After reviewing the following charts I’ve concluded it is better to be rich than poor. There is no question the gap between the richest and poorest is widening. The facts show the rich getting richer, the poor staying poor, and the middle class becoming poorer. You’ll be happy to know pleasure aircraft was the fastest-growing category of all consumer spending in 2013. I guess those food stamp users are living it up.
The facts don’t lie. The lies happen when you ask people why.
Why is this happening?
This is a sign of a third world country. We need a large inheritance tax.
Is it wrong to take from others? Even after they have passed on?
If you want a society ruled by dynastys, than allow the rich to pass on their riches to their progeny.
How does a society allow someone to have so much money (shit paper) that they can literally claim all resources in the world? Or at least a small army of rich? Especially since this “money” is created from debt that enslaves us all. The end game to the Fed scheme is that one will end up with everything and everyone else begs for life. It’s no different than a King, Queen, Monarch or Dictator laying claim to all he/she wants or is “entitled” to.
Of course LLPOH will correct me. Or should I call him Richie Rich?
WIP: Would you think the same way if you were rich?
I was once poor(ish.)
Out of college, married, all debt, no equity, cash-flowing every month.
I’m no longer poor. I live in a small house (paid off.) I drive cars until they fall apart. I live massively below my means.
I am no longer poor. By some measures, I’m pretty well off.
WHY on EARTH, if my wife and I die now, SHOULD THE ZOMBIE HORDE get my wealth (via an inheritance tax?)
wip, I will say this: F you and the horse you rode in on. An inheritance tax? You think that will reduce the dynastic wealth of the world? Grow UP! The only people to whom it would be applied are those too poor to buy senators and congressmen, people like me!
Throughout ALL HISTORY the wealthy have controlled the ruling system. The only way the little guy has a tiny chance of getting ahead is to STARVE that system down to a skinny little parasite instead of the massive, obliterate-the-sun-with-its-shadow parasite under which we labor now.
My God, how naive does one have to be to posit a TAX, the life-blood of politics, as a cure to the disease of politics!
You want less oligarchy? Cut taxes, cut spending, reduce the reach of legislators, Drive The Bums Out of Office! In reality, the ONLY thing any of us can ever do is take the Atlas Shrugged Option (ASO) and sit down, do next to nothing (nothing at all that is taxable) and stop paying for our own subjugation.
I figure when the Bust we have on deck gets up to bat, sitting down and earning no more money will be MY ONLY CHOICE, as my job hangs on by a thread as it is.
I chose NOT to spend my money. I saved it, for my wife and me or for our sons and grandkids. If that becomes fodder for some THIEF, whether free-lance or official (trying to change the rules, i.e., a “wealth tax”) then LOOK OUT. Lead may get airborne.
The wealthy are getting wealthier as the SPX rises parabolically.
What goes up parabolically comes down vertically. Find a chart of the NASDAQ 1996 through 2002 to see a round trip.
Whether the top was last week, next week, next month, or next year, sooner than later stocks will hit apogee and the selling will ensue.
All this hand-wringing about the “wealthy” will be so much “yesterday’s news.” People will be much more worried about getting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads than to worry whether surgeons, lawyers and investment bankers are buying Cessna aircraft.
Which is worse: Going from paycheck to paycheck (two paychecks) to paycheck to paycheck (one paycheck) or going from ten million dollars net worth to $200,000 (and having an $800,000 mortgage)?
I don’t know about anyone else, but the prospect of having given up a whole lot of enjoyment by being as “saver” would really piss me off if what I’ve saved were to disappear into an economic/financial vortex.
(For the record I own ZERO stocks. I haven’t trusted this rally at all, whether that makes me a fool or not I don’t care.)[img]http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=COMP&uf=0&type=2&size=3&sid=3291&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&startdate=1/4/1996&enddate=1/5/2003&rand=1731143801&compidx=aaaaa%3a0&ma=5&maval=13&lf=4&lf2=32&lf3=256&height=820&width=720&mocktick=1[/img]
I agree with wip and dc. Amazing, given their opposing positions.
Re inheritance taxes, I am all for them on the dynastically wealthy – say above a billion. That preserves dc’s money while killing off the dynasties. In theory I oppose taking wealth, but much of the dynastic wealth is not honestly earned, so I will be a realist and say take a big hunk from the megawealthy. And do not let them hide it in trusts.
Re dc – I am all for his solutions too.
I would go for a combo of both.
Sorry for the size of the Nasdaq COMP above, but compare the “before top” period to this chart of the Dow Transportation Average and tell me that we’re not in the same kind of unidirectional melt-up parabola.
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=DJT&uf=0&type=2&size=2&sid=1644&style=320&freq=2&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=13&rand=1711599497&compidx=aaaaa%3a0&ma=5&maval=13&lf=4&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=335&width=579&mocktick=1
I would not support an inheritance tax except on the megawealthy. Doctors, lawyers, small business folks, etc., should be able to keep it all, and disperse it as they see fit. Those made wealthy via the political process should be taxed heavily.
Llpoh, it sounds great (I know, we’re just spitballing here, no politicians will ever do any of this) but I also point out the pure evil dumped on us by the “philanthropic trusts” established by the Great Billionaires (Gates, most recently, but also Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie, etc.)
Long after those assholes are dead, the leftists they put in charge of their “charities” are out undermining every decent thing in the world, and are completely unaccountable to anyone anywhere.
Big money always equals concentrations of political power, and concentrations of political power always translate to horrors heaped on horrors.
The big foundations have funded wars on drugs, wars on alcohol, wars on driving without seat belts and a host of other things that left us with this HUGE police state where everything everyone does is 100% the purview of Big Nanny and her gun-wielding thugs-in-uniform enforcers. They have supported “nation-building” and a host of other murderous interventions around the world, all feeding a military industrial complex that somehow must feed back into the foundations’ stock holdings.
I don’t know what the answer is.
There is no stopping people who amass enough wealth to seize control of the (always corrupt) political apparatus. The only “good” thing is that the USA’s hegemony is about over, and so some other nation or people will have to rise up to be the world’s murderous bully. As an American, I’m frankly tired of civilizing foreigners by creating corpses in quantity.
Lipoh , I see you left yourself out of your thieving schemes (small business) just like the Kennedy’s. You have much in common with those pale faces who speak with twisted tongue. You injuns learn from the best .
If I were mega-wealthy and there was an inheritance tax I would employ my children/grandchildren giving them a very large salary to sharpen my pencils every day.
The rich will always find loopholes when it comes to taxes.
Leo – those salaries would draw high tax, under current law.
The loopholes are largely why I support an inheritance tax on the megawealthy – it may be the only means of recovering what they have gained via the loopholes.
@LLPOH
Well I didn’t see that coming (your response).
The way I see it, it’s the solution that is the least corrupt.
Sure, it’s good to be rich. I agree with that, but with reservations and comments.
wip writes, “We need a large inheritance tax.”
Why? Should the governemnt be allowed to take money from those, like me, who’ve lived spare, spent little, and saved a lot and then give my money to spendthrifts, dones, and themselves? Agree or disagree?
But then, what about those RBs (rich bastards) who, with government protection and favored legislation, have amassed millions? Or, what about others in protected or favored occupations, who can, by strong-arm, demand – usually government supported – and collect income? Do they deserve protection or should the same government who protected them take Caesar’s share of their wealth when they die?
Another thought, this time about the middle road – Let’s take Administrator as a typical American example. As I see it, JQ’s an average guy with a much above average drive who, without help from corporate employers, has worked hard, still struggles, and is planning for his future. As I see it JQ is a worker bee and not a grasshopper. So let’s say JQ’s especially savvy or lucky and his Kulpsville house, his Wildwood condo, and his other investments skyrocket or just leave him comfortable. Should JQ get to keep what he and Avalon have struggled to earn and keep, and pass it along to their kids, or should the governments’ inheritance taxes, as wip suggests, get a big share of the Quinn stash so that the food stamp users and the government favored rich live better? What do you think?
Jackson – I do not see folks wanting to tax the hard working Admin’s of the world – not on this site anyway.
We are after a way to prevent dynastic political and economic power. A tax on the megawealthy is an option. It is imperfect, and would not be necessary if wealth did not influence political policy.
We all believe, I am sure, in the sanctity of personal property. But the fact is wealth buys politicians and policy, which generates more wealth, and the power and wealth is handed down generation to generation. If just the wealth were handed down, I would likely not care. But it is tied to political power, and that cycle must be broken. If you strip the wealth you strip the power.
What everyone who responded to my first comment missed (except LLPOH) is, I was talking about dynastic wealth.
Suggested Inheritance Tax Scale:
Same scale should apply to direct gifts, which right now are heavily taxable, about 55% for amounts $10,000 and over.
$0- $5,000,000- no tax
$5M- $20M – 39%
$20M- $50M – 55%
$50M- $100M – 65%
$100M and over 75%
Right now, the inconsistancies and injustices are almost laughable. If a relative hands me $11K as a gift, or some man gives me a diamond worth $75K, I owe a gift tax higher than the current inheritance tax for inheritances over $1M.
I am very mixed on the inheritance tax. However, ILpoh is correct- dynastic wealth has too much influence politically, and a society run by it favors policies favorable to the “rentier” class rich, but punitive for real producers- entrepreneurs who cannot compete with established rackets protected by laws and policies dictated by incumbent fortunes (such as the Wirz and Duchessois families of IL, to name two minor examples.)
Paris Hilton inherited millions – if not billions – absolutely tax free.
The poor bastard union guy that buys a couple rental homes, a summer home and his main residence, along with his life insurance leaves his family months of headaches with the IRS and eventually one house if they are lucky.
This is how our current inheritance taxes are levied.
Just like with our gift taxes, the very rich get to avoid them, us littler guys get hammered.
Once I’ve paid my freaking taxes the government – from that point forward – just have NO say as to what I do with my money. NONE.
Inheritance taxes are taxing the wealth you’ve already paid taxes on. Gift taxes do the exact same thing.
Jealous and covetous people want their share.
As for the divide, well no shit. ALL laws are set up to make the rich richer. ALL rules allow them loopholes the likes of Llpoh doesn’t get. Offshoring allowed them to lobby for regulations that will crush their American competition while continuing production of their own Asian made/American branded products.
And we argue about stealing more money to cover the insanity the first thefts didn’t pay for.
Punishing success will never work. Leveling the GD playing field would.
Wouldn’t want to consider that, it is so much easier to steal someone else’s stuff.
@TE
I’m confused. You start off with Paris Hilton and end with “don’t steal other people’s stuff”.
Something for nothing (inherited wealth) ends badly in the long run.
Paris will go thru that inheritance like a addict with 2 million dollar a day habit then be caught at Kohls shoplifting while screaming at the clerk, “Do You Know Who I Am?!?!”
TE – you cannot level the playing field without dealing with the wealth that was created from the unlevel field.
Most megawealthy have gained much of their wealth from the unlevel field. Their advantage is enormous, even if you could level the field from here forward.
No one posting here is suggesting taxing anyone but those who have gained their wealth dishonestly, and who are vastly wealthy owing to the manipulation of the system.
If the playing field were level, and the dynasties were broken up, there would be no need for an inheritance tax. But the field will never be level.
So it is all an exercise in futility. .
There s so much wrong with the US tax system, it cannot be fixed. It needs to be thrown out, and a reboot don.
For instance, in the modern global economy, the US isthe only country that taxes its citizens and its corporations on money they earn overseas. The perversions this causes is huge. And rather than address that issue, the politicians scream “stop the inversions”. The inversions would not exist save for the stupidity of the system where they tax money earned overseas in the US. So the money never comes back to the US, and companies get the hell out of the US as soon as they can. A global company based in the US is at such disadvantage, I am surprised any global US companies remain. Those that do keep their foreign earnings perched overseas so as to avoid paying additional tax. So huge investment opportunities are lost.
Show me an Egyptian King, or any King, that managed to take his gold with them when they passed to Orions belt when their soul left their physical state.