A few years back, Jesse James observed that electronic ignition modules were how “the man is going to shut you down” on one of his TV shows. True then, but the ECU control of every function is downright terrifying. At least manually hacking, they can only smoke one dissident at a time. But it won’t be long till (maybe already) before some 20 something gov’t hacker codes “smoke all Tea Party affiliates and all Ron Paul donors”. Automotive genocide, baby-save the FEMA camps for the FSA refugees. I’ll keep driving my old school junk, thank you.
Although some of the things they did were interesting almost everything they did can be commanded with the OEM level scan tool. The electronic steering and braking all have over rides under special test functions to test these items. The dash information center has has values that can be plugged into the IPC module through the CAN ( Controlled Area Network ) buss lines.
Every single thing they did takes actual physical contact with the vehicle. You can actually see the lap top has a cable running to the diagnostic test port. The idea that someone can port in through an open blue tooth connection and make the car crash is bull shit.
As conspiracy theories continue to mount about the death of 33-year-old journalist Michael Hastings, one prominent security analyst is substantiating the theory that Hastings’ car may have been hacked. Richard Clarke, the former chief counter-terrorism adviser on the National Security Council, believes that Hasting’s death was “consistent” with a cyberattack on his car.
In an interview with the Huffington Post, Clarke said that given current knowledge about hacking cars, the fatal, single car crash involving Hastings’ 2013 Mercedes C250 coupe, was “consistent with a car cyberattack.”
Clarke said that not only does the technology to hack cars exist, but “there is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers,” like the United States, are already equipped to stage such an attack.
“What has been revealed as a result of some research at universities is that it’s relatively easy to hack your way into the control system of a car, and to do such things as cause acceleration when the driver doesn’t want acceleration, to throw on the brakes when the driver doesn’t want the brakes on, to launch an air bag,” Clarke said. “You can do some really highly destructive things now, through hacking a car, and it’s not that hard.”
“So if there were a cyberattack on the car — and I’m not saying there was, I think whoever did it would probably get away with it,” he added.
Clarke’s comments likely referenced a 2011 study completed by computer scientists from the University of California, San Diego and the University of Washington, which found that it was possible for hackers to remotely gain access to a person’s vehicle, and potentially assume control of some the basic functions. In an article on the study, The New York Times reported that embedded cellular connections used in vehicles manufactured by GM, Toyota, Lexus, Ford, BMW and Mercedes Benz were all capable of being remotely undermined by hackers.
“These cellular channels offer many advantages for attackers,” the report said. “They can be accessed over arbitrary distance (due to the wide coverage of cellular data infrastructure) in a largely anonymous fashion, typically have relatively high bandwidth, are two-way channels (supporting interactive control and data exfiltration) and are individually addressable.”
Clarke clarified his remarks by saying that he believes the FBI’s statement that they were not investigating Hastings. However, he said that while he is not a conspiracy theorist, he would not rule out any theories until they have been proven otherwise. “I believe the FBI when they say they weren’t investigating him,” Clarke said. “That was very unusual, and I’m sure they checked very carefully before they said that.”
“I’m not a conspiracy guy. In fact, I’ve spent most of my life knocking down conspiracy theories,” he added. “But my rule has always been you don’t knock down a conspiracy theory until you can prove it [wrong]. And in the case of Michael Hastings, what evidence is available publicly is consistent with a car cyberattack. And the problem with that is you can’t prove it.”
just because the laptop is plugged directly into ecu of car in teh video aboce does not mean that basic idea couldn’t be utilized effectively.
a small “slave” computer could be installed and wired in much like the laptop, be small enough to be hidden and could receive signals from a remote pc/controller.
think about when you call tech support, you might be on your laptop with wifi enabled (no physical wire connected )but your pc functions aren’t being controlled by you. jimski is making it seem more far-fetched that it really is.
i’d be interested in knowing where his mercedes was serviced and if work was done recently. i don’t know mercedes but making the car “hackable” wouldn’t seem to be be as simple as putting a gps tracking device on the car.
Don’t buy or ride in anything that has OnStar or any of its derivatives. Don’t buy anything that is newer than about 2006-09, depending on the manufacturer. I personally draw the line at 2006, the year before the mandated TPMS racket went online. When looking at a potential car, check to see if the throttle, brakes, or steering is fly-by-wire. If so, walk away because those functions can be controlled by the PCM directly, bypassing the manual (driver’s) input.. I didn’t know these things when I bought my most recent vehicle, which is a 2007 model, so it has TPMS (deactivated by me) and a fly-by-wire throttle (swapped out for something else by me). My other beater car is a 2003 with manual/analog driver controls and almost no electronics options – certainly nothing wireless or tied to the OBD bus.
And, FUCK HYUNDAI. Have you seen their commercials bragging about how they monitor your car’s operational parameters 24 hours a day and can basically do anything they want by remote? And, even worse, that this is a new standard feature on all their models? And who buys Hyundai’s mostly? FSA and Sheeple, poor people and college kids – those most likely to jump in the car and cruise to the local riot or protest when the FS part of the FSA comes to a screeching halt.
I hereby declare, as Master of Doom and Gloom, that by the 2016 model year, you will NOT be allowed to purchase or register a new car that does not have this traffic Nazi-approved “safety feature” installed and certified (by the State, of course, for a fee, of course). ALL governments would absolutely love to have actual kill switches on their property.. er.. citizens. They haven’t yet managed to convince us to get the explosive brain implant, so they’ll just take the next best thing – our primary mode of transportation. I’m sure SSS is on the Implementation Advisory Board.
Also, they won’t pass any law that could possibly be subject to exposure or debate to do this – they’ll just have their criminal friends in the Insurance racket ‘modify’ the section of your government-mandated policy’s Terms and Conditions fine print and sneak it in that way. IF we’re lucky, the MSM will be told to tell us about a week before it all goes down, if even that.
you are absolutely right, the insurance cartel is their back door. they make insurance a legal requirement and let thos cocksuckers squeeze you into a corner. just take a look at the “snapshot” from progressive.
Yep. State Farm has one of those spy gizmos too. They’ll generously offer you a 5% discount if you choose to be spied upon – this is the Privacy Premium. It now costs 5% more to NOT be spied upon. Soon enough, they’ll just cancel your ass if you don’t agree to be tracked. One you get cancelled, just try getting another of the Racketeers to ‘insure’ you. My Christmas list of people and organizations to visit once the silly season kicks off is growing longer by the day.
I am so glad that folks with no or minimal automotive experiance decided to wade in on a topic that i have quite a bit of experiance in. I love the way that anaecdotal stories become fact. Lets review.
The post that admin made was full of the following ” reason to belive ” ” im not saying that there was ” ” potentially assume ” . These are all key words for i don’ t know what the fuck i am talking about.
THEN miss Tereas chimes in with information that on its face sounds like i am behind the time. Funny I do not remember seing you in the Iatn or the ASE web boards that i am either a member or moderator. Please.stay off the grass in my yard.
Here are some facts. You all remember facts right? Like.the fact that we are screwed financially? Canwe agree on that point?
Onstar uses a propriotary over ride system that is pre programed. At a dealership this can actually be tested for function through the LOW SPEED DATA BUSS? Are you paying attention Teresa? There may be a test. When a pre programmed command for the over ride is engagdedthe vehicle follows a pre programmed shut down procedure. The MIL ( Fuck you look it up ) flashes for 15 seconds and then the gauges all cycle to warn the driver of a shut down. The vehicle power is reduced by 20-30 % every 20 seconds until a.maximum speed of 10 mph is reached. At this point pats2( fuck you look it up again ) engages and shuts off the fuel pump. The vehicle then comes to a stop.
Now this is the important stuff it has a lot of math involved so if i loose some of the room temp IQ’s thento bad. The admin code to override the system is based on a roving code that changes daily. It is part of the VATS ( bla bla bla play inmy yard look it up ) system that has 1 x 10 to the 11 power combinations. The system is propriotory to.AC DELCO and having accesed the system through TIS2WEB multiple times i can say it can give you an override code for your system but only forlow speed data buss. LSDB can enact pre programmed commands but is not tied into HSDB.
High Speed Data Buss is mission critical data that is protected.by twisted wire amd software authentication. HSDB is separate from LSDB by PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS. In words that shit throwing monkeys can understand IT HAS NO CONNECTION! You can hack something that is connected but you need to be reall skilled to throw code into the Lsdb to make it weld a bridge connection to the hsdb.
SO anyways for fun i looked up the c-250 that the guy died in. Spent about 30 minutes verifing what i already know. The TAC unit is fed data raw from the TPS and PPS and sends an authentication signal to the ECU for authorization to procede with TAC Command. There is no connection between HSDL AND LSDL and these data lines. They are part of the 5 volt reference system. At the most ECU can command fail safe pre programmed power limiting if the PPS and TPS do not agree. They cannot command throttle on. As a service center with Mercedes LSID authentication ( LOOK IT UP ) I know how the system operates.
Now you can take a scientific breakdown of how the system works by some one who KNOWS how the system works or you can listen to a guy who uses words like could or maybee or might. I honestly do not care.
Droned. I think Obama appreciates irony. Plus, supposedly some witnesses heard/saw the fire ball erupt just before the car made impact? I am calling droning of US citizen on US soil, and the irony is the journalist most likely to dig into this story is the guy who is dead.
OK, Jimski, everyone is duly impressed with your knowledge of OBD and factory training on electronic controls. Thank goodness DARPA research stops with factory technician training. Right? No chance those bastards don’t know something you didn’t learn in factory training, right? And international banking stops with Econ 101 and your local savings account. Right? Nevermind, you are the expert. Just ask you, right?
Honestly, modern electronics are way, way, way beyond my level of expertise. But I am smart (or paranoid) enough to not trust “smart technology”. Re location tracking-my much smarter and techno-savvy kids told me nothing to worry about. Then Apple acknowledged “accidently” tracking and reporting their products’ whereabouts. Hmmm. Old fart was right, I guess. Maybe paranoid isn’t so irrational after all. I understand you are an expert on the subject-that doesn’t make you the last word on the subject. Think the intelligence community themselves know less than you?
Mr SAE approved Jimski,
I’m suitably impressed with your knowledge of all things modern car.
But, Just because a stock c-250 comes standard with the limited doo hickies and gadgets you mentioned does not rule out after market accessories like chrome spinner hubcaps, fuzzy dice, and wireless controls. Duh.
When I’m targeted for extermination, if not already, good luck taking control of my 80′s pickup. Gonna have to be a drone or RPG I reckon.
Sorry Jimski, didn’t mean to insult your technological expertise.
And others already pointed out that there is a high likelihood that things can be accomplished now, that are above your very impressive (not being sarcastic there, I love cars, I love car guys, that rocks) credentials.
Just because you know your pieces inside and out, doesn’t mean that pieces that you have not been trained on do not exist.
Oh yeah, I knew there was another reason for my comment.
Most people here – including me – were under the belief that if you turned off your cell phone/GPS, or removed the battery/power, that you cannot be found.
Guess what, nope, it can be.
All anyone would need is a program that can continue to access the network (silently), then it is “pinged” and the ping returns with coordinates.
The technology does exist, Lookout is a virus checker for phones that can cause your phone to “Scream” if lost or stolen, even if it is turned off.
From my tech training (years ago), it is pretty easy to figure out that if a signal can go forth and supersede a phone being shut off to activate the speaker, it could be used to locate you, read your texts, check your contacts, whatever the programmer wants.
This shit is getting scarier by the day and ya’ all will have to forgive me if it makes me bit upset.
Those that rely on gubment incompetence, or their playing fair/legal, or on what we are ALLOWED to know about technology (which is absolutely different than what we are told) to protect us from this tech nightmare are going to find out that they shouldn’t have.
But, I’m not certified, so what do I know? I’ll hush now
Hacking of any vehicle at this point in time will take physical access to the vehicle such as a spliced in module that can be controlled remotly. It would take me or someone with a background in electronics to produce a ” box” that would splice into the cruise control system to cause a full throttle situation. On an older vehicle you could also use a battery backup for ignition which would keep the engine running even with the key off. A secondary system would be needed to jam or break the transmission shifter or the driver would just slap that puppy in N. All of these things would leave tracks as the stuff would be visible after the accedent.
Pre 1975 vehicles with non electronics are a good choice for any non technical prepper for many reasons. EMP proof and simple but a bunch of spares will be needed as you will not be running to pep boys for parts on a 69 catalina.
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