There are a lot of things to like about Rand Paul, but as BillD pointed out above he is still part of the establishment; supporting drones among other things (http://goo.gl/hdjN3). Why would “audit the fed” produce reliable information anyway? If done, it shouldn’t be considered any more reliable than BLS statistics. There is no political solution to what’s wrong with this country. We don’t need politicians and we don’t need rulers.
The entire government needs to be put down like the mortally injured animal is it…. before we are all crushed by its death throws.
Llpoh
January 7, 2014 8:05 pm
I read the article. I did not see Rand saying he should go to jail. He said he would come home if the potential penalties were reduced. He did say that Snowdon committed a crime, which he probably did. Nowhere did he say, best I can tell, that he should go to jail for it.
BillD
January 7, 2014 8:12 pm
Exposing the crimes of others is not a crime and only in the most sick and twisted societies could it be misconstrued as one.
Persnickety
January 7, 2014 8:34 pm
There’s not one iota of hope for positive change in this nation, it’s all just a stupid waiting game until the fireworks begin.
Llpoh
January 7, 2014 9:02 pm
BillD – crimes are defined by law. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with justice, morality, or anything else. Rand is simply acknowledging that fact, and is saying if they powers that be say Snowden will not face life in jail he will return to face the charges. Rand did not comment on whether he deserved jail, best I can tell.
Society must have laws protecting its critical secrets. If a person is found to have revealed illegal activity they should be freed. Nonetheless, they must go to trial. Otherwise secrets could not be protected.
You are naive at best.
Llpoh
January 7, 2014 9:17 pm
Amazing that folks cannot see past their desire for Snowden to get off to see it is a legal issue. People that release secrets, justifiably or otherwse, must go through the legal process. Folks cannot be allowed to unilaterally make the determination that a crime has been committed. Otherwise every left leaning moron will give away secrets they find illegal, as will every right wing nutjob. I believe Snowden must or should be exonerated. But it must be via an appropriate process. Perhaps a presidential pardon should be made.
BillD
January 8, 2014 3:18 am
Lloph,
You are a moron at best. Everyone has their right to stupidity but unfortunately this has become the root of the problem in the us: stupidity, apathy, blind faith in authority or some combination thereof. You comment about justice through the courts after calling someone naive is hysterical. You have to be deaf blind dumb and retarded to think there is any justice available through the us court system.
Working man's chest surgeon
January 8, 2014 5:31 am
There really is a simple solution if we as a citizenry just had some balls.
Vote out every incumbent. The Constitution gives us that authority every two years, yet we abdicate it.
Any dysfunction is our own fault. We get the government we deserve. Voter turnout for the midterms will prob be under 50%.
harry p.
January 8, 2014 8:04 am
BillD,
little harsh for Llpoh there, I am not a huge fan of Rand, I prefer his pops infinitely more. I am as guilty as most if not more for throwing away the “good” simply because it is not “very good” or “perfect”. A non-violent revolution, as unlikely as a I think that is, will not happen overnight, forcing the system to have more people like Rand Paul would be in improvement compared to what is the majority now with those like Hatch, King, Pelosi and Reid. It will be incremental or it will be bloody.
I will say that Rand and how he is viewed is a good barometer of where we are as a nation. If he was an “average” Senator we would be in half descent shape (and places like TBP would be less frequented) but he is an “outlier” which undoubtedly indicates this country is far off its rocker.
Rand saying Snowden belongs in jail was more in the sense that the law can’t be selectively enforced, which is why he actually said he should be in a cell next to Clapper. Snowden, Rand and the monsters in charge know that a real trial on this matter would do continual harm to them.
I personally read the article linked at the top as well as saw the interview that many comments were pulled from and don’t disagree with much Rand said there (per my interpretation). Snowden should be viewed as a hero but he did take property. That property was very likely illegal but that does not change the facts that it was taken without the apparent owners consent. Just like a cop taking evidence without a warrant.
I see what he did as a non-violent protest and appluad him for it.
He did a great service and will likely get “double-tapped” as a reward sometime in the future but I also believe if he knew he would get a fair public trial he would ahve stayed or come back to face the music because it would shine even more like on the den of vipers he exposed (many non-violent freedom fighters stood for what they believed in and spent time in prisons and the publicity from their prison sentence hurt the establishment as much as the protests if not more). Any time spent in prison would expose the fact that our system is flawed even more and the risk of further people awakening. It would not only be Snowden on trial, the system itself would be on trial.
But he ran because he knows he would have been judged by some military tribunal in some secret court nad likely would have been executed 30 secs after “sentencing”, him fearing for his life, no matter how long or short it lasts is his cross to bear.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that Rand is leading a class action lawsuit against the NSA that could include just about anyone with a cell phone.
That being said, Rand often turns me off but part of that is because with the last name Paul I expect more from him.
flash
January 8, 2014 9:44 am
enuff said.
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. Thomas Jefferson
BUCKHED
January 8, 2014 1:00 pm
LLPOH…I agree with you points but alas I doubt Snowden would ever get a fair trial . He probably would end up in some form of star chamber or perhaps even sent to Guantanamo Bay as an enemy combatant for 20 years without charges . Harr P is correct I think that Snowden knew he’d never get a fair trial .
What we need in this country is for people to first vote ALL of the bastards out .
Maybe so but have you seen this scumbag wants to put snowden in jail instead of giving him the medal he deserves?
Randy boy is a traitor like all the rest in government.
String em up!
http://rt.com/usa/rand-paul-snowden-sentence-242/
There are a lot of things to like about Rand Paul, but as BillD pointed out above he is still part of the establishment; supporting drones among other things (http://goo.gl/hdjN3). Why would “audit the fed” produce reliable information anyway? If done, it shouldn’t be considered any more reliable than BLS statistics. There is no political solution to what’s wrong with this country. We don’t need politicians and we don’t need rulers.
The entire government needs to be put down like the mortally injured animal is it…. before we are all crushed by its death throws.
I read the article. I did not see Rand saying he should go to jail. He said he would come home if the potential penalties were reduced. He did say that Snowdon committed a crime, which he probably did. Nowhere did he say, best I can tell, that he should go to jail for it.
Exposing the crimes of others is not a crime and only in the most sick and twisted societies could it be misconstrued as one.
There’s not one iota of hope for positive change in this nation, it’s all just a stupid waiting game until the fireworks begin.
BillD – crimes are defined by law. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with justice, morality, or anything else. Rand is simply acknowledging that fact, and is saying if they powers that be say Snowden will not face life in jail he will return to face the charges. Rand did not comment on whether he deserved jail, best I can tell.
Society must have laws protecting its critical secrets. If a person is found to have revealed illegal activity they should be freed. Nonetheless, they must go to trial. Otherwise secrets could not be protected.
You are naive at best.
Amazing that folks cannot see past their desire for Snowden to get off to see it is a legal issue. People that release secrets, justifiably or otherwse, must go through the legal process. Folks cannot be allowed to unilaterally make the determination that a crime has been committed. Otherwise every left leaning moron will give away secrets they find illegal, as will every right wing nutjob. I believe Snowden must or should be exonerated. But it must be via an appropriate process. Perhaps a presidential pardon should be made.
Lloph,
You are a moron at best. Everyone has their right to stupidity but unfortunately this has become the root of the problem in the us: stupidity, apathy, blind faith in authority or some combination thereof. You comment about justice through the courts after calling someone naive is hysterical. You have to be deaf blind dumb and retarded to think there is any justice available through the us court system.
There really is a simple solution if we as a citizenry just had some balls.
Vote out every incumbent. The Constitution gives us that authority every two years, yet we abdicate it.
Any dysfunction is our own fault. We get the government we deserve. Voter turnout for the midterms will prob be under 50%.
BillD,
little harsh for Llpoh there, I am not a huge fan of Rand, I prefer his pops infinitely more. I am as guilty as most if not more for throwing away the “good” simply because it is not “very good” or “perfect”. A non-violent revolution, as unlikely as a I think that is, will not happen overnight, forcing the system to have more people like Rand Paul would be in improvement compared to what is the majority now with those like Hatch, King, Pelosi and Reid. It will be incremental or it will be bloody.
I will say that Rand and how he is viewed is a good barometer of where we are as a nation. If he was an “average” Senator we would be in half descent shape (and places like TBP would be less frequented) but he is an “outlier” which undoubtedly indicates this country is far off its rocker.
Rand saying Snowden belongs in jail was more in the sense that the law can’t be selectively enforced, which is why he actually said he should be in a cell next to Clapper. Snowden, Rand and the monsters in charge know that a real trial on this matter would do continual harm to them.
I personally read the article linked at the top as well as saw the interview that many comments were pulled from and don’t disagree with much Rand said there (per my interpretation). Snowden should be viewed as a hero but he did take property. That property was very likely illegal but that does not change the facts that it was taken without the apparent owners consent. Just like a cop taking evidence without a warrant.
I see what he did as a non-violent protest and appluad him for it.
He did a great service and will likely get “double-tapped” as a reward sometime in the future but I also believe if he knew he would get a fair public trial he would ahve stayed or come back to face the music because it would shine even more like on the den of vipers he exposed (many non-violent freedom fighters stood for what they believed in and spent time in prisons and the publicity from their prison sentence hurt the establishment as much as the protests if not more). Any time spent in prison would expose the fact that our system is flawed even more and the risk of further people awakening. It would not only be Snowden on trial, the system itself would be on trial.
But he ran because he knows he would have been judged by some military tribunal in some secret court nad likely would have been executed 30 secs after “sentencing”, him fearing for his life, no matter how long or short it lasts is his cross to bear.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that Rand is leading a class action lawsuit against the NSA that could include just about anyone with a cell phone.
That being said, Rand often turns me off but part of that is because with the last name Paul I expect more from him.
enuff said.
If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. Thomas Jefferson
LLPOH…I agree with you points but alas I doubt Snowden would ever get a fair trial . He probably would end up in some form of star chamber or perhaps even sent to Guantanamo Bay as an enemy combatant for 20 years without charges . Harr P is correct I think that Snowden knew he’d never get a fair trial .
What we need in this country is for people to first vote ALL of the bastards out .