I say emphatically, “No!!”
Murder is murder …. even if the State does it.
Life in prison without possibility of parole is just as bad. It’s a living death. But, it needs to be done correctly; 23 hours a day alone in a small cell. No amenities such as a TV or books. Just let the evil little bitch sit there and think about things for the rest of her natural life.
I could be talked into exceptions for assholes who hurt children (kidnap, murder, rape, etc.). They probably should die. I know that’s inconsistent as hell.
But I’m OK with Jodi getting life in prison.
Stucky, You are right many times but here you are completely wrong. I am also a follower of Jesus Christ and I believe in full and complete forgiveness. Those who follow Him who cried “Father forgive them…” cannot but apprecite and practice forgiveness as their master taught them.
The law came through Moses but grace and truth came though Jesus Christ. So in a sense the harshness of law was replaced with mercy and grace, but the key is that it has to be primarily applied to individual human hearts and not societies. Jesus came to change human hearts and give them eternal life and not as a social reformer.
The society is still under the law, and the NT makes it very clear in many places. The justice system on this earth is ideally supposed to reflect the justice of God’s law and in many circumstances it does to an extend. So life for life is still applicable.
Having said that individuals can forgive, fully and completely. If you remember a few years in India an Australian missionary working among lepers in Orrisa, India and his two boys were burnt alive by hindu fundamentalists. Later his wife made a statement to the effect that she fully forgives the murderers of her husband. Now what does it mean? It means she does not carry any grudge or bitterness against the criminals.
But the law has no right to forgive because the state is morally obliged to mete out justice.She never bayed for the murderers’ blood and ask for any harsh punishments. She submitted to the will of God by accepting the punishment which the justice system meted out to the culprits. I personally feel life imprisonment (7 -14 years in India) was too lenient.
From Wikipedia – this was the final verdict of the supreme court.
The Supreme Court bench of Justices P. Sathasivam and B. S. Chauhan stated “Though Graham Staines and his two minor sons were burnt to death while they were sleeping inside a station wagon at Manoharpur, the intention was to teach a lesson to Staines about his religious activities, namely, converting poor tribals to Christianity”. The Court stated “Our concept of secularism is that the State will have no religion. The State shall treat all religions and religious groups equally and with equal respect without in any manner interfering with their individual right of religion, faith and worship.” Yet, condemning religious conversions, the Court also said “It is undisputed that there is no justification for interfering in someone`s belief by way of `use of force`, provocation, conversion, incitement or upon a flawed premise that one religion is better than the other”.
I think if she wants to die give her some cyanide tablets and be done with.
I support the punishment that will keep this savage woman off the streets for the rest of her life, and can be applied evenly, impartially, across the board for similar crimes in all cases, and cannot be easily appealed and overturned, as the DP can.
I would have nothing against prosecuting the death penalty in the case of Arias, as her crime was especially brutal and savage. I could support the DP in murder cases involving children, elders, handicapped people, or for cases involving exceptional cruelty, but with a much stricter standard of proof than what currently prevails. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” is not a strict enough standard for the death penalty- the perp must be proved guilty beyond ANY doubt.
However, the death penalty does not work as a deterrent because it is applied too unevenly, takes too much time and is too costly, and is too easily overturned. When you are sitting on a jury, you take your responsibility very serious. While you might convict with less than absolute 100% proof and accept “beyond reasonable doubt” when the perp is going up for a life sentence that could be overturned, you don’t want to send someone to his death for anything less than absolute certainty.
Therefore, crimes of exceptional savagery and cruelty should get life plus 100 years- a long enough sentence to guarantee that the perp will never, ever get out of prison alive.
stuck, I understand your position and I only made it a personal issue because my son’s girlfriend stabbed him below the shoulder once. we took him to the doctor who said, if she had hit him a little bit higher or lower i’m not sure, she would have killed him. my son played mum and would not comment to blame her. jodi arias deserves to die.
btw, I only commented once at the beginning, the dopplers are hilarious, I love their sense of humor. they made KB and LLcoolPOH look like the keystone cops.
btw, I only commented once at the beginning, -Juanton
Only you think that lie is true
Llpoh, We’ll always have Paris. (Do you remember our safety word?)
Dear Dumbass Trollop, if you dont know my email address you cant make my gravatar appear.
i see, i really am a dumbass
i have been tricked by a dopple.
dammit me
Jody Arias-Any relation to Arias pistons? Not that it matters. So what’s new in Lindsay Lohan’s life? How ’bout that class act Paris Hilton?
So the message is its ok to murder then you get to live out life with health carem food and shelter paid by the tax payer without having to work or repent!
Save the tax payer some money for once.
I vote execution by electric chair within 30 days of verdict.
Let her rot in prison for several years, then put her in a padded cell with only a gun for a few days. There, done.
Ethically and morally, I do not believe in the death penalty. Spending the rest of your life in a small cell is death enough.
I guess I am just horny old man but I think she is Hot.Think they would give her to me?
AKAnon, last I heard, neither Lindsay Lohan nor Paris Hilton had committed a vicious murder, or deliberately worked to do harm to another person.
They are stupid and irresponsible, yeah, and they deserve their respective sentences for DUI, but they can’t be compared to people who commit atrocious murders.
RP’s take from Liberty Defined:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_SMimKYARg
Zzzzzzzzz
At the end of the day, this post was meant to just stir up some lively debate shit. Things have been much to civil around here the past few days.
Mission Accomplished.
My true feelings are thusly;
I lean towards MINIMAL use of the death penalty for the same reasons as Big Dog llpoh …. minimal because the State makes so many damn mistakes.
But some people just need to die. In these cases the evidence MUST be clear and overwhelming … beyond a shadow of a doubt. Offenses would include; child rapists and murderers, serial killers, fuckwads like those Boston bombers, bankers, and people who thumbs down my posts …. for starters.
SVarghese
Nice post and I gave you a thumbs up for your well thought out argument. But, I disagree theologically for the following reasons.
1)- You make a distinction between individual forgiveness and The State (which is obligated to punish). But what is The State? Is it actual a separate entity? I don’t think so. The State is nothing more than a collection of individuals … albeit collectively carrying out the wishes of the individuals. In short, I see no moral distinction between the two.
2) Jeebus had opportunities to endorse a death penalty. But, he didn’t. There was the thief on the cross who mocked Jesus. There was the woman caught red handed in adultery, and the people had rocks in their hand to carry out the correct punishment. Please name one instance or one teaching of Jeebus that can be construed as Him supporting killing another human being as punishment.
3) On the other hand, Jeebus did teach that the Soul is more important than the Body. The State can only kill the body. The soul lives on forever … either in heaven or hell. What if the person the State is about to execute is not a Believer? Not only is his body killed, his soul is condemned to eternal damnation as well. What if he was given life in prison instead and he became a Believer? From a Christian perspective, isn’t that better? Is it not written — “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, …. instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” And if the prisoner never repents? Well, it is also written — “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”. In the end, justice will be served, and as a Christian, I would think that’s best left in God’s hands.
My intention was not to compare Arias to Lohan and Hilton as fellow criminals, it was to compare them as inconsequential, media-created non-stories. With all the serious shit going on, what sentence Arias gets is pretty much a non-issue to me. I hadn’t even heard of her till this post. Bread and circuses.
On the other hand, the death penalty debate is interesting. FWIW, if it were applied fairly and accurately, I would be firmly in the “fry-’em” camp. Basically the same argument as llpoh has made: Society (not the gov’t) has a right and duty to enforce some basic human laws. Recidivism = 0. And I don’t buy the argument that capital punishment is not a deterrent-it has not been applied conistently enough for anyone to make that claim. No doubt it wouldn’t prevent lunatics from going on crazy rampages. But suppose banksters faced the very real possibility of hanging for white collar crime above, say, one million dollars? Anyone think that wouldn’t have a positive effect? (Assuming they didn’t control the courts and legal system, of course.)
AKAnon says:
“With all the serious shit going on, what sentence Arias gets is pretty much a non-issue to me.”
there’s that old saw about a person who knows everything going on in the world but knows nothing of what goes on in his house.
it can seem suspicious that scandals take place right about the time a particularly embarrassing issue comes up in government. however, shall we turn a blind eye to murder because we want to focus on bigger things? imagine if llpoh disregarded a quarrel between employees because he wants to focus on the bigger picture of production? a small fire becomes a huge conflagration.
if you believe job one of the government is to secure the safety of citizens then this is an important matter, as important as the failure of the government to secure the safety of an ambassador.
Fuck her. Drag her to her grave out behind the truck.
Death by bukkake
I just now, moments ago, saw the post verdict interview with Jodi Arias. Jeebus, what a skank.
Fuckit. Disregard EVERYTHING I wrote previously. FRY THAT FUCKING HO !!!!
Stucky – Glad to see that you have finally seen what a POS Jodi Arias really is. Fry indeed.
PeaceOut says:
“Stucky – Glad to see that you have finally seen what a POS Jodi Arias really is. Fry indeed.”
worth repeating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or as they say in church, preach it, brother!
This Arias woman appears to meet my standard of proof to be eligible for the DP- she is guilty beyond ANY POSSIBLE DOUBT of a murder that is exceptional for its brutality.
Execute her.
And while we’re doing that, we need to reform the sentencing laws across the board. As they are now, they are irrational, shot through with loopholes that open the gates for plea-bargaining and other deals, and extremely uneven. As a result, our individual state justice systems are like lotteries: you might get life, you might get the DP, and you might walk free on some bullshit technicality or becauase the evidence was compromised so badly that no solid, legal case could be built and the jury was bound by law to free the perp, as happened with Robert Blake and Casey Anthony, as well as some other prominent cases.
One career criminal who later went on to reform himself, after serving a long stretch for “index” crimes like armed robbery and armed assault, stated that the best deterrent was the certainty of getting caught, and the certainty of punishment. Therefore, I’d rather see, say, a minimum sentence of 100 years that will surely keep the perp in for life, than a DP that is hardly ever enforced and all too often ends in the perp walking free.
Read this…this is part of the reason why I’m against the death penalty in most cases. witnesses are the most un-reliable form of trial evidence !
http://nersp.osg.ufl.edu/~malavet/evidence/notes/thompson_cotton.htm
there’s that old saw about a person who knows everything going on in the world but knows nothing of what goes on in his house -Ewe Be Juan
Kinda like when you spout a bunch of shit and not knowing whats going on inside your space riddled cranium where neurons never touch,
Jeebus, what a skank -Stucco
What do you expect from a cheerleader.
Kill B – i can’t take you seriously, you’re a sock puppet for el poh. you guys should get a room next time you decide to have a love in. you crack me up, boy.
And just when I thought Stuck and I would be sworn enemies on opposite sides of thing, once again I see the general goodness and light that I so admire in him. (Wish it didn’t beam from his ass, but cannot have everything). Despite him antagonizing me on another thread.
Stuck – peace be upon you.
“Offenses (leading to capital punishment) would include …. people who thumbs down my posts.”
—-Stucky
I’ve thumbed down every comment you’ve ever posted which I’ve read. No exceptions, big guy.
Kill Bill the dumbshit sock puppet
[img
[/img]
SSS
You’re a wrinkled dick piece of shit.
Dear Dumbass Trollop, if you dont know my email address you cant make my gravatar appear.
It’s: [email protected]
Just a thought. I know murder is murder. and killing is killing. Simply put, when should we put people to death? Look at BTK the serial killer, or any other serial killer for that matter. Jodi Arias killed someone, maybe the guy was a jerk. If some man planned and followed through by killing his girlfriend. She could have been a jerk. Can’t they just leave them? Why go to such extremes and murder, bind, torture, or kill them? Let’s face it. It’s not an easy decision, but do serial killers deserve to die? If a man or woman kills their mate, and planned it; doesn’t that count against them? personally, prisoners should be used more than then currently do, I’m tired of paying taxes to heat, cool, feed, and cloth them! Isn’t there some savings somewhere?