren’t counted as debt. Are we more likely to stiff the Chinese or our elderly? The Medicare & SS liabilities are debt.

  10. Can i ask Strauss & Howe to do some research regarding Dajjal (Antichrist) and the Islamic view of Gog and Magog in the modern world by Imran N Hosein please.

    The above is relevant and can possibly aid your understanding further as we believe that Gold and Silver is Money. The Prophet has told us this and we believe paper money is fraudelent and we understand that paper money will soon be replaced with a new currency . When the Dollar collapses, it wil take down all of paper money with it.

    Our belief is that Dajjal will live on earth fo 40 days. 1 day like a Year, 1 day like a month and 1 day like a week. The rest of his days will be like our days. When Dajjal was in 1 day like a Year, he was based in Britain and the British empire bacame the super power of the time. When Dajjal was in 1 day like a month, America became the super power of the time. Note that the second day of Dajjal is shorter than his first. We believe that Dajjal is now in transition to his third day like a week. That means that the current super power must give way to the new super power which we believe is Israel. But when Israel is the Super power, it will be for a shorter time than America. When Britain was the super power, the Sterling was the standard, then when America is the Super power, the Dollar is the standard. The third super power will have a Standard which we believe must be gold.

  11. “Also based on history, it is likely to occur by the end of 2013.”

    Nope. November 7, 2012. As soon as Al, Jesse and Benjamin can get the peeps on to the streets.

  12. You were on my mind last night, admin, when I told my Poli sci class that we had 10-15 years of hard road before us. This effort meets the high standards of its’ predecessors – no easy feat.
    Something will tell us that we’ve reached the regeneracy. Lincoln may have been the ‘decider’ of this 4T, but Julia Ward Howe was its’ muse – ‘The Battle Hymn of the Republic.’ That song, based on ‘John Brown’s Body’ yet so different in tone, really marked the regeneracy’s taking place, soul by soul, among all who sung it. (BTW, it’s been my favorite song since early childhood.)
    I don’t know if the comparison is very good, but going from ‘Brother, can you Spare a dime?” to ‘Happy Days are Here Again,’ or perhaps something by the G.I. sweetheart Andrews sisters might mark the same divide in the last 4T.
    What it will be for ours remains unclear, but readers of your words will likely recognize it when they see or hear it.

  13. Aministrator please comment on the below

    We have also been told in the Quran, that God will destroy every town and every city and that one of the signs of the last day is the Smoke.

    The relevance of the above to today is that there is a divide between the western world governments in one side and Russia, China and the Islamic world on the other. We have been told by the Prophet that at the end times, (which we believe we are in,) the muslims will make a alliance with Ar-Rum which when translated is the eastern orthodox christians i.e Russia and it’s allies. The prophecy goes further to explain that this alliance will be forged to defeat a common enemy. i think it is very clear who Russia’s enemy are. When this war takes place, it will be a nuclear war in which thousands of nuclear bombs will be set off. If one can create an enormous mushroom cloud, then what will thousands look like, SMOKE!!!

    The guidance in the Quran is to leave the towns and citties and to move to remote countrysides where real food can be grown, where water is not polluted, where children can grow to be real men and women, with real values and ethics and faith.

  14. I’m glad you’re ready, Admin. At the end of every cycle of loss/grief comes acceptance. It sounds like you have accepted whatever is coming. It’s great, because once you can accept the worst thing that can happen (death), you can accept everything else. Then you aren’t a victim (if you’re prepared that is), the depression finally lessens, and you accept. It’s a good place to be. Most Americans haven’t even figured out they what might be coming; blissfully unaware, soon to be caught in the storm.

    There are so many plates spinning right now, all about to fall, or one falling causing the rest to fall, it’s really amusing. Bernake and the ECB are running around frantically trying to keep all the plates spinning, as Western economies watch, hoping to God they don’t start falling. But, alas, they will all fall down. Get prepared, NOW, if you haven’t already. Do whatever you have to do to get prepared. Don’t be a victim.

    Some more things to consider:

    “As long as we are concerned about whether the Fed is going to reappear every six or ten months as the lender of last resort to buffer this sort of slow motion train wreck we’ve got, we are going to be under the thumb of the Fed,” says Charlie Smith, the chief investment officer at Fort Pitt Capital. “The money creation that we see every six months is really the only thing propping up the world economies right now.”

    “So we’re talking about a banking system that is nearly four times that of the US ($46 trillion vs. $12 trillion) with at least twice the amount of leverage (26 to 1 for the EU vs. 13 to 1 for the US), and a Central Bank that has stuffed its balance sheet with loads of garbage debts, giving it a leverage level of 36 to 1.

    As bad as the above points may be, they don’t even come close to describing the REAL situation in Europe. Case in point, regarding leverage levels, PIMCO’s Co-CIO Mohammad El-Erian (one of the most connected insiders in the financial elite) recently noted that French banks (not Greece or Spain) currently have 1-1.5% capital relative to their assets, putting them at leverage levels of nearly 100-to-1.”

    … if the Fed were to announce a new policy it would have to be MASSIVE, as in more than $2 trillion in scope. Remember, the $600 billion spent during QE 2 barely bought three months of improved economic data in the US and that was a pre-emptive move by the Fed (the system wasn’t collapsing at the time).

    “So given that the Fed will only be able to announce a large scale program in reaction to a Crisis, whatever it did announce would have to be ENORMOUS, a kind of shock and awe, attempt to rein in the markets.

    Moreover, it would literally be THE LAST QE the Fed could hope to ever announce as political outrage from the ensuing Dollar collapse and inflationary pressures would likely see the open riots and/or the Fed dismantled (this has happened twice before in the US’s history).

    “In simple terms, the Fed’s hands are tied until a huge Crisis hits. And then, if the Fed acts it’s going to have to go “all in” with a massive program. If it does, we will still experience a Crisis, as the Dollar would collapse pushing inflation through the roof as well as interest rates (which in turn would destroy the banks as well as the US economy).

    ” In simple terms, this time around, when Europe goes down (and it will) it’s going to be bigger than anything we’ve seen in our lifetimes. And this time around, the world Central Banks are already leveraged to the hilt having spent virtually all of their dry powder propping up the markets for the last four years.”

  15. Admin, my students, generally get it. They’re adults returning to school for degree completion. They’re living with job loss, adult children at home, foreclosure problems and all of the rest. No one challenged me on it, at any rate, and they are generally prone to speak their minds.
    City Council gets it, too. Most of my family & close friends get it. It’s only at levels above my pay grade that i suspect that folks don’t get it, perhaps because they’re insulated from the worst of it.

  16. Ouch! I apologize for missing your reference to cutting the military industrial complex. My fault. It’s sometimes hard to find the pearl amidst the, how shall we say…excess.

    Regardless, Lincoln was a great man and a great president. While ‘many’ may believe that Lincoln’s and Roosevelt’s actions were wrong, I’d wager ‘most’ would disagree. Sorry, take it up with the rest of the country, not me. Tom DiLorenxo is a crackpot. He has been refuted time again, not the least by Hillsdale College’s own professor Krannawiter.

    I’m sorry for accidentally offering a critique outside of the Libertarian bubble. If you wish to persuade others not in the bubble, I suggest you develop a thicker skin. Thanks and have a good day.

  17. Administator, isn’t Knowledge something that we should all strive to seek

    AWD – With the upmost of respect, it doesnt matter that we all know that Europe and America will go down. The key is understanding who will take over and i have made mention just previously that it will be Israel who takes over with a Gold standard, but knowing this is still not enough to protect ourselves. If you read the Quran you will see that the God has told mankind that at this moment in time, it is better for us to leave the town and cities and move to remote places of the world like remote countrysides as there is a war coming that will reduce the world population drastically. You may not have knowledge of this, so all that i am advising is that we all strive to gain more knowledge in this matter to help protect ourselves and our families from a threat that is beyond our control. But muslims believe that all protection can only come from God no matter how well we have prapared, no matter how many prophecies we have knowledge of and that come to be.

  18. Jim, you Ossian, you. I was waiting to read all three before commenting… and I see you’ve outdone yourself this time. No wonder Howe was so impressed by you. You have a gift for putting everything in perspective.

    Agree with you on the “I’m ready, bring it.” statement. I think our generation (Gen X) is going to trade our “Whatever” motto for just that… “Bring it.” But AWD is right… reaching that point is strangely invigorating.

  19. Jim– I thought your articles were so important that I posted all three on my campaign website at Extremely well written; concise; on point, every step of the way.
    So what’s the “solution”? Simple, actually. We run for office. Who cares if you’ve never run before? What difference does it make that you’re not an incumbent? Congress has an approval rating of 10%– that tells you all you need to know.
    I’m from the Ron Paul community, but my US Senate team includes several “mainstream” advisors and friends. They all tell me the same thing– don’t hold back; don’t mince words; be as radical about these economic issues as you can possibly be. My “mainstream” advisors see the same thing I do– that the American people are genuinely searching for something new, and different, and better than what we’ve seen in the past. I call myself the “radical conservative” candidate; it’s my favorite choice of words (as compared to libertarian, or Ron Paul Republican, or any of the alternative phrases). A radical conservative says: CUT SPENDING; STOP THE COUNTERFEITING; BRING OUR GOVERNMENT MONSTROSITIES UNDER CONTROL. And most of all, take charge of our money. There can be no economic recovery without those steps.
    This economic platform is the model– so join us. Put yourself forward . . . run!

    1. Rick

      If we could elect 550 people like you, Ron Paul and Rand Paul I’d feel much more confident about the next 15 years.

      I urge people to make a contribution to Rick’s campaign.

      Give us a link to your website.

  20. Thinker

    This started out as one article and just kept growing. I only broke it into three because most people don’t have the time to read an 8,500 word article.

    I sent links to the three parts to Neil. I’d love for him to comment on TBP, but he is a very busy guy.

  21. That post is one of the best, most spot-on summaries I’ve read in 3 years of following financial reality blogs. You ABSOLUTLELY nailed it! I’m 52 and trying to hang on to what I’ve got and help my two young adult children. How the hell do you broach this subject with kids? They think you’re a lunatic. Anyway, it will take many like-minded believers in liberty to weather the shit-storm that’s approaching. Hopefully, when the maelstrom reaches it’s zenith, we’ll still be able to communicate like this. It may be all that saves us. Keep on keeping’ on, my brother!

  22. Real American – The Quran is a book which makes us believe in Jesus and his return without needing the Christians to convince us. We believe all the Prophets to be righteous again without being persuaded by the Christians.

    The Quran makes mention of many scientific facts which 1400 years ago could not have been known. It is only by recent advancement in technology that we have come to know these scientific facts which validitate the Quran to be from none other than God.

    The Quran makes mention of certain prophecies around the middle east , especially the Arab Sping which really will be an Arab Slaughter. Again these things have been mentioned in the Quran, so when this one comes true i.e a middle eastern war which results in Arabs being slaughtered. The beginings of which will start from a war with Iran and Pakistan. So when these things come to be, and you are still around, all i ask you to do is take a closer look at what the God through the Quran is telling mankind to do. Is that fair?

  23. quinn~

    i feel repetitive and redundant whenever i post to praise or complement your long pieces. so i sometimes skip it. but this series is really great, my highest praise and complements.

    i keep trying to wedge 9/11 into a workable fourth turning framework. i can’t, and i feel better that neil howe has trouble analyzing the attacks and the events since neatly as a crisis-regeneracy moment.

    that’s ok. history rhymes, it doesn’t replicate. more than 9/11 being a moment of existential crisis (which is just silly, considering 3000 dead out of a population of 300,000,000 citizens, less than 0.001%), it may ultimately be seen as something else. (like a national crazed freakout, with the panicked masses, suffering from temporary insanity calmed by the assurance of TBTB, ‘don’t worry your pretty little heads, just go shopping, here’s some low interest rates, we’ll handle this with a couple wars and the patriot acts).

    and the real fun still awaits us.

    a nit to pick. only because it gets repeated so often that it is a mistake deeply wedged into our history. FDR did not confiscate all the gold in the country. in fact, the authorities confiscated a tiny fraction of the privately held gold. FDR did create the legal authority to confiscate virtually all the gold in the country–and that in itself is very important, indeed it fulfilled the intended function and effect–but that legal authority was never fully exercised. that authority was barely exercised, and almost all gold in private possession was kept, or voluntarily surrendered. i have no clue the exact amounts seized, surrendered or maintained in people’s mattresses; there are anecdotes of safe deposit boxes being opened in the presence of treasury agents. but there is no record of systematic seizure or confiscation. and i assume such a thing would’ve been in the papers. just the oft-repeated canard that FDR confiscated all the gold, which did not occur.

    1. howard in nyc

      I value your insights and appreciate your support. I wish you would post more often.

      You’re right about FDR. I should have said that he declared it illegal to own instead of saying he seized it all.

  24. Rick Williams: I like your stuff, but it’s too late, man. Sorry.

    Abdul: quoting the Quran around here isn’t going to get you very many friends, sorry to you also. Getting out of cities is obvious once you realize what is coming. The herd will be thinned the quickest and most efficiently in cities. And, of course, GOD is in charge, and always will be. I prefer people’s opinions than blind reliance on books and dogma.

    Let’s face it. The debt is going to have to be written off, all of it. The losses accepted, all of ’em. The entitlements are going to have to end, all of ’em. We’re going to have to quit importing and buying Asian crap, all of it. We are going to have to produce/make everything we need in this country, all of it. Once that’s done, we can have a decent country and life again. Until that’s done, it’s going to be a shitstorm.

  25. “I have three teenage sons and their futures depend on the outcome of this Crisis. I will do whatever it takes to support them. I will not allow them to be cannon fodder in some war for oil in the Middle East. If their future requires me to oppose a tyrannical government, so be it. If their future requires me to give up my Social Security and Medicare security blanket, so be it. If I have to die so they may live, so be it. There are no guarantees in this life. We get about 80 years on this planet to make a difference. The choices we make in the next few years will matter. Are you ready? I am.”

    You and me both, brother. “Liberty, Honor and Survival” — the watchwords of the Nomad.

    I don’t think we are anywhere near regeneracy, though, unless we have another 9/11-type event. But who knows, maybe if will be another financial meltdown.

    I have difficulty believing that there will be the kind of concerted government action happening until both Congress and the Presidency are controlled by the same party, but I can’t see that happening until 2014 at the earliest. But all the pieces seem to be falling into place — yesterday or the day before the Supreme Court ok’d strip searches for any kind arrest.

    Today I see a 77-year old guy in Greece killing himself and invoked WWII era resistance fighters as a call to arms for the young.

    We may see other cauldrons boil over before they do here.

  26. AWD – It is through the books and the scripture that God communicates to us and advises us i.e do not commit murder, do not commit rape, do not deal in usury etc.. If we don’t live within a God given set of rules, morals and ethics, then we fall into a trap of creating our own rules i.e Dealing in usury is ok as it’s only business. Look at the mess the world is in by not listening to Gods command regarding usury. We are at the brink of economic destruction, our hard earned money/assetts are on the brink of being massively devalued. This is daylight robbery by the State. If we listened to God and just used Gold and Silver as money then this problem would not have occurred.

  27. Excellent articles. I have 4th Turning on order so forgive my ignorance (recently found this site). From what little I know the book documents how the 4 turnings cycle over and over again. Does the book discuss what appears to be an accumulating lose of rights with each cycle. Each cycle we lose more rights. Is there “end” cycle where the accumulated lose of rights results in a police state or dictator?

    Again, forgive my ignorance. If the answer is already in the book, just say, read the book.


    1. tator

      Strauss & Howe clearly point out that government has increased their power during every Fourth Turning. They don’t judge whether that is good or bad. They leave that up to the reader.

  28. What I find fascinating about this series is that it’s the first time I have seen the Fourth Turning explained without a multitude of the clueless showing up in the comments section to explain how totally wrong the book/theory is.

    I first read the book a year or so after it came out and I KNEW it was going to be a blueprint for the future – it was such a simple theory to understand it had to be correct. Then came 9-11, the wars, the housing crash, the 2008 crash etc.

    Keep in mind the catalyst is an event or EVENTS that cause the social mood to change. 9-11 in my mind was absolutely the start of the catalyst – I turned on the TV that day and it was completely clear to me the book / theory was vindicated. You can trace so much back to 911 – the Patriot Act, the Fed’s pumping up the housing bubble etc.

    As for the regeneracy – I think it important only in the sense that at that point in time, the great herd has decided who they will follow over the cliff – last time around it was FDR and he led us into WWII.

    This time around I think the 2016 election is going to be the decision point as it is quite clear that both Romney and Obama are nothing more than a continuation of the same stupidity and corruption that the sheep have voted into office for decades now.

    In 2016 I think we get a zealot as a ‘leader’ and shortly after that we get WW3. By 2017 the economy will be in shambles and the resource conflicts will be in full swing. If we are truly unlucky we get an internal Civil War on top of that – certainly the complete lack of common ground or sane discourse between those who swallow the propaganda of the Left/Right idiocy shows how close we are to that conflict as well.

    For those interested, Peter Savich wrote a great series of 4T analyses that focuses on another aspect of conflict : The People Vs The Corporations :

    In any case, we are in for a wild wild decade and the 4T has been batting 1000 in predicting the general outline of what we can come to expect.

    Thanks again for being one of the few writers on the internet who ‘GET’ the Fourth Turning and how very crucial it is to present reality.

  29. Admin,
    Great read, I learned a lot. I’ve been reading sites such as this for the last 4 years. I try to discuss what I’ve learned, very few listen.
    I could go on and on about many things, but lets get to it. People say get prepared. That does not really help me. Yes yes, mental prep is important, VERY..
    It just seems I need to do more, but I can’t envision what will happen.

    Do I store food, or do the feds take it.
    Some say buy ammo, or will they take it and lock me up.
    Some say move to the country, who has the money, very few.
    Some say buy silver, or will the fed take it.
    Some say take our money out of the bank, to prepare for the bank holiday. Why? The money will just be worthless?
    Will there be UN troops on our soil? If so, what do I do?
    Will they be putting people in camps, as an example? I don’t want to go.

    There must be something I can do to get ready, but since I don’t know how it will unfold, it is very hard to prepare for.
    I may be 52, but I’m not a quitter. In college, many years ago, I wrestled for ISU. I still think of myself as this mind set. To win the match, I had to prepare by very HARD work, or you lose!

    I don’t want to be caught unprepared. What can a man do to survive this?


  30. Abdul

    Come on. Take your poorly disguised Muslim proselytizing somewhere else. You are ruining the thread. And, no one cares.

    Now if you want to talk politics / economics that’s welcome. In your case, make your case that silver alone should be money. But don’t tell us it is because “Allah said so”. You’re not going to convert us or convince us. And did I mention …. no one cares?

  31. Admin– per request here’s the link to my Senate website:

    AWD– I don’t agree that it’s too late. Our freedom moment is just beginning. Mises tells us that all leaders must abide by the will of their people, no matter the form of government or degree of tyranny involved. Our task is to lead as the peoples’ will moves to freedom. And that’s going to happen. People act in their own best interest– when freedom becomes the best way to proceed, freedom will be chosen.

  32. “Rick Williams: I like your stuff, but it’s too late, man. Sorry.” —– AWD

    Thanks for saying that. I wanted to also but I didn’t want to shit on his parade.

    Judging only from his website, he seems like a very decent man. He’s a Ron Paul guy through and through and his views are dead nuts accurate. What’s not to like?

    Well, he says —> “In all my campaign speeches and writings I emphasize two central points. First– I tell everyone I’ll reduce the federal budget by $1 trillion in my first year in office.” Alrighty, then!!! Him and what army? Seems a tad bit over the top to me.

    Also, —> “Second– I say I won’t rest until I’ve ended our rotten to the core Federal Reserve System. Alrighty, then!!! I’m predicting a lot of insomnia for Mr. Williams. Color me skeptical.

    Admin says he’d be more comfortable “If we could elect 550 people like you ..” This is true. It is also true that if frogs had wings they wouldn’t have to frag their asses on the ground.

    You are correct. It IS to late.

    1. It might be too late to fix the system from within, but it’s not too late to keep fighting the good fight and convincing more people to come over to the good side. I applaud people like Rick Williams and Mike Gular who are in the front lines fighting.

  33. I keep reading how boomers need to forget about Social Security and Medicare, yet I never read what those people are supposed to do. If young and healthy people have “few decent job opportunities” is it really realistic for the old and infirm to think they’ll be able to find a job? What other options are there? Beg on the streets?

    1. Nearing Retirement

      Your Medicare and SS won’t be taken away. It’s the Millenial generation that is getting screwed. They won’t get a dime and we are handing them a $100 trillion bill.

  34. @Nearing Retirement –

    What did our elderly do before 1935 and WWII?

    If not born rich, they either worked until they died and remained independent, or they were taken care of by their family, friends, neighbors and churches. “Retirement” was only for the rich and politicians.

    I’m in my 40s and have known for a couple decades that the odds of social security being available to me is close to nil.

    The reality is that this won’t be a choice, no matter our feelings about “fair” or what is “mine” or what is “owed to us.” Odds are growing by the day that our monetary system will cease to exist in its entirety. With it will go all those government promises and paychecks – or, like in Germany and Argentina, the checks continue but they become worth less than the paper printed on (or electronic debit/credit put into a savings account that may be charging more in fees than your checks are). With it will also go the entire middle class. This is what happens – and what Jim rails about – when a fiat monetary system implodes. The middle is impoverished, the “rich” become the “middle” (at a much reduced % of population), the poor are lucky to hang on and the government and their cronies benefit.

    I really feel for people that have chosen to live their lives based on mathematical assumptions (pensions, SS) that were 100% completely and utterly outside the realm of possibility. It is a rude awakening to find out that there are many, many things you think are “yours,” but aren’t. They don’t exist. Truly never did.

    I’m sorry. I really am.

    I’m also happy that you are choosing to start the conversation you need to have with yourself concerning your future. This is the only way you can hope for any independent survival.

    Thank you for posting, it’s nice to see more people participating.

  35. Something as profound and pervasive as a Fourth Turning cannot possibly be event driven. Sentiments created merely by events tend to dissapate quickly.

    It is the underlying social mood that lends staying power to historic turns in human affairs. Social mood creates and sustains the context in which each separate event and issue is generally perceived.

    Have you ever wondered what lies behind the sage observation that ‘Nothing matters until it does’? It focuses on the fact that people don’t really care about something until they are in the mood to care about it. This trait of human nature goes a long way in explaining why human progress goes through cycles and fluctuations.

    Look at the Housing bubble as a classic example. Some people knew something was very wrong and corruption was running rampant — but most people didn’t care! Most people in positions of power believed everything would be fine. It wasn’t any single big event that burst the housing bubble — it was a gradual, subconscious change in mood from “I’m going to take advantage of this!’ to ‘I can’t handle this anymore!’ And it rippled through society like wildfire.

    I believe the work of Strauss and Howe is all the more impressive because they have elegantly articulated a very solid theory about the mechanism by which social mood can be expected to change over time. Simply put, they make the case that social mood turns in stages, and tends to repeat the cycle over generations corresponding to a human lifetime.

  36. Stucky– you’re sounding like a pessimist (lol). Why? Why not be an optimist? Why not adopt the positive viewpoint; and live it day to day? Our culture can turn in an instant– happens all the time. Consistent optimism– even in the face of a lot of contrary evidence– is a life choice; and one I strongly recommend to everyone. Just because the evidence is discouraging and contrary today doesn’t mean it’ll be the same tomorrow. Don’t you trust in self-fulfilling prophesies, and the power of one strong voice to change the world? I do.

  37. GREAT series!

    After reading Part 1 a couple of days ago I put the book on Inter-Library Loan, just picked it up now before reading Part 3. I will be reading it tonight.

    I am on SS and believe it will end soon. It will be hard living on $1,200.00 less per month. I feel fortunate to live in a rural area where the sense of community and the ability to grow food is nearby from local farmers. I may be old (65+), but I am healthy and eat very little red meat and junk foods and try to stay active. Medicare is a joke! They deduct $100 a month from my SS and as I take responsibility for my heath, I don’t need their medical treatment. I would rather pay as I go. (Of course if I come down with a major illness, I may GO!)

    From the excerpts of the book, I can see a major power shift around election time. Possibly a suspension of the elections and the current elected(?) seizing power.

    May you live in interesting times.

  38. Rick Williams

    Good questions. Good advice. But, you don’t know me so a bit of clarification is in order.

    It seems you’re defining optimism/pessimism in a global manner — meaning, it’s an all or nothing proposition — covering all areas of life. I prefer to break it up in pieces. For sake of brevity, let me summarize them in just two areas.


    I agree with you 100% regarding self-fulfilling prophecies. I believe 100% that our thoughts create physical reality, especially when it comes to our bodies. Maybe that’s why at 59 years of age I haven’t had a single illness in my life other than the cold and flu. Corny as it sounds, I totally believe I can (and, do) “speak” good health into existence. Words have consequences!

    I totally believe Jesus’ words that we should not worry about things in this life. And that when we think, we are to think on these things; “whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. “. I feel like I’m still a neophyte, but I am making progress every day.

    I am about to make some major life changes that will result in a huge downgrade in lifestyle. One might even say I’ll become poor again, at least as society defines it. A change with significant risks involved. Big challenges are ahead — challenges I can avoid by maintaining status quo. But I’m doing so, among other reasons, to pursue joy. I have butterflies, but no fear. I am positive the upcoming years will be the happiest of my life. If that’s not optimism, I don’t know what is.

    Just to be totally clear, when I say, “It IS to late”, I am not referring to my private life.


    I am not taking about the life I lead when I’m in public. I am talking about public things; the economy, war, education, politics, politicians, and so on. I have varying degreesl of optimism or pessimism for each category.

    Thankfully, I am not going to discuss them all. (And the crowd breaths a huge sigh of relief!). I will only discuss politicians. Why? Because, THAT’S what I was referring to when I said; “It IS hopeless.”.

    Let me be blunt and to the point. I don’t FULLY trust ANY politician. That includes Ron Paul (although I trust him more than any other) and you. That’s not a personal attack, so don’t take it that way.

    Why don’t I trust them? Because I speak from extensive experience. Because I’m 59 years old. And they have been bullshitting me for as long as I can remember. I am not that Peanuts character, who keeps kicking that football thinking, “OK, THIS time Lucy won’t move the football.” I kicked that football for years, decades actually. Enough is enough! I’m tired of being bullshitted.

    Relatively speaking the bullshitting was mild (John F Kennedy) to outright day and night, all-the-time by all-the-parties complete total utter bullshitting, as is the case today. Constitution Hall should be renamed Prostitution Hall, because that’s what virtually every one of them are …. all whores selling out the people. Funny thing is, I don’t even need proof or cite references. Just read DrudgeReport or Jim’s articles.

    You’re not like that, it SEEMS. I really have no way of knowing other than your website. But, I’ve read nice words before. I’ve heard every Tom, Dick, and Harry since 1965 say they will reduce, slim, or improve government. Hilarious now when I hear it again. I’ve heard every Tom, Dick, and Harry since 1965 say they will reduce my taxes or revamp the tax code. More hilarity. I’ve heard every Tom, Dick, and Harry since 1965 talk about a strong America through peace. Disgusting hilarity. So, now you come along, another politician who claims to be honest — and I’m not saying you’re not — but I’ve heard that also since 1965, and I wonder why you would think I should believe it … this time.

    Lastly, people say if we get 500+ people like Ron Paul (and yourself) that things will be much better. I wonder about that. It’s like the Debt Problem — one can’t get out of debt by creating more debt. We all agree that’s asinine. Same with politicians. They played a big part in getting us to where we are today, so it seems silly to me to think that more “better and improved” politicians will fix the problem. I’ve seen how politicians fix problems since 1965. It ain’t a pretty sight.

    Relying on 500+ honest politicians to help us peons is Fool’s Gold. Politicians can’t fix shit. That’s been proven over and over, and we should stop thinking they can. We must stop relying on them .. like stupid passive sheep waiting for the master to come to the rescue. We don’t need a master telling us what to do. (See my “aliens” thread). What we need is to take matters in our own hands. We need 100 million honest Americans to get off their lazy asses. THAT would increase my optimism astronomically.
    Dahum. That wasn’t very brief, was it?

  39. Darn it. I forgot to add…

    I wanted to stress that this was in no way an attack. criticism, of you. I’ve spent some time on your site even though I’m not from the Land of Flakes and Nuts. I can honestly say I’d vote for you. OK?

    I’d also vote for the guy below, just cuz of his name … a REAL one, btw.

    1. “Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.”

      James Madison

  40. Stucky…
    Illness and health disaster can strike anyone at any time, regardless of how wonderfully positive their thinking and their words are, and regardless of how healthfully they live their lives.
    You have made it to 59 without any anvils falling on your head, because you have been lucky.
    It sounds much less smug to just say “I have been lucky with my health”.. If you are lucky, you may go the rest of your life without illness, but, you may not.
    On behalf of all the wonderful, positive clean living happy adults and chilldren who have been hit with cancer and other horrible traumatic events, I find your “secret to healthy living” philosophy insulting.

    “Maybe that’s why at 59 years of age I haven’t had a single illness in my life other than the cold and flu. Corny as it sounds, I totally believe I can (and, do) “speak” good health into existence. Words have consequences!”

  41. Nice stuff Stucky. Politicians always promise rainbows and prosperity (hope and change), then deliver dog shit and acid. Once they get to Washington, they start stuffing their pockets and investment accounts, bought off like cheap crap whores. They need to be strung up, each and every one. Ron Paul is an anomaly, and the brain-dead entitlement shithead Americans can’t see past their limp dicks to support him. Even he can’t stop the train wreck of this country. I’m glad your taking care of yourself. It’s time to be selfish and fuck everyone else. It’s the only way to survive the holocaust wrought by these degenerate politicians and greedy fucker banksters and Wall Street con men. The criminal politicians will be strung up from the light posts very soon. It’s happened before and it will happen again.

  42. The four main families that secretly went to Jekyl Island, GA to draw up the Federal Reserve Corporation were: Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan and Warburg. Paul Warburg was the lead creator.

    Notice that these names NEVER appear in print? Notice one never hears of them? Did they all die? Why the “blackout”?

    So,we will not blame them, the owners of the world, (The 0.01% that control the 99.99%.)

    Interesting, isn’t it?

  43. “(T)he instinct to survive can be cultivated into motivations more subtle and much more complex than the blind, brute urge of the individual to stay alive. …your ‘moral instinct’ was the instilling in you by your elders of the truth that survival can have stronger imperatives than that of your own personal survival. Survival of your family, for example. Of your children, when you have them. Of your nation, if you struggle that high up the scale.”

    -Mr. Dubois

    (R.A. Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers”)

    Had to re-post it. Great to see some Xers expressing knowledge of what will be.

  44. @ Kate

    Positive thinking: Reduce stress by eliminating negative self-talk

    Positive thinking helps with stress management and can even improve your health. Practice overcoming negative self-talk with examples provided.
    By Mayo Clinic staff
    Is your glass half-empty or half-full? How you answer this age-old question about positive thinking may reflect your outlook on life, your attitude toward yourself, and whether you’re optimistic or pessimistic — and it may even affect your health

  45. “Administrator says:

    55 Fourth Turning books were bought in the last two days by readers. At least a few more people will be prepared.”

    Jim, you know you’re preaching to the chior here, and perhaps there are a few hundred thousand who consider themselves prepared. But I don’t see where the few thousand on here and the few hundred thousand out there will withstand the onslaught of the voices of the 300+ million who will demand that the government do whatever it has to to help them survive. And that means the prepared turn into the My Shit Army in the eyes of the Take Their Shit Army. You’ll become the 1%.

  46. I find your “secret to healthy living” philosophy insulting.” —- Kate

    Well, if you thought that was bad, you’re really gonna hate this. Step 1: Go fuck yourself.

    Ha. Telling you that felt good. How ’bout you? Did you have a good time?

    Listen you brain dead maroon. I didn’t write a full length text book on everything I believe …. so stop reading into it things that are not there!!! C.O.N.T.E.X.T. Google that word (without the periods). Study it. The context of my discussion with Mr. Williams (who asked your opinion anyway) was about POSITVE ATTITUDES. WORDS. IDEAS. Got it, maroon?

    You want me to say I’ve been “lucky” with my health. Once again, repeat Step 1. Indeed, “luck”, for example being blessed by good genes, does play a role. Are you happy now? But it goes far beyond mere luck. I believe I’ve had one bottle of soda in the past year. How many have you had? I go through a five pound bag of sugar maybe every 6 months. I don’t eat processed foods. I exercise. In other words, I make my own luck.

    Yes, children get cancer. I know that!!! Yes, in such cases words don’t matter as much. Then again, you might consider reading Lance Armstrong’s incredible story. How he states it was exercise AND his state of mind that kept him alive. But, nooooo, you’d rather just ignore the power of the mind.

    Yes, I will die one day. Cancer, organ failure, or just old age, and all my positive thoughts won’t stop it. I know that!! Who is the idiot here? Me, for being positive AS LONG AS I CAN ….. or you, who falsely takes my position to the EXTREME? I’m pretty sure it is you.

    I’ll bet you just bitch about everything. Damn, you must be a real joy to live with. [Sarcasm button: Off]

    Please repeat Step 1 as often as necessary until you come back and apologize to me for being a maroon. I am gracious and forgiving when I want to be.

  47. Stucky..Anger issues much? wow you are one snarly bear !. Me–sodas 0 sugar-date sugar only, very small quantities.
    If my comment was a 10 on the bitch meter, yours was a 100. That’s not good for your blood pressure. Just saying that your positive thougths and healthy living are not the main factors in your health. Genetics, luck are bigger factors. If you think you have the ultimate control over your health, you are in denial. But that’s ok, denial is a coping mechanism, and it probably reduces stress. Positive thoughts are just fine and helpful if they reduce stress, but “speaking good health into existance” is just new age-y magic thinking.
    ps your nasty f-bomb response to my comment makes it hard to believe you are the happy positive good vibe person you make yourself out to be. That rant of nastiness spilled on you more than it has on me. Namaste-may peace find you.

  48. Kate

    Anger issues? LMAO Another bad call on your part. I don’t know you from a hill of beans. You mean absolutely nothing to me. And I don’t get mad over, or at, nothing. You wrongly (what a surprise!!) equate a style of writing with emotions. You think you actuallyhave the power over me to make me angry?? You are hilarious.

    Anyway, my blood pressure is 115/60. Thanks for your concern.

    Did I say I was in “ultimate control of my health”? No. You keep putting words in my mouth … I’d like to put something in your mouth, if only to shut you the hell up. Wait. Nevermind. I saw the picture of you in the “Gone Fishing” thread. You should be the one worrying about blood pressure.

    Stay positive.


  49. BTW, Kate. You didn’t do Step 1 as I instructed you. Don’t think I haven’t noticed. Please start immediately. Thank You.

  50. Great series Admin! I originally came across your site by doing searches on Fourth Turning and Occupy related topics, you cross-referenced nicely. I think your “Bad Moon Rising” piece was the first one I read. Outstanding work! All of them have been fabulous reads.

  51. Stucky – you are just a mean person. You should be ashamed of yourself. Obviously, you were a bottle fed baby, and you have harbored resentment ever-since. I bet you went out and married a big-tittied woman to compensate, and call her mama. Or maybe even married more than one, as there is no way that any woman could stay married to a beast like you for very long. I pray for your immortal soul, but nevertheless you are a douchebag.

  52. “Wait. Nevermind. I saw the picture of you in the “Gone Fishing” thread. You should be the one worrying about blood pressure.”

    this just gets weirder and weirder. (There is no picture of me anywhere) and now someone is posting under my name? Maybe it’s just the furthersocial decay from the 4th turning.

    1. Kate

      You’re being doppleganged unmercifully. Don’t let the shit throwing monkeys win. I like your spunk.

  53. Kate – I am obviously new here and do not know whether I am coming or going. I cannot keep track of my own posts, nor any others for that matter. Woe is me. Pray for me one and all.

  54. Nearing Retirement

    Some educational references:

    Note the highlighted line near the top.

    [the Cliff Notes version:]
    The Supreme Court has established that no one has any legal right to Social Security benefits. The Court decided, in Flemming v. Nestor (1960), that “entitlement to Social Security benefits is not a contractual right”.

    from Health, Education and Welfare Secretary Arthur Sherwood Flemming’s brief:

    “The contribution exacted under the Social Security plan is a true tax. It is not comparable to a premium promising the payment of an annuity commencing at a designated age.”

    “In a U.S. Supreme Court case, Helvering v. Davis (1937), the court held that Social Security is not an insurance program, saying, “The proceeds of both (employee and employer) taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like internal revenue taxes generally, and are not earmarked in any way.”

    Some of us are such curmudgeons that we learned the reality a long time ago.

    And if someone argues there is a Trust Fund — the bankrupt federal government has a little ledger into which is recorded special Treasury IOUs, illiquid certificates backed by funds they don’t have.

    Have a nice day.

  55. ” …. but nevertheless you are a douchebag.” —- Kate

    Hallelujah!! You finally got something righ!

    I’ve been married once, and she had Battery Tits — AAA.

    Thanks for your prayers.I have some trials and tribulations ahead of me,

    Until we do battle again ….

  56. howard in nyc

    A nit with your nit … if you had read my Money Part 6 … E.O.6102 was a ruse. The real issue was those Liberty Bonds from WW1 could not be paid off in gold as the Treasury only held at that point in 1933 about $4.2 billions of said barbaric relic. It was a technical default papered over and there had been earlier provisions which covered the actual deed of confiscation.

    I did not make this scenario up out of thin air– I leave such presdigitation to the Bernank and friends.I do a lot of research from multiple sources. It is what it is.

    Yes, an individual could keep about five ounces of gold (1 troy oz./$20.67 before the revision. And ‘coins of numismatic value’ were exempt, jewelers, and so on.

    Here’s the thing:
    Between 1929 and 1932, the average American’s income drops 40 percent to about $1,500 per year. In 1933 one-third of the U.S. working population is unemployed.

    I don’t think the average working American had four double eagles and some lesser coins. I do think that even though times were hard, most people believed in the system and would have turned in what little gold they had. I am also sure as hell the people not working (and never officially counted) like my mother doing housework ‘for her betters’, had no gold.

    However, it appears a chart of Treasury gold shows a vertical step in 1933 of about 2X. The currency dollar did not catch up until about 1943 and in 1946 started a climb as gold reserves diminished back to 1936 level in 1971. And there was a significant down leg in 1968 when de Gaulle demanded to redeem his dollars. Of course, on August 15, 1971, ‘solved’ that problem.

    The Populists wanted an ‘elastic currency’ and got their wish in 1913. Funny money to get through WW1 and easy money to pump the stock market in the Roaring 20s. When the chickens come home to roost, they always choose Main St.

    Same old, same old.

  57. Novista
    Haven’t had a chance to read money part 6 , but I have it bookmarked.
    I just wanted to comment on the trust and fear the greatest generation put in their government.
    My father in law (RIP) who participated in the bombing of Dresden amongst other German cities and therefore knew full well the power of government to destroy ,was absolutely terrified of owning gold even in jewelry.
    His family had been very well off before the depression and although he never said his families gold was confiscated I thought it may have been because he would always say when the subject of gold came up that owning it was illegal and of course I’d say it wasn’t any longer, then he counter with it’s happened before with he flick of a pen.
    His last years ended with in vicious rape by the IRS which he just couldn’t wrap his mind around.
    On his death bed , he stated he couldn’t believe his government would steal his assets in such a brutal fashion and i asked him why?
    He just said”I fought in the war!”

    What a sad ending for a man that had risked his life committing what he considered murder by burning entire cities of civilians for a government he absolute worshiped , only to have to sell family land at the end of his days to pay another debt to his country.
    The shock of that betrayal finished him off.

  58. Kate
    I am sorry you don’t believe in the power of positive thinking, I have seen it many times. I have watched cancer patients hang to life for literally years when they should have died. I remember talking to a patient in ICU who’s labs (blood work) was not compatible with life she should have been dead instead of having a conversation; she walked out of that hospital two months later. I have also watched someone say they did not want to fight and die within hours. Your mind is a big factor in your health and happiness. Stay positive. Peace

  59. Kudos Admin. Another beautifully written symphony by the maestro of the 4th Turning.

    You hit all the right notes.

    Writing is a skill – but it’s also a gift – and you have it. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.

    I really think this 3-part series, like so many others – would be unbelievable as an ebook. You could make it a family project. Insert links to comments on TBP, music and videos, along with photos and news clips. There’s a company that has software which can make it easy – There may be others – but you can start there and see how it works.

    If that’s too daunting, why not start with a mobile App?

    Who knows?

    Maybe your work in these formats will inspire those who spark and lead the regeneracy?

    Please think about it.

  60. novista~

    of course, you are absolutely correct. i was trying to avoid diving too deeply into the details of the episode surrounding E.O. 6102. particularly, because i am not particularly knowledgeable about the details.

    not too many average americans possessed more than the new legal limit of physical gold. and those who held paper gold, in the form of liberty bonds were rendered s.o.l. with the new law and subsequent devaluation. (shit, i don’t even know the timing of the deval from $20 to $35).

    i don’t mean to suggest or imply expertise on this part of history. and i defer to you and anyone else with greater command of the facts. but when i began reading in depth about economics and finance about six years ago (when as a owner of property in the Sacramento area i noticed real estate prices leveling, then falling, and figured i should try to learn why), i noticed that some things i had always heard weren’t necessarily so. and not just in contemporary finance (real estate always goes up!) but in history.

    like the hoover administration caused the great depression with their laissez faire approach and disregard for the fate of the working class. or that fdr fixed the depression with massive deficit spending. the ‘gold seizure’ story was one of those oft-repeated misrepresentations of history that, once i dug into the record and learned it really didn’t happen that way, it stuck in my craw.

    it has taken me a while to get used to my ‘why wasn’t i told’ reaction to discovery of new facts. or my ‘why was i told this bullshit’ reaction. these past few years i have experienced this feeling so many times, it is starting to become old hat.

    thanks for dropping the knowledge on me.

  61. “Weiner dog just before being devoured by the much brighter TBP membership”


    (That looks exactly like my Maddie when she was a puppy.)

  62. I find it interesting that several of my fellow commentors read my earlier post as a whine saying “but I’m entitled!”. That wasn’t my point at all. What I wanted to point out was, what provisions can we make as a society to allow our elderly to live in dignity? If you tried all your life to do the right thing, but had your pension revoked, your investments crash, your housing equity destroyed, and your SS and Medicare rendered worthless, then what? Yes it’s easy to say “just keep working” or “have your family and/or church take care of you” but neither is an option for many, many people. Do we really want the marker of our civilization to be “Just Die Already”?

  63. Mr. Quinn,

    I always read, with great anticipation, your next great article. You capture the mood, and the outrage fabulously. I urge everyone to donate a little something– it takes a minute on paypal. Another blogger you may know, Nate Martin, writes in the same vein at , but he has gotten disgusted, and stopped writing for the most part. I guess he got tired of saying the same thing in different ways for the last 3-4 years. You almost did the same, but you are back w/ a vengeance. Here is an example you may have seen from a few years back:

    While I agree w/ the OWS movement in principle, I am loathe to support their solutions of bigger government, and question it’s progeny. I believe they have been unleashed by Obama’s community organizers in order to foment chaos, and to usher in the marxists when TSHTF. They are another group of useful idiots–More controlled opposition. Which convention do you think they will protest, D or R?

    What people underestimate is the danger that Obama represents to the Republic. The Central bankers have installed an ineligible non natural born Citizen, with no allegiance and attachment to America, in order to bring about the final destruction of the US Constitution, US Citizen sovereignty, and America as we have known it.

    Obama was born a British subject of a Britsh subject father, and would not be eligible if he was born on the Oval Office desk. He may be a British subject to this day (we are not allowed to see his passport), and is certainly not a natural born Citizen, as required by A2S1C5. The Central bankers have installed him, in particular, on purpose, and with a purpose, so anyone who says that “all presidents are controlled, he’s just another”, really has no clue. They have infiltrated the WH with a foreign agent on purpose. When the President is not Constitutionally legal, then there is no law, as the President is the executor of the laws. When the President is illegal, then there is no protection fron the Constitution — that is his purpose, to cover for the looting. As you can see there has been increasing lawlessness, which you have so eloquently illustrated, since he came on the scene– from nowhere. He is not “incompetent” or “stupid”. It takes brains to Usurp the presidency of the US. By ignoring this grave danger, thinking it’s a “technicality”, you and everyone else are aiding in the destruction of the US constitution– and I mean that in a nice way. Obama’s ineligibility is the BIGGEST, HUGEST, issue facing us today. Remove him for his ineligiibility, and the bankers will have lost a major tool, and those in Congress and the judiciary will have their TREASON exposed, since they, also captured by the Bankers, have purposely allowed it to happen.

    I have filed a contest of election suit in Leon Co. Court,Fla. on 2/15/2012, (#2012CA00467), using Fla ss. 102.168. There is no way I am “wrong”. It is more than an uphill battle, as the judiciary is compromised, but I will make my argument nontheless, and hope against hope that a principled jurist will “hear me” and “hear all of us”. While it is very hard to remove a sitting President, Obama’s appearance as a “candidate” again opens new windows of “standing”– an issue the preatorian gurads of the judiciary have used to protect Obama, and this Treasonous Congress who allowed him into the office. My arguments, and the arguments of many others, who are accutely aware of this issue, will be on the public record for future generations. Those generations will see that the installment of Obama was the biggest blow to the Republic EVER. The die is cast. He will win the next election if he is allowed to run, since the Captured Treasoners in the R Party have already thrown this election. I will not have to tell my kids I did nothing, as the Constitution, and the Republic, burned. I urge you to contact me, as I wish to write a guest collumn here detailing what befalls us. The knowledge of the Usurpation must be spread far and wide, in order to cut off the hands of the Central bankers— If Obama is allowed to attain the office again, and he will as of now, then the Republic is lost.

    “The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.” 88 US 162, 167 (1874)

    THAT, from SCOTUS’ Minor v. Happersett, is US law. Obama was born of a foreign father, never a citizen, or even resident of the US. He ADMITS to being born a British subject, since his father, a Kenyan national, was subject to the British Nationality Act 1948. What he doesn’t say is that he may be a British subject NOW— did he travel to Pakistan, a British Commonwealth, at the age of majority, in 1981, on a British passport?— we are not allowed to know.

    Article 2 section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution is a security requirement, designed to ensure to the highest degree possible, allegiance and attachment to country in the CIC of the US Armed Forces— this Usurpation is a grave danger to the Republic. A2S1C5 has NEVER been amended– it means the same as it did in 1789. By the Naturalization Laws of the US in the late 18th and most of the 19th century (1790, 1795, 1802, 1835, 1855), anyone born of the same circumstances as Obama, of a foreign father, in America, was considered an ALIEN, who would be naturalized by the naturalization of the father during the child’s minority. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that Obama is a natural born Citizen today. We may have a British foreign agent as CIC of the US Armed Forces!

    With Obama in office there is no law– look around. You need to get on board this issue, as everything else pales in comparison. All the whining and complaing and excellent scholarly work you and manty others do mean nothing while Obama occupies the WH. knowledge is power– and will topple him– but the public is largely unaware, or don’t care, thinking it’s just a “technicality. You are widely read, and can be an agent of enlightenment. Feel free to contact me for more verification, to argue against, test me, etc. I have seen every argument, and can swat them away like so many flies. To get up to speed, look here:

    Some of you, awakened, may do your own research, and come across the many disinfo, Obama apologist and internet operative sites, like Dr. Conspiracy, Fogbow,, or Birther this or that. I have heard every silly, desperate argument they make. Don’t be fooled. Minor v. Happersett IS US Law, and no, that decision did not leave open the question of whether there were “other classes” of natural born Citizens– that is a severly desperate argument. And no, the 14th Amendment did not “amend” A2S1C5, or it would have said so explicitly, by the law of statutory construction. And no, British Common Law is not followed in the US– another silly desperate argument. And no the Constitution is not a dictionary– so the “constitution did not define natural born Citizen” is the start of more misdirection– it did not define any term therein. And no, nbC has NEVER been held to mean “born a US Citizen”, as a matter of fact, that suggestion for A2S2C5, by A. Hamilton, was REJECTED in favor of “natural born Citizen– a term of NATURAL LAW, not British Common Law. That should cover some of the obvious canards.

    By the way Rick Williams, as a Presidential candidate, is in a unique position to challenge Obama’s eligibility, I urge him to contact me. Times awastin, tick tock,

    From a fellow Patriot.

  64. This was an excellent piece of work, thanks for taking the time to share your research and talent. Regardless of which generation has contributed to the circumstances we now face, the situation is critical, I see no way out. I (and I think others here) feel like the events in motion are beyond control, we have no recourse, subject to the consequences of the actions and decisions made over the last twenty- thirty years. I find it amazing that so many people I know do not see what the future holds for us , will not use critical thinking to form a true picture of what is transpiring right now, and believe America will continue to maintain it’s current standard of living for years to come…

  65. @Nearing Retirement.

    You aren’t/weren’t really “whining,” I just feel that you are not quite anticipating the severity, and reality, of the situation.

    Broke is broke. Money in wheelbarrows to buy bread – if even available – could be coming.

    I don’t know what America is going to do if our money becomes worth-less, or worthless, on the world market.

    When it happened in Germany, it ushered in Hitler whom promised much for starving Germans, especially the seniors, that had greatly suffered when their government decided to print and the world demanded all they had and more.

    What some of us think is coming is that our protector, savior and banking government is going to cut everyone (in America, foreigners will probably still get $$) in this country down to the starvation quick to try and keep the trillions of dollars of promises they/we don’t have and stay rich and in power.

    Things are going to get worse no matter what. Armageddon doesn’t have to happen and we will still have some brutal choices to be made – or dealt with.

    I would hope that those than can, would help take care of those that can’t, but in this “me, me, me” era, I’m not holding my breath. Soon I won’t be able to “give” anymore so that the government can take from me to give to another, but with what I can hold onto I’ll take care of my dad as best I can. I’m not the kind of person to allow another to starve if it is within my ability to do something.

    And, of course, I don’t want to ever think/say “die already” to anyone, anywhere.

    Lots of times in human history good people not wanting bad things to happen to other good people have been gravely mistaken and despairingly disappointed.

    I hope I’m wrong about this time, this place.

    Since you are new here you probably aren’t familiar with my grandad and the things he said that stick with me decades later. “Wish in one and shit in the other, see which one fills up first,” comes to mind.

    Peace to you.

  66. Perhaps this means little or nothing, but perhaps it’s a sign of the 4T social breakdown/regeneracy dynamic picking up steam. This came to me, and while I will not endorse it (haven’t seen the movie yet), I think that the concept of debt repudiation – ‘jubilee’ – could be resonant with many. The unappetizing major-party electoral prospects invite the thought that little will change because of voting. A modern Ziklag, where those in debt can go for succor and hope of a fresh start, would have strong appeal.
    Here is the message (and I don’t know how they found me, by the way):

    “Dear Anonymous,

    The purpose of this message is to inform you about the Revolution:



    Please, watch the “Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect” movie to find out why, how, and to have sound arguments to persuade others. The movie can be easily found with a search engine.

    Please, print the flyers at and distribute them.

    Please, spread this message and the movie to everyone you know.



  67. Never mind…my apology…don’t know why I would think that this was associated with the hacker group ‘anonymous’ or OWS. It’s junk. My apology for the wasted time.

  68. A Banksters worst nightmare,Being forced to Return to Real Money=United States Note=Lawful Money. The real reason you pay an income tax, is for the privilege of using a private currency. Also known As A: Federal Reserve Note, Demand from your bank or brokerage, lawful money and the tax goes away, with a tax exemption on lawful money, all of your money is yours.
    Tax Exemption:
    Web search these four different phrases: Redeemed in Lawful Money or United States Note or Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411 or deposited for credit on account or exchanged for non-negotiable federal reserve notes of face value

  69. as RE is fond of sayin’ “…coming soon to a threatre near you.”
    Well that, and “seven million people died ”

    The Tsolakoglou government has annihilated all hope for my survival, which was based on a very dignified pension that I alone paid for 35 years with no help from the state. And since my advanced age does not give me any way to react (although if a fellow Greek were to grab a Kalashnikov, I would be right behind him), I see no other solution than this dignified end to my life, so I don’t find myself fishing through garbage cans to survive.

    I believe that young people with no future, will one day take up arms and hang the traitors of this country at Syntagma square, just like the Italians did to Mussolini in 1945.

    “This is not just a person that killed himself,” Laos head Yiorgos Karatzaferis told parliament. “We have all pulled the trigger. What did this man see coming from us, before deciding to take his own life? He saw shady goings-on, he saw that none of those that stole from him and the Greek people are going to jail. He saw no help coming his way, as he tried to deal with his loans and debts. He was told that no slack would be given to him, no room to move.”

    “It wasn’t this man who should have committed suicide. Rather, it should have been those politicians that have knowingly let Greece to be crushed,” said Independent Greeks leader Panos Kamenos.

  70. howard in nyc

    Thanks. Real history is a challenge, fortunately with my star sign of the crab, once I get my claws on something, I just don’t let go. :=)

  71. “Wish in one and shit in the other, see which one fills up first,”

    One of my father-in-law’s favorite sayings.

    Lotta reality in that.

  72. I’m sorry but I simply do not consider the consolidation of central power to be “regeneracy”. Of course, I suppose some people will find a totalitarian state to be a form of “regeneracy”, but I’m sorry it’s being promoted here via this Howe idiot, unless somehow I am totally missing something.

  73. Obama has stated he will bypass Congress when they don’t do his bidding. Indeed, he issues Executive Orders. Obama now threatens the Supreme Court. Basically, he’s moving to Dictatorship.

    We even have our own goose-stepping cocksuckers. TSA gropers. Homeland inSecurity. Get a load of this shit.

    “A presentation released by the New Jersey office of the agency warns that passengers YAWNING, developing GOOSE BUMPS and appearing FIDGETY could all be potential terrorists.”

    I guess I better never read a Reverse Engineer post while waiting in line.


  74. Stephen D:

    The onlly “idiot” is certainly you.

    I don’t think you realize the gravity of the implications.

    Read the book, re-read these posts and scratch your simeon head a little more over it, and you can then return to apologize…..

  75. DHS Purchases Bullet Resistant Checkpoint Booths Amid Large Scale Ammo Buildup


    The Department of Homeland Security has made news in the past few weeks with the revelations that they have purchased up to 650 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow point ammunition.

    Now, despite ignoring requests as to why they need that much ammo, they have moved forward and purchased an unknown amount of bullet resistant booths to possibly be stationed at unannounced checkpoints throughout the country.

    A press release from the company that supplied the booths bragged about the sale:
    Date: April 4, 2012 – Owner: Department of Homeland Security – Project Description:

    Shelters Direct provided the Department of Homeland Security with this 4×13 Steel UL 752 Level 3 Bullet Resistant Booth. This guard building features a standing seam hip roof, a thru-wall HVAC unit, (2) UL 752 BR Level 3 sliding doors, UL 752 Bullet Resistant Level 3 glass and a Low]E coating.

    These booths seem destined to be used at checkpoints throughout the country as DHS and other government agencies continue their full scale takeover of America.

    As we have heavily reported in the last few weeks, numerous government agencies have went on an ammo buying spree, with the total amount reaching well over 700 million rounds. “In the last three years numerous domestic US government agencies have ordered a total of over 750 million rounds of .40 caliber ammunition.

    That’s right, multiple government agencies that specifically operate primary inside the United States have gone on a literal ammunition spending spree in preparation for what they must believe will be some sort of violent event.”

    Whether it be 140 million packets of emergency food, detention centers in all 50 states,750 million rounds of ammo, or numerous bullet resistant checkpoint booths, the Department of Homeland Security is clearly gearing up for something.

  76. Stucky – When a Muslim makes an opinion, it should be based on Scripture. So when i say that Gold and Silver is money and should be money to sort out the mess we are in, i say this as it is advised by Gold in the Scipture. I say this not to convert anyone as we have no power to guide anyone to our faith. It is God who guides whom he wills and the stiff necked will not be guided.

    Muslims have a duty to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil. This does not mean that a Muslim is perfect. I can tell you that Jesus himself forbade Usury. So when the rest of the world deal in usury to buy a house, car etc, Muslims save and try to buy in cash if not then they should live within their means. If the whole of society did the same using gold and silver then we would not be in this mess. When you do this you are obeying the command of God in the Bible and in the Quran.

    Jesus in the whole Bible does not claim himself to be God. On the contrary, he says “I of my ownself can do nothing, as I hear I judge, and my judgement is just for I seek not my will, but the will of the Father.” In other words, he has submitted his will to the will of God, one word for this in the Arabic laguage is MUSLIM.

    Now you have 2 options, Step 1 – if you want to be stiff necked, then you can be abusive, dismissive and rude. But if you are sincere believer in God and believe that Jesus was a messenger of God, Step 2 is that I ask for you to sincerely pray that God guides you to the truth by researching the Bible and the Quran. But if you prefer step 1, then can we both pray that whoever out of us is wrong be cursed by God in this life and the hereafter. Is that fair?

  77. Abdul

    “When a Muslim makes an opinion, it should be based on Scripture.”

    That’s a damn shame, really, that you can’t think for yourself.

    Personally, I think Mo was a murderer and pedophile, unless of course fucking pubescent girls is an accepted practice in Arabland. Hey, I hear Muslims get their tits in a wringer over cartoons, like this one.


    So, just curious, what is your opinion of me now … based on scripture, of course.
    “Muslims have a duty to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil.”

    Duty. Funny word. It’s a great word when I think of a fireman. “It is my duty to lay my life on the line for people in a burning house.” Great word when I think of parents. “It is our duty to sacrifice for our children.” But when duty is used by a Muslim? Kinda scares the shit out of me. Like making unbelievers (anyone who disagrees with Mo) 2nd class citizens or, what the fuck, you might as well cut off their heads. Don’t bullshit me, it’s in your holy book, and it’s your duty.
    “.. if you want to be stiff necked, then you can be abusive, dismissive and rude”

    Hilarious. Who is dismissive and rude … but in an oh-such-a-nice-way? Of course, it is you. Calling someone “stiff necked” is in itself quite an insult in the Koran. You’re not fooling me. Besides, why don’t you cut the bullshit?? Call me what your holy book requires …. An Infidel!! All us Christians are infidels. At least be honest.
    “ … whoever out of us is wrong be cursed by God in this life and the hereafter”

    Ahhh. Cursing. God. Hereafter. Favorite Muslim themes. Lemme aks yew. If it’s OK for your God to curse us now and forever and ever hereafter … then wouldn’t it be fair if we cursed him also? Shouldn’t cursing be a 2-way street? It is here on TBP. Well, good sport, I think it should be allowed, so here goes;

    Fuck Mohammed.
    Fuck Allah.
    Fuck You.

    Happy Easter. The Lord is risen, indeed. (And Mohammed is still in the grave.)

  78. Kate, your avatar is tied to your email address. Unless the doppelganger knows it, the occurance is easily spotted.

  79. Obama is EXACTLY the type of man that the framers were preventing from the office of President with the natural born Citizen requirement. His father is an “improper ascendant” (ancestor– see 1828 Webster’s Dictionary)) discussed in federalist #68,

    The prescription for the prevention of an improper “ascendant” (ancestor) was to choose a “creature of our own” from among the citizenry, according to A. Hamilton in Federalist #68 (March 1788). Could a “creature of our own” (sic) possibly mean the scion of a foreign, Marxist, British subject? Of course not.

    If the PURPOSE of the natural born Citizen requirement was the prevention of foreign influence, then how is it possible that one born a British subject is eligible? IT’S NOT. Obama has shown, by his actions, his lack of allegiance and attachment to this country— it’s obvious, uness your head is 2 ft deep in the sand. Throw him out of office for ineligibility, or prevent his appearance on the 2012 ballot, and one hand of the Criminal bankers will be cut off, and the Treason of this Congress and the judiciary exposed. Wake up.

    “Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?”
    —–FEDERALIST # 68, A. Hamilton, March 1788.

  80. Stucky – i dont’t think it’s worth telling you anything more from my part as you have insulted Allah whom we believe is the same God that Jews and Christians believe in. Reason – Jesus was a Jew. He spoke Hebrew. The Old testament is a Jewish Book. Hebrew and Arabic are sister languages. Hebrew as a language was dead for 2000 years. Whereas Arabic has not. Both languages sound similar i.e “salaam” in Arabic and “shaloam” in Hebrew means peace etc. Even though Jesus was a Jew the New Testament is in Greek??? Nevertheless, When he was on the cross, when he cries out to God, this in the New Testament is preserved in the actual Hebrew. He says “Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachtani” which when translated in the Bible says “My God, My God why has thou forsaken me.” My point is Stucky, Look at “Eli, Eli” At the most crucial junction of Jesus’ life, he is crying out to God by his name. If as you say God his Jesus’ father, then why does he not call him by “Abba, Abba” which is Hebrew for “father,father”, OR by “Jehovah,Jehova”. As I said both Hebrew and Arabic are sister languages, so Eli, Eli in Hebrew is Allah, Allah in Arabic. Say it a couple of times and see for yourself the similarity.

    Jesus himself never claimed divinity, read the Bible and see for yourself. In fact he claimed the exact opposite, He said “I cast out devils by the finger of God,” and “I of my own self can do nothing, as i hear i judge and my judgement is just for i seek not my will but the will of the Father”. SEE – If HE claims HE can do NOTHING, why do YOU and others say he can.

    If Jesus died on the cross, then why did he never show himself to the Jews who never accepted him? Why was he always hiding after the alledged cricifiction? Answer – he never experienced death, but escaped it by the skin of his teeth. We are made to believe that neither did he die or be crucified, but it was made to appear so. Pretty emphatic statement which really only God can make. But we believe no questions asked.

    When Jesus appeared in the upper the upper room, the disciples had not seen the actual crucifiction. They “left him and fled at the most critical junction of His life” They heard from heresay that he had been crucified and dead and buried for 3 days. But when they saw him, they were “afrighted”. Would you not be happy to see your master after hearing what he had been through. They were scared thinking he was a “spirit”. But he answers them with, Behold my hands and my feet, it is I, Myself, handle me and see, for a Spirit has no flesh and bones as you see me have. So they handled him and saw. By handling him they felt the flesh and bones which a spirit does not have. If he died then why does he have flesh and bones? Are we not suppose to be “like the angels” But to further prove that he was not a spirit, he asked them for “broiled fish and honecombe and he ate.” TO PROVE WHAT? Did he eat for just the sake of eating, or was he proving a point? Do we NEED to eat once we have died and risen? NO, Who says so? YOUR BIBLE. Read the story about the woman with seven husbands. The Jews wanted to trick Jesus and asked who was going to have her on the other side. What did Jesus answer ? Neither will they die anymore, for they will be like unto the angels…..” Angels do not NEED food, sleep, shelter, sex. These are human requirements. Jesus needed to eat, he needed to hide from the Jews as he had not conqured death. Do you not see?

    Further Proof from the Bible – When the Jews wanted a sign that he was the Messiah, he said “An evil and adultress generation seeketh after a sign, no sign shall it be given, except for the sign of Jonah, for as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth.” He is saying that the miracle of Jonah will be his miracle. What was Jonah’s miracle. That when you expect a man to die, he is alive. When he was tossed into the raging sea, a normal man should have died, but he was ALIVE. When he was swallowed by the whale, a normal man should have died, but he was ALIVE. When he was in the belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights, a normal man should have died, he was ALIVE. This does not make him divine but rather a favour from God. Jonah’s miracle is when you expect him to die he is ALIVE. Jesus says his miracle/sign will be the sign/miracle of Jonah. So when YOU expect Jesus to die, he is in fact ALIVE.

    We are told by Allah that Christians and Jews are People of the Book. It is an honourable name given to you. So call me what you want but please dont curse God almighty for he is the same God that you worship. Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmaeel. We are from the seed of Ismaeel and others are from the seed of Isaac. Abraham classed both of them as his sons. Both his sons worshipped Abrahams God. So why today do the followers of Isaac dispise the seed of Ismaeel, when Abraham had no problems with them.

    By the way, you didnt comment on Usury, is that because you are a usurpur yourself?

  81. Dear Abul Oblingata

    You have made many errors. I will point them out because you seem like a swell fellow. However, do not write to me again as I won’t be here. I am making my pilgrimage to Mecca for Mo’s sake. I’m also doing it for Larry and Curly.

    1. Jesus was a Christian. They even named a religion after him, so stop being so dumb.

    2. Jesus spoke English. Because he was God (PBUH) it only SEEMED unto the people that he spoke their language. But being all-knowing he knew Americuns would kick your asses in the future, so that’s what he spoke.

    3. “salaam” in Arabic also sounds like “salami” in English. Your point is useless. However, the next time some A-rab says “salaam” to me, I’m gonna give him my salami sandwich.

    4. Eli L. Sabachtani was a funeral director that Jesus knew. It’s in the Gospel of Judas.

    5. You ask me why we need to eat once we are risen. I’ll answer that when you answer this; Why do mooslims have to fuck 70 virgins after they are dead and in heaven? While you’re at it, why are virgins only “black eyed”? This is the one thing keeping me from converting. If I’m gonna fuck for eternity I need someone with blue eyes.

    6. I like your whale story. You also are a miracle. By all accounts you are brain-dead, yet you live. Hallelujah! Salami!

    7.Yes, you are of the seed Ishmeel. Ishmeel comes from the word “cameel”, from which we get the word “camel”. Therefore, you are from the seed of a camel-fucker. Which explains Mohammed’s sexual fascination with them.

    8) Lastly, I always like to close with something we can agree on. I’m talking about your reference to “the finger of God”. I prayed to Jesus to give you a sign, and lo, he led me to this picture to give to you and your mooslim buddies.


  82. Stucky – Jesus never ate pork. He never bowed his head to an idol. He was circumcised He forbade usury. He prayed to God by falling on his face (see the incident in the garden of Gesthemene) In this Stucky we are the true followers of Christ. Whereas you and the St Paul gang have de-railed the religion of Abraham, Moses and Jesus and created a very different one. Did Jesus not say “the disciple is not greater than the Master”

    Stucky – Let me ask you, when Jesus comes in his second coming and you and I are still around, who’s house will he feel more at home in. Yours with the pork, intoxicants, idols, usury purchased property OR ours which are free from all of the above. By the way, we even look like him and his predocessors i.e have beards. He might mistake you and some of your people as masculine women, no sarcasm intended.

    Jesus said on his second coming – Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
    His answer will be, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’
    Is it the Muslims, Jews or Hindus that call him Lord, Lord? NO, it is YOU. So why will he respond in such a way to you. It is simply because you are not following him as he should be followed, but rather obeying St Paul who is the real founder of Christianity.

    Open your eyes and try to leave all that hatred out for a moment and see. Remove the blinkers and just follow Christ. No need for boxing gloves, if you differ than that’s fine, to you your way and to me mine.

    Faith is what’s going to save some from the disaster ahead. The economic Tsunami is getting started, just depends if you know how to keep out of its way. Our answer is to refrain from all usury based transactions, stop using the fraudulent paper currency, start using minted gold and silver coins for all transactions. Stop the dependency on oil as this black gold is going to affect us big time in the coming months/years when the Middle Eastern war begins. If all this can not be achieved on a macro level, then we should strive to achieve this on a micro level i.e leave the towns and cities and relocate to the remote countrysides where we can achieve most of the above. Once out of the usury based world, then will we be truly free and have a chance to live without sackles.

  83. “By the way, you didnt comment on Usury, is that because you are a usurpur yourself?” — Abdul

    Here are my comments how Jews/Christians view usury (interest). I assume it is similar for Muslims, since the source material for the Koran frequently comes from the OT and NT. All Abrahamic faiths condemn interest. However, Among the Mesopotamians, Hittites, Phoenicians and ancient Egyptians, interest was legal and often fixed by the state.

    1)- General Comment: There are clearly more verses against interest than for it. However, to say “all interest taking in any situation is always a sin” … well, that’s not true.

    2)- Etymology: Fascinating …. “interest: comes from the Latin verb “intereo” meaning to be lost.

    In the OT, sometimes the very same word used for “interest” is translated “a bite”. It is like the slow poison of a serpent


    3A) — It is the POOR … AMONG THE ISRAELITES … who are to receive interest-free loans …. out of compassion and mercy. This is the most common theme regarding interest.

    ” If you lend money to MY PEOPLE, to the POOR among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest”. — Exodus 22:25

    3B)- FOREIGNERS can be charged interest!

    “You shall not charge interest to your countrymen: interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest. You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countryman you shall not charge interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land which you are about to enter to possess.” — Deuteronomy 23:19-21

    3C)- The rich are almost always condemned

    Another large group of verses condemning the greed of the rich, who oppress the poor by, among other things, exacting interest which the unfortunate are unable to pay. (Ezek. 18:13, 17, Jer. 15:10, Prov. 28:8)


    4)- In at least one instance, Jesus seems to be OK with interest

    “Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.” — Matt 25:27

    5)- However, the more general principle taught by Jesus to give rather than lend.

    ” Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.” — Matthew 5:42

    6) Jesus, Paul, and other NT writings overwhelmingly warn against going into debt – but they do NOT forbid it.

    7)- The most basic requirement the Bible declares is for a borrower is to repay.

    “Let no debt remain outstanding.” —– Romans 13:8

    The best warning ever from Solomon —- “the borrower is servant to the lender.”


    The taking of interest was forbidden to clerics from AD 314. It was strictly forbidden for laymen in 1179. The beginning of the end as far as the total ban on interest was concerned came in the sixteenth century. Martin Luther still condemned it utterly. But Calvin argued that interest-taking did not constitute usury ….. as long as it was not excessive.

    In the late Middle Ages the problem of financing the and setting up capitalist institutions in the face of the Christian ban on interest was resolved by THE CHURCH allowing Jews to act as bankers. It was in this way that the Jewish community was able to accrue vast wealth and thereby to bring down on its head the loathing of the Christians. Jews were a necessary evil …. just as cow hide tanners are pariahs in Hindu society.


    By playing games with words. Example:

    Habib works with an Islamic finance company to buy his $300,000 condo. He has a $30,000 down payment and the finance company puts in the rest. Essentially, they buy it together. Instead of paying a mortgage, Habib will pay RENT …. until he eventually buys the company out of its share. The company charges a fee for Habib’s exclusive use of the house. BUT ….. they consider that PROFIT, not interest. It’ll end up costing virtually the same as a mortgage. This is hypocrisy at its finest. A rose is rose by any other name. But, hey, whatever works … Habib gots to live somewhere.

  84. “Stucky – Jesus never ate pork” —– Abdul

    1) You REALLY need to try to develop a sense of humor.

    2) Try to understand irony and sarcasm.

    3) Don’t take yourself so seriously

    Lastly, STOP trying to fostor your belief on others, especially me. Stop giving me false hypothetical questions. They are as silly to me as mine would be to you … IF I asked them. That’s because we operate under totally different assumptions.

    So, if you want to follow Allah, Mohammed, and Jesus well then go ahead and do so. Just stop asking me to do likewise. You live YOUR life according to your beliefs, and I’ll live MINE. I think that’s fair.

  85. Islamic banks that are used to buy a house is just interest through the back door. It is not allowed, only people who are namesake muslims use this.

    It is fair what you ended with, so i guess we will both only truly know who is correct at the latter moments of our life.

  86. ” … St Paul who is the real founder of Christianity. ” —-

    BTW, I agree with that comment.

    And, your last paragraph also.

  87. Abul

    Islam, the religion of peace, is getting ready to chop off some hands in a formerly independent state. It’s God’s will. Nice religion you got there.


    Triumphant Tuareg rebels fall out over al-Qaeda’s jihad in Mali

    As one group of rebels proudly proclaimed the independent state of Azawad in the “liberated” north of Mali last week, their allies were preparing for jihad by cutting off the hand of a “criminal” and forcing women to wear the veil.

    The rebels, armed with weapons stolen from Muammar Gaddafi’s formidable arsenal, took over an area of the Sahara as big as France in an astonishing 72 hours, taking advantage of the chaotic aftermath of an army coup.

    Few of the people they promised to free waited to find out what freedom would be like. Instead, an estimated 250,000 people left their homes, terrified families fleeing with their children and possessions. Many told tales of looting and rape by rebels who now control a vast area in the heart of Africa.

    Foreign governments were left scrambling to find out exactly who the rebels were, amid fears that a base for al-Qaeda will now be set up in the Sahara similar to ones in lawless parts of Pakistan and Somalia.

    “Our law is a legal war, a sacred war, in the name of Islam,” a bearded leader of the Ansar al Din militia called Omar Hamaha told his supporters in Timbuktu soon after they took control of the ancient caravan town. With its blue men, spectacular mudbrick mosques, and annual music festival under the desert stars, Timbuktu was a fashionable destination for the well-heeled tourist looking for an experience of the Sahara, until 2007 when kidnapping started.

    Even more worrying than Ansar al Din were the supporters of al-Qaeda in the Maghreb (AQIM) who streamed into northern Mali with ambitions of setting up an Islamic state. They included men who have made millions of pounds of ransom money by kidnapping foreigners.

    The rest of this hideous story here;

  88. In my opinion, Islam is a form of seventh century behaviorism masquerading as religion.

    PS, Pork is delicious.

  89. Stucky – there are black sheep in every community, don’t judge the religion by some people, judge it by it’s scripture. What was Moussolini, and Hitler, they classed themselves as Christians.

  90. Abdul, your holy book mandates beating your wife if she disobeys you. Pork and menstruating women are eschewed but Allah is cool with slavery and sex with pre-pubescent girls. Nice religion you have there.

  91. I have great respect for Mr. Quinn as a “modern day” commentator on The Fourth Turning, esp. after reading this series of three essays. I had hoped that readers of this website would be, generally speaking, on Mr. Quinn’s level of civilized and intelligent discourse.

    However, I have had nothing but revulsion for those making Comments above which exhibit nothing so much as ignorance, rudeness, and verbal vulgarity. Their comments do not fit in with the high tone and intelligence in Mr. Quinn’s essays and the whole website in general.

    With this continued willingness on the part of some people here to broadcast their brainwashed state of mind concerning Islam, the real worth of The Fourth Turning and the serious of the task ahead of us is diminished.

  92. Mr. Quinn a real tour de force. You’re really brought Strauss and Howe up-to-date.

    Since the comments appear to have been conflated into one series rather than kept separate to each of the three parts of this essay, it is difficult for me to comment specifically. In fact I have yet to wade thru all (at this time) 147 comments. Perhaps in these there are some discussion of the real differences between previous Crises and the present one.

    Nonetheless, I would point out the following: In all previous Crises America was not ruled by an oligarchy of sociopaths who have managed to stage a coup d’etat not once but twice in the last 50 years; i.e. November 22, 1963 and September 11, 2001. That has never happened before in any Crisis.

    There are many ramifications attendent to these two coup d’etats. One of the most dangerous is the take over of the voting process itself by the oligarchy. Even in the day of Lincoln and Roosevelt, the voting boothes were, essentially, honest. But since the advent of these electronic “voting” appratuses, with their proprietary computer source codes, Americans can no longer vote these puppets of the oligarchy out of office!

    Some others are:
    the use of chemtrails as a form of genocide against its own people,
    a huge standing Army,
    a massive technological computerized apparatus of control,
    an intentional destruction of the nation’s economic structure,
    the ascendence of GMOs,
    the passing of anti-constitutional laws such as Patriot I and II, the NDAA, etc.
    and so on.

    I see no option in this Crisis for the People to be able to rise up and take back their country; that is for the previous solutions to be operative. For statesman-like Prophets to come forth, and the other types take on their roles. This does indeed seem like the End of All Things, like a ‘boot stomping on a face forever’.

  93. Mr. Quinn, this was a quite excellent read. I admit that I haven’t yet read The Fourth Turning, but I have listened to several interviews with Neil Howe and read other synopses of it on the interwebs, so I feel I’m familiar with the basic plot of it, so to say.

    One thing that I think that Mr. Howe misses, however (and this is based more on his interviews on Financial Sense than the writings) is the ways in which our culture has degenerated in the time since the previous turnings. I have a long daily commute to and from NYC every day (around 3 hours round-trip) and I pass the time listening to podcasts. Yesterday I was listening to an interview with former NYC and NYS Teacher of the Year, and current deschooling advocate John Taylor Gatto that I got through Gnostic Media. In it, Mr. Gatto was detailing the history of public education, how our system was based on the Prussian model, and the unstated goals of that system. Those goals included:
    – Inculcation of obedience and deference to the state and authority figures
    – Squelching individualism and creativity in the name of conformity
    – Classification and segregation of people according to background and measured “ability”
    – Training for work in a centralized economy (mostly lower-skill jobs)

    This state-run, public education model is also contrasted with the classical liberal education reserved for the managerial class, and how it is kept away from the majority — because it encourages critical thinking and personal initiative, the very things that are dangerous to the status quo. One of the things that made Gatto such an effective teacher and also got him into constant trouble with administrators was that he taught this classical liberal model to poor urban kids who weren’t supposed to get it.

    The problem with this model, however, is that in the managerial class’s desire to have unthinking, well-conditioned, obedient citizens, they actually end up cutting their own throat. The state-run system of the Prussians, for instance, eventually formed the basis for Nazi Germany (Gatto’s analysis, not mine) because the citizenry had lost the ability to think and create and do for themselves. Gatto proceeds down this path by contrasting the United States before widespread public schooling — a vat of bubbling creativity, with most inventions coming from individual, self-educated tinkerers as opposed to university-trained specialists. In the time since, the public schooling system has sapped this creative impulse by crushing self-sufficiency, setting up a system where everything we get — from our education to our food to our entertainment — is provided for us by “others”. Where in previous times of crisis we had a still-present instinct for self-sufficiency and self-initiative, today we have almost complete dependence upon those large institutions that passively and actively conspired to bring us under their control. For evidence of this, I would recommend looking at the works of Edward Bernays and Walter Lippmann. Having done a short stint as a teacher during a career change, I think that Gatto’s assessment is pretty much on-the-mark.

    On a personal level, as someone who has never been content with the answers given by authority figures on any level (because they’re usually wrong, misleading, or meant to control us), I’m preparing for this by becoming a certified permaculturalist and growing more of my own food, using my engineering license to build up my own independent small-scale business, developing greater energy self-sufficiency, becoming more involved in my community, and taking back my time from the centralized institutions I currently have to work for. However, in spite of my own hope that a better future will be borne out of this fourth turning, I’m not optimistic when I look at how dependent and entitled many of my fellow citizens are, and the way that our social fabric and culture have been torn apart by the industrial state’s goal of turning us into atomized, disconnected consumers who know just enough to perform the tasks before us, but not enough to actually think about the WHY behind those purchases and tasks. I’d appreciate any thoughts you have on this matter.

  94. “The state-run system of the Prussians, for instance, eventually formed the basis for Nazi Germany (Gatto’s analysis, not mine) because the citizenry had lost the ability to think and create and do for themselves.” ————– Chistopher Harrison

    Chris, I know that’s Gatto’s anlaysis, not yours, so I hope you’re not insulted ….. but that’s one of the most simplistic (and, fundamentally wrong) analysis ever on how the Nazi’s came to power. Don’t want to get involved in yet another tangent, so that’s all I have to say.

    Rest of your commentary is spot on. Especially how the industrialized state atomized consumers who no longer think or even know the why behind what they do or buy. That was brilliantly stated.

  95. Stucky – The only way you’re going to insult me is if you make a personal attack on me, my wife, my children, or my parents. I won’t get insulted by a critique of ideas.

    As for Gatto’s analysis, I admit that I completely oversimplified it — probably to the point that it came across as much more simplistic and less nuanced than it was. A much more accurate translation of his analysis would be to say that by the time that several successive generations of German citizenry were inculcated by the state-run public education system, they had been progressively dumbed down to obedient tools of the industrial state the the point that it helped create conditions much more conducive to the Nazis coming to power. I also write this well aware that there were numerous admirers of the Nazis in 1930s America — most notably the plotters of the coup that tried to recruit Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler as a charismatic front man — and that during that period it was very feasible that we could have gone down that path. Perhaps the fact that our transformation to a centralized, industrial state was not yet complete helped stave that off….

    If I thought about this all for another few days and exchanged ideas with others, you might get 4 or 5 different assessments — but that is where my head is on it right now.

  96. Christopher Harrison

    Thanks for the added detail.

    I have read a lot of stuff on Nazi Germany, but not so much on that which focuses on their educational system … or the comparison to ours. Very interesting thesis. I was able to find Gatto’s website, but not the speech you referenced. Would you have a link to that? Thanks in advance, either way.

  97. Stucky — here’s the link to the interview with Gatto I mentioned:

    It’s the first part of a 5 part series. I still have to listen to the other 4, but I read a lot of his stuff when I was aspiring to a career change into teaching. Needless to say, with a bias toward critical thinking and unschooling, that career change was less-than-successful.

  98. You have done a great service to your readers in providing this information. I sat down and read all three back to back. We are aware of the individual crises we face but when it is laid out assembled like this, the monstrosity of what has been done to us–we have done to ourselves–is nearly overwhelming.

    The best we can do now is prepare individually so that we can be ready to promote the positive vision at the time needed. As a Boomer, I would urge all of us in that group to really rise to the challenge of including ALL ages in our care, not just our group. We had tremendous advantages afforded us that the younger ones will not enjoy, through no fault of their own. We OWE them the opportunity to succeed after this is past, and that won’t come by clinging to the last shred of pie for us as others starve.

    I don’t think of myself as an optimist but in my 62 year-old bones I feel that we will overcome this as ONE people, and understand that I CANNOT AND MUST NOT insist on clinging to benefits that Americans yet unborn will have to pay for.

    Time for reality. Time for compassion for those who deserve it. Time for us doing the right thing in each of our lives. Time to crush those who have been ruthless in their theft of our substance.

  99. Jim, during the few years that you’ve been writing on TBP your grasp and vision of the situation has clearly sharpened. That clarity will serve your family well. Thanks for your insights. God Bless you.

  100. I greatly appreciate this series of “You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet” posts and agree with 99% of the points you make.

    There is only one itsy-bitsy little thing I will dispute, and it’s really not so little. It’s actually very large.

    That is that we should emphasize “duties over rights”.


    The Duties over Rights principal is one of the cornerstones of Collectivism and it’s the Collectivist mentality that has brought us to the current pass to begin with.

    The only “duties” any citizen has is to Earn His/Her Own Keep, pay for benefits received, maintain the civil interface that supports him or her, and respect other people’s rights.

    The “duties before rights” mindset has given us the welfare state and all the “gimmes” for entitled constituencies, as well as military conscription. It has delivered millions of young men to their deaths or lasting injuries in immoral wars of aggression (your duty to your country), and millions of women to birth kids they can’t support or care for (your duty to the “species” or God), and justified destroying people financially to support anything that passes “for the common good”.

    After 100 years of steady assaults on our individual rights to the point where we have none left, I consider the restoration of those rights to be absolutely imperative if we are to survive as a humane civilization and not revert to the barbarism of medieval times and before.

  101. Those common sense suggestions of Strauss & Howe are almost exactly what the Young Republicans had printed in their flyer circa 1985.

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  103. I have been learning about this topic for about a year. I am not sure of the reason I started my search for information. I have been to thousands of sites but when I started reading your words…I felt like I had come home. Like I was not alone. I am 50 years old with three young children. I am by no means a scholar. My last year of school was ninth grade but I sure understand what is going on. I get an idea in my head and go with it. Computers were it at one point. The first computer I put together was full of viruses. I started fighting them and loved it. I am very good with computers now because I liked to fight viruses and I am good at fighting those now. I started my research on government, politics and corporations. What kept my attention was the fact that no one…at all, would listen to anything about very important, at least to me, information I discovered. I could have had a confession signed by the president and notarized …and they would not acknowledge it. I could not understand it and I still can’t. It is almost like they are programmed to not listen. I study this topic all the time now…Sometimes I wish I didn’t. I would give my life to make this world right without a second thought. Someone said earlier that it would be hard to tell his children because they already think he is insane. Mine do as a sense, but they also know if I told them… that it is the truth. My problem is that I am too sane. Thank you for this place. I will visit again…
    ~ John


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