HOW did they KNOW ???

I’m posting this amazing story with this question in my mind: “What do we REALLY know about humanity’s  distant past?”.

I would suggest “virtually nothing that is accurate”.  Hell … we can’t even get an accurate reading of recent history, such as, what a tyrant Honest Abe was, or even more recently, why that total sonuvabitch, Wilson, led us into WWI. What hope is there for truly knowing what transpired 6,000 years ago?

I recall reading a book about maps whereby the author stated that there are maps published 16th century which show Antarctica and Northern Greenland—lands no explorer of that time could have reached. The maps show an accurate coastline that is now under a mile of ice … a coastline verified as true only due to modern RADAR technology.  These maps, in turn, are based on maps made by Alexander The Great, around 350BC.

Is the “myth” of Atlantis based on actual fact? I think so. At a minimum, it sure is possible. Was the Great Pyramid at Giza built by an advanced culture using technology we don’t even know about?  Possibly.  How do we know they did not?

Soooo … here comes this amazing artifact from about 1,600BC. Try to enjoy the read, and the implications.

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Incredible discovery of the oldest depiction of the universe almost lost to the black market

The design on this disc might look like a six-year-old’s scribbles, but in reality, it’s one of the most sophisticated and influential artifacts of the Bronze Age.

And it might never have been discovered if not for a couple of illegal treasure hunters who dug it up and sold it on the black market.

Called the Nebra sky disc, named for the town where it was found in 1999, the artifact has been dated back to 1600 BC. It’s thought to have been forged during the European Bronze Age, a period between 3200 and 600 BC.

The disc’s discovery stunned archaeologists, who thought of the Bronze Age as brutal, uncivilized times of killing and little else — most artifacts we’ve found are swords and other weapons designed for battle.

The disc is about one foot across and weighs nearly five pounds. When it was first crafted, it would have shone a brilliant golden brown because the disc itself is made from bronze. But over time, the bronze corroded to green.

The symbols are made of gold and didn’t corrode. Although experts do not agree on what each symbol represents, for example the full circle could be the sun, full moon, or some type of eclipse, the overall message is clear that the symbols represent celestial objects.

This disc meant that the people of the Bronze Age were not an uncivilized culture that only crafted weapons for killing. Instead, the people who lived at this time had an intellectual understanding of the sky.

Police-Led Sting For The Find Of The Century

For millennia, the disc was buried in the Seigelroda Forest in the German state of Saxony-Anhalt near a town called Nebra. But in 1999, two men, Henry Westphal and Mario Renner, were hunting for buried treasure in the forest when their metal detectors led them to an underground stash. They uncovered two bronze swords, two hatchets, a chisel, fragments of bracelets, and the beautifully decorated disc.

4tuneQkie on Flickr

According to state law in Saxony-Anhalt, all archaeological artifacts are the property of the state. Westphal and Renner had no license to dig for artifacts of any kind, and no legal right to the collection. But that didn’t stop them from selling everything they found on the black market.

Over the next few years the entire collection became a well-known commodity and was traded multiple times on the black market selling for up to one million Deutsch Mark (roughly $590,000). Then, in 2002, archaeologist Herald Meller arranged a meeting with the current holders to purchase the disc, alone, for 700,000 DM ($350,000). But the meeting was not what it seemed.

Meller was collaborating with the state police to recover the priceless artifacts, and within seconds of the dealers’ reveal of the disc, the police swooped in and arrested them. Eventually, the disc was traced back to Westphal and Renner who were sentenced to jail time.

Spotting A Fake

Archeologists were stunned when they finally got a good, close look at the artifact. The Nebra sky disc was unlike any other artifact of its time. Some archaeologists thought the disc was too incredible to be real.

“When I first heard about the Nebra Disc I thought it was a joke, indeed I thought it was a forgery,” Richard Harrison told the BBC in a documentary of the disc. Harrison is a professor of European prehistory at the University of Bristol and expert on the culture that inhabited Germany during the Bronze Age. “Because it’s such an extraordinary piece that it wouldn’t surprise any of us that a clever forger had cooked this up in a backroom and sold it for a lot of money.”

The disc was sent to the laboratory of Heinrich Wunderlich at the Museum of Halle in Eastern Germany. Heinrich specializes in dating artifacts from the Bronze age. If the disc was a fake, he could easily find out by studying the greenish bronze covering the disc.

Bronze disease is the corrosive process that occurs when chloride molecules, such as chloride salts in soil, interact with bronze (or other copper-based materials). The result is a chemical reaction producing microscopic crystals that look either white or green. Over time, these crystals grow larger, which means that Wunderlich could easily spot a forgery by looking at the size of the crystals.

When he looked under the microscope, he saw large crystals, which resembled large bubbles, shown in the image below, that spoke to the disc’s authenticity. It was no fake.

“When I saw down the microscope, I saw structure which was like bubbles,” Wunderlich told BBC. “This can not be made artificially. You can’t fake time.

BBC

Secrets Of The Nebra Sky disc

Scientists have dated the disc to the time it was buried underground, but they don’t know exactly when it was made. It was buried about 3,600 years ago but could be much older.

In addition to its age, the precise meaning of the disc eludes explanation. But an expert in Bronze Age religions, Miranda Aldhouse Green, at Cardiff University in the UK, has put together a general picture of what it might have meant for the people who used it thousands of years ago.

Below is a labeled version of the disc, but you’ll have to translate some of the words since they’re in German.

Gerhard Singer on Flickr

There are six objects of importance depicted on the disc:

  • Sun (or full Moon or a type of solar or lunar eclipse)
  • Crescent Moon
  • Sun Boat
  • Pleiades Constellation
  • Left arc
  • Right arc

It makes sense that the full circle slightly left of center would be the sun, Green said in the BBC documentary, “The sun is absolutely central to northern European Bronze Age religion. There’s a clear connection between the sun and life. If the sun disappears then life comes to an end.”

And the crescent shape is likely a crescent moon. In ancient times, the moon was used to represent time, and, “if you can control time, and if you understand time, then you are a powerful, a powerful human being,” Green said.

Then there’s the smiley-shaped band beneath the sun and moon, which Green suspects is the sun boat — an ancient holy symbol. Bronze Age Europeans believed that the sun traveled on a sun boat when it set at night.

The smaller circles speckled across the disc seem to represent stars. In particular, the concentrated clump between the sun and moon are thought to be the Pleiades constellation, which was an important constellation for Bronze Age farmers because it first appeared in March and disappeared in October — important farming times.

“We know from Greek writers that the Pleiades were used as an agricultural marker, so that farmers knew when they should do certain agricultural activities,” Green said. “So what the Nebra disc does is to tell people not only the right time to plant and harvest but it is the blessed time to do it.”

The left and right arcs on either side of the disc have an additional agricultural importance and were crucial in helping scientists determine that the disc was European-made.

The Dawn Of European Civilization

After analyzing these fairly simple explanations, archaeologists around the world started asking other questions: What did the arcs represent? Was the disc actually an artifact forged by Bronze Age Europeans? Or was it from another culture and managed to make its way into Germany by some unknown means?

It was astronomer Wolfhard Schlosser, at the University of Hamburg, who made the connection. He found that if you draw a line from the center of the disc to the top and bottom end of the right arc, the angle between the two ends measures exactly 82 degrees. And it’s the same value for the left golden arc.

This number is very important for only a small group of people who live at the same latitude as the current German town of Nebra. That’s because it’s the angle between where the sun sets on the horizon in mid-winter and mid-summer.

“The angle between both is precisely eighty two degrees,” Schlosser told BBC. “This angle responds to the journey of the sun between summer and winter for this specific latitude right here in Nebra.”

Seattle.roamer on Flickr

Although Schlosser’s find offered compelling evidence that the disc was crafted in Europe, the only way to determine beyond any doubt was to discover where the metals came from.

Archaeologist Ernst Pernicka further investigated the copper within the bronze. Copper has a unique fingerprint that Pernicka used to compare copper in Bronze Age mines versus Mediterranean metals. From this, he traced the disc’s metal to a European mine, confirming that the disc was manufactured from European metal and was not a gift crafted by another culture.

After millennia under ground and years on the black market, the disc today is safe and on public display at the State Museum of Prehistory in Halle, Germany.

In 2013, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization inducted the disc into their Memory of the World Register stating:

The bronze disc is considered to be one of the most important archaeological finds of the 20th Century. It combines an extraordinary comprehension of astronomical phenomena with the religious beliefs of its period, that enable unique glimpses into the early knowledge of the heavens.

,

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/22/incredible-discovery-of-the-oldest-depiction-of-the-universe-almost-lost-to-the-black-market/

 

Author: Stucky

I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it.

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Billy
Billy

I have held the belief that humanity – and civilization – is much older than archaeologists believe. On one hand, you have scientists telling us Homo Sapiens – people just like us – is 200,000 years old. On the other hand, you have archaeologists telling us “civilization” is only about 6,000 years old…

So… my question is “What happened to the other 194,000 years?” We were all just cave dwellers, chucking pointy sticks at animals and scavenging berries?

Since science is proof-driven, it is right and proper to ask where the proof is of much older civilizations… but, there have been several major glaciations over the last 200,000 years. If you drive a mile thick glacier over something for several millennia, there’s not going to be much left to examine. Additionally, most of humanity lives near water. Our ancestors were no different. Thing is, any remains left for examination are going to be under several hundred feet of water, given the level of the seas so long ago…

Sites like Gobeki Tepe are not popular, since they challenge directly what “everyone knows”… it’s dated to 10,000 BC – right when the “experts” tell us we were savages, hurling sticks at our dinner and running from predators. It even predates crop domestication, to listen to the ‘experts’…

Gobekli Tepe is truly massive. It is thousands of years older than the Great Pyramids at Giza. The thing is, if we were all supposed to be nomadic savages, how did the place get built?

You would need a workforce the size of an army. And a means to supply that army of workers. You need understanding of engineering, astronomy, metallurgy for tools, animal and crop domestication, a sophisticated hierarchical societal structure… in short, you would need a “civilization” to produce such a thing, yet the “experts” tell us it was built before “civilization” existed…

Still, I’m glad they got the disk back… it’s pretty cool.

And it makes the “experts” eat a nice portion of crow… yum yummy!

Zarathustra

Chauvet Cave in France was buried in an avalanche 29,000 years ago and only discovered recently. While the art is beautiful, it is clear that the people who created it were spear chuckers and berry eaters, and probably worshiped the cave bear as their god. But then they were french…

Overthecliff
Overthecliff

No doubt about it. I have received the whole story from Art Bell and George Noory.

bb

Between the time of Sin and the time of Noah ‘s flood you had maybe hundreds if not thousands of years. A civilization did appear that was totally given over to evil. It may have been well advanced. Only the Lord knows.The bible itself is unclear about that period.Good thought provoking article Stucky.

Zarathustra

I could make a platter with dinners leftovers splattered over it and some idiot could connect the bits to stars. I officially declare this thread to be bullshit.

Zarathustra

PS, the bronze age was not anymore brutal than any other, ever hear of the Minoans?

Olga
Olga

For all the Michiganders …

Michigan Copper in the Mediterranean

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/WakefieldJS1.php?p=1

IndenturedServant

A better question might be “How could they NOT know?” Without 210 channels of crap on TV/Cable or multiple forms of iCrap in their faces 24/7 and a lack of books, school and abundant flick of the switch lighting that comes on before it ever gets dark, how the hell could they not know about astronomy?

I’ll grant that most people probably had their hands full hunting, gathering, farming, making clothing, maintaining shelter and warding off wild animals and even wilder humans but how could most people not have a good working knowledge of the cyclical events going on in the sky above them?

Astronomy influenced every life back then (as it does now) and even the village bb probably knew more about the sky above them than the majority of people alive today. The sad reality is that there are millions of kids up to age 10 or even twenty who have never even seen a star in our modern times.

I believe that peoples lives revolved as much around astronomy, crude as it was back then, as it did around keeping themselves fed.

I also think that humans in ancient times were much smarter and craftier than modern experts give them credit for.

Billy
Billy

Okay, I might have butted heads with Olga and T4C before, but in this we are allied.

T4C’s rebuttal to Z about past extinction events nails it. Something happens – such as the meteor that struck the North American ice sheet 13,000 years ago which wiped out a great deal of life in North America, including the early humans – the Solutreans – and even an entire species of tree went extinct.

It can happen, and has happened…

Humanity has risen and fallen many times, I think, and there are tantalizing clues left around the world, like bread crumbs….

Olga is right, that copper from an ancient mine in Michigan has been traced to the Med. Traces of coca have been found in Egyptian mummies – thing is, the coca plant is only grown in South America. In India, there is evidence that thousands of years ago, a certain area was bombed much like Hiroshima, complete with skeletons with serious thermal damage and showing elevated levels of radiation…..

If there is one thing that is certain, is that our own history is uncertain…

Until it is understood that we in fact are not alone… – T4C

I am not this guy…

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But, I would like to hear a plausible explanation for the following:

Around dawn on April 14, 1561, residents of Nuremberg saw what they described as an aerial battle, followed by the appearance of a large black triangular object and then a large crash outside of the city. According to witnesses, there were hundreds of spheres, cylinders and other odd-shaped objects that moved erratically overhead.[1][2][3][4][5]

A broadsheet news article was printed on April 14, 1561 describing the event. The broadsheet, illustrated with a woodcut engraving and text by Hans Glaser, measures 26.2 centimetres (10.3 in) by 38.0 centimetres (15.0 in). The document is archived in the prints and drawings collection at the Zentralbibliothek Zürich in Zurich, Switzerland.[6]

The broadsheet describes objects of various shapes including crosses, globes, two lunar crescents, a black spear and tubular objects from which several smaller, round objects emerged and darted around the sky at dawn.[7]

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IndenturedServant

Olga, thanks for the excellent link re: Michigan copper. I’ve know about this theory for some time now but never seen this article.

flash
flash

hmmm.. maybe humans have cooked off a civilization or two in the past and are now back in the time loop lining up for a repeat.?

Mysterious Archaeological Discoveries That Science Can’t Explain! #8 Is Really Scary!

http://wereblog.com/discoveries-that-science-cant-explain

8.) Radioactive Human Remains.

Found in two Ancient Indian/Pakistan Cities. The two cities are Harrapa and Mohenjo-Daro. Strange as this sounds but the radioactive level of dozens of bodies and melting, fusing and crystallizing of bricks and surrounding materials actually indicate a nuclear bomb or some kind of blast explosion. Today, scientists know of no other ways this damage could have been caused by other than a nuclear weapon.

Read more: Veda | image: source

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flash
flash

http://veda.wikidot.com/ancient-city-found-in-india-irradiated-from-atomic-blast

Consider these verses from the ancient (6500 BC at the latest) Mahabharata:

…a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour…
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds…
…the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols…

..it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
…The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognisable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.

After a few hours
All foodstuffs were infected…
…to escape from this fire
The soldiers threw themselves in streams
To wash themselves and their equipment.

card802
card802

Most here believe in turnings.

What if there are minor turning events that last 20 years each within mega turning events that last a thousand years each?

The mega fourth turnings wipe out civilizations and most evidence of their existence. The human race that is left picks itself up and tries to succeed again, and again, and again like a never ending loop.

During the first mega turning the survivors start over with nothing, the strongest are the only ones to survive. The strongest men spend their days tracking and killing animals to cook at night, slowly growing the population and soon tribes begin to form.

During the second mega turning other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the stronger men by showing up for the nightly cookouts and doing the sweeping, sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. Yes, the start of the liberal movement, or girly men.

During the third mega turning these girly men multiply rapidly as the liberal women have three times the testosterone levels of girly men and fuck anything that moves. Liberal girly men become a majority, they drink white wine rather than beer, they invent group hugs to cry over their discovery that meat does not come from a store, they invent group therapy to comprehend that to eat meat, the animal must be killed first, and finally the concept of majority rules voting to decide how to divide the meat that the stronger men provided.

Mega fourth turning event, and start over again……

Rise Up
Rise Up

Thanks for posting this, Stucky. Ancient, “pre-history” societies and cultures are one of my biggest interests. I believe this earth has had many high-technology cultures prior to today. Human existence is obviously not linear w/regard to technology and intelligence.

dilligaf

I am going to throw this into the mix…..

Rise Up
Rise Up

@T4C: “There have been ‘extinction events’ before. What does that mean though? It basically means it was kinda sorta an extinction; meaning not EVERYTHING nor EVERYONE died.”

You must have read Velikosky’s “Worlds in Collision” and/or “Earth in Upheaval”. Classic
refutations of uniformitarianism in favor of cathastrophism.

@Billy: “Around dawn on April 14, 1561, residents of Nuremberg saw what they described as an aerial battle, followed by the appearance of a large black triangular object and then a large crash outside of the city. According to witnesses, there were hundreds of spheres, cylinders and other odd-shaped objects that moved erratically overhead.”

The NASA video below shows what COULD be space wars. Some of the streaks appear to move out of our atmosphere and are not falling meteors. There is a better vid out there that shows better movement of objects that seem to be battling each other but my quick YouTube search didn’t find it.
The action starts about a minute into this 2 1/2 minute vid.

Rise Up
Rise Up

Here’s the video I was looking for. Watch at about 1:36 as the object in the upper center moving right-to-left suddenly makes an abrupt 45 degree turn to the right. Realize this object must be traveling at an incredible speed. One of ours? or “theirs”?

Rise Up
Rise Up

Oh yeah, did you see something streak towards it right after it turned? Indication of a threat perceived and an avoidance tactic?

Hope@ZeroKelvin
Hope@ZeroKelvin

@Stuck: another great thread – you are really on a roll lately!

@IS: I’m with you. Ancient man lived very close to the Earth. They had to understand, in minute detail, their environment, the weather, the seasons, etc, in order to survive. There was not a 7-11 just around the corner in case the harvest failed or the bison evaded the hunters, lol.

Just because these ancient peoples did not have “germs, guns and steel” does not mean that they were stupid or unsophisticated. Just the reverse.

Look up the Antikythera mechanism, built 205 BC with 30 intermeshing gears in a complexity not seen in Europe until the 1300s.

Or research the Cumbe Mayo aquaduct constructed at 11K feet in 1500 BC in Peru.

All those ancient megaliths like Gobekli Tepi, Machu Picchu, etc, are just mind boggling.

It is to laugh: So-called modern man which spends his time with his head stuck up his MSM/internet created ASS, completely oblivious to, and unappreciative of, the millions of miracles which make his pampered existence happen on a minute to minute basis AND who, when all the modern goodies goes way will be dead in about 3 days!

Billy
Billy

@ Rise,

I’ve seen those before elsewhere… stuff dodging out of the way is indicative of intelligence.

I don’t remember the exact formula used, but there is a mathematical equation one can use to estimate the number of intelligent civilizations in the galaxy. Depending on which numbers you plug in, the number of intelligent civilizations just in the Milky Way alone is somewhere between several thousand and a few million.

The big question is why they would want to mess with a relatively obscure mudball in what is essentially “Dirtville” or “The Sticks” and inhabited by a peculiar species of hairless ape who seems to be pre-occupied with amassing bits of paper and killing each other… might as well be playing “Duelling Banjos” when they show up…

See? Directions to Earth include the words “Turn off the paved road…”…

Billy
Billy

Oops… wrong button…

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Middle… of… nowhere…

WRM
WRM

I have an “Occam’s Razor” (simple) theory about those iceless Antarctic maps – that portion of Antarctica was simply not covered with ice when the map(s) were drawn 6-7k years ago. The Earth rotated about a different axis due to cyclical galactic gravitational forces that produced a polar axis shift.

I hastily recorded my “Isaiah Shift” (polar axis shift) theory after the original presentation was deleted from a forum discussion. Phenomenon is Biblical in name only.

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Billy
Billy

Then there’s flat-out creepy shit like that bell thing the Germans made during WWII… supposedly used mercury – or a version of it – that glowed magenta. I think we snatched that shit at the end of WWII.

Or the US making an entire destroyer disappear (killing several and driving others mad) based on shit Einstein came up with…

Or “Ununpentium” – Element 115 – which was outed back during the late 80’s by Bob Lazar – the scientific community denied such a thing existed, then they “discovered” it not long ago – and the properties it has are almost identical to what Lazar said…

I think the level of tech that we have right now is far, far beyond what most people consider to be cutting edge… not saying we have FTL capability, but I think we know how to warp space and cross vast distances on our own…

Lysander
Lysander

To me, the most in-your-face artifact that shows that what we know about history is all wrong, is the great pyramid at Giza. All manner of amazing out of place/out of time objects and sites have been found all over the world, but all one needs to see is the great pyramid. It’s an impossibility that is there, just sitting right before your eyes.
To believe that bronze age desert dwellers built that thing is akin to believing that those people used magic. We would find it very, very difficult today, if not impossible, to replicate it today with modern machines and a unlimited budget.
I think that it’s a giant message saying “HEY! LOOK AT THIS FUCKING THING” from a civilization several hundred of thousands of years ago, who realized the cycle of destruction this planet goes through every so often and wanted to leave something that would last for future mankind that would be such an anomaly, so outrageously obvious that it couldn’t be ignored.

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