Is Hillary a Gray Champion

After reading The Fourth Turning, I found myself looking at things more in terms of cause and effect, less in terms of party politics. Each party’s claims to be more ethical and virtuous than the other ring hollow in light of decades of dysfunction. The fourth turning destroys the rotten and decayed system and establishes new foundations for government and society. The lesson to be learned is that of letting go of the institutions and beliefs that are holding us back and embracing what will propel us forward. This is the time to challenge and test our belief systems, to find our true priorities.

Is Hillary a Gray Champion?

Well, here we are, deep into the fourth turning, a process that has taken nearly eighty years to unfold. When the next presidential election rolls around, we will be nearly a decade into the crisis. By all accounts, things are bad. More than likely, they will get worse before they get better. In their book, authors Strauss and Howe give us something to look for during these dark times. They offer up a sliver of hope: The rise of the Gray Champion. These ”ancient, priest warrior” figures appear at the depths of the crisis, just when the world seems ready to fall apart, “delivering their fiery sermons” to a society that is finally ready to listen. It’s these elder prophets who will call upon their peers for sacrifice and their offspring for action, who will provide the strength not only to endure but prosper.

But that’s just a story. We need real men and women in Washington who can affect real change. Sadly, politicians today offer little hope and even less inspiration. With approval ratings being the lowest in history, for good reason, it doesn’t seem likely that our leaders will get their act together to inspire anything from anyone. Yet the Fourth Turning prophecy tells us it will not be this way forever. Real people will step out from the fog of rhetoric to become the true leaders of our time. Who are they? Let’s take a look at one of today’s prominent political figures through the lens of the generational cycles and archetypes laid out in The Fourth Turning.

Hillary Clinton, who was born in October of 1947, is a first wave boomer. Her childhood occurred solidly in the new American high of the 50’s and 60’s, and her coming of age young adult years occurred at the height of the consciousness revolution and culture wars. This, combined with her GI parents, conservative and religious, gave her a solid and stable family and the belief in the ability of government to govern that is missing in today’s society. The foundation of the Boomer Prophet was laid. This will be the experience that Hillary and others in her generation will spend a lifetime trying to recreate for everyone.

She regularly communicated with her family minister while growing up and as a teenager she was quite politically active. Big surprise, right? Did you know she was a young republican in college? Yup. She described herself as “a mind conservative and a heart liberal”. Hillary’s college years reveal this dual mindedness, already an activist for a variety of issues and gaining confidence in her moral and ethical positions. By graduation, a career in politics was in the works. This is a classic tale of a young Prophet on a spiritual quest, testing the waters of ideology and discovering the pulpit. The civil rights movement saw the policy tweaking boomers in action, to successful ends. These Prophets were morally right and had incorporated this sense of justice into the system. But there is no end to injustice– there is always another cause. Hillary would be busy.

After marrying Bill and moving to Arkansas she began to take an interest in child rights, health and well being that would continue far into the future. Among other initiatives, she co-founded The Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, chaired the Rural Health Advisory Committee and the Arkansas Education Committee. This is all pretty much straight out of the Prophet’s playbook. The importance of family, the rights and safety of children, the focus on health. These are the priorities of the civic minded Boomer Prophet during the Unraveling. Remember when, contrary to the independent woman themes of earlier decades, Hillary remained married after an affair. Throwing the Awakening era mindset through a loop.

During her long political career as FLOTUS, Senator and Secretary of State, Hillary has continued to work towards the goals of helping and empowering children and women. She went on to help create the Adoption and Safe Families Act, The Foster Care Independence Act and was outspoken on issues regarding abuse against women all over the world. This is the Boomer Prophet in action. Faced with endless injustice and a declining strength of government institutions to address them, the answer has always been the same. Expand the safety net. Expand the role of government. Expand the bureaucracy. Increase obligations. Compassion without true structural reforms only served to overburden the dysfunctional system, as chaos turned to rot and fraud, the stage for the Fourth Turning was set. Now it is too late to prevent the pain of reform, compassion must take on new meaning.

Her connection to the church was maintained and strengthened through exploration of varying faiths, leading to a philosophy that wished “to remold society by redefining what it means to be a human being in the twentieth century, moving into a new millennium”. She really does want to change the world. Right on schedule. She strongly supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan at the beginning of the last decade, as a chance to further her personal goals of empowering women and children. Not WMDs. Not 9/11. Hillary supported the wars in the middle east to help people, that is, to “spread democracy”. She wanted to go to war because it was “right”. Sound anything like these “priest warriors”, such as Lincoln and FDR, whose “righteous” calls for blood and sacrifice will bring about the new High?

So, we can see by her upbringing and policies that Hillary Clinton has been walking the path of the boomer Prophet almost as if it was written for her. She is a controversial figure because of this, always embodying the cycle of turnings for her generation. Her leadership qualities are unquestionable, no one can deny that. She has firm spiritual beliefs and a strong sense of ethics and justice. She is willing to fight to preserve and spread those beliefs. But will she be a Gray Champion? What does her personality tell us?

The Myers Briggs Personality Indicator is a well known test that is used by psychologists, fortune 500 companies, universities and government agencies as well. A quick Google search finds that Hillary is an ESTJ, known as a “supervisor”. That stands for Extroverted, Sensing, Thinking, Judging. According to the test, these types of people are steadfast civic minded individuals, detail oriented and methodical. ESTJ’s are very often organized, self confident and aggressive leaders who follow their own standards to the letter. This personality is likely to preserve the status quo, rather than make large sweeping changes, such as staying in a marriage after a spouse is caught cheating. This might sound counter-intuitive to her possible role as a Gray Champion but I think it speaks more about when she would be most effective. Given the opportunity to maintain the status quo, Hillary will attempt to do so. That said, ESTJ’s are not ones to stick to a losing strategy once it is identified as such.

What we see is a very strong personality who plots her own course, who will not be turned away from it and will demand that others follow, generally with a high degree of success. All of this is sounding very much like the Grey Champion’s “combining the leader and the saint” to represent and fulfill society’s new found desire for authority. Under the right circumstances I believe she has the brains, personality type and the leadership skills do the job: To craft a new safety net, to forge new institutions, to make new alliances and confidently hand a stronger, healthier nation down to the children she has so long cared for. When the bloated and broken system fails, Hillary Clinton stands out among Washington bureaucrats as having the skills and ability to pick up the pieces. However, she must go through her own final transformation to that of an elder prophet before doing so.

As an influential politician Hillary Clinton has had a hand in bringing about the crisis we face. She will have to make her peace with that. The Boomer Prophet generation is the axis around which the current cycle of turnings rotates, bringing the nation to where it is today. Like all of our Prophet leaders Hillary shares the burden of blame along with the responsibility to repair. The lessons of the fourth turning will be hard or maybe even impossible for her to accept personally. Should she fail to do so, I think it would be disastrous for society if she rose to the power of president. The old way of thinking– the tactics and policy tweaking of the last cycle– won’t solve our problems. For her to continue them would mean ruin. But if she is wise and heeds the changing of the seasons, her ability and desire to lead just might be able to bring about Strauss and Howe’s “great transformation”, to combine that mind conservative and heart liberal that first drove her to politics.

The Fourth turning is upon us; there is no escaping its effects. It will bring about the change our nation so desperately needs, though it won’t be pleasant. We all know the nature of the crisis we face. Our society simply cannot afford the “welfare and warfare” government we have promised ourselves, that Hillary promised. Many paths lie ahead, leading to many versions of the next cycle of turnings, some darker than others. We will need our Gray Champions to step to the forefront, to “lead humanity toward a great transformation”. Is Hillary Clinton that leader? Will she join the ranks of other Gray Champions in history? Or will she stand in the way of one who does?

Time will tell.

Author: Punk in Drublic

Mainer 4 Life!

55 thoughts on “Is Hillary a Gray Champion”

  1. Punk, I have to congratulate you on an excellent post. I was afraid, when I saw the title, that you would get too deep into the Gray Champion mythology. Too many people that only one GC steps forward and leads the entire course of the Crisis / 4T. I had that conversation with Bill Strauss over dinner one night and he greatly clarified it for me. There are many Gray Champions, all of them stepping forward with rallying cries, that propel people to finally take action. But it is society that determines which direction the Crisis takes and how it is resolved.

    Hope to see you post more often.

  2. There are times when the most unlikely characters step up and lead.

    The one that leaps to mind is Winston Churchill.

    But I doubt that Hillary will rise to the task. She has evolved into a ruthless politician, and is hungry for power, and bitter it was not granted her in 2008. In my opinion.

    Stranger things have happened, but I do not think it likely.

    Plus I hate the ugly bitch.

  3. What has Hillary really done in her life? Rode the coat tails of her philandering, chubby chasing lying husband? A Congresswomen that did absolutely nothing positive. She has no ideals, no morality, she’s a closet lesbian, no ethics. She’s a career politician, milking the feminist and liberal progressive base for support. But what has SHE done? Just like Obama, absolutely nothing.

    Has she ever run a business? Nope. Does she have any foreign policy experience? Nope, well, yes, every foreign policy matter she’s touched has been a catastrophic disaster. Does she have any economic experience? Nope. But she’s going to run on the same blank, meaningless platform Obama did, but instead of “hope” and “change” it will be something else, like “women first”, or “cut their balls off”. It shows how low and weak our country has become, that she has so much support already. She’ll load on the free shit and win in a landslide, if our economy and country don’t collapse before then. My money is on collapse before 2016, martial law, and Obama as dictator, followed by civil war. Obama will once again prevent Hillary from having her time in the sun. But it doesn’t really matter, she has absolutely nothing positive to offer this country.

  4. AWD – what has she done in her life? As I said, I hate the bitch, but she has done lots. Make no mistake. As far as private sector work, she was a partner in a private law firm. She has massive public sector credentials.

    And I would not trust her as far as I can throw her.

  5. Punk – you little asshole. Here I am sleeping peacefully in my grave, and you pull the dumbest shit imaginable. I have been resting easy believing that I had taught you much, and you were one of my great sucesses.

    No I am going to come back and haunt your sorry ass. You know that I despise that stupid earthpig. I would never have consented to die if I thought there was any real chance of her becoming President. I would have struggled on and fought her to the gates of hell, from which she spawned.

    You did this just to ruin my eternal slumber. Get prepared, as I am going to visit your sorry ass every night. And if I catch you pulling your pud, it will be double bad for you.

  6. I hate that bitch too and she will be just as determined to take the nation down.the socialist path.

    This is off topic but I just got back from Wal-Mart and they are now selling bulk ammunition in.military containers .I bought 1000 rounds of 7.62-39 (ak)for 285 dollars +tax and 500 rounds of 308 Winchester for 374 +tax .They also had 5.56 ,9 mm , and 22long in 1000 round containers.The manager told me they would be selling bulk ammo at the stores that sold guns.You can find it a little cheaper on the internet but this is still a good deal .Take a look the next time your in a Wal-Mart , you may find some really good deals on ammo.

  7. Looks like punk picked the wrong week to anoint Hillary the Grey Champion. Two words, Punk, 5 hr energy, red bull and no doze, just don’t fall asleep or you die.

  8. Many thanks to the Administrator for making me a contributor. It’s been a while since I’ve taken part on TBP, glad to know I’ve still got a home here.

  9. Thinker, thank you. Really. I listened to an interview with Neil Howe from last summer. Placing the start of the fourth turning in 2008. I’t might be a little early for the gray champions to show up, but I’m keeping my eyes open for any possibilities.

  10. …..Granted this is well written….fawningly well written….so much so I questioned whether I was reading a love letter.

    She’s accomplished soooo much, but on her own?? She’s is being, and has been, carried all the way. Carved out her own path my ass. And FYI – “Hillary Clinton has been walking the path of the boomer” Prophetess. Prophet position still open.

    As to: “As an influential politician Hillary Clinton has had a hand in bringing about the crisis we face. She will have to make her peace with that. The Boomer Prophet generation is the axis around which the current cycle of turnings rotates, bringing the nation to where it is today.”

    Was her having had a hand in bringing about the crisis; and bringing the nation to where it is today……built on this foundation?:

    “…..Jerry Zeifman, who supervised a much younger Hillary Clinton when she worked as a staffer for the Watergate committee:

    ‘A lifelong Democrat, Mr. Zeifman supervised the work of 27-year-old Hillary Rodham on the committee. Hillary got a job working on the investigation at the behest of her former law professor, Burke Marshall, who was also Sen. Ted Kennedy’s chief counsel in the Chappaquiddick affair. When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation – one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman’s 17-year career.’


    “Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview last week. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality.’

    I can only hope a Gray Champion does not emerge from the Cabal at the top. How would that even be possible?

    Gray Champion/Cabal……it’s like Good vs Evil.

  11. AWD – be wary of Punk. He suckled at the breasts of the very best. He may be rusty, but once he was a champeen. And can be again.

  12. Punk, I think you’re right about it being early, but keep in mind that GCs typically arise from the various “resolution angles” of a Crisis. So, while Hillary may be a perfect example from the liberal / progressive side, Ron Paul is just as equal a possibility from the Libertarian side.

    There will be others, from all areas of community — religious leaders, local officials, even bloggers, this time around. The Prophet-gen men and women who step forward to motivate citizens to take action to resolve the issues of the day will be the ones to think of.

    It’s still too early to see if we’ll take a highly-progressive route like the last 4T or if it will be a more regressive one like the Civil War 4T.

  13. T4C
    Honestly, I’m not a Hillary Clinton supporter. It came as a complete surprise to me when I decided to write this… I don’t know if I would call her corrupt but your’e right, she absolutely is part of the cabal at the top. And she absolutely might take us to a very dark place.

    Not all Gray Champions will be the kind of people that TBP members will like.

  14. Webster Hubbell was Chelsey’s real father not Bill.Look at pics of Chelsey before her nose,chin,and lip job- Also what would a discussion of Hillary be without the Clinton body count.Add Benghazi .She most certainly played a role in the “stand down “orders.Hillary also did her best to cover up Bills sick side of rape and molesting women.She was said to have her brother stalk Bills victims among other things to silence them.It gets much worse of course.To have this monster in the WH would be crushing for America.

  15. Punk

    Very well written and presented. Kudos.

    On the other hand, when you can convince me that Hillary is not a classic, hard-core liberal, on the same plane as Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden, who has not budged one inch from her political philosophy in the past 20-plus years, then I will take a second look. As of now, there is absolutely nothing in her political playbook that says otherwise. She’s Obama on steroids.

    Her overarching goal in life is to be the first female president of the U.S. Everything she does and says between now and election day 2016 will be to advance that personal goal. Sadly, in my view, the odds are in her favor.

  16. I cannot express the fucks I cannot give over who is the next POTUS (wait, wtf? I thought Obama was supposed to be the president for life?). But if it has to be a woman (obviously she would be hopelessly corrupt and lacking anything in the way of any meaningful accomplishments, but…), can’t she at least be one who is remotely attractive?

  17. AWD says:

    “Obama will once again prevent Hillary from having her time in the sun. But it doesn’t really matter, she has absolutely nothing positive to offer this country.”

    Leadership. At least we’ll be heading somewhere instead of going round this mountain for two more years. What was the point of electing the country’s first black prez if not to cement the idea that blacks are the cultural prima donnas of this country.

    Image, after all, is above all else in this brave new world of smoke and mirrors where reality is what the msm says it is and the shadows moving behind the scenes are to be ignored. Pay no attention to the fact that we are getting nowhere with the economy, immigration reform, the national debt or jobs. We will ring the bells and you will salivate on cue.

  18. SSS
    Thank you for your kind words.
    I will do no such thing. Her views are what they are. I’m not defending them or trying to imply that she is anything other than an extreme leftist. She’s damn good at it, too. WAY better than Obama. Ever looked at the Clinton Foundation website? You can bet she would have had the ACA website off and running like sports car.


  19. “…… can’t she (Hillary) at least be one who is remotely attractive?

    Sigh. The “looks” game. Why does this metric apply to women more than men?

    Ok, I’ll play along. How about South Carolina governor Nikki Haley? Her parents are Sikh Indians. At least they’re close to your part of the world.


  20. If she is a Sikh Indian, they need to find the bastards that gave her the smallpox laced blankets and string the bastards up.

  21. I always though if I had ever run into Hillary and asked for her autograph,I would have her write” I don’t recall”under it……..

  22. Punk, didn’t you mean to say Gay champion? …but even so, the word champion used to describe this barf-bag of 10 cent hag is really quite a stretch.

  23. bb: Wideners has most flavors of AK fodder for 228FRNs. Punk: great post! Hitlery scares the shit outta me precisely because she CAN get things done. All the wrong things!

  24. punk,
    nice write-up, I would categorize her as a gray-haired evil tw-unt but you laid out a lot of valid points. I think the biggest thing that could determine whehter she assumes this role is the timing of crisis’ bottom. if it occurs in the near future i can see people turning to her but i think it happens after the next election so she very well couldbe the sitting president and catch much of the blame and hateful intentions.
    the best argument i can make in favor of her being the gray champ would be that we rarely are presented with the leaders we need (and a Ron Paul shows up they are mocked); we end up with teh leaders we deserve (scum-sucking power hungry wanna be emporers).

  25. Harry, thanks.
    I’m assuming that the whole damn thing falls apart under the next president. Which will probably be Hillary. Maybe its just wishful thinking… But I think when she makes the transition to Elder-hood, she might surprise people.

    You can wish that Ron Paul is electable and I can wish that Hillary will switch to my positions. We’re still just playing pretend.

  26. @SSS – “Her overarching goal in life is to be the first female president of the U.S. Everything she does and says between now and election day 2016 will be to advance that personal goal. Sadly, in my view, the odds are in her favor.”

    Gray Champion or not, SSS is right.

  27. @harry p., who wrote “we end up with the leaders we deserve”. I am sick and tired of people like you who tell us it’s our own fault for the leaders who end up in office. Exactly who is the “we” in your sentence? The voters? The public at large? The media? It’s the latter that influences greatly who ends getting elected (once TPTB decide who will be on the ballot and the prospective incumbent has bought his/her way to the primary election). We the people have little to no affect on who is elected.
    If you haven’t figured out by now that elections are a rigged game, I feel sorry for your intellect.

    I work hard to raise my family and pay my “fair share” (probably more than my share) of taxes. I value the principles of our constitution and capitalism as envisioned by the founders (but despise today’s twisted corporatism/fascism state it has evolved into).

    So don’t tell me that I deserved these corrupt, evil politicians. I deserve better!

  28. rise up,
    this nation as a whole is made up of people who fall into into one or more of the following groups. govt drones, corrupt politicians, entitlement recipients and mouth breathers with room temp IQ’s who despise the idea of true freedom. All these people suck and have souls made mostly of dogshit.
    If the USSA is a stew made up of the 300+ million people who live here, the main ingredient is then dogshit. And you can’t be surprised when dogshit stew doesn’t taste good.

    Elections absolutely are rigged, which is why i don’t support voting and don’t partake, but it wasn’t always that way. it is a counterproductive activity, it supports and validates the corrupt system.

    yes, i am referring to the collective, the citizenry that is enslaved by this govt and owned by the politicians (look in the mirror, you are one of them just like I am).

    If you don’t fall into any of those groups you probably didn’t cause it but look teh fuck around, 7 our of every 10 strangers you meet do.
    you seem like you might be a dipshit so i will let the philosopher George Carlin sum it up:
    “the public sucks, fuck hope”

  29. @harry p. “yes, i am referring to the collective, the citizenry that is enslaved by this govt and owned by the politicians (look in the mirror, you are one of them just like I am).”

    Guess that statement makes you a dipshit, too, doesn’t it?

  30. Hillary Clinton as Grey Champion?
    Can’t thak the job as she is the Grim Reaper:
    Vince Foster
    Mary Mahoney
    John F. Kenedy, Jr.
    Chareles Ruff
    Tony Moser
    James McDougal
    John Mills
    Ron Miller
    Sandy Hume
    Daniel A. Dutko
    Admiral Jeremy Boorda
    William Colby
    Ron Brown
    dozens more

    Dan Kurt

  31. constantly being under the thumb of a oppresive govt doesn’t make you or me a dipshit.

    but thinking you are absolved becuase you are willing to pay your “fair share” of taxes (theft) sure does. you are allowing the idea that govt has a moral right something that you produce and is yours because they say so.
    part of our problem is teh constitution, IMO we likely would have been better off sticking with the Articles of Conf.

  32. Jeezus,

    How can anybody be so fucking stupid? What Punk is doing is called, in psychological terms, “projection”. It’s obvious to everyone this country needs an actual leader. Obama is a vacuous incompetent imbecile, unable to lead and incapable leadership. He’s a parasite, like all democrats, and the only mandate the democrats have is to push their agenda that destroys families, makes people dependent on the government, spends and borrows money they don’t have, and destroys the work ethic and soul of this country while fomenting a race and class war.

    And so, people like Punk and others feel a deep need for actual leadership to get us out of this mess, and project those hopes and aspirations onto somebody, in this case, Hillary Clinton. Projecting hopes and dreams and expectations that simply aren’t there in the person. It’s the same exact thing that happened with Obama. People wanted him to cause “hope” and “change” and lead us in the right direction. Well, look what we got instead, what he is in reality; a lying sack of shit socialist, and wanna be communist. He’s the worst president this country’s ever had, and has committed treason against this nation funding terrorists that are our enemies. He should have been impeached already.

    And this because dumbfuck millennials believed his lies and voted him into office twice. They projected their hopes and dreams on this anti-christ, just like they will (like Punk) project their hopes and dreams on Hillary. It’s insane, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The reality of what democrats have done to this country are plain for all to see, but that hasn’t stopped the retards from keep putting more democrats into office, election after election. And, just like Detroit, the end result will be the same, the bankruptcy of this nation, financially, morally, spiritually, ethically, and in fact. So, keep your hopes up, Punk, and every other moron, imbecile, millennial, and lazy fuck that wants more and bigger government and supports liberal progressive democrats. You’re signing your own death warrant, and the death warrant of all future generations.

  33. Harry P. – stop inferring things I did not say or imply. You are assuming here. I never said I was absolved of anything by paying taxes, nor do I believe the guv has a right to tax my labor.

    Actually I think we are in agreement in general (re: Articles of Confederation)…but don’t extrapolate on my comments.

  34. balzytch,
    I read through your comment and the first paragraph is spot on, but then i read the rest and have a simple question: did you even fucking read what punk wrote?

    punk didn’t endorse or make the case for why tw-unty mcbitch would be a good choice. he read a book, took aspects of that and applied to a possible scenario and explained why it might happen. much of the analysis was mostly devoid of biases; which is part of the reason it was such a pleasure to read.

    it seems like there are some real disphits on TBP today.



  35. Marc and Chelsea Mezvinsky……..yeah, so what?


    That mean Edward Mezvinsky is the father-in-law of the daughter of Hillary Clinton………yeah, so what?


    Ed Mezvinsky:

    1) former Democrat congressman of Iowa’s 1st congressional district for 2 terms 1973 – 1977

    2) decided Tricky Dick’s fate whilst sitting on the House Judiciary Committee

    3) was vocal about labeling Nixon not only a crook but also a disgrace to politics and the nation….and should be impeached

    4) was very chummy with the Clintons in addition to being entwined for years politically

    5) Ed banged NBC News reporter Marjorie Sue Margolies and later married her after he was given the boot by his wife who divorced him

    6) Marjorie, a freshman Democrat in Congress in 1993, got Prez Clinton’s vexed tax package passed in the House of Reps by casting the deciding vote

    7) In 2001 Ed was charged with bank fraud, mail fraud, and wire fraud…..he copped to 31 of the 69 counts

    8) Ed lined his pockets by absconding with $10 mill of other peoples’ money, courtesy of a Ponzi scheme and Nigerian email scams

    9) For those transgressions he got 80 months in the FBOP system of which he served < than 5; being released in 2008 and continues to be on probation to this day

    10) Still has an unpaid bill of $9.4 mill owed to his victims

    11) Marc and Chelsea bought a $10.5 mill NYC apartment. He's an investment banker. Apparently a kick-ass one to be able to take on a mortgage of that magnitude, right? Well Good luck kids!…….or should it be 'Mazel Tov!' ?

  36. Harry, Exactly! Glad to see the point of the article wasn’t lost on you. It was quite an exercise to write this thing without including the usual rhetoric. The first draft read like a resume for an application to be Gray Champion. Way too bland.

    Rise Up
    Your’re right, things aren’t in the voting public’s control. Fuck, I’m not even sure things are under the control of our elected leaders. I think they’re all running around Washington foaming at the mouth and snapping at each other like we do here on TBP. Look at the drivel Balzytch and AWD vomited onto this thread, imagine roughly 535 of those numbnuts running the country.

    Hang in there.

  37. Punk

    People are foaming at the mouth all over the globe these days. Look at Europe, it’s erupting or about to erupt. People are tired of immigration, socialism, being broke and poor, and being told what to do. The worse it gets, the more extreme the reaction. The same thing is happening here; the further people are pushed, the harder they are going to push back once they finally decide to get off their asses and do something about it. I think you have to choose a side, there won’t be much grey area, there isn’t now. Moral relativism is bullshit. Relativism in general has diluted our strength. I love how “it’s all out of our control”? Really? Is that why DHS just bought another 700 million rounds of ammunition? You’d have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to see what’s coming. That’s no way to go through life, wake up.

  38. AWD – the people are going to push back. To what end? When the Founding Fathers pushed back, there was a pretty clear goal they wanted to achieve.

    By and large people are running around rioting and pushing back with no goal in mind other than they are pissed and will not take it any more. That is accomplishing nothing. Six months later, they rinse and repeat. They are getting nowhere – hell, most often they get something worse than they had.

    Without clears goals in mind, nothing of value will be accomplished. And the sheeple have no clear goals. They are clueless. Being pissed off will get them nowhere.

    They need to determin what they want, or get some leaders that can provide them with actual leadership, and help create a plan for what they want. For me, a return to the principles of the Constitution would suffice. But that is highly unlikely that they will find any decent leaders. Most likely there will be a long period of unrest, and then perhaps real leaders will step up. I do not believe that real leaders will develop in the current circumstances. The sheeple have not as yet felt enough pain, and real leaders will be howled down at best at the moment.

  39. There are leaders who still believe in the Constitution. Who’s getting the most attention? Who’s being targeted by the IRS and Justice Department? Who’s always on the lips of the insane liberal progressives? The Tea Party. Even the Republicans are allowing the IRS to terrorize the Tea Party because they don’t want to share power with the Tea Party. Cruz, Rand Paul are top on their list. Rand Paul is putting forward a lawsuit against the NSA. They are taking steps, but being shouted down at every turn, or the ultimate insult “racist”.

    People are angry, fed up, the gloves are going to come off sooner or later. The Feds are gearing up for a social uprising, a civil war, training to go after Americans who have done nothing wrong except support the constitution and bill of rights. The FBI, DHS, TSA, they’re all waiting for a white mob to pop up so they can be crushed. The Feds aren’t concerned with black on white crime, bankster crimes, the attorney general and president committing crimes. They’re going to go after patriots, white “terrorists” that support the constitution.

    More people claim to be independents now than Republicans or Democrats. Even 70% of Obama voters regret that they voted for the idiot. It’s time for a change, but do you think Obama, Hillary, Bohner, Pelosi and Reid are just going to give up? Never. Not without a fight. People are just sick and tired of the crap coming out of Washington, and every other capital around the world. There are political parties in all the EU countries trying to ditch the EU, trying to stop immigration, trying to get out from under the debt and oppression. They have the guts to protest and fight, we don’t, not yet. Nothing is going to happen until the economy collapses. When the economy implodes it will finally push people out of their desperation and sloth into doing something. There are liberty and freedom minded people that can lead. A majority of voters already believe we need a third party in this country. It will come to a head sooner or later. We can’t continue down the path we’re on. It’s a dead end, literally.

    We can be patriots or subjugated, broke, taxed to death servants of the ruling socialist party and elites, what’s it gonna be?


  40. AWD
    Second line in my intro.
    “Each party’s claims to be more ethical and virtuous than the other ring hollow in light of decades of dysfunction.”

    I can’t pick a side in good conscience. I have a few things that I believe are right but I don’t see anyone to actually represent them. The “tea party” is full of shit. I MIGHT believe that all the 2010 elects (that is who your’re talking about, right?) are playing the whole go along to get along game until financing falls apart, waiting for popularity to swing their way. That would be a hard case to make, though.

    I don’t think relativism has sapped our strength, I thing rigid idealism has. Guess that’s the story of our times, huh?

  41. Hilary Clinton has voted for many, evil, things, and thrown her support behind god knows how may others.

    She has made public assertions that SHE can get the UN Small Arms Treaty (confiscation) followed by the US, WITHOUT ratification by CONgress.

    She is evil to her core, and will bring upon the dark side of the turning, I have no doubt.

    And that is only if the Great and Powerful O doesn’t declare himself king and elections are halted.

    The only positive thing is that to the likes of Rachel Maddox and Chris Matthews, if you don’t vote for her, or agree with her, or defend her atrocities and her shredding of the Constitution, you will no longer be racist, you will just be a garden variety misogynist and chauvinist.

    Unless, of course, that the VP is the likes of Michele or even a reformed (for the good of the country) Condaleeza(sp?).

    Oh the beauty of that ticket.

    Anyway, beautifully written Punk, and thanks.

  42. In her own words, ” What difference at this point does it make?!!!!” She is an abhorrent shrew, NOT a grey champion. She is absolute filth…not fit to be considered human! She is EVIL INCARNATE without question.


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