HOW DID THESE IDIOTS SHOOT NINE INNOCENT BYSTANDERS?

These two officers are five feet from this dude and manage to shoot nine other people. Christ Almighty the NYPD is a fucking disgrace.

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Zarathustra
Zarathustra
August 25, 2012 6:48 pm

Kind of hard to tell but it appears that the guy turned his gun on himself while the cops were all shooting at bystanders. It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic.

Maddie's Mom
Maddie's Mom
August 25, 2012 7:01 pm

Sounds like something I might do. 😛

No Field Five
No Field Five
August 25, 2012 7:10 pm

@Admin – “The NYPD does a much better job against people who are unarmed.”

I guess it depends upon who you think they were aiming at. The bystanders were all unarmed as well. The guy who falls in the last frames – if he was the shooter, why were the cops all aiming away from him? If he wasn’t the shooter, how the hell did he get hit? Ricochet, perhaps?

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 8:05 pm

It is very hard to hit a moving, armed target with a pistol, even from a few feet. Doesn’t surprise me they filled the air with lead in a crowded area trying to bring him down. I guess they should have just let him go.

Seriously, doesn’t anyone but me know anything about shooting handguns? No matter how good a shot you are it is very difficult to hit a moving target with a handgun. The barrel swing is just too difficult to control – fine motor skills are involved. Shoulda used shotguns – one shot and down for the count. If they miss with that, the can just blot up the bystanders, though.

sensetti
sensetti
August 25, 2012 8:16 pm

Here’s the answer to the question.

A US man has been rejected in his bid to become a police officer for scoring too high on an intelligence test.

This story says that the average I.Q. for a cop is 104, if that is accurate it means there are thousands of police with I.Q.’s in the 80-100 range. Is it any surprise then that incidents of police brutality and abuses upon citizens (as well as the Constitution) are now so frequent?

Police Reject Candidate for Being Too Intelligent

sensetti
sensetti
August 25, 2012 8:24 pm

This one speaks for it self
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sensetti
sensetti
August 25, 2012 8:27 pm

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Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 8:31 pm

Admin – I believe you re the cops. I disagree re the shooting. I have done a lot of shooting and the world’s greatest marksmen would be at risk of bringing down bystanders in that situation. And are you saying he was standing there like a statue? And I believe he had a gun?

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 8:42 pm

Best I can tell he had a gun, was moving some, and they were moving a lot. Same result. In fairness, saring down the barrel of a forty five would make me a bit jumpy and trigger happy too.

I was in a shop once where the guy at the counter took out a three fifty seven and blasted a hole I the back wall of the shop, for no apparent reason. He was between me and the exit. Scariest moment of m life. If I had been carrying I would have tried to shoot him, of that there is no doubt. But it woul hae been very difficult as adrenalin was pumping, ad he had a big gun himself. He put it away and I bet feet. Called the cops but don’t know the result.

Easy to criticize but I can tell you it is hard to hit a target while it is moving or you are moving and it is possibly shooting back.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 8:46 pm

Admin – in the old west, they would pull out their guns and empty them at one another from point blank distance – twelve shots would be fired – and when the smoke cleared both would be standing without a scratch.

I do not think much of cops. But it isn’t unusual they missed him with so many shots. Actually, if you know about shooting, it would be expected.

Muck About
Muck About
August 25, 2012 8:47 pm

Every time someone in NYC pull a gun and kills someone or causes someone to be killed, Bloomberg sounds and looks dumber and dumber and more stupid on top of that.

Of course, if one of the bystanders happened to be armed and pulled a 9mm and started trying to shoot the badguy, it would then GUARANTEE his demise by cop as every policeman in sight would be shooting at him rather than the bad guy.

In this case, there was no win for anyone. When bullets fly (especially from multiple weapons) there is no telling who’s gonna get popped. Best defense? Drop “pretend dead” on the spot so no one (including the bad guy) will pay you any more attention and shoot someone else. Been there, done that.

MA

IraK, usually known as -a-K---
IraK, usually known as -a-K---
August 25, 2012 9:01 pm

I think the NYPD officers have been playing Whack A Mole too much in their spare time.

Excited and fearful by someone near the Empire State Bldg, I think the police saw someones targets in range and they whacked them. Suspect or bystander, for them there was no difference.

Poor police training. That’s what I think.

Also, police officers knowing there’s little accountability for police over reaction may have let to reckless gunning.

Name changed by contributor who’s familiar with police actions in extreme situations yet is appalled by what occured in NYC and is most sympathetic for the innocent shooting victims.

Muck About
Muck About
August 25, 2012 9:17 pm

I stand by my advice.. Don’t try and run or hide or do anything to draw attention to yourself (unless you are armed and wish to stupidly get involved or HAVE to get involved to prevent further deaths). Just fall down “dead”, preferably bouncing your head off the pavement to look convincing. A bruise and black eye is far better than a hole in your chest.

If it looks like you’re in the line of fire, fall down faster and harder.

If you are being shot at by a drone or helicopter, as you fall, kiss your ass goodbye as they make up for not being accurate by dumping a lot of ammunition into the target area.

MA

Anonymous
Anonymous
August 25, 2012 9:23 pm

llpoh: Bull fucking shit.

As irak said…. poor training. They are supposed to be trained for that very situation. They are supposed to be aware of liability, they are supposed to be better than most on the move.

I assume a hefty lack of training due to increased need for persons on the beat.

No less, shooting that many innocent bystanders far exceeds any professional standard for “collateral damage”.

Sickening display of tactics, training and a severe lack of control. That’s all there is to it.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 9:24 pm

Of course they were shot by the cops. No argument from me. I just am calling bullshit if anyone thinks that shooting handguns at an armed perp is going to be anything other than an exercise in probabilities – the probability is that no more than half the shots fired at him at close range will hit him, and the probability decreases rapidly as distance increases. The half the shots that miss him will eventually hit something else – in crowded NYC that means people.

So either they shoot at him or they don’t. If they do, odds are bystanders will be hit. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. At least the weren’t carrying machine guns – they would have taken down dozens.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 9:29 pm

Another anonymous moron. I watched the vid – they had seconds to do what they did. Tactics my ass. Shoot him or not. I used to be a good shot – grew up shooting anything with a trigger. But combat handgun work is a roll of the dice at best.

Buy a fucking clue. I am sure they are trained. But odds are they never shot at another human in their life. No training for that, unless you want to volunteer. Douchebag.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 9:30 pm

Muck’s advice is pretty good. Run like hell isn’t a bad option either so long as all the folks with guns are behind you.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 9:42 pm

You ignorant shit for brains- I just looked up the stats on police shootings. Ninety percent of police shootings occur between zero and six feet. Do you know what the hit rate is? At effectively point blank range? Nineteen fucking percent. That’s right, asshole. Nineteen fucking percent.

These guys hit him around forty percent, so they are way better than average, and looks to me the distance was a bit further than six feet.

Damn, I sure hate it when I am right. People who know nothing about a subject should shut the fuck up.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 9:46 pm

Admin – no problem with your last comment at all. My point exactly. But once they started shooting, anyone saying they were incompetent in their shooting doesn’t know anything about shooting – they actually shot very accurately relative to normal performance. But whether they should have shot at him at all is the question.

printmemoney
printmemoney
August 25, 2012 9:50 pm

These idiots would be looking at a court martial for murder if they did this in Kabul……..

Thank God for the unions to protect them.

At least they’ll probably be relegated to the evidence locker…..where they can steal drugs and supplement their income.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 25, 2012 10:02 pm

As an aside, people using handguns for personal protection should keep those stats in mind: at point blank range, and by that I mean close enough to reach out and touch someone – in a stressful situation your odds are less than one in five that you will hit your target.

Another interesting star – since they went to semi autos cops now fire ten shots per incident, where prior to semis it was five. In firefights that says they point and shoot til it goes click, no matter what. This is another example of that, more or less.

printmemoney
printmemoney
August 25, 2012 10:14 pm

The reason the military went from full auto to semi-auto is similar. In Vietnam, the troops would go through the first magazine before they had a chance to identify where the enemy was firing from.

Anonymous
Anonymous
August 25, 2012 10:15 pm

That’s the point of training, Einstein. What part of my comment said anything about marksmanship?

Even pecker-shootin varmints with your daddy’s shotgun, llpoh’s idea of combat training, includes some sort of awareness of what’s beyond the target.

Not only for the civilians caught in the frey but fellow officers.

Bad training. Period.

llpoh
llpoh
August 25, 2012 10:37 pm

Admin – I said that the issue was whether to shoot or not. Once he pulled his piece it became shoot for sure. Then they were always gonna miss. I am kinda on your side on this. Don’t make me go feral.

Anonymous
Anonymous
August 25, 2012 10:38 pm

Administrator:

That would have been ideal, actually. A hit with limited overshoot.

Not perfect, but as far as liability is concerned, especially for home protection, a shotgun is as good as it gets.

WHAT IS BEYOND YOUR TARGET IS ALMOST IF NOT JUST AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR TARGET.

It looks like they were beat cops not in a cruiser. They probably didn’t have the option on hand (they don’t have shotguns on slings yet).

llpoh
llpoh
August 25, 2012 10:48 pm

Admin – I know. I hate em too.

bb
bb
August 25, 2012 11:11 pm

TO ALL, why do you hate police….. 50 years old and the police have been good to me even when they were locking me up.repect the cops and they will you in return.

FBD
FBD
August 25, 2012 11:17 pm

bb

Congrats on the DUMBEST FUCKING post of all time on TBP.

And learn how to spell. Maroon.

youcanthavemyglock
youcanthavemyglock
August 25, 2012 11:51 pm

Bloomberg should put those flower pots in every NYC police shooting range, that will evaluate the nycpd training to new heights, soon these dumbfucks can replace navy seal 6 team before you know it

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 26, 2012 12:18 am

Shotgun is the weapon of choice close range. Home protection is best done with a shotgun. Small bore will do the trik – 20 gauge is more than sufficient. And it wont go through walls and kill your kids on the other side.

Anonymous the dipshit – didn’t you read the post where they went to larger magazines for the military as they had the same problem as the cops – shoot ten times and hit nothing? Do you think Navy seals use handguns as their weapons of choice? You are dumber than a sack of rocks. Even if we trained the cops full time, in times of stress and surprise they are going to miss their targets. Shit, I have heard that at 25 feet a running man is almost impossible to hit – unload your Glock at him and hope to get lucky.

Rifles and shotguns are the way to go – preferably from behind cover.

How come anonymous posters tend to be retards?

bb
bb
August 26, 2012 12:32 am

TO FBD , why dumb , hate cops for doing thier job, they did what they do and if they would not have stop him there he would have killed again sooner or later. as my spelling goes i get in a hurry .alot of good posts to read . OVER ALL THE COPS HAVE BEEN GOOD TO ME .so relax FBD.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 26, 2012 12:34 am

Just read that the cops never had fired their guns on duty before. Wow. Imagine that.

I wonder how much it would cot to keep police trained up like Navy Seals, while at the same time having them carry out normal police duties?

bb
bb
August 26, 2012 12:40 am

TO FBD ,one more thing , YOU may need cops just like those to save YOUR ass one day.

Leobeer
Leobeer
August 26, 2012 12:41 am

Llpoh, Most cities are broke, they can’t afford further training for the cops.

Llpoh
Llpoh
August 26, 2012 1:14 am

Leo – I know. That was sarcasm.

FBD
FBD
August 26, 2012 1:15 am

dd

Unlike llpoh, I realize when I’m being trolled.

Nice try though. You get an “A” for effort.

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
August 26, 2012 1:28 am

Hey Anonymous:

My conclusion after going a sweaty round with your skank was that she needed “better training”.

Lucky for you, I had plenty of time and she had plenty of money… She’s a real “professional” now. It only took a few goes over a week which, I must say, pushed my limits… you know, with that face of hers only a mother could love.

Don’t thank me… consider it a public service.

youcanthavemyglock
youcanthavemyglock
August 26, 2012 1:30 am

Llpoh, are you replying to my post? it was sarcastic…I think after watching this video a normal person would conclude that these ‘cops’ have as much training for their job as a wal mart greeting lady.

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
August 26, 2012 1:43 am

FBD: You are a wily motherfucker.

llpoh
llpoh
August 26, 2012 1:45 am

Cops are not well trained in combat. Even were they, their hit rates wouldn’t be much better. As I have said, hitting an armed targetr with a pistol shot from point blank range is subject to the laws of probability. Shoot ten times hit target twice. It has been established in the military and the police that it is so – human nature is to flinch, move, duck, etc. In combat in WWII, only oneout of seven trained soldiers would actually shoot their rifles at the enemy during combat. The rest kept under cover or fired in the air, etcm

The comments about training are bullshit. Unless you train full-time and are in peak condition, and are totally prepared for combat at any instant, the results are predictible – people hide from danger and can’t hit the broad side of a barn.

Anyone thinking they can handle themselves in combat with a hand gun need to face reality – it is a rill of the dice – your dice against his.

Those cops did better than average once they started shooting. Thems the facts. Should they have chosen a different path? Maybe.

I know of two sharpshooters during combat – Sgt York and Audie Murphy.m. There are others but they are rare as hens teeth. Audie was either insane or the most cold blooded mother I ever heard of. Look up his exploits to see what valour is all about.

flash
flash
August 26, 2012 7:44 am

Loopy , just because you can’t hit a moving target with a handgun doesn’t mean others can’t.

I’ve had more than a few successful hunts using a handgun.

e.g.

FT
FT
August 26, 2012 11:51 am

Here’s a little more info on the YouTube video I posted from the prior thread of another of these idiots “handling” a different situation.

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-gun-shot-heard-across-the-web-the-shooting-of-star-the-dog?CID=obinsite

Take comfort, they can hit and kill a dog accurately at point blank range without hitting a single bystander. Hooray for Bloomberg’s soldiers!

Muck About
Muck About
August 26, 2012 2:05 pm

This little gem (llpoh note!) is a 20 ga. Mossberg model 500 with a tac stock. It lurks behind my bedroom door and is fully loaded – but has nothing in the chamber. It is light, handy, has an 18″ barrel and an open barrel (no choke). It’s location places it between me and any entrance to my home.

If it should ever be needed, I WANT the invader to hear the CLICK-CLACK of a round rocking into the chamber when I pump it. That is a sound that a casual burglar or a home invader (likely armed with a pistol or knife) would hate to hear and cause him to immediately reverse course and beat feet into the dark.

If he’s really stupid, the 20 ga. shells are loaded with #2 buck and will perforate his stupid ass very nicely at the twenty foot distance between where I will be and where he will be.

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It also doubles as a fine close in dove and pheasant shooter when loaded with #8 birdshot. The right tool is nice to have.

MA

Muck About
Muck About
August 26, 2012 2:07 pm

Well shit. That’s a little large, isn’t it.. That’s how big it looks to a burglar coming in a busted window or shattered door.

MA

a cruel accountant
a cruel accountant
August 26, 2012 5:40 pm

This is what happens when you give guns to government bureaucrats whose only job is to give tickets to people who jaywalk, did not renew their (fill in the blank )license, spit on the sidewalk, beggars, exercising their right to free speech, have koolade stands,

I believe in gun control for bureaucrats.

a cruel accountant
a cruel accountant
August 26, 2012 5:43 pm

These guys are not cops. They are free shit army with guns given to them by the government.

llpoh
llpoh
August 26, 2012 6:55 pm

Muck – nice! That is what I am taqlking about!

Flash and the rest of the dumbfucks taht think people can be Annie Oakley in a gunfight:

The fucking stats do not lie. At point blank range – and by that I mean zero to six feet – police hit their target (and by hit I do not mean torso, I mean just anywhere – arm, finger, testicle, whatever) less than 20% of the time. That stat hasn’t changed over the decades that it is tracked. Funny enough, the same type stats apply in the military – except worse, as they are shooting over greater distance.

Hitting an unarmed furry critter is not nearly the ame thing as hitting an armed opponent – not nearly. You folks that think you would be better than trained cops – trained porly cops quite possibly, but trained nonetheless – in an unexpected combat situation are clueless and totally full of shit. Thousands upon thousands of incidents have been tracked, and the stats remain the same – point blank range, armed opponent, odds of connecting under 20%, shoot your gun ’til empty and play the odds.

Stupid dickheads. Except for Muck. And the Admin, of course.