CHINA VS. JAPAN

A round-up of recent information on the Chinese saber-rattling. Just a reminder, the U.S. has forceably sided with Japan, and we have 53,000 troops in S. Korea and Japan. Chinese president Hu Jintao has repeatedly stated any attack on Iran would cause China to act, but hasn’t yet given specifics. China holds more than $2 trillion of our IOU’s (treasury bills). Dumping them would sink our economy no matter how much money Ben Bernake can print. Interest rates would rise rather quickly, and the U.S. wouldn’t be able to borrow much, considering our T-bills would become devalued significantly. China would cut off their nose despite their face if they dumped $2 trillion of dollar-based assets, but QEternity is inflating away their value faster than the Chinese can cash them in (China has been a net seller of treasuries for more than a year). China is actively trying to replace the dollar as reserve currency:

China And Russia Are Ruthlessly Cutting The Legs Out From Under The U.S. Dollar
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/china-and-russia-are-ruthlessly-cutting-the-legs-out-from-under-the-u-s-dollar

We are supporting rebels in Syria. Syria is supported by Iran, Iran is supported by China, so, in a round-about way, we are already engaged in this battle. The U.S. could not fight a two-front war (with Iran and China). China (and Russia) are the biggest nuclear threats to the U.S., Iran is not. This has all the makings of a disaster of biblical proportions, the perfect way to wind up a fourth turning. Keep your eyes on Asia. It’s a big deal.

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China Versus Japan: Shooting War, Economic War or War of Words?
Submitted by George Washington on 09/20/2012

Are China and Japan Going to War?

The conflict between China and Japan over a small chain of disputed islands – called “Senkaku” by Japan and “Diaoyu” by China – is fluid.

Here are some of the key recent events in this dispute:

Japan’s Ambassador to China died mysteriously, and Chinese police used tear gas and water cannons on anti-Japan protesters

A senior advisor to the Chinese government has called for an attack on the Japanese bond market to precipitate a funding crisis and bring the country to its knees

Chinese hackers have launched a cyber-attack against Japan, taking down at least 19 Japanese websites – including those of a government ministry, courts and a hospital – and adding messages proclaiming Chinese sovereignty over the islands

U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta says that China and Japan may be heading towards war

China’s most powerful military leader, in an unusual public statement, ordered military forces to prepare for combat, as Chinese warships deployed to waters near disputed islands. China is stepping up military exercises, and drilling its air force in Tibet

After Japanese foreign minister Koichiro Gemba met with Panetta, Gemba told the press that the Islands are covered by the security treaty between Japan and the US. In other words, Japan is claiming that America is siding with Japan

Beijing protesters surrounded the U.S. ambassador to China’s car. They inflicted some damage to his vehicle and briefly prevented it from entering the U.S. Embassy compound in Beijing.

The protesters chanted slogans such as (1) “down with the U.S. imperialists”; (2) “The U.S. government is the mastermind”, an apparent reference to the dispute over the island and the United States’ security treaty with Japan; and (3) “return the money!”, probably referring to the Chinese government’s purchase of U.S. government debt

What’s Going On?

The islands are small and uninhabited … so what’s really going on?

True, they are in important sea lanes. And the seabed nearby is thought to contain valuable mineral resources. But there are much bigger issues at play.

As Tyler Durden notes, Chinese anger over World War II is part of the equation:

All day long we read how today, on the 81st anniversary of Japan’s invasion of Manchuria, anti-Japan protests flared up in 125 Chinese cities, for the most part peaceful, protesting what China believes is an illegal Japanese attempt at annexation of the Senkaku Islands as a proximal catalyst, but likely also an outlet for years of pent up anti-Japanese sentiment (of which there is plenty on both sides).

Some say that the incident is really about China testing (1) Japan’s weaknesses and (2) America’s alliance with Japan:

Steven Clemons, editor-at-large of The Atlantic, says the two nations are probing the other’s weaknesses.

“It is really about China testing the United States and its alliance with Japan,” he told RT, adding that he expects the skirmishes to continue for a long time.

“What we are seeing today is a snapshot of what we are going to see for the next decade – or more.”

Indeed, while U.S. SecDef Panetta says that American military focus in Asia are not aimed at containing China, Panetta and other American leaders have previously hinted that any credible economic challenge to the U.S.(from China or elsewhere) will be considered an act of war.

Anyone who has 2 brain cells to rub together knows that the “long-game” of U.S. military shenanigans is to contain and weaken China. The U.S. wants to topple Syria’s Assad because he is a close ally with Iran, and the U.S. wants to topple Iran because it is a close ally with China.

But what does that have to do with Japan?

I spoke with a very smart friend who grew up in China, has lived in the United States for a number of years, and has a very sophisticated view of geopolitics. (He is a professional and an entrepreneur, and isn’t directly affiliated with the Chinese government).

He told me that the Chinese and Japanese have periodically argued over these islands, and reminded me that the Chinese people are still furious at Japanese imperial invasion and brutality during WWII, especially Nanking and Manchuria.

Most interestingly, he said that the Chinese and Japanese both have upcoming elections, and that they are simply posturing to look tough for domestic consumption.

He said that the Chinese and Japanese leadership both know where the “line” is, and that neither will cross the line and actually start a war.

Willy Lam, Adjunct Professor, China Studies, Chinese University Of Hong Kong agrees:

From the Beijing’s perspective there will be a major change of leadership coming up at the 18th Party Congress. At this stage the government also doesn’t want to appear as weak. Particularly given the rise of Chinese nationalism.

Likewise, Linus Hagström – associate professor of political science and a senior research fellow at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs – says that Japan’s actions are largely driven by political considerations of “not appearing weak”.

Currently, China is Japan’s largest trade partner, while Japan is only China’s fourth-largest trade partner. However, the United States is obviously a huge trade partner for China, even if America does end up backing Japan in conflict over the islands.

So the one certainty is that there are competing factors and motives involved in the dispute.

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18 Comments
Welshman
Welshman
September 21, 2012 8:11 am

1.350 Billion Chinese vs 127 Million Japanese. I know who sleeps better at night.

Hollow man
Hollow man
September 21, 2012 8:25 am

Add 300 million Americans, the China man just laughs and says so what we have nukes too. You crazy Americians, you sold you sold your young ha ha ha!

flash
flash
September 21, 2012 9:21 am

Anybody taking any odds on a global dust-up between China/Russia/Iran versus USA/UK/Japan?

If so, what are they?

Balzytch
Balzytch
September 21, 2012 9:43 am

China, Japan shadow boxing over rocks – for now

HONG KONG (Reuters) – The dispute between China and Japan over a desolate jumble of rocky islets in the East China Sea has taken a familiar turn with Beijing deploying a fleet of paramilitary patrol ships while similar Japanese vessels steam out in response.

As in earlier disputes over rocks and shoals in the South China Sea, Beijing is relying on these vessels rather than more menacing warships to assert its sovereignty over the disputed islands known as Diaoyu in China and Senkaku in Japan.

For both sides, the presence of lightly armed paramilitary ships reduces the risk of conflict, maritime experts say, while they retain the option of deploying more firepower if the dispute intensifies.

However, unlike China’s recent sparring with the Philippines over Scarborough Shoal, this flare-up pits East Asia’s two maritime powers against each other in a confrontation loaded with military risk.

If a clash erupted, experts warn it could be difficult to contain to the disputed area and would likely draw in the United States, Japan’s security alliance partner, into hostilities with China.

Balzytch
Balzytch
September 21, 2012 9:46 am

And, lest you forget, N. Korea and S. Korea are still technically at WAR!

South Korea fires on North Korean fishing boats
By SAM KIM | Associated Press

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — South Korea’s navy fired warning shots Friday toward North Korean fishing boats that crossed a disputed maritime boundary, but the shots didn’t hit the fishing boats and the vessels retreated, a South Korean official said.

Fishing boats routinely jostle for position in the seafood-rich Yellow Sea waters claimed by both countries during crab-catching season, which is now in high gear. Three deadly naval clashes since 1999 have taken a few dozen lives. The disputed sea boundary is not clearly marked, and incursions by North Korean military and fishing boats are not unusual.

No North Korean navy ships were involved in Friday’s incident along a tense western sea boundary that the North has long refused to recognize, an official with South Korea’s Joint Chiefs of Staff said, speaking anonymously because of office policy.

Six North Korean fishing boats crossed the boundary and refused to return until the South Korean Navy fired the warning shots, the official said.

North Korean fishing boats already crossed the boundary four times earlier this month but retreated each time after being warned by the South, the official said. Seoul says North Korean fishing boats also crossed the boundary in April.

The Korean War ended nearly 60 years ago with a truce, not with a peace treaty, so the U.S.-led U.N. Command divided the Yellow Sea without Pyongyang’s consent. The boundary favored South Korea, cutting North Korea off from rich fishing waters and boxing in one of its crucial deep-water ports. North Korea has bitterly contested the line ever since.

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ThePessimisticChemist
ThePessimisticChemist
September 21, 2012 9:47 am

@flash

Pretty good I’d say.

For the record, everybody loses in that scenario. The “dear leaders” will see it through though. The poor bastards get bored all day, they need something to do! Real world Risk is just what the doctor ordered!

Hopefully invade Siberia and not Kamchatka though.

Because fuck Kamchatka.

Hope@ZeroKelvin
Hope@ZeroKelvin
September 21, 2012 9:57 am

Crap, those islands don’t even look like they have a good beach.

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Stucky
Stucky
September 21, 2012 10:24 am

Do we really have to play “Black Swan” with every new crisis? Is every new conflict really the potential Tipping Point that sends us hurling towards Armageddon?

Neither China nor Japan will go to war over some fucking uninhabited islands. There is no story here. Move along.

Thunderbird
Thunderbird
September 21, 2012 10:50 am

Perhaps it is time to stop listening to the Khazars running our government and turn loose Taiwan on China. These people (that are our allies) want their homeland back and they can assist us to leash in North Korea by keeping the Chinese at bay.

We cannot win a war with China by using our men to fight them. In fact we would be doing them a favor to fight them because we would be helping them in population reduction while losing many of our own men. But turning Taiwan on them would be a different thing because of family ties.

Perhaps it is time to remove our ships from the straits between Taiwan and the Chinese mainland and allow Chiang Kai Sheks descendants to finish what we have all these years kept them from doing; taking back the mainland and driving out the communists.

Fool on The Hill
Fool on The Hill
September 21, 2012 11:04 am

To avoid war……………..

DRAFT WOMEN!!!

Divorcees first.

Start with multiple alimony queens.

They should love the free lunch and laundry.

Give them an equal opportunity to create the freedom they have always enjoyed while others suffered and died.

They should love the combat pay!

Thunderbird
Thunderbird
September 21, 2012 11:39 am

America’s threat is from within; not Russia or China. China’s threat is from Taiwan.

Colma Rising
Colma Rising
September 21, 2012 12:05 pm

Her Stuchenbatin’:

It’s not the islands at the root of the issue:

It’s the resource (drilling) rights in a 200 mile radius… Add the bad blood and chauvinism that makes the clan look like kittens and yes, there could be a story.

Big Bad World Wars have been accelerated over far less.

Llpoh
Llpoh
September 21, 2012 4:03 pm

The Chinese have a lot of reason to hate the Japanese. They have not forgotten WWII atrocities. Cannot say I blame them. I knew some vets that never forgot, either. The Japs were truly evil. Why should that be forgotten? It was only 67 years ago – within the lifetimes of many victims and witnesses.

Stucky
Stucky
September 21, 2012 4:10 pm

I was born at night, but not last night.

The hatred between Japan and China is well known. That’s why you’re seeing the protests and saber ratteling. They will go so far …. and ONLY so far, but not a war. Neither side has anything to gain, and much to much to lose.

Maybe at some point in time the Chinks will get even with the Nips …. but not over this bullshit.

Hollow man
Hollow man
September 21, 2012 9:09 pm

Stuck could be right about that. But what of the china man just wants to see how weak we really. Probe us for resolve, ability. You never really know.