I just feel like posting a Moral Dilemma question.
—- I was watching some episode of wild weather on NatGeo … which, in a few cases, showed people risking their lives to save total strangers
—- also, I got the idea from a post on RE’s site that got a lot of traction, here; …. http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/forum/index.php/topic,3085.0.html
I’m not talking about risking your life for someone you know well, like, or love. And no children either. That’s too easy. Even Jeebus said (emphasis mine); —– “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life FOR HIS FRIENDS.” …… John 15:13
Here’s your scenario;
1) You see an adult who is drowning and calling out frantically. “Please help me, I can’t swim!!”. You have 15 seconds to decide what to do. Assume you know that you have a 25% chance of yourself drowning. What do you do if the person is;
—- A) Someone you vaguely “know” (like me or another TBP member)
—- B) A total stranger.
—- C) A stranger, BUT you know the person is evil (rapist, murderer, Obama, etc.)
2) Also, start out by briefly (as in one sentence) stating your religious bent …. because I think it should influence your decision.
I’ll get it started.
—————————————————- –
I am an agnostic.
I would like to first say that I have NEVER found myself in having to make such a decision. So, I really have no idea what I would do if the situation ever presented itself. I’ve read that people who actually perform such acts of “heroism” often state they reacted “instinctively” … meaning, they just didn’t even have time to think about it. Jump NOW …. regret or rejoice later. BUT, given proper time to “think it through”, this is what I believe I would do;
A)—– It all depends if I like the person. I give myself a 75% chance of jumping in to save folks like Admin, AWD, TeresaE, … well, quite many of you. I give myself 0% chance of jumping in to save Nonanonymous … and I’m not trying to be funny, I’m serious. So, right off the bat I’m making a judgment call. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Some people are worth saving, others are not. In a sense, I am Judge, Jury, and Executioner. That’s supposed to be wrong, but I’m OK with it.
B)—– I give myself just a 10% chance of saving a total stranger. I’m no “hero” and never aspired to be one. No, I am not “Looking Out For #1”. Fact is, I have Ms. Freud, kids, grand-kids, and old feeble parents who need me. My death would serve no purpose for them. If I had NO ONE, then I might raise the probability to 33%. I’m following my Agnostic mindset. If the drowning person is a Christian and they die, then they go to Paradise. They get the Benefit whether they live, or die. Me? I’m eventually going to be worm food … and there’s NO need to rush the process for a total stranger.
C)—– There is ZERO chance I would risk my life for an evil person. An evil person, by definition, would not die for me. Why should I die for them? I can’t think of a single reason. Also, if only good people die for evil people, then only evil people will be left. Who wants that shit? In fact, letting evil people die is a correct Moral Response …. let God, or Nature, sift them out of the gene pool.
Yeah! 75% Woot! Woot!
Ok Stuck, I’ll bite:
I don’t know “what” I am, I guess agnostic, though I really don’t think that exactly fits either. I believe in a power greater than me, and I believe there is somewhere else we come and go from. Beyond that, I’m content with believing I will know, for sure, someday. Hopefully, someday a very long time from now.
A – There is a near 100% chance I would jump in to save someone I know, and don’t hate. I’m stupid that way. I just couldn’t stand by doing nothing. Not in my nature and I could never forgive myself if my inactivity cost someone their life. Well, someone I care about.
B – There would be about a 50/50 chance, depends on circumstances and if I actually think I have a chance to survive my stupidity. Note that this is much different from (A), where I wouldn’t care about my own hide.
C – Bwaaaahaaaa. Yeah, right. There are a lot of people I wouldn’t piss on to put them out if they were on fire. Risk my life? Not likely. I will, however, be glad to call 9-11 for them, I might even throw in a life preserver if one is available and I’m not in a state (like Cali) where I could be sued for helping.
Years ago, my best friend and I were doing some shopping at the gigantic (sarc) Adrian Mall. While driving between the Meijer’s parking lot, and the mall proper, we noticed a car not moving from his stop sign.
As we drew closer, we noticed that the driver had the passenger down on the seat and we could see the driver’s fist pistoning up and down, on the other person’s head.
I was prepared to tell my friend to drive around when up popped a lady’s head, tears streaming, hands up in supplication, begging to not be hit again. The bastard hit her and I did not wait for our car to stop as I was out of our car, running up to theirs, screaming, “quit hitting her you bastard!!!!”
I yanked open his door, grabbed him by the collar and belt, and yanked back as hard as my 110 (then) pounds would allow. I was strong for my size.
We both flew backwards away from the car, my best friend by that point was screaming across the parking lot to the dozens of witnesses that had poured out of the Sears auto bays and were just standing their watching this.
When the guy jumped up from the pavement, then turned around with his fist cocked ready to knock the man out whom interrupted the “deserved” beating of his “lady,” the look on his face was priceless when he saw that it was just little ole’ me.
Thankfully, he was smart enough to not hit me. And thankfully, a couple of the onlookers decided that a guy beating his girl was probably ok, but a guy beating a stranger, wasn’t. The cops arrived relatively quickly, the paramedics cleaned up her face, then the ultimate in human stupidity was observed, “I’m not pressing charges, it was my fault.”
The cop was just echoing my own thoughts when he told me it wasn’t worth your own hide when dealing with abuse like that.
BUT, I’ve done it since.
Right is right, wrong is wrong, and if I’m supposed to be dead, well then, I’ll be dead.
Of course, if I don’t like you, then in Stucky’s scenario, you would be dead. So it goes….
To not be killed while attempting to save Stucky, the drowning person, you wait until he has exhausted him self, then you go save Stucky. If you go in too early both folks drown. John
TeresaE yanking a lunatic guy much larger then her out of a car …… that feisty little gal is my hero!!
bluestem … moobs will prevent me from ever drowning
I guess I’m a fallen Catholic, I think if there is a God he’s what we make him, I don’t have much to say about organized religion, the most morally correct people I know are agnostic or atheist. Free choice and all that, does a person really need the fear of Gods might to keep him from killing or doing wrong? That’s kind of fucked up if you ask me.
Anyway……
Saving a stranger, does it have to be drowning?
I had a dream once that I saved an entire Seventh Day Adventist family from a fire, afterwards we became the best of friends and when the shit hit the fan they took me in as one of their own. That seemed a good choice in the dream.
Real life I would probably piss my pants just thinking about entering a burning building.
Saving a known evil person? I may throw gas on the fire.
TE – you sound like me; I’m about your size. I also like to believe that there is a higher power. But when I see injustice, I’m in there whether it’s guy on girl or guy on guy. I’ve saved two stranger’s lives (at least I was sure they would have died if I hadn’t been there) and I did it instinctively. I did give it a second or two of thought, but one was a child, and I had to act fast, and there I did put my life at considerable risk. But I was single at the time, no children, so maybe I’d be different now.
Be careful in the water, as bluestem said, as a drowning person will take you down too. Grab something, a branch, a flotation device, anything that floats, and reach it out to them. That way they have something to grab onto (and there’s distance between the two of you), and then you can steer them in. Just be prepared with your thinking beforehand.
I think your instinct just kicks in. When I helped these people, I wasn’t thinking about being a hero. I was just thinking I had to help them at that moment. I really don’t think I could have looked myself in the mirror again if I hadn’t.
He reached out to me, I hesitated, and in that split second moment he was lost. And there was nothing I could do about it. Maybe if I hadn’t hesitated, I would have joined him. Maybe I could have pulled him back. Now he is just a statistic, a name on a plaque. Good, bad or otherwise, and regardless of religion, if you are ever in the position, your instinct will either be to make the move to save the person, or to check your own safety first. I do not believe it is something you can decide upon in advance or based on hypothetics. I have played it over in my head for 25 years now. I knew him well. He was like a brother to me.
@Skippy, that is sad…
Agree with bluestem/John and others who warn that attempting to rescue someone who can’t swim could result in your death as well.
As to would I save someone I didn’t care for? Maybe, if I thought I could do it without endangering myself. If someone is evil their karma will get them eventually, so yeah, I’d do the noble thing and try to save them, but again, only if my chances of surviving were very high.
I did pull out my best friend from a frozen pond when I was about 12. We were crossing the pond and he was ahead of me and went in where it was about 8′ deep. I got on my belly and was able to get him out. We’re very lucky we both didn’t drown and the ice didn’t crack more when I pulled him out.
Remember Larry Skutnik? (Florida Flight 90 in Washington, D.C., 1980).
Correction – Flight 90 crash was 1982.
Two things I love .My mom and little bb.I would save both of them.The rest of humanity I’m not sure about..My Grandfather saved other men in combat from certain death and received metals
For his bravery during WW2 .This was at the Battle of the Bulge . I don’t know if I would have that kind of courage. It would be a test for me .I could be a hero or I could be a coward.I just don’t know.
Hot chick flailing around – I’m in. Fat fuck section 8/SNAP carding/EBT FSA lieutenant….nope. Seriously, who knows till you’re right there, in the moment.
I am not going in after any of those three. Drowning is a phobia of mine. Anyway, they should have learned to swim ( = they should have ducked).
Another thing I am not going into is a large container/vessel with a man/men down. That is suicidal. Happens all the time – one gets poisoned or has lack of oxygen, then several more go in trying to help.
I’m not convinced of the existence or non-existence of God but that has not stopped me from helping friends, family or total strangers in the past. I don’t view the world in religious terms at all. I tend to think of how I’d like to be treated if tables were turned.
The title I asks if I would die for Stucky. If I knew I was going die saving him, probably not. If I had a reasonable chance of saving him without killing myself then yes.
I’d let a child molester or rapist die in an instant. I’d probably save Obama’s dumb ass but I’m sure I’d regret it.
Trying to save a drowning person by jumping in to save them yourself is a very dangerous thing to do even if you are a good swimmer. Drowning people are totally panicked and they will do anything to save themselves including pushing you under. It won’t be a conscious act but pure instinct takes over and you could be knocked out with a knee or an elbow or simply overpowered by their panic. It’s much better to get something to them that they can grab onto. I believe your chances of saving a drowning person by jumping into save them is much greater than 25%.
I don’t know that it was a life threatening situation but I extricated a small boy from the backseat of a seriously mangled car that had been rear ended at high speed while waiting to turn. I never gave any thought to the danger of fire. I was more worried about the high speed traffic on the road but I just got to work. His legs were pinned between the back of the drivers seat and the front of his seat. The father was freaking the fuck out and was of no use at all. The pregnant mother was just crying and scared. It took more time to get dad out of the car so I could get the boy free than anything. He eventually climbed out the window and ran around flipping out rather than help his wife until I got him focused. In retrospect I don’t think the boy or the wife would have been freaked out so much if dad had remained calm. Everyone was fine but I think dad suffered his lifetime limit of mental trauma that day.
“Assume you know that you have a 25% chance of yourself drowning.” —— me
The thought exercise gets a bit more interesting when the chances for your survival are at either extreme.
What if you have 100% chance of surviving? I suppose everybody would be saying they’d save everybody. Not me …. I’d still let the evil fucker drown. I wouldn’t even call 9-1-1. What the fuck is it with people feeling this need to save evil??
What if you have 100% chance of surviving? Pretty easy there, eh?
—- Fuck the evil guy, for sure … in other words, one’s altruism is based on one’s survival rate.
—- Fuck the stranger, probably. Although, in that wild weather show someone jumped into a raging river, and that person just had to know their survival rate was near zero.
—- I guess most would still try to save a loved one … but not everyone would.
I’m a pretty good swimmer…I would save stucky if his moobs were taped down.
“The title I asks if I would die for Stucky. If I knew I was going die saving him, probably not.” —–I_S
You ….. you ………. you …………. PUSSY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whether I die or not saving him…would be up to Stucky.
..or, of course, the person I was attempting to save. Might have to choke them out to get them to calm down.
But if I was mountain climbing, and saw Stuck fall. No. There is no other outcome for Stucky. He is very likely going to do.
*do = die
As a died in the wool, 100% atheist, to me the most valuable thing in the universe is life. There is nothing more valuable. Why? Because when a life is lost (I do not limit “life” to humans alone) it’s gone – poof – forever and will never have an influence on the universe from then on.
That, in turn, answers the rest of the question. I’d do what is necessary to save any human life if there’s the odds are it would be successful effort. I will not commit suicide to do it. If I misjudged the odds and died in the process, well, I fucked up but for a good cause. It’s not my place to put a judgement on the “value” of any human so until proven otherwise anyone in distress is equal to any one else..
I also carry a concealed firearm and guarantee you that if saving a life required the taking of another life with no other options and the bad guy was readily identifiable, I’d blow the turkey away without even thinking about it because he’s busted the rules and is no longer a member of the human race to me at all.
I hope I never have to do the later but would if I had to. In a war, all bets are off and anything goes, no matter how ugly and immoral it is.
And surprise! It is quite possible to be both a moral person and an atheist.
MA
I said:
” I believe your chances of saving a drowning person by jumping into save them is much greater than 25%.”
It should have said: I believe your chances of *dying* saving a drowning person by jumping into save them is much greater than 25%. Drowning people are dangerous!
Mucking about ,who put this known morality in your heart. Who told you human life had value. Who put a knowledge of right /wrong ,good /bad in you .Where did your conscience come from mucking boy.I bet you think you one of the good guys.
Mucking I try to be nice to you but at times your atheism really test me.
Anonymous , you stole my post.How did you do that ?Or was it someone more sinister. Stucky , it was you .
Where’s bb ?What is happening ?
I was a lifeguard and am still a strong swimmer, loved ones: i’d jump in for unquestionably if need be, i’d save anyone who posts here regularly (even bb) but i would be using a macgyvered tool to avoid a panicky person, but no CPR. The worst posters on tbp are still better than the average FSA member. strangers, case by case judgment call but more often than not I would help.
Known evil fucks, (i.e. progressives, fed reserve chairmen, rapists, pigfuks) are left to fend for themselves.
Twice I’ve saved someone’s life but in neither case did I risk anything.
First time, I was about 14, when I and two other guys went to a nearby lake to go swimming. The three of us were standing on the shore when one of the guys started walking into the lake. What he assumed apparently was that the ground went down at a consistent angle, but what he didn’t know and couldn’t see was that he was about to step off a vertical cliff that was hidden below that water. The sudden drop shocked him and he became disoriented and panicked. I saw him flailing about and at first I thought he was just screwing around. But he kept it up and I began to wonder if he might be in trouble so I just reached over and grabbed him and pulled him towards the shore, I barely even got my feet wet but he insisted he was drowning and that I had saved his life.
The second time I was about 50. I and my future X-wife were out to dinner at a fairly nice restaurant. We had already been served and were eating when I noticed the man at the table next to us had his mouth wide open as if he was trying to yell but he wasn’t making a sound. Then his wife asked him if he was all right and he shook his head NO! she then got up and tried to perform the Heimlich Maneuver but she clearly didn’t have any strength and wasn’t successful. Then the woman and my wife both spoke to me at the same time. The woman looked straight at me and said “can you help me” and my wife was saying something about me helping the lady.
My first reaction was “WHO ME?” There was the entire restaurant full of people so why me? But that reaction vanished instantly and I decided I was up to bat.
Now understand I had no training doing this maneuver, I had read about it and may have seen it discussed on TV but that’s it. So I get behind the guy (This couple were probably in their 60) and put my arms right about the bottom of his rib cage and jerk real hard—nothing. I did it again only harder—-nothing. I did it a third time as hard as dared do without hurting the guy—– nothing! Ok that’s it ——–I’m not going to hold back anything, GO AHEAD HURT HIM, break his ribs, it doesn’t matter, he’s going to die anyway. So I give it all I had, I’m sure I picked him completely off his feet and he was not a small guy either. Out popped a piece of steak onto the table.
They of course thanked me and quickly left the restaurant.
My reaction to that event was not what I would have expected. You might think I would have felt proud that I had just saved a life- hay look at me I just save a guy’s life. No. I almost couldn’t finish my dinner, the whole event was almost upsetting, it wasn’t a positive feeling at all.
So when I asked the waitress for the check she said that he couple had already paid it and anything else we cared to have plus the tip was fully taken care of and she said they had asked her to thank us again.
———————
Would I put myself at risk to save someone?—I don’t know.
If it were Obama drowning—- where’s a fire hose?
@Anonymous (either 1 or 2): Morality is simply knowing right from wrong. (Which is a totally subjective evaluation of actions you and others take.) What hurts other life is immoral. Those actions that allow other life to flourish and be able to accomplish something with their life is moral.
I know – how about the tragedy of executing a human being who, by his/her actions have convinced a jury of his/her peers that a death sentence is required? In my mind (and believe me, no system of “justice” is 100% accurate – but we do the best we can) when the convicted person is found guilty, he/she has placed himself/herself beyond the moral pale of the human race and sooner he or she is disposed of the better – by whatever means.. Personally, I like the very public use (in down town or the town square) of the firing squad or hanging or the guillotine which shows the general public what the real punishment for trespassing on societies norms can bring and we, for damn sure, convince a certain percentage of misbehavior prone humans to knock it off and do right.
Stopping immoral actions by other people is a moral action. Allow other people to do immoral acts is as immoral as the acts you observe and you are morally bound to try and stop them.
I don’t consider myself to have a conscience. I just act to insure that more people benefit from my actions than suffer and preferably no one suffers at all.
Morality comes from observation of human actions as you grow up, (your own actions and those of others), drawing conclusions as what actions have positive results and which ones have negative results or even unintended results, putting these observations into a feed=back loop which will influence your behavior in the future.
Some people can’t manage this or simply have dropped a gene between generations that allows them to empathize with others of the human race. Some are psychopaths who are incapable or any moral judgement at all. Some are totally mentally crippled where life is not understandable to them no matter what. We have managed, to no good, to classify such people as “sick” with “curable” disease — which, unless it’s a chemical defect in brain — is utter horse shit. From these types, we, as a society, sadly need to be protected 24/7 from now to forever. This isn’t happening at the moment because of the utter failure of society to accept the truth and take a stand on it. Instead, the prisons are used to warehouse the mentally ill until the money runs out and then they get dumped back on the street to commit murder and mayhem — time after time..
There is a judgement role for morality here. If these mentally crippled humans cannot be hospitalized and treated, the confinement (with or without treatment) is a moral imperative in order to protect society as a whole. Not doing so is immoral. What society has to do is minimize mistakes, stay loose and as medical science learns more about mental illness, apply that new knowledge to existing cases then incarcerated.
Then there’s the money to allow it all to be done – which is technically impossible to come up with because No One Cares.. Society is immoral in this aspect.
I think I’ll go have a good Russian Ice Tea and knock this shit off for a while.. (Russian Ice Tea? 8 ounces of sweet tea in a 10 ounce mug, over ice, a shot (1 1/2 ounces of vodka) and fill to the top with good 100% Florida Orange juice).
Beats the shit out of drinking unsweetened tea or straight vodka ——– but the orange juice is strictly optional but worth it!!
MA
I saved someone once, with a small amount of risk to my life in hindsight.
A tall stack of metal baskets of a cubic yard each (probably seven or eight baskets high – or over 20 feet high) began to topple over, as it was bumped from the other side by a forklift. There were three of us standing directly in line with the falling tower of baskets. I shoved one of the other two guys out of the way and departed the scene.
The other dumb fuck stood there with his mouth open watching the tower collapse onto him. I had just enough time to reach back and grab him and drag him clear. The baskets missed him by inches. He would have been dead as the dodos for sure and certain under tons of steel.
How the flight gene is not evident in some folks I do not know.
Another example of how people do not flee when they should but rather stand with their mouths open (prime example is when the tsunami hit) was once when we were at a theme park. We were on a bridge over a waterway watching the ride. The ride consisted of a giant raft (probably held 30 people, so a big ass raft) dropped from high up into said waterway. The raft was dropped, and when it hit the water it threw up a giant wall of water toward the bridge, and toward/over the people standing on it (obviously designed to totally drench those on the bridge).
Well, anyway, as the raft approached the water I instantly recognized what was about to happen, and beat feet. I even snatched up a kid standing next to me of around 7 (a kid I did not even know) and exited the bridge just in time to avoid this 20 foot wall of water. No one else got off the bridge. My wife and kids looked like drowned rats, as did the kid’s mother – and I mean drenched to the bone and dripping like they had just been thrown in a swimming pool. I realized I was perhaps in deep shit for having run off with the woman’s kid. When I gave him back all she said was, to her son “the nice man saved you”.
But out of thirty people on that bridge, no one else even moved a muscle to avoid the water. My drowned-rat wife asked how I knew to run away. To me it was simple – I was able to calculate what was about to happen and was moving before the raft hit the water. Other folks froze, or moved far too late. I told her it was my Choctaw survival instincts at work (maybe that is in fact true!) – once I was able to stop laughing.
Movement is life in many, many situations.
God help me, I’m a hesitater like Skippy but I have picked up a couple of guys too dumb to get out of the heat.
Only way I’m jumping in the water is if it’s TE,
T$C i don’t know, I might remember she called me a FA. I’m over it but it just might come back to me at the last second.
In truth, it would be hard to live with the guilt or regret afterwards. Although you use good judgement, if you can do it, do so, otherwise leave it to a younger, stronger person.
We heard about the airmen who were killed because they reacted first. one guy on a ladder got electrocuted, a second tried to help and got electrocuted and the NCO tried to save both and died as well.
Larry Sears said that people rehearse what they are going to say.
The woman at church said rehearsing mentally what you would do is a worthwhile exercise: she said, make up your mind what you’ll do in case [she] were to take her clothes off in front of you, you can decide now whether to run and save yourself or you can decide to stay.
Mr Chen – TE would not need saving. She is a combo of Hot Lips and Diane Riggs – so she has her own set of water wings to save her from drowning.
[img]https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3756897280/hBE49E329/[/img]
If that is TE,I would try to save her. Seriously I think we only cross the bridge when we get to it. Don`t know.
If it were TE’s husband, that’s where you’d hit the moral dilemma.
TE, I think what really surprised the wife beating driver was “Why is Sheila E, Prince’s old drummer, pulling me out if my car?” Lol.
Stucky, would it be wrong to throw U my cell phone so U could call the Coast Guard?
If it was bb, is it wrong to throw him an anvil like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon?
Well, this one is 14 pages deep on the Diner now, and is STILL going.
Ashvin recently returned to the Diner, so we got the Fundy perspective on this in Full Regalia. We even got a Culminating Poll now on it because nobody is giving an inch on their logical, illogical or faith based arguments. LOL.
I won’t rehash everything I wrote in that thread, suffice it to say I am in complete agreement with Stucky.
Would I dive in for Stucky? Yea, I like him. I’d risk it. However, it would have to be the Old Me at 15 to 40 or so, when I still could have pulled a massive hulk of flesh like that from the water. Today, fuhggettaboudit.
A complete stranger? At 25% likelihood of dieing myself? About 50-50, it would depend on lots of stuff. If It was somebody’s kid and I saw mom on the beach screaming and in tears, I go in for sure. If it is just some Wino who got drunk and fell in, probably not.
If it is Dick Cheney? I stand on shore and Wave Goodbye, and take everybody else out on the beach out for a Beer afterwards. 🙂
RE
So my religious belief is roughly Christian if you want to pin it down but far more comfortable with the idea of Jesus’ teachings rather than the entrapping that comes with religion and others getting in the way with ‘their interpretation’
Anyways, I’m not sure my religious beliefs would affect my reaction to drowning, but you never know. For both A and B, I would jump in. Why? Because I’d really hope someone would for me if I was in that situation.
As for C. Screw ’em. Their actions have consequences.
I am somewhat flummoxed by several here who said that religious beliefs have little or nothing to do with their decision.
It’s not so much about agnostics/atheists and whether or not they have “morals”. Muck About answered that question quite well.
It has more to do with actual Christians. Here you have ample teachings by Jeebus about self-sacrifice, dying for others, doing good for others even when it hurts, loving your enemy, and so on. Christian teachings such as that SHOULD affect your decision, otherwise, what good are those teachings considering that quite often they are commands … not suggestions.
I would expect a Christian answer to all three scenarios to be an unqualified “Yes! I’d try to save the drowning person.” Apparently, I am wrong.
Wow Stuck, what an awesome thread!
I was thinking and talking about this with my son and his fiance last night. My son reminded me that he has seen me running towards a car fire to save an old man in his 80s, an old man that beat the living hell out of me with his cane but I still managed to get him out of the car before the interior started burning. I think he thought I was going to assault him, or steal his car, thankfully his wife informed him of what happened. My hope is that he never drove again before something worse happened to someone else.
Then my son reminded me that twice I’ve had to save children that were choking on food. Once years ago, it was my boyfriend’s son, and the other five adults, including a nurse, just sat open-mouthed and frozen. The other time was my darling baby girl, and I had to push her father out of my way and almost crush her aunt leaning over her to get to my choking baby. In both instances, the blockage was cleared, and I was already back in my seat with my dinner fork in my hand before any other adult did, or said, anything.
I’ve also saved a couple idiots from o’d’ing, and both my dad and a former employee when they were in diabetic shock and the rest of the world thought they were high or drunk.
In hindsight, I tend to do ok during high-stress situations. It is after the danger has passed that I curl up like a little baby, get the adrenal shakes, and cry.
But none of this really answers the question. I like to joke that I would have the “balls” to NOT save a POS. But, I know myself, and I really do not think that allowing someone to die when I could have done something to save them is something I can live with. And man, I sure can beat the hell out of myself, so that is a situation I strive to avoid.
The best thing to come from this discussion is the knowledge, and vocalization, from my son saying that if bad stuff has to happen, he just hopes it happens when mom is around. Man I love that “kid.”
@Muck, brilliant answer on the morality thing. Being moral because it is moral, instead of for rewards or punishments, what a thought!
That talk is just crazy coming from the land of Gala’s and Ball’s for “volunteers” and legions that “do good” just so they can tell others how great they all are. That is amoral, and insanity. At least in my not so humble opinion
Stucky, the thing is I don’t blindly follow the idioms given to us by the Book and/or God. Personally, I think it’d be a morally reprehensible act, even as a Christian, to save somebody who you know is doing great harm to the world. In a world where the ability to being an adult and freely make decisions is being slowly filtered away, I’d have thought you’d celebrate the fact that those of us with beliefs would critically think about the issue at hand and then decide. Even though it does say in the Bible ‘don’t judge lest you be judged’, I have to look at myself in the mirror and be able to accept who is staring back. While I’d like to think I could save C and persuade him to become a better person, I’m too cycnical and realistic to expect that. I guess that makes me a failed Christian but a free thinker but I’d prefer to have my eyes open.
“I’d have thought you’d celebrate the fact that those of us with beliefs would critically think about the issue at hand and then decide. ” ————– Blinky
Actually, I do celebrate it. I was thinking about the “average” Christian.
My experience is that most Christians stop thinking the longer they hold the faith. They will believe what their church and pastor tells them, usually without question.
People like yourself who … “don’t blindly follow the idioms given to us by the Book” …. are few and far between. Again, congrats.
TE – thought for sure my water wings comment would have drawn a sharp reply.
Anonymous (either 1 or 2): Morality is simply knowing right from wrong. (Which is a totally subjective evaluation of actions you and others take.) What hurts other life is immoral. Those actions that allow other life to flourish and be able to accomplish something with their life is moral. -MA
Yanno I am reminded of Platos Republic and the discussion Socrates was having about ‘Just’ and ‘righteous’ with Thrasymachus.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1962218/posts
I know what you mean with most ‘average’ Christians. Does my head in though I try to let it go. Like most have found on here, trying to get people to critically think about the world and the state its in is difficult at the best of times. Throw in blind religious belief and trust me, it gets harder 😛
I think there are very few ‘average’ Christians if any on this site. Not quite the target audience!
Off topic for Stucky….check out this picture of Saturn:
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140806.html
This is an image of Saturn’s north pole. Notice the enormous six sided hexagon that nearly fills the image. (the left side is obscured in darkness and slightly out of frame) Notice the turquoise colored storm circulating around the pole yet within the hexagon.
I’m pretty sure that one of the sensors on board Cassini was built from a substrate I polished.
Ah, Llpoh, why would it?
I can appreciate a gorgeous woman/bod as much as the next person. Beauty for the sake of beauty.
And yeah, I do have my own water wings, why, you jealous????? lol
@TE: 100
@LLPOH: 0
MA
Muck – my evil plan worked. I just wanted confirmation. Every time she posts I now get an image of Houlihan and Diana Riggs. Now where is Pirate Jo and Hope?
TE, hope, and PJ – the Holy Triumvirate. I will let you guess who is who:
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LLPOH, you don’t need confirmation. just go with your garter snake, if it’s pointing north, she’s HOT. Their all HOT and BRAINY here.