GUESS WHO WAS RIGHT ABOUT IRAQ IN 2002?

Ron Paul Rewind: ‘Do Not Attack Iraq!’ (2002)

On the eve of President Bush’s war on Iraq, as the House debated the authorization for the use of force that it ultimately gave the president, then-Rep. Ron Paul stood up to oppose the coming war from every possible angle. The process was wrong; the precedent set by launching a pre-emptive war would come back to haunt us; the age-old Christian “Just War” doctrine had not been met, thus the war was immoral; the war would cost a fortune; and so on.

He tried every approach to get his colleagues to listen.With the rapid fall of Iraq to an al-Qaeda affiliated army, the ISIS, in progress this week — an al-Qaeda that did not exist in Iraq before the invasion — we can look back and wish that the rest of the Congress and the president had listened to Ron Paul’s warnings and pleas…

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42 Comments
Zarathustra
Zarathustra
June 13, 2014 3:58 pm

At some point, history will be very kind to Dr. Paul.

Rise Up
Rise Up
June 13, 2014 4:01 pm

Iraqi Air Force evacuating besieged American contractors –

“A U.S. contractor in Iraq told WND the Iraqi Air Force has begun evacuations from Balad Air Force Base, where 200 American contractors were trapped by the al-Qaida-inspired jihadists who have seized control of two cities and are now threatening Baghdad.

…private contractors who have recently returned to the U.S. from Iraq said their former colleagues effectively had been abandoned by the U.S. military and were fighting for their lives against an army of jihadists surrounding the base who belong to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.”

Iraqi Air Force evacuating besieged U.S. contractors

AWD
AWD
June 13, 2014 4:07 pm

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A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem
June 13, 2014 4:16 pm

“History” has already justified Dr. Paul in every single respect, no exceptions. BC-LR to all

BUCKHED
BUCKHED
June 13, 2014 5:39 pm

Still like RP…even though he has a large PAC that employs most of his family….that one I didn’t expect .

underfire
underfire
June 13, 2014 6:41 pm

RP never stood a chance against the military complex muscle machine, puppet mastering the decision makers. Couple that with a voting population that is generally only interested in their own little here and now, and the rest is history.

bb
bb
June 13, 2014 7:09 pm

Been watching news and videos coming from Iraq. People are being rounded up and shot to death for the whole world to see.People getting killed just walking down the street. I think we are getting a look at what life is going to be like in this country after economic collapse. Best be armed and ready to fight.Plan ,Prepare, Prep .

Westcoaster
Westcoaster
June 13, 2014 7:31 pm

The fact the US is still following the PNAC plan after all these idiotic wars/attacks, overthrows of elected governments, with no one in prison for war crimes, proves to me beyond a shadow of doubt that the coup that stole the 2000 election is STILL IN CHARGE. The players change, but never the “game”.
These bastards look at recent developments as another way to profit. And that’s it.

Persnickety
Persnickety
June 13, 2014 9:50 pm

Pb said: “People are being rounded up and shot to death for the whole world to see.People getting killed just walking down the street. I think we are getting a look at what life is going to be like in this country after economic collapse.”

Yeah, Detroit’s a pretty rough town. If Obama had a city, it would look like it.

Gary Anderson
Gary Anderson
June 13, 2014 11:18 pm

I am not a libertarian, but I agree with Ron Paul’s position on war. I believe that Yinon Zionism, or Clean Break regime change drove the neocons to war. This was a new world order war. The dark side of Globalization took over.

Llpoh
Llpoh
June 14, 2014 12:28 am

Millions of folks knew this. RP was not a lone wolf. Perhaps he was the lone politician, tho.

Anonymous
Anonymous
June 14, 2014 1:21 am

I opposed invading Iraq and I agree that the Christian “Just” war doctrine was not met and now we all are going to pay the price for unjust foolishness.

flash
flash
June 14, 2014 8:14 am

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

― H.L. Mencken

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The mission of morons fully accomplished

[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9
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American exceptionalism i.e. my tyrant is better than your tyrant.

[img]https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9
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I’m sure somewhere in the 9th circle of hell, Saddam is bent over double , laughing hysterically.

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flash
flash
June 14, 2014 8:16 am

anuther'[imgcomment image[/img]

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flash
flash
June 14, 2014 8:40 am

And, to think that even after the blatant lies told at the cost of trillions of US taxpayer dollars,the loss of over 4 thousand American soldiers lives and the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, and the destruction of the entire infascture of an innocent peoples’ nation , there are those who still think this POS drunken frat boy Dubya Bush a great American…sheesh…the stupid , it burns.

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SSS
SSS
June 14, 2014 11:28 am

Hmmm. Several people here, led by the irrepressible flash, suffer from a severe malady known as “selective memory.” Let’s consider ….

Saddam Hussein launched a horrible, protracted war with Iran and used chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers. An estimated total 1,000,000 deaths resulted.

Saddam Hussein did engage in chemical warfare against those pesky Kurds in northern Iraq. Thousands of innocent women and children died as a result. The Kurds prevailed.

Saddam Hussein did invade Kuwait on the pretext that it was Iraq’s “19th Province.” Many more thousands died, mostly Kuwaitis.

Saddam Hussein did launch dirty rockets laden with chemicals into Saudi Arabia and Israel after Bush the Elder put together the Desert Storm Operation to liberate Kuwait.

Saddam Hussein, throughout his reign, did suppress any and all Iraqi Shiite resistence to his dictatorship. Documents presented at his trial indicted that tens of thousands of Shiites were brutally executed or murdered by Iraqi troops. Again, this included many innocent women and children residing in Shiite villages where unrest was detected.

All of this has been soundly documented. Yet somehow it prompts a response like a photo of Saddam Hussein with the title “Miss Me Yet?”

Well, no, I don’t miss him.

Stucky
Stucky
June 14, 2014 11:53 am

But Saddam didn’t do this

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Destroy an entire nation, get thousands of Americans killed, tens of thousands more wounded, maimed, and psychological basket cases, and millions of dead and wounded Iraqi people. You can thank America for that.

We sure taught him a lesson!!

AWD
AWD
June 14, 2014 11:55 am

Obama’s Iraq Debacle

By Rich Lowry June 13, 2014

Mario has an excellent piece on the home page on how President Obama’s policy of passivity in Syria and Iraq has created the premise for a catastrophe in Iraq and a broader regional meltdown. He mentions this Dexter Filkins report in The New Yorker, which is worth reading in full. Its account of how we ended up with no troops in Iraq is particularly valuable and worth quoting at length, given the spin of the administration’s supporters that there was no deal to be had to keep a presence there. The story is complicated, but it’s clear the administration had no real interest in staying and trying to preserve the fragile stability we had fought so hard to achieve:

The leaders of all the major Iraqi parties had privately told American commanders that they wanted several thousand military personnel to remain, to train Iraqi forces and to help track down insurgents. The commanders told me that Maliki, too, said that he wanted to keep troops in Iraq. But he argued that the long-standing agreement that gave American soldiers immunity from Iraqi courts was increasingly unpopular; parliament would forbid the troops to stay unless they were subject to local law.

President Obama, too, was ambivalent about retaining even a small force in Iraq. For several months, American officials told me, they were unable to answer basic questions in meetings with Iraqis—like how many troops they wanted to leave behind—because the Administration had not decided. “We got no guidance from the White House,” Jeffrey told me. “We didn’t know where the President was. Maliki kept saying, ‘I don’t know what I have to sell.’ ” At one meeting, Maliki said that he was willing to sign an executive agreement granting the soldiers permission to stay, if he didn’t have to persuade the parliament to accept immunity. The Obama Administration quickly rejected the idea. “The American attitude was: Let’s get out of here as quickly as possible,” Sami al-Askari, the Iraqi member of parliament, said.

The last American combat troops departed Iraq on December 18, 2011. Some U.S. officials believe that Maliki never intended to allow soldiers to remain; in a recent e-mail, he denied ever supporting such a plan, saying, “I am the owner of the idea of withdrawing the U.S. troops.” Many Iraqi and American officials are convinced that even a modest force would have been able to prevent chaos—not by fighting but by providing training, signals intelligence, and a symbolic presence. “If you had a few hundred here, not even a few thousand, they would be coöperating with you, and they would become your partners,” Askari told me. “But, when they left, all of them left. There’s no one to talk to about anything.”

Although the White House denies it, we lost almost all of our influence:

“We used to restrain Maliki all the time,” Lieutenant General Michael Barbero, the deputy commander in Iraq until January, 2011, told me. “If Maliki was getting ready to send tanks to confront the Kurds, we would tell him and his officials, ‘We will physically block you from moving if you try to do that.’ ” Barbero was angry at the White House for not pushing harder for an agreement. “You just had this policy vacuum and this apathy,” he said. “Now we have no leverage in Iraq. Without any troops there, we’re just another group of guys.” There is no longer anyone who can serve as a referee, he said, adding, “Everything that has happened there was not just predictable—we predicted it.”

Indeed, months before the election, American diplomats in Iraq sent a rare dissenting cable to Washington, complaining that the U.S., with its combination of support and indifference, was encouraging Maliki’s authoritarian tendencies. “We thought we were creating a dictator,” one person who signed the memo told me.

Sure enough, as soon as we were gone, the downward spiral began:

Less than twenty-four hours after the last convoy of American fighters left, Maliki’s government ordered the arrest of Vice-President Tariq al-Hashemi, the highest-ranking Sunni Arab.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380409/obamas-iraq-debacle-rich-lowry

Stucky
Stucky
June 14, 2014 12:10 pm

“Saddam Hussein, throughout his reign, did suppress any and all Iraqi Shiite resistence to his dictatorship” ———– SSS

Sure am glad we fucked him up. And we did it the right way.

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A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem
June 14, 2014 12:11 pm

Who the hell cares what happens in Iraq? Whoever ends up as chief thief-in-charge will keep the oil flowing. BC-LR to all

SSS
SSS
June 14, 2014 12:44 pm

@ Stucky aka Neutron Star

Everything I stated happened BEFORE 2002, and you come sashaying onto the thread with an Abu Graib photo, which occurred AFTER 2002. How many prisoners died at Abu Graib, professor? Is the answer fucking zero?

And then there’s this from the Professor Emeritus of Disinformation, “millions of dead and wounded Iraqi people. You can thank America for that.”

Bullshit. Total bullshit. Millions=2,000,000 plus. That’s a figure of genocide proportions, dumbass. Don’t forget to subtract the tens of thousands of al Qaeda affiliated FOREIGN jihadists who died for Mohammed.

Stucky
Stucky
June 14, 2014 1:02 pm

The indispensable and holy nation tortures its enemies. This happened after 2002. No one died. Everything is A-OK, nothing to see here, move along.

“by the time all their calculations had settled the researchers put their “confidence interval” for possible excess deaths between March 2003 and June 2011 [as high as] 751,000.” ————————- http://www.psmag.com/navigation/politics-and-law/better-stab-estimating-many-died-iraq-war-68419/

The above does not take into account; deaths due to destroyed infrastructure, especially contaminated drinking water, 4 million orphans, 660,000 living in the streets, close to 2 million refugees, deaths due to horrendous nutrition, and on and on …….. all given in great detail and numerous links and references here ———–> http://web.mit.edu/humancostiraq/

The only thing our CIA spook failed to mention is “We gave Iraq Democracy! Woo Hoo!”. A destroyed nation, people living on the edge, destroyed futures, hopelessness …. nothing to see here folks. Move along. We got Saddam. That’s all that matters. We are righteous, Iraqis are not.

SSS
SSS
June 14, 2014 1:13 pm

“You somewhat conveniently forgot who was arming and supporting Hussein in his war with Iran.
Who provided the gas that killed the Kurds?”
—-Admin

Admin’s itching for another ass-whooping, and I’m here to deliver same.

I didn’t forget a damn thing. Most of Saddam’s lethal military hardware came from the Soviet Union, and the rest came from international arms dealers. The U.S. sent non-lethal economic and military aid, such as uniforms.

Private German and French corporations were responsible for his ability to manufacture chemical weapons (nerve and mustard gas). Read and comprehend your Wiki article more carefully.

bb
bb
June 14, 2014 1:44 pm

Regardless of who’s the blame for the current problems the West had better stop these mass murdering jihadists before they take over the southern oilfields.If they captured those oilfields the price of oil is going towards 200 dollars a barrel according to people at I B D .

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
June 14, 2014 2:12 pm

This is a martyrs cemetary in Iran. Every city has one. The families of these soldiers come and picnic on the graves of their dead sons. They meet and befriend the families of other dead soldiers. Many marriages have resulted. Not all graves have a picture, of course. There are also the graves of unknown soldiers and families who do not know where their sons are buried gather there.

[img]http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=mN0Dauuwioz7iM&tbnid=NmNfWE2fSy9uiM:&ved=0CAgQjRw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fandersh%2F146313262%2F&ei=nY-cU7mIKImlyATBtoLgDw&psig=AFQjCNG1QXBNTT-JGX9TAPyeTOeLbfBBcQ&ust=1402855709735584[/img]

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem
June 14, 2014 4:28 pm

Learned one thing anyway – Stucky’s a neocon. “Nuff said. BC-LR to all

SSS
SSS
June 14, 2014 6:27 pm

Admin

Your lap dog Stucky is hiding in shame under his desk after I destroyed his penchant for hyperbole. He said “millions of Iraqis” died after the American invasion in 2003 and then fessed up by posting two links to articles putting the estimated, repeat, estimated figure at somewhere between 150,000 to 700,000. In other words, everyone is guessing, but it sure as shit ain’t millions.

As for you, you haven’t countered one single fact I laid out. In fact, you assert leaps of faith throughout your flash-inspired copy-and-paste performance. So what if the CIA knew about Saddam’s use of chemicals against Iran? What’s the big fucking deal? The Iranians happened to be fighting on Iraqi soil, btw. Look at a fucking map and try and locate Basra, where the attacks took place. And here’s a quote from YOUR copy-and-paste.

“The use of chemical weapons in war is banned under the Geneva Protocol of 1925, which states that parties “will exert every effort to induce other States to accede to the” agreement. Iraq never ratified the protocol; the United States did in 1975. The Chemical Weapons Convention, which bans the production and use of such arms, wasn’t passed until 1997, years after the incidents in question.”

Got that? Iraq never ratified the protocol, and enemy troops were on their soil. War is hell.

You might want to ask Avalon if there’s a soft cushion for you to sit on after this brutal spanking you just received.

Rise Up
Rise Up
June 14, 2014 8:01 pm

@T4C – “New York Times Says “Lack Of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth”

Did you ever hear of the Report from Iron Mountain?

“In 1967, a major publisher, The Dial Press, released Report from Iron Mountain. The book claimed to be a suppressed, secret government report, written by a commission of scholars, known as the “Special Study Group”, set up in 1963, with the document itself leaked by one of its members. The Group met at an underground nuclear bunker called Iron Mountain and worked over a period of two and a half years, delivering the report in September 1966.

“The report was an investigation into the problems that the United States would need to face if and when “world peace” should be established on a more or less permanent basis. Or to quote from the “official” report: “It is surely no exaggeration to say that a condition of general world peace would lead to changes in the social structures of the nations of the world of unparalleled and revolutionary magnitude. The economic impact of general disarmament, to name only the most obvious consequence of peace, would revise the production and distribution patterns of the globe to a degree that would make the changes of the past fifty years seem insignificant. Political, sociological, cultural, and ecological changes would be equally far-reaching. What has motivated our study of these contingencies has been the growing sense of thoughtful men in and out of government that the world is totally unprepared to meet the demands of such a situation.”

http://www.philipcoppens.com/ironmountain.html

In other words–we can’t handle peace, according to the “Report”.

Stucky
Stucky
June 14, 2014 9:49 pm

“Learned one thing anyway – Stucky’s a neocon.” ————- A. R. Wasem

What???????????????

Are you serious? If so, please explain.

Stucky
Stucky
June 14, 2014 10:01 pm

“Your lap dog Stucky is hiding in shame under his desk “————- SSS

When have you EVER seen me hide? At 1:30 I took my dad to to a picnic hosted by the Plainfield German Singer Club …. a fascinating experience. Just got home a few minutes ago. Lap dog? I’m too tired right now. Maybe Admin will deal harshly with you.
.
.
” ….after I destroyed his penchant for hyperbole. He said “millions of Iraqis” died after the American invasion in 2003 ….”

I must STRONGLY advise you to get READING GLASSES. Or, maybe take a READING COMPREHENSION course.

This is exactly what I said. Read slowly if you must; —-” … and millions of dead AND WOUNDED Iraqi people”

Did you get that? I said “AND WOUNDED”. Do I need to explain it to you?

I’m exhausted and going to bed. I might deal with you tomorrow. Once I’m rested it won’t go well for you. Your only hope at this point is to beg forgiveness and mercy.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem
June 14, 2014 10:32 pm

Stucky – Sorry, I misread your last post. Serves me right for being in a hurry. Best regards – Rich

SSS
SSS
June 14, 2014 11:21 pm

“I might deal with you tomorrow.”
—-Sticky @ SSS

Might? I’m waiting.

yahsure
yahsure
June 15, 2014 12:15 am

I just keep remembering how everyone said Ron Paul’s thinking was crazy. His foreign policy thinking wasn’t realistic. I kept thinking how he was the only intelligent person running. The only veteran also.