THEY SAID GO TO COLLEGE

When I graduated from college in 1986 it was easy to get a job. The economy was booming and 82% of college graduates had a job. The other 18% were probably raising kids because their college educated spouse made enough to raise a family. The mantra for my entire life has been – go to college and you’ll get a good paying job. It seems something went wrong on the road to riches. The percentage of college graduates with jobs has been falling for the last 30 years and has been plummeting since 2008. It is now at an all-time low of 74.3%. Shouldn’t these people have obtained jobs since the government tells us the unemployment rate has dramatically dropped from 10% to 5.5% since 2009?

Bachelor Degree Labor Force Participation

Not only is college graduate labor participation at record lows, but those getting jobs didn’t need a college degree in the first place to get that job, in the majority of cases. A new Careerbuilder survey indicates that though the majority of Class of 2014 college graduates are currently working, 51% of that group are in jobs that don’t require a degree. This is up dramatically from the 38% found in the 2010 US Census survey. The Careerbuilder survey also found that only 36% of 2014 college graduates had obtained full-time permanent jobs. The findings are as follows:

  • 65 percent of recent college grads are employed (of these, 36 percent are in full-time, permanent positions; 17 percent are in part-time, permanent positions; and 12 percent are in temporary/contract positions). Fifty-one percent are in jobs related to their college major.
  • 4 percent are in internships.
  • 31 percent are not working at all (although many in this group haven’t started their job search or are already back in school to pursue a higher degree). Of this group, not even half (43 percent) say they’re currently looking for a job.
  • Only 44 percent expect to make more than $30,000 their first year out of college.

 

So we have less and less college graduates being employed, a majority of college graduates ending up with jobs that don’t require a college degree, many getting part-time temp jobs, and even if they get a job their wages are low. What did Obama and his minions do in 2009? They take over the entire student loan program for the country and proceed to dole out $600 billion of new student loans to anyone who could fog a mirror, let alone add or subtract. Millions have been lured into irreversible chains of debt over the last six years in order for Obama to artificially lower the reported unemployment rate, while pumping billions into consumer spending through a devious backdoor method. Now the brilliant summa cum laude graduates of the University of Phoenix are pouring into the marketplace with $30,000 of student loan debt and interviews at Ruby Tuesday, Texas Roadhouse, and TGI Fridays.

Student loan debt has surpassed $1.3 trillion and the American taxpayer is now on the hook. At least 30% of the outstanding debt is already in default or deferral. The students are left with a debt burden that can’t be written off by declaring bankruptcy, very few jobs in their fields of study, wages that can barely cover the debt payments, and no chance of ever owning a home. They were told by their parents, politicians, and the mainstream media that college was the path to prosperity. They were lied to.

The Federal Reserve and the politicians in Washington D.C. have destroyed our economy with their debt based solutions and vast array of laws, regulations, and taxes, which have drained the life out of our financial system. The number of good paying new jobs for college graduates will continue to decline, but the amount of government backed student loans continues to go up by $5 billion per month. Those who have been unwittingly convinced college was a great idea, will pay for the rest of their lives. Or at least until the $500 billion taxpayer bailout when future president Clinton or Bush decides to relieve the burden of potential voters in a future election. Our hole is deep, but we just keep digging deeper. And the vested interests get richer as students and taxpayers go deeper into debt. They like the system just as it is.

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Llpoh
Llpoh

Steph – forestry is best in the pacific NW. Fast growing pines and such suit forestry better than hardwoods.

Stephanie Shepard

Llpoh- The pacific NW is over populated with hipsters. They just ain’t the right stock for the job. Also, I still think college is not relevant to 90% of the students who attend. The universities need the students, the students don’t need their facilities I favor self education, online site like Coursera, trade schools, apprenticeships, and professional certification. The other 10% are the only ones left who need the University for its facilities such as academic and those who need labs.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Steph – when serious students come together, it can produce exceptional results.

I get your point. But I think there is a place for college. Just not as it currently is in general.

College is a place for good, serious students. And for no others.

Stephanie Shepard

I’m not talking about serious or not. The only ones who should be in college are the ones who need to use their facilities. The multi-million dollar resources need for certain professions. Another issue with colleges are you physically have to go there and your education is dictated by their schedule. This was a huge problem for me while I was in college. I could just set aside 4 years to dedicate to focusing on college. I hate the semester model.

llpoh
llpoh

Steph – social interaction is important. Serious students benefit in many ways being around other serious students, no matter the field. College provides that interaction. It is not for everyone, but it is extremely important.

For example, the Impressionists effectively created a “college” of there own. They learned from each other and drove each other along. So it is in many fields.

Stephanie Shepard

So, young people should go to college to socialize?

llpoh
llpoh

“Social interaction is the process by which we act and react to those around us. In a nutshell, social interaction includes those acts people perform toward each other and the responses they give in return.”

Steph, please do not be stupid. Your comment was ridiculous.

Stephanie Shepard

I think you should dwell on what you just typed. You just said people should go to college to socialize.

Joan C
Joan C

I would not want to be a college student today unless I were in STEM. I was easy to find a job when I graduated in 1966 because a degree still meant something. Now college has become another four years of high school.

hardscrabble farmer

MIT currently offers their entire curriculum online for FREE, you just can’t have a degree when you’re done. Any person who wants to educate themselves can do it on their own time, in any discipline and at no cost. What people are doing with college today is purchasing a credential at considerable cost in time and money, not an education. I have earned a 1% income most of my adult life, in several fields without the benefit of a college education allowing me to go Galt while my children were still young and I could free myself to do the important work of raising them with my wife instead of fobbing it off on someone who sees it as a “job”. I urge anyone with any degree of intelligence coupled with drive to pursue the same course.

Go to college and get a job is only one step up from join the army and see the world.

Yes, most people who have any desire not to live in semi-poverty or a life of crime with any level of intelligence would likely choose “get a job” and thus- often enough- take the college path. These days it is becoming apparent that that doesn’t mean bupkus because-

A) Their government has zero loyalty to the citizenry and will gladly import foreigners for a fraction of the cost to take whatever jobs are still being offered and are, in fact, ramping this process up to previously unforeseen levels. Do not expect this to change for the better.

B) College is a diploma mill, not a place of higher education. Functional retards can get into college these days if they are willing to incur the debt because “every American deserves a college education” regardless of potential or intellectual capacity because of the cult of equality. If they can get a diploma, what does that say about the value of yours?

C) Corporations can replace people like widgets, you are not a special snowflake. Expect even less loyalty in the coming years.

Getting a “job” in 2015 is equivalent to working in the coal mines of Appalachia circa 1933, with more diversity seminars. And snack machines.

Self motivated people with intelligence and a personality are so rare these days that you have to not want to do well to take any path other than self employment. There are over 300 million people out there, you need only a fraction of a fraction to earn your way into the 1%.

Or as my greatest mentor used to say- “do it your way, makes no difference to me.”

*end of sermon*

Stucky

Late to the party here … was working on my “Caesar / taxes” article. Just a few brief comments;

1) Always interesting that college posts always generate so much discussion.

2) Regarding the article … obviously the Finns have figured out a way how to produce smart kids without them doing HOMEWORK. That simply NEVER worked for me. And since we’re talking about college … ESPECIALLY in college. Math is simply not my natural inclination … so I pick a major (computer science) which emphasizes math … brilliant! But, I slogged through to completion. How? Working my fucking ass off when not in the classroom … hours and hours of study.

3) This is in a nutshell how I picked my major. I got a newspaper … went to the classified section to see what employers were looking for …. saw that my first preference (English Lit) didn’t have a single fuckin’ “help wanted” ….. but, saw shitloads of computer jobs …. and that was that. That’s not hard, and I wonder why kids don’t do the same today.

Bostonbob

HSF says,

“Getting a “job” in 2015 is equivalent to working in the coal mines of Appalachia circa 1933, with more diversity seminars. And snack machines.”

So true, so true.

Bob.

hardscrabble farmer

I think Matewan should be required viewing for anyone seeking to follow the college path to a job.

BTW, just finished my breakfast, 2″ thick grass fed ribeye, fried eggs with yolks the color of tangerines, pot of fresh coffee, big old glass of ice cold well water. The birds are singing, the grass is greening and life is wonderful.

No boss.

No cubicle.

No degree.

I think I’ll go build something.

Rise Up
Rise Up

Stucky, I stumbled my way into the Information Technology field by way of the U.S. Forest Service. You see, my first degree (Associates in Recreation & Parks Management from community college) led me to Oregon where I worked as a Forestry Technician surveying a 1.5 Million acre National Forest [and yes, Forester, I used a compass and topo map–this was before GPS and smart phones]. Anyway, the Forest Service was under a mandate to produce a 10-year master plan for development of the resources and they used computers to model various scenarios. Since I was a good typist, when my summer seasonal position ended, they hired me full-time in the word processing department (IBM System 6 with 8″ floppies).

30 years later I have my Bachelor’s in Computer Information Systems and have been steadily employed since.

Stephanie Shepard

HSF- I think the best advice was “Don’t wait until your 40 to find out life is a do-it-yourself job. The job market is an absolute joke. The last time I lost a job I couldn’t even get a call back for a server job. But damn if I can’t get a CEO or business owner to give me good freelance work with little oversight and much better pay. Its insane to think on paper I am not qualified by HR standards for simplistic jobs but I can find work with start ups who are eager to hire.

Pirate Jo
Pirate Jo

Don’t have kids.

TE
TE

College shouldn’t be an all or nothing thing. Education is not, so why should “higher education” be that way?

I went to college, while working and raising a child, took NO bullshit, liberal, elective courses – against my “counselor’s” (salesman’s) advice – and gained SKILLS.

Skills that put me in the position of running an accounting office before I graduated with my degree. By 22 I was divorced, co-parenting (way ahead of the norm, the court wouldn’t even register our agreement, one that is common now), working full time in a plastic injection factory (for you Stuck) and had three clerks, an outside consultant and 100 accounting clients under my domain.

You can be educated for nearly free, start as a copy-girl and become the Office Manager/Junior Accountant, and CLEP out of your credits to get your degree, if necessary. Still have to pay though.

Or not. I often wonder, when the banks won’t let us have our savings, and the stock market is essentially dead, and the tax man is at the door, I wonder if your college degree is going to back a lick of difference in your life?

Thanks for the discussion Forester and Stephanie, thought provoking and thoroughly enjoyable!

Aquapura
Aquapura

I’d be leery of the common refrain that college pays off if you get a STEM major. We are being flooded by H1B’s with engineering degrees from India, etc. that will work for peanuts compared to a debt burdened American graduate. If they aren’t directly in our country the job here is being outsourced to India. Personally know more than a couple engineers that had to train their foreigner replacements to get a paltry severance. The company went from a $100k salary to $30k overnight – easy math for them. Engineering, computer science, etc. are all being decimated by this sort of thing. Companies like IBM couldn’t care less, only focused on the stock price.

Meanwhile colleges are full to the gills of students. I went to a relatively small state school. Less than 20 years ago when I graduated they had a total enrollment of about 10,000 students. Today it’s 15k. 50% growth in less than a generation?! The business to be in is building dorms. Brick layer anyone?

Rise Up
Rise Up

Aquapura says: “The business to be in is building dorms. Brick layer anyone?”

And building prisons.

ottomatik
ottomatik

The article does a masterful job of highlighting the current Degree= Career fallacy. That college or education for that matter, has been reduced to Degree=Career is regrettable. The predatory increases in tuition, coinciding with the Federal realignment of Student Loans, is despicable. Segments of our society are feasting on our young and vulnerable, with both the message and the architecture.

That said, there is a higher value to education than that of income. Real education in alignment with ones values can demonstrably provide a higher quality of life. I certain do not regret mine, even with its high cost and little commercial value.

ss
ss

“… you have to not want to do well to take any path other than self employment. There are over 300 million people out there, you need only a fraction of a fraction to earn your way into the 1%”

– Hardscrabble Farmer.

H.F. I have often enjoyed your comments. Am trying exactly this with the abilities I have after having worked for many small businesses in the past most of which are long gone. However, I can attest that this for me has been a extremely rough road. But I’m going to test your “fraction of a fraction” suggestion even if only on a tiny scale.

Admin, I kindly ask for your permission to state this JUST THIS ONCE. However, I won’t fault you for deleting this either.

I’ve designed a low-cost multi-use structure which I can also be considered a “cabin on the Go” which is light, strong, and portable, and can be used year round if insulated. It can accept wiring and plumbing if desired and can be modified, enlarged, or finished in many ways. Am selling plans for this and have built a prototype last year that met all my expectations for structural integrity.

If any read this and care to inquire, I will be happy to send free info. Contact [email protected].

Rise Up
Rise Up

@ss “I’ve designed a low-cost multi-use structure which I can also be considered a “cabin on the Go” which is light, strong, and portable, and can be used year round if insulated. It can accept wiring and plumbing if desired and can be modified, enlarged, or finished in many ways. Am selling plans for this and have built a prototype last year that met all my expectations for structural integrity.”

Sounds cool…but will it meet building codes? I realize building codes vary widely (where applicable), but that could be a factor for those interested.

DC Sunsets

I reiterate for those still reading:
#1 son, a well-employed systems analyst and programmer for a major corp, said his classes in college had little to do with what he does for a living. He had a full, academic, non-need-based scholarship.
#2 son, a well-employed mechanical engineer, taught himself for the most part in undergrad, and landed a coveted co-op spot where graduated with probably $20k in savings. He had better grades/quals than #1, but only got ~3/5th paid for.
#3 son, a well-employed systems analyst and programmer for (same) major corp (as #1) started programming classes at 15, graduated HS with 19 credit hours, and finished his BS in comp sci in 5 semesters (age 20, working for a major corporation.) No scholarships at all, good student, but not an Olympian at it like his siblings.

College was their JOB while they were there.

llpoh
llpoh

Steph, the aspiring author, has much trouble with words:

Socialize: “to talk to and do things with other people in a friendly way
: to teach (someone) to behave in a way that is acceptable in society”

Compare that to socially interact. Interaction is about give and take and response. Socialize is about friendly and acceptable behavior.

Students benefit from interaction.

DC Sunsets

Llpoh, when I visited the state U my sons all attended, it looked like the main interaction being pursued was intoxication and intercourse.

Most of those proto-adults were on an all expenses paid, 5 year extension of adolescence, sans chaperones. The a-holes running the bordello (the administrators) told my wife and me at parent orientation that, yes-I quote-“when your son or daughter becomes sexually active…and they WILL become sexually active…” [emphasis in original].

My kids knew their college years were in deadly earnest. They knew that finishing in the top 5-10% of their peers was extremely important, and that the school would do its damnedest to keep them on campus paying out the nose for as long as they’d tolerate it (or I wouldn’t cut them off, I suppose, not that they were dumb enough that I’d have had to do so.)

We live in a time where vast numbers of adults earn their living by providing all the free rope a person can demand, so as to HANG HIMSELF with it. Encouraging marginal people to got to college, encouraging the changing of majors & “finding ones self,” or a hundred other ways to keep you sitting there, paying them. Encouraging people to indenture themselves for college, cars, big houses, and a host of useless shit they can’t find places to store (so they’ll rent you a self-storage garage), never have there been more ways for people to be the hammer that drives their own bodies like tent pegs into the ground.

Never have so many people been so B-F-ing stupid that they are endlessly, serially conned into self-destruction over such TRIVIAL crap or things for which they are so ill suited.

Never have so many parents committed parental malpractice in setting up their kids for being chumps. I hope all those parents pawned the family house for their kids’ private college “full experience,” so when the kid defaults the parents rightly suffer.

SSS

“Looking back I would have been better off ending my formal education after the 8th grade and pursuing self-education.”
—-Stephanie

One other person I can name had the equivalent of an 8th grade education. The rest of his learning was self taught and OJT, such as surveying and soldiering. Fellow by the name of George Washington.

Keep that factoid in mind next time you get into a discussion with friends and associates about higher education. The best minds in America such as William and Mary’s Thomas Jefferson, Harvard’s John Adams, and the College of New Jersey’s (now Princeton) James Madison deferred to this man for his wisdom and leadership.

TPC
TPC

29 year old millennial reporting in here.

I graduated high school, and completed a system administrator “technical” program at the same time. I turned away from that potential job, and marched into college per my parents’ urging.

Like Stephanie, I dearly regret it. Had my degree not lead to me finding my wife, I would 100% regret it, but at least I got something out of the deal.

Saddled with a boatload of debt for a degree thats no better or worse than one that would have been issued in 1990. Fewer jobs out there, and the ones that are around compete with people overseas, so the wages are deflated.

The biggest batch of stupidity I’ve ever seen was the “everyone is a winner” attitude of the 90s, its what truly fucked up my generation.

There are winners, and there are losers. Thats part of life. By trying to make everyone a winner, they drastically tanked the value of education, the dollar, and my labor.

DC Sunsets

SSS, Washington was a well-known dilettante and real estate speculator and his insistence on running the RW like an aristocrat nearly derailed the project. If not for the French using the Revolution as a backdoor means of kicking their long-standing rivals in Britain, the war would have failed immediately.

Franklin is a far better example of a man who accomplished much at an early age. If I recall correctly, he was editor of an actual, full-scale newspaper by the time he was 13 or 14. That he was also one of con artists at the Philadelphia Convention who overthrew the very form of government for which the Revolution was fought is a sad statement about self-interest and honesty among highly able people.

DC Sunsets

The Philadelphia Convention, convened to simply tweak the Articles of Confederation but instead completely overthrew them in favor of a far more powerful central government (a path that lead us to now, where we have a completely unaccountable Executive Branch exercising all the powers of King George,) is proof positive of Orwell’s fictional “Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism” and its point that there has always been and will always be a High, a Middle and a Low.

ottomatik
ottomatik

dc- The Constitution the Convention produced was more centralized than the original Articles, but that group and their convention cannot be blamed for the inversion of the Fed-State-Individual relationship that continues to invert/devolve. Not one of them would have approved of King Obama.
The Civil War and the actors had far more to do with our current centralization woes. Maybe International Banking Families find us far easier to milk with a few hard working farmers to manage us.
At any rate, whatever document they did whip up is all but history as we barrel headlong into technoenslavement with a King behind the Throne.

danni Golan

yes this is important Blog, Thanks, my daughter just Finished High school and i told her to read this blog

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