WILL A PROPHET ASSUME COMMAND?

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Posted on 4th November 2012 by Administrator in Economy |Politics |Social Issues

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“The next Fourth Turning is due to begin shortly after the new millennium, midway through the Oh-Oh decade. Around the year 2005, a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. Remnants of the old social order will disintegrate. Political and economic trust will implode. Real hardship will beset the land, with severe distress that could involve questions of class, race, nation and empire. The very survival of the nation will feel at stake. Sometime before the year 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history, commensurate with the American Revolution, Civil War, and twin emergencies of the Great Depression and World War II.” – Strauss & Howe The Fourth Turning

Strauss & Howe wrote these words in 1997. They had predicted the arrival of another Crisis in this time frame in their previous book Generations, written in 1990. This wasn’t guesswork on their part. They understood the dynamics of how generations interact and how the mood of the country shifts every twenty or so years based upon the generational alignment that occurs as predictably as the turning of the seasons. The last generation that lived through the entire previous Crisis from 1929 through 1946 has virtually died off. This always signals the onset of the next Fourth Turning. The housing bubble and its ultimate implosion created the spark for the current Crisis that began in September 2008, with the near meltdown of the worldwide financial system. Just as the stock market crash of 1929, the election of Lincoln in 1860, and the Boston Tea Party in 1773 catalyzed a dramatic mood change in the country, the Wall Street created financial collapse in 2008 has ushered in a twenty year period of agony, suffering, war and ultimately the annihilation of the existing social order.

We have experienced the American High (Spring) from 1946 until 1964, witnessing America’s ascendancy as a global superpower. We survived the turbulent Consciousness Revolution Awakening (Summer) from 1964 until 1984, as Vietnam era protests morphed into yuppie era greed. The Long Boom/Culture Wars Unraveling (Fall) lasted from Reagan’s Morning in America in 1984 until the 2008 Wall Street/Federal Reserve spawned crash. The pessimism built to a crescendo as worry about rising violence and incivility, widening wealth inequality, and the splitting of the national consensus into extremes on the left and right, led the country into a winter of discontent. The Global Financial Crisis (Winter) has arrived in full fury and is likely to last until the late 2020’s. It will be an era of upheaval, financial turbulence, economic collapse, war, and the complete redefinition of society, as the existing corrupt status quo is swept away in the fury of powerful hurricane winds of change. History is cyclical and we’ve entered the most dangerous season, when the choices we make as a nation will have profound long lasting implications to the lives of future unborn generations.

The linear thinkers and so called progressives who believe that history charges relentlessly forward and human ingenuity overcomes all obstacles as the world becomes progressively richer, advanced, and humane ignore the lessons of history that have been re-written every 80 to 100 years for centuries. Generational theory is so simple that even an Ivy League intellectual economist, corrupt congressman, or CNBC anchor bimbo could grasp the basic concept. The four turnings in the ongoing cycle of history match a long human life. There is a reason we forget the lessons of the past. Those who remember the lessons die off after 80 years. The linear thinking status quo keep predicting an improving economy based upon their beliefs that the next fifteen years will proceed in a similar fashion to the last fifteen years. They refuse to acknowledge we’ve entered a new era that cannot be reversed to a previous point in time. Once you’ve experienced the harsh bitter winds of the Winter, you have to deal with months of depressing darkness, harsh conditions, and stormy weather before experiencing the return of the warm breezes of Spring. The tranquil days of autumn are long gone. This dynamic can be clearly visualized by comparing our economic situation in 2007, prior to entering this Fourth Turning, to our economic situation today:

End of Unraveling in 2007 versus fourth year of Crisis in 2012

  • In 2007, the unemployment rate was 4.6%; 146 million people, or 63% of the working age population, were employed; and 78 million Americans were not in the labor force. Today, after three years of “recovery”, the unemployment rate is 7.9%; 143 million people, or 58.8% of the working age population are employed; and 88 million Americans are not in the labor force.
  • Real median household income was $55,039 in 2007. It has fallen by 8.2% to $50,502 today.
  • BLS reported inflation has risen by 12% since 2007. True inflation has risen at twice that rate.
  • Median net worth in 2007 was $126,400. By 2010 it had fallen to $77,300, a 39% drop in three years. As of today, it may be a few thousand dollars higher as stock prices have risen and home prices have stopped falling.
  • In 2007 there were 5.7 million existing homes sold at a median price of $218,900. Today there are 4.3 million existing homes being sold at a median price of $183,900. Over 1 million of these home sales are foreclosures or short sales, as 30% of all the homes with a mortgage in the country owe more than their house is worth.
  • Federal government spending in 2007 was $2.73 trillion. Federal government spending today is $3.8 trillion, a 39% increase in five years. GDP in 2007 was $14.2 trillion. Today GDP is $15.8 trillion, an 11% increase in five years. Approximately 25% of the GDP increase is due to increased government spending.
  • Government entitlement transfers totaled $1.7 trillion in 2007. Today they total $2.4 trillion, a 41% increase in five years. Interest income paid to senior citizens and savers totaled $1.25 trillion in 2007. Today interest income totals $985 billion, a 21% decrease in five years. Wall Street bankers needed the money to pay themselves bonuses, so Ben Bernanke obliged.
  • The annual deficit in 2007 totaled $161 billion. Today, the annual deficit is $1.1 trillion. We add $3 billion per day to the national debt as a gift to unborn generations.
  • The national debt in 2007 was $9 trillion. Today the national debt is $16.3 trillion, an 81% increase in five years. The national debt will reach $20 trillion during the next presidential term. Normalization of interest rates to 2007 levels would result in annual interest expense of $1 trillion, or 40% of current government revenues.

There is nothing normal about our current economic situation. The unfunded liabilities at the Federal, State and local levels of government accumulate to over $200 trillion. Do the facts detailed above lead you to believe we can return to pre-2007 normal in the near future, or ever? Not only has the economic situation of the country deteriorated enormously, the very culprits who created the disaster are more powerful than they were before the global catastrophe caused by their criminal risk taking. The largest Wall Street banks control 74% of all the deposits in the country, up from 66% in 2007, and double the levels from the mid-1990’s. These bastions of capitalism wield all of the power in this country, dictating who wins elections, who writes the laws, and who benefits from the distribution of wealth. Only in a corrupt, crony-capitalist, citadel of kleptocracy could the perpetrators of the greatest theft of national wealth in the history of mankind be rewarded with taxpayer financed bailouts, the ability to borrow an unlimited amount of fiat currency at 0% from a Central Bank they control, write the new banking regulations and be applauded by their corporate mainstream media for becoming even Too Bigger to Fail. This Fourth Turning will ultimately come down to a clash between the people and the Wall Street filth.

 

Those in power today are using their ample wealth and control over the legal, economic and political systems to pretend that an epic crisis does not beckon at our doorstep. Propaganda and media spin cannot avert the brutally hard choices that must be made over the next fifteen years. The existing system is unsustainable. It can either be changed by choice or after a complete collapse. We haven’t reached the point of regeneracy yet when civic purpose begins to strengthen. The outcome of this presidential election will determine the next phase of this Crisis. Strauss & Howe described the normal course of a crisis in 1997:

“A CRISIS arises in response to sudden threats that previously would have been ignored or deferred, but which are now perceived as dire. Great worldly perils boil off the clutter and complexity of life, leaving behind one simple imperative: The society must prevail. This requires a solid public consensus, aggressive institutions, and personal sacrifice. People support new efforts to wield public authority, whose perceived successes soon justify more of the same. Government governs, community obstacles are removed, and laws and customs that resisted change for decades are swiftly shunted aside. A grim preoccupation with civic peril causes spiritual curiosity to decline. Public order tightens, private risk-taking abates, and crime and substance abuse decline. Families strengthen, gender distinctions widen, and child-rearing reaches a smothering degree of protection and structure. The young focus their energy on worldly achievements, leaving values in the hands of the old. Wars are fought with fury and for maximum result.” - The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

Clearly this country has not reached a common consensus and is split 50%/50% on most important issues. Debates about the role of government are waged with vitriolic passion, but the reality is that, as in past Fourth Turnings, the government has already assumed a greater level of power and control over our lives. The majority believe that government can protect them, provide for them, and pay their way. This is a delusion which will be revealed as fraudulent and mathematically impossible. The incompetent government preparation prior to Superstorm Sandy and the dysfunctional, bureaucratic and painfully slow response afterward are opening the eyes of many people. The decisions which are yet to be made are what kind of society shall we be and who will be required to sacrifice to achieve a positive outcome at the end of this Crisis. Turnings are driven by a mood change in the country and the constellation of generations at that point in time. The generations are now aligned as they always are during a Crisis:

  • Boomers entering elderhood
  • Gen-Xers entering midlife
  • Millennials entering young adulthood
  • Homelanders entering childhood

History does not repeat but it does rhyme, because of the cyclical nature of human experience. The specific events that drive this Crisis are unknowable, but the generational response to these events can be predicted with uncanny accuracy. Each generation will play its assigned role during this Crisis. The current generational configuration will propel events and create a feedback loop that will change the course of human history on a scale consistent with the Depression/World War II, the Civil War and the American Revolution.

“What will propel these events? As the saeculum turns, each of today’s generations will enter a new phase of life, producing a Crisis constellation of Boomer elders, midlife 13ers, young adult Millennials, and children from the new Silent Generation. As each archetype asserts its new social role, American society will reach its peak of potency. The natural order givers will be elder Prophets, the natural order takers young Heroes. The no-nonsense bosses will be midlife Nomads, the sensitive souls the child Artists. No archetypal constellation can match the gravitational of this one – nor its power to congeal the natural dynamic of human history into new civic purposes. And none can match its potential power to condense countless arguments, anxieties, cynicisms, and pessimisms into one apocalyptic storm.” - The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

The mood of the country continues to blacken. A simmering anger boils beneath the surface of an everyday façade of normalcy. The middle class majority is being squeezed in a vice, with the rich powerful plutocrats on Wall Street and in Washington DC stealing their hard earned net worth through financial scams, the gutting of our industrial base and a tax system designed to benefit those who write the laws on one side and the parasitic willfully ignorant underclass that is sustained only through the extraction of taxes from the working middle class on the other side. Our society has become a hunger games tournament, with the few benefitting while the many scramble to survive. The stench of class warfare is in the air. The generational resentment and rage is palatable as the Millenial generation has taken on a trillion dollars of student loan debt at the behest of the Federal government, Wall Street and older generations, only to graduate into a jobless economy. The generational contract has been broken, as the older generations will not or cannot leave the workforce due to their own financial missteps. Younger generations are being denied entry level positions, even as the older generations expect them to fund their retirements and healthcare. This presidential election will only exacerbate the anger, disappointment, bitterness and fury among the populace, no matter who wins.

Prophets & Nomads

Can generational theory predict who will win the presidential election? Probably not, but based upon historical precedent, during times of Crisis the country usually turns to a Prophet generation leader who provides a new vision and summons the moral authority to lead. This leader may not have the right vision or have the backing of the entire population, but he is not afraid to take bold action. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was despised by many, but he boldly led the country during the last Crisis. Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 election with only 39.8% of the popular vote, but he unflinchingly did whatever he thought was necessary to achieve victory and preserve the union. Prophet leaders like Samuel Adams and Benjamin Franklin offered the sense of moral urgency required to sustain the American Revolution. Strauss & Howe give a historical perspective on Prophet generations.

“Prophet generations are born after a great war or other crisis, during a time of rejuvenated community life and consensus around a new societal order. Prophets grow up as the increasingly indulged children of this post-crisis era, come of age as narcissistic young crusaders of a spiritual awakening, cultivate principle as moralistic mid-lifers, and emerge as wise elders guiding another historical crisis. By virtue of this location in history, such generations tend to be remembered for their coming-of-age passion and their principled elder stewardship. Their principle endowments are often in the domain of vision, values, and religion. Their best-known historical leaders include John Winthrop, William Berkeley, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, James Polk, Abraham Lincoln, Herbert Hoover, and Franklin Roosevelt. These were principled moralists, summoners of human sacrifice, and wagers of righteous wars. Early in life, few saw combat in uniform; later in life, most came to be revered more for their inspiring words than for their grand deeds.” - The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

 

 

Barack Obama was born in 1961. According to the Strauss & Howe generational distinctions, this makes him an early Gen-Xer. His life story matches that of the Nomad archetype. His chaotic early life, confused upbringing by an array of elders, frenetic alienated early adulthood as a community organizer, and his rise to power through his public speaking talent and pragmatic ability to achieve his agenda is a blueprint for a Nomad. Mitt Romney was born in 1947 and grew up during the American High. His childhood was idyllic and privileged. His moral Mormon youth as a missionary eventually devolved into his yuppie “greed is good” career at Bain Capital acquiring companies, making them more efficient (firing Americans & hiring Asians), and spinning them off, while siphoning millions in fees. He has tried to convince Americans to vote for him, based upon his business acumen and moral lifestyle, as the cure for what ails America. With the continued downward spiral of societal mood, record low trust in Congress and 60% of Americans thinking the country is on the wrong track, the odds should favor the Prophet candidate. The 40% of Americans who think the country is on the right track are a tribute to our awful government run public education system or are smoking crack.

The Barack Obama presidency has many similarities to the one-term presidencies of Herbert Hoover and James Buchanan. Both men were overwhelmed by rapidly deteriorating events, an inability to understand the true nature of the Crisis, and failure to inspire the American people to rally behind a common cause. Both men drifted off into obscurity and are overwhelmingly acknowledged as two of the least successful presidents. The men who succeeded them are ranked by historians at the top of the list, even though they are both despised by more libertarian minded citizens as proponents of big government solutions and control. Libertarians will not be happy with developments over the next fifteen years. This Crisis is an era in which America’s corrupt social order will be torn down and reconstructed from the ground as a reaction to the unsustainable financial pyramid scheme which is an existential threat to the nation’s very survival. Civic authority will revive, cultural manifestation will find a community resolution, and citizens will begin to associate themselves as adherents of a larger cluster.   

Barack Obama has fallen short as a Crisis leader, just as Buchanan and Hoover fell short. Buchanan also tried to maintain the status quo and not address the key issues of the day – secession and slavery. His handling of the financial Panic of 1857 led to annual deficits that exceeded 13% of GDP during his entire presidency. His legacy is one of failure and hesitation. Hoover was a technocrat with an engineering background who failed to recognize the extent of the suffering by the American people during the early stages of the Great Depression. It is a false storyline that he did not attempt to use the power of the Federal government to address the economic crisis. Federal spending increased by over 20% during his term and he was running a deficit when Roosevelt assumed power. Hoover was an activist president who began the public works programs that FDR expanded and dramatically increased taxes on the rich and corporations in 1932.

Obama inherited a plunging economic situation and proceeded to make choices that will make this Crisis far worse than it needed to be. He has failed miserably in addressing the core elements of this Crisis that were foreseen by Strauss and Howe over a decade before the initial spark in 2008. Debt, civic decay, rising wealth inequality due to the rise of our plutocracy, and global disorder are the underlying basis for this Crisis. Obama’s response was to run record deficits driving the national debt skyward, failing to address the unfunded entitlement liabilities that loom on the horizon, bowing down before the Wall Street mobsters and paying their ransom demands, layering on more complexity and unfunded healthcare liabilities to an already teetering government system, and extending our policing the world foreign policy at a cost of $1 trillion per year. A Crisis requires a bold leader who makes tough choices and leads. Obama has proven to not be that leader. Based on historical precedent and the rapidly deteriorating mood of the country, it would be logical for the country to select Romney, a Prophet generation leader.

No Escape   

“Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning the way you might today distance yourself from news, national politics, or even taxes you don’t feel like paying. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted. The Fourth Turning necessitates the death and rebirth of the social order. It is the ultimate rite of passage for an entire people, requiring a luminal state of sheer chaos whose nature and duration no one can predict in advance.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

No matter who wins the election, there will be no turning back. It isn’t Morning in America anymore. It is more like Midnight in America on a bitterly cold dark February night as the gale force winds begin to gust, foretelling the approach of an epic winter blizzard. There are no easy solutions. The opportunity to alleviate the impact of this Crisis was during the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, and we made all the wrong choices. Now we will pay the price. An era of depression and violence will be ushered in by an economic calamity that will make 2008 look like a minor blip. The next president will still be presiding over a country divided 50%/50%, with little or no common ground on most of the key issues that must be confronted. But, as we’ve seen in previous Crisis periods, bold leadership and history making decisions did not require consensus or even majority support. Only 10% of the colonial population drove the American Revolution. Lincoln was despised by half the country and not exactly loved by everyone in the North. FDR’s popular support progressively declined during his four terms in office. It is the Fourth Turning events, not the nation, which elevates the person to the apex of power. The regeneracy of the nation will occur during the next presidential term.

“Soon after the catalyst, a national election will produce a sweeping political realignment, as one faction or coalition capitalizes on a new public demand for decisive action. Republicans, Democrats, or perhaps a new party will decisively win the long partisan tug of war. This new regime will enthrone itself for the duration of the Crisis. Regardless of its ideology, that new leadership will assert public authority and demand private sacrifice. Regardless of its ideology, that new leadership will assert public authority and demand private sacrifice. Where leaders had once been inclined to alleviate societal pressures, they will now aggravate them to command the nation’s attention. The regeneracy will be solidly under way.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

The Millenial generation is coming of age faced with the burdens of $1 trillion of student loan debt, a stagnant job market clogged by the Boomer generation that can’t afford to retire because they never got around to saving, ever increasing taxes to fund the promises made to their elders by politicians, and an unfunded entitlement liability of $100 trillion for healthcare and pension benefits they will never see. The mathematical impossibility of sustaining our economic system is absolute. It will require courage, sacrifice, fortitude and a dramatic shift of our egocentric selfish culture to a culture of sustainability and caring about future generations. We’ve made many bad choices over the last few decades. Choices matter. These are the times that will try men’s souls. The choices we make as a nation over the next few years will determine whether this Fourth Turning ends in a renewal of our founding principles or tragedy. Glory or ruin – the choice is ours.

“Thus might the next Fourth Turning end in apocalypse – or glory. The nation could be ruined, its democracy destroyed, and millions of people scattered or killed. Or America could enter a new golden age, triumphantly applying shared values to improve the human condition. The rhythms of history do not reveal the outcome of the coming Crisis; all they suggest is the timing and dimension.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

The next stage of this Crisis is likely to be ignited by a downward spiral of societal trust caused by the next financial implosion, which is certain to occur. A world built upon debt, false promises, interconnected webs of deceitful derivatives, fiat currency backed only by the promises of lying politicians and captured central bankers, and a diminishing supply of easy to access natural resources, is hopelessly dependent upon the willful ignorance of the masses. As long as people want to be lied to rather than facing the truth, those in power can maintain the status quo. Once the jarring realization of reality overwhelms the propaganda and lies of the oligarchs, the battle for middle earth will begin. What will trigger the next phase of this Crisis? No one knows for sure, but based on the fault lines already evident, these are a possibility:

  • The inevitable breakup of the European Union with the consequences of massive bank defaults in Europe triggering worldwide bank defaults as the interconnected trillions of derivatives are lit like a string of firecrackers.
  • A sudden Greece like surge in interest rates on Japanese bonds results in a collapse of their debt ridden economic system, with reverberations throughout the world.
  • The Middle East tinderbox explodes as Israel attacks Iran and the law of unintended consequences takes hold. Alliances and treaties would draw Turkey into war with Syria and Iran. Russia and China could side against the U.S. Iran and their vassals would unleash terrorist attacks and disruption of Middle Eastern oil would drive prices over $200 per barrel, crushing the American economy.
  • A showdown on the debt ceiling and/or fiscal cliff results in a stock market crash, derailing the pitiful fledgling recovery created by Ben Bernanke’s QE to infinity measures.
  • A tipping point is reached with regards to the amount of debt that can be accumulated by our Federal, State and Local governments. A cascade of defaults could lead to a loss of faith in the U.S. dollar and a surge in interest rates. The defaults and increased interest on the national debt could lead to mass depression or in a worst case scenario – hyperinflation.
  • A large terrorist attack in one or more American cities would cause chaos, panic and fear, leading to more government control over our daily lives. This could trigger a counter response by those fed up with an overbearing government presence.
  • A catastrophic natural disaster or series of natural disasters would reveal the fragile nature of our just in time economic system. A breakdown of our logistical and infrastructure systems would lead to chaos and mass hysteria as the citizens who believed their government leaders would keep them safe, secure, warm, and fed realized it was all a sham. Their leaders were in it for the power and riches, not looking out for the best interests of the common folk.

No one knows for sure what will trigger the next leg down during this Crisis, but I can guarantee you that things will not be getting better in the near future. Don’t believe the mainstream media or politicians who tell us life in the good old U.S. of A will be back to normal in the near future. And those who predict a long slow gentle decline of the American Empire that can be managed by the oligarchs are badly mistaken. That is not how things roll in a Fourth Turning. Transformative change, chaos, desperate measures, and total war will propel our nation through this cataclysmic saeculum and a positive outcome is not assured. An armed conflict – class war, sectional war, religious war, or war for oil – will be waged at some point and fought to the finish. Fourth Turning wars do not end inconclusively. Each Fourth Turning war has resulted in greater destruction and more horrendous numbers of human casualties. The trials and tribulations that await this nation over the next fifteen years will challenge every living generation to play their roles and bravely confront the tasks needed to reach a new High, just as their ancestors did.

“History offers no guarantees. Obviously, things could go horribly wrong – the possibilities ranging from a nuclear exchange to incurable plagues, from terrorist anarchy to high-tech dictatorship. We should not assume that Providence will always exempt our nation from the irreversible tragedies that have overtaken so many others: not just temporary hardship, but debasement and total ruin. Losing in the next Fourth Turning could mean something incomparably worse. It could mean a lasting defeat from which our national innocence – perhaps even our nation – might never recover.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

For those who doubt generational theory and believe history is a linear path of human progress, I would point to the last week of chaos, disarray, government dysfunction, and misery of those who didn’t prepare for Superstorm Sandy, as a prelude to the worst of this Crisis. The lack of preparation by government officials and citizens, death, destruction, panic, anger, helplessness and realization of how fragile our system has become is a perfect analogy to our preparation for this Fourth Turning. The brittleness of our infrastructure and lack of redundancy in our systems has left us vulnerable to any large storm. Building mansions yards from a dangerous unpredictable sea is akin to allowing Wall Street bankers to create interconnected financial derivatives which will ultimately result in a great worldwide flood that will obliterate billions of wealth. Going decades without upgrading our power grid, transportation systems, or storm protection is akin to allowing our unfunded entitlement liabilities to accumulate to such an extreme level that it will be impossible to honor and the coming storm will swamp those depending on those promises. The lack of foresight by citizens in having food, water, and backup sources of power and heat in case of an emergency is akin to the millions of people that have lived the good life in debt up to their eyeballs while never saving for a rainy day or their retirement. When the rainy day arrives they panic and demand to be saved by an inept bureaucratic government.

Winter has arrived. The gathering storm is about to strike. Are you prepared?

“Reflect on what happens when a terrible winter blizzard strikes. You hear the weather warning but probably fail to act on it. The sky darkens. Then the storm hits with full fury, and the air is a howling whiteness. One by one, your links to the machine age break down. Electricity flickers out, cutting off the TV. Batteries fade, cutting off the radio. Phones go dead. Roads become impossible, and cars get stuck. Food supplies dwindle. Day to day vestiges of modern civilization – bank machines, mutual funds, mass retailers, computers, satellites, airplanes, governments – all recede into irrelevance. Picture yourself and your loved ones in the midst of a howling blizzard that lasts several years. Think about what you would need, who could help you, and why your fate might matter to anybody other than yourself. That is how to plan for a saecular winter. Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted.” – Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning

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234 Comments
  1. bluestem says:

    ” The lack of foresight by citizens”… that seems to pretty well sum it up. Good article, Jim. John

    4th November 2012 at 9:28 pm

  2. sangell says:

    We are a pretty polyglot society these days. Not everyone is on the same page. What you consider to be ‘your’ country is, to a beaner from Central America, a new land, to be exploited and shaped in just the same way an English colonist in the 17th century looked upon a native Americans.

    Do you really think Filipino nurses working in a hospital in San Francisco know or even give a shit about the American Civil War? The potato famine or any of the other historical markers we mark our history by? Does an Indian immigrant mark his history by America’s or Britain’s?

    4th November 2012 at 10:03 pm

  3. Eddie says:

    “The 40% of Americans who think the country is on the right track are a tribute to our awful government run public education system or are smoking crack.”

    Very quotable, admin.

    if we fight wars, they will be fought over the oil. Who controls it. Who profits,Which country gets to fill their tanks. That’s what I think.

    4th November 2012 at 10:08 pm

  4. Old Buck says:

    I wish that there a box on the ballot none of the above

    4th November 2012 at 10:12 pm

  5. JIMSKI says:

    I have been off and on around here for a couple of years now. I respect the admin and appriciate the work he does in spreading the word about the burning platform our government has created. Having said that post like these seem more religous in nature then based on observable facts. Like religion we are “taught” that certain historical events played pivotal roles in shaping what will be our future.

    The problem i see is that history is written by the winners. History is malable to those with an agenda and facts can be twisted like a bls release. What i read in grade school about abe lincoln is nothing like a read now. Who is telling the truth and who is twisting.

    I read the book. I have also read the book of mormon. I place both of them in a pile marked to be determined

    In my opinion S&H have not adjusted for technology and the growth of social media as it pertains to rthe 4th turning. Have they ever made any statements about this part of socioty ? To be honest other than the book i hqve notk ept up with the authors. We now seem to have the ability for an idea or “meme’ to circle the globe in days. Of course most of the time it is a dancing cat or a kardashaian or whatever but i think the idea has merit. What if the profit is not a person this time but an idea that captures the culture. I think it will have a trigger (crisis ) but what if our prophet this time is a dancing cat of an idea that brings us to the end of this cycle, either destruction or glory?

    What could it look like? What would it be based on. 4th turning cycles tend to see a resurgance of church and temple attendance at the end as people look for answers everywhere to the crisis. Perhaps a meme of a spritual nature could grip the country or world with no one leader.

    In any event i wish i was younger or older so i could either not care or not understand the significance of the times we live in. To young to go quiety into the night to old to fightthe good fight.

    4th November 2012 at 10:13 pm

  6. Makati1 says:

    Nice ad for the book, and plug for Romney. I may buy the book, but would never vote for a Mormon, especially Romney, if I even bothered to vote. The choice is heads or tails on the same coin. Neither run the country. Those who do are no elected. And many are not even Americans. (Think Israel)

    That said, I see the US as never regaining their glory. It has gone missing for decades now and is lost. Once the world’s greatest power is now reduced to the world’s biggest debtor/beggar. All we export is war/weapons, death and worthless paper called dollars.

    After 278 years of my family living in the Us (1734) I have moved to the Philippines where they have more than two political parties and an actual election/democracy. Not to mention happy, family oriented people and real towns where everyone knows everyone else and they work together.

    So, Fourth Turning or not, yes, the West is in for a fall. A very steep and painful ride down the ladder of contraction until they arrive somewhere near the level I enjoy today, IF they are lucky.

    4th November 2012 at 10:24 pm

  7. Colma Rising says:

    Administrator:

    That was one of the most fabulous reads EVER. I’m a fan of your work in general, but really, this is off the charts. Why do I say that?

    Because I feel it looming. All of it. The more I see in life… in anecdotal observation… in data… even in vivid imagination, the more I realize that the “storm” is no joke.

    No matter what the tales are, no matter how many times I’ve read a historical narrative, I’ve never stopped myself so often throughout the days and weeks and, in reaction to what I see and hear ask myself:

    “Was it like this?….”

    Never before, with so much repetition have I made the conjecture:

    “Yes… very much… in its own way….”

    Never before have I concluded, admittedly with a growing and real fear, that it is and IT’S GOING TO FUCKING SUCK ASS and there’s nothing anyone’s going to do about it.

    Like finding oneself in a fight you’re not getting out of and knowing full well that IF you do, you’re going to have had your ass beaten, it’s daunting. I guess in a way that’s what it was all about during the last turnings, something that can’t be expressed in any other way…

    Thrown into the situation, the hows and whys will have to wait… for now we’re all going to have to tuck our chins and elbows, stand back to back looking beyond the insurmountable, and clock the proverbial beast with no other objective but driving through it, kicking it when its down, and hopefully being able to walk away with limps and a shrugs…

    Some things just can’t matter anymore. It’s getting beyond ridiculous in the realm of possibility.

    4th November 2012 at 10:26 pm

  8. Administrator says:

    Makati1

    Glad to see the ignorant masses are as ignorant as ever. Your comprehension skills leave much to be desired if you think I am plugging Romney. I guess foeign educational institutions are as bad as our public schools.

    4th November 2012 at 10:27 pm

  9. Administrator says:

    Makati1’s Phillipine paradise

    4th November 2012 at 10:41 pm

  10. Makati1 says:

    Funny, I got that impression from the picture placement and a few other comments. Sorry if I misunderstood your position.

    As for my education, totally US and back when it was still a real education. (50s & 60s) I’m 68 and just moved here 4 years ago when I retired. I’ve been to the Middle East, Dubai twice, and a few other countries. If you never leave the US (North America), you have no idea how different the world is from what you were told. But northeast or south western Philly are close examples of what is to come in the US. I lived in Philly for 4 years before I moved here.

    I do like your site and read all of the articles. Once again, sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion.

    4th November 2012 at 10:44 pm

  11. Colma Rising says:

    Bukaki1:

    I’m happy to see that the best and brightest of the Philippines have moved stateside while we’ve sent our hapless and lacking there…

    Perhaps you would enjoy the welcoming arms of the Chinese Hegemony and their benevolent multiculturalism in the near future.

    4th November 2012 at 10:49 pm

  12. Makati1 says:

    Nice pic and yes, those places do exist…but then America is only a few years from similar sights.

    I could also show you as many places that have million dollar homes and condo towers and malls that would make the US look 2nd class. But, even the people who live in those places are happy and the kids are healthy and play and laugh just as any other kid does.

    Too many people have visions of a Philippines that existed during WW2 or the Korean war or Vietnam. That Philippines does not exist for the most part today. Try coming here for a few weeks vacation and see the real Philippines.

    4th November 2012 at 10:50 pm

  13. Makati1 says:

    Colma, your remarks only show your ignorance. That nurse you will need in the future probably got his/her degree here in the Philippines. Likewise the heart surgeon. There are over 250,000 Americans living here now and more coming all of the time. Thousands are leaving the USS Titanic as it has hit a fiscal iceberg and is sinking.

    As for the Philippines in the US. Yes, they do live there for now. But, ask them if they have given up their Philippine Citizenship for America. Most have not. They are buying condos or homes here in the Ps for when they return home. Americans will soon have to go to Asian countries to get decent jobs.

    As for China. I don’t see them invading foreign 3rd world countries and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians every year like the US. They don’t have to. They just wait for the US to go broke and they will be ready to pick up the pieces. Don’t assume the US is immune from China.

    4th November 2012 at 10:59 pm

  14. Colma Rising says:

    Bukaki1:

    I don’t think you realize your ignorance, and perhaps you have misspoken yet again. Only a buffoon would dare lecture me about the beautiful Pinoy. Find Colma on a map… better yet, ask a Filipino about Daly City.

    Like the warnings of the 4th Turning, you have no gauge as those who know have passed. I can guarantee you that I’ve spent more time with veterans of World War II from the land you now hail from. Perhaps you would do better to dig into a history book rather than show up talking shit about a post with nothing but your dick in your lumpia-greased hand.

    The China you believe you know is a fiction. If you think for a moment anybody here hasn’t talked at great length of their plans or desires, you obviously HAVEN’T read much here.

    I will accept your apologies when you re-read and research a little more as to what the fuck you’re talking about.

    4th November 2012 at 11:13 pm

  15. sensetti says:

    Thanks Admin great read. I have been preparing for a total collapse of society for years now. The way I live my life is geared towards survival after the crash, I know it’s going to happen and I can’t live any other way.

    4th November 2012 at 11:36 pm

  16. Makati1 says:

    Colma, don’t look now, but your ignorance is showing. My father and two uncles served in WW2. One in the Pacific and here in the Philippines. My bro in law spent time here during Vietnam. You assume you know China. Could it be a bias? I do know the Us of A and know that it is headed for the dumpster. The Filipinos living there will come home over the next few years to get away from the police state and the racial bias that is growing there. Wait and see.

    Colma and Daly City only come up in maps as in California, USA.

    When I get the hose built out in the province, I am hoping my oldest daughter and her family will come to live with me here. We shall see.

    5th November 2012 at 12:02 am

  17. Leobeer says:

    Makati1, I am sure many that left Germany when the Nazis came to power were ridiculed too. I know that moving from one’s homeland is a huge step that most are afraid to take. You are obviously happy with your choice and that is the most important thing. I hope all continues well for you.

    5th November 2012 at 12:04 am

  18. TeresaE says:

    “Libertarians will not be happy with developments over the next fifteen years.”

    That’s ok, after the past 15 (30), we’re getting more used to our disbelief at the idiots that surround us.

    “The majority believe that government can protect them, provide for them, and pay their way.”

    Yep. Exactly.

    Thank you so much for continuing to be my Ben Franklin. You enlighten, you amuse, you shock. Most importantly, you help to wake more up. In awe again, thank you.

    5th November 2012 at 12:11 am

  19. AKAnon says:

    Another excellent piece, Admin. Thank you.

    5th November 2012 at 12:30 am

  20. marissa says:

    Leaving on our fact finding mission to Ecuador in about 24 hours. I’m totally on board with Makati1 “Thousands are leaving the USS Titanic as it has hit a fiscal iceberg and is sinking.”

    Yep, we’re looking for an obscure corner of the earth to disappear into as I believe Admin is right on, and the complicated unsustainable systems of first world countries are on a guaranteed path to disaster.

    No place will be safe. Obscurity is good. Less complicated is more better.

    —————————————————————————————————————————–

    On a different note, I remember being glued to the television watching the live coverage of the fall of the Berlin Wall–the celebrations, the joy and exuberance–and thinking to myself what a wonderful future was in front of us now that the Cold War and the last vestiges of WW2 were finally finished. It was going to be a whole new world that had learned all the terrible lessons of the past, and the 21st century right around the corner would be a bright horizon. I had small children at the time and I was happy for them and for all of us.

    Nearly twenty five years later…..just wow. How has it all gone so badly and how could I have been so stupid?

    Everything’s gone off the rails. It didn’t have to be this way.

    5th November 2012 at 12:59 am

  21. SAH says:

    @Admin – love it. Especially the parts you wrote about ‘progressives’ and ‘linear thinkers’. I couldn’t agree more.

    @Colma – BBES, bro. Be safe in Cali.

    @Everyone else – wish you well in your preps.

    @NYC – Hubris, mutherfuckers. It’s a bitch.

    @America – you’re gonna elect a fuckhead for POTUS, again. Obamney sucks ass and all of you know it but you want to vote for someone who ‘has a chance of winning’, and you dont want to ‘throw away’ your vote. So, you throw it away by voting for one of the 2 equally asshole candidates as if one flavor of shit is gonna taste better than the other. Romney has nicer hair and a better looking wife. Obama has nicer teeth and better looking kids. That is as about as deep and significant as the differences go.

    Ron Paul R<3ution! Or if you don't want to write him in at least vote GJ. Admin made no shameless plugs for candidates, but there are mine.

    Not that it matters. My election prediction – an Obama win… Or theft of the election… Or declaration of martial law and refusing to leave the WH or whatever… Anyway, I think we have 4+ years of Obama coming regardless of how the ballots are cast.

    5th November 2012 at 1:09 am

  22. ecliptix543 says:

    At least we got to find out who The Stig was before it all went to shit…

    5th November 2012 at 1:50 am

  23. SAH says:

    @Marissa – 2 words explain it all: Baby Boomers.
    “Nearly twenty five years later…..just wow. How has it all gone so badly” – Baby Boomers took charge of everything.
    “and how could I have been so stupid?” – Baby Boomer?
    “Everything’s gone off the rails.” – yeah, no shit. Baby Boomers started the systematic derailing in the 1969-the 1970s by attacking the elders and traditional family values, morals, and culture. Then in the 80s-mid 1990s they turned their attention to attacking the youth and taking over corporate culture making it ruthless, greedy, and unethical. Then in the mid 1990s-today they turned their attention to attacking future unborn generations through debt, taking over government and growing it like a malignant cancer, and empire building around the globe. What we are seeing now is a full 40+ years of concerted effort by the BB generation to destroy America by derailing one American institution after another. Now we have Boomer Family Values, Boomer Culture, Boomer Corporations, Boomer Government, Boomer America, Boomer Debt, Boomer Everything. Its the fucking Age Of Aquarius Crisis the Boomers have been working on for a lifetime. And it’s shitty. But, of course, Boomers deny they had anything to do with it.
    “It didn’t have to be this way.” – yes it did. Boomers couldn’t be stopped. And the Crisis will only get worse through the mid 2020s.. FINALLY the Crisis can wrap to a close when BB start declining in overall power as a generation, exit and take their destructive Prophet Generation bullshit with them into the dirt.

    5th November 2012 at 1:58 am

  24. Gayle says:

    As the Storm approaches, I am struck by how pervasive the evil all around seems to be. The only refuge, psychologically and spiritually, is to focus on my own small world, enjoying whatever happy, lovely, or inspiring things I can experience while trying to be a positive influence when I am able.

    I never thought I’d become cynical and indifferent to the election process; the only reason I am voting is to participate in local contests and to write in Ron Paul. I can feel myself detaching from my lifelong ideal of being a “good citizen.”. My country embarrasses me much of the time. I wonder how many people struggle with the same kind of paradigm shifting.

    It’s a fascinating time to be alive, but it’s not fun. Great article by the way – thanks for all the research you do.

    5th November 2012 at 2:06 am

  25. Mikey says:

    @Marissa

    I’d also suggest considering Indonesia. Around the main islands I’m seeing nothing but new businesses opening up and the remodelling of old businesses. Corruption is being squished and there feels like a lot of hope in the air. Just avoid Bali. Too many dick-head Australians and unregulated growth.

    There’s always Singapore of course – it’s expensive, ultra-clean (some would say sterile) with functionally zero crime, but you need money there.

    5th November 2012 at 2:11 am

  26. marissa says:

    SAH, your bitter diatribe of blame game misses some important issues.

    Not every country (and the world has approximately 195 countries, you can look it up) had a baby boom after WW2. Yet much of the world is now facing all the same issues. Pretty narrow minded to *blame* the sorry state of affairs on just one generation of people from just one country. This mess is much much bigger than that.

    Once you smarten up a little to see that your blame aiming is preventing you from seeing the bigger picture of global theft, corruption, environmental degradation, and corporate government takeover, you might just be a bit less obnoxiously arrogant.

    That would be a good thing. Then you might be able to grasp what the real issues are.

    5th November 2012 at 2:33 am

  27. crazyivan says:

    ” Pretty narrow minded to *blame* the sorry state of affairs on just one generation of people from just one country. This mess is much much bigger than that.”- marissa

    Bingo.

    5th November 2012 at 3:38 am

  28. Reverse Engineer says:

    Well, it would be a stretch to label either Obama-sama or Rmoney as a “Prophet”, or that once installed in office as POTUS they will actually be “in control” of anything here. Both are Marionettes, and the Puppeteers most certainly are not Prophets, unless you consider Banksters doing “God’s Work” to be Prophets.

    After this glitch, you have the small problem that it is hard to imagine how we will get any kind of “Rebirth” 15 years or so down the line, if you figure the 4th Turning hit around 2007-8 or so. So as a cyclical phenomena, I still find it quite difficult to accept as likely that once all the Boomers Die Off things will improve all that much.

    The 4 Turnings represent a cyclical phenomena in a general Growth paradigm that has been ongoing since Neolithic times and the invention of Agriculture. I don’t think it adequately represents what will occur in a contraction period for Homo Sapiens. JMHO.

    RE
    http://doomsteaddiner.org

    5th November 2012 at 4:48 am

  29. Aussiemate says:

    Citizens you had your last chance with Ron Paul now lets see the USA take the wrap for the last 4 decades of wasted human effort … them are humans not (beings) as there are now only zombies on the left or the right each with their own agenda (power & manipulation) of their opposites. about time for the 4th turning to happen but mother nature will make sure it does.

    5th November 2012 at 5:21 am

  30. flash says:

    admin, precise and to the point. Great work!
    We’re all #$%^#$ regardless the choice of can kicker A or kicker B.

    5th November 2012 at 6:18 am

  31. sensetti says:

    Reverse Engineer says: Well, it would be a stretch to label either Obama-sama or Romney as a “Prophet”,

    RE. Romney being born in 1947 at the end of WWll is a Prophet by definition.

    “Prophet generations are born near the end of a Crisis, during a time of rejuvenated community life and consensus around a new societal order. Prophets grow up as the increasingly indulged children of this post-Crisis era, come of age as self-absorbed young crusaders of an Awakening, focus on morals and principles in midlife, and emerge as elders guiding another Crisis”

    5th November 2012 at 8:05 am

  32. Kill Bill says:

    Obomney a prophet….

    Sure, if you believe in the debbil.

    ~~~~~

    BB start declining in overall power as a generation, exit and take their destructive Prophet Generation bullshit with them into the dirt. -SAH

    Paint much?

    5th November 2012 at 8:16 am

  33. sensetti says:

    The discussion of moving to another country misses one HUGE point. I believe the world will once again be engulfed in a World War. The United States Military is still the most powerful on the planet and I will take my chances in the homeland. Yes, maybe the nukes will fly and it won’t matter, but why would I want to move to an island and wait for an invasion of a foreign power.

    5th November 2012 at 8:20 am

  34. INTJ_4_truth says:

    Another great essay – thank you. I will add this book to my list.

    I do believe in cycles and rhythms having an impact on humans AND that this information is likely thousands of years old.

    A question – and forgive me if it’s addressed in the book – but would it not be possible for the banks that seem to have an inordinate ability to survive, intact, through the centuries – (perhaps because they too understand the cyclical nature of the world) to get out ahead and steer events to their own advantage?

    Is it possible that powerful and influential groups – who understand what is coming next even though there are no survivors to tell the tale – can advantageously use these “turnings” to their own benefit and subsequently increase their power and influence to the detriment of the rest of us?

    5th November 2012 at 8:42 am

  35. Kill Bill says:

    The Fourth Turning is a Crisis. This is an era in which America’s institutional life is destroyed and rebuilt in response to a perceived threat to the nation’s survival -Strauss and Howe theory.

    Well, i cant reply on this since I havent read the book or prescribe to the Strauss Howe theory.

    But, Has the nation lost trust in the political and economic system?

    Many think so. The 0.1% obviously think things are just hunky dory. The fools of casa blanca are acting as if nothing is amiss.

    The dullards and dolts watching the hundred hours of Honey Boo Boo they have recorded on their DVR have no idea whats going on outside their tiny cavern of existence lighted by reality shows emanating from high energy plasma of the oversized sparkle box.

    Maybe a mass coronal ejection will fry the diodes, explode the capacitors and fry the hundreds of gigabytes of idiot saturated ram on their reality device and they will climb out of their delusional state and take the trash to the curb.

    But I am not wagering that will happen anytime soon.

    5th November 2012 at 8:42 am

  36. Eddie says:

    If we’re discussing Prophet motive and Prophet potential…I think you should consider Ryan. He’s more of a true believer than the others. He could be your guy.

    5th November 2012 at 8:55 am

  37. Christopher Harrison says:

    I think that this article just briefly touched on the bottom 90% of the iceberg while focusing on the 10% sticking out of the water.

    The fiscal problems we face are very real and immediate. I’d place the point at which we should have started dealing with them much further back than Admin. He says we should have started doing something back in the late 90s and early 2000s. I actually place that point all the way back in 1987, when the Plunge Protection Team was formed in the aftermath of the stock market correction in that same year. Had the financial markets been left to deal with the fallout of their chronic speculative frenzies, then we likely would not be in the position we are. But we are here now, and we have some 25 years worth of bubble to reconcile over the coming decade, regardless of the attempts of Bennie, Timmeh and the rest of Wall Street’s lackeys in the controlling bureaucracies to reinflate the bubble. But these financial problems are the 10% of the iceberg sticking out of the water for all to see. The real problems, as always, are below the surface where very few people are actually trying to look at them.

    The real predicaments — the 90% of the iceberg that is submerged — go well beyond Strauss and Howe’s work. They are the two sides of mother nature’s vise that we’re currently caught between: reduced access to energy (liquid fuels in particular) and ecological collapse. Conventional oil production peaked in 2005-06. While non-conventional sources have filled the gap since then, they have much lower EROEI and are not economically feasible when the price dips below a certain level. This will all lead to a relative shortage of liquid fuels in the global north — at least in comparison to the supplies we’re used to having readily available — which will in turn have a negative impact on just about every other area of our economy, even the extraction/production of other forms of energy (nuclear, wind, solar, coal, nat gas, etc).

    Ecological collapse is an even bigger predicament. We have convinced ourselves over the last 200 years — and especially over the last 50 — that “the environment” is some “other” out there beyond human civilization and technology. The reality is that we still depend upon the natural world and its functioning ecosystems to provide us with ALL of the necessities of life — food, water, resources for shelter and energy, etc. Those ecosystems are currently collapsing due to human activities like mountaintop removal coal mining, tar sands mining, commercial overfishing of the oceans, deforestation, etc. We are literally in the midst of the sixth great extinction event in the earth’s history — one caused almost exclusively by humans. In the coming decades and even centuries, our progeny will be forced to live with the consequences of these choices, much as the people of Dark Ages Europe dealt with the consequences of the choices made during the Roman Empire — just on a much larger and harsher scale.

    From this perspective, it’s not necessarily S&H that we should be studying. We should be studying Tainter (The Collapse of Complex Societies). There won’t be a revival after this 4th turning, because this mother is going down no matter what. The best we can hope for in the shorter run is a better managed collapse. Any renewal in the longer run won’t come through the ballot box or even from a charismatic leader — it will only come from a remnant arising among the people, achieving critical mass that forces leaders to follow, and helping to significantly change the way we live our daily lives.

    As a personal example, this is why I spend most of my spare time learning about and practicing permaculture, and why I am trying to leverage the systems currently in place to reduce my dependency on those systems (paying off debt, investing in fruit trees and passive/active energy upgrades instead of financial instruments, etc.). Honestly, I don’t see any way through these predicaments OTHER than taking this kind of a path and centering my life more and more around the permaculture ethics of earth care, people care and return of surplus to the first two. While this doesn’t fit into the kind of grand narrative of great people doing great things promoted by popular history, it DOES mesh well with the “muddling through” borne out of a study of social history that focuses on the way that the actions of regular people in their regular lives can have significant impact on the way that societies change over time.

    5th November 2012 at 9:33 am

  38. Administrator says:

    INTJ_4_truth

    Bankers have always been a plague on our country and will not willingly relinquish their power and wealth. It would take a person or persons of great courage to confront and take on the bankers and win. Andrew Jackson was such a man.

    5th November 2012 at 9:41 am

  39. Mark says:

    For the Fourth Turning to have any scientific validity a controlled experiment would have to be done.

    I suggest Yugoslavia. Are the Serbs protesting on the behalf of the Bosnians?

    5th November 2012 at 9:53 am

  40. HammeringTruth says:

    I am writing in Ron Paul but Obama will win: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VWEuAt7NGE&feature=share&list=UUdCxhHJVEnkpWP19ATkPd2g

    5th November 2012 at 9:55 am

  41. Leobeer says:

    “why would I want to move to an island and wait for an invasion of a foreign power.” -sensetti

    Good point, moving to another country and being attacked by the mighty US military would totally suck. It might be a good idea to move somewhere where there isn’t any oil.

    5th November 2012 at 10:01 am

  42. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    What will the next 4th Turning look like?

    The Civil War?

    WW2?

    The American Revolution?

    5th November 2012 at 10:17 am

  43. Colma Rising says:

    BBES

    5th November 2012 at 10:17 am

  44. Richard Stump says:

    “Turnings” based on “generations” is linear ideation without clear demarcation of a “line” between the average 18 to 20 years required for “family generations”. Each family contains their “generations”, but society merges all familys into generations that vary by the seconds of what we know as “TIME”, ( which is an abstract NOTHING based upon MOTION). So “generation ideation” as a concept controlling the abstraction known as “HISTORY” in a cyclical manner is reasoning “sand castles of HISTORY” using actual events that occur in REAL points of linear MOTION” of the planet EARTH. We have enough REAL TIME PROBLEMS without being pestered with B.S. nonsensical abstractions. Get REAL, writer. Sincerely Sorry about your mental problems, Doc

    5th November 2012 at 10:21 am

  45. Administrator says:

    Dick Stump

    The drivel you just typed makes me understand why the country is in such peril. If gibberish was literature, you’d win a Nobel prize.

    5th November 2012 at 10:24 am

  46. Eddie says:

    “What will the next 4th Turning look like?The Civil War?WW2?The American Revolution?”

    Maybe a planetary despot who puts himself in charge of scarce resources…so they won’t be….you know…wasted. Yeah, that’s it. Someone who will control all the oil, water and air, and distribute it for the greatest good for the greatest number.

    (shivers uncontrollably)

    5th November 2012 at 10:30 am

  47. Administrator says:

    TPC

    How about all three simultaneously.

    5th November 2012 at 10:35 am

  48. Richard Stump says:

    We don’t need no stinking “Prophet”. The prophet “idea” is futile reasoning to produce “HOPE” is the followers of any idiot claiming such power of foretelling the future! One must look clearly at the present condition of our human race as we are being pulled down the path to ruin by the “History SHAPERS”. Look back at the 100 years under the FEDERAL RESERVE Conspiratorial YOKE. It does not take a prophet to understand if we don’t TAKE the History Shaping Crowd out of their financial POWER positions, in politics, Money, Religion and their MEDIA control they are KILLING our stupid asses (Jackasses that is). Now these BOYZ laid out their road map for HISTORY SHAPING in the 1700’s etc. So it does not take a “Prophet” to predict that millions of USA citizens are dying slow deaths from the poisoned FOOD, WATER, AIR etc because we J>A>s are allowing our history to be shaped by the private BANKERS of the world!!, Wake up DUMMIES, Doc

    5th November 2012 at 10:38 am

  49. Administrator says:

    Dick Stump wasn’t satisfied to shit on the site just once with his conspiracy theories. The capital letters don’t really make you seem CRAZY. Are those voices in your head real?

    We are all enthralled by your grasp of world history.

    Tell us MORE.

    5th November 2012 at 10:46 am

  50. Rob in Nova Scotia says:

    Wow Stumpy that was one of the best examples of circular thinking I’ve ever seen and when I say circular I mean you go round and round and never make a point.

    5th November 2012 at 11:30 am

  51. Colma Rising says:

    Archetypes, folks…. What is meant by “Prophet” is an archetypical description of a former shitbag hippie who has become not only an irresponsible denier of their role in the destruction of this great country…

    Further, having wrecked the hopes of their offspring repeatedly, through divorce and economic calamity, they believe that moving to Asian countries to start new families and collecting retirement benefits somehow translates to respect and forward thinking so lacking throughout their pathetic lives.

    When their money runs out or they die, their new families will be chastized and driven out of ethnocentric circles which make up southeast asia, forced to attempt entry to the US where their step and half-siblings will take them in, all the while shaking their heads at the pure idiocy embodied in the situation.

    Or something like that.

    5th November 2012 at 11:33 am

  52. sharonsj says:

    Obama is a disappointment, but Romney is no prophet. Romney changes his position constantly, so you have no real idea of what he’d do–unless you read books by investigative reporter Greg Palast. Then you’d know for sure that Romney’s job creation is limited to creating them in China.

    The vulture capitalist combine that underhandedly took over Delco auto parts included Mitt Romney. They closed Delco, put 25,000 Americans out of work, and shipped every Delco plant to China.

    Bain Capital took over 78 companies and dismantled 22% of them. Workers either lost their jobs or, after some companies were reorganized, were offered their jobs back but at a reduced salary and benefits. So if any of you think Romney is going to create middle class jobs, you are delusional.

    That said, our problems are so bad that I see no real solutions. You’d better start prepping or you’ll be on the food and gas lines with the rest of America.

    5th November 2012 at 11:36 am

  53. Administrator says:

    sharonsj

    You need to read the book to understand the term Prophet. It is a generational term, not a term describing the positive aspects of Romney by comparing him to Moses or Abraham.

    5th November 2012 at 11:43 am

  54. Out of the Box says:

    Exceptional post Jim and great come back to “Stump Dick”. A couple of thoughts here, First, a lot of talk from your readers of moving to another country is simply stupid. This is all after the fact. The time to do that was 15 years ago and not now out of desperation. Next, a lot of wasted talk about politics. Why? All politics are lies and bullshit. It’s nothing but politainment or as Gerald Celente says, “Politics is nothing but show business for ugly people”. We are simply at the gates of a major transformation period that will come with intense pain accompanied with a huge loss of human life. I guess it will come as a “Black Swan” chain yanking event. Most of the masses don’t really believe we have a critical problem. The American population of sheep are going to have to get their chain yanked before we will all get down to business of getting through this Fourth Turning. Thanks again Jim for all your great articles.

    5th November 2012 at 11:51 am

  55. Will a Prophet Assume Control? | CNT News says:

    [...] Will a Prophet Assume Command? (theburningplatform.com) [...]

    5th November 2012 at 12:10 pm

  56. Administrator says:

    For anyone interested in a quick overview of generational theory, click this link:

    http://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/insight-overview.html

    5th November 2012 at 12:28 pm

  57. SSS says:

    “Each family contains their “generations”, but society merges all familys into generations that vary by the seconds of what we know as “TIME”, ( which is an abstract NOTHING based upon MOTION). So “generation ideation” as a concept controlling the abstraction known as “HISTORY” in a cyclical manner is reasoning “sand castles of HISTORY” using actual events that occur in REAL points of linear MOTION” of the planet EARTH.”
    —-Richard Stump

    Mama mia, Stumpy, ‘atsa TBP classic, worthy of being archived under “statements that make your head spin.”

    5th November 2012 at 12:45 pm

  58. Lucille Rothstein says:

    Anybody ever see the “Lost” series. Now that is worth seeing. It’s over 100 hours of TV Viewing, but it does make for good TV viewing. It’s better than watching politics and or reading boring books like the fourth turning. Roku Rocks! You can buy it at Wally world on the cheap, if you get Netflix for 8.00 and change a month you can watch all kinds of TV on it. You do need internet access though. Just get the cheapest internet with wireless capability and boom! You can get Roku hooked up to it. You also can have a whole lot of freebie movies on there even if you don’t get Netflix. You wont have a monthly bill, if you don’t want to have one. Anyway as far as the prophet and cataclyst and whatever, I think technology is all we really need and someone that can lead us through the tech world that we need. We don’t really care for people, since they are flawed and they all have an agenda. We only need a man of sin, a man of science, a man made from DNA and technology, who is perfect in every way. Not a man born to a woman or brought up with the elitest. We need someone that has been made by all men and women alike someone that shares something of all of us. He alone can lead this world. He can be our messiah, not the jewish failure that so many are willing to kill for. We need our NEO the “ONE” he can get us through this Matrix and relieve us of the pain that we all inflict on each other. I understand if you dont post this, since you are most likely old and are no longer a viable in neither this society or the one to come. It probably scares you and you probably wish that I didn’t post, I am looking forward to the day when platforms like this no longer exist and people like you are no longer even a memory cell in someones mind. To the future and beyond!

    5th November 2012 at 12:49 pm

  59. flash says:

    Tonto..shit in your nest, move to another nest…rinse, spin,repeat..t’s the American way.

    5th November 2012 at 12:51 pm

  60. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    The Millennial generation is very strange (at least in my own limited experience).

    There are those of us who remember visits from WW2 vets, and honoring them quite regularly growing up. We listened to stories of the Great Depression, and learned how terrible things were back then. These people were our heroes, and how great were those who overcame such adversity!

    Unfortunately, there is a giant portion of the millennial population who have grown up under the thumb of TSA/Patriot Act, who never sat at grandpa’s knee and learned of the horrors of WW2 or The Great Depression. The internet, mountains of videogames, and facebook have all served to distance them from the past, as well as their humanity.

    These kids vote for Ron Paul on their facebook page, but do so only out of a desire to ‘rebel’ against their parent’s parties. They do not delve through the causes of the candidates, and do not grasp how horribly screwed we are, how horribly our forebears have pissed away The American Dream and left nothing but a well processed, steaming pile of shit in their wake.

    I guess on the upside, the “older” Millennials tend to have a lot of pull with the younger ones, so maybe we can grab them by the ears and tow them in the right direction (while at the same time supporting our parents when THEY are forced to move in with US as pensions, bonds and social security dry up at an exponential rate.)

    5th November 2012 at 12:58 pm

  61. St Udio says:

    my Gary Johnson vote will be a vote for a generational prophet… Romney is not the only one on the presidential list

    5th November 2012 at 1:00 pm

  62. Anonymous says:

    @Lucille Rothstein
    Someone may bother to read your inane drivel if you were to learn to use and apply paragraphs properly .

    5th November 2012 at 1:05 pm

  63. Rob in Nova Scotia says:

    @Lucille

    Wow and I thought when I finished reading what Dick Stump wrote I had my quota of idiotic drivel for November 5th then along came you with your Matrix/Netflix rant. Not sure how it was possible but you have managed to trump one of the best circular arguments I have seen for a while with what can be best described as a vortex argument. That being turds floating in a circular motion to be flushed down the drain shortly by the regulars here on TBP.

    5th November 2012 at 1:20 pm

  64. Administrator says:

    Jesus, this article is attracting some real loonies. Lucille Rothstein is the female Dick Stump on this thread.

    5th November 2012 at 1:21 pm

  65. SAH says:

    @Marissa

    First off, we are talking about Strauss and Howe here (at least Admin, Colma and I were) and they were (Strauss is dead)/are (Howe is still kicking) American, and their generational theories map Anglo-American history from the 15th century to the present/future. They quite clearly state in their works that the timing and nature of the generations they write about, and the 4 turnings, are valid only for America (and England leading up to America). While other countries and cultures may have generational archetypes and turnings of their own, that is not what Strauss and Howe were writing about.

    My blunt assignment of blame on the SEBBs is very valid since we are talking about an Anglo-American-centric theory. I also fully expect SEBBs to obfuscate and deny any responsibility and to constantly contradict themselves like a bunch of selfish, narcissistic hypocrites – this is just an inevitability of the ‘prophet generation’ archetype.

    Your comment “Not every country (and the world has approximately 195 countries, you can look it up) had a baby boom after WW2.” No shit, Sherlock – and it seems you are scrambling to expatriate yourself to one of those countries that was not systematically derailed by the SEBBs and their culture war. You know, some nice out-of-the-way place that maintained traditional cultural values, escaped Boomer greed-is-good corporatism, and has a smaller government. In other words – you are trying to get your ass as far away from the influence of American Baby Boomers as you can. I think actions speak louder than words, so your planned escape from the Boomer shitstorm of the American 4th turning more damning toward their destruction of America (and through influence, the entire Western world) than my words.

    You also said “Yet much of the world is now facing all the same issues. Pretty narrow minded to *blame* the sorry state of affairs on just one generation of people from just one country.” – Hmmm… What countries in the world are going to shit the hardest? 1. America – and by association Europe and The Commonwealth of Nations. What do those places have in common? The American Baby Boom Generation has set the cultural tone and been the military/economic/cultural leader for the past 40 years. The countries on Earth where there were no Baby Boomers and where American SEBBs exerted the least cultural influence and political/economic control seem to be doing just fine in comparison. Equador? China? Indonesia? Singapore? Belize? Brasil? Etc etc. If the BB weren’t responsible for the destruction of America (and by association the Western World) then why the fuck would there be a mathematically perfect DIRECT PROPORTIONAL RELATIONSHIP between how shitty the crisis is in any given country and the influence of the American Baby Boomers in that country over the past 40 years?

    Finally, you state “Once you smarten up a little to see that your blame aiming is preventing you from seeing the bigger picture of global theft, corruption, environmental degradation, and corporate government takeover, you might just be a bit less obnoxiously arrogant.” Well, you might seem like just a little bit less of a selfish, stupid, hypocritical Baby Boomer apologist if you were trying to crawl into the belly of the Baby Boomer beast by planting yourself firmly in one of those fine nations where Baby Boomers have shoved their global theft, corruption, environmental degradation, and corporate government takeover down our throats.

    In conclusion, I will go so far as to say that American Baby Boomers ruined the entire Western World. That’s right, Marissa. Previously I have kept it to blaming them for destroying America. But it’s clear they actually ruined the entire civilized Western World – which is EXACTLY why you and your ilk are attempting to escape to some 3rd world brown country where the SEBBs haven’t had that much influence.

    5th November 2012 at 1:28 pm

  66. flash says:

    Stu ck -AND WHAT IS HIS PREDICTION? ——- IT IS THAT AMERICA WILL BECOME A RELIGIOUS TOTALITARIAN/FASCIST STATE.

    I’d bet on it albeit under a new and bastardized from of Christianity, like you say.
    Thanks for the heads up on Peikoff . I’m checking him out now.

    5th November 2012 at 1:33 pm

  67. Eddie says:

    “Religious totalitarian fascist state”

    My greatest fear, and the odds are pretty good for it. I have to check out Pelkoff as well.

    5th November 2012 at 2:26 pm

  68. Colma Rising says:

    It’s so true, SAH! LOL

    The comments start immediately about how everyone’s moving out.

    Fucking good riddance. I’ll hit the board tonight along that vein. There is a severe misunderstanding about the nature of world-wide effects.

    Fucking SEBB’s actually think they can escape and grow fumanchoos and meditate it all away.

    Classic

    5th November 2012 at 2:26 pm

  69. SSS says:

    “The reality is that we still depend upon the natural world and its functioning ecosystems to provide us with ALL of the necessities of life — food, water, resources for shelter and energy, etc. Those ecosystems are currently collapsing due to human activities like mountaintop removal coal mining, tar sands mining, commercial overfishing of the oceans, deforestation, etc. We are literally in the midst of the sixth great extinction event in the earth’s history — one caused almost exclusively by humans.”
    —-Christopher Harrison

    So, according to you, Chris, the first FIVE extinction events in earth’s history weren’t man made, but this one is. Six billion years after the Big Bang, and you, in your infinite wisdom, pick this particular time as an extinction event caused by humans.

    Ok, let’s go with that. So, what is your proposal to stop Brazilian campesinos from clearing wide swaths of forest in the Amazon Basin? And how will you stop the Chinese and Indian governments from building coal-fired power plants at breakneck speed, the Canadian government from letting private companies mine the tar sands of Alberta, and the Japanese, Norwegian, Peruvian, and Ecuadoran governments from letting private fishing fleets go out in the oceans to catch fish for large populations that have seafood as a staple of their diets? There are more questions, but I’ll stop there because I think you should have the big picture of where I’m coming from, Chris.

    I hope you suggest an International Global Warming Treaty, Chris. I really do. Because I’m just getting “warmed up” myself.

    5th November 2012 at 2:37 pm

  70. milton says:

    The thing that will save the country from the fate envisioned in The fourth Turning is the coming boom in oil and gas. We will be the largest producer of the fuels in the world because of fracking and new technologies and consequently we will be the wealthiest nation on the planet. There will be enough friches to support all those entitlement .programs but of course the true wealth will be doled out the political cronies of the administration and we will wind up as a Socialist dictatorship until the revolution

    5th November 2012 at 3:02 pm

  71. Administrator says:

    Damn, the loonies are loose. Fracking is going to save the country???? Yikes. The ignorant masses are on the march.

    5th November 2012 at 3:12 pm

  72. Stucky says:

    My apologies if this article is in the wrong thread.

    But it is an interesting view of our elections from a German point of view.

    In short, they say we’re fucked no matter who wins. Ant Romney lovers here will probably have their brain explode, as the Krauts consider him (and the Tea Party) to be the West’s Taliban. They’re not to keen on Obama either.

    The point being ….. unlike 90% of Amurican voters … the Germans understand that; We. Are. Fucked.

    ——————————————————————————-

    America Has Already Lost Tuesday’s Election
    A Commentary by Jakob Augstein

    Germans see the US election as a battle between the good Obama and the evil Romney. But this is a mistake. Regardless of who wins the election on Tuesday, total capitalism is America’s true ruler, and it has the power to destroy the country.

    The United States Army is developing a weapon that can reach — and destroy — any location on Earth within an hour. At the same time, power lines held up by wooden poles dangle over the streets of Brooklyn, Queens and New Jersey. Hurricane Sandy ripped them apart there and in communities across the East Coast last week, and many places remain without electricity. That’s America, where high-tech options are available only to the elite, and the rest live under conditions comparable to a those of a developing nation. No country has produced more Nobel Prize winners, yet in New York City hospitals had to be evacuated during the storm because their emergency generators didn’t work properly.

    Anyone who sees this as a contradiction has failed to grasp the fact that America is a country of total capitalism. Its functionaries have no need of public hospitals or of a reliable power supply to private homes. The elite have their own infrastructure. Total capitalism, however, has left American society in ruins and crippled the government. America’s fate is not just an accident produced by the system. It is a consequence of that system.

    Obama couldn’t change this, and Romney wouldn’t be able to either. Europe is mistaken if it views the election as a choice between the forces of good and evil. And it certainly doesn’t amount to a potential change in political direction as some newspapers on the Continent would have us believe.

    A Powerless President

    Romney, the exceedingly wealthy business man, and Obama, the cultivated civil rights lawyer, are two faces of a political system that no longer has much to do with democracy as we understand it. Democracy is about choice, but Americans don’t really have much of a choice. Obama proved this. Nearly four years ago, it seemed like a new beginning for America when he took office. But this was a misunderstanding. Obama didn’t close the Guantanamo Bay detention camp, nor did he lift immunity for alleged war criminals from the Bush-era, or regulate the financial markets, and climate change was hardly discussed during the current election campaign. The military, the banks, industry — the people are helpless in the face of their power, as is the president.

    Not even credit default swaps, the kind of investment that brought down Lehman Brothers and took Western economies to the brink, has been banned or even better regulated. It is likely the case that Obama wanted to do more, but couldn’t. But what role does that play in the bigger picture?

    We want to believe that Obama failed because of the conservatives inside his own country. Indeed, the fanatics that Mitt Romney depends on have jettisoned everything that distinguishes the West: science and logic, reason and moderation, even simple decency. They hate homosexuals, the weak and the state. They oppress women and persecute immigrants. Their moralizing about abortion doesn’t even spare the victims of rape. They are the Taliban of the West.

    The Winner Makes No Difference to Europe

    Still, they are only the symptom of America’s failure, not the cause. In reality, neither the idealists and Democrats, nor the useful idiots of the Tea Party have any power over the circumstances.

    From a European perspective, it doesn’t matter who wins this election. Only US foreign policy is important to us — and Obama is no dove and Romney no hawk. The incumbent president prefers to wage his wars with drones instead of troops, though the victims probably don’t care if they’re killed by man or machine. Meanwhile, despite all the criticism, his challenger says he wouldn’t join Israel were the country to go to war with Iran because the US can now no longer afford such a thing.

    In any case, it is wrong to characterize Republicans as the party of warmongers and Democrats as the party of peace — or even to call the latter a left-wing party at all. After all, it was Democratic presidents Harry S. Truman, John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson who started the wars in Korea and Vietnam. Republican presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower and Richard Nixon ended these wars. And Ronald Reagan, who Europeans see as the embodiment of both the evil and absurd aspects of American politics, was a peaceful man compared to the standards we have since become accustomed to. He only ever invaded Grenada.

    The truth is that we simply no longer understand America. Looking at the country from Germany and Europe, we see a foreign culture. The political system is in the hands of big business and its lobbyists. The checks and balances have failed. And a perverse mix of irresponsibility, greed and religious zealotry dominate public opinion.

    The downfall of the American empire has begun. It could be that the country’s citizens wouldn’t be able to stop it no matter how hard they tried. But they aren’t even trying.

    5th November 2012 at 3:17 pm

  73. Administrator says:

    “The refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the revolution.”

    -Benjamin Franklin

    5th November 2012 at 3:17 pm

  74. SSS says:

    milton

    The Administrator is a secret admirer of fracking, so he’s just messing with you to stir up trouble. All you need to do is hang in there a bit longer and help him see the light on fracking. Trust me on this one. You’ll be glad you did.

    5th November 2012 at 3:39 pm

  75. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @Stucky – A good article, except their use of the words “total capitlism” is a bit odd.

    From the way they use it, its the same as crony capitalism?

    5th November 2012 at 3:54 pm

  76. Colma Rising says:

    I applaud with enthusiasm fit for an apprentice who has save his crew time by cutting into plaster with a saw and clipped several water and poopy pipes at the foolishness of Bookaki1 and his troop of retards.

    Having no idea but maps and the illusion of well-being, the fool dares to tell me that Fillipinos, bless their merry hearts, do not apply for citizenship and retain their natural citizenship. That’s fucking classic…

    My dear Bookaki1: I highly doubt your deserted stateside family is interested in your new homestead. As one who has more Pinoy friends and extended family than could be counted, I applaud your ignorance as to the status of the Fillipines as basically a dollar-pegged 51st state where dual citizens come and go, send money to and fro and do it all from my backyard.

    Trust me when I say that you are probably being milked and talked of with disdain by your friendly “democratic” township as we speak.

    The fact of the matter is that Boomer men like Bookaki1 can’t handle being around Boomer women. They can’t handle the lack of respect from their children here. They can only scrape by on a meager income and move to the East where they are met with a smile and hope. To say that one moves to the East with the hope for freedom is the biggest sham.

    No, you move because you are gross and inhospitable to American women. You move where you cannot speak of politics and are afforded rights to the extent your Social Security check can buy.

    You yearn only for a companion that smiles and nods and open doors for you, because you simply have not earned it at home.

    Trust me. I know.

    5th November 2012 at 3:58 pm

  77. Kill Bill says:

    Anybody ever see the “Lost” series. Now that is worth seeing. It’s over 100 hours of TV Viewing, but it does make for good TV viewing. -LR

    Really? I need to watch 100 hours of stupid crap on the sparkle box of intentional ignorance? T

    Seems to me thats a large part of the problem with our society today.

    5th November 2012 at 4:14 pm

  78. Kill Bill says:

    The fact of the matter is that Boomer men like Bookaki1 can’t handle being around Boomer women. They can’t handle the lack of respect from their children here. -CR

    Okay. You made the claim.

    Prove it.

    5th November 2012 at 4:16 pm

  79. Agent P says:

    “Normalization of interest rates to 2007 levels would result in annual interest expense of $1 trillion, or 40% of current government revenues.”

    That quote from Mr. Quinn’s piece above is the take-away message in my view, because it explains how and why interest rates must remain low, until they no longer can. In fact, one could argue that the high precipice of economic uncertainty that we currently occupy along with the continuance of our entire socio-economic structure rests with the continuation of real interest rate capture by our governmental and monetary officials.

    5th November 2012 at 4:33 pm

  80. Thinker says:

    An excellent read, Jim. You definitely have a talent for putting all the pieces together. These will help historians tell the story years (generations) from now.

    And, from the comments, I think I need to finish my “cliff’s notes” version of T4T. Most people seem to lack even a basic understanding of the theory. As soon as I get done with all my 2013 planning for clients, I’ll wrap it up and get it posted.

    5th November 2012 at 4:41 pm

  81. Reality says:

    About 60-70% of American adults do not understand where reality lies: Thanks in part to our government educational system and in part because most people simply do not think about much beyond Self and Nowl and Me and If there is a problem, let someone else handle it!”. Government does not have a single dollar that it spends, not one Dollar! The private sector pays all government salaries INCLUDING THE INCOME TAX THOSE IN GOVERNMENT BELIEVE THEY PAY ON THEIR WAGES! The private sector pays for all government offices, heat, light, power, supplies, paid vacations, paid medical, reserved pensions –everything! Governments are supposed to be TRUSTEES of private sector funds given under duress by government demands for more and more and more. If this Country had mature adults today, a man like our current President, with almost no experience in the private sector, has no clue where all the money comes from that he wants spent into or through government because he has never experienced a full-time job in the private sector where he worked up from warehouse to head of a private company. No elected official in government should be allowed to campaign for office if he or she has not had at least 15 years of hands-on experience in the private sector and preferably of the kind noted above –worked up from a base to the top and kept a company moving along profitably when he decides to run for public office. Government is a double cost: (1) Pay and Officing for employees, (2)what it then chooses to spend beyond itself that was taken from private sector workers pay, demanded from them. Had such funds remained in the private sector, it would have been used more efficiently. Were there half as many people in our federal government, those people (who are now TAXES, would instead be workers in the private sector creating more goods and services for sale and the profits for those sales would be kept to be used again in the private sector to create more real wealth (not more rules and demands!). Mr Obama, though charming and a good speaker, has no life experience that could show him a really easy way to turn around this mess beginning with the understanding of how to do that. (I doubt Mr Romney has this easy way in mind, either, except since he has had a successful business career, I suspect IF/AFTER Election he would grab the idea and run with it) He could not use it without being elected becaused it would have to begin with a President AND half out here would not vote for him before the election because it just might make them have to get off their asses and get involved in turning this mess around. What I do not see out here are selfishness, shortsightednness, ignorance and greed AND no one giving a danh what kind of Country we are leaving our kids becazuse we have been too damn busy using their right to be as free as we have had the privilege of using up on ourselves! Mature adults would have accepted their responsibility to both our Founding Fathers AND our next generations. (Rome went through this but time has sped up since their 400 years! (Oh, up above here I I forgot another term for our current adults –SPOILED!
    Can you even imagine anyone today getting in those Covered Wagons and heaing West to make a better life! Gosh, no insurance, no supermarkets, no wagon stations, no roads, no paid medical, no pensions or even guaranteed wages! But there is a really SIMPLE way here IF our adults would move to reality and be willing to co-operate as a group toward fixing this for our kids!
    How come I know how to fix this when neither of the candidates do? Because I have observed into all this through 5 generations, have served in WWII and Korea (2 years each) have lost a child and a grandchild and a first marriage (23 years, 3 children ), have been in a 2nd marriage for 27 years, have worked most of my adult life in the private sector, 25 years without a salary, only got paid after the fact if the client was satisfied with my finished work (try that sometime!), have raised money for Congress and 2 of it’s fedederal Housing Agencies and instead of being thanked for my part in getting 2,400 new apartments built for low income seniors or families, all government did was screw me (and a lot of the fine private sector leaders who put up the money for all those apartments) so I KNOW government very well! It is the least efficient form of group among us and depends 100% on the output from the private sector for government to survive! It can create no real wealth and therefore becomes a cost to the private sector to have to factor-into it’s PRICES. The more government cost, the higher go our Prices, and the higher go oujr Prices, the less competitive we become in the world markets! It really is that simple, Gang! There is no solution for this mess the way the President understands things, and my solution could not be used by Governor Romney before election because the American people have forgotten how to think as a group looking for survival ahead! Yet this way that my life experience has taught me to understand, is simpe, logical, fair to everyone, and it would work very easily among adults who care about our Country and our Kids (problem is that are just not enough out here who do (are about our Country and our kids! And by the way, how many of you understand tjat this much-abused-by-human-beings planet is under huge stress right now and unless human nature makes a rapld change toward a decent survival, then the fact that we have passed the 7 BILLION HUMANS level and another BILLION will be here in just a few short years and then another BILLION aftger that in eve shorter years (when this planet maybe could have put up with about 3.5 BILLION of responsible human beings), do none of you project that and see how things ahead can only be chaotic unless we all wake up and understand that unless we begin to work together, and fast, there are going to be no recoveries that you all are hoping-for, because the way we are and have been for the last several thousand years, when things get tougher, instead of working together, we all pull inside our selfish shells and assure ourselves of chaos ahead. Period.

    5th November 2012 at 4:45 pm

  82. Kill Bill says:

    I forgot another term for our current adults –SPOILED! -Reality

    Another claim.

    Where would I find the information to back up this up?

    5th November 2012 at 5:06 pm

  83. Ron says:

    Reality,you write like a retard.Really?one long ass sentence.I hope that gave you a laugh admin.
    The Germans are a great people.Obama isnt the answer though.But the folks who think Romney well ride in on a white mormon horse and create 12 million jobs.Well your kidding yourselves.I find myself having to refrain from telling people this stuff.They are already bummed out enough as it is.
    I just tell people to remember Katrina and Sally and think of all the hungry desperate people.And imagine millions of them.And make sure your ready so you wont join them.

    5th November 2012 at 5:20 pm

  84. Ron says:

    Mabe i was being to harsh.Retards are smarter than that. Im sorry, im just annoyed at life.The elections and my wife wanting to watch Romney on the tube.All the people thinking Romney well fix things.And the other half of voters who think Obama is great.

    5th November 2012 at 5:27 pm

  85. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    When I was a newbie I at least made the attempt to communicate clearly.

    5th November 2012 at 5:36 pm

  86. George Elliott says:

    One additional factor, which has not even been mentioned here, is that there is a new religion in the world. It’s so new, it doesn’t even have a name yet. Although it’s an amalgam of Judaism, Christianity and Mormonism, none of those religions want anything to do with it because they all see it as a heresy. Strange to say, though its roots are in all three, the new kid on the block sees them as heresies too. A prudent person would have to ask: is it pure coincidence that a new religion, made from Judaism, Christianity and Mormonism, comes on the scene just as a Fourth Turning starts? Probably not, because a new religion, made from those three, would have no chance of overcoming those three at any other time. So if the timing of the new religion is by design, not by chance, then this Fourth Turning is going to be the turning of all turnings. Please Be Guided Accordingly.

    5th November 2012 at 5:45 pm

  87. Muck About says:

    @Christopher Harrison: (way back up the thread). You’ve hit the nail on the head. This fucker is going down and your reasoning is both critical and accurate. We have a two-headed bitch sucker going to eat us head and tail. On one side comes debt and default and depression (with or without hyperinflation depending on how lucky we get) and the other side of environmental collapse is taking place in slow motion as everyone stands around and watches it happen. down here in Florida, it is especially vile. when I was growing up (teen), I swam in Florida springs that were clear as gin. Now they are greenish tinged sewer outlets with clumps of green algae floating around. The lakes here in central Florida a mere 15 years ago had 10-15 foot visibility – now you can’t see a foot. The only thing that colored them was tannic acid from oak leaves rotting and running off. Now, severe pollution from agricultural run off of pesticides, fertilizer and leaky septic tanks are poisoning what used to be a pristine aquifer that originated in the Okefenokee Swamp in S. Georgia and ended in springs feeding rivers from the Suwannee to the Everglades.

    The Governor of Florida has vetoed a law that would require homeowners to periodically have their septic tanks and drain fields checked to insure they were working properly and not leaking sewage into the ground. Great work, Gov.. Too many rats in the box. A 75% die off in population would, in a few hundred years, restore our environment to what it should be. I think we’ll probably get that, given the intelligence of the current political leadership and population of this country.

    @SAH: If I had not been married happily for 55 years (and look forward to a few more), I’d ask you to consider cohabiting with me! You’ve got a fine mind, a great attitude and (in my minds’ eye) you’re probably a hotty too!.. /sarc on/ Please understand this is not a sexist comment! /sarc off/

    @Colma: We know you dislike anything outside California screwing, but give it a rest..

    @Stucky: Nice Germanic post. I can imagine the rest of the world watching us thrash and twist and turn and wonder WTF is going on and why are putting up with it.. We’re putting up with it because 47% of Americans are on the dole of one sort or another, self reliance is a non-starter anymore, honesty is a lost virtue and the big “I” and “me” rule the country.

    Respectfully submitted —

    MA

    5th November 2012 at 5:46 pm

  88. Arius says:

    Mr. Quinn, if the country re-elects nomad Obama over the potential prophet Romney, doesn’t that mean the coming crisis will need to be much worse before the prophet appears on the scene?

    5th November 2012 at 5:48 pm

  89. Muck About says:

    @Reality: Nice rant but awfully hard to read. You might want to exert a little tiny bit more effort to separate paragraphs, sentences and such to make it easier for the maroons here on TBP to read.

    MA

    5th November 2012 at 5:50 pm

  90. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    “A 75% die off in population would, in a few hundred years, restore our environment to what it should be”

    Hell, in a few hundred years you would have old growth forest coming in. It really only takes 15-20 years of being left alone for mother nature to begin correcting those imbalances.

    5th November 2012 at 6:09 pm

  91. Reverse Engineer says:

    “Romney being born in 1947 at the end of WWll is a Prophet by definition.”

    He is?

    Definition of Prophet:

    proph·et (prft)
    n.
    1. A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed.
    2. A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression.
    3. A predictor; a soothsayer.
    4. The chief spokesperson of a movement or cause.

    I don’t see how being born in 1947 makes a person fit any of the definitions of the word Prophet. I also don’t think Strauss & Howe can redefine the word to suit their ideas, because the word is so ridiculously loaded.

    Anyhow, the 4 stage cycles in Ecosystems was analyzed by Holling and Gunderson back in the 1970s, and has shown its applicability across the board into Economic theory as well as Human Social Systems. In case you missed it I covered this recently in “Panarchy & The One to The Many-The Final Countdown”

    http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/blog/2012/10/13/panarchy-the-one-to-the-many-the-final-countdown/

    4box-adaptive-cycle.gif

    “….The beauty of the Holling-Gunderson model of Panarchy is that it applies across the board to just about all ecosystems, from Trees and Forests to Insects to Mammalian life forms. It also has direct applications in Economics as well. Much of the work done on this stuff was done back in the 1970s, but some of it goes back as far as the 1940s.

    In a direct parallel to this work, you have the “4th Turning” Generational theory of Strauss & Howe, which identifies 4 major Eras that modern Homo Sapiens passes through on roughly and 80 year cycle. Each of these eras has a direct parallel in the cycles desribed by Holling & Gunderson.

    What is fundamentally different between these models is the Timeline issue, the Holling/Gunderson model is a time independent model which can work on many different timescales, where as the Strauss & Howe model is fixated on the 80 year timeline of modern history….”

    RE

    5th November 2012 at 6:28 pm

  92. sensetti says:

    Administrator says:
    RE

    You need to read the book to understand the term Prophet. It is a generational term, not a term describing the positive aspects of Romney by comparing him to Moses or Abraham.

    5th November 2012 at 7:11 pm

  93. tracy says:

    Wow! In all my years of reading articles on the internet..I have never seen the use of such large and grandious words…I feel like a kindergartener in a physics.

    5th November 2012 at 7:11 pm

  94. tracy says:

    class.

    5th November 2012 at 7:12 pm

  95. Gayle says:

    One of the reasons my countrymen and -women are so stupid is because they are totally under the spell of the alphabet networks’ “news” divisions.

    They are conditioned to frame reality according to what these corrupt organizations share with them. A big story on the nightly news must to be about something really important. Perhaps worse, stories that have no air time must not be worth thinking about or even knowing about. I know this is true because I was one of their victims for quite a while.

    Many of you are not old enough to remember TV news coverage during the Vietnam war. Americans were treated every night at dinner time to scenes of battle and blood, death and destruction from the battlefield. This had a great deal to do, I believe, with building the outrage that helped bring an end to that conflict. Contrast that to today’s blackout of even pictures of soldiers’ coffins arriving home. We must be kept unknowing and docile, truly sheeple.

    What really distresses me is that otherwise intelligent and reasonably aware people will not face this. I am tired of trying to get them to wake up and tired of being thought of as “out there.”. They smirk.
    The media and their handlers have done a fabulous job. This is another factor in the velocity of the stormy winds to come.

    5th November 2012 at 7:13 pm

  96. Kill Bill says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory#Prophet

    I didnt read this because I didnt read the book, RE, but this is what is being referred to.

    5th November 2012 at 7:29 pm

  97. Kill Bill says:

    Many of you are not old enough to remember TV news coverage during the Vietnam war -Gayle

    My teacher, I was in a Texas elementary school, rolled the TV into class and had us watch it. I was born in 1960.

    5th November 2012 at 7:31 pm

  98. Administrator says:

    Arius

    If the country re-elects Obama maybe some Prophet figure arises outside of politics and Washington DC to lead an opposition. Maybe Obama gets assassinated. Maybe a General attempts a coup. The actual events are unknowable, but it is certain that things will not improve over the next fifteen or so years.

    5th November 2012 at 7:31 pm

  99. Reverse Engineer says:

    “You need to read the book to understand the term Prophet. It is a generational term, not a term describing the positive aspects of Romney by comparing him to Moses or Abraham.”-Sensi

    I get the way the word is being used, I just think it is too loaded a word to use that way. Besides that, I don’t buy the whole concept of stereotyping people by their generation, anymore than I buy that your Astrological Sign and Time of your Birth determines your personality characteristics.

    It is no doubt a valid observation that we have been running in around 80 year cycles at least since the Enlightenment, but as I have noted before this coincides basically with the length of time a monetary system based on debt can last with an average interest (or inflation) rate of 2-3%.

    RE
    http://doomsteaddiner.org

    5th November 2012 at 7:51 pm

  100. Kill Bill says:

    Prophecies can become self-fulfilling……

    5th November 2012 at 7:57 pm

  101. R. Lewis Stumpf says:

    The fourth turnip will be naother profit year for the F.R. Boyz

    5th November 2012 at 9:11 pm

  102. Ricky Stump says:

    The profit for the next turnip will the trillions shifted from U.S> banks to our European fiends banks. Meanwhile lots of profits will be placed in secure gold vaults in China, Russia, and other F.R. vaults around the world. Of course a verticle trust conspiracy is beyond the mental capacity of administrators of this timeless world residing on a b.p. where simpering-simplistic wordscrabbles are cremated on a daily basis using hempweed!! for inspirational coughing, regurgitation cycles! Your sincere friend, Doc; trying to introduce meaning into your babbling life!!!!!!!!!!!

    5th November 2012 at 9:23 pm

  103. SAH says:

    @Muck – thanks and right back at you. I know you were in Hawaii during its heyday, maybe you have a keen eye and a soft spot in your heart for non-obese, non-tattooed, ukulele-playing Hapa Haole girls – all of which I do happen to be! I never take your compliments as sexist, I quite distain the feminists who have killed chivalry and the natural ability of a gentleman such as yourself to pay a gal an honest compliment. So thank you & Congrats to you and your lucky wife — I wish you many more happy years together. And while we do have this giant turd of Boomers separating our respectively tiny generations, I’m quite pleased to be currently raising 2 members of the next ‘Artist’ generation variously called the ‘New Silents’ or ‘Homelanders’. I will be a proud mom if they turn out even 1/2 as cool as your silent gen — old enough to remember the Crisis and therefore wish to prevent another one through compromise, caution and pragmatism; but young enough to really enjoy and appreciate the next High and to be the producers of the wonderful flourishing of arts, culture, commerce and institutions that will make the next High grand. Be well, Muck, we need you around for a good long time. :)

    Re: Reality’s rant – may have been one long paragraph but made perfect sense to me. He’s obviously making a nearly final, frenzied attempt to recount a lifetime of practical experience for posterity. More specifically, trying to talk some practical sense into the ‘Me Generation’ who has spent the past 40 years in self-obsession, destroying the hard earned inheritance handed them by their parents and then destroying everything and handing a shitpile to their kids. His simple insights would be lost on these BBs even with multiple paragraph breaks, and for anyone under age 45 – we feel your pain and disbelief. We’ve been wondering all our lives since childhood what is wrong with these SPOILED so-called adults, and would like society to simmer down from their cultural rampage of ‘consciousness revolution’, irresponsibility, and societal destruction. We’d also really like them to stop foisting debt and wars on us, and destroying the future for generations to come. But they won’t. So don’t sweat it, and keep the rants coming for the edification and entertainment Gex X and Millennials here.

    5th November 2012 at 9:26 pm

  104. Peak Everything says:

    The failure to factor in Peak Oil, water, uranium, and a whole slew of other resources – that will become increasingly more critical in the next 5-10 years – is a major omission from this otherwise decent article. I do believe resource scarcity will become the most important factor in how our elites make their decisions, and just believing in a Fourth Turning that is almost benign when compared to a potential societal die-off event based on scarcity, makes your predictions of the near future somewhat tame!

    5th November 2012 at 9:28 pm

  105. Lucille Rothstein says:

    “The Core” and 72 angels are dancing around us, there is no more time and we are facing the fire. It’s here and no one can see it only those who have eyes and they are have my arms tied to my chest, behind these walls we see everything and no one sees us. We speak and we are given more medicine. Our eyes see it and we know it and they continue to shut us up. The end is here for all of us no one can see it, but those with eyes. All of you will know the wrath, he hates you.

    5th November 2012 at 9:37 pm

  106. Makati1 says:

    Colma has a real psychological problem. Or is he jealous? ^_^ I guess he doesn’t like the influx of Chinese, South Koreans, etc. to the Philippines either. All are moving to the Philippines these days. China is buying up all of the Philippines it can, as are many other countries, the US included. I hope that the government here keeps the US from returning to it’s old bases so the Philippines are not a prime target for the Chinese missiles when they fly.

    As for being here if there is a world war; I’ll take my chances here and not have to worry about the hell that will be America when they realize that they cannot win and all of the support systems collapse. It appears that some Filipinos are not good at living with mixed cultures. Americans ARE a mixed culture and living with Asians, Africans, Europeans, Latins, etc is part of everyday life.

    The whole world is changing, but some places will bottom out at a better place than the US.

    5th November 2012 at 9:49 pm

  107. Omar says:

    Culture is manufactured and generations engineered.
    http://www.henrymakow.com/confirmedrockefeller_plan_to_g.html

    Rock ‘n roll / hippie “freedom” was an intel op to divide old and young generations. Family breakup is a PTB goal.

    The first rock bands were kids of military / intel people (Dave McGowan / Laurel Canyon essays; http://www.henrymakow.com/then_he_began_to_unfold.html ; http://www.henrymakow.com/000530.html ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk ). The Beatles were pub nothings before Tavistock / Adorno wrote their music and handled them in general (John Coleman, Coleman300.com; Alan Watt, ex-cover musician, CuttingThroughTheMatrix.com). Yoko Ono was John Lennon’s handler (BarryChamish.com). Watch Lennon’s video “Mind Games” to see him get his status as a tool, and try to tell us (Federal Reserve, Jesuits, the usual suspects). He ate lead for it.

    Strauss and Howe may know these things or just pen a theory; ignorance is best case. History is directed (TheDailyBell.com). Their book reads like “Tragedy and Hope” or “Drift and Mastery,” kiss-ups to medieval feudalism improved by modern science / agitprop, the CFR/RIIA end game.

    In medieval days, peasants needed a leige-lord’s writ just to grow certain vegetables. Aristocrats knew which foods gave health. They desired short, weak, illiterate peasants with enough physical/mental strength to work like other animals, but not rebel. Today’s overlords use chemtrails / GMOs / school-to-work / TV. Monsanto’s employee cafeteria is organic.

    5th November 2012 at 9:55 pm

  108. Ricky Stump says:

    Do not pick on my great grandpa, big Richard Stump. I am little richard, ricky for short rick! Only an anchovy would be picking big Richard as a target. Big R. is a veteran of WWII! Granpa is researching the meaning of meaning. He is trying to help the mentally disadvantaged polluting the internet with their asinine theories about generations being related to chaos theory and fractals. Your can’t, sanely mix math + ghosts. For example “time” is the ghost of movement”. A generation of flys can occur in a few days of Earth spin. The Earth goes in three spins for a fly “prophet” to pop up! Now why do so many people go bonkers about “turnings” related to human history while ignoring “fly History?”. Ill bet the chosen flys do the banking for the ” magnet baby flys They are the next “turning flys, you know! Little Doc

    5th November 2012 at 10:05 pm

  109. GJH says:

    Not true, TPC.

    Go to the Olympic Peninsula, to the old growth Hoh River rain forest, and then go check out some of the century old regrowth on clear cuts. Pretty, but not at all the same.

    How long does a Douglas fir live? 600-1000+ years? A live oak? No way you’re turning a clearcut or a suburb into true old growth in 300 years. Good luck re-creating an open parkland of old-growth ponderosa in slow-growing Montana in a few hundred years too.

    SSS – I agree with your questions about how Chris intends to stop all the different ‘environmental onslaughts’. But I do believe he’s right about the sixth extinction event. Just pan around the world on Google Earth. Only a few % of US land area (lower 48) hasn’t been turned to production for the human economy, rather than supporting natural ecosystems. There are other places more pristine, but the human impact on the world is huge. Most places that are relatively untouched are boreal or desert, mostly low-biodiversity systems.

    Your challenges are exactly the point: what do we do about our collision course with natural limits? My prediction: overshoot and dieback.

    Colma – Sounds like a personal issue.

    5th November 2012 at 10:09 pm

  110. Colma Rising says:

    No problems here, Bukaki1: I just think you’re a douchebag.

    Muck: I was going to give it a rest, as I value your advice, and here comes Bukaki1, bright and early with another foolhardy comment.

    Yet his comment says it all: A confirmation of delusional narcissism and utter ignorance.

    Perhaps you were busy getting a hand-job and slurping down a pungent plate of balut when you missed the part of the article indicating that there is nowhere and no way to lay low during a 4th Turning, Bukaki1.

    I almost feel sorry for you…. but not really. I do feel sorry for your children who have such an upstanding specimen of the quintissential low-tier Boomer Shitbag sweating it out like a coward in Manilla.

    At least Reverse Engineer, as fucking bonkers as he is, is smart enough to know that if you’re going to hit the road, go where the Zombies don’t go….

    Good luck.

    5th November 2012 at 10:24 pm

  111. Makati1 says:

    Collumm, as you actually know NOTHING about me, you assume a lot. There are many hundreds of thousands of Americans here that are enjoying the country and it’s people.

    Apparently you have only experiences with scumbag military types who used to infest many 3rd world countries and still do. Were you raped as a child? You obviously have a mind full of hate and anger to jump on someone who started out defending the Philippines. I still do. Difference is, I have chosen where to spend the last 20-30 years of my life and it is here, on a farm in the countryside with my friends and maybe some of my family.

    I wish you well, but you obviously need help.

    5th November 2012 at 10:37 pm

  112. Colma Rising says:

    Bukaki1: You’re snivelling now.

    You did not “Start out defending the Phillipines”…. you started out with some pompous and lead-brained comment assuming that the Administrator was selling books and deifying the Mitten.

    BTW: I love the Phillipines, or are you so full of yourself that you neglected to read that part of my commentary?

    I find it amusing that, without fail, when someone offers a no bullshit assesment of veiled attempts by scumbags to justify their putrification of values, the common retort is that it is “jealousy” or “a psychological issue” or, lol, “rape”.

    Get off the dirty train, dude. It’s a lot simpler than that:

    You’re being called out as a douchebag, nothing less, nothing more. You’re part of the “I hate America” club…. so be it. You’re just a failed hippy…. and really just a dirty old man… having another crack at life. Now that, I am quite certain of….

    Because most of those Americans on the island are expats who are those “scumbag military types” as you call them. Ouch, man. You’re telling a story and don’t even realize it.

    5th November 2012 at 11:03 pm

  113. Makati1 says:

    Colma, I’m telling it the way I see it and I am not a “Patriotic Zombie” as you appear to be. The US was sold out to the banksters many decades ago, but it is only becoming obvious now. Those same banksters gave the Philippines Marcos and debt.

    I used to be blind to reality as you appear to be. Then I got out into the real world outside North America and saw the propaganda spewing from the corporations that own America.

    I chose to live here because I choose to live here. No other reason. You read a lot into nothing.

    As for my family, they are still supportive of my choices. As for my income, you are only guessing there, and you are way off base. You read a few sentences and, through your filtered mind, see what you want to see. Sorry. End of discussion. you can have the parting shot as I know you need it to feel justified. ^_^

    5th November 2012 at 11:21 pm

  114. Kepi says:

    And these also stagger from wine and reel from beer: Priests and prophets stagger from beer and are befuddled with wine; they reel from beer, they stagger when seeing visions, they stumble when rendering decisions. All the tables are covered with vomit and there is not a spot without filth.

    Isaiah 18:7-8

    Don’t count on a prophet showing up to save us this time. The Boomers are a prophetic type, sure, but only in that they cannot stop their self-righteous preaching. They, in aggregate, are such failures to the archetype that they cannot effectively lead. Isaiah understood when he saw it, and nobody listened to him. Why? There were still prophets, don’t phrophets, first and foremost, discern truth?

    The prophets were all so gourged on good times that they couldn’t do their job properly. And as a result, Israel fell. It’s the same thing here. The world is about to fall. Europe will fall, China will fall, the US will fall and all for the same reason: population trends drive markets, if your population growth isn’t highly upwards, your economic growth can’t be. It’s why the Dark Ages started. Population growth stagnated. Just once, a population in an area in the world stagnated, and the entire Roman economy was so crushed, the Dark Ages began and human innovation stalled for nearly 1500 years. That was just population stagnation. By the 2070’s, we may have the first ever global population decline.

    The economy cannot keep expanding, we don’t have the demographics to support it. And that’s not intrinsically a bad thing in and of itself. However, trying to find a prophetic group of boomers in the mix of all the Good Times, Global Market Expansion failures? Good luck. The closest thing we have to a prophet is Nuriel Roubini, and no elected official will follow Dr. Doom. Why? Because all our leaders are elected and elected officials jobs are to support policies that make the greatest number of people happy. Note, that doesn’t mean supporting the policies that are right, it means supporting the ones that make people happy.

    That means that policies that pass debt down on later generations will win against making smart investments in your society. It means continuing growth mandatory policies when your economy can’t possibly continue to grow. It means a society in failure, that will fail for a long, long time because of a generation who’d rather throw a hissy fit over abortion laws and entitlement reforms that only affect 1-10% of the population at a time. A generation of loser culture warriors, deadbeat dads and soccer moms who rely on the rest of the world to sacrifice because they can neither fathom giving up their sacred cows nor their own comfort.

    And while you can find decent boomers out there individually, in aggregate they don’t make a difference, because what matters is the lowest common denominator, and the Lowest Common Denominator Boomer fails at anything other than repping for “Me, Me, Me” policies.

    So no, there will be no prophet for this seculum. Hopefully the next one will offer people made of sterner, more intellectually astute stuff.

    5th November 2012 at 11:46 pm

  115. Colma Rising says:

    Here, take some information with you, Bukaki1:

    With about 35 percent of its current 101,123 population being Filipino, Daly City is one of the largest cities in the county and has the highest concentration of Filipino and Filipino-Americans of any American midsized city in the United States, author Benito Vergara said.

    Vergara studied Daly City’s Filipino community for nearly four years before publishing “Pinoy Capital: the Filipino Nation in Daly City” in 2009.

    Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/bay-area/2011/03/after-100-years-daly-city-reflects-history-diversity#ixzz2BPiULBte

    Also, as for citizenship of my happy neighbors and friends:

    The U.S. Census Bureau reported that the 2007 American Community Survey, identified approximately 3.1 million persons as “Filipino alone or in any combination.” The census also found that about 80% of the Filipino-American community are United States citizens.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Filipino_Americans

    Here’s an article to remind folks that going overseas to live or work is…. well… an experience:

    http://mabuhaycity.com/forums/going-back-philippines/14919-american-living-philippines-real-truth-about-life-philippines.html

    So much for the “Ignorant” storyline.

    6th November 2012 at 12:01 am

  116. SSS says:

    “the fact that we have passed the 7 BILLION HUMANS level and another BILLION will be here in just a few short years and then another BILLION aftger that in eve shorter years (when this planet maybe could have put up with about 3.5 BILLION of responsible human beings), do none of you project that and see how things ahead can only be chaotic unless we all wake up and understand that unless we begin to work together, and fast, there are going to be no recoveries that you all are hoping for”
    —-Reality

    Look, Reality, you made a lot of good points in your comments, but I’m puzzled by your use of “we” in “unless we begin to work together” in the above quote. If you mean “we” as in the 7 billion people on the planet, it ain’t going to happen. Ever. If, however, you mean “we” as in the people of the U.S. and possibly Canada, then there’s an excellent fighting chance we’ll survive any planetary firestorm in the future.

    Look, I’m an ardent nationalist. We started this country with the best system of government ever devised in history. True, it’s all fucked up today, but that doesn’t mean we can’t reinvent our constitutional republic to its bedrock principles and stick to them. We can and probably will when TSHTF.

    Next, let’s look at the natural resource concerns voiced by several people above, particularly Christopher Harrison and most recently, GJH, who erroneously claims that “only a few % of US land area (lower 48) hasn’t been turned to production for the human economy, rather than supporting natural ecosystems.”

    Bull fucking shit, GJH. What fucking natural ecosystems aren’t we supporting which are truly critical to this nation’s survival? Name one in today’s political environment of the EcoTerrorists represented by the likes of the Sierra Club, the EPA, and the Department of Interior. Name just one.

    As for the “few %” of the Lower 48 that hasn’t been turned to production for the human economy, more bullshit from GJH. 90% of Nevada is federal property. In fact, a majority of the land in many western states is “owned” by the federal government. We don’t KNOW what’s on much of that land, and, even if we did, rest assured that GJH and his fellow travellers in Earth First will make sure we never get to the massive uranium deposits in the Canyonlands National Park or “near” (50 miles south) of the Grand Canyon.

    The greatest sources of fresh water and food on Earth are the U.S. and Canada, by a fucking country mile. Add to that the enormous carbon-based energy resources of these two countries, and “we” have the basics (food, energy, and water) to sustain our current version of modern civilization for a long, long time.

    Let’s dig deeper. Ingredients for inorganic and organic fertilizers? Covered. Green energy? Covered. Critical minerals such as rare earth, iron ore, aluminum, and copper? Covered. Lumber? Covered. Sophisticated transportation infrastructure? Covered. And so on.

    Here’s my bottom line. T4T will be bad, but it doesn’t need to be that bad for “us,” meaning North Americans in the U.S. and Canada. We have more than what it takes to muddle through. And I’d include Mexico if they ever decide to stop hating Americans, which they are taught to do from birth. Jesus, you lost the War of 1848. Get over it.

    6th November 2012 at 12:02 am

  117. Dark Angel says:

    Did strauss and how ever explain how , inspite of centuries of “turnings”. The vatican , the london banker swine and all their assorted child rapocrat friends remain unscathed ? Or is that way beyond their dogmatic simplistic pseudo intellectual wankery ?

    6th November 2012 at 12:16 am

  118. Anonymous says:

    SSS POTUS 2016

    6th November 2012 at 12:17 am

  119. JohnBoy says:

    Jim, Are you the same guy who used to publish the Burning Platform a couple of years ago? The blog I remember then was totally, shockingly irreverent to the point of being humorous and entertaining. The blog now is, well, scholarly, which I also very much appreciate. Why the dramatic change in style?

    6th November 2012 at 12:37 am

  120. Grifter says:

    Saw “Fourth Turning” in the summary on main page & knew it was Quinn. I’ve seen woodpeckers go to town on trees with less velocity & determination than Quinn does with his continual leg humping of this book.

    We get it. You love this goddamn book. NASA can see your shimmering boner from space every time you open the book or sniff the friggin binding.

    I recognize I’m not contributing anything to this discussion. I’ll go flog myself now.

    EDIT – I’ll try to contribute. Prepping is important; but being singularly obsessed with impending chaos and doom is unhealthy. Prep, but try to enjoy life when & where you can. Walk away from it for a bit. Go to a local watering hole & strike up a conversation with a stranger. Play with your kids/grandkids. Screw your spouse and/or mistress in new & exciting ways. But FFS, prepping doesn’t need to = zombie apocalypse obsession.

    Off to flog myself now…

    6th November 2012 at 12:52 am

  121. SSS says:

    “The (TBP) blog I remember then was totally, shockingly irreverent to the point of being humorous and entertaining. The blog now is, well, scholarly, which I also very much appreciate. Why the dramatic change in style?”
    —-JohnBoy @ Admin

    “Dick Stump ….. The drivel you just typed makes me understand why the country is in such peril. If gibberish was literature, you’d win a Nobel prize.”
    —-Admin @ Richard Stump in the thread above

    I’m just taking a wild-ass guess here, JohnBoy, but I think there’s been zero change in style here on TBP, and Admin hasn’t lost his ability for being irreverant, humorous, and entertaining. His only weakness is to submit to my insufferable, but irrefutable, wisdom.

    6th November 2012 at 1:04 am

  122. TJ says:

    I have read the Fourth Turning and think this article was well written and on point, I was browsing through the comments and could not help but laugh at some of them. The author was not trying to plug Romney as someone stated, you have to understand/read the book to realize that I guess. The Prophet always leads during the Fourth Turning and Obama was not born in the prophet generation, if Romney does not win that means that in 2016 the President will be someone from the Prophet generation. The cycles of history have proven time and again that this is the case, if you read the book you know that the authors go back throughout American history thru the 1400’s before the immigrants migrated here and this cycle always repeats itself. The cycle itself is not unique to Americans either, it was observed in all cultures both current and ancient. The book is powerful and changed my entire outlook on current events. Highly recommend the book to everyone.

    6th November 2012 at 1:34 am

  123. Kepi says:

    TJ, I should point out that the president isn’t necessarily the only position in society one could lead from. You could, for instance, see a group of the president’s cabinet essentially run the show, while the Gen X pragmatist keeps the choke chain on them. You could also see a scenario where the government fails to do anything, but a wealthy boomer decides he wants to leave a real legacy, and eschews the traditional corporate heirarchy with a new co-op style of management which changes the game entirely.

    Also, in the revolutionary war seculum, the only major prophet player was Franklin. Washington was a Nomad. The rest of them? Civics. And in that scenario, The prophetic types weren’t the major players, they just kinda spurred it on, and it was the nomads and really more the civics that ran the show.

    Now, do I think it’s likely we’ll see something like that this go round? Highly unlikely. The Boomers really fail to be prophets, Gen Xers lack the creativity to come up with new solutions and I really get the feeling they just don’t have the fortitude to make their own decisions and have those be the difficult decisions that need to be made, and Millennials are too well behaved to really be willing to break off and do their own things. Gen X can’t handle the bad publicity, the Millenials can’t even properly break up with someone for fear of the stigma of being the bad guy, and the Boomers can’t stop gorging themselves like locusts.

    6th November 2012 at 2:16 am

  124. Colma Rising says:

    TJ: A great many read the title and not the article….

    I think one of the short generation youtube videos or…. if Thinker gets around to it…. some sort of cliffnote 4th T might help…. Then again, I think the term “Prophet” sends people into kneejerk spasms.

    So it goes.

    6th November 2012 at 2:22 am

  125. Yojimbo says:

    Just voted for the write-in candidate – Ron Paul.

    6th November 2012 at 7:55 am

  126. Administrator says:

    Grifter

    Why don’t you regale us with your 9/11 conspiracy bullshit. I love those stories. Flogging your chicken seems to be your best talent.

    6th November 2012 at 9:19 am

  127. Administrator says:

    Looks like we’ve attracted nutjob conspiracy nitwits like Dark Angel to our site. This is what happens when you allow the dregs of Zero Hedge to enter.

    6th November 2012 at 9:21 am

  128. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @Admin – Who cares about that shit these days? Not when you have THE REPUBLICNS USING HAARP TO CTRL THE WEATHER AND SMASH NY AND COST DEAR LEADR VOTSE!!!!!!AAAWWWWWWMMMMMGGGGGGGG

    /aneurysm/

    6th November 2012 at 9:22 am

  129. Laptop Millionaire Blog » Blog Archive » Arnold Schwarzenegger’s ‘Total Recall’ (Do What’s Hard… And Life Becomes Easy) says:

    [...] Controversial book that predicted the financial crisis could now be predicting the next president “History does not repeat but it does rhyme…” http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=43039 [...]

    6th November 2012 at 9:40 am

  130. The challenge of our generation » Why Aren't You Outraged? says:

    [...] WILL A PROPHET ASSUME COMMAND? « The Burning Platform “The next Fourth Turning is due to begin shortly after the new millennium, midway through the Oh-Oh decade. Around the year 2005, a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. Remnants of the old social… [...]

    6th November 2012 at 10:44 am

  131. Rob in Nova Scotia says:

    Not much chance of a prophet assuming control today. Maybe in 2016 we will get what we deserve.

    6th November 2012 at 11:00 am

  132. Colma Rising says:

    PC/Admin:

    I peeked at zh….

    This article sailed right over their teeny heads.

    What can you do? The meat of the theory is all but proven in the commentary.

    Time to re-read some Vonnegut. I’ve been thinking that he wrote as one quite concious of the madness and silliness around him. Next stop: Sirens Of Titan.

    6th November 2012 at 11:15 am

  133. INTJ_4_? says:

    Is it that inconceivable that cycles are understood and predictable enough that entities could “front-run” a turning?

    6th November 2012 at 11:37 am

  134. Save_America1st says:

    Hi Jim…just wanted to say you knocked this one out of the park and I’m very glad you wrote about the Fourth Turning.

    I’m a few chapters into this book right now, so your timing couldn’t have been better for me. As you can imagine at this point in the book I’m pretty amazed by what I’m reading so far. It’s crazy these guys wrote this in 1997!

    But even though I haven’t finished the book yet, from what I’ve read so far I think you have applied your obviously very good understanding of it to your post perfectly.

    I already knew I was going to recommend this book to everyone I know, but along with my recommendation I’m definitely going to be emailing everyone your post today so that they can get a better idea of what I’ve been trying to tell them about for so long.

    Anyways…just wanted to leave a comment about it and say thanks and great job!
    I’m a reader that came over from Turd’s TFMetalsReport site long ago when you did one of his early podcasts. ZeroHedge (as you know I’m sure) posted this earlier and that’s how I originally spotted it this morning.

    But I have also posted it on Turd’s current blog post today so that everyone in Turdville would also get a chance to read it. Hope that’s cool w/ you.

    Here’s the link: http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/comment/232679#comment-232679

    Anyways…hope you and Turd do another podcast soon. Thanks again and take care.

    6th November 2012 at 12:25 pm

  135. Administrator says:

    Not too shabby response to this article:

    36,000 reads on ZH with 500 comments – about 5 comments actually related to the article

    29,300 visitors to TBP – just short of the Obesity article record

    Mac Slavo just posted it on the SHTFplan website.

    Charles Hugh Smith sent me an email saying how much he liked the article

    Even our good friend Mr. Kunstler sent me an email calling it a solid piece.

    6th November 2012 at 12:28 pm

  136. fwiw imho says:

    Be proud, it was a great piece.

    6th November 2012 at 1:56 pm

  137. Arius says:

    Arius, said “Mr. Quinn, if the country re-elects nomad Obama over the potential prophet Romney, doesn’t that mean the coming crisis will need to be much worse before the prophet appears on the scene?”

    Administrator, responded “If the country re-elects Obama maybe some Prophet figure arises outside of politics and Washington DC to lead an opposition. Maybe Obama gets assassinated. Maybe a General attempts a coup. The actual events are unknowable, but it is certain that things will not improve over the next fifteen or so years.”

    Mr Quinn, it makes sense to me that Nomad Obama cannot be the Prophet figure to come. He is a conflicted type that mirrors the current conflict and can only exacerbate the current conflict. He carries all the historical thinking at the foundation of the conflict. He cannot transcend it or lead beyond it.

    The Prophet type is not himself conflicted; he represents, or carries within himself the future beyond the current conflict.

    Therefore if Obama is re-elected the message sent is that the conflict will get much, much worse because it has to before it can be transcended by the Prophet.

    6th November 2012 at 2:09 pm

  138. Administrator says:

    Arius

    Now I’m really depressed. There is no scenario that I can make bleak enough that someone on TBP can’t make bleaker.

    6th November 2012 at 2:11 pm

  139. The Fourth Turning « Latest News « Paradigm Unhinged says:

    [...] http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=43039 [...]

    6th November 2012 at 2:48 pm

  140. GJH says:

    SSS – “What fucking natural ecosystems aren’t we supporting which are truly critical to this nation’s survival?”

    Since I can’t even tell what you’re saying here, and it doesn’t appear relevant to what I said, I won’t debate it. I’m just glad you got your daily dose of keyboard bluster in, right after your geritol.

    The issues I brought up were 2. 1) the ‘sixth global extinction even’, this one anthropogenic. 2) Are there natural limits?

    R.E. #1, I mentioned the US as an example, but the issue is a global one. Let’s speak a little more rigorously: “Nearly 40% of potential terrestrial net primary productivity is used directly, co-opted, or foregone because of human activities” (Vitousek, 1997). What has that figure grown to in the meantime? You think that might cause a few extinctions? Oh wait, Ehrlich was on the paper so maybe that disqualifies it for you. Our bang-up intelligence guy at work.

    #2, “GJH and his fellow travellers in Earth First will make sure we never get to the massive uranium deposits”. Interesting. Just last week I came out challenging someone to make the case for not extracting tar sands. I thought admin was kidding you about Alzheimers. Guess not.

    Since I agree with you that it’s not likely that fucking will stop, nor that resource exploitation will be curtailed or planned rationally (and I don’t trust any power that might try to plan it), then what is the basis of our disagreement on point #2? Appears you think any suggestion that there might be natural limits is idiocy. More dazzling intelligence from spook in residence.

    No doubt your moderate intelligence combined with ‘ardent nationalism’ made you useful to the CIA. They need guys working for them who don’t even realize they’re playing for the wrong team.

    6th November 2012 at 2:56 pm

  141. GJH says:

    SSS – While I’m at it

    I commented a while back that you tend to focus on the irrelevant. Two examples:

    1) Your point about $ vs EROEI was perfectly correct, but irrelevant. Of course a company talks in dollars. To say that oil will always cost enough to pull it out of the ground is a tautology. The relevant issue, however, is if oil will remain a viable source of *energy*. As EROEI decreases, oil will become increasingly expensive in $ terms, increasingly uneconomic to use as energy. Energy is its main use, and that will change our whole society.

    I concede new technologies like shale oil may change the current trend toward more expensive energy. Porter Stansberry thinks so. We’ll see.

    2) You came out swinging about your Che Guevara head pic, calling him a thug. Maybe he was, maybe not, I don’t know. I do know that it’s ironic for a former CIA guy to call out a major figure in the Cuban revolution for thuggery, given your former employer has done nothing but thuggery with regard to Cuba.

    There, that should be enough to inspire you for another day’s worth of bluster.

    6th November 2012 at 3:10 pm

  142. SAH says:

    @Kepi – I enjoyed your post. I disagree with your assessments of GenX and Millennials though. I

    First off, I think that as the BBs decline GenX will step up to fill the leadership void. Nomad Generations always do. Nomads get repressed and ignored in youth, but as TSHTF during their peak adult years, and the Propets above them go elderly/dying, Nomads step up with a no-nonsense, survivalist attitude to end the Crisis.

    Our role will not be in ‘creative solutions’ – you’re right that we don’t have those. We arent the ‘creative ones’ – Prophet generations have the creativity to dream of a million different ways to change the old order and destroy it. Prophets are the ‘creative changers’ that create a complex web of problems that choke the nation. We are a ‘reactive generation’ and behave more like a generational Occam’s Razor. We Nomads look at the complex web of bullshit that is choking everyone to death, and we react by slicing through it to simply stop the choking and survive. All our solutions and actions will be driven by a philosophy of pragmatism and ‘what works’, not any sort of creative utopia-dreaming bullshit of ‘what would be awesome’. And GenX is NOT afraid of ‘bad press’, we got labeled ‘bad, slacker, loser, etc’ before we got a chance to show the world anything. We have no reputation to maintain or protect, we were never the golden child like the prophets were as kids. We are the underdogs of history who step in and surprise everybody at the clutch moment. One thing delaying us from stepping up is GenX is so tiny – barely over 1/2 the size of the Prophets before us. So, they really clog the system with sheer numbers we can’t match at this point. In the near future, the Boomers will age out and we will have to step up and start Occam’s Razoring this complex cobweb of failure, throwing out everything that doesnt work. We’ll slice it up, and reduce it to something survivable.

    As for Millennials, they are mostly still kids. They are good kids too, and good kids try to obey. Right now, Boomers are in charge and Millennials are trying to comply – but they are getting fucked. They are a huge wave of youthful naivity and energy that has no obvious purpose right now. The only ‘big things’ Boomers are allowing them to do is go fight stupid wars in the Middle East or go to college, go into debt and end up unemployed. These Millennials are doing the only things they have as options, but they are a big (slightly bigger than Boomers gen), enthusiastic, energetic generation that needs an outlet for their energy and numbers. When this Crisis comes to a head, and GenX starts their pragmatic slash & burn of the bullshit, you will see Millennials roar out of the starting gates eagerly – they are just itching to have a constructive purpose, which Boomers have fail to give them. They’ll be the much needed manpower, numbers, and youthful vitality that middle aged GenX doesn’t have. And while GenX will focus on what is practical and survival, the Millennials will start dreaming of something better. A lot of slashing and burning and cleanup will have to be done first, before the way is cleared enough for the Millennials to be able to envision a new order – but eventually they will and they will work together to lay the foundation.

    6th November 2012 at 3:27 pm

  143. WILL A PROPHET ASSUME COMMAND? « says:

    [...] http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=43039 Rate this:Share this:More Pin ItShare on TumblrDiggEmailPrintLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. [...]

    6th November 2012 at 3:54 pm

  144. Covington says:

    Think the BRA is better than the Philipines. Take a look at Detroit. Heck even Mexico City looks good compared to the BRA.

    6th November 2012 at 4:30 pm

  145. Marvelous says:

    Flash –
    It looks like you have a challenge. You have mixed your religious views on what it means to be a Christian with politics by intimating that Mormon beliefs are cultish and Romney is just another member of that cult. Romney has his political faults for sure and yes he is wealthy and has never been concerned where his next meal was or is coming from. He belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Mormon is but a nickname For the book of Mormon Which he believes is another book of scripture Given to the inhabitants of North America, The Indians. Both the Bible and the book of Mormon teach that Jesus is the Christ our Savior. That he died on the cross for our sins, for every sin of every human being ever to live on this earth. As a private citizen, Romney has served other people for most of his life Both as a bishop (pastor) and as a leader over other Bishops in his church, without pay. He has led the biblical Christian life. Nothing cultish about that.
    When people get to know Romney beyond what the main stream media portrays, they see him as a moral, Christian man.
    I suggest you follow the decision of Billy Graham who heads one of the largest and respected Christian ministries world wide. They have recently removed the Mormon faith off their cult list.
    Anyone who studies the Book of Mormon and gets to know a faithful practicing Mormon (we are known as Saints – Latter Day Saints) and the their Christian beliefs and practices will decide as Billy Graham decided that their views were incorrect. As the bible says, By their fruits (how they live and treat others) ye shall know them.

    6th November 2012 at 4:43 pm

  146. Bullock says:

    Great article. Admin, you are one of my heroes, you woke up this white boy.

    6th November 2012 at 5:08 pm

  147. Kill Bill says:

    Marvy, much of what Joseph Smiths religion comes from is the Egyptian Book of The Dead, badly misinterpreted at that.

    As for the msm…I have no use of their views.

    6th November 2012 at 5:37 pm

  148. Kepi says:

    Admin, there’s also a couple points to consider, first being that the years may have been off a tad. The Crisis may very well have started in 2001/2002 with the 9/11 aftermath as there you have high national unity, high compliance and a boomer leadership. Strauss and Howe predicted a crisis between 2005 and 2015 if memory serves me right, and a deviance of 4 years couldn’t be entirely off, especially considering the amount of bleed the turnings and the generations themselves seem to have.

    Next point, we could still be in the unravelling. I mean, I doubt it, because it all looks so crisis oriented, but considering all that has been done to the US in the past 40 years by delaying adulthood with high rates of college participation, having a high cultural acceptance of both contreception and abortion and having a prophetic generation so large, it could do screwy things with the cycle just by messing with the proportions of each generation.

    Further on that, remember how the Civil War cycle just kinda skipped a step? That seems pretty aweful, but if it hadn’t, the US would have been late unravelling/early crisis to fight World War II. So things seem to line up for a reason.

    Next point, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Imperialist Japan, and Communist USSR all had the same cycle, but all our outcomes were pretty different. And Spain had the same and they were pretty much irrelevant. So was most of South America, or Mongolia or Southern Africa.

    Also, the prophetic change really doesn’t seem to be relevant as much at the beginning of the crisis as much as the beginning of the end. They’re not there to comfort us in the beginnings of the crisis, they’re there to help guide us out.

    Lastly, we could all be wrong. Obama could be the guy. The cycle doesn’t guarantee that it’s intellectually or philisophically correct, just that people adopt the narrative that it is. WWII didn’t resolve any of the underlying economic problems that created the great depression. But they beat the Nazis and that’s really all the time and energy they had for their crisis. But you don’t say that a whole lot, bbecause the generation that beats the Nazis gets a free pass. It’s a narrative issue, not an accurate one.

    6th November 2012 at 5:39 pm

  149. Kill Bill says:

    That he died on the cross for our sins -Marv

    Replace ‘for’ with ‘because’ and you will see things differently.

    6th November 2012 at 5:51 pm

  150. Michael says:

    I have read the book and while the theory is certainly interesting, it is not definitive. There is a fundamental flaw in the logic behind the idea of The Fourth Turning and that is that we are now at a time in history that is totally unique. The internet has already affected every aspect of human relations for most of the 6 billion people on this planet and it has done so in less than a generation. This new communication medium is a complete game changer. Why? Simply because in ages past generations tended not to communicate much with each other. In other words, one generation didn’t share much in common with the next. Different culture, different music, different slang, even different jobs. Now there is no such separation, at least in the united states. I see people of all ages with common interests and common ideals. I credit the internet for lowering these generational boundaries. Yes there are still differences between generations but those differences are quickly disappearing as time goes on.

    6th November 2012 at 6:11 pm

  151. Kepi says:

    Actually the generational divide would be the strongest in the last 80 years. Noninteractive mass media created the largest possible generational divide (and is still contributing to it as the majority of Boomers do not participate in the dominant cultural narratives of the Millennials (video games)). People in the 1770’s had a lot more in common with each other than now. They didn’t have their woodstock or their Lallapoolooza or their burning man. When top hats came in only the oldest and crustiest stuck with the tricorner. Now I’m the only one left with a top hat.

    The internet has done far more to expose and divide us by exposing us to a greater number of alternatives. You couldn’t keep an all punk rock format on any radio station, even in it’s hay day. Thanks to pandora, I can create different stations according to the subgenre and distinct style and I never have to hear anything else.

    If all I wanted to do for the rest of my life was look at pictures of ball bearings, I could. Before the internet, did you really know what a furry was? Now that you do will you take your kids to an amusement park? Exactly.

    6th November 2012 at 9:06 pm

  152. Skinny says:

    The dull thud you just heard was the coffin lid closing on what was the American Republican experiment. The last chance for capitalism ended tonight when over half the populace decided they would rather have their fortunes decided by others. Guess what, the others are giving up and you worthless slobs will soon be on your own. Welcome to the Soviet Union. Good luck with that.

    6th November 2012 at 9:21 pm

  153. Skinny says:

    Say Goodnight Gracie – We should hold the funeral at Brittingham’s

    6th November 2012 at 9:23 pm

  154. therooster says:

    The internet is like a new wineskin and digital gold (fully backed , weighted currency) is like new wine. We are now in the process of weaning out the structural “greed factor” at the apex that serves to give leverage to the wicked and the power trippers. Create a rounder world !

    Gold is money and now that its weight fluctuates and can trade in real-time, we are on the edge of a new real-time gold-as-money paradigm. Real-time valuations are key, which is why the FIXED peg ($35/oz) had to be severed as it was back in 1971.

    Instant global liquidity has now integrated with debt-free store of value …. a great wedding.

    6th November 2012 at 11:27 pm

  155. Thinker says:

    This Fourth Turning certainly just became more interesting. Each time, there is a bitterly-fought election and a divided nation. The outcome of the election is based on societal mood and propels the nation into its destiny — for better or worse. Although I think Obama’s message, “give me four more years to get it right” resonated better with people than his “forward” one, it definitely shows that we’re in transition to becoming a far different country than we’ve ever been.

    7th November 2012 at 1:38 am

  156. mike says:

    So, what now? With no Prophet elected, with regard to the 4th Turning, is it just continuation of a downward slide until a Prophet emerges thru the smoking ruins in 2016?

    I fear for our country. God be with us. Please.

    7th November 2012 at 2:01 am

  157. Colma Rising says:

    Thinker: That is very true. There is a tone in comments in other threads, and frankly it is a historical rhyme…

    One thing for certain is the transformation process. Was the country the same after every turning?

    No!

    Not at all!

    The direction is the same…. The world is smaller (inverse to the scope of each conflict by no coincidence). Globalization. It is no tin foil concept and is quite official in many unambiguous ways. Kepi had conclusions about the communications aspect, and I’m sure many 4th turning buffs cracked a smile and thought of steam ships, telegraphs and radio… all things that connect and transmute. There is more… so much more.

    It has taken on a tone, for certain, Mister Thinker. It’s not the first time business people felt villainized and unappreciated. It’s not the first time people were aghast at the election…. where the divide is like a crack between countrymen, zigzagging through an old edifice.

    Unfortunately, the fissure is but a small indication of a larger faultline spanning the proverbial globe…

    The show will go on, and it is high time to follow your gut feelings and rely on those never ceasing primal instincts…. athese are the times when the

    7th November 2012 at 2:06 am

  158. Colma Rising says:

    These are the times when they are of the greatest value…

    (Lol, that’s what the last sentence was supposed to read)

    7th November 2012 at 2:10 am

  159. Arius says:

    Mr Quinn, with the re-election of Obama we are entering the worst case scenario mentioned in my earlier postings.

    7th November 2012 at 2:29 am

  160. Reverse Engineer says:

    “Now I’m really depressed. There is no scenario that I can make bleak enough that someone on TBP can’t make bleaker”-JimQ

    This is the downside of being Doom Lite. Embrace the DOOM. If you go Full Doom you can only be depressed by Uber Doomers predicting an Extinction Level Event. :)

    RE

    7th November 2012 at 2:34 am

  161. crazyivan says:

    So RE,

    Are you suggesting that an Exctinction Level Event is unlikely?

    7th November 2012 at 2:55 am

  162. Reverse Engineer says:

    “Are you suggesting that an Exctinction Level Event is unlikely?”-CI

    Not at all. There is plenty of good evidence that we are on the road to an ELE. I publish Guy MacPherson on the Diner whenever he writes an Uber Doom article justifying this POV.

    Guy is very well versed in this stuff on the academic level, so it can be quite Depressing even for a Full Doomer like me to try to find some HOPE and then try to deconstruct his arguments.

    Nevertheless even if it IS an ELE, WTF wants to be the FIRST to buy their Ticket to the Great Beyond? You wanna Volunteer for that one? LOL.

    The steadily declining Ocean pH is the most powerful argument for an ELE. At the current very STEADY acidification rates, it is no more than 30-40 years before all shell based ocean life is insupportable. However, it is not until we get a crash of the Phytoplankton that we get a Permian style ELE, and there is not real good evidence on just how low pH has to GO here to crash the Phytoplankton. IMHO, even if the current rate of decline is continued, I don’t think it crashes for a century or so.

    In the meantime, I work on the assumption this is similar to a Toba Bottleneck event, and that a FEW can make it through the Zero Point.

    RE
    http://doomsteaddiner.org

    7th November 2012 at 5:52 am

  163. Administrator says:

    Answer:

    No. A Prophet will not assume command. Yet.

    7th November 2012 at 6:35 am

  164. Tom Usher says:

    This is clueless. It’s so slow. The generational stuff is pre-computer. Hello, you can’t possibly apply pre-computer, you can’t possibly apply pre-geometric progression change to the future now.

    Also, this article is macro-economically devoid.

    There won’t be any rhythmic history. What’s happening is a quantum leap.

    Gee, this article is about being stuck repeating the same old, same old.

    Why don’t you wake up and realize that the voluntary giving and sharing all economy is the one and only future that will last all the way to Heaven?

    You’re preaching worldly bull.

    You have it all wrong. You’re into capitalism. Capitalism is dung. It always has been. That’s why even leaning toward it has caused the current nightmare.

    If you think that turning to some Hayekian vision of no government will cut it, you’re living in your imagination that will not come true.

    Let me let you in on an open secret. Gold won’t do anything for those who kiss up to Mammon other then assuring their place in Hell.

    Your selfishness, your self-centeredness, will kill you! The sooner you stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about others, the sooner we’ll all be living in the New Earth. If you can’t accept it, if you cling to your self-centered ways, you’ll not be there.

    7th November 2012 at 8:07 am

  165. Administrator says:

    Oh boy. Tom Usher arrives on the scene to spout gibberish about new paradigms and a technological revolution. Hysterical.

    Tom Bought Pets.com in 2000.

    Tom bought three houses in 2005 with plans to flip them and make a fortune.

    I love when my articles bring out the nutjobs.

    Thanks for giving me a good laugh Tommy Boy.

    7th November 2012 at 8:12 am

  166. Administrator says:

    Hey Tommy Boy

    Tell us all about your real liberal christian church. We love religious nutjobs on TBP.

    7th November 2012 at 8:14 am

  167. Eddie says:

    No prophet. Just more profiteering.

    Feeling mean and hung over this morning. Four more years of socialists at the wheel. Trying to figure out the best plan for that brand of collapse/decline.

    I was bound to feel like shit today, knowing that one of two bad choices was as good as it was gonna get. Give me some Advil and coffee and I’ll get on with it.

    Admin, how about an open post for predictions?

    7th November 2012 at 8:37 am

  168. therooster says:

    GOOD NEWS. Get off the notion that the USD is a currency and you will all be fine. That is not to say that the dollar is not a currency but recognize when and where it acts as a currency. It only acts as a currency within the debt-money paradigm, a stop gap measure on route to a real-time (floating) gold-as-money paradigm (market driven) where the dollar acts as a real-time measure and a servant to gold money and to economic activity. This has been destined to be its greatest goal all along , given the time to enter the “fullness” of the information age.

    If you reverse engineer real-time gold-as-money, you will see the FED’s footprints all over it and Bretton Woods will make much more sense to you. Keep in mind that the dollar’s role as a real-time measure for commodities can be considered to be intellectual property and an international gateway for global payments made in gold/silver based digital currencies (fully backed by weight).

    Something must act as a bridge of transition from the debt based currency paradigm to the real-time gold-as-money paradigm. That something is the real-time measure of “USD/oz” as a tool. This tool had to be developed over time. That included centralization of the dollar and then severance of the $35/oz fixed peg to set gold free.

    You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins.

    The prophet is in the wilderness. The stimulus to bring about a real-time gold-as-money practice is up to the people, the grass roots of society within an organic market. The elite cannot do this for fear of a sudden dollar crash. Rate of change must be governed by the market and cannot be by fiat. The elite are now relegated to the “carrying of the stick” as a “necessary evil” within “the script”. Follow the script. Do not look for a top-down solution. It’s not their role now, but ours.

    7th November 2012 at 8:47 am

  169. Thinker says:

    Colma, exactly right. It’s beginning to take more shape, now.

    And yes, I do chuckle when I read, “this time is different because of technology!”

    7th November 2012 at 10:07 am

  170. Wilson says:

    Very sad to see all the ‘other’ voters or NON-voters. Sure you make a statement – mostly to yourself – but you have helped re-elect Obama. And YES there is a difference between him and Romney! Sad that you must think of yourself more than what may be the good of the country. Our biggest fight for the future will be to make certain we get a couple of reasonable, smart Supreme Court justices chosen. Without that, our future is becoming even more dangerous. it’s now possible that Obama could select as many as 3 Supremes!! That should be decades of potentially disaterous social and political upheaval.

    Stupid actions for stupid reasons.

    7th November 2012 at 10:35 am

  171. Administrator says:

    Wilson

    Are you the soccer ball that Tom Hanks talked to?

    How is Justice Roberts working out for you?

    Do you believe corporations are people?

    Stupid is as stupid does. Thanks for playing.

    7th November 2012 at 10:42 am

  172. Administrator says:

    Thinker

    The clueless morons who have no sense of history are hysterical.

    Do you think the steam engine, cotton gin, telegraph, railroads, repeating arms, and hundreds of other inventions between the American Revolution and the Civil War stopped the next Crisis?

    Do you think the discovery of oil in 1859, the industrial revolution, airplanes, automobiles, electricity, telephones, and even better arms between the Civil War and the Depression stopped the next Crisis?

    Do you think the invention of the TV, computer, malls, financial derivatives, iPods, and the internet since WWII will stop the next Crisis?

    The inability for people to think critically in this country is mind boggling.

    7th November 2012 at 10:52 am

  173. FT says:

    “is it just continuation of a downward slide until a Prophet emerges thru the smoking ruins in 2016?”

    Hey, there’s a thought, maybe Gary Johnson (born 1953) could be the emerging Prophet then, after both Republocrat parties are completely discredited.

    Wishful thinking, I know.

    7th November 2012 at 10:55 am

  174. Arius says:

    SAH: You are right. Baby Boomers are responsible for the fatal destruction of Western civilization. And I say this as a Baby Boomer. All of our friends are Baby Boomers that blame every problem on someone else, usually by demonizing the political party they hate, like they think hate and sound bites is thinking. Compared to our parents that suffered through the Depression we are sorely lacking, and we thought we fix anything, and look how it is ending. We are entering the Fourth Turning (I maintain that it started with the 911 attacks) and even with the thunderbolts of criticism that I can hurl at Baby Boomers, from within it will eventually emerge the Fourth Turning Prophet. But that is in the future, the country just re-elected Obama that cannot take us beyond the current conflict (see my other comments). We are headed straight into a debt super cycle collapse. We need to prepare to survive and protect ourselves and family. The course is set, in the hands of fate.

    7th November 2012 at 11:18 am

  175. Jim says:

    Sober stuff after last nights lottery of the nations goods….but a necessary slap of a cold towel…thanks for the history lesson on cycles…Time to do the hard part, breaking away from the comfort zone and even harder is convincing the maternal part of the family that a hard wind is gonna blow….

    7th November 2012 at 1:04 pm

  176. Administrator says:

    Jim

    Welcome to TBP, where reality is guaranteed to depress you.

    7th November 2012 at 1:16 pm

  177. Big Mike says:

    Great article. I agree that my generation (BB) holds the majority of the responsibility (born 1950). I grew up when the big “cultural divide” started, and as one here said, the people around me started tearing down the traditional trappings. I did participate in some of the “activities”, but to a minor extent. I was never a leftie, even though it was so cool and hip to be one. I had long hair, played in a pysch band, but still believed in getting married, staying that way, working hard, etc. As I had kids, I tried to raise them in the way I was raised for the most part, as far as values, and was increasingly looked at as some kind of odd ball. I would not let my kids watch R movies at 10 and 12, etc. I never thought I would be such a minority. We have been together, married, for 40 years and still get along great. People actually don’t like us because of that. I saw this spoiled, self serving, corrupt, end coming. Everyone went from hippies to Gordon Geckko. I now look around and am pissed off that I am going to get fucked when I did my part and kept my end up.
    To those that think having your shit together and being self sustaining, you better be on the top of a very steep mountain with only a rope ladder to get up there, or about a million rounds of 5.56 or 7.62. You are going to get run over by the very hippies that were so loving, so long ago. Just look at all the tolerance the left has today. Tolerance of you thinking like them, and them taking all you got. As I guy I used to work with used to say, The innocent must suffer with the guilty. Unless you can breathe underwater, you don’t have a chance when the USS USA goes down.

    7th November 2012 at 1:54 pm

  178. Micro-Be says:

    RE-

    Scary stuff man. It’s safe to say, IMO, that EVEs are normal. An increase in ocean acidity will kill lots, but not everything. Single celled organisms are extremely good at adapting to things like pH. It’s like the problem with pesticides and antibiotics; you’ll kill most but invariably organisms adapt and return to “carrying capacity” population levels. Honestly though, the population has grown under artificial means, something is going to correct it. That’s my opinion at least.

    And to whatever guy posted that altruistic rant: are you in an internet cafe with a 10 year old computer wearing a burlap sack for clothing with plastic bottle flipflops? If not, well, perhaps you should get to selling your stuff and start thinking about others. Capitalism (we aren’t and haven’t been a capitalist country for decades) made it possible for poor people to have dvd players and modern housing (you probably think they have a right to more). Before then, it was mud huts and stanky bush.

    7th November 2012 at 5:07 pm

  179. soul_searcher says:

    Massive leverage has brought us to this place. The Fed, working with the Treasury and Congress, has chosen to use increasing inflation (in the form of massive deficit government spending) to lower our standard of living to a more reasonable level. Holding interest rates down helps ease the immediate pain, but commodity prices will continue to rise faster than real wages. It’s really as simple as that. Deficit spending is a way to spread taxation evenly without having to ask for permission. It’s regressive, but it works. We all just have to accept the fact that credit bubbles eventually burst.

    7th November 2012 at 5:14 pm

  180. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @Jim

    “Time to do the hard part, breaking away from the comfort zone and even harder is convincing the maternal part of the family that a hard wind is gonna blow….”

    I’m running into a similar issue on the homefront. I’ve found educating (without sounding preachy) is the key. Now when I talk about getting enough land to have a decent farm on it, she doesn’t flinch. When I mention staying away from high population zones, she agrees.

    7th November 2012 at 5:19 pm

  181. Kepi says:

    @SAH, sorry I missed your comment earlier.

    I’ll agree with you that strip, slash, and burn should be the Gen X MO, and fits with them as a Nomadic archtype. However, I’m surprised that you don’t see it as creativity and an artform. When I think of Gen X artists, I think of the punk rock groups I grew up on who responded to arena rock with the simple question of “Why play 12 chords when you can just play 3?” Or the Grunge era groups who used a moment of silence to counter balance their stark, stripped sound to make a point of emphasis, or hell, even my step-brother’s drag car (“Well, my idea was to take everything in there that didn’t absolutely need to be in there out. So it’s kinda like a muscle car with a lighter, newer frame and body, which means I’ve lightened it so my small block can take most of those big blocks on”).

    Now, that’s what the MO should be, and sometimes it is. But all too often most of the Gen Xers I know don’t operate on that. They’re like Mark Danielwinski writing House of Leaves, Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails, or Radio Head playing Kid A. Tenacious, meticulous, and unneccessarily complex making high concept points and forgoing what should be the standard MO of slash, strip, and burn.

    That’s not saying that they’re bad people or that they do bad work or that it’s their fault. I love House of Leaves, crime started to plummet as Gen X came of age (implying that high criminality is the trait of boomers on average, as they’d be aging out of it at the time), and they were severely over eclipsed by the sheer amount of boomers. That is to say, however, that I just don’t think they can get the job done. The demographics stacked against them and it warped them from what they’re supposed to be and I just doubt enough of them can heed the call of the crisis era.

    And the Millennials are supposed to be good, no doubt, but they’re also supposed to be builders and when it comes to revolting, they’re supposed to heed the call. Here’s where I’ll call out Occupy again, a largely Millennial movement. Their idea of sticking it to the man is camping out (often while maintaining a day job) and trying to “raise awaremess” and to “raise the consciousness” of their opponents, the bad guys. They’re not acting like dragon slaying heroes or even rank and file troops. They’re just acting like fodder.

    Again, not their fault, there’s just no way for them to simultaneously do what needs to be done and avoid stigma and labelling from the never satisfied boomers whose ideals all too frequently have nothing to do with reality. I mean, the occupy movement itself suffers tremendous stigma already, and all they’re doing is taking an extended camping trip.

    As a guy whose cusp X/Millennial, I really don’t see how either generation is going to make it, and mostly because they refuse to stand up to the boomers and put them in their place. They cowtow to them and let them be boss without ever once letting them hear about their failures or moving them out of the way to make room for folks who can get the job done. On a societal level, it’s the equivalent of impacted bowels.

    7th November 2012 at 7:01 pm

  182. Reverse Engineer says:

    A Prophet will Assume the Position:

    kevinbacon_animalhouse.jpeg

    RE
    http://doomsteaddiner.org

    7th November 2012 at 7:15 pm

  183. soul_searcher says:

    I’ve accepted the way things are going forward: Those who “get in” on the money printing gravy train will be just fine. That’s my plan on a small scale, and that’s what the 1% is doing on a massive scale. They are spending billions in an attempt to funnel even more of the people’s money into their various stash locations. A careful study of Romney’s tax plan lines-up perfectly with that. The 1% lost big last night, but they only have to win a few times to really f*ck the masses over. I’m preparing to live in a nation where corporations continue to receive welfare on grand scale that increases to the point where something gives. At that point the average Joe just might be willing to risk everything (not much by then) to string the bastards up.

    7th November 2012 at 10:00 pm

  184. therooster says:

    soul_searcher …. do you not realize that debt-free store of value can now be made instantly liquid ?
    Said another way, inflation-proof money with asset based value which is intrinsic to real economic activity can now be made highly liquid in a debt-free context. This had never occurred before the mid 1990’s.

    7th November 2012 at 11:42 pm

  185. themanfromporlock says:

    That’s a good article, thanks very much.
    Strauss and Howe state the pretty obvious well, but prophesising a Prophet using prophetic prose is a bit too much prophesy really.
    In longer term history, history does indeed repeat itself but the pace of change in the world environment skyrocketed with the arrival of the USA. A 200 year long ELE?

    8th November 2012 at 6:39 pm

  186. Matt says:

    A Nomad. Fuck. :(

    8th November 2012 at 8:02 pm

  187. Kepi says:

    Actually, I’ve been thinking about the implications of a nomad leader and what it means, here is my conclusion:

    Human beings are story telling creatures. In our post modern culture, we’ve been told that it is facts that matter, and that all stories are intrinsically false. This is the result of years of post modern philosophy’s influence on our society. Even though most people never get the education, post modern philosophy has directed all our cultural narratives by shooting holes in them, and changing their courses, meanwhile constructing other twisted internal narratives within them (3rd wave feminism and conspiracy theory anti-government/illuminatiesque being examples from the left and right respectively).

    Now, Nomads are the only archtype who are skeptical of narratives as a rule. That’s why they’re skeptic/survivalists without lofty goals or ideals. The choice of a Nomad leader is indicative of either a rejection of all naratives (an impossibility) or an indication that people don’t believe in the dominant narratives as presented by any side (meaning the democrats and the republicans baseline narratives, among all other dominant narratives ring untrue for most people).

    Now, narratives are important because they tell us where we’ve been and where we’re going. If you don’t have one, a Nomad leader makes sense, as it doesn’t matter what you’re doing, you don’t have a direction and the only thing matters is keeping your boat alfoat. That’s where most Americans are at. Liberalism and Conservativism have both been declared intellectual failures by most thinkers throughout the last 70, but especially within the last 10, years. Democrats were declared dead in the post 9/11 world, and Obama’s presidential nomination can be seen as firther evidence of that (as everyone thought it would be Hillary, but the truth is most people don’t trust her), and the Republicans were declared dead in 2008, the tea party’s rise and subsequent fall showing that.

    Both parties are dead in terms of Americans trusting their narratives. Obama is there because he offers vague plattitudes instead of ideals (hope, change, 4 more years to get our drivers lisence) as a place holder, to ensure that the boat stays afloat while America finds a narrative that fits her. And that’s what we’ll be doing for 4 more years. We’ll be groping for a story we can tell that works for the majority of people, represents a direction they want to go in. As most of the time, the prophet isn’t necessary until the last phase of the game (last 5-6 years), this will hopefully serve the purpose of just keeping that boat floating.

    8th November 2012 at 9:23 pm

  188. Reverse Engineer says:

    “RE-

    Scary stuff man. It’s safe to say, IMO, that EVEs are normal. An increase in ocean acidity will kill lots, but not everything. Single celled organisms are extremely good at adapting to things like pH. It’s like the problem with pesticides and antibiotics; you’ll kill most but invariably organisms adapt and return to “carrying capacity” population levels. Honestly though, the population has grown under artificial means, something is going to correct it. That’s my opinion at least. ”

    Indeed, single cell organisms can adapt somewhat to changing acidity levels, which is why I don’t think the phytoplankton collapse as fast as shell based sea life like the Coral Reefs.

    However, even that adaptation has basic chemical limitations. The whole electron transport chain series which moves the energy into ATP won’t function below a minimum pH, proteins get denatured, the whole ball of wax as far as living organisms are concerned there. Below 7, we are most certainly fooked.

    The Earth has undergone a couple of Mass Extinctions, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest another one is underway right now, and may in fact be unstoppable at this point no matter what is done to try to mitigate the problem. Uber-Doomer Guy McPherson makes a pretty solid case for this, and it takes a whole lot of work to deconstruct his arguments and leave room for SOME hope here.

    Even if it is unstoppable though, unless you have a Species wide Suicide Wish, it only makes sense to stop doing more stuff to contribute to already overwhelming problems, which can only hurry things along.

    Aloha_ocean_pH_calculated_by_HOT.jpg

    RE
    http://doomsteaddiner.org

    9th November 2012 at 2:37 am

  189. Thinker says:

    Those of you who know generational theory will find this one interesting:

    Thank You for Your Service

    9th November 2012 at 12:04 pm

  190. tayronachan says:

    Well that scared the heck out’a me. Going to go buy more canned/dry goods. Also going to print out this article. peace

    9th November 2012 at 12:13 pm

  191. ThePessimisticChemist says:

    @RE – However, even that adaptation has basic chemical limitations. The whole electron transport chain series which moves the energy into ATP won’t function below a minimum pH, proteins get denatured, the whole ball of wax as far as living organisms are concerned there. Below 7, we are most certainly fooked.
    ==================

    While I do not disagree with your assertion that increasing ocean acidity is a problem, I do disagree with your Doom Levels for this.

    A lot of cellular life exists at pH units MUCH LOWER than 7. In order to get to the point where you are hydrolyzing proteins you will need to be at…..2? 3? 4-6 is still a safe zone for a lot of microflora, and at a pH of 8 we still have a long way to go before we reach your doom levels.

    The oceans will be completely fished out and full of chemicals long before then imo.

    9th November 2012 at 12:18 pm

  192. GMan says:

    Now that the election results are in……….the answer is No. A prophet will not assume command.

    Doesn’t matter though, policies under either Obama or Romney won’ make a damn bit of difference.

    9th November 2012 at 1:08 pm

  193. SAH says:

    Hi Kepi – I’m a 1977 Xer, and feel like I’m on the ‘cusp’ between X and the Millennials as well. So, howdy, Bro, nice to have you here.

    Re: a Prophet Gen (Boomer) leader… I don’t see the Prophet Gen leader that arises during a Crisis as any sort of savior who leads us out of the Crisis at all. The Prophet leader ensures and exacerbates the fucking Crisis that his generation has been creating for their whole lives. They hold the course and ram us right into the brick wall of destruction, with complete confidence and supposed ‘moral authority’ when they should be weeping and gnashing their fucking teeth in repentance. Let’s look at the 2 previous Great Prophet Leaders, both of whom made sure that the Crisis got as shitty as possible.

    First, let’s examine FDR (a real favorite of mine – I seem to naturally hate the prophets of every Saeculum). His economic policies made the Great Depression WORSE and kept it dragging on longer. He made sure that things got as shitty as possible, while having his goddamn ‘fireside chats’ with America and spewing false hope and bald faced lies. The country DID NOT want to enter WWII, but FDR (the fucking crippled traitor) made back-room deals with Winston Churchill promising to get us into the War. The fucking crippled traitor had advanced knowledge of Pearl Harbor and let it happen, knowing that America would NOT be able to stay out of WWII. Still that crippled fucker was elected 4 times, and if he hadn’t THANKFULLY croaked, the crippled asshole would have probably made himself a dictator. We are STILL stuck with the idiotic and destructive ‘New Deal’ bullshit this Prophet asshole ushered in, and it’s still destroying our country. And to make it even worse, Prophets are so good at being self-righteous and self-promoting, that even when they are a crippled traitor with disastrous policies they come out being remembered by the stupid sheeple as ‘Great Leaders’. Bullshit. They are destroyers.

    Truman and Ike were a Nomads. America made more pragmatic decisions and toned it down in the late 40s-50s, and did a hell of a lot better under the Nomads, and we finally saw the Crisis which that crippled Prophet fuck FDR turned into a shitstorm draw to a close and cleanup and flourishing began. UNDER NOMADS. The ‘Prophet Leader’ just makes the Crisis worse.

    Now let’s move on to that overrated Prophet asshole Abraham Lincoln. Oh, revisionist historians paint him as some great abolitionist emancipation proclamation hero. Bullshit. That fucker 1. Did not want to free the slaves 2. Absolutely ENSURED that there would be no compromise 3. Caused the fucking Civil War 4. His main objective was to fundamentally transform America from a union of States into a massive, all-powerful FEDERAL GOVERNMENT which can fucking rule over you and kill you if you don’t like it. Lincoln destroyed the America framed by our Founding Father and gave rise to the same Federal Supremacy which is destroying us today. The Emanicpation Proclaimation was some last minute political pandering because the War wasn’t going good, Lincoln didn’t give a shit about black people – Lincoln only cared about imposing the Federal Government as supreme. Lincoln was a fucking destroyer who ensured that any State that wouldn’t bow to the Feds as supreme was destroyed and burnt to the ground, and that fully 1/3 of the young Nomad/Hero under his Prophet Generation were slaughtered by their fellow Americans. Again, the great ‘Prophet leader’ DOES NOT END THE CRISIS. They make sure to take the Worst actions to make sure that the Crisis gets as horrible as possible and kills as many people as possible.

    Ulysses S Grant was a Nomad, and literally brought the Civil War Crisis to a close, both by winning the fucking war and being President during Reconstruction. Lincoln was a fuck, as all great ‘Prophet Leaders’ are during the crisis, but once again the Prophet talent for self-righteous self-promotion ensure that LINCOLN (father of the federal government monstrosity we have today) is remembered as some great guy when he was actually a destructive fuck.

    Final thing I’m going to say is that Obama is part of the Prophet Generation of Boomers. I mostly agree with S&H, but their arbitrary Boomer cutoff of 1961 – with Obama born in 1961 – is arbitrary. The standard timing accepted by everyone else is that the BB ends in 1964. Obama is in the ‘Consciousness Revolution’ so deep it’s sickening. He ran on the platform “Hope And Change” – that is a Prophet Gen bunch of utopia bullshit. A genXer would NEVER run on that shit Are you kidding? He is decisively making everything worse through bold action, NOT pragmatism – he is tanking the economy, probably will get us into WWIII, and will never back down from his crazy agenda or compromise even though it’s going to destroy America. Why? Because Obama is on some crazy Boomer ‘moral crusade’ in typical Prophet Style. The election choice we had was between Romney and Obama – ALL OF YOU have acknowledged that the results would be the same. War, debt, cronyism, destruction, death. Romney and Obama were like bookends of the BabyBoomer prophets – we picked the young end to make this Crisis worse. Looking for your Prophet Crisis leader? POTUS #44 – Barack Obama, he’s going to take all our asses straight into the fire of hell. Looking for who will actually lead us out of the Crisis? Maybe a Nomad from the Ron Paul Revolution? Whoever they are, they aren’t likely on the radar yet and they SURE AS HELL WILL NOT BE A BOOMER.

    9th November 2012 at 1:34 pm

  194. Stucky says:

    +100 to SAH’s rant.

    Regarding Lincoln’s war …. EVERY historian of any repute will tell you that slavery would have ended WITHOUT a civil war.

    9th November 2012 at 1:48 pm

  195. Reverse Engineer says:

    “A lot of cellular life exists at pH units MUCH LOWER than 7. In order to get to the point where you are hydrolyzing proteins you will need to be at…..2? 3? 4-6 is still a safe zone for a lot of microflora, and at a pH of 8 we still have a long way to go before we reach your doom levels.

    The oceans will be completely fished out and full of chemicals long before then imo.”-PC

    True enough, however a recent study in Nature indicated a 40% decrease in Ocean Phytoplankton since 1950:

    “A 2010 study published in Nature reported that marine phytoplankton have declined substantially in the world’s oceans over the past century. Phytoplankton concentrations in surface waters were estimated to have decreased by about 40% since 1950 alone, at a rate of around 1% per year, possibly in response to ocean warming.[14][15] The study generated debate among scientists and led to several communications and criticisms, also published in Nature.[16][17][18][19] That study has not been substantiated so far.”

    Also, there has been a steady decline in free Oxygen percentage in the atmosphere over the same time period:

    ljo_o2_plot.gif

    This is a very small change incrementally, but the direction isn’t too good either. This without hitting any kind of “Tipping Point” as of yet that would crash a large percentage all at once.

    RE
    http://doomsteaddiner.org

    9th November 2012 at 8:08 pm

  196. Novista says:

    Thinker

    Thanks for that link!

    SAH

    A fine rant and wholly accurate.

    9th November 2012 at 9:43 pm

  197. SSS says:

    “Not too shabby response to this article: 36,000 reads on ZH with 500 comments – about 5 comments actually related to the article.”
    —-Admin

    Well, this is comment #200 to the article here on TBP, days after ZH (Zero Hedge) hit 500. So I win again. Lord, this gets so old. No wait, I love to win.

    Good to know that Admin is hitting a wider and wider audience, and he is even reaching more and more people here on TBP. I think it’s due to newsjunkie’s pics on cats.

    Shout out to GJH. I just read your responses to my comments. Get back to you soon. Stay tuned.

    10th November 2012 at 2:28 am

  198. Thinker says:

    If you haven’t seen it yet, Neil Howe’s recap: In the Aftermath of ‘12

    10th November 2012 at 2:14 pm

  199. Eddie says:

    Interesting…thanks for the link. The youth vote made the difference. That’s seems to be the takeaway here.

    Based on what I kept hearing from my own Millenial contacts, it wasn’t Romney’s Mormonism they hated…it was that they identified him strongly (and correctly) with the Wall Street banking elites and as a 1% er. And that they perceived him as an opportunist who was willing to flip flop on any issue to improve his polls.

    10th November 2012 at 2:26 pm

  200. Eddie says:

    Neil Howe suggests a GenX Republican candidate going forward.

    I suggest Colin Powell dressed up in a James Earle Jones suit. Or maybe the two of them (Jones and Powell) on the ticket together. Darth Vader and a real general who is about as Republican as Ike was.

    If Obama steps into the deep shit of an economic crash landing, either of those gentlemen of color could become your Prophet.

    10th November 2012 at 2:48 pm

  201. davboz says:

    Enlightening and educational. Just one thing: Please don’t tarnish the name, and definition, of Capitalism. As you’ve also said clearly, it is CRONY-capitalism. It is Corporatism. Complete distortions of what the term implies yet New Democrats, Socialists, Our New American Communists, the Progressives, whatever, all want to claim we are where we are due to Capitalism.
    Maybe, after the deluge, we might try actual Capitalism ~ complete with a moral integrity, allowing honest risk/reward, resulting in the strengthening of character of every individual just by participating in daily commerce.

    10th November 2012 at 7:42 pm

  202. Kill Bill says:

    The inability for people to think critically in this country is mind boggling. -admin

    It has been so before Plato wrote his Allegory of the Cave.

    10th November 2012 at 9:22 pm

  203. SSS says:

    SSS – “What fucking natural ecosystems aren’t we supporting which are truly critical to this nation’s survival?”

    Since I can’t even tell what you’re saying here, and it doesn’t appear relevant to what I said, I won’t debate it.
    —-GJH

    YOU talked about the U.S. not supporting natural ecosystems, not me. So, I’m asking you. What aren’t we supporting? The Chesapeake Bay? The Great Lakes? Lake Tahoe? The famous Cuyahoaga River running through Cleveland? What fucking natural ecosystem is this country destroying or “not supporting?”

    Is that clear enough for you, GJH? Or do I need to send you a walker to get through the maze? Do you want to debate it now, dickweed?

    11th November 2012 at 1:31 am

  204. Hucklebuck says:

    I don’t think I’ve been to any other site which hides comments simply for being unpopular. While any given commenter may be considered an idiot, including this one, no one’s interest is served by censorship. Particularly censorship by the mob.

    I look forward to “dislikes”, a juvenile term in itself, and, eventually, “hiding”.

    11th November 2012 at 11:41 am

  205. Administrator says:

    Fuck you Hucklebuck. Even a moron like yourself can probably figure out how to click the little button to see the comment. But maybe not. I should require an IQ test before I let idiots comment.

    11th November 2012 at 11:43 am

  206. SSS says:

    Hucklebuck steps in it and receives the standard TBP greeting.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhBaxtribe_kSU1-9xnBfX4EYcf19PsRicNlSLom2C-NLidrVX

    11th November 2012 at 11:56 am

  207. Watzup says:

    5815920

    12th November 2012 at 4:27 am

  208. BMG: Buy Bullion| Will a Prophet Assume Command? says:

    [...] read The Burning Platform article: Will a Prophet Assume Command? Share this:ShareShare on Tumblr Pin ItEmailDiggTurning from Green to Red Policymakers in emerging [...]

    12th November 2012 at 5:02 am

  209. Le Brit says:

    Hey Guys this stuff is off the radar, there is debt lots of it but it is not unsurmountable. Cut back on the role of World Policeman ( once the role of Great Britain), deregulate, cut taxes and government spending and things will turn around for the better.
    People on welfare should do community work, certain types of finanacial trading should be banned completely, QE should be stopped, real interest paid on savings and the benefits of shale gas and oil should be put into rebuilding the country’s infrastructure (pipes, wires, transport and roads).
    It doesn’t need a visionary or great prophet just somebody with common sense, focus and the ability to drive things through taking no notice of the lobbyists and vested interest groups. Come on USA you can do it!!!!!!! The world is watching.

    12th November 2012 at 6:46 am

  210. Novista says:

    Le Brit

    If common sense prevailed, most of the congresscritters would be indicted for violating their oath of office, banksters would be in jail or adorning lampposts, and everyone would understand simple arithmetic.

    Maybe the world should mind its own business, just as the U.S. should; sadly, too many countries have been living in delusion and denial and the wolf of reality is approaching the door.

    Funny thing about good ideas and no power — consider that the mice never were able to bell the cat.

    12th November 2012 at 5:15 pm

  211. theCL Report: Fired! says:

    [...] Will A Prophet Assume Command? [...]

    13th November 2012 at 11:17 am

  212. Kepi says:

    SAH, I don’t have quite the hate-on for Prophetic types you do, though I agree that they create, and/or exasserbate most of the problems faced in a crisis. However they seem to do so in a way that leads to a best case scenario for the next seculum’s crisis. I mean, sure, we’d all love it if there were no authoritarian dickheads, and we could all cooperate freely (and for the most part, most of the time, people can). But there’s always going to be problems and there’s always going to be problem people (and yes, they’ll usually wind up in the prophetic archetype).

    But let’s take a look at Lincoln. The guy was a dick, and he was a racist as much as any other abolitionist could be (they’re totally free to leave was the general sentiment). However, if the south had been free to negotiate it’s own trade (the real cause of the Civil War) the the north and south, no matter what format they existed in, would not be strong enough to fight and Win WWII. The Russians would have won, and they’d be king of the mountain.

    If FDR had done the right thing and said “look, banks can’t print money because that’s retarded” we wouldn’t have the only leg up on China we do (namely that ultimately they’ll be too old a population to sustain their behavior before we do and they’ll fall). History seems to favor humanity, while accepting that people are always going to completely botch it. So yeah, I think the prophets are self-promoting dickheads, however usually they just can’t seem to resolve the problems they inherit. With the Boomers, they inherited 1 problem. 1. Banks can still print money. Every other problem they’ve created, including all these side problems that come from not even bothering to address the problem they inherited. Dual incomes, Global Climate Change, ABBA these are just a few of the things Boomers did to themselves that they refuse to do anything about because they refuse to change course and even see as them a good thing.

    You have the Republicans, with a terrible narrative, then the Democrats who have next to no narrative (Hope and Change are a narrative as much as a cow is a hamburger) and they’re only winning because the Republicans narrative is so bad. You’ve got all these side parties who can’t get anything because our democratic process is first past the post and therefore fosters a 2 party system. You’ve got CEO’s who weild more power than most feudal lords could even with the same technology. You have riduculous nongovernment institutions weilding power (utility companies, HOA’s, Hollywood

    13th November 2012 at 10:10 pm

  213. Kepi says:

    SAH, I don’t have quite the hate-on for Prophetic types you do, though I agree that they create, and/or exasserbate most of the problems faced in a crisis. However they seem to do so in a way that leads to a best case scenario for the next seculum’s crisis. I mean, sure, we’d all love it if there were no authoritarian dickheads, and we could all cooperate freely (and for the most part, most of the time, people can). But there’s always going to be problems and there’s always going to be problem people (and yes, they’ll usually wind up in the prophetic archetype).

    But let’s take a look at Lincoln. The guy was a dick, and he was a racist as much as any other abolitionist could be (they’re totally free to leave was the general sentiment). However, if the south had been free to negotiate it’s own trade (the real cause of the Civil War) the the north and south, no matter what format they existed in, would not be strong enough to fight and Win WWII. The Russians would have won, and they’d be king of the mountain.

    If FDR had done the right thing and said “look, banks can’t print money because that’s retarded” we wouldn’t have the only leg up on China we do (namely that ultimately they’ll be too old a population to sustain their behavior before we do and they’ll fall). History seems to favor humanity, while accepting that people are always going to completely botch it. So yeah, I think the prophets are self-promoting dickheads, however usually they just can’t seem to resolve the problems they inherit. With the Boomers, they inherited 1 problem. 1. Banks can still print money. Every other problem they’ve created, including all these side problems that come from not even bothering to address the problem they inherited. Dual incomes, Global Climate Change, ABBA these are just a few of the things Boomers did to themselves that they refuse to do anything about because they refuse to change course and even see as them a good thing.

    You have the Republicans, with a terrible narrative, then the Democrats who have next to no narrative (Hope and Change are a narrative as much as a cow is a hamburger) and they’re only winning because the Republicans narrative is so bad. You’ve got all these side parties who can’t get anything because our democratic process is first past the post and therefore fosters a 2 party system. You’ve got CEO’s who weild more power than most feudal lords could even with the same technology. You have riduculous nongovernment institutions weilding power (utility companies, HOA’s, Hollywood, Lobbyists). These weren’t things that existed before the Boomers, and it’s not even self-righteousness. It’s just dickery.

    13th November 2012 at 10:12 pm

  214. ron says:

    Mazda must read TBP.My dad gets emails from them because he owns a new mx3.So he opens the new mail from Mazda and there is a section telling you to watch videos by Ann Barnhart.
    I looked at my dad and said maybe they are telling you to buy a new Mazda while you can.
    Mazda,the top car for the end of the usa.

    17th November 2012 at 6:51 pm

  215. Anonymous says:

    Strauss & Howe wrote these words in 1997. They had predicted the arrival of another Crisis in this time frame in their previous book Generations, written in 1990. This wasn’t guesswork on their part. They understood the dynamics of how generations interact and how the mood of the country shifts every twenty or so years based upon the generational alignment that occurs as predictably as the turning of the seasons. The last generation that lived through the entire previous Crisis from 1929 through 1946
    ~~~~

    Okay, the last crisis started in1929. Okay? So each Saeculum, being about 90 years. would mean, by SaH THEORY that another crisis should occur 90 years from 1929 and that would be 2019, right?

    Okay, so we are then still in the 3T turning since its not 2019. But I read where people say we have already entered the 4T.

    But then SaH write that the 4T will be sometime BEFORE 2025.

    Really? This is like me saying there will be a crisis in the next 50 or 60 years and will certainly be one before 2062.

    And and and why all i need is a crisis, any crisis, and If I dont get a really big one before between 2062 – – 2-71 then I can just go back and say Oh, well, the crisis was this event or that event and Waaaa F’n Laaaa, Viola, I am a prophet!!

    Jeebus on the monkey bars. When will the SaH’s readjust their numbers to make the ‘crisis’ the financial meltdown of 2008? 2025?

    20th November 2012 at 12:01 pm

  216. Novista says:

    I like your prophet & loss statement, particularly the mention of the musical instrument.

    20th November 2012 at 6:50 pm

  217. k ochevnk says:

    1780 Rev War II
    1860 Civ War I
    1940 WWII
    2020 ?

    80 years apart like clockwork. I read all the comments and my IQ dropped at least 20 points – 98 percent of you clearly never read the book and many of the rest of you have math issues.

    A saeculum is 80 years not 90 and the Catalyst (as S-H said, an event or SERIES of events) – 911 definitely, exacerbated by the multiple wars, housing crash and stock market crash.

    OBAMA IS HOOVER REBORN. 1961 birth is a BOOMER. He is desperately trying to prop up the status quo any way he can. 2016 will give us a Prophet who will, like FDR and Lincoln before him propel us right into WWIII/Civ War II/ Rev War II or as admin notes maybe all 3 at once.

    The Fourth Turning has been one of the most prescient books ever written and virtually NO ONE seems to be able to wrap their heads around it – as evidenced by the idiotic comments here and on ZH. Maybe it’s just too simple. I don’t know.

    My best guess has always been that the 2016 election would be the game changer – by then we will be so far down the slope that the left-right retards will be clamoring for some ‘Prophet’ to resuce them from their own stupidity. And inevitably that Prophet will look for someone, anyone to blame – and that is how we segue right into war. And as the admin has pointed out, each time the wars have been more devastating and more wide-spread.

    This time is different. You bet it is. It’s going to be far worse.

    Thanks for the only site on the internet that gets The Fourth Turning – you’re preaching to the Remnant admin, but we are out there, all 10 of us.

    k

    27th November 2012 at 9:38 am

  218. Kill Bill says:

    A saeculum is 80 years not 90 and the Catalyst (as S-H said, an event or SERIES of events) -Ko

    It is an average. And the book is a theory.

    By the 2nd century BC, Roman historians were using the saeculum to periodize their chronicles and track wars. At the time of the reign of emperor Augustus, the Romans decided that a saeculum was 110 years. In 17 BC Caesar Augustus organised Ludi saeculares (‘century-games’) for the first time to celebrate the ‘fifth saeculum of Rome’. Later emperors like Claudius and Septimius Severus have celebrated the passing of saecula with games at irregular intervals. In 248, Philip the Arab combined Ludi saeculares with the 1000th anniversary of the founding of Rome ‘ab urbe condita’. The new millennium that Rome entered was called the Saeculum Novum,[citation needed] a term that got a metaphysical connotation in Christianity, referring to the worldly age (hence ‘secular’).[citation needed]

    A saeculum is not normally used for a fixed amount of time, in common usage it stands for about 90 years. It can be divided into four “seasons” of approximately 22 years eac
    ~~~

    1961 birth is a BOOMER -Ko

    actually a 1964 birth is a boomer =)

    27th November 2012 at 10:26 pm

  219. AKAnon says:

    k ochevnk-welcome. KB-Still arguing against S&H w/o reading the book I see. Sounds like someone’s in denial….

    We’ve been down this road before-generational theory is based on attitudes, culture and shared experiences and influences, not on birthrate. 1964 Baby Boomers are Thirteeners or Xers, not Boomers. However, I do concur w/ SAH that Obama’s 1961 is arbitrarily close to the Boomer cut-off, and that O behaves more Boomer than Thirteener.

    28th November 2012 at 2:54 am

  220. Novista says:

    AKAnon

    Wot you said and … Demographics ain’t engineering. Or government guesses.

    Here’s the thing: the baby boom started in the last downturn of the Great Depression, going down in 1942 and starting up in 1943. Now, what you would be doing in 1942 if conscripted and due to have your ass shot off in Europe or the Pacific?

    And 1961 was a sea change for the U.S., electing a =Catholic= president, woah!

    Cusps are always a bit flexible; people are not machines. Speaking of which, as an engineer, who installed two RCA tape machine with sequential numbers ‘back in the day’, one conformed to a statistical standard, the other was a pain in the ass. Why?

    28th November 2012 at 8:00 am

  221. Kill Bill says:

    k ochevnk-welcome. KB-Still arguing against S&H w/o reading the book I see. Sounds like someone’s in denial….=AKA

    Since when did a ‘theory’ become absolute prophecy? Fuck, even the authors of the book say it is a theory.

    29th November 2012 at 1:58 am

  222. Kill Bill says:

    And 1961 was a sea change for the U.S., electing a =Catholic= president, woah =aka

    And in what book will I have to read to find this ‘truth’?

    29th November 2012 at 2:00 am

  223. Kill Bill says:

    I meant Novista and Not AKA in the last post. My bad. Blame the Vodka makers. =)

    ~~~

    1964 Baby Boomers are Thirteeners or Xers, not Boomers -Aka

    Yes, if you think everything in the theoretical book is fact.

    What you agree with is the opinion of the authors. That you agree with that DOES NOT make it a fact. I already kicked Oks low IQ ass and now you want some of that.

    Get back on the porch puppy before you go chasing an exhaust pipe and get have your mangy fur tattooed with a BF Goodrich 60 series radial tire.

    29th November 2012 at 2:08 am

  224. Novista says:

    Fuck you, Bill … looks like The Bride didn’t do a good enough job.

    I notice you avoid any confrontation with that awkward 1943 =fact= of when the baby boom started — and I didn’t get that from S&H. It’s not difficult to find half a dozen different sets of cohort dates from different analysts talking their own theory. Google is your friend.

    Demographics is not engineering.

    Why you even bother to stick around insisting on your viewpoint can only be attributed to obsessive compulsive behavior. All you gots is a narrow-minded attitude and a penchant of mean-mouthing an idea and with NO support for your position.

    29th November 2012 at 6:09 am

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  226. Kill Bill says:

    I notice you avoid any confrontation with that awkward 1943 =fact= of when the baby boom started -Novista

    Please oh please, prove to me when the baby boom started. You made the claim, prove it.

    30th November 2012 at 12:27 am

  227. Kill Bill says:

    Why you even bother to stick around insisting on your viewpoint can only be attributed to obsessive compulsive behavior -Ak

    Is that your viewpoint?

    Ah, now your a psychologist?

    Be careful,

    30th November 2012 at 12:30 am

  228. Novista says:

    I did have more psychology courses at uni than I might have preferred but experience serves as well.

    P.S. ‘your’ of course should be ‘you’re’ as in ‘you are’ but phonal spelling is so common these days.

    30th November 2012 at 6:09 am

  229. k ochevnk says:

    A (scientific) theory makes predictions about the future that can be tested as true/false (Popper).

    In my view the true false test got passed :

    On Sept 11 When America’s most famous buildings were destroyed.
    In 2003 when Bush went into Iraq for no reason at all
    In 2007 when the housing prices crashed 40 percent
    In 2008 when the stock market crashed 60 percent

    These are all part of the Catalyst – even down to one of the hypotheticals being ‘terrorists hijacking jet liners’ that quote is IN the book.

    And now in 2012+ as the Federal Budget is hyperbolic ascent.

    Anyone who does not see how inevitable it is that war is coming is completely clueless.

    The 4T has been RIGHT about EVERYTHING and they did it in 1997 – 15 years ago.

    You go ahead and denigrate and ignore it. It won’t matter because in 5 or 6 years you’ll most likely be dead.

    30th November 2012 at 12:00 pm

  230. Anonymous says:

    Two thumbs up, you may have fried a few circuits in my motherboard. Thanx Administrator

    1st December 2012 at 8:56 am

  231. ssgconway says:

    James Webb is my pick for Prophet. Here he is on ‘the 47%’ excoriating Romney. A Jacksonian moment from a Jacksonian Democrat.: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/jim-webb-on-givers-and-takers/263039/
    One can’t fake the kind of fire and passion he has…and S&H named him in 4T as someone they could see stepping up in a crisis. As he is not a fan of Iraq/Afghanistan, the ‘War on Drugs’ or the creeping police state, I can overlook his not being Ron Paulesque on other issues. It’d at least be a campaign worth following.

    2nd December 2012 at 2:20 pm

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