Posted on 22nd October 2012 by Administrator in Economy |Politics |Social Issues



  1. Administrator says:



    22nd October 2012 at 4:48 pm

  2. Administrator says:



    22nd October 2012 at 4:49 pm

  3. sensetti says:

    It looks like Admin is making the case that the younger generation is the screwed generation.


    22nd October 2012 at 4:50 pm

  4. Muck About says:





    22nd October 2012 at 4:55 pm

  5. Llpoh says:

    I will hire them when they take off those thumb rings. But no-o, they are no gonna do that. Plus they ain’t gonna work in no stinking factory for no $50k per year, where they would actually have to work!

    It is not so simple as it appears. Many of these kids are damn choosy when it comes to work. You should see the horror on their faces when they see the factory and hear the start time is 7 am.


    22nd October 2012 at 4:58 pm

  6. Muck About says:

    @llpoh: Send them home!



    22nd October 2012 at 4:59 pm

  7. Muck About says:

    @llpoh: How long are you going to last after 2014 if Obamacare is not repealed? Just asking..



    22nd October 2012 at 5:00 pm

  8. Llpoh says:

    Muck – I provide bennies so I am, best I can tell, somewhat protected by that event. Some of the tax and reg issues are likely to be a bigger problem. And China – always there is the impact of China.

    One day at a time. And hope my competitors fail first. That would really help, and is a high probability scenario.


    22nd October 2012 at 5:14 pm

  9. Stan says:

    The future of a lot of college graduates is to live in moms basement.

    And to be honest, it ain’t that bad a deal. You swallow he pride and watch tv all day. You have plenty to eat and pay no bills. Sure you are a worthless piece of crap but who care? You got it made!!!

    You need to get married push out some puppies and buy a house and 2 cars. You need several credit cards maxed out that you pay the min payment on.

    You are missing out on life u basement dwelling freeloader!!!


    22nd October 2012 at 5:25 pm

  10. Colma Rising says:

    Llpoh: What if NASA mohawk guy applied?


    22nd October 2012 at 6:20 pm

  11. Eddie says:

    Two of my four twenty-somethings live at home…as well as two boyfriends. Another one of my kids lives across town in a dump I pay for…and he’s thinking about moving home for a while, if his Mom will okay it. I hope he does. It would save me money.

    They are, each and every one of them, either (a) studying their ass off in school or (b) working their ass off at a job, or (c) both of the above. Each of them in in pursuit of a dream of some kind and I’m trying to help.

    I have a special name for this. I call it “family”.

    None of my kids owes a penny in student loans. I’ve paid for two college tuitions and I’m busy paying for two more at the moment. It’s money well spent, even if they never use the degrees they’re getting. They are learning how to bust their asses to accomplish their goals. At this point I’m not sure they even know what their ultimate goals will be. But they damn sure aren’t watching TV much or playing video games. We don’t own a TV that’s hooked up to cable and we don’t own a game console.

    My wife just bought my son a camping mattress because he often works late into the night in the studio at the university and he’d like to be able to sleep there if he doesn’t have the energy to drive back home when he’s done. A real slacker, that kid.

    Just don’t fall into that trap of overgeneralizing, that’s all I’m saying. I know some young people who have accomplished some fairly amazing things. And not just my own kids, but some of their friends and acquaintances are managing to bootstrap businesses and start non-profits. Don’t sell these Millenials too short. They might just surprise you before it’s over.


    22nd October 2012 at 6:36 pm

  12. Administrator says:


    The fact that your post got three thumbs down says it all. The older generations want to tear down the younger generations for the problems they created. The arrogance is breathtaking to behold. They project their failings upon kids who’ve barely begun their lives. Disgusting but typical. The shallowest generation earned their motto.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:31 pm

  13. LLPOH says:

    Colma – mohawks are a safety issue (seriously!!).

    Eddie – glad you are having positive experiences. Not too sure that two live in boyfriends would be acceptable in my house – in fact, I know it would not be. My experience with the young is far different than yours, by and large.


    22nd October 2012 at 6:51 pm

  14. Kepi says:

    As a college grad who spent 8 months in mom’s basement, I wish I could say I really had a choice. The jobs were starting college grads at $10/hour as a standard and the bare minimum standard of living required $13/hr (and I’m talking the bare minimums, too – rent, utilities, food, car, gas). I guess the reason it’s worth mentioning is because it helps fuel the youth haters. You’re at home, you can’t afford to move out (I got out with less than half the loan debt than average), and so what do you do ? You aquire the posessions you can afford. I’m there buying, honestly, 2 videogames a week, DVDs just… Because? Starbucks every day because it was the easiest, cheapest way to get outta the house. About the only good thing I did was buy a semi reasonable amount of office friendly clothing.

    And I stayed that way for 8 months contributing to my own decay, why? Because the opportunity to move out was just beyond my grasp. I busted my ass and argued my boss for a promotion because as an employee in that zeroth year of experience, nobody wanted to take the risk, and why would they? They had all these unpaid interns they had experience with they could promote up. Once I managed to get out of mom’s house, all that nonsense stopped. Why? I’d been granted the ability to participate in adult life… And guess what? Like magic, I acted like one!

    And that’s one of the things Boomers and Gen X needs to realize and tone down their “pay your dues/pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, blah, blah, blah, entitled youth yadda yadda” bullshit. Most of those guys and girls fresh out of college are pushed into a really tough market, they don’t have the advantage of experience, they were fed expectations that were obviously false, but none of that really matters. If the older generations managing newer workers were honest and said “Yeah, we totally know it’s not easy and our world hasn’t panned out the way we thought it would, but if you do what needs be done you’ll get what you need and some of what you want.” they’d go a lot farther.

    Part of the reason I think this isn’t being said and instead newer workers are getting the offensive, angry line is because most people don’t want to face the sacred cow issues we all were sold on believing which have contributed to our current state. People are so intent on absolving themselves of any responsibility of maintaining their society, they’d rather dickoff to people and self-righteously insist on their absolute purity instead of teaming up and fixing problems.


    22nd October 2012 at 6:55 pm

  15. Eddie says:

    ” Not too sure that two live in boyfriends would be acceptable in my house – in fact, I know it would not be.”

    The thing is, even when I was in college nearly forty years ago, young people cohabited without the benefit of clergy. Me, I wanted to make my good Christian parents happy and so I got married shortly before my 21st birthday. Not really a good idea, as it turned out.

    So I’m just a little more liberal in that regard than my parents were. Call it experience.

    My girls seem to have the ability to pick these amazing young men….winners, who are responsible for their own lives..who contribute to our extended family. If they were deadbeats, I’d never allow it. I don’t know if these partnerships will last forever….one of them at least seems to be an incredibly good match from what I see…but if they don’t, there won’t be any lawyers to pay.

    None of these kids is eager to bring any more kids into the world. I think they must use four kinds of birth control.

    Maybe we’re a little unconventional. It works fine for us.


    22nd October 2012 at 7:10 pm

  16. LLPOH says:

    Kepi – what a load of self-serving, unmitigated horseshit. Boohoo – poor fucking you. You had money to but video games and DVDS and Starbucks – so you were not poor. You do not understand poor. Poor cannot afford that shit.

    “Fed expectation” – that is simply denial of any personal responsibility and is an attempt to shove personal responsibility onto someone else.

    Then there is your crap about maybe if the older folks talked nicer to you (“toned it down”? Why don’t you toughen the fuck up?) it would work out better. What bullshit. You are a spoiled generation, and your remarks simply reinforce it.

    Suck it up, you pansy. Not my fault you do not have any experience that I can make money on. Not my fault your skills are only worth $10 per hour. Not my fault you spent your time playing video games instead of getting better skills. Not my fault you thought you were entitled to be able to afford going out.

    That is what the world is about – personal responsibility. It has always been tough out in the real world – always. But the current young do not understand how to overcome adversity – and DVDs and video games and Starbucks (and I bet you had a mobile phone, too, huh?) and igadgets are not the way.

    Damn, I cannot ever remember a more whiny-ass post.


    22nd October 2012 at 7:14 pm

  17. LLPOH says:

    Eddie – less talking about the morality of it and more talking about that I am not sure that I would be willing to accept the cost and inconvenience – maybe they are covering their costs for all I know. Again, glad it is working for you.


    22nd October 2012 at 7:19 pm

  18. AWD says:

    What a pathetic mess. I’d rather die than move back in with my parents. 55,000 manufacturing facilities and 8 million jobs have moved overseas. Yet, people keep buying foreign goods. Same old story.

    Our economy is so fucked. 100 million people don’t work and get free housing and everything else. People that finish college and want to work can’t find decent jobs, can’t buy houses, and can’t/shouldn’t start a family.

    Believe it or not, I see people in their twenties trying to get on disability. And, as more people are getting on disability than are getting jobs, the trend will continue ad infinitum. Getting on disability offers a great life, you can move out of mom and dad’s basement, afford a new car, free housing, medical, free food, free cash, and, unless I’m mistaken, their student loan debt is forgiven. And you don’t ever have to work a day in your life ever again. What’s the downside?


    22nd October 2012 at 7:42 pm

  19. AWD says:


    Do I understand correctly: you let guys shack up with your daughters in your house?

    That’s fucked up.


    22nd October 2012 at 7:45 pm

  20. AWD says:

    I finally figured out what Lipoh produces at his factory:



    22nd October 2012 at 7:49 pm

  21. Kepi says:

    LLOPH, clearly you’re pretty delusional on this one. $10/hour was the standard salary for a starting position back in 2004. Not just here, but in every major city. Where I was living, it wouldn’t pay rent while allowing you to buy food and pay for your car and your gas and the electricity and water which are all required to be a member of modern society. It was an impossibility. But I was still working and still making that $10/hour. What else would I spend it on? I’m living at home, of course I’m going to spend it on garbage I don’t need as an escape to that reality. That’s just human nature, can’t get what you need, you’ll take the next best thing.

    And I didn’t get a cellphone until it was required by my job inorder to get that $3/hr promotion so I could move out. And to this day I still don’t have a landline, still don’t have cable TV, and have never bought a car less than 5 years old. You can bitch and moan about how soft people are, but the otherside of the equation: things we need have gotten proportionall more expensive while things that we don’t have gotten proportionally less expensive as time has gone on.

    I can buy 5 new 32 inch TV’s a month for the price of my mortgage, HOA dues and utilities. That’s how cheap TVs have gotten. I could buy a dozen Kindle Fires and Still have enough left over to go out for the price of my mortgage… And I bought after the housing bubble burst. This is why it’s an economic problem, not something that will be resolved by a bunch of old guys vomitting vitrol for no functional purpose.


    22nd October 2012 at 7:50 pm

  22. LLPOH says:

    Wow – Kewpie has gotten 4 thumbs up so far for the whiniest post in TBP history. Kewpie crying about his lot in life:


    He reminds me of this guy:



    22nd October 2012 at 7:50 pm

  23. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    This thread screams “TPC CHAMPEENS THE MILLENIALS”….but I’m tired. Of all of it. Millenials are witless wonders and Boomers are entitled sacks of shit.

    Just a few comments:
    ” I bet you had a mobile phone, too, huh?”

    We didn’t have a home phone after 2000, so yeah, I had a mobile phone. You kind of need a phone number if you are trying to get hired by places, and if you are working a part time job and going to college odds are you not sitting at home by the phone anyway.

    If you don’t have a mobile phone where work can contact you, your ass isn’t getting hired. In this day and age, if you aren’t available 24/7 to work any shift possible you aren’t a team player and are expendable.

    “Video games”

    $15 a month and infinite replayability, yeah I played video games as my only mode of entertainment for years. Its cheaper than anything else.

    After a day of work and school, forgive me for not trying to round out my skill sets.


    22nd October 2012 at 7:55 pm

  24. LLPOH says:

    Kewpie asks what else would he spend it on, it is only human nature! Bwahahahahaha! My point exactly. It is Kewpie’s human nature – and he cannot even realize that the right answer is that he should have saved the money and that he should have used the time beneficially. No – these young folks do not even realize how deluded they are – that spending all their money and calling it “human nature” is all fucked up and is totally ass-backwards.

    “Hey – it is not my fault that I am broke and have to live at home with mom and dad – it is all nature’s fault, not mine. I do not have free will – my nature my nature makes me go and spend all my money.”

    Seriously, that is some really stupid stuff going on there. I had to live at home when I was young – I saved every damn cent – it never would have occured to me to blow my money – it certainly was not my human nature to do that.

    Where do these kids get these idiotic ideas? We are oh so fucked unless people start understanding they need to take responsibility for themselves and quit blaming nature, the weather, the Boomers, etc for their ills. Yep, life is hard and getting harder. Tough shit – it is what it is. Do what you can to change things, but blaming others will not cut it.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:01 pm

  25. Administrator says:



    22nd October 2012 at 8:40 pm

  26. LLPOH says:

    TPC – poor little you. Phhht. Cry me a river. “I deserve my relax time”. Horseshit. Justify it all you want. I know what long hours and hard work are – we all make decisions that affect us going forward. When some folks were playing video games, I was working 110+ hours a week. You do what you have to do, or you suffer the consequences. Young people need to put in the time and effort while young to reap the rewards while old. That little gem of truth is being forgotten or ignored.

    This self-entitled sack of shit old boomer worked for everything he has, owes not a living soul, and knows what it takes to increase the odds of success. The idea of “entitled to my leisure time” is not part of what it takes, but whatever.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:08 pm

  27. Kepi says:

    Are you incapable of reading and writing? I was there for all of 8 months. I got out quick, because it is a recurseive trap and I have seen people get caught in it. Also, the “I saved every damn cent?” Bullshit. I bet you fart tachyons and smell time itself, too. I know a guy who lived a lot longer at home and saved a lot of money, but he still bought and kicks himself occasionally for the money he wasted. It’s called being 23 and having more than a part time job for the first time in your life. Minus responsibilities and guess what you’re gonna get?


    22nd October 2012 at 8:24 pm

  28. LLPOH says:

    Kewpie – I was surely a bit more frugal than young folk of today. I grew up poor – not the Big Screen TV/igadget/Nike por of today, but really, actually poor. I have worked a job continuously since I was 12. I know what I am talking about, and you, sir, are an idiot without enough life experience to comment. You wouldn’t have a fucking clue – when I say I did not waste a cent, I meant it. I needed the money, and if the shit hit the fan, it would well and truly have hit the fan. Homeless was always a distinct possibility. So shut the fuck up and learn something rather than shoot your fucking mouth off.

    You may not be from an extremely entitled background, but you have no idea about poverty, deprivation, and the need to make sure you pull yourself out of that at all costs. And the fact is, the young need to assume that position – they need to work as if they may become destitute at any moment – because the fact is, that may be the future for them if they do not.

    You really do not get it. Young and stupid is still stupid, and there is no excuse for stupid, despite you wanting there to be. Stupid is as stupid does, and spending money on frivouous items and wasting the valuable commodity of time is stupid. The penalty for so doing is going to be severe.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:36 pm

  29. Stucky says:

    “Yeah, we totally know it’s not easy and our world hasn’t panned out the way we thought it would, but if you do what needs be done you’ll get what you need and some of what you want.” they’d go a lot farther.” ————— What Kepi would like his future employer to say

    Not a bad post, and I generally sympathize with you ….. BUT you live in la-la land. If you find an employer like that above, take the job and hang onto it for dear life even if it only pays minimum wage. But ……… you won’t. Except in la-la land.

    And stop blaming others for your “fed expectations”. Llpoh stated correctly, you and you alone are responsible for your expectations.

    You must have majored in a really useless major to make so little money. Just I guess. I could be wrong, but you sure as shit didn’t major in, say, computer science.

    Lastly, you waste a shitload of money!! Add up all those Starbucks and other trinkets you buy for yourself to ease your pain. Figure out the costs for a year. Shitloads, right? Right! Instead of complaining about the older generations, maybe you should befriend a Silent … someone who lived through the Great Depression. They could teach you a thing or two about saving and scrimping. Oh … they didn’t bitch and complain about it either.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:36 pm

  30. LLPOH says:

    Admin – I hope that was not pointed at me. I have no desire to tear down anything. I could give a shit about the /boomers and their failings – at this stage that issue is what it is. But I do indeed care that the younger generatin do not, best I can tell, understand what confronts them in general, they do not understand about thrift, they do not understand about work ethic, they do not understand about self-sacrifice. I am sure the same can be said about Boomers. But their time is passed.

    The young are facing enormously difficult times and their futures will be full of obstacles. The need to kick it into overdrive, and abandon the playtime and expectations of liesure and white collar jobs for the asking, and move into survival mode. Tyhe idea of “entitled” to thinks has failed. The sooner they put those ideas aside, the better equiped they will be for the future.

    It is a serious business. I se a whole different demographic than most, and I am here to tell you, the young are in for some very serious lumps. The do not have the work ethic nor the education notr the mind-set nor the willingness to tackle the obstacles that confront them. They are about playtime and entitlement.

    Work-ethic, thrift, and a willingness to do anything is what the young will need. I hope they are ready. I fear not.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:47 pm

  31. Administrator says:


    Did youths in the sixties and seventies have some tremendous work ethic and abilities that youth today do not? If you say yes, then you are full of shit.

    The old farts in the 1930’s thought the GI Generation was a bunch of worthless pieces of shit that liked to party.

    Times change and the game remains the same.

    Context and perspective are always the missing pieces in the scorn and ridicule heaped upon kids who haven’t started their lives yet.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:56 pm

  32. Chronic Agitator says:

    Hey Eddie,
    Do you have any spare daughters and a bed room?


    22nd October 2012 at 8:48 pm

  33. LLPOH says:

    Stuck – couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Admin – nice pic. I am really photogenic.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:50 pm

  34. Stucky says:


    Even Kepi admits he contributed to his “own decay” by the choices he made. I don’t see it as tearing down Kepi. Rather, it’s called “tough love”.

    Some, but not all, of his post(s) come across as whiney.
    He has an unrealistic view of employers.
    He’d rather spend than save.
    He blames others.

    These are not good traits. Why enable them with an “Atta boy!”.

    On the plus side, he did get out of his mom’s basement, he busts his ass, and he has embraced the “adult life”. That’s fantastic.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:50 pm

  35. Administrator says:


    My comment was directed to Eddie.



    22nd October 2012 at 8:52 pm

  36. ThePessimisticChemist says:


    “TPC – poor little you. Phhht. Cry me a river. “I deserve my relax time”. Horseshit. Justify it all you want. I know what long hours and hard work are – we all make decisions that affect us going forward. When some folks were playing video games, I was working 110+ hours a week. You do what you have to do, or you suffer the consequences. Young people need to put in the time and effort while young to reap the rewards while old. That little gem of truth is being forgotten or ignored.”

    Wow, you read a lot into my single post.

    Careful llpoh, your stupid is showing.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:51 pm

  37. LLPOH says:

    Stuck – how come you said much the same as I did, and you got lots of thumbs up already? How unfair! I am gonna go whine about it to my kids and wife – learned how to do that from Kewpi.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:52 pm

  38. AWD says:


    I have a spare bedroom and a nice kitchen. I’ll do you a favor and save you some money with your daughter. Can I get a test drive first?


    22nd October 2012 at 8:53 pm

  39. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @llpoh –

    “they do not understand about work ethic, they do not understand about self-sacrifice.”

    I get this a lot based on my age.

    Then they find out about my life growing up, and then about what I did to make it through college.

    In the real world I have the benefit of those who have seen me do these things backing me up. Alas, this is the internet, and I’m not giving you names/references so I can “win” a debate on this mostly anonymous forum.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:53 pm

  40. LLPOH says:

    TPC – I am a lot of things, and have some major quirks and flaws, for sure. But of all the things I am, stupid is indeed not one of them.

    Bring it on, but you better bring yourself a change or diapers or two.


    22nd October 2012 at 8:55 pm

  41. LLPOH says:

    TPC – I have read some of your background, and commend you for overcoming adversity. Truly. But you did engage me above, now didn’t you? We all have some adversity, some of us more than others. Whining and crying about it is of no help to any of us. Yound folk really need to gird their loins for battle, as the times are going to be brutal, and playtime will likely be a thing of the past compared to what they have seen growing up.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:01 pm

  42. Kill Bill says:

    College is no more a ticket to an automatic job than going to a trade school.

    My dad basically tossed me out of the house when I was 18.

    I really dont want to hear this “I had no choice but to move back in with my parents” stuff.

    My daughter, when she turned 18, got her a job as a waitress {now 25} and has never moved back home. She doesnt make alot of money but she manages and is happy.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:04 pm

  43. Stucky says:

    Admin — I didn’t think it was directed at me. I thought it was directed at llpoh. LOL But it was that cur fucker Eddie the Bad Egg. Double LOL

    llpoh — we posted twice at the same time with the same thoughts. Amazing minds, us two. The only thing I can attribute the voting to is that I have a pretty powerful brother. Jeebus. He posts here from time to time.

    Kepi — My writing style may not have reflected it …. but I ONLY wish the very best for you. I am glad I am not your age. Hopefully, I’ll be dead (of natural causes) when the shit hits the fan. You won’t be. With few exceptions (like, parents) no one will EVER hand you jack-shit in this life. You’re on your own. Good luck.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:04 pm

  44. AWD says:


    I agree with your points, but you really have to take into account who were their parents,

    Baby boomers?

    They’re doomed


    22nd October 2012 at 9:07 pm

  45. Stucky says:

    AWD / Eddie

    I do NOT like it when we use our children as fodder for jokes. Not one bit. Especially when incest is joked about. It’s not funny. Stop it.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:09 pm

  46. flash says:

    Kepi, Mittens feels your pain.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:11 pm

  47. LLPOH says:

    Admin – the kids I grew up with and around had a work ethic you would not understand, or you would not make the comment you did. As I said, I have worked since I was 12. As did the kids I knew and hung out with, more or less. I cannot speak for the whole country. Re abilities – the kids I knew were far advanced to those I see today in many ways – anything to do with work they were better – harder working, etc. They had better life skills, fixing things, cooking, cleaning, tending animals, etc. Again, those were the ones I knew, so yes, they had better abilities in those areas. They had better math skills, could make change for instance, etc. Again, those were my experiences.

    In my humble opinion, the youth today have become softened as a result of the material society they grew up in. I have much more experience with young adults and their work ethics, their skills and abilities, etc., than anyone else I know that posts on this site, when it comes to holding a job and doing work. I employ them – and have employed hundreds of them. I know what I am talking about.

    Most young adults I encounter are not prepared to hold down a job, at least not in manufacturing. They lack the discipline to do so. That was not the case when I was younger.

    Full of shit? Seriously? I would say my experience in this area matches up well with most anyone. Do you think I invent what I am seeing every day?


    22nd October 2012 at 9:12 pm

  48. Administrator says:


    You are right. YOU are not representative of the youth in America. Trying to generalize about a generation on your own experience is narrow minded and a false representation. Plain and simple.

    You are actually going to tell me the youth from the 60s were hard working, intelligent, nose to the grindstone kids. That’s a good one.

    Please don’t insult my intelligence.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:42 pm

  49. Administrator says:


    22nd October 2012 at 9:43 pm

  50. Administrator says:


    22nd October 2012 at 9:45 pm

  51. Administrator says:

    The Roaring 20s were a time when youth really buckled down.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:52 pm

  52. AWD says:

    yes, terribly bad taste. I’m probably older than Eddie.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:13 pm

  53. Stucky says:

    AWD — thanks for understanding.

    llpoh vs Admin
    llpoh vs TPC

    Just like the Germans in WWI, ol’ llpoh fails to understand the perils of a two-front war.

    This is waaay more fun than the POTUS debates.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:22 pm

  54. Kepi says:

    Stucky, tense matters. Wasted a lot of money. The situation changed. I wasted money until I could make enough money to afford to get out on my own, situation directs behavior, not the other way arround.

    And now where I work, they don’t quite say that but they admit to the difficulty of the job. They aren’t as reflective as I’d like and they still make 5 bad decisions for every good one they make, but they pay a decent wage and they fully understand that nobody wants to work 12 hour shifts with the possibility of more, but that’s the reality of the job. There’s a lot of BS that comes with it, but there’s always enough of at least the lower level management to grasp the concept that we’re run by moonbat idiots to give you a level of protection from the moonbat clients and management.

    And I totally do take responsibility for my actions. I wasted some money. It wasn’t a good time in my life.

    As for the degree, the problem was that there wasn’t any need for more college degrees. There’s still not. We, as a society, have over 5 times the degrees we need. The upper middle class makes up roughly 5% of society. About, what? 28% of people have a 4 year degree or higher? There’s just no need for a college education for at least 4/5ths of those people.

    I knew a girl with an accounting degree who was shoveling her $10/hr job just outta college in Chicago, and another guy who had a masters who worked for $10/hr for a year before he found a real job. When your competition is frequently a double dipping retiree with a degree and 20+ years experience… You’re not going to be considered for the job much more frequently, and most likely the $10/hr starting wage is punishment for not having worked an unpaid internship while in college.

    Now where it’s going to get entertaining is when Millennials finally say “screw it, close enough” and start having families, because that increases the liklihood one will vote and participate in more than presidential elections. There’s where you’re going to see the entitlements getting ripped out from under the boomers, that’s where you’ll see laws getting passed against the bank and corporate interests, and that’s where things will start getting done. The reality Boomers have wanted to limp on won’t be acceptable, and watch it get changed in 5 years time.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:22 pm

  55. Kill Bill says:

    Off your ass
    On your feet
    Outta the shade
    Into the heat
    You got to work
    If you want to eat


    22nd October 2012 at 9:24 pm

  56. AWD says:

    Interesting point,

    Who’s going to support Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, entitlements, 54% of the population living off the government, 100 million on welfare, 14 million on disability, the military spending etc.when an entire generation is in massive debt, no jobs, living with their parents?

    Lipoh, Admin, myself, and people that worked their asses off and put themselves through school are going to be taxed out of existence. And all the borrowing and debt, $1 trillion or more a year. How long until it all collapses?


    22nd October 2012 at 9:32 pm

  57. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    My post:

    “Just a few comments:
    ” I bet you had a mobile phone, too, huh?”

    We didn’t have a home phone after 2000, so yeah, I had a mobile phone. You kind of need a phone number if you are trying to get hired by places, and if you are working a part time job and going to college odds are you not sitting at home by the phone anyway.

    If you don’t have a mobile phone where work can contact you, your ass isn’t getting hired. In this day and age, if you aren’t available 24/7 to work any shift possible you aren’t a team player and are expendable.

    “Video games”

    $15 a month and infinite replayability, yeah I played video games as my only mode of entertainment for years. Its cheaper than anything else.

    After a day of work and school, forgive me for not trying to round out my skill sets.”
    We had a cellphone, and I explained why. Then I explained why they are borderline required for most college students.

    I addressed video games, and said they were the most cost efficient method of getting entertainment. $15 a month per person for entertainment? Can’t beat that.
    Your response: “TPC – poor little you. Phhht. Cry me a river. “I deserve my relax time”.

    Out of left field, and arguing some other topic. I think your debate skills are slipping the more you post here. Either that, or you are developing Alzheimer’s.
    “Whining and crying about it is of no help to any of us.”

    Its not an excuse, its an explanation. People often know me for years before actually asking me about my life growing up. So I tell them. Then they don’t believe me. Eventually someone else substantiates it. It was my life, and I won’t apologize for reality. It shaped who I am today, and gave me the tools to move forward in life.
    “Bring it on, but you better bring yourself a change or diapers or two.”

    Go back and look at our 1-2 actual disagreements. Your defense breaks down to the internet equivalent of I CAN’T HEAR YOU BUT I’M RIGHT


    Just because you didn’t change your opinion at the end of a debate, doesn’t make you right or mean that you won.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:35 pm

  58. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    “another guy who had a masters who worked for $10/hr for a year before he found a real job. When your competition is frequently a double dipping retiree with a degree and 20+ years experience… You’re not going to be considered for the job much more frequently, and most likely the $10/hr starting wage is punishment for not having worked an unpaid internship while in college.”


    Work pud job, and pay the bills. Or get unpaid internship, and snag a job 3 years later.

    Unpaid = no bills paid, so its a no-brainer for most of us.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:37 pm

  59. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @LLPOH –

    “One thing for sure, I can piss off the Admin more than anyone else”

    Idk, HZK does a pretty good job some days.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:38 pm

  60. LLPOH says:

    TPC – yes it does. You obviously have no idea as yet about how things are around here. I win when I say I win. And I always fucking win. Too bad for you.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:39 pm

  61. Kill Bill says:

    Who’s going to support Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, entitlements, 54% of the population living off the government, -AWD


    Debts that cant be paid wont.

    Debts that can be printed away will.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:40 pm

  62. Eddie says:



    I didn’t say anything about incest. My kids are adults, and I give them a place to live.That’s all. I have a big house, and there is plenty of room. I enjoy having family. Most people today don’t even know what family really is, imho.

    For those of you jokers who expressed an interest in my daughters…would you like to see my gun collection? It’s extensive, and I’m a good shot.

    In the words of the late Ronald Reagan, ” Make my day.”


    22nd October 2012 at 9:40 pm

  63. LLPOH says:

    Hope does a reasonable job of pissing of the Admin. But it is no contest as for who does it best. Check out some of the old OWS threads for some prime examples. I thought my video screen was going to explode.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:41 pm

  64. AWD says:

    I have daughters. I carry a spare scalpel around, in case I need to perform a field castration.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:43 pm

  65. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @LLPOH “TPC – yes it does. You obviously have no idea as yet about how things are around here. I win when I say I win. And I always fucking win. Too bad for you.”


    “Check out some of the old OWS threads for some prime examples.”

    Hell no, I spend too much time on this website as it is.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:45 pm

  66. Kill Bill says:

    I was born in 1960 and never attended anything like the pictures above.

    I faked my birth certificate so I could get a job at 15.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:45 pm

  67. LLPOH says:

    Eddie – you offering those guns as dowry?


    22nd October 2012 at 9:46 pm

  68. Kill Bill says:

    Meh, the hippies got their signs wrong.

    War makes taxes, its where ours started.

    Make War
    Make Taxes

    If they would have gone with that maybe people would have paid more attention 8=) (Thats a monkey face Stucky)


    22nd October 2012 at 9:49 pm

  69. LLPOH says:

    Admin – I am too young for the sixties. My friends and acquaintances were farm folk and rural sorts for the most part. We did get bussed into the city for high school – we farm boys were picked on for a while, until we kicked shit out of a bunch of the so called toughs, then they left us alone.

    My experience is my experience. I do not hire Ivy Leaguers, nor do college grads tend to come my way (many of them should, but will not). I see what I see. And it is a large enough sample to have made an impression on me.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:51 pm

  70. LLPOH says:

    My elders were from the dustbowl in the 1930’s. THey mised the fun of the 20s I guess. But the 30s (and 40s) made an impression, I kid you not.


    22nd October 2012 at 9:54 pm

  71. Administrator says:

    The scorned and ridiculed youth of the 1920s and 1930s were the ones who stormed the beaches of Normandy. It wasn’t because they wanted to, it was because they had to.

    Today’s youth will be forced to take on a similar task in the next decade.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:02 pm

  72. Kepi says:

    LLOPH, one of the things I’ve noticed about employers is that they want their employees to enjoy working. That’s silly. If I enjoyed it that much, I’d be willing to pay you! That’s not to say I’m work shy, or to say I don’t take a degree of pride in my work. I do, I make it a point to do my job as best I can even when everything around me is totally failing. However, if I’m starting to enjoy being at my job rather than going home to my family, and my video games, and my home improvement projects… I’m looking for a new job because I’ve mastered this and I need to find something that’ll pay more and is more difficult. Work should be a pain in the ass.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:02 pm

  73. LLPOH says:

    Kepi – I am not talking about enjoying working – I am not a big believer in the idea that work should be enjoyed. Work is work and liesure is liesure.

    But the fact is, you are bad-mothing your employers and company. You call them idiots and disparage their decisions. I have no opinion re the truth or otherwise of that. However, that your opinion is so low of them/it is a bad thing, and will 1) hurt you personally and 2) inevitably be discovered by your employers. A more positive attitude toward the situation will do you good.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:07 pm

  74. Administrator says:

    LLPOH after Admin smacks him around, makes a comment about IQ, and accuses him of being a capitalist pig who doesn’t pay enough taxes.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:08 pm

  75. AWD says:

    This post makes it official

    The American dream is over.

    Unless we change the American dream to being dependent on the government or mom and dad’s basement.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:08 pm

  76. LLPOH says:

    Admin – I hpe they are not subjected to war. I think they will be subjected to horrible economic tribulation, and I think they need to prepare themselves for such, and need to abandon any ideas of entitlement, as it will hurt them in their preparation for what is coming. And something bad this way comes. The prepared will thrive, and those not, not.

    By the way, most youths of the 20s and 30s would certainly be farm folk, and not the high-living young we see in the movies. They would have been hardened by physical labor.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:11 pm

  77. AWD says:

    One year’s welfare spending would pay off all student loans. Give the FSA a year to fend for themselves. Give the kids a chance in life.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:13 pm

  78. LLPOH says:

    Admin – that is not me! My head would be exploding if you mentioned I do not pay sufficient tax.

    Don’t make me start talking about thumb rings – you know you need to watch your blood pressure.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:13 pm

  79. Stucky says:

    Kepi — you’re lenght response to me was elegant and appreciated. BTW, what’s a “Kepi”?

    Kepi and llpoh

    I have no idea what the hell you are talking about not enjoying work. I loved my job at HP, every single aspect of it. Meeting so many people from the floor to the office, learning and becoming involved in so many different types of businesses, the tremendous amount of money they spent on training me, and on and on. I loved it all. Does that mean I didn’t love coming home to the kids? Of course not. I have a big heart, and I can love many. lol


    22nd October 2012 at 10:14 pm

  80. Administrator says:


    The migration to cities from the farms had mostly taken place. Only 30% of the population lived on farms in the 1930s.

    There has not been a Fourth Turning without an all-out war. I doubt the youth of today will be able to sidestep an armed conflict.

    I know my kids are under no impression that they will get any entitlements. Their old man has informed them that my generation and previous generations have screwed them and given them a bill for $100 trillion.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:19 pm

  81. LLPOH says:

    I thought it was around 40 odd percent but you are probably right. it was 40% in 1900.

    As ever, Admin, we are not too far apart in what we think may happen. Those minor differences sure make for some whoper fights. I truly hope the war stuff is wrong.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:26 pm

  82. LLPOH says:

    Stuck – I just think it is not a realistic expectation that work will be loved. Work is work. And a lot of it isn’t nice. Such is life.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:28 pm

  83. Kill Bill says:

    Sometimes you have to do work you dont enjoy.

    It does make it easier when you do work that you enjoy doing.

    I would jump off a bridge doing what admin does. And he would probably throw himself in the intake of a jet engine if he did what I liked.

    IMO, pick your career not based on expected income but because of what you like to do. The world has enough grumps.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:53 pm

  84. Stucky says:


    I guess I was just lucky.

    (But not in every job.)


    22nd October 2012 at 10:58 pm

  85. Kepi says:

    I bad mouth my employers because they do things that frequently get in the way of productivity and safety, and if it weren’t for our lower management having our backs, we’d be in a lot of trouble. I’m not the sort who thinks all boomers are making bad decisions, but the majority I’ve seen are. When I started this job, our upper management was on point, and ensured that we were freed up to do our jobs. Now, they want us to dump a ton of time reading emails and doing unnecessary paper work.

    I wouldn’t have a huge problem with this except we can’t access the internet on our consoles, so we have to get up and go and read these e-mails when we should be working. I work in a teamwork position, one person gets up, it puts extra workload on all of us until they get back. Sometimes you’ll get an excess of 50 things to read and only a maximum of 5 will be related directly to your job. We’re doing pointless paperwork in between doing actual work related to the product, and it’s a safety issue because it’s a distraction.

    Still on safety, they’ve repeatedly changed equipment and layout which makes things more noisy and therefore more distracting and more dangerous. They buy these materials and make these changes without ever consulting anyone who actually works the job, and then when you tell them it isn’t conducive to the job and it’s hindering the work, they bitch and moan about how ungreatful you are. I’m not saying I expect my employer to be perfect, but I do expect them to be able to take constructive criticism, acknowledge problems, and fix them in a timely manner. They don’t.

    And despite the fact that I’ve told them all this before I’m still working here mainly because I’m pretty much amazing at what I do, yet unfortunately I haven’t been offered a job that will match my salary with benefits. I get work isn’t supposed to be perfect, but our jobs are hard enough without our own guys getting in our way and then acting pigheaded about it.


    22nd October 2012 at 10:59 pm

  86. Kill Bill says:

    LoL, Kepi, there is not a single company I have worked at that wasnt alot like Dilbert. Boomers or not.

    Its what upper management does.

    We had a saying “Those that can do, those that cant, manage”


    22nd October 2012 at 11:08 pm

  87. Ron says:

    If your a good employer word gets around and people show up asking for a job.
    Human nature is to do as little work as possible for as much as possible.
    I almost worked myself to death and its mostly for paying basic bills.I did manage to get ahead some.You have to decide for yourself what you want to do.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:17 pm

  88. Kepi says:

    The difference is the reasoning. I don’t expect someone not to make mistakes, but I do expect to be able to remedy problems created when they arise. Because it’s idealistic boomers doing the reasoning, their sacred cow issue is far more important to them than things like your coworkers hearing eachother when they need to.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:25 pm

  89. Kepi says:

    Oh, and a Kepi is a hat that was worn during the civil war by the rank and file.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:27 pm

  90. Kill Bill says:

    Because it’s idealistic boomers doing the reasoning, -Kepi

    Its not boomers doing the reasoning, its humans doing the reasoning. =)


    22nd October 2012 at 11:40 pm

  91. DaveL says:

    I thought about moving in with my parents, but decided when the time comes, to get cremated rather than buried.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:51 pm

  92. Llpoh says:

    Kepi – I expect my employees not to make mistakes. Mistakes do happen, but they are avoidable. Accidents tend to be unavoidable. I do not believe in mistakes. Every mistake made is handled in some way, and the way is never “do not worry about it, everyone makes mistakes”. Fuck that. People do not get fired for mistakes, but they sure as hell get told they made one, why they made it is determined, and corrective action is implemented. They do not get fired unless making mistakes is ahabit. I do not positively reinforce the making of mistakes, that is for sure.

    Set high standards, and require they be met.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:55 pm

  93. Kill Bill says:

    No, dont approach the problem because its hard for me to hear and unsafe (which it may be). Approach it from a managerial standpoint.

    I think that if we do this (move equipment) that it will increase productivity and save future safety costs.

    Managers are mostly suck ups, if you give them an idea that increases their suck up power they will work harder to implement their (your) idea.

    This does not apply to such employers as llpoh, however, he has been where you are. These tactics dont work.

    So compliment them on their smarts. =)

    Im joking in the line above. That wont work either.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:59 pm

  94. Kepi says:

    Humans maybe dumb, but the reasoning always being made in favor of meeting certain ideals? That’s where I’m pointing out the boomers. Sure, every generation has it’s terrible terrible blind spots. That’s part of why the world turns. However, there’s supposed to be a social dialog that happens that restrains power from finding itself soley in the hands of one generation. Unfortunately this has been the unintended result of birthcontrol and abortion (and not that I’m opposed to either, we as a society have gone quite a bit overboard with it, though), which has left our social structure without the numbers to effectively prevent a consolidation of power.


    22nd October 2012 at 11:59 pm

  95. Kill Bill says:

    However, there’s supposed to be a social dialog that happens that restrains power from finding itself soley in the hands of one generation. -Kepi

    Where would I find the information to back this claim?


    23rd October 2012 at 12:07 am

  96. ThePessimisticChemist says:


    Right here



    23rd October 2012 at 12:13 am

  97. Kepi says:

    Llpoh, at my job, you don’t have time to make that distinction. If there’s a mistake or an accident or however you want to phrase it, and it doesn’t get corrected almost immediately by you or the person who catches it everyone will catch hell for it.

    There’s a grace period of a few seconds, but if you didn’t do it right the first time, you don’t have time to correct it.


    23rd October 2012 at 12:18 am

  98. Kill Bill says:

    Power has always concentrated in fewer and fewer hands because money concentrates in fewer and fewer hands.

    That hasnt changed over thousands of years and Im not saying I agree with that.


    Thats funny TPC.

    Ought to give that person a plexautomy.


    23rd October 2012 at 12:20 am

  99. Kepi says:

    KB, it’s in The Fourth Turning, I don’t have my copy of it right in front of me, but specifically it’s in the part where they’re talking about preparing for the crisis, and their notes to the boomers.


    23rd October 2012 at 12:21 am

  100. Kill Bill says:

    What is it that your company produces Kepi?

    I dont need know the state or name of the company.


    23rd October 2012 at 12:24 am

  101. Kill Bill says:

    KB, it’s in The Fourth Turning, I don’t have my copy of it right in front of me, but specifically it’s in the part where they’re talking about preparing for the crisis, and their notes to the boomers. -Kepi

    You do realize that Strauss and Howe, due to their birthdates are ‘boomers’?


    23rd October 2012 at 12:25 am

  102. Kill Bill says:

    It is like I am having a conversation with SAH


    23rd October 2012 at 12:28 am

  103. Kill Bill says:

    How many times have humans, thru history, been told this would happen at X time and X date only to see their prophecy, built by theory, go unfulfilled?

    Strauss is as full of shit as a double assed christmas turkey.


    23rd October 2012 at 12:32 am

  104. Colma Rising says:

    Not living with multiple generations under one roof is an unnatural deviation from the norm of human existence.

    It will return to the mean, and pretending that someone who lives with their folks is abnormal is silly.

    I’ll probably have one of or both of my parents knocking on MY door for a place in the next decade. Not kidding.


    I wish I could jump online for these threads during the week more.



    23rd October 2012 at 12:40 am

  105. Colma Rising says:

    Bill: Stick to subjects you know about.

    Strauss and Howe nailed some cycles down and did so quite accurately.

    Again, as I warned you many times before, you look like a fool commenting on books you haven’t read.



    23rd October 2012 at 1:00 am

  106. Kepi says:

    It’s the Police and Fire Depatment, I’m in dispatch.

    And yes, I realize they’re boomers. Just because you’ve got some boomers who’ve produced something good or right doesn’t mean they’re always right. It means they produced a work that was good, awesome. Doesn’t mean that boomers have met the standards necessary to do the job for their archetype.


    23rd October 2012 at 1:16 am

  107. Kepi says:

    Oh, trust me, I agree that we’re going back to multifamily living, and that’s the natural order and the right order for people… It’s the terms and conditions that it happens under that I care about Colma.

    I moved out and I purchased property because if we’re gonna be living together again, I want them to fully understand that they’re entering my house, not vice versa.


    23rd October 2012 at 1:29 am

  108. Bruce says:

    I haven’t been an employee since a few years out of high school and damn glad I did not waste my life in the service of some damn employer.

    I’ve had a good life because others worked damn hard for me to have it. All I had to do was reward them with a modest pay check, some benefits, occasional recognition bullshit like trophies and an extra bone here and there. Surprisingly that was enough for most and some were even ticked pink to have such a good job.

    Sure there was some stress but not the stress of struggling and straining to keep a roof over your head, food on the table, the lights on and making payments on a crap mobile month in and month out year after year like my mom did. And then back to work so you can struggle your ass off some more. That’s real stress, that’s the lives of chronic desperation vast numbers deal with.

    I believe in honorable, noble hard work, dedication and dependability…………. of people who work for me.

    Maybe the Ojaculatetor was right. “You didn’t build that”. Maybe they built it, but I owned it so fuck em and feed em fish heads.


    23rd October 2012 at 6:27 am

  109. Goldorack says:

    Llpoh: ” I was working 110+ hours a week”

    Llpoh, did you ever check your children’s DNA?

    Note that you could have sold a kidney and invest the resulting benefit in your production unit. Chinese would do so. see? you’re a pussy.


    23rd October 2012 at 8:52 am

  110. Pirate Jo says:

    I went through the same thing Kepi did. Back in 92/93 the wage was $7.00 an hour and not $10.00, but it was the same type of situation. I got my degree in accounting – a hard, boring subject – because I thought that would get me a better job. But I ended up surrounded by a whole bunch of other 22-year-olds with accounting degrees, all of us making $7.00 an hour in jobs that didn’t really require a college degree. (Although once the job market was flooded with college graduates like us who would take anything, those jobs DID require a college degree.) Anyway, that wasn’t enough money to scrape by on, after paying for rent, food, and utilities and putting gas in my car.

    My solution was to get a second job rather than live with my parents. So I worked 40 hours a week at my $7.00 job and another 20-30 hours a week at my part-time retail job which paid $5.15 an hour, minimum wage at the time. It took everything I made between those two jobs to get by. It took me an entire year to pay off the $1,000 I had on my credit card – only to have to borrow another $1,000 when the engine in my piece of crap car blew a head gasket.

    As the years went by, I got better full-time jobs and better part-time jobs until when I was 28 or 29 I was finally able to quit my second job and live off one job. I sympathize with the situation the Millennials face, but I have to question whether this is anything new. This was going on 20 years ago, and with the exception of a tiny handful of years in the early 2000’s, hasn’t the job market always sucked? Especially for recent college grads?


    23rd October 2012 at 1:13 pm

  111. llpoh says:

    Goldorack is still a moron.

    Kepi – working for the government is not real work. So sorry. But it explains your idiot bosses.

    PJ did it the right way. She doesn’t mention blowing money on Starbucks and video games and DVDs. Self-restraint is also a human nature – just one that fewer have. Studies show around 1 in 3 have it. The other 2 of 3 blow what they get immediately.


    23rd October 2012 at 6:45 pm

  112. Kepi says:

    I disagree when you’re talking about government agencies that actually provide services to and are accessed by the general public (government run utilities, police, fire, etc.). The paper pusher jobs? Sure, most of the time that’s not work, but police and fire services are pretty much the same service provision formula as private industry.


    23rd October 2012 at 7:42 pm

  113. llpoh says:

    Of course you do. All government workers think they are hard working, underpaid, underappreciated. All teachers think that. All police and firemen think that. All government servants think that. All road workers on the government payroll, all meter readers, all sanitation workers, all licensing workers, etc etc etc. think that.

    So sorry – they are all wrong, at least collectively they are wrong.

    Tell me – how many folks have you seen fired from your government job? Not laid off, but actually fired for non-performance or poor performance? It just never fucking happens. And that tells you all you need to know – sub-standard performance is allowed, and as it is allowed it becomes the norm.

    Firing a government worker is so rare as to be essentially non-existent. Governments should be firing 5 to 10% of their workforce EVERY year for poor performance. No kidding – there must be a penalty for poor performance. But not for government workers. The bottom layer should be forced out continuously – but it does not happen. You are more likely to die than be fired if you work for a government.

    The federal government fires 0.55% of its employees each year for poor performance – 12,000 per year out of 2+ million employees. The state department fired 6 out of 28,000. Unbelievable.



    23rd October 2012 at 8:01 pm

  114. John A says:

    I have found great appreciation in the comments posted above from everyone, young and old. Some universal truths from my own experience for what it’s worth:

    (1) Life is sometimes harsh and unforgiving. Depend on no one but yourself.

    (2) Nobody owes you anything in life. Period.

    (3) Never underestimate the ability of people to disappoint you.

    (4) Make your mistakes in life. Then, forgive yourself and move on.

    (5) Be loyal to your employer even if he has none for you.

    (6) Think before you speak. Watch your mouth.

    (7) Outside of family and a few friends, nobody really gives a damn about you.

    (8) Integrity and character make you who you are. Keep them close at all times.

    (9) Be noble and rise above the pettiness of others.

    (10) Gossip is usually the activity of selfish and inferior people.

    (11) Knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing.

    (12) Mind your own business at every opportunity.


    23rd October 2012 at 9:09 pm

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