We’re Installing New Windows and the ROI from Energy Savings is HORRIBLE

As a diversion from all the government shutdown lunacy, consider a very common home upgrade in America – full window replacement.

We’re putting in new windows. Our home is about 15 years old and the original windows are the typical lousy builder’s grade from that period. Many have since cracked or have condensation between the panes and the manufacturer is out of business so no replacements under warranty. I know in the summer we’re losing money on cooling costs and in the winter, there’s a ton of money going out the windows – literally. I can feel and hear wind whistling through some of the windows when it’s real windy and at night I can feel the draft. That being said, for such a large undertaking like a full window replacement, you’ve gotta run the numbers, right?

ROI on Window Replacement

The reality is that even though the windows are terrible and new windows would be much more efficient, I will never make my money back on this “investment”. Let’s be honest. Most people want new stuff and justify it to themselves by claiming they’re saving all this money on energy. Buying a new Tesla? You’ll never break even if you drive it for 100 years vs just buying a small, cheap fuel-efficient conventional vehicle. Putting solar panels on your roof in the Northeast? Doubt it. We have a family member that paid thousands of dollars to convert their house from electric to gas – and they’re moving within a couple years. Horrible, total waste of money.

So, let me show you my assumptions and calculated ROI (return on investment) and NPV (net present value) – both are negative.

…Continue Reading what a Horrible Investment New Windows Are.

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JIMSKI
JIMSKI

If you can not even install a window you prolly pay people like me to install your brake pads and rotors. I would ask you to turn in your man card but you never had one.

Makati1
Makati1

Window installation is not difficult. You had 22 to learn on. Pick one that is on the first floor, easily reachable and where the ‘oops’ won’t show. Ditto for number 2, etc. By the time you get to the places where they are often seen by neighbors, etc, you will be a pro. Then ‘yard sale’ the used ones to your neighbors who probably have the same windows if you are in a development, and the same problems. As you found out, guarantees either by their manufacturer or the contractor mean little in this changing world. Both may not exist in a few years and certainly not 20.

You paid someone a nice wage, plus profit, to do what you could have done with less than $1,000 in new tools and a dozen weekends. Odds are very good that the windows cost less than $200 each and the rest was profit for the contractor.

How do I know? I used to install things like this for Handyman. I built 2 – 2,400+ sf homes for myself and was in designing/estimating/project management for a home builder when I retired.

How will you fix/replace a window when you have to, if you do not learn when you can make mistakes and not suffer? A house is not brain surgery. People have been building their own for many thousands of years.

SSS

Darwin

Good article. Good analysis.

juan
juan

Makati1 says:

“As you found out, guarantees either by their manufacturer or the contractor mean little in this changing world. Both may not exist in a few years and certainly not 20.”

guarantees are bullshit. dr pangloss said the second you dig a hole for a plant, you have invalidated the builder’s drainage guarantee.

Chicago999444
Chicago999444

As a new owner of a 1930-vintage condo concerned with our building’s operating costs, and as a Peak Oil believer and one dedicated to reducing my energy consumption, I take a lot of interest in weatherization of dwellings and have attended a few classes and workshops on weatherizing older dwellings, which were built when coal cost $4 a ton and usually are very poorly insulated.

One of the first things these classes teach you is that replacing your windows is usually a waste of money and does very little to insulate your house or reduce your utility bills. You see, a pane of glass has insulation value of only R1. A double-pane window has a value of only R2. Worse, the insulating value of the window relies on the airtight seal between the panes never being breached. If that seal is breached even a little, which happens easily, especially with cheaper, poorly-made windows, you lose whatever advantage the window had and you also get condensation between the two panes. My windows will have to be repaired at great cost because a fire in the building breached the seals, and there is heavy condensation between the panes, which makes the windows look filthy.

It really breaks my heart to see people in my neighborhood, which is stuffed with really beautiful buildings of architectural significance built between 1920 and 1935, replace exquisite leaded-glass windows and multi-pane French doors with ugly dual-pane windows in the belief they will save money on their heat bills. They will save SOME money, but not nearly enough to justify the cost of the windows, still less the damage done to the aesthetic of their buildings.

Go for the low-hanging fruit first, and install insulating window shades or drapes instead. It also goes almost without saying that you should caulk and replace cracked panes, and use weatherstripping around exterior doors. Replace your windows only if they are hopelessly damaged and/or dry-rotted. The insulating shades are on tracks and can have an R value as high as R30, which does a lot more for your utility bills, for a lot less money. They come in many attractive styles and colors. If you want to spend more money, indoor wood shutters that can be left open for the sun in the daytime and closed up at night when the building loses the most heat, are even better. Then, with money you save on your heat bill, you can start the process of insulating your interior walls, which is costly and disruptive, but well worth the trouble in the money it saves you over time.

Chicago999444
Chicago999444

I get Stucky’s point- if you want new windows because yours are ugly & worn out, get them, because they will improve the appearance of your house and save you some money on energy in the deal.

It is more worth your money than a new car that depreciates the day you drive it off the lot, or the tons of “bling” that people waste their money on that ends up in storage lockers or landfills before it is even paid for.

But be careful of major plant expenditures meant just to improve energy use because these really major investments almost never save enough money to come close to offset what you spent.

That could change, though, if energy prices were to ramp up steeply in the years ahead. It would depend on how much and how fast. I personally prefer to prepare for the worst because I think we will get it, which is why we in my building are studying heating systems very carefully and thinking about winterizing the building, a major outlay. What if gas triples in the next decade? It surely isn’t worth what it would cost us, given current gas prices, to spend $100,000 having a “geothermal” heating system with a heat exchanger and buried pipes, installed, but in ten years or less, gas could become scarce and expensive enough to more than justify it, and we wouldn’t want to try to have it installed THEN. Likewise with solar panels- not worth it now, but could be lifesafers if energy prices were to change drastically.

Billy
Billy

Our farmhouse is 100+ years old. The bones of the house are all hardwood. Oak (white and red), poplar, etc.. not a stick of pine in it I can see.

Previous owners upgraded such things as windows and insulation, but the old propane (upgraded from coal… we still have the coal chute) furnace was hemorrhaging propane somewhere. Went through over $1000 in propane in 3 months- no WAY we were using that much! Found a leak in the propane line that the company addressed multiple times without actually fixing it… I think the people who work for (REDACTED) don’t have that job because they turned down the job offer from NASA.

In the end, we bit the bullet and round-filed the old furnace. I tell you the truth, the day that our new furnace went online was a good one- I called up the propane company and said “This is Billy and I live at XXX Main Street. Come get yer shit off my property!” BEST FEELING EVER!!

Upgraded to a high efficiency electric heat pump and AC. We still don’t run the furnace/AC all that much, since the house was built before AC and central heating, so it has thick plaster walls, really big windows for ventilation and faces North, so the porch is always in shade… Now all we need to do is have the fireplace issue addressed and we’re good to hook.

Will we get a return on any of this investment? Probably not. But I don’t care. We’re here to stay, come Hell or high water.

Milw05
Milw05

If you want to replace your windows due to draft or to keep the home warmer in the winter, then go for it, but keep in mind you will NEVER get your return on investment on the windows. A decent replacement window will run $200 to $300 per window install not included.

I live in Milwaukee and heat 1700 square feet in a home build in 1908. My heating bill runs around $900 per year or so. I would have to live in my home for the next 300 years for it to pay off. Salesman selling their bullshit of payoff in ten years or are full of it.

Seal the windows in winter with weatherizing caulk around the seams or clear seal plastic. It does the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

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