Observations From Dallas, Part Deaux. Or, Conversation With A Millennial


Posted on 21st February 2014 by Tim in Economy

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One of the things I did not mention in my recent post about our transition to Dallas is my current living arrangement. It was not germane to the topic last time, but now it becomes necessary for me to share with you the back story.

When I was 18 and living in rural Oklahoma, my dad and his then wife (Wife #2 for those keeping score at home) adopted a baby boy. They could not have children of their own and after many years of trying, were finally able to adopt a newborn infant. Interestingly, within a year of this milestone event, they were divorced. I probably did not have this thought as a conscious thought, but at some intuitive level I understood that my dad was not going to be there for this baby. I made it a point to stay involved in his life over these last 25 years. When I was in college, about 1 weekend per month, I’d drive to Tulsa and stay the weekend with him and do what I could with him, within my meager means. He still remembers the time we made a racetrack in the backyard for his RC Cars. After college, I got married and moved to Corpus Christi, TX. My wife and I would fly him in and we’d go to San Antonio to Six Flags or to Corpus and spend the weekend at the beach. Because of our love of roller coasters, he has mentioned that it was us who introduced him, and are responsible for, his love of the adrenaline rush.

The point is, he’s not a stranger off the street. Now, he’s a young man, with a successful career in the IT world. He’s making some pretty decent jack, and the company he works for sends him all over the world, doing IT stuff. I think his job is to make sure the flux capacitor is integrated with the ion modulator. Or something like that. He’s got a nice young lady friend he seems quite smitten with.

Now, on with the story: When I planned this move to Dallas, leaving wife and kids behind in El Paso to finish the school year, I did not want to rent a place. Frankly, this move is costing us, big time. We’re hemorrhaging money at every turn. In order to cut down on expenses, I called him up and said, “Hey, dude. I’m moving to Dallas, can I stay with you?” To which he responded, “All I’ve got is a couch, but you can use it for as long as you want.” Hell, I haven’t crashed out on somebody’s couch in 25 years, so I thought it’d be fun. And it is. We’ve joined a group called Makerspace, which is a community owned workshop, and he’s building a new desk. I’m the Transporter Of The Lumber, since I have a truck and he doesn’t. He’s building it, and it looks nice. He kicked me out on Valentine’s Day, which was cool, also. I remember being young & smitten with my wife. Nice. And we’ve drank a lot of beer. Dear God, have we drank some beers! He chastised me just last night for taking more than my fair share of the 12 pack in the fridge. To which I responded, “We’ll get more.”

Here’s a quick summary: Me: 42 years old. Married, 3 kids. Construction supervisor. In the midst of a move which is more than just a little stressful. Politics: Political atheist, with extreme libertarian tendencies, bordering on anarchism. My little brother: 25, single with a girlfriend. Making good money setting up computer networks. Politics unknown.

Last night, over burgers and beer (Twisted Root Burgers: Epic Win!) he let me have it, and how! He gave it to me with both barrels. I don’t even remember exactly how it got started. I don’t really like to talk politics, and I’m certainly no apologist for ANY political party. I’ve come to my views based on my own research. People can do their own research and listen to the same podcasts and watch the same videos I have. The information is out there. So, I assume he must have bought it up. Maybe it was the beer flowing, or maybe he’s just passionate about the topic. Actually, there’s no “maybe” to it. He’s passionate about the topic. And I don’t know that he speaks for an entire generation of millennial. He’s the only Minnie I know. To say he’s a left-leaning liberal is an understatement. He’s a statist. Plain and simple, he thinks Government is the solution to the world’s problems. So much of what he said rankled me so bad, I had to take deep breaths. I didn’t want to try and “convert” him to my way of thinking, so much as I wanted to try and understand his position. So, instead of countering his every point with a counter-point, I asked a lot of questions. Here’s a brief recap of some of his major points:

  • Everybody should be paid a living wage. Everybody. I mean every single solitary citizen of America should receive money to a certain level. To make sure I understood his point, I used hyperbole to make the extreme case. So, yes, even the gang-bangers in South Dallas should receive a living wage. The street artist should receive a subsidy to make up whatever difference his art sales should not generate. When asked where this money will come from, he responded, Higher taxes. A heavier, much heavier tax burden on the rest of us. Somehow, in this system, I will have a salary 3x higher than what I make now, so I should be more willing to pay more taxes. When asked again where this money will come, I was unclear how I was going to make more money and pay more taxes.
  • Also, in his utopian vision, somehow, this payment of a living wage to the gang-bangers eliminates the generational cycle of crime & poverty. I agree whole-heartedly with reducing this cycle, but I am unclear on how giving people money for doing nothing will do this. Don’t we have a system like that in place now?
  • He said that Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but Obama and the Democrats are too weak-willed to really accomplish anything substantive. A totally comprehensive Government health care system is the solution. Nobody should be able to make a profit when it comes to taking care of the health needs of the people. When the profit motive becomes involved in better health for humanity, then the whole process gets corrupted. He used the example of a study that demonstrated that a saline bag costs $0.39 to manufacture and it shows up on your hospital bill for $800 bucks.
  • He correlated the greatest growth period in America in the 50’s & 60’s, which also had the highest tax rates in history. So, apparently, high tax rates = high economic growth.
  • The Post Office could generate money hand over fist, if only they could make their own decisions. But, any time they make decisions for them, then they lose money. (Loosely, I think “they” is the post office people, and “they” on the other hand is Congress.) I had a hard time trying to explain that “They” are both the same people: Government Drones.
  • He set up as a model systems the various statist countries around the world: Spain, France, and course, the Scandinavian countries. I didn’t explain to him that most of Europe is in flames, and what isn’t burning now, will be aflame soon enough. I don’t have any idea how the statism of the Scandinavian countries.
  • The Republican Party is in place for the express purpose of serving the rich. When asked if the Democrats weren’t simply another side of the same coin, he agreed, and stated that the Democratic Party does not have the strength or will to pass really meaningful legislation. I thought of Nancy Pelosi’s remark about “passing a law to see what’s in it.” Seems pretty strong-willed to me.
  • He supports the 2nd Amendment. I told him the left wants to take away his guns, he agreed and said he disagrees with the Democrats on that issue. That’s all I’m going to say on that item.
  • He said that there should be a minimum wage of $20-$25 per hour. Even for burger flippers. When asked what that will do to the price of a burger, he said it will stay the same and the evil burger corporations (And I might agree that the giant burger corporations are, in fact, evil) will take that out of their profit margin. Because no one has the right to charge $6-7 bucks on a burger that costs them $.20 to make.
  • Apparently, in the IT world, a company will profit some 3x the amount they pay a worker and that’s not fair. I tried to explain that the reason the construction company I work for is profitable is because they make more money using me than they have to pay me. They agreed to pay me x. I agreed to work for x. If I wanted a different deal, then I should have not agreed to work for x. If I wanted to take the risk and put in the time and energy to run a construction company, I would have done that. I don’t want to do that, so I agree to work for someone who did want to do that. Presumably, it’s the same thing in the IT world. He said the same opportunities don’t exist today that existed then and it’s harder for people to start a business. I agreed that starting a business now is probably very much more difficult today then it was “then.” (Due to the Government!!) (Now, at this point, a little light bulb is starting to go off in my head.)
  • It’s the Boomers fault. The generation that had the greatest opportunity in the history of the world has taken that opportunity, turned it upside down, and fucked the upcoming generations. (DING, DING, DING! We have a winner!)

There’s more, but you get the general gist of it. It was basically a model of more statism for more solutions to the worlds problems and to take care of people. Look, he’s a smart guy. He’s a computer guy. He’s making good money, and he’s traveling the world. He’s studied, at least to some level, this information. Some of it sounded like sound bites he quoted from another source; Maybe something he heard and liked. He had facts & figures in his head and cited studies to prove-up his points. I can’t disprove the Scandinavian countries models work, because I’ve never been there. But I’ve never seen something that the Government didn’t touch that they didn’t fuck up.

Here’s my takeaway from this. (Here’s where I’m going to go out on a limb. I don’t know Stephanie, and I don’t have anything against her or her writing. But from reading her work and talking to my little brother, I’m going to lump all millenials into a cohesive group, and use the word “they” from now on.)

They know something’s wrong. They see it, they feel it, they live it. Shit is fucked-up and bullshit. But, the see it and draw the wrong conclusion. It’s like they see half the equation correctly, and get the answer wrong. I had to agree with half of his premises. We’re waging unjust wars around the globe, and not taking very good care of our people here. Our current healthcare system sucks. Our education system sucks. (We talked about the student loan debt load, too.) America, once the freest country in the world, is no longer small-business friendly, while at the same time, favoring the large corporations. No one has been indicted in the scandals of the 2008 crash. Our elected officials are criminals, serving only those who donated enough money to get them elected and then seeking re-election. As human beings, we should take care of one another. We don’t do a very good job at that. All these points we were in agreement on.

It’s the solution where we disagree. As a libertarian/anarchist, I think it’s up to every human being to take care of him/her self. (I think men have a special role in this, but that’s a post for another day.) If someone wants to reach out and lend a hand up to someone who is down and out, that’s a beautiful thing, BUT I SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO DO IT AT THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE! And the state IS violence. There can be no mistaking that.

For some reason, the minnies don’t get that. Is it the claptrap they teach them at school? Do they pick this up from their peer group? From the media? The internet?
How can anyone at this point, seeing how fucked up things really are in the world, think that Government is possibly the answer to ANY of our societal problems? I think that the overall trend is going to be MORE statism in the future, not less. LESS freedom, not more. I don’t think, at this point, that there will be any reversing this train until it runs off the rails, collapses, runs into a brick wall and explodes in flames. God help us all.

I love you, bro.

  1. AWD says:

    Socialism/communism/statism sounds great to people that have been programmed, by a liberal progressive education system, to believe the government can provide these things for people. The government can’t run anything properly. A recent study found they pay out more than $100 billion in fictitious and fraudulently obtained money every year. The 30 million union government drones are of dull-normal intelligence, and are rewarded for incompetence.

    Every endeavor the government (and the unions that support the government) touch ends in failure. The government is a black hole, sucking up productive resources and squandering them. But, for some reason, the imbecile millennials believe that the government isn’t doing enough, and should control more of our lives than they already do. Communism sounds great in theory, but in practice it impoverishes the masses, while the leaders siphon off every last productive asset. Pretty soon, ALL the people are in poverty, starving, waiting for their government handouts, and being told what to do every second of their lives. It’s truly scary, the beliefs of the millennials. Truly scary they voted Obama into office, twice. Truly scary they are going to lead this country down the path of communism. We’re already half way there, and they’ll finish us off. I’m glad I’ll be dead soon.

    21st February 2014 at 2:00 pm

  2. bb says:

    AWD ,Don’t die to soon .There is still a lot coming that you don’t want to miss.Like grandkids.

    21st February 2014 at 2:20 pm

  3. Olga says:

    As a 54 year old mother of three minnies I would have to say that it’s the public educational system and it’s promotion of a certain level of “collectivism” – everyone gets a trophy – mentality. I didn’t agree with it but by the time I realized what was going on it was too late.

    I would ask what does societal evolution look like to you – if everything were as you wish – what does “America” look like in 100 years? 200 years? 500 years?

    How do we bounce back from a Republic we were not strong enough to hold on to?

    How do we recover the wealth and GDP that was intentionally moved to the East?

    How do we pry the giant squid’s tentacles from every facet of our lives?

    How do we move forward when the bulk of politicians and judges are sold to the highest bidder, with corporations successfully lobbying for the death of small businesses and family farms, with Universities milking the last vestiges of wealth from a formerly proud and acutely desperate middle class.

    And now the minnies see the façade, the hollowed out shell of a once great country, they see the possibilities that were not allowed to manifest because the greediest of the greedy within the boomers / silent / GI’s raped and pillaged and got theirs while the getting was good.

    “They” (not the boomers) took out JFK and “they” have been running things ever since and it certainly has not been for the benefit of “we the people”.

    This country was supposed to be the grand experiment – and perhaps for a while it worked – but we were no match for the generational evil of bankers and parasites who have successfully bribed their way into most governments so as to strip-mine and harvest this nation’s wealth.

    So bless their little minnie hearts for at least thinking about someone other than themselves and taking the time to ponder things the “could be”. Maybe with luck and age and experience they might yet receive an epiphany – maybe they will have the foresight and ability to remove the greedy, power-hungry sociopaths from control and put things right.

    But really – apparently the “grand experiment” didn’t have all the answers or we wouldn’t be where we are now – so perhaps it’s time for Plan “B”.

    My two cents.

    21st February 2014 at 2:23 pm

  4. TPC says:

    @Tim – “For some reason, the minnies don’t get that.”

    Unfortunately, Tim’s assessment of millenials is fairly spot on…..as much as I hate to admit it. The disenfranchisement of the youth of America is ultimately where the will to change will come from.

    “Qualities of the Revolutionary Leader: audacity and a joy in defiance; an iron will; a fanatical conviction that he is in possession of the one and only truth; faith in his destiny and luck; a capacity for passionate hatred; contempt for the present; a cunning estimate of human nature; a delight in symbols; unbounded brazenness which finds expression in a disregard of consistency and fairness; a recognition that the innermost craving of a following is for communion…; a capacity for winning and holding the utmost loyalty of a group of able lieutenants.”

    – Eric Hoffer, The True Believer p. 112

    Hoffer has lain out what I believe our next leader will be like. The only major question is what direction they take the country.

    It would be nice to break the cycle, but I really don’t think a modern day Renaissance will occur until after a large scale nuclear war….a nuclear dark ages so to speak.

    Until then? Look forward to more of this:


    21st February 2014 at 2:28 pm

  5. bb says:

    TIM ,you said you a libertarian/anarchist….Your brother is a liberal /progressive….ever stop to think that maybe you are both IDIOTS.I bet you think both political parties are the same.RIGHT.?And you being a political atheist is probability the reason your brother is a liberal .MEATHEAD

    21st February 2014 at 2:37 pm

  6. underfire says:

    Your brother has a good paying job, a girlfriend and rosy prospects. How would that job and those prospects look if the powers weren’t pumping a trillion a year or so of borrowed or printed money into this economy? Or make that more like 5-6 trillion due to liabilities the Gov. isn’t funding. Or how would the welfare state be doing now if it wasn’t for massive deficit spending?

    He like most people don’t worry about that because that cost is being passed onto someone else, namely generations hopefully on down the road. Same old crap, somethings never change.

    21st February 2014 at 2:37 pm

  7. Tim says:

    wow. bb calls ME a meathead. I don’t know whether to offended or flattered.

    21st February 2014 at 2:42 pm

  8. AWD says:

    To low information imbeciles, communism sounds like a great idea…


    21st February 2014 at 2:49 pm

  9. Westcoaster says:

    So, on the one hand the Millennials are pissed off and have 1/2 of it right, because they sense/know things are fucked up and there’s too much bullshit. On the other hand, the Tea-partiers are also pissed off, but for all the wrong reasons (watching too much Fox news).
    At some point, perhaps the two divides will converge, and we’ll achieve getting the money out of politics. When that happens perhaps whatever government evolves will actually serve the people, not the corporations and .1%, which as I see it is a large percentage of the problems we face today.

    21st February 2014 at 2:50 pm

  10. bb says:

    TPC ,So you want to have a little girl,bless your heart.How could you be so damn foolish unless you plan on selling her to the ARABS.They will pay top dollar for little white girls or you could sell her for her organs and make a lot of money but why put yourself in that situation.The truth is you are going to be poor sooner then you think and you and your millenials want be so brave when your laying in a pool of your own blood thanks to government snipers.You millenials are not going to do a damn thing except get yourselves killed .TRUTH is you have no hope and no future .YOUR future has a 100 year second mortgage on it and it will be paid in blood.NO NEED TO THANK ME

    21st February 2014 at 3:01 pm

  11. bb says:

    TIM , I thought you were ok until you told us what you are.It is hard for me to hide my comtempt.YOU are part of the problem.Do you vote or have you ever?

    21st February 2014 at 3:15 pm

  12. Tim says:

    I used to vote, until, of course, I became a political atheist. Now, I don’t believe in voting.

    21st February 2014 at 3:21 pm

  13. TPC says:

    @bb – I will never be poor again, if I have to poach deer and garden to keep food on the table, so be it. People have lived in worse situations than I am proposing, and with my wife by my side and resolve in our blood come hell or high water we will succeed.

    I’m not known for failure, if I have to pack my wife on my back and hike to greener pasture, I will do it and consider myself blessed for it.

    You are a defeatist.

    21st February 2014 at 3:24 pm

  14. Thinker says:

    I’m going to add agreement to the “most Millennials think this way” comments already posted. I’ve been studying some recent survey research and it’s becoming more clear that any societal direction they take will involve greater government control, less privacy and individual rights, more collective behavior. Not unlike that kid who wrote the Rolling Stone piece, they seem to advocate for communist ideals — no one is allowed to own land, companies, factories. They’re supposed to be owned by the workers, collectively, so everyone gets the benefit of their own output.

    Like you said, Tim, it’s such a WRONG answer to the problem you don’t know whether to laugh or cry. It’s staggering to read this kind of stupidity. And when you try to tell them why it doesn’t work that way, they claim, “the world is different now” or, “you lived during some of the best years, you’re responsible for the mess we have to live through.” No matter that things were actually worse… they just don’t get it that they’ve been overprotected all their lives and taught that they’re entitled to whatever they want without having to work for it.

    It is very likely that our 4T will continue down the path that’s already been established. Already, Millennials are heavily in favor of Hillary Clinton in 2014. There is simply no way to to convince them that the track they’re on will mean more pain, not this utopia they think it will result in.

    And those that point to the “success” of the Nordic / Scandinavian system simply haven’t looked at the research.

    21st February 2014 at 3:30 pm

  15. Stucky says:

    “For some reason, the minnies don’t get that. Is it the claptrap they teach them at school? Do they pick this up from their peer group? From the media? The internet?” ——————- from the article

    Damn good question! I’ll tell you. I don’t know. My own two Millie kids have political beliefs quite opposite of mine. I sure as hell didn’t raise them that way.

    How did you and your brother turn out so different? Me? I have a tree-hugging ultra libtard seester … I’m pretty sure we were raised in the same environment.

    I went to OWS in NYC and followed that movement closely for a while. I loved their anti 1% stance and a few other things. But the absolute fact of the matter is that most of these Millies looked to Big Government, More Government as the answer.

    Yup. I don’t know jack shit. I have more questions than answers. But, if I were forced to guess, I would say Shit TV and Absurd Social Media Horseshit play a major role.

    Great writing! Appreciate your making the time and effort.

    21st February 2014 at 3:31 pm

  16. bb says:

    Good grief , you do realize when the dollar collapses your career in construction will be over for the rest of your life.It’s just hard for me to understand how people could have this …I don’t know and I don’t care…attitude toward politics.Your brother will really need your help when his big government utopian ideas are crushed .Hey ,for what it’s worth ,try to take care of him.You will be glad you did.

    21st February 2014 at 3:36 pm

  17. Thinker says:

    2016, dammit.

    And TPC, don’t mean to lump you into that “most Millennials” bucket… you and Rose are a few of the ones around here with heads squarely on their shoulders.

    21st February 2014 at 3:37 pm

  18. Olga says:

    With the demise of small businesses and family farms where are the role models for the minnies to observe real-time the independence and entrepreneurship that made this county?

    Perhaps there was a psychological reason a nation that desired “workers” (not thinkers) got rid of as many of the small businesses as possible.

    If all you see are massive corporations and government drones what is the take-away message?

    21st February 2014 at 3:42 pm

  19. TPC says:

    @Thinker – ” And when you try to tell them why it doesn’t work that way, they claim, “the world is different now” or, “you lived during some of the best years, you’re responsible for the mess we have to live through.””

    Thats why I gain so much traction, I’ve been by their side the whole way. I just rose further.

    To say my plate is full professionally is to be modest, my company knows I’m a bargain and works me like a mule.

    My goal is (ultimately) to make enough as a 20 hour a week contractor that I can afford to start writing like Quinn and actually start reaching people.

    21st February 2014 at 3:43 pm

  20. bb says:

    TPC ,good luck with that carrying your wife nonsense..I live in reality and reality is hard.I have good idea of what is going to happen and how the government is going to respond.You.are living in a dream world that will be shattered in a million pieces.This life is going to get harder then any of us could imagine.Most of us will be lucky to survive the first year.Good luck.

    21st February 2014 at 3:48 pm

  21. Rise Up says:

    @bb, who asks “I bet you think both political parties are the same?”. Well, yes, they are more similar than you’d think. That’s why Goldman Sachs contributes big money to both parties, to ensure they have bought whoever wins the presidential election.

    The naivety of these millies is stunning. And frightening.

    @TPC, that picture is excellent–revolving leaders (“meet the new boss, same as the old boss”)…but that description by Eric Hoffer could also apply to Obama, no?

    21st February 2014 at 3:51 pm

  22. Olga says:

    Am I the only here who suspects bb of being a deliberate troll?

    What other kind of troll would TBP, with INTJ’s galore, require to distract and derail and irritate visitors – other than a parroting troll jumping into any substantial conversation to spew useless garbage, foster disruption and destroy any coherent thread?

    I find his energy suspicious and subversive.

    21st February 2014 at 3:58 pm

  23. Tim says:

    @ bb: Good grief , you do realize when the dollar collapses your career in construction will be over for the rest of your life.It’s just hard for me to understand how people could have this …I don’t know and I don’t care…attitude toward politics.Your brother will really need your help when his big government utopian ideas are crushed .Hey ,for what it’s worth ,try to take care of him.You will be glad you did.

    bb – More than you know I’m aware of that fact. I’m ACUTELY aware of it. I’m not sure I made my point in Dallas Observation #1. The INSTANT these developers have money problems, they shut the job down. I think about it every day. I’ve written some other posts about prepping, but I assure you, a large part of my mental energy goes into “if…then” scenarios.

    It’s unfair to say I have a don’t know/don’t care attitude about politics. It’s more along the lines of “both parties ARE the same” and if you think the D’s are Gods and the R’s are Devils (or vice-versa) then THAT’S part of the problem. It is my OPINION that nothing will change until the entire system crashes. To put an analogy into place, the drunk doesn’t seek help until he’s laying face down in the gutter in a puddle of his own puke. Rock bottom, in other words. People don’t want to change until they have NO OTHER CHOICE. To think it’s going to matter if you vote in/out Obama/McCain/Romney/Clinton/McGillicuddy is a fool’s errand. The system is stacked too heavily against you. I may go check the “Libertarian” box on election day.

    I would never let any of my family/friends/neighbors go hungry if there is anything I can do about it. I have several buckets & cans stored with long-term food. Despite what my personal opinions may be about you, bb, if you came to my house hungry asking for food, I would gladly give you a can of my dried apples I got from the LDS cannery. We’d make apple pancakes from the flour and sugar I’ve got in buckets along with some fresh eggs from the henhouse and we’d drink some homebrew to cap off the day. I certainly would not let my brother go hungry.

    21st February 2014 at 3:58 pm

  24. Bostonbob says:

    You are much kinder than I.

    21st February 2014 at 4:08 pm

  25. Stucky says:

    I would starve bb, cut off his balls with a dull rusty knife, stuff that down his throat, and then kick out all his teeth.

    On the second day, I would ….

    21st February 2014 at 4:12 pm

  26. TPC says:

    @Rise up – Obama wanted to be “that guy” described by Hoffer, but ultimately he’s too lazy by half. The guy is a pretender to the throne, as will be Hillary Clinton.

    The only thing they believe in is themself, Hillary to be the most powerful woman on earth, and Obama to be the most powerful “black guy” on earth.

    You’ll know who the leader will be by their followers and their message. Obama flip flopped back and forth like a fish out of water. He just wanted to make the masses happy so he could get his payday and then get out of dodge.

    Hillary just wants her own legacy. Her message reflects that.

    21st February 2014 at 4:36 pm

  27. M111ark says:

    As much as I despise Pelosi, she really said, “we need to pass this so YOU can see what’s in it.” But that’s not nearly as juicy for the thug republicons so they made up the quote that everybody seems to remember.

    I can agree with most of your brothers points except the minimum wage. I suspect that fully 90% of the people agree that ‘shit is fucked up’ but few understand what’s really happening or why, it’s certainly not as simple as dems vs repubs. To understand you have to first comprehend the nature of debt-money; that alone will give you a leg up on 99% of the people. Then you’ll understand who is the real enemy though it will still seem an impossible fight. It’s one sided web sites like this one that will give you an incorrect view of the world… never believe that you’ve finally found THE answer, you haven’t, I haven’t, no one has, but we can get closer every day we keep learning.

    21st February 2014 at 4:44 pm

  28. Thinker says:

    You are so right, TPC. But until you can get your generation to ask the right questions, to actually look into the candidates’ decision-making process, to see if their actions bespeak their words — and ignore the MSM attempts to obfuscate all that — Millennials will continue to vote with a herd mentality.

    That may sound bad, but Civic generations tend to go with consensus views, without establishing why the consensus exists. Forgive us cynical Xers, but it’s infuriating to watch, as much as we like you guys.

    21st February 2014 at 4:46 pm

  29. IndenturedServant says:

    Tim, great post! Thanks for making it.

    The minnies were all taught to believe this shit in school. Their peer group, the media and the internet all reinforce this shit. We were all manipulated to some degree including boomers & X’ers but I believe each successive generation is manipulated to a greater degree.

    Like you I think that I have known intuitively, all my life that the govt is fucked up. I was raised fairly conservative but there was never any talk of politics during my upbringing. My parents just lived their lives a certain way which I came to know as Conservative. I never put a minute of thought into it really when I voted republican, it was just much closer to my views than the democrats.

    The last 7 years or so (I’m 47) have been quite a revelation for me. I’ve made a 270 degree turn rejecting the republican bullshit while looking more closely at the democrats in case I missed something with my earlier dismissal of them but ultimately re-rejecting them as well before landing on hard core Libertarian.

    Now think about how old I am and how old most people are before they enter the “political” phase of their lives. The vast majority of minnies have not done that yet. Sure, I had political beliefs as a younger man as do the minnies but it takes time and hands on experience to examine and experience the true nature of politics.

    The way I try to explain it to anyone who is willing to look into it themselves is that democrats and republicans are the opposing jaws of of the same bear trap and we are the bait in the middle. Regardless of which party occupied the WH or controlled the house or senate, the country has been on a continuous, ever steepening decline for several generations. Minnies unfortunately believe that everything was wine and roses for every previous generation.

    Changing the lifelong, ingrained beliefs of anyone is a tall order. Our owners have trained the children of America well.

    21st February 2014 at 4:51 pm

  30. Stucky says:

    “As much as I despise Pelosi, she really said, “we need to pass this so YOU can see what’s in it.” But that’s not nearly as juicy for the thug republicons so they made up the quote that everybody seems to remember” ———– M111ark

    Nice try at re-writing history, Grasshopper.

    YOU are putting the emphasis on Pelosi’s “you”. YOU … not her!! It’s is crystal clear that “you” does NOT refer to “us” only. It is a general all-inclusive group “you” ….. INCLUDING Congress.

    If you have an ax to grind, at least try to be accurate.

    21st February 2014 at 4:59 pm

  31. Rise Up says:

    @TPC your comment back to me at 4:36–agree 100%, and I think those leadership qualities described by Hoffer could be used positively or negatively. The latter in Obama’s case, although it sure rallies his “base”.

    21st February 2014 at 5:07 pm

  32. Punk in Drublic says:

    I think a large part of this attitude is due to never having known a government with a spending limit. All the government spending battles that millennials have seen in their lifetimes have been over what to spend our limitless supply of money on.

    Why would they think otherwise?

    The only talk of spending cuts are proposed by Republicans, who never seem to include cuts to the defense budget, making them look doubly like assholes.

    The millennial wishlist will never be fulfilled. Not because it’s wrong, because it involves a false premise: That there is no limit to government spending.

    21st February 2014 at 5:14 pm

  33. IndenturedServant says:

    Olga said:
    “Am I the only here who suspects bb of being a deliberate troll?”

    I feel exactly the same way about your entire comment. I hate censorship and all but bb, IMO desrves to be banned from this site. I’d rather have a giant boil on my ass than have bb the ignorant tubesteak around. He is the very definition of ASS CLOWN. Look it up!

    21st February 2014 at 5:16 pm

  34. IndenturedServant says:

    Stucky says:
    “I would starve bb, cut off his balls with a dull rusty knife, stuff that down his throat, and then kick out all his teeth.

    On the second day, I would ….”

    +10,000 Stcukster! Absolutely dead on!

    21st February 2014 at 5:19 pm

  35. Llpoh says:

    Tim, your brother is an idiot.

    Tim, you are an idiot for arguing with bb.

    21st February 2014 at 5:27 pm

  36. Llpoh says:

    But thanks for the article.

    21st February 2014 at 5:28 pm

  37. Llpoh says:

    Tim’s brother’s attitude is why I keep saying the uprisings are not working and will not work. They do not know what to replace the current system with.

    We may be heading into a very long fourth turning. Remember the dark ages?

    21st February 2014 at 5:34 pm

  38. Welshman says:


    You are correct about bb.

    The reset button is not even close to 100 years off, at 54 y.o. you will most likely see it in your lifetime,

    We are going beat the Romans by 626 years to the end of empire give or take..

    21st February 2014 at 5:50 pm

  39. Wyoming Mike says:

    BostonBob = BB, hmmm…

    21st February 2014 at 6:04 pm

  40. Welshman says:


    Yes you are to kind to bb, really.

    I enjoyed you salty posts about El Paso and how to grow things. The Dallas post was good also, and hope the wife will be happier in Dallas, should not that be the case, we can lend you AWD for a long weekend. He could unload 10% of his thug shit on her, and your marriage would be smooth sailing.

    Yes Millennials are special, and believe it or not, many are quite fond of Ron Paul. But you see who the POTUS is, and they put him there 2X.

    21st February 2014 at 6:11 pm

  41. Iska Waran says:


    I am sorry to hear that your brother is a libtard. In most cases the condition is terminal, although there is hope since it’s been diagnosed relatively early. As Churchill said (approximately) “Whoever is not a liberal at 18 has no heart. Whoever is not a conservative at 40 has no brain.” Your brother may yet pull through, but it will have to be soon. I, too, have a libtard brother. He actually lives in DC and makes a living skimming off the government money that flows to NGO’s. He’s a big proponent of everything being “free”. He once complained about how the US “subsidizes” gasoline because we only tax it to the tune of $1/gallon instead of $6/gallon like European countries. That’s when I realized that I have no hope of reasoning with him. I think of a light switch as turning on a light. He apparently thinks of it as turning off the dark. He thinks the way to cut college costs is to subsidize them even more. Because that’s worked so well the last 30 years. They don’t make the connection between, for example, the state making it hard to fire someone and youth unemployment being 58% in Spain. The coup de grace was when he – despite his six figure income – got a $2,500 grant from the District of Columbia to put a sprinkler system in the 12′ X 12′ front yard of his townhouse. That there was even some department in DC handing out such grants is a sure sign of the Apocalypse. You can’t reason with libtards, though. As Woody Allen said “the heart wants what the heart wants”. Lastly, this brother of mine is the only person I know to vote twice in the same election (because he knew he was registered at two addresses). Of course he’s staunchly against voter ID, since voter fraud is merely some right wing myth. I don’t think his voting twice caused him even an instant of hesitation. He was simply helping that which was right. That’s how libtards roll. Ends justify the means.

    21st February 2014 at 6:13 pm

  42. IndenturedServant says:

    Llpoh said:
    “We may be heading into a very long fourth turning. Remember the dark ages?”

    You may be far more right than wrong llpoh. If you had read the long article (interview actually) with the founder of Mother Earth News magazine, that is basically what is coming our way…..a return to the Dark Ages. The founder basically predicted nearly all of the shit we are facing today back in 1975 or earlier. His conclusions were based on an author who wrote a book in the 1950′s. That guy reckoned that the reason why the dark ages lasted so long was that there was no more frontier to explore, expand and exploit until N. & S. America were discovered. Prior to that all the known land and resources were already owned and controlled by the .01%. The prosperous times the world has experienced from the end of the dark ages until now was all based on the exploration, expansion and exploitation of the newly discovered “west”. That is now coming to an end in the exact same way the Dark Ages began. All the land, resources and wealth are being concentrated in the exact same way they were back then. The trouble is, there really is no viable new frontier to bring us out of the coming dark ages. It’s gonna get ugly and stay ugly for a very long time unless we redistribute the wealth of the .01%. Even though doing that would be relatively easy, the leaders of that redistribution will likely become the new .01%.

    21st February 2014 at 6:33 pm

  43. Olga says:


    I read that very article several weeks ago and wanted to share it with a friend and can’t find it – help?

    21st February 2014 at 6:45 pm

  44. bb says:

    I S ,all I.am doing is trying to get people to think.Everyone has been nice to Tim with no.one asking any real questions.I provoke ,I punch ,I kick and usually people respond like Tim.I know he has no solutions to any problems because he is an anarchist.He is happy just let it all burn.
    I S ,if you can’t handle my joking and kidding then maybe you are the one that should leave.If you can’t take the little I toss your way ,what are you going to do when the SHTF.

    Ilpoh ,it not good arguing with.me because I am right most of the time.You are wise Injun and that’s why I respect you.

    Bastonbob….blow me!!!!!!

    21st February 2014 at 6:45 pm

  45. Olga says:


    I find it interesting that you didn’t address the one person that called you out – me – why is that?

    21st February 2014 at 6:48 pm

  46. doosh says:

    on the second day i would shit down his throat – then throw him into the phone booth with the mountain lion

    21st February 2014 at 6:54 pm

  47. Billy says:

    Hey Tim..

    If your brother is having trouble figuring out who will actually, you know, PAY for all this utopia, you should introduce him to Bistromathics and, of course, the Infinite Improbability Drive.

    Of course, if he actually, you know, USED Bistromathics or the IID to figure out how to pay for his utopia, I think the US would suffer massive spontaneous existence failure and just implode…

    Tell him “Good luck with that” from me, personally…


    21st February 2014 at 6:55 pm

  48. Stucky says:

    Don’t forget the barbed wire, doosh.

    21st February 2014 at 6:57 pm

  49. Billy says:

    For those of you who have no idea what Bistromathics actually is, I offer this:


    The most powerful computational force known to parascience. A major step up from the Infinite Improbability Drive, Bistromathics is a way of understanding the behavior of numbers. Just as Einstein observed that space was not an absolute, but depended on the observer’s movement in time, so it was realized that numbers are not absolute, but depend on the observer’s movement in restaurants.

    The first nonabsolute number is the number of people for whom the table is reserved. This will vary during the course of the first three telephone calls to the restaurant, and then bear no apparent relation to the number of people who actually turn up, or to the number of people who subsequently join them after the show/match/party/gig, or to the number of people who leave when they see who else has turned up.

    The second nonabsolute number is the given time of arrival, which is now known to be one of those most bizarre of mathematical concepts, a recipriversexclusion, a number whose existence can only be defined as being anything other than itself. In other words, the given time or arrival is the one moment of time at which it is impossible that any member of the party will arrive. Recipriversexclusions now play a vital part in many branches of math, including statistics and accountancy and also form the basic equations used to engineer the Somebody Else’s Problem field.

    The third and most mysterious piece of nonabsoluteness of all lies in the relationship between the number of items on the check, the cost of each item, the number of people at the table and what they are each prepared to pay for. (The number of people who have actually brought any money is only a subphenomenon in this field.)

    Numbers written on restaurant checks within the confines of restaurants do not follow the same mathematical laws as numbers written on any other pieces of paper in any other parts of the Universe..

    21st February 2014 at 7:02 pm

  50. Billy says:

    I just LOVE this part..

    ” A recipriversexclusion, a number whose existence can only be defined as being anything other than itself.”

    Followed by:

    “Recipriversexclusions now play a vital part in many branches of math, including statistics and accountancy and also form the basic equations used to engineer the Somebody Else’s Problem field.”

    Isn’t that the crux of socialism/communism?

    How are we gonna actually PAY for all this shit?

    Pay? Oh, that’s Somebody Else’s Problem, not mine… I just want my free shit.

    21st February 2014 at 7:06 pm

  51. bb says:

    Olga , tell me about yourself.I will know if you are …stupidity gone wild …or if there’s hope for you.

    21st February 2014 at 7:09 pm

  52. Olga says:

    I have been called a lot of things over the years but “stupidity gone wild” is a new one … interesting.

    21st February 2014 at 7:14 pm

  53. bb says:

    TO ALL ,I like most of the people on this site.I give some people a hard time because no one else does.
    It’s fun playing the devil’s advocate and it brings people out of their hole.(Tim)

    21st February 2014 at 7:16 pm

  54. Olga says:

    bb – let’s get real.

    I would imagine that a ridiculous co-intel troll such as yourself struggles with infiltrating a blog – led by the now infamous anti-google patriot JQ and his merry – yet serious – band of INTJ compatriots.

    The constant diminution of threads, the off-topic diversions, the personal yet ever-so-cute “assaults” that diverge from the subject yet emotionally draw people in – thus diminishing the content of the post and turning away any visitors is pretty obvious to me.

    You are here to reduce the impact this blog may have to the wayward individual that stumbles on over – and nothing more.

    I suspect they pay you well because this blog is having an impact and that can not continue.


    21st February 2014 at 7:28 pm

  55. Don says:

    Nobody should be able to make a profit when it comes to taking care of the health needs of the people.
    => Food is more essential to life than healthcare. Should no one be able to make a profit growing or processing food?

    When the profit motive becomes involved in better health for humanity, then the whole process gets corrupted. He used the example of a study that demonstrated that a saline bag costs $0.39 to manufacture and it shows up on your hospital bill for $800.
    => There are good types of economic regulation, and there are bad types of economic regulation. Requiring hospitals and pharmacies to post prices on the Web, so that consumers can make informed choices and requiring medical bills to be issued in a standard format that is clear and easy to understand are free market types of regulation.

    He correlated the greatest growth period in America in the 50’s & 60’s, which also had the highest tax rates in history. So, apparently, high tax rates = high economic growth.
    => Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
    => There were so many loopholes in the tax system that the wealthiest Americans paid a lot less than they do today. Reagan brought the top tax bracket down from 70% to 40%, but he got rid of so many loopholes that the wealthiest Americans actually paid a bigger portion of their income in taxes. (Congress since added a lot of them back in.)

    So far as student debt is concerned, economic studies have shown that the more money you pump into higher ed, the more tuition and fees rise. Certain sectors of the economy work that way. (I forget the name for that economic principle, but I remember that it’s so common that there’s a name for it.) College loans are driving up the cost of college. The government has to get rid of them, or at least make them contingent on lower tuition and fees.

    Finally, wait until he hits his 50s (or maybe even his 40s). He’ll see how incredibly strong age discrimination is in the computer industry.

    21st February 2014 at 8:01 pm

  56. dc.sunsets says:

    I find it funny (no, hilarious) that people pound the table in certainty that the future will be this or that.

    Charles Hugh Smith’s blog post on this was brilliant:

    “A lot of people are remarkably certain that their understanding of how systems will respond in the future is correct. Alan Greenspan was certain there was no housing bubble in 2007, for example (or he did a great job acting certain). There is no shortage of people who are certain the U.S. dollar is doomed to collapse, but only after losing the reserve currency status.

    “Other people are certain China can launch a gold-backed currency that will replace the dollar as the world’s reserve currency.

    “Some are certain the U.S. stock market is going to crash this year, while others are equally certain that stocks will continue lofting higher on central bank tailwinds.

    “Being wrong about the way systems responded in the past doesn’t seem to deter people from being certain about the future. Those who were certain there was no bubble in 2007-8 were wrong, and those (myself included) who saw the can being kicked down the road were wrong in not anticipating that global stocks would not just recover their pre-crash heights but go on to new nominal highs, based on the excellence of the can-kicking skills of central states and banks.”

    THE BEST part is this:

    “Certainty has another advantage: it’s more persuasive than hedged hesitancy.”

    People who are sure about their forecasts are, from my experience, unwise.

    21st February 2014 at 8:52 pm

  57. dc.sunsets says:

    This is all just a big cycle.

    People have forgotten what made the West powerful and what made for rising living standards. The principles of 17th century philosophy that underpinned the peak of Western Civilization are discredited.

    Is Tim surprised that his brother grasps none of them? Why? Our neighbors do not, either.

    Every civilization passes through a life cycle. Ours is in decline.

    Get over it, and surf the waves as they come. Our ancestors all did, from the dawn of history through the fall of Babylonian, Greek, Roman, Spanish, Dutch, French, British and United States’ empires.

    No one knows the future. All I plan to do is run through my own OODA loop as fast as I can, all the time.

    What you do is not my problem.

    21st February 2014 at 8:57 pm

  58. Billy says:

    You all are a bunch of heathens…

    NOBODY got what I posted about Bistromathics or the IID?

    No Douglas Adams fans here, huh?

    Fine… all of you must have had your senses of humor surgically removed at birth or something…


    21st February 2014 at 9:09 pm

  59. bb says:

    Olga, you bitch about Google and the government and think they are evil but it’s ok to censor or ban me from this blog .That’s the height of hypocrisy.You don’t like the way I deal with some people and you act as if I have hurt your feelings.If I make you so uncomfortable then you leave.End of your problem .Good grief ,sometimes I feel like a baby sitter.I am leaving now to take my x wife to a movie.HAPPY NOW ?

    21st February 2014 at 9:33 pm

  60. Punk in Drublic says:

    Billy, I gave you a thumbs up.

    21st February 2014 at 9:36 pm

  61. Billy says:

    “Billy, I gave you a thumbs up.” — PiD

    For what it’s worth, thanks… I don’t fish for thumbs up… or down, for that matter.

    But come ON! Doug Adams wrote some of the funniest books in the history of mankind! And only ONE GUY got the reference?

    I tried to explain the Infinite Improbability Drive to my son… the spaceship is calculated to be in every conceivable point in the Universe simultaneously, and then you just choose which point you want… saves messing around with hyperspace.. even HE thought it was funny.. and that Bistromathics had to be calculated by robot waiters to actually work…

    Man… nobody appreciates the esoteric.. well, okay, Punk does… but everyone else?

    21st February 2014 at 10:17 pm

  62. El Coyote says:

    Billy, I perused your comment and decided you were b.s.’ing, something you rarely do but hey, don’t let Olga find out or she’ll boot you off for diminishing the validity of her opinions, er, comments.

    21st February 2014 at 10:28 pm

  63. IndenturedServant says:

    Billy, I got it but like so much interesting and funny shit that exists on the web, I just have no time for it. Too much other crap to do.

    Did you ever look into that pain killer I told you about? It’s some seriously good shit, non-systemic, non-addictive and at least has the potential to make a real difference.

    21st February 2014 at 10:45 pm

  64. IndenturedServant says:

    Olga, it looks like Google forced admin to delete my post that contained that article. The article (interview) was in Mother Earth News Magazine issue #31 (part 1) and issue #32 (part 2) and was called The Plowboy Interview: John Shuttleworth. In it, John Shuttleworth mentioned the author and book that mentioned the info on the Dark Ages. The article is posted on the MEN website if you can find it. The interview is long but well worth the read.

    Perhaps admin can restore it if he still has it.

    21st February 2014 at 11:02 pm

  65. IndenturedServant says:

    Oh yeah Olga, don’t waste your time with bb. He’s just a giant skid mark in the collective underwear of society. I don’t even read his bullshit comments anymore. It was your comment about him that caught my attention. A fucking tapeworm would make more intelligent comments.

    21st February 2014 at 11:06 pm

  66. M111ark says:

    Stucky, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, not uncommon on this site that is so full of bullshit, misinformation, misdirection, white hot anger that induces stupidity and mind-numbing insanity.

    Like I said, congress critters are all a bunch of overpaid ass wipes who couldn’t hold a real job for more than 10 minutes, BUT, this is what she said:


    the whole speech ass wipe. If you can’t read all the big words ask your mommie to read it to ya… slowly so the words sink in.

    22nd February 2014 at 12:08 am

  67. bb says:

    I S ,tapeworm ? you are ignoring your own ringworm symptoms and you do read my comments.I will be nice to you for a little while.FAIR ENOUGH ?

    22nd February 2014 at 12:27 am

  68. El Coyote says:

    M111ark says:

    “Stucky, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about, not uncommon on this site that is so full of bullshit, misinformation, misdirection, white hot anger that induces stupidity and mind-numbing insanity.”

    Bullshit = Misinformation + Misdirection. Mind Numbing Insanity = Stupidity

    Therefore, what you said was: Stucky, [I] clearly have no idea what you are talking about….this site…is so full of bullshit, that [it] induces [in me] stupidity…

    This is exactly why I suggested that commenters dumb down the language they use, so numb-nut knuckle draggers like M111arse will not suffer needlessly.

    22nd February 2014 at 1:28 am

  69. Administrator says:

    Indentured Servant

    Do you remember the name of the Post? I have every post ever made in the archive and can restore it in 10 seconds.

    22nd February 2014 at 8:42 am

  70. Welshman says:


    Stucky is TBP “Dave Barry” guy who is a good man, and very delightful and insightful. You sir can go fuck yourself.

    22nd February 2014 at 8:44 am

  71. Administrator says:

    Found it and restored it.


    22nd February 2014 at 8:46 am

  72. Administrator says:

    M111ark is a liberal troll. He shits on the site while offering no alternative viewpoint. That is the liberal MO. Worthless ignorant piece of shit brainwashed by the liberal media and public education system. Too stupid to think for himself.

    22nd February 2014 at 8:49 am

  73. Tim says:

    @ bb: You consider yourself to be some kind of intellectual Agent Provocateur or something, in that you’ve often claimed your reason for being at TBP is to elicit us to look deep inside ourselves or some such horseshit. 100% of the remainder of the people on the site, and I mean, literally, 100% see you as something different. Nevertheless, I’m going to try this, against my own better judgement.

    My high school football coach told us once that there’s nothing wrong with BEING ignorant, but the problem was STAYING ignorant. bb, you are IGNORANT as to the idea of anarchy that I am proposing. And, by ignorant, I mean: You do not know. You do not have knowledge. But. that’s OK. The word has been so twisted over time (perhaps intentionally?) that “the word does not mean what I think you think it means.”

    When most people hear the word “anarchy” they think of cities burning, looting, blood in the streets, etc. That’s what I thought, too. Recently, I found a guy named Mark Passio on YouTube who does a great seminar on Natural Law. It’s about 8 hours long, so I had to listen to it in chunks as I was working outside. From the Greek:
    An = Without
    Archon = Rulers

    Anarchy= Without rulers.

    A similar analogy would be that the slaves do not need a master.

    In this idea of “anarchy” each human being takes responsibility for their own life and becomes their own internal ruler. I don’t need a “master” to tell me what or what not to put in my own body, or whether to wear my seat belt or not, or any number of other ridiculous “laws” to tell the slaves how to conduct their own lives. Don’t tread on the rights of others.

    Again, Mark Passio does a much better and more detailed job of explaining this. You’ve judged me based on my words, which you have no understanding what the words mean or what my value system is. Hope this helps to clarify.

    22nd February 2014 at 9:03 am

  74. bb says:

    Tim ,the main reason I come to this site is for the good economic.information.
    Admin ,does a good job cutting away all the lies and misinformation about the economy and there are others here with decades of.business experience.

    All these irreligious ideologies are just nothing but dressed up pagan idolatry.Most are Godless and satanic to the core.Millions have been murdered because of people worshipping these idols.The biblical ignorance and the worshiper of false gods go hand and hand.You want admit it but.anarchism is another one of these worldviews.Those who came up.with it hatred western cultural sought ways to destroy and undermine our nation.You may see something else in anarchism but it’s core is evil.

    22nd February 2014 at 10:09 am

  75. Stucky says:


    I submitted a brief video of Pelosi in her own words.

    You submit a 2,986 word link that supposedly analyses her comment.

    Typical libtard bullshit. You need to be told what you just heard because you can’t think for yourself. You think 2,986 Words Of Obfuscation is the answer?? bwaahahahahaha

    Libtards provide more humor than I can ever muster.

    22nd February 2014 at 10:47 am

  76. bb says:

    Tim.,if you don’t want people to challenge you worthless worldview then don’t tell what you are.I.was being nice to you .If we would have been on another site I would have verbally pulled your tongue out your butt and beat you over the head with it.This is admin site and his blog.I try ,I really try to remember this when I am dealing with.people ….You don’t have to worry about being nice to me .I can take and give.

    22nd February 2014 at 11:39 am

  77. IndenturedServant says:

    Thanks admin! For just a minute I thought I was losing my mind when I didn’t see that post in my list of posts but then I remembered The Great Purge you had to make. Thanks again. I hope Olga finds it.

    22nd February 2014 at 1:23 pm

  78. Bruce says:


    You said to Admin………………….

    “Do you remember the name of the Post? I have every post ever made in the archive and can restore it in 10 seconds.”

    So does the NSA and they can pull it up in ,03427 seconds or less.

    22nd February 2014 at 11:39 pm

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