1. Who the fuck wrote this article?

    Fuck you buddy.

    Do you know how many Gen X Men I personally know, who were 100% COMPLETELY WIPED OUT by divorce? How much you gonna save when paying alimony + child support?

    Do you know how many Gen X Men I personally know, who used to be small business owners, and were completely 100% COMPLETELY WIPED OUT during the 2008 – 2009 crisis, never to recover?

    I burned 70k of working capital and my personal 50k cash savings trying to keep my business afloat after the crushing we received early 2009. Business NEVER recovered. We went from a 25 person shop to a one person shop today.

    I would also have zero cash savings if it were not for my PM’s. So tell me again how stupid and short-sighted I am.

    1. Sightseer

      Fuck you too. I don’t give a fuck about your personal situation. If you are too fucking stupid to understand math, medians and averages I can understand why you have fucked up your life.

      Thanks for providing an example of clueless asshole Americans.

      Let’s have a pity party for poor Sightseer who screwed up his business and blames everyone else for his failure.

  2. Kind of a depressing article for me because I know I have SQUANDERED a lot of money … SHITLOADS … in my life. I bet I’ve blown $30k or more just on coffee and smokes. Can I live life over? No? Ok, well fuckit then.

    1. Looks like this will be an article that brings out the trolls who refuse to accept personal responsibility for fucking up their own lives. It’s always someone else’s fault. The bankers forced them into debt. They just had to buy that 4,000 sq ft McMansion with 3% down. How could they possibly drive a 10 year old Honda Civic to work.

      Blah, blah, blah.

      I’m sick and tired of this country of losers blaming others for their bad decisions.

  3. Yea, this is the paragraph that set me off about Gen X:

    “It seems 31% of all Generation X adults between the ages of 35 to 54, in the prime earning years of their lives, have ZERO savings, the highest among all age cohorts. Over 20% of them don’t even have a savings account. This is incomprehensible and reveals an almost juvenile approach to life. Approximately 70% of all 35 to 54 year old households have $1,000 or less in savings. These are people who should have been working for the last 10 to 30 years. To not have put aside more than $1,000 is beyond irresponsible, and the justification of earning no interest on savings is disingenuous as they could have earned 5% up until 2008. This shocking state of affairs can’t only be laid at the feet of the evil bankers and rich corporate titans.”

    We are getting divorced raped
    We are getting our businesses crushed
    We have the highest rate of suicide of any age group
    We are getting crushed the worse of all age groups by Obamacare
    We can’t get jobs due to age discrimination
    It’s almost as if Gen X White Males have been specifically targeted for destruction, but the author calls us juvenile.

    1. Sightseer

      I’m a 52 year old white male. Fuck the WE. I’m not you. Those are your personal circumstances and are not representative of an entire Generation. So fuck you asshole. If you don’t like the articles on this site, go to a Gen X pity party site and wallow in your pity.

      You won’t get any here.

  4. Wow the fucking Stockholm syndrome on this site is un-believable, I have been reading the site for a while and would not have expected to see it here.

  5. So, bury your head in the sand, ignore TONS of statistics saying people are getting CRUSHED by the economy, and blame the victim.

    Got it.

    You have a really lousy place here.

    1. Sightseer

      You reek of bitterness as I’m sure none of your woes are in any way your fault. Provide the TONS of statistics asshole. I’ve provided mine.

      What a surprise. Sightseer is playing the victim card as if life’s hard knocks don’t affect everyone. Like you’re the only person who has faced adversity.

      I have a place where reality is embraced. If you think it’s lousy, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

  6. I would also be deeply distrustful of that data about the millenials- how much of that money they claim to have in an account are student-loan proceeds that are yet to be spent?

  7. I await the arrival of Llpoh to vanquish the delusional trolls who will be outraged by the thought of spending less than you make.

  8. Not just the Gen X’ers……. I’m in my retirement years, and I know so many of my age group that have no savings either. NONE!! They blew it all on vacations, fancy cars, you name it. If it weren’t for SS they would have nothing.

    When I ask them how could this have happened, their completely clueless. They thought that they were going to win the lottery, make it big in the stock market… yada yada. When you ask them about “personal responsibility” they laugh at you, in your face. They chide you because you don’t have all the vacations and shiny new toys like they did.

    Fair enough…. We’ll see who fairs best when the government well eventually runs dry.

  9. Not saying this is a reason some folks don’t have savings accounts but it is. As of this morning per Bankrate.com interest rates on savings accounts:

    Rate APY Rate APY
    Total Bank Average 0.04 0.04 0.02 0.02
    Total Thrift Average 0.12 0.12 0.15 0.15
    National Average 0.09 0.09 0.08 0.08

    Really what is the point for some people to have a savings account, people that don’t trust the banks to hold their money and don’t want to play in the rigged stock market. I know a lot of people that just hoard cash, coin and PM in their gun safes. Still savings for sure but not conventional. I have heard young folks say things like ” the interest rates are basically zero so why bother”, so it has become a mindset oftheirs not to save that continues as long as banks keep rates at zero.

    1. Peaceout

      They didn’t have savings in 2008 when you could get 5% interest. They were borrowing money from their over-inflated houses as fast as they could and spending it on vacations, cars, gadgets, and home improvements.

  10. ” ….. ignore TONS of statistics saying people are getting CRUSHED by the economy, and blame the victim.” ————- Sightseer

    I am going to try to be reasonable with you.


    How about the tremendous articles Admin writes which crush the BLS? What about his detailed analysis of all the companies in this country which are Dead Men Walking? C’mon man …. do you REALLY believe that Admin doesn’t realize “people are getting CRUSHED by the economy”?? Of course, he does!! And, I believe you KNOW this to be true.

    You interjected YOUR personal situation into the mix. Nothing wrong with that …. I have been know to do that quite a bit. But, you are clearly upset because Admin isn’t responding with the “warm & fuzzies”. Rather, — and you should know this also — he is big, VERY BIG, on personal responsibility. He is not one to suffer excuses … despite the horrible economy.

    Look, I met the guy in NYC a couple weeks ago. He is a MEAN motherfucker. VERY MEAN. Downright nasty and mean. We passed a homeless guy sleeping on the street. I put a buck in the guy’s tin can. Admin kicked the guy in the nuts! Twice! Yelled at the guy to “get a fucking job!!”. On the other hand, he (and HZK) bought me ALL my beers, and food!! You see, he’s a very complex guy. Very passionate. And deep deep down in his vile blackened heart, he’s one helluva guy. Seriously.

    So, before you get all butt-hurt and leave, maybe you should re-evaluate YOUR reactions …. and tell Admin you just busted a nut temporarily, and that it has passed. He is quick to forgive and forget. Really.

  11. Admin , One reason I always enjoy your financial articles is I always feel richer and smarter .I always think at least I’m not as dumb as some people. I do have areal savings account buried under my mom’s house. I am fortunate enough to have 5000 in cash in my truck at all times for repairs or fuel.I have made some terrible choices when it comes to women but through it all I have managed to keep a job and save money.Yes ,I needed this .Thanks.

  12. Yes, we are responsible for our actions and yes, I have made plenty of mistakes, but Gen-Xers have been well and truly fucked by the system–many of us just starting out in careers when the dot com bubble burst…then we were just getting back on our feet for the 2007-2009 economic clusterfuck.

    I spent my late twenties and early thirties unemployed, underemployed and pretty fucking miserable…looking back there are plenty of things I would have done much differently…but I was still operating under a false paradigm (work, save, grow a nestegg, retire in comfort) that worked so well for my parents.

    And now? Work for a great small company and monthly expenses are covered…but we are not really saving–at least not aggressively. And yes, we do have cars with long financing terms(but very low interest rates). I hate the idea, but in this system it makes sense. We probably could (barely) pay them both off now, but to what advantage? The loan is essentially free. It is a ridiculous system, as we all know, but it is the only one we got right now.

    Sure, we have over 10k in savings, but no retirement accounts. What would be the point? In what way could we invest some digital fiat and reasonably expect it to not only still exist, but actually to have grown in 25 years?

    No, I fully believe, now is a time to sit on the sidelines financially. Saving is absolutely the right thing to do, if one is saving sound money…but saving a clearly dying fiat? Please.

    So, we hang on. We are comfortable…sure, we have the car loans, the cell phones, the cable package…

    I guess the real point is no one knows how this thing is going to break. no one. Car loans won’t really matter if no one can buy gas. Savings accounts with huge balances won’t matter if/when bailins begin. Your 401K balance won’t matter much if/when there are riots on the streets of every city in America.

    We are at a perilous and completely unprecedented point in history. Old rule and old wisdom (at least in a financial sense) have little bearing during the first Fourth Turning of the nuclear/technological age.

    I hope, there will be a period of new growth, optimism, peace and prosperity after this period of extreme crisis (in other words a new High). If so, again hopefully we can get back to sound money and true financial wisdom.

    For right now, I view saving (at least in traditional ways) to be like painting your house during a hurricane. Normally a wise, forward-looking thing to do, but under current circumstances a little silly.

  13. It is not that expensive to own and use a modern smartphone. I bought my LG G2 off swappa for $100. It is a great phone with a snapdragon 800, large 1080p screen, 16GB of storage, and 2GB RAM. I use the Ringplus VIP Pepper plan with 1000 SMS addon which gives 250 minutes, 1500 texts, and 280MB of 4G data. How much does it cost? $4 a month. Four dollars. For basically limitless texting (unless you’re under 18, in which case 1500 texts is not quite enough, but they do have a 5000 SMS addon for $8 too lol)

  14. Kind of like people on “diets.”

    If you don’t don’t fewer calories than you burn, your diet will never work.

    The math is relentless.

  15. Admin – I get that the savings and lack of personal responsibility across all age groups is abysmal and unconscionable and quite frankly shocking to people like us that have sacrificed real time gratification for long term stability. I was just relating experience of what I’ve heard recently as excuses not to, or alternatives to conventional savings.

    In this day and age, with all the vehicles at our disposal, to not set money aside for the long haul is criminal IMHO. With exception to the most dire of situations it seems you should be able to set aside something no matter how modest. I know a comment like this will spark a lot of contradiction from people that are in hard situations but so be it.

    One thing we taught our kids from an early age was the power of saving and compounding and how saving as much as you could early in life will provide huge benefits in the future. Take advantage to the fullest of your 401k plans at work, open up an IRA account and fund it to the max every year, take advantage of tax free earnings over a life time, etc. They were smart enough to see the benefits over the long haul and have been doing what they can in spite of only working in low paying entry level jobs. They have learned to budget their lives with what is left and don’t seem overly miserable about not having cash for near term gratification items such as going to the latest over priced trendy bar/restaurant, latest block buster or rock concert.

    Life lessons are hard, always have been and it pisses me off to no end that money that is being taken away from my earnings is going towards the folks that were not smart enough or responsible enough to take care of their own shit when they had the chance to. The people that had no choice because of whatever situation, no problem, that becomes a societal responsibility. But the folks that lived large and tried to impress the neighbors and flaunted all their shit in front of the folks that spent a life time towing the line and taking care of their business, I would say to them suck it. No soup for you!

  16. I am a young gen-xer. I’ve had my own business for about 7 years. It has ups and downs. Still better than being a cog in big corporation. I have considerable savings, most of which are attributable to the first several years of my career when I earned X dollars and spent between 1/3 and 1/2 of X for all my expenses. I wasn’t living like a king, but I had a new car and a decent apartment. And I built up savings that continue now.

    The single biggest issue I’ve had saving is the lack of any meaningful return on fixed income options. I’ve been earning .4% at best since 2008, and often 0%. You can put money away but its value is eaten up by inflation. Yes, I know about PMs. This is a terrible time in which to invest. Saving is worthwhile, but you’re stuck in 1st gear without investment return. Still, my emergency fund would let me buy a new car in cash, not that I would want to do so.

  17. (1) with ZIRP there’s no point in having a savings account; ANY inflation means you lose money over time

    (2) with “bail-in legislation” the law in U.S., Europe, most places, anything you save in a bank account can be taken in a heartbeat to bail out the bankers when they make bad decisions.

    (3) anyone who ADMITS to having savings in any form is painting a big target on their own back, that the NSA can see from across the planet. Anyone who asks knows that I am dead broke, because I tell them so.

    There is NO BENEFIT to you to answer any question on any topic posed by anyone; if they agree with you, you gain nothing. If they DISAGREE with you, YOUR NAME goes on a list of “hoarders”, “homeland extremists”, “domestic terrorists” or whatever, and you become a candidate for “audit”, “internment”, “detention”, or “collateral damage”. If you understand this, why do you answer anyone, ever, on any subject? If you (and megafellowtravelers) lie to the pollsters / research studies / data collectors, why would believe / trust any figure published, especially figures published by the government?

    I don’t know if everyone is telling the truth or lying; I only know what I do / have / own, and I’M NOT TELLING!

  18. “Japan’s economy is stuck in a prolonged stagnation because consumers’ disposable income is too low and business saving is too high.” ———– http://livingeconomics.org/article.asp?docId=3

    I know the above article is not talking about PERSONAL savings. Nevertheless, one can’t win for losing. Not saving enough? Bad!! Saving too much? Bad!!

  19. jamesthewanderer says: “…I don’t know if everyone is telling the truth or lying; I only know what I do / have / own, and I’M NOT TELLING!”
    Word of mouth is not necessary for the IRS/NSA/CIA/Big Gov to know EVERYTHING about you. They know from your tax returns, any credit card transaction, bank accounts, etc., not to mention your phone, text, and e-mail conversations.

    So it doesn’t matter what you tell anyone. We all have targets on our backs.

  20. EASY to fix ? Try kicking the immigrants OUT. TRY voting for TRUMP.
    TRY working outside the USA. TRY to keep out of the US military it is NOT a job.
    TRY working OFF the books.
    TRY being a PHONY illegal immigrant for the BIG BENEFITS.
    TRY going to GERMANY for collage tuition is free to all. the jobs are there as are the new immigrants “the immigrants KNOW the best spots vote with your FEET!

  21. Millennial who was raised to believe in personal responsibility checking in.

    I only have 18k in our savings account, it was up to 30 but we pulled a bunch for home improvements and used a chunk of it to pay off a student loan.

    Our goal is to keep 20-30k in savings “in case of emergency” while using extra to pay off student loans early, and fix up our rather modest house.

  22. A couple of weeks ago my Son who is 24 was at house party and had to endure a young lady complaining about having $69,000 student loan with no job. I asked him what she studied.


    Early childhood development. I’m sure this snowflake was sitting there sipping Coronas her Daddy bought while typing away on 600 dollar Iphone.

    And I am supposed to feel sorry for her.

    This is the rule for me.

    If you are broke you can’t afford an Iphone.

    If you have one don’t complain that you have no money for food.

  23. I have observed several “typical” households in our neighborhood which seems to be somewhat representative of the country. The 20 somethings all live at home or are being supported in some way by their hard working parents with very few exceptions. The best family unit gig is the 2 income no kids (DINKS). the ones across the street are both nurses for past 25 years, they get excellent retirement and throw off so much cash they just got back from Italy for a month, besides having their house paid off. Meanwhile, back in the real world, any couple with kids has education to pay for ( in our neighborhood the public schools are a disaster) so kids go to parochial or private. In sum, I would agree divorce throws a damper on the party, but the key is to stay married and apparently have no kids. Out.

  24. Measuring this by “accounts” is useless. Not only do a significant portion of the population not have jobs or earn enough to save at all, but “savings accounts” earn next-to-nothing anyway…perhaps many people’s “savings account” is in the stock market, their house or a “checking account”.

    This fixation with useless “account” measurement smacks of the equally-useless “employment” data, which remains stuck in the 1970s, measuring only “big companies”, “insured” jobs and failing to say anything at all about the quality of those jobs…

    1. Keditanstalt

      Do you read for comprehension? There are 147 million people employed. Your drivel is what is useless. The lack of savings is confirmed by the lack of retirement savings and home equity that reached record lows a few years ago. The data is unequivocal and is not coming from the government.

      Ignoring the facts doesn’t make them not true.

      Bury your head back in the sand.

  25. The problem stems from government corruption and the crony capitalism that ensues. Businesses bribe our lawmakers. Lawmakers make it so workers can’t fight for descent wages. Businesses have more money to bribe lawmakers. Every politician that accepts corporate PAC or lobby money should be shuffled off to jail. But they won’t because our judicial system is just as corrupt. Do you know how a lawyer becomes a judge? That’s right he bribes the party in power. So before he even hits the bench his hands are dirty. It’s a never ending cycle of corruption.

    1. Flem

      So you have no say in the life choices you make? The government and businesses are living your life for you? They make you spend more than you bring home? You have no personal responsibility?

      It seems my thesis is being confirmed.

  26. Well, I’m Gen-xer and I saved enough cash to easily buy a couple top of the line Beemer or Mercedes on an average-Joe salary. How?

    1. I drive a bullet-proof 2001 Toyota with roll up windows which was a HUGE upgrade over my prior POS Hyundia which looked like hell.

    2. I took that savings and eliminated all my debt except for my house. I hope to have the house paid off in another 5 years.

    3. I cancelled cable TV a decade ago along with all the other unnecessary monthly bills.

    4. I didn’t get married. Look: If I’m rocking $500k-800k net worth but my girl has 50k of debt in student loans and credit cards, guess what? DON’T MARRY THEM.

    5. Don’t reproduce. Everyone I know is miserable in their life of slavery to their spoiled brats kids.

    I pass beemers and benzes every day and think: Sucker….And you know what? I’M RIGHT.

    Don’t look to tax people like me down the road for your stupid decisions.

    That’s the point of the article folks. Quit trying to impress everyone with your fake wealth and generate some real wealth.

    Good luck!


    Captain Obvious wins comment of the day. At least someone gets it.

    I can’t wait to see the Zero Hedgers go ballistic and blame everyone but themselves for their problems.

  28. “Warning: If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don’t you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can’t think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you’re supposed to read? Do you think every thing you’re supposed to think? Buy what you’re told to want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you’re alive. If you don’t claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned.”

    Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club

  29. Tough one, most here seem to agree that if a generation is wiped out by macro forces it was inevitable but when any isolated incidence pops up, its dismissed as a personal failing. Too bad that these days mistakes are built to last, very few can just get up and go again. At the same time, you don’t know till you try, but most who fail these days will find the ladders’ been pulled up. One by one the winner/loser account is becoming unbalanced and the rage of the remaining just goes unheard. I guess it can only be determined from a personal view or risk judging others based on partial facts.

    I’ve got my story too, but at the end of the day – its my fate. I’m not ready now due to a serious risk miscalculation – but at the same time the business I’m in is less than healthy despite diversity and no debt. In the end, I’m not where I should be for retirement – and it is on my mind constantly. I’ve learned to try while fighting feelings of failure and regret and can assure you, its a journey in and of itself. I wonder what others will do when they have a week to compress the same emotions into.

  30. “… the lack of retirement savings…”??

    As Peaceout wrote earlier, “Really what is the point for some people to have a savings account…”…going on to point out that gold, guns, cash etc. is quite likely too. Which is why this fixation on “bank accounts” very likely misses most of the population.

    My “savings account” is a paid-off house and long-held physical gold, together with bargain-basement mining stocks. I keep as little as possible in a “bank account”, for purposes of both safety and privacy.

    Not many will do THAT I admit…but many people consider their (mortgaged) house, LOC, 401K, money market stuff, business, even their car or boat as their “savings”.

    I agree with you that such people are heading for disaster but there you go..

  31. I used debt as a tool: Get a short-term loan in order to buy something on which I could make a profit. This was separate from my 8-5 job.

    “Find a need and fill it”: After I dropped out of the 8-5 world, I bought a backhoe and dumptruck (good used) and became the only-available sand/gravel fella in the small community. Saved as much of my profits as I could. Bought cheap land in small tracts.

    Built my own house my self. Wound up at $42/sq-ft for 1,400 sq-ft on 15 acres, including a separate garage and a very good water-well system. Sold it three years ago for 120/sq-ft.

    Now in a no-debt structure but for running expenses and low ad valorem taxes. Comfy and happy. Pretty much prepped for “no matter what”.

  32. Captain Obvious wins? Don’t get married…..don’t have kids as a core thesis to…..success? Fuck that. Live below your means, +1, otherwise maybe for some but jeez, reads like a formula for a lonely guy later.

  33. Tommy:

    Getting married is just giving creditors two people to go after in the event of a problem. I keep my relationships between myself and my girl. I don’t see any need to get the state involved.

    If it was customary for guys to marry other guys into “friendships” and either one of them can snatch each others cash and run for no reason, would you do that too?

    It’s like starting a business together. If I come to the table with 500k and you come to the table with $50k of debt is that a good idea for me? Hell no.

    If you want kids, great! But people need to realize the “fun” is over and it’s a lot of work. Don’t have the kids and then complain about your boring life and lack of cash.

  34. Boomer Doomer – The Other Side Of High Rents

    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/20/2015 14:45 -0400

    Baby boomers now in their 50s have lower incomes, wealth, homeownership rates and more debt than generations before them, according to a report from the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies and the AARP Foundation. A third of Americans 50 and older spend more than 30% of their income on housing, while 37% of those 80 and older spend more than 30% on housing.

    * * *

    Rising rents have been cited as a reason millennials aren’t moving out of their parents’ basements. But, as MarketWatch’s Amy Hoak details, higher rents could force some boomers to move in with their children.

    So says Don Lawby, president of the Real Property Management franchise, a property management company based in Utah. He says it is shaping up to be a crisis for some boomers for the following reasons:

    The average rent for a three-bedroom single-family home in the U.S. was $1,363 in the third quarter of 2015, a 5.7% increase over the last year, according to Real Property Management and Rent Range, a rental information company.
    Workers 55 and over have, on average, saved only $150,300 for retirement, according to a Fidelity report from 2013. Assuming they withdraw 4% of their savings for income in retirement, their savings will generate about $500 a month, Lawby figured. With Social Security benefits, monthly income will average $1,791 (using figures from the Social Security website).
    That monthly income means the average retiree is likely to have a housing budget of $609 to $681 a month (going by the recommendation that 34% to 38% of income be used toward housing costs), way below the cost of renting a three-bedroom home.

    Rental growth rates are the highest they’ve been since the recession, said Ryan Severino, senior economist and director of research for Reis, Inc., a provider of commercial real estate information. Reis data shows that rents rose more than 4% over the last 12 months.

    “Vacancies have been tight for a very long period of time,” Severino said. “That kind of environment gives landlords leverage to raise rents.” Rents are eventually expected to taper off, however, as more apartment inventory hits the market, he added.

    Yet some don’t see that tapering off happening soon. A recent Rent.com survey of more than 500 property managers predicted rents would rise an average of 8% over the next year. Eighty-eight percent of property managers surveyed said they raised their rent in the last 12 months. The report also found that rental vacancies were at a 20-year low.

    Steep rises in rent make it very difficult for tenants to keep up, “unless you’re in the job market and in a position where your salary is moving with the cost of living as it increases,” Lawby said. And he’s not just talking about retirees already living on fixed incomes. If you are a boomer who lost a job during the downturn, it is quite possible that your employment opportunities have been limited and salary increases have stalled, he added.

    “The boomers, they’ve come into an environment that, generally speaking, hasn’t been positive financially for many of them,” Lawby said.

  35. Captain Obvious, fair enough – I think I made it clear ‘whatever’ and still made my case for me. But a reason to not getting married should be anything other than keeping creditors at bay in the event of an unforeseen issue(s)…..that’s just universally odd. Period. Two dudes? Where the fuck did that come from? And lastly, I’m not complaining about my kids. Me no get you. But that’s okay on TBP. See you around.

  36. I guess Im one of the people dragging the millenials stats down. I rent, but have almost no debt. I have saving, and 100% agree that saving money is the keyto happiness later in life, but I have seen what the banks do with other people’s money, and I chose not to save money in the traditional way.

    And for all those flaming this article, looks like admin hit a little too close to home. I look at those thing he goes on about, and think about how much fucking money I have wasted on those very things. It doesn’t seem like a big deal or much of a waste of money to spend 20$ on Jersey mikes subs for me and the wife for lunch, but it really does add up, especially over the years. I’m not near as guilty of the mindless spending and thoughtless consumption as most of my generation, but I have done it too. Especially the alcohol/bar tabs the first 5 years of my 20’s, jesusfuckinchrist that was a lot of money. oh well, rather than get mad or upset about it, Im just glad I learned my lesson and don’t do that shit anymore.

  37. Sightseer said:
    “Do you know how many Gen X Men I personally know, who were 100% COMPLETELY WIPED OUT by divorce?”

    That would be their own fault dipshit. They chose vapid women who had a nice asses, huge tits (which they probably paid to “enhance”) and did unbelievable things to their dicks when the should have been choosing a real life partner. They should have been looking for someone who shared their values, morals and goals and would have made good mothers for their children. But no, they chose the one who could suck a mean dick and then thought, in many cases, if my wife is this good there has got to be someone better so let me play the field a bit.

    Men and women from my generation (GenX) were the biggest whores and sluts I’d ever seen until the Minnies came along. You reap what you sow dumbasses!

    The ones who really suffered through absolutely no fault of the own are your retarded, directionless, “everyone gets a trophy” children.

    So you and your wives ruined each others lives, ruined your children’s lives and suffered the loss of a business that was built on the unsustainable practice of cashing the equity out of your houses for ever and ever……………and who’s fault is that again?

    1. This comment thread is shaping up to be a doozy. I predict 150 comments at a minimum. There is much ball kicking to be done.

  38. They chose vapid women who had a nice asses, huge tits (which they probably paid to “enhance”) and did unbelievable things to their dicks when the should have been choosing a real life partner. They should have been looking for someone who shared their values, morals and goals and would have made good mothers for their children.


    Can I have both? This either or stuff is depressing.

  39. Admin – sorry to be late to this party. I have ben doomstead prepping non-stop.

    Hell, even SSS buys into the fallacy. The other day he said as many middleclass folks are doing the right things than are not, then I kicked him in the nuts with the same figures you are using. Have not seen him since.

    Boohoo – I married an earthpig who took all my money. But it was not my fault. She took all my money.

    Boohoo – my earthpig squirted out a bunch of earthpiglets who I gotta feed now, but it was not my fault.

    Boohoo – my business tanked and I poured $150k down the shitter before I realized it had tanked, but it was not my fault.

    Fuck me. Is anything their fault? If they forget to wipe their ass, it is not their fault.

    I mentioned the young man I recently met – early twenties, growing a business, working 100 hour weeks, avoiding debt, not hiring people when he can work more hours himself, delaying marriage, hustling his ass off, and well on the way to retiring at thirty.

    What say these whiny ass losers model themselves after this kid? No-o-o, that is too damn hard. Fuck hard work, thrift, delayed gratification. “Gotta go bang me an eartpig, run me up some debt, have some piglets I cannot afford, and blame someone else when it all turns to shit”.

    What a bunch of pussy losers.

    Real nice article, Admin..

  40. Peaceout said:
    “I know a lot of people that just hoard cash, coin and PM in their gun safes.”

    No offense but that is not smart at all. A gun safe is not a safe. Most offer almost no fire protection and about the same amount of theft protection. Many so called “gun safes” can be broken into with two large screwdrivers or a couple of pry bars. A battery powered sawzall will cut the top off of one in less time than it takes to pry one open.

    A gun safe will keep your kids and their friends out and may stop a smash and grab thief who is in a hurry but that’s about it.

    If you’re going to store valuables at home, which is NOT a good idea, you want a UL listed safe rated not less than TL-15. Better still, find multiple, off-site “storage” locations. Private vault space and the bank of mother Earth are good options.

  41. IS – one of my first purchases before moving into my doomstead was a thousand pound safe. A very small safe, but took 4 guys and special equipment to get it in the door. And that is before it is bolted down.

  42. Admin – yes, I remember. What a bloodbath that was. I won, of course. It just took you a couple years to realize it! Newbies have no idea what it was like around here.

    It is sad that you present facts, as always, and the sheep go apeshit. You did not make that stuff up – they cannot stand the sight of themselves in the mirror, so blame you for their reflection. What dipsticks.

  43. I’m 45 (Gen X) and have minimal savings as I deliberately keep my checking and saving account balances low due to zero to negative returns and excessive risk of bail-ins. By the metric of savings in an account, I have under $1000. However, I have no debt (paid off over $100k of student loans and a large mortgage), have plenty of assets, regularly pre-pay known expenses (inflation hedge + provides short-term reduction in burn rates if no money comes in), regularly invest in my own businesses, and could convert assets to cash if needed in a few days. Yes, we paid too @#$$#@ much for the house and yes the economy has sucked for Gen X’rs like myself with multiple rounds of unemployment, financial repression, zero return investment environments, lack of hiring, downsizing, outsourcing, etc. And Yes – I am bitter and pissed off about how Gen X’s income and future has been stolen. However, we’re marginally OK because we built our asset base, DIY’d, stayed home, and paid off debt when our neighbors (who paid the same overpriced amounts for their homes) constantly bought lots of junk, bought new cars every couple of years, went on lots of expensive vacations, hired expensive contractors instead of DIY, and otherwise lived beyond their means and wasted their resources such that they are one paycheck away from bankruptcy. You can save and prepare for the future even in a true @#$%$@#% environment but it takes some discipline and effort that lazy sheep seem to be incapable of having.

  44. I don’t know why we bother reporting the generation, American producers as a whole are being destroyed by an all consuming upper-class and under-class.

    The upper class being the oligarchs, and the under-class being the socialists.

    The upper buys off the lower while keeping their boot heel in the face of the middle class, and the middle class also is carrying the lower.

    Shit really never does change, does it?

  45. Tommy:

    Hey, thanks man for understanding my odd way of looking at things, and I respect your opinion too.

    IMHO, registering my female relationship with the state (getting married) is no less odd than registering a friendship with the state.

    Imagine that?
    So you get to a certain age…people start talking: Joe and Bill have been friends for 10 years and they still haven’t registered their friendship with the state? Geesh…what is wrong with them? Are they doing okay?

    And if that was what EVERYONE else was doing then you’d probably feel pressure to do it too.

    Most people just do whatever everyone else does without stopping and thinking about it. They dress like each other, compete with fake wealth, go to the latest bars, they mimic each other like monkeys.

    A lot of people out there need to stop and think about their decisions:
    Is a fancy car really going to make me happy when I can barely afford the payment?
    Do I really need the state involved in my personal relationships with women?
    Do I really want to have kids? Can I afford it? Is that really for me?
    What makes me happy the most?

    If a new car makes someone THAT HAPPY, then they should totally buy it. But it seems like most people just waste their money on meaningless garbage trying to look cool, and that is just SAD.

    What is this? Junior High School? Grow a set and be your own man for God’s sake. SEt your own trends, don’t follow mindlessly.

    Rant complete. Thank you.

  46. IS – if you buy one of those cheap-o stack-on brand gun ‘cabinets’ , sure, but a 800pound(empty) liberty brand steel safe is pretty fucking secure, at least against almost anyone likely to break into your house. You for damn sure aren’t cutting the top off with a battery power sawzall. As far as prying it open, sure, if you break in to the house with a couple people to do it with a couple large pry bars or halogen tools, and you have a good bit of time. But I also have an alarm. It CAN be easily cut open with a gas powered circular saw with the right kind of blade( the preferred method for opening one by a professional after a fire) in about 10 minutes, but how many people break into houses with one of those? or the pry bars? Its not perfect, but it WILL keep out your run of the mill home robber looking for a quick score, which is the overwhelming majority of break ins anyway.

  47. None of those safes is all that great when leroy puts a 12 gauge up against your wifes head, and says, open it. Jim, your article is a paradox to me. I agree with it all, and I agree with none of it. Sightseer is making a great point. He’s right. SSS is right, lots and lots of people doing the right thing. They are going to be coming out of the woodwork next election. o

  48. Llpoh, you’re all gaga about some loser who works 100 hours week and gets no pussy? He’s a fag, he won’t retire at 30, he’ll die of aids by then.

  49. Gator said:
    “Its not perfect, but it WILL keep out your run of the mill home robber looking for a quick score, which is the overwhelming majority of break ins anyway.”

    Is that not almost exactly what I said?

    The problem comes when a thief breaks in, spots a safe he can’t get into and then cuts a deal with his pals who will take the time to do the deed.

    If you don’t think that a battery operated sawzall can cut the top off of a liberty safe, you are mistaken. Their top of the line models might be better but but unless they have a new model out, none of their safes are burglary rated. The only burglary (and fire) rated “Gun Safe” is made by AMSEC.

    A very good fire and burglary rated safe large enough to hold ALL of the cash and metal you are likely to ever own only costs a few thousand dollars or less. I’m talking about a safe that a professional safecracker would take hours to break into. You can even buy them used for very reasonable prices. A safe like that will offer 2 hours of fire protection at 1900F outside while maintaining interior temps under 350F. Paper chars at 350F. You’ll have to read the UL rating literature but a burglary rated safe that is insurable to $50,000 will resist tool on steel attack times by two professional safecrackers for a minimum of 15 minutes. A typical gun safe will resist the same attacks for seconds or a few minutes. For very little extra money you can get a TL-30 or TL-60 insurable to $1 million.

    Storing cash, metal and guns in what is commonly called a “gun safe” is like putting $6000 wheels and tires on an $800 beater. If your safe has anything less than a TL-15 burglary and 2 hour fire rating and you’re using it to store items that cost more than the safe costs, I’ll leave to you to decide if that’s intelligent or not. After all, you’re the one who had to work for everything being stored in it.

    A smarter approach is to diversify your storage locations and get a high quality/TL-15+ rated safe if you must store things at home and build it in/hide it very well.

    As an aside, I rent private vault space and a few weeks ago some dumbass crashed a stolen car into the building repeatedly until he finally got in but came away empty handed when he saw the vault. Dumbfuck could have walked in during business hours and had a look at the inside and outside of the vault for free instead of going to jail for a look at the outside of it.

  50. Gator, the innerwebs have plenty of videos and pictures of so called gun safes (not cabinets) that failed. All they need is a small hole to reach in and grab what they want. strfucker is right about Leroy which why multiple off site storage is a must. A well hidden home safe that is difficult for YOU to get into paired with an unlocked “sacrificial” safe in plain site is a decent alternate plan.

  51. As Admin wrote, Nov. 4, 2014, “Are You Voting Today?”

    “It isn’t Republican versus Democrat. It isn’t conservative versus liberal. It’s the people versus the state. We are run by One Party. Voting will change nothing. We are living in a corporate fascist warfare/welfare empire of debt run by billionaires and bankers. The Republican/Democrat kabuki theater is designed to keep the Sheeple distracted and angry at each other. This keeps them from focusing on the oligarchs stealing them blind, luring them into debt, and using their children as cannon fodder in un-Constitutional wars around the globe. Since 2000 we have had Republicans in complete control and Democrats in complete control. No matter who is in charge, the welfare state and warfare state grows ever larger. The national debt has grown exponentially under both parties. Neither party will change the status quo because THEY ARE the status quo. It’s the people versus the state. We are on course for a financial, economic and societal collapse. Voting will not change this course.”

    I’d say this has been accurate even before 2000. And will be until The Great Default.

  52. Llpoh, hide it very well and get a cheap sacrificial safe to hide in plain sight. Put some obsolete, yet important looking papers inside along with some costume jewelry and a couple hundred in cash and rolled coin.

    If they make it past your other security they’ll think they scored.

  53. Pirate Jo meet Captain Obvious- A perfect match with no vows, no state involvement and most important…..don’t have kids. LOL

  54. Admin, super article as usual. I am glad you mentioned Aristotle, the king of reason. You are correct in what you say, that men are, ordained by god or nature as rational beings, having been endowed with the faculty of reason. However, he stipulated that very few will actually exercise it. Most will live life as beasts, focusing solely on cakes and ale, as his teacher Plato quipped. I don’t suppose he is wrong.

  55. wow so many awesome comments ! Also so many piss poor comments .
    If life is getting you down , I have a quote for you …. What is the purpose of falling down? Its to get the fuck back up . not sure who wrote it . Japanese quote fall down 7 times get up fucking 8 times !!! If you arnt saving enough get a 2nd or 3rd job ? or fill a need of others .
    When I was young and did some very stupid things I worked 4 jobs till I met MY obligations .
    I don’t trust the banking system ,so I keep only a few grand in it to pay bills. The rest got lost here and there from various hunting/fishing excursions .
    I do not care about the various .gov agencies that track absolutely everything , im not that important ,except to wife and kids . They will troll easier game than my background would suggest to them.
    Man up ,try to do the right thing , LIVE LIFE best you can and stop blaming others for your decisions or fuck ups ! Own them and move forward . I have 2 handicapped kids and if I pass away ,they will have a place to live and the basics . Sometimes its not about you ,special snowflake that you are, its about someone else . Rant off ! Well for a little while )))

  56. WTF?!? I left prison in 2010 with just the shirt on my back, but now I have more than $10k just in gold and silver in my safe, let alone cash or what is in my bank accounts. If I could do it, then there is no excuse for any able-bodied adult. They must think that da gubmint would rescue them if things were to ever get bad enough. Let’s just say that they are all in for a rude awakening.

  57. Possibly they have it in a checking account – savings accounts don’t make much sense with 0 percent interest. I’m not even sure what constitutes an emergency or savings for an emergency. Let’s assume many of these people have enough in checking to cover a simple expense like root canal or car repair. Shouldn’t larger emergency funds say 3 to 6 months living expenses be in a money market or mutual fund. I don’t doubt that many of not most should save more but a savings account seems like an anachronism.

  58. Oh and what are CDs counted as? I just keep thinking a passbook savings account is what is meant. Plus many people have multiple checking accounts not to mention business accounts. Or IRAs that aren’t in the markets etc. Banks where I have checking have never even suggested a basic savings but my credit union requires a savings account be opened with checking – although you only have to keep 100 dollars in it.

  59. Llpoh- Keep your eyes open around there, the Theodore Roosevelt is sailing out of the ME hot spot to hook up with the American fleet off the coast of your doomstead, Russia and China is not happy and I believe they ( US ships) are headed for Chink territorial waters.

    Looks like Oreo’s posse is going to stick a stick in China’s eye now.

  60. Why don’t you level the playing field a bit by bringing inherited wealth into the statistics? You are making the assumption that everyone has the same circumstances at the starting line. You are very judgmental, and your generalities are not useful. Yes there are vapid, foolish overconsumers, but you can’t differentiate many meaningful conclusions from your data.

  61. Jim, you are the Mighty Quinn. Your approach is correct: it’s true, we are all raised in a deformed state that encourages debt and consumption and does essentially nothing to encourage financial literacy. Nevertheless, individuals are free to note the obvious danger signals and to decide to swim against the tide. Those not yet hopelessly entangled in debt and previous wrong choices will benefit from your message–if they listen. As to the others: it’s never too late to start to save a buck and gradually grind down the debt.


  62. Savings aren’t where it’s going to be at, if trump wins. Protectionism will bring back opportunities that haven’t existed in 20 years. The big box model is about to lose it’s cost advantages. Bu bye, traitors. Start a business producing something. Start now. The tax advantages are going to be astonishing. If you make a million, net, you will get to keep 850. That’s incentive. Do it again, sightseer. Government policy is about to favor americans again. Don’t snooze

    1. “Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives – choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”


  63. “Only the flexible survive.”

    -LTC “Mad Jack” Hamilton

    I have been fortunate enough to have been both at the bottom and the top of the modern American food chain at one point or another during the course of my lifetime. I know what it’s like to be so poor that I didn’t know where my next meal was coming from and to earn so much that I had trouble finding places to put it or things to spend it on. Neither of those extremes were the kinds of places I found comfort in, but they gave me enough experience to be able to accommodate myself to any financial situation. Truth be told the best place- for me- has always been the one with not enough money to get into trouble, but enough to meet the exigencies of day to day life. I have learned that it is far better to wait until you are able to purchase something outright than to buy on credit, that you can always do better for yourself when you invest in yourself rather than others, when you try to do for yourself what you would normally pay others to do. There is no greater insurance policy in life than children well raised, no greater asset than a close family and no better return on any investment than time spent doing your level best for others.

    We have been conditioned to think of life as an economic condition- that you must be able to provide a specific monetary level to account for the days of your life. Life is not about money, it is about the way you move from birth to death; whether to be honest or deceitful, trustworthy or duplicitous, industrious or indolent, ignorant or striving for wisdom. It is possible- particularly in our current era- to avoid the silence where you listen to your inner self and its directions, through mind altering drugs, entertainment, status whoring, prestige seeking, credentialism, conspicuous consumption, etc. Make no mistake, there is an account that will be paid, a debt that must made good on a level that no amount of money can pay off and that is what you think of yourself at the end of your life. For those who live a deliberately introspective life it happens daily, like buying a day pass to a fun park and you ask yourself at the end “Did I get good value for the cost?”

    I understand that we must live in the world, that we are obligated through threat of imprisonment to contribute a portion of our sweat and labor to a system that reviles and denigrates us, but just as we are obligated to endure bad weather, physical pain and injury, loss of loved ones, catastrophe and failure, it is not personal, but rather an integral part of the human condition. What we are not obligated to do is to intentionally invest ourselves in perpetuating that system. Decide what level of discomfort and imposition you are willing to accept and give no more than that. If the cutoff for federal income taxes are x, earn not one dollar more and with every spare hour of your labor and time invest in doing for others and building human capital. Rather than using pharmaceuticals to help you deal with the stresses of the day, assiduously inquire of yourself the root causes and eliminate them from your life.

    We have allowed, for too long now, others to define us by what we say, what we own, where we went to school, what we earn, or drive or where we live. We not only accept these labels, but enslave ourselves to them without benefit. There is nothing that prevents us from from learning to define ourselves. I would rather be known as a good father than a rich man, or a loyal husband than corporate head man. One provides an economic reward the other does not, but in terms of true value almost no one would disagree with which choice would be preferable when you lay upon your death bed.

    What I see here, what I have grokked since the day I discovered Jim’s writing, is that I am not alone. I see the world as it is far more than the average American because I am looking for something of value. The majority of the people who respond here appear to be similarly inclined. They know when they are being lied to and when something is seriously amiss, not just in the arrangement of numbers or the interpretation of statistics, but in the deeper fabric of reality. Economics isn’t just about money, it’s about how we decide to trade our limited time on this Earth for a specific value. Those values-whether a brand new car or happy child- are for us to assign, based on our own expectations and desires and in that we should be free to choose and to pursue. What others think, what society champions from day to day does not have to determine our course, nor should it.

    Like the guys at Zero Hedge so eloquently state, on a long enough timeline the survival rate is zero. Make your timeline worthy of the investment.

  64. @David

    On TBP the last sacred cow was shot butchered and thrown on BBQ about 6 years ago.

    That’s why I love this place.


    Sightseer I called the Whambulance they should be around soon to pick you up for trip to Huff Post.

    Oh yeah and before you start on me, save it. I’ve been poor too! Difference between You and me is that one day I looked in mirror and realized it was up to me to get my shit together. Quit telling us all how tough it is. My Grand-parents raised 11 children in midst of Great Depression.

    A tough day for you as having to cook your Mr. Noodles instead of nuking them.

    I don’t even own a smart phone. Mainly because I could afford one for many years. Now I can but don’t. Yet I go out to grocery store and aisles are full of people who carry phone around in their hands. They can’t even put their fucking phones in their purses or pockets because God Forbid they might miss an update on facebook or twitter or chance for a selfie.

    Newsflash the world doesn’t revolve around you. If the SHTF then it is up to you to find something for supper. I’ll be sitting at my house drinking craft beer. Sad part is if you show up in my yard I will likely to feed you. But that is what you are hoping for isn’t it.

  65. The author of this piece has only 1/2 the picture. Yes, easy debt and a culture of excess have caused people to over-consume.

    “These are the same people who demand the rich (anyone who worked hard, saved, and planned for their future) be taxed more, so they don’t have to live with the consequences of their reckless disregard for common sense and self-discipline.”

    The fact is that the ultra-rich pay far too little in tax (CG and Div, mostly) and the middle class are paying too much (wages, mostly). Compared to the 1950-1980 period, we’re backwards. Multiply this class-deficit over the last 35 years of supply side policy, and you get today’s massive socioeconomic inequality shift (which is worsening at the 10yr moving average rate of 0.5% per year).

    In 1975, the 1%-class (that would be me, by the way) paid 33% of Fed taxes and owned 25% of all wealth. That’s healthy. Today, the 1%-class pays 38% of all tax, but owns 45% of all wealth, when offshore wealth is included. This is backwards, and immoral.

    In 1975, the bottom 50% owned 6% of all wealth. Not much, but healthy. Today, the bottom 50% own 1% of all wealth. Immoral. Same problem in absolute terms. In the 1970s, the average net-worth of families in the bottom 50% was roughly $27,000. Ten years after Reaganomics, in 1989, that had fallen to $22,000. Twenty-four years later, that average net worth had fallen again by half. (These figures are adjusted for inflation.) Where did all that wealth go? It was grossly redistributed to the top. In 1975, the average net worth of top-5% families was $2.8 million. In 1989, the average net worth of top-5% families had risen dramatically to $3.6 million. By 2013, that figure had risen to $6.8 million.

    So, you have half the picture correct: people are living beyond their means. But you miss the other half — our fiscal and tax policies are impoverishing our middle classes and redistributing our common-wealth upwards in immoral proportionality. Roughly 2/3 of GDP is middle-class spending: impoverish your middle class and bankrupt your nation. The NYT just ran an interesting, data-rich piece on this: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/business/putting-numbers-to-a-tax-increase-for-the-rich.html

    1. I’m not missing shit. I have written a multitude of articles about the .1%.

      You miss the point. The 1% includes small business owners, doctors, and people who have earned their money. It’s the .1% who are screwing the country.

      Those who have failed to save will demand that WE who have saved (and are not the .1%) pay for their profligacy.

      I don’t need a fucking lecture on what I haven’t captured in my article.

  66. HSF, I don’t see it as an either/or proposition. Most of my friends are business owners, that’s a different breed of cat. When you bear some responsibility for the lives not only of the people who work for you, but their families as well, it changes the essential nature of who you are as a man. The pride you take in raising a family of solid citizens is a commendable thing, no question

  67. But I take pride in watching my employees kids grow up as well. I provide the conditions, both economically and philosophically, for those families to thrive. It’s one thing to keep your bills paid on time, quite another to make sure a group of families can all pay theirs. Every week, 52 weeks a year. Most people are quite removed from that kind of responsibility

  68. I am always amazed at the cars and expenses low income people are willing to endure. And then all the bitching about how they just can’t get by. The comments on this board confirm that behavior.

    Student parking lots of tons of fancy new cars nicer than mine.
    Mom paying with SNAP cards while talking on her iPhone.
    Cadillac SUV pulling up to the Gift for Tots scramble.

    I make quite a nice income. I could definitely upscale my car, house, phone, restaurant budget, etc. But I don’t because I want to save.

    Bitching about low interest rates is not the point. You have to have an emergency fund. This is just basic grasshopper versus ant behavior.

    In defense of those stuck on low income lives. The government forces people on SNAP to have less than $2,000 in savings. Yikes. I understand the income qualifications but that seems an insane government policy decision.

  69. Sightseer lost before he started. (Fuck you buddy, not a good lead) But savings become irrelevant very quickly when they try to support any kind of sizable organization. 2008 was fatal to many, many businesses. That in turn, was catastrophic for many families. I’m not talking mcmansions and BMW SUV’s, just ordinary people with ordinary obligations that now weren’t going to be met, through zero fault of there own.

    1. starfcker

      Zero fault of their own?????

      If you ran a business and were oblivious to the immense bubbles, then you deserve what you got if you didn’t prepare for the bubble bursting.

      Sorry. I’m not buying it. What about the small business owners who did make it through 2008. Just lucky?

      Take responsibility for your actions and lack of preparation.

  70. I’m torn, between the polar sides of this issue. Admin certainly lays out a scathing critique of the condition of American “savings”, and no doubt there is much personal responsibility that has been neglected. On the other side, much “savings” have concentrated in to the hands of a very few, in a game rigged from top to bottom.
    Moving forward, the middle must regain ownership, if we are to rekindle the torch of American Liberty in this next Turning. To do that, much of Admin’s prognosis must fade, discretionary capital spent on idle consumerism must be redirected into savings and the elimination of interest.
    Own your home.
    Own your car.
    Own your money/savings.
    Own your business.
    And you will own your life, and we will own our Government.

  71. I know a lot of people, like sightseer, who went down with the ship they spent 20 years building. Those people were far more responsible people than savers, or people who planned their retirement. Far more. They got a raw deal. Running a business is all applied micro-economics, starting in 2008, you had better have grasped the macro picture, and quick, or you were dead meat. Quick. And there was very little honest information available at that time

    1. People like Sightseer never take responsibility for their own miserable failures. I’m sure his divorce was all her fault. I’m sure he didn’t leverage his business to the hilt before 2008. I’m sure he is the only one discriminated against because of his age.

      I’m the same age. I lost a job when I was 41. I didn’t bitch about it. I got a better paying job 3 months later. I saw the financial implosion coming so I chose to leave a major homebuilder and take a major pay cut to go to a university.

      I’m sick and tired of all the excuses. Life is hard for everyone. Deal with it or shut the fuck up.

      What a nation of pussies and whiners we’ve become.

  72. Zero fault of the employees, jim. Most business owners never saw the bubbles because macro-economics never really mattered to them. They were way too intent on doing their thing to worry about condo mania in Vegas. Maybe that looks foolish now, but that’s hindsight. I was lucky. I had noticed the quality of persons buying mcmansions and S class benzes didn’t jibe with the income streams that life traditionally required. So I was getting nervous. I knew something was wrong. I just didn’t know what.

    1. If you’re a business owner you better fucking care about macro-economics. That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Who runs a business without understanding the environment they are operating in?

      It does look foolish now. It also looked foolish then.

      Just more excuses and bullshit.

      Own up to your mistakes, live within your means, and put aside something for a rainy day. You know why?


  73. No, they certainly didn’t deserve what they got. Wrong answer. Lots of these people were the finest among us. The caliber of people that strong communities are built around. They are what we are missing now, unafraid to take a chance, to bet it all, again and again, to the betterment of our country and our society. We need people like sightseer, to do what they do

  74. HSF, as usual, eloquently nails it. Saving and investing in financial terms, is wisdom for yesteryear. Build up a savings account, 401k, IRA, Stock Portfolio, etc.? It is all really just bits on some computer screens and all someone else’s obligation. Save in hard-folding cash? Again, just paper. Some is wise for emergency, but it is all just paper. Land? Of course, the most basic form of wealth…but then go read “How Much Land Does a Man Need?” by Leo Tolstoy.

    There’s a line from an old episode of MASH, where someone says “War is hell.” and Hawkeye responds “No, war is war and hell is hell…and of the two war is far worse.” His reason is that there are no innocent bystanders in hell. I always liked that.

    My version is this: whenever I hear someone say “Time is money” I think “No, time is time and money is money…and of the two time is infinitely more valuable.”

    This is the true key to investing at all times, but far more important during crisis, is in Human Capital, as HSF calls it. In other words, it is simply the good will of your fellow humans. There is nothing of more timeless, essential value.

  75. Llpoh told me his payroll was 100 grand a week, yet he and his wife were eating macaroni and driving ten year old cars. That’s what the road to the top looks like. Think he had a rainy day fund that could have mattered?

    1. starfcker

      That’s hysterical. You use Llpoh as your example, when he agrees with every fucking word in my article. Llpoh had a rainy day fund, I can assure you. He didn’t risk it all without a safety net. He has always said that he lived far beneath his means. That is why he was able to create his homestead in Australia.

      Let the excuses and whining continue.

      I love the smell of denial and lack of personal responsibility in the morning.

  76. I read your explanation of how you navigated your employment, great move. But you’re probably smarter and tougher than 99% of working people. That doesn’t mean the other 99% deserve to get fucked. Society should always value people who work hard and play by the rules

    1. You will always get fucked unless you take responsibility for your own life.

      You are making this way more complicated than it is.

      Life is hard for everyone. Big businesses are bad. Politicians aren’t working for you. Accept reality and plan accordingly.

      Millions of Americans have made no effort whatsoever to plan for their future or for ANY unexpected event. The events are not unexpected. They are normal and should be expected. Recessions come every 7 or 8 years. The stock market drops 30% every 7 or 8 years. Most people lose their job at least once in their lifetime. Hot water heaters give out. Roofs leak. Cars need repairs every fucking year.

      Why is this a fucking surprise? Spend less than you make and put some aside for a rainy day.


  77. Starfcker, As a former small business owner I appreciate your comment @ 10:21 & 10:33, it is a huge obligation and responsibility that most people cannot appreciate or understand.

  78. Starfcker

    The problem is the rules are fucked up. Everyone from the single Mom scraping by to Jamie Dimon is singing from the song book “it’s my Party”


    There is no moral hazard anymore. That’s the point.

    But I learned long ago that people might feel sorry for you but at end of day you better get up brush off the dirt and get on with it.

  79. Jim, you’re wrong about this. Llpoh didn’t have ANY safety net. He was betting it all, every week for 20 years. If he had a buck, it went to pay bills TODAY, not some potential rainy day. Starting a business from nothing is an all in proposition, there is no safe way to do it. And once you’re on the ride, the only way off alive is to succeed, even if it takes 20 years. There are no rest stops.

    1. I’ll let Llpoh chime in himself and we’ll see who is wrong.

      I’m sure Donald Trump will solve all our problems and personal responsibility won’t matter in the future.

  80. “Those who have failed to save will demand that WE who have saved (and are not the .1%) pay for their profligacy.”

    Fair enough. I’ve never read you before, and agree that the 1% are not the problem (my 0.9% tax rates are huge). The problem, in brief, is 35 years of scandalously low tax rates on Cap Gains, Dividends, and Carried Interest. Those who derive a majority of their income from CG, DIV, and CI are defined as starting around the 0.1% class, and up. This 35 years of supply-side fiscal policy has been written by a tiny minority of ultra-wealth interests for their interests, not the interest of the 99.9%. This is variously called oligarchy, plutocracy, aristocracy, crony fascism, etc.. and it is the central reason for America’s (and much of the West’s) slide into gross socioeconomic imbalance (the worst imbalance since 1928).

    In response to your essay, consider that from 1950-1980, demand-side fiscal policy created history’s strongest middle economy, with single-earner homes as normative, high savings rates, low debt, and a healthy all-class socioeconomic proportionality. Consider that today’s excessive debt and over-consumption is likely a SYMPTOM of 35 years of growing socioeconomic inequality. Consider that, as policy has redistributed wealth and income-growth from the bottom to the top, it (by definition) has profoundly changed “middle behavior.” If they can’t earn their way to a comfortable life (think 1950-1980), then they borrow their way to the same dream.

    I don’t know if that has any merit, but it’s an interesting theory.

    1. clegg5

      The growing socioeconomic inequality was caused by closing the gold window in 1971 and allowing central bankers, politicians and Wall Street to rape the country with easy money debt, promises that can’t be kept, and relentless inflation.

  81. You have a job, jim. Every two weeks, eight grand shows up in your bank account like magic. How do you think llpoh made 100 grand payroll every week? What if someone was late paying him? Your employees, who love you, will burn your house down if you don’t have their money on friday. It’s just the way it is. No pressure there. “My father taught me to respect people who were successful, because it’s not easy”. Steve Wynn

    1. I wish eight grand showed up in my bank account every two weeks. That’s far from the truth. And guess what? I earn every fucking penny I get paid. Llpoh made payroll by generating a profit in his business. It’s really pretty simple.

      Why didn’t Llpoh’s business go under in 2008 like douchebag Sightseer? Answer me that Sherlock? Was it because he didn’t over-leverage himself?

      The people and businesses who don’t succeed always have one thing in common. Too much debt. Wow. That goes right back to the message of my article.

      Try again big guy.

  82. 149 million “jobs” yet only 44 million tax returns. How can this be? There are NOT 149 million jobs anymore is the ONLY explanation for the dead to right facts of the Social Security Administration.

    Dining out beats food buying which includes SNAP benefits. Wow. According to tax returns filed it sure as hell isn’t “income” paying for the those meals.

    Boomers and a few lucky Gen X’ers are the ones left with pensions, which explains a, albeit small, part of the savings picture. Guess they figure those 44 million tax filing families are going to be able to both pay for their food AND someone else’s retirement “promises.” Good luck with that.

    Those most able to save – and I’m talking the lucky middle connected to good paying union/pension jobs – have saved nothing because of “promises.”

    The next few years are going to be devastating to us all. Whether or not “we” have done the right thing.

    As I doubt there will be a PENNY for my healthcare when I reach old age, I’m not so worried about my “net worth.”

    It is damn cheap to go off into the woods to die.

    Up until that day, I am just happy that I have fostered and fed a relationship with my children where we can all be together and eke out survival – if things get that bad.

    So unlike so many of my friends and family that have contentious, or no, relationships with the spoiled little special snowflakes they raised. To see my son’s dad try SO hard to bribe a relationship with our granddaughter is priceless. Dumass realizes he screwed the pooch with our son, so he hopes being the grandpa of materialism will save his day.

    My little gift isn’t buying it though. The last time he came to town to see her and take her out to dinner, she cried and cried and kept saying, “but I want to go to Nana’s house!” And when the ex’s new wife piped in, she just repeated, over and over, “your not my Nana!” As told to me by my daughter-in-law.

    Very few people can see, let alone take responsibility, for their own actions. Such is the human condition and if you read both Aristotle, and the Gospels, you will soon find there is nothing new under the sun.

    Thanks for continuing to try Jim. I so admire your resolve to awaken the masses to both the mess they created themselves, and the ones raining down on us all. Well, most of us.

  83. “The growing socioeconomic inequality was caused by closing the gold window in 1971 and allowing central bankers, politicians and Wall Street to rape the country with easy money debt, promises that can’t be kept, and relentless inflation.”

    I’m sure that’s part of it, as well as rigged labor laws, intl trade laws, etc.. But from 1970-1984, middle-class wealth remained at healthy proportionality, so we can’t pin the central problem on gold (etc.). In 1975, the 99% class owned roughly 75% of all U.S. wealth. Very healthy. It wasn’t until after supply-side fiscal policies were enacted (early 80s) that 99%-wealth began to be redistributed dramatically upward into the 1%, and mostly the 0.1% layers and above.

    Today, the 99% own just 55% of all U.S. wealth, and continue to shift wealth upward at the 10-yr moving average of 0.5% per year. In 1933, the 99% owned around 45% of all wealth. We’re clearly on-track for a similar 1933-style socioeconomic melt down unless we return to fair all-class policies. Given the power of today’s entrenched oligarch-controlled politics (K-St, Wall St, PACs, etc.), I really don’t see how we can return to fair policies.

    Tiny pockets of power and greed, throughout all of human history, suck all they can, until the system is destroyed, and people start over. That’s just how it’s always worked. Get in ITS way, and IT destroys you. There’s only one potus candidate even remotely talking about this.

    1. clegg5

      Do you really think Bernie Sanders, who articulates the problems well, can fix the problem by taxing the .1% and making college and healthcare free, while increasing the minimum wage to $15, and equalizing pay for women?

      I agree with you the system will need to collapse and hope we can do it better next time.

  84. Clegg says: “Tiny pockets of power and greed, throughout all of human history, suck all they can, until the system is destroyed, and people start over.”

    Conspiracy theorists (and there are more than a few to be found here) love the thought that the .01%, elite, Deep State, whatever you want to call them, are Keyser Soze types that can predict and thereby control the future. No doubt some conspiracies exist, but the best model I have read for the way these people act is as swarm of locusts. It is an orgiastic feast for them, consuming all they see with regard for nothing but the attempt to satisfy their insatiable greed and lust for power, and while it lasts it is cooperative…but only while it lasts. When everything that can be consumed is consumed they will turn on each other with remarkable rapidity and ferocity.

  85. Admin,

    Great article as usual. Common sense is in short supply at all levels of our society – but then we are all driven to insanity by the insanity that surrounds us from every aspect of modern life in this country.

    In regards to this post in particular: I’m a Gen X’er going on 50. I’ve lived my life reasonably frugally, have no debt and some money saved up in the bank in retirement accounts, and some PMs. I got out of the stock market in 2007 when I could see the ship going down so I didn’t get hit by that. Never went back in though because well I figured this couldn’t last and would sink again – clearly I was wrong and probably lost out as a result.

    We all know that the stock bubble will eventually collapse, but yet there’s no yield anywhere else. Real Estate? Another bubble waiting to pop. Not good choices especially at this time.

    As you point out prior to 2008 there were decent investment opportunities, even if it was sticking your money into the bank at 4%-5% interest. But that’s not the case today. I thought after 2008 our system was cooked and didn’t go back into the casino since. As a result while I haven’t lost anything I’m not getting ahead much either. Income alone is not enough to build a retirement fund.
    And in this lovely economic recovery business has slowly been declining just about every year.

    Even if you’re ‘saving’ for a rainy day, unless you’re seriously making bank, you’re not really getting ahead.

    So what exactly are you suggesting to those people that are in debt? That they save a few thousand dollars a year for their retirement? What is that even going to do? You blow through that in a month or year or whatever. Even with my savings that I’ve accumulated – it won’t last for more than 10 years in today’s dollars and who knows with the future’s inflation adjusted dollars.

    I can only imagine if you’re starting from the 0 line (or worse from a sizable debt load) how much that must feel like a futile effort. Bad choices – sure, but at at that point making the right choices unfortunately aren’t going to help your situation much – in fact, as you’ve pointed out in your posts about the welfare state, you’re probably better off faking destitution and letting the nanny state take care of you.

    1. antisocial13

      It sounded like you described my life. I got out before the crash and never went back in. I will never go back in because I don’t trust those pulling the strings. I continue to put 5% of my pay into my 401k because my employer will match my 5% with another 9%. I consider that my return. I put it into short term Treasuries where I won’t lose money during the next collapse. You are right. There are no good choices. There are no good investments. Paying down debt is the best use of money today. Having a rainy day fund is the only way to prepare for a rainy day, and I believe we will have a monsoon in the not too distant future.

      I wish I could go Galt like Hardscrabble Farmer, but I’ve got too many family obligations to meet at this point in time.

      But, life is hard and then we die. All we can do is try and leave a positive legacy with our children and friends.

  86. DRUD, today’s greed isn’t a secret conspiracy. Not even close.

    It’s hiding in plain sight. It’s sustained by K Street interests, by Wall Street interests, by SuperPAC money. It’s sustained by those who write fiscal policy into law, which is a tiny oligarchy that contribute big $$ to political campaigns. They simply assure that their tax rates on their Cap Gains and Divs are far lower than regular wages, rents, and interests. Simple. Multiply this disproportionate taxation over 35 years, and you get today’s gross socioeconomic imbalance.

    Look at it this way. If 35 years ago, I lowered my overall tax rate by 30%, and kept your tax rate the same, where would we both be today? That’s a stupidly simplistic, but otherwise valid description, of how supply side theory has helped a tiny group of ultra-wealth interests, while damaging the core fabric of our nation and its liberty.

    The only conspiracy is how this oligarchy uses its tools (Cato, Manhattan, Heritage, AEI, the 90% news media, and a large number of paid-for politicians) to sustain a blanket of confusion in the minds of most Americans about wealth inequality. Haven’t you heard? If you question supply side theory, you are just envious of the rich. You need to stop being jealous, and work harder.

  87. That you earn every penny not in question. My point is, you can’t backstop a big payroll on the way up. It’s’ way more of a high wire act than you might imagine. Every business has to lever up at times, trick is to not stay there. Doesn’t sound like sightseer was levered, sounds like his cashflow crashed. 2008 was all about liquidity. It sucked, all your routine, almost automatic receivables became uncollectable debts. But quinn still wants his 8k on friday. Or he burns my house down.

    1. Sightseer is not giving us all the facts. He’s giving us the facts he wants us to know. This is the internet you know. I’m sure someone as bitter as him fucked up by his own actions.

      Leverage is what made 80% of the businesses that failed go under.

      Leverage is why millions lost their homes to foreclosure. When you have 0% equity in a $500,000 McMansion, bad things happen. Tough shit. Cry me a river. No one forced the millions of envious assholes to buy more house than they could afford with 0% down.

      You don’t seem to be a big fan of not biting off more than you can chew.

      I’m not burning any houses down. People burn their own houses down by the poor life choices and lack of common sense.

  88. Clegg5- I am in full agreement with your ownership analysis, and there has been much rigging and ‘play’ to move the ownership stats to their current ‘unbalanced’ disposition.
    Admins point is still strong and valid though, our dismal home/auto ownership numbers cannot be shuttled off on the elite.
    Both sets of my grandparents ‘owned’ their homes, not like people say it today: “I am a homeowner” i.e. the bank owns my home and I pay rent to them and the county.
    Many have used their home as an ATM and refinanced the shit out of it, to pay for lifestyle choices that could have been better.
    There is much blame on both sides of the equation for the extreme disparities we are currently looking at, one must evaluate individuals based on their own financial maneuvers, rather than issue sweeping generalizations of blame for our current predicament.
    That said, lets get back to the 99% Owning 75% ratio you alluded to in our ‘healthy’ state.

  89. And, by the way, I agree entirely with the premise that wealth is not generally easy to accumulate, and generally requires discipline and wisdom and frugality to grow. Our net worth is >$10M, but I drive an 11 year old pickup truck, live in a 2,200 s.f. home (paid for), and am debt-free. Many millions in cash invested, along with a business I started 25 years ago, from scratch, that today employs 20+ people and, likewise, has no debt, valued at $5M. We live simply, in an unassuming safe neighborhood, etc…

    Some people got lucky, some people inherited wealth … but most of us need to stay focused, debt-free, and frugal. In a few years, we’re going to get payback on our 30+ years of simple living with a nice home on some nice beach, or two, and giving away a nice sum to high quality charitable interests. But for now we’re simply enjoying the ride. There’s a deep satisfaction that comes with deferring gratification. Life isn’t about wealth. It’s about health and soul satisfaction. The former cannot buy the latter.

  90. I always had a rainy day fund, to the extent that I made sure I had emergency cashflow. I never had negative net worth, although if I had lost the value of the business, I would have. But even then I had a least a year of emergency funds set aside so my family would not be homeless.

    The idea that employees are without blame is unbelievable. Employees via their incompetence, sloth, dishonesty, lack of commitment, etc., play a huge part in businesses failing. They just do not lose their houses when it happens. Blameless? Please.

    Re the asshat that suggests taxing the rich – the rich already pay all the fucking taxes, plus there are not enough of them. Taxing them to death is not the answer – they simple up and leave. Controlling them is the answer.

    Star – you do not know what you are talking about. I never “levered up”. I borrowed against my assets, and then some, to buy shares and build the business. But the business value always far exceeded the borrowings. I was always positive net worth, and the business always spun cash more than sufficient to cover debt.

  91. I lived frugally so I could invest the extra cash – not because I did not have the cash. I have made lots of money each year since my mid-twenties. I invested it by eating mac and cheese and driving an old beater.

  92. “Re the asshat that suggests taxing the rich – the rich already pay all the fucking taxes, plus there are not enough of them. Taxing them to death is not the answer – they simple up and leave. Controlling them is the answer.”

    Mostly not true, Lipoh. I suggest you get familiar with the data.

    In 1975, the 1% paid 33% of Fed taxes, and owned 25% of all wealth. Very healthy. Try to understand the long-term correlation between wealth and taxation metrics. Today, the 1% pay 38% of Fed taxes, and yet own 45% of all wealth (and growing). IMMORAL (and as the Admin has pointed out, most of this imbalance is weighted in the 0.1% and above).

    If we don’t reverse fiscal course soon, the 1% will own >50% of all U.S. wealth, which is DIRECTLY related to tax and fiscal policies multiplied over time, and will return us to the socioeconomic imbalance last experienced in 1933. The data is there if you care to explore it, the NYT just ran an article with data links, etc. I encourage you to read it. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/business/putting-numbers-to-a-tax-increase-for-the-rich.html

    I don’t mean to be rude, but you sound like the common talking points from CNN, MSNBC, Cato, Heritage, and Manhattan. Get familiar with trend data, take a long hard look at it, and then come back with something interesting to say. Talking points are of no interest to anyone.

  93. Clegg – I do mean to be rude. What say you go fuck yourself. I ehit bigger than you, asshole.

    How is one percent of the population paying forty percent of the tax not enough? How is the top ten percent paying effectively it all not enough?

    You think the capital will not flee? Do not be a dolt.

    I did not define “rich” – but most folks think anyone in the top ten % is rich.

    It is a spending and a control problem. Taxing the rich more is a fool’s errand.

  94. ” What say you go fuck yourself.”

    I was interested in a data-based conversation. Bye!

    (my friend, you have not even begun to scratch the surface).

  95. Hi Drud

    I’m not so sure there are more Conspiracy types here than everywhere else. I think you are right about the locust analogy though. The problem I have is things aren’t all that co-operative right now.

    Why is not PC to ask people to be responsible for ones actions.


  96. The NYT article has links to myriad credible academic data sources, but alas you do not seem interested. Pity.

    If you want to argue data, I’m happy to join you. Name calling? That’s not interesting to me. Go find a playground somewhere.

    1. Llpoh and clegg5 are not really that far off in agreement. It’s really the .1% that are the problem and must be controlled and made to pay for their criminality. They have clearly captured the vast amount of wealth in the country, but taxing them more won’t solve anything. Putting a few of them in prison would be more effective, as the remaining .1%ers would start playing by the rules.

    2. clegg5

      Don’t take Llpoh’s diatribe personally. He attacks all newbies to see if they will fight or slink away. It’s sort of a TBP ritual.

      I like your viewpoint. I hope you stick around.

  97. Apples and oranges, jim. Llpoh, you couldn’t backstop your payroll, i.e., your ability to conduct business. The water had to run over the gills or you sank. Employees can sink a business, point taken. Not what happened in 2008. I consider levered up having debt, irrespective of net worth. In a liquidity event like 2008, lots of people thought they had equity, and found out how badly they were wrong, as it was now illiquid. e

    1. Apples and blowjobs, starfcker. You declared that Llpoh had ZERO rainy day funds. He confirmed he had rainy day funds from the time he was in his 20s. Try another storyline. You lose.

  98. My point llpoh, was if your cashflow was interupted, or greatly reduced, as happened to many in 2008, it would have created huge problems instantly. Backstopping that with your emergency funds, AS SIGHTSEER DID, was an obvious choice, but a fatal mistake. Watched it happen all around me, people thought I was crazy to downsize that rapidly

  99. Taxing the .1% will never work because they write the fucking laws. Clegg correctly mentions K Street…these unelected fuckwads LITERALLY write the laws…the asshats on the hill typically don’t even read them…yet they are deciding which laws get enacted. This is why more laws–no matter how well-thought out they are- can never be the answer. We will never see a law written which reduces the size and scope of government–never. We will never see a law to end the Fed. We will never see a law written to bury the current bullshit 70,000 page tax code the salt the earth so none of it will ever grow back. These things MIGHT make a difference but they will NEVER happen.

    Talking about what is to be done with the current system is interesting but just intellectual masturbation. the only practical thing to be done is get out the popcorn, wait for the whole fucking system to collapse under its own bureaucratic weight and be ready to react to rapidly changing conditions under which we all live our lives.

  100. Apples and oranges. Stop jumping back and forth between the business and family. We were talking about the business. Cashflow interupted. Bad day. No contingency plan possible really

    1. Stop misdirecting the argument because you are losing badly. You said Llpoh operated with no rainy day fund because he was running a business and could barely make payroll. You’re full of shit and llpoh told you so.

      I believe Llpoh was running his business in 2008. Why wasn’t he destroyed? Let’s ask him. I’m sure you’ll enjoy his response.

      I love the smell of TBP napalm, it ….

  101. No, Rob, they are not. The cracks in the system are widening at all levels. That this Titanic is going down is not in question–it’s started. The only question is how long till it breaks in half and where are the fucking lifeboats (if there even are any).

    1. DRUD

      It looks like an easy 200 now. And I only had to make 30 of the comments myself. I’m done kicking starfcker’s ass. I’m looking for fresh meat.

  102. No, that’s not what I said. I said you can’t backstop a business with some piddly little rainy day fund. Cashflow gets hammered, you have real problems. I’d try to save the business over a house anyday. I wasn’t destroyed in 2008, either. But it was challenging. Llpoh made it through. That says positive things about his business skills. te

  103. Not I…I’ll never step into the ring with you on financial topics. Financial speak kind of makes my eyes glaze over. On personal responsibility I’m lockstep in sync with you. Yes, I believe my generation has been particularly fucked and millennials are in line to get more so…I am, however, completely fucking sure that whining has never accomplished anything productive in the history of civilization.

  104. On an unrelated note, I just noticed that the “Keep TBP Fighting” thermometer reached its goal. Congrats, Admin. A job well done 24/7/365…Very impressive.

    1. nkit

      Thanks to all who helped achieve the goal. Muck deserves a shout out as he made a large donation yesterday to push us to the goal. But that total is the result of hundreds of generous readers helping out. I appreciate it.

  105. Drud

    Look I get the whole “the cracks are widening” argument. I just don’t understand what that has to do with personal responsibility. I learned a long time ago that one can rant about this and that but when you come home to a house full of small kids they tend to not care about what is going on in world. Rather they just want to know what’s for supper. Sitting around a table with hungry kids ranting about how unfair the world is the recipe for making suicide bombers not good citizens.

  106. I’m finding it interesting that many people our age aren’t in the stock market. Is that correct? Anyone out there still gambling in the casino?

    I got burned in the dot-com bust circa 1999 and the housing crash 2006 and never went back.

    I’ve spent a LOT of time reading about how fragile our whole monetary system and the numbers are shocking.

    So I sat on the sidelines and watched the DOW go from 10K to 17k since the housing crash and totally missed out. I could have easily doubled what I have.

    So I’m still just waiting for the next crash of 30-50%. Then I’m considering jumping in.

    Anyone else going through the same thing?

    (I’d ask this question at the Marketwatch site but it’s lousy with trolls)

    1. Captain Obvious

      You are not alone. And you are not wrong. It’s a rigged casino. Anyone in the market now is playing with fire and they will get burned.

  107. You gotta plan for the burn. Looks like some guys didn’t plan for the burn. Only saw roses and a freeway that lead over a cliff. You have to have a plan B and not a Plan #9 from outer space.

  108. Admin – I survived 2008 with nary a hiccup. I manage cashflow very carefully. And I keep liquidity up. No problemo in 2008, despite a sales hit. I responded fast, cut labor,overhead, etc., and stayed profitable and cashflow positive.

    Re clegg the dipshit, he was fine until his bullshit about me being interesting and knowing what I amtalking about. A newbie crowing about his net worth straight away is a bit rich, and deserved a kick in the balls.

    Re the rich, historically, if you tax them at higher rates, they do not pay more money. Why? They defer chrystallizing capital gains, the pay themselves less dividends, and they move capital to greener pastures.

    Re distribution of wealth, most economist are saying that if you do manage to redistribute, the entire standard of living of a nation will drop. Fucking great. But hey, at least everyone will be poor.

    I like Admin’s idea – crucify the fucking criminals among the rich. Taxing them will not work.

    Here is why taxing them will not work, in a real life example.

    I know a guy that runs an office of a couple of dozen accountants, financial gurus, and tax lawyers.

    The office works entirely for one guy. He is not even a billionaire – worth around $800 million. But he employs literally 25 experts who do nothing but minimize his tax and advise him on investments.

    Imagine what the mylti-billionaires have going on – dozens and dozens of minions and lobbyists, etc.

    Those fuckers have extreme resources at work protecting their assets and minimizing their tax. They simply cannot be taxed to death – they are too capable of preventing it, legally or otherwise.

    Put the crooks among them in jail.

    I knew that pussy clegg would cut and run. All hat no cattle.

  109. Rob, it has nothing to do with personal responsibility. Just an observation. Now, I do think that the specifics of personal responsibility have changed. Things that were very responsible in the past (like having a savings account and putting as much as possible in it each paycheck) MAY no longer hold true.

    Shielding one’s family from the dangers and chaos of the world at large is yet another topic, a delicate balance and a big, thankless and absolutely necessary responsibility.

  110. Sightseer is right that the Gen-Xers got royally screwed. Admin is right that they don’t accept personal responsibility for bad choices. Speaking for myself and other anarchists, we are emphatically NOT asking that provident, responsible people be taxed to pay for our bad choices (if any), so it’s nobody’s damn business what I spend my money on or how much I have saved for retirement. If people just stopped trying to live at other people’s expense, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Obviously, though, not going to happen.

    TE, your comments are often so sympatico with my feelings, it would be nice to meet you in those woods on those last days, just for companionship; I swear my intentions are honorable…

    1. Circanow

      Yeah. I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth in the 900 square foot Collingdale row home owned by an ARCO truck driver and his stay at home wife, the 2nd of three kids. I worked my way through college and commuted to keep costs down. Got me a fantastic $18,000 per year gig at an accounting firm and went to classes at night on my own dime to prepare for the CPA exam. Got my CPA. Got a controller job. Then I got an accounting manager job and went to class at night for three years to get my MBA. Amazingly, this led to a promotion to Treasurer. I’ve continued to advance in my career. All along the way, I NEVER ran a credit card balance BECAUSE I always lived beneath my means. Got it asshole?

      Fuck you and your snide bullshit about personal responsibility. Let’s hear your tale of woe you lowlife cocksucker.

      Fuck you and your privilege bullshit. What a bunch of losers, whiners and pussies have arrived on this thread.

  111. Circanow – You must mean me. I was born into severe privilege. It was a privilege to be born into a family of illiterate, dustbowl Okie Native Americans. And I am damn proud of it.

    You fucking moron.

  112. Administrator says:
    You will always get fucked unless you take responsibility for your own life.”

    Taking responsibility for your own life includes accepting that you *might* get fucked a time or two through no fault of your own and that your going to get fucked several times due to your own stupidity. Shit happens to all of us. The difference is that those who take responsibility for their lives learn from their experiences and mistakes then take measures to reduce these risks and get ahead in spite of the setbacks.

    I’m no genius. I’ve made numerous mistakes. I still get ahead even in this economy. There is no secret to it. Spend less than you earn and SAVE the difference. Sounds too simple, too mundane but it works.

    If you’re broke and unable to save but have a cell phone, big screen TV, car payment, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, do drugs, eat fast food or at restaurants, attend concerts/sporting events etc………….YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG! You’re not broke, you just make shitty choices.

  113. Clegg5 I hope you stick around and participate in the future, you make a lot of good points and seem more stable and logical than a lot of folks. It’s a good smart crew here and your opinions will be appreciated.

  114. Star – it is difficult to run a business, as I know you know. A lot of folks run businesses that are marginally viable. When marginally viable businesses are combined with mediocre management skills, the odds of failure explode.

    I have lots of experience, a broad skill set, and an aversion to marginally viable businesses. If the business is not a winner, or is a winner disguised as a loser – and it is generally possible to tell if it is – then I would not go near it. I advise severe caution re marginally viable small business. Those businesses generally do not thrive, and it is best to cut bait with them. People running such businesses have often bought jobs, not businesses. If a business cannot be profitable down to a very low break-even point, it is a dicey thing to be in. Good management can drive the breakeven point down, but there is a limit.

    Small business is damn hard and very risky.

  115. Llpoh. Agreed. I laugh when I see the bank commercials that show cupcake stores and doggie daycare. Chase is here to partner with YOU, and make your small business a success! They will bleed you dry.

  116. Admin is in rare form. Where have all the newbies worthy of TBP gone? Where are the future AWDs, Stucky’s, SSS’s, TE’s, Hope’s, Coyote’s, IS’s, Muck’s, et al these days? God forbid to even dream of a successor to Smokey. Hell, I would even love to see someone with bb’s gumption pop up.

    Come out and play you pussies. I know you want to. Trial by fire is the TBP way. Sack up and post.

  117. circumcisionow says:
    “I wonder how many who pontificate ad nauseum about “personal responsibility” were born into privilege?”

    Not I. I was born in a military hospital to a career Air Force NCO and stay at home mom. Income was quite low and I never felt poor. I’ve never known privilege and doubt that I ever will. Making my own way is far more satisfying and meaningful than playing the “poor me” card or depending on the govt for my existence.

  118. Hell, I forgot to taunt SSS.

    SSS – take a look at all of Admin’s figures, and please point out to me where all those middle class folks are that are doing the right thing. Hmmm. I do not see that cohort anywhere.

    “We seek him here, we seek him there,
    Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.
    Is he in heaven? — Is he in hell?
    That damned, elusive Pimpernel”

  119. @Captain obvious,

    Holy shit, it seems I have an evil twin! A kindred spirit! Maybe you have commented here before, but this is the first time I’ve seen you.

    I’m in the same boat as you are, as far as staying out of the stock market. I’m 45 so I went through the same thing you did. Got burned by the dot-com bust when I was barely 30 and had only been putting money into a 401K for three years. Started to recover in the mid-2000’s and then got monkeyhammered again with the 2008 crash. I didn’t sell at the bottom, but once I got back to the point where I had recovered all my employer matches I got out and haven’t been back.

    I do have leftover 401K money sitting in a couple of different accounts, but it’s mostly in cash. I’m like you – I mean I got burned twice for crying out loud – and it’s obvious the stock market is no longer a place to “set it and forget it” and make steady returns. After all those years I might as well have just been sitting on cash anyway. The only way to make money in the stock market if you aren’t an HFT algorithm is to buy when there is a big crash and then sell when it goes back up. So like every ten years you make a big pile of money all at once. But I’m not confident in my ability to identify those good buying and selling points. (I prefer Lending Club.)

    I also agree with you on the no-marriage/no-kids thing. My boyfriend is a few years younger than I am. He went to college a little later in life, after he knew what he wanted to go to college FOR, which I think was smart. But he’s got some student loan debt to dig his way out of now. He’ll do it, because he makes good money in a good field and keeps getting promoted. But I’m the one in the relationship with the asset base. He’s a man’s man until the end, though, and always says he doesn’t want to marry me until he can bring something besides debt to the table. Personally I don’t care about getting married. I’m solitary and set in my ways – I’m not sure I even want to live with someone – we each have our own homes and spend weekends together. Maybe we’ll tie the knot someday when we get old.

    And kids, oh brother … ask Admin what a broken record I am, always posting on here, “Don’t have kids.” But someone has to say it! As you so astutely pointed out, people tend to do what everyone else seems to be doing, and they think having kids is mandatory for some unfathomable reason. I’ve actually had people tell me I “have to” have kids. Um, because your cousin Guido is going to take me out back and shoot me if I don’t? Who says I “have to?” It’s totally optional!

    Some of these broke-assed people should probably think twice about it. I saw Jim’s article on Zero Hedge and some guy was complaining that even though he worked hard and never took vacations he was broke and couldn’t save money … and he has four kids. (facepalm …) At some point, if you’re skating that close to the edge, doesn’t that make you a bad parent? It’s one thing to put yourself at risk of homelessness, but to bring new people into existence and put THEM at risk, too? Shit, I wouldn’t even adopt a pet if I couldn’t afford it.

    Like you, I was simply never a big fan of kids. But if you are going to bring a child into this world knowing their standard of living will be lower than yours, yet you are always broke and can’t even help them get started in life, what’s the point? Just so they can live their entire lives sliding further and further toward a third world standard of living? I’m going to do that to someone because I need something to cuddle?

    I hope you post here more often, and if you and your girlfriend are ever visiting the Midwest, my sweety and I would be happy to meet you for drinks. I haven’t had this much fun reading someone’s posts since Billah’s Wife started showing up.

  120. I have a modest, 1200 sq. ft. house in the suburbs. My mortgage payment is probably less than I could rent for in this area.

    I have 2 credit cards. One has zero balance, one has about $2000 on it.

    My Chevy Blazer is 19 years old. My one “toy” is my motorcycle, which I paid $3500 (cash) for 5 years ago.

    I don’t go out to bars, I don’t buy coffee at Starbucks – I really don’t do anything that you could call extravagant. The closest thing would be to take my daughter out to eat once or twice a month (I’ve been a single daddy for 13 years). She’s fine with McDonalds, but we sometimes splurge and go somewhere “fancy” like TGIF’s.

    My “sins” are a few cocktails at home every week, and I smoke cigarettes. The booze is maybe $20/week and, since I “roll” my own cigarettes, that’s about $15/week. Which means that $140/month supports my wild and crazy lifestyle.

    I make almost exactly the national average income, so I’m not exactly poor, nor am I anywhere close to being rich. I could make more if I were to switch jobs, but the one that I have has certain advantages (close to home, workable schedule, etc.) that make it worthwhile to stay.

    And, yet, I live paycheck to paycheck. I have about $400 in my savings account. I do contribute the maximum to my 401K, so I’m not completely “irresponsible” as you would have it.

    So, eminent swami, do tell me where I’m pissing all of my money away, because I’m not seeing it.

    The problem is that I prefer to live alone. I enjoy being single and unfettered by a relationship. And without a second income in today’s America, it’s very difficult to live without struggling.

    And so, while I won’t tell you to “fuck off”, I will say that you need to look a bit deeper than the stereotype of every American trying to “keep up with the Joneses”, because there are fewer of them than you imagine.

    1. Yes Warmongrel

      Since your personal situation does not match what data describing tens of millions proves beyond a doubt, my article isn’t deep enough. Sorry. There are many more of them than you imagine.

      Are you a single daddy due to divorce? If you want me to judge your life, I’ll need all the pertinent facts. I’m sure you haven’t left anything out. Right? This is the internet.

      I won’t tell you to fuck off. I treat commenters with the exact same tone with which they start their comments.

  121. Warmongerel, I don’t know how old you are, but if it was me giving you financial advice, I’d tell you to quit contributing the maximum to your 401K and keep more cash on hand.

    Your spending sounds like it is steady and predictable. That’s a good thing.

    But just put enough in your 401K to take maximum advantage of the company match, consider that to be all the money you will ever make on it, and put those contributions into a stable cash account for now.

    Beyond that, don’t contribute to a 401K at all and put the leftover money into a savings account. They don’t pay shit for interest, but it’s a damn sight better than paying credit card interest rates if your car breaks down.

    You are keeping too much of your money tied up in something you won’t be able to access (without significant taxes and penalties) for years and years.

    Build up your immediately-available cash balance first. THEN, once you have that base covered, you could go back to increasing your 401K contribution. You’re probably not in a high enough tax bracket for the income-deferment to make a difference.

    My thought is that you need at least $5K in a savings account in case your old Blazer dies. I myself drive a 16-year-old GM vehicle that keeps on chugging. But this way you never have to worry about a car payment.

    Any other regulars want to chime in on this? How would your advice be different?

  122. @Admin,

    Since you are my personal servant, a topic of interest has popped up repeatedly and I would like YOU to do the research and craft a thoughtfully-written article about it.

    Here’s what it is: Is divorce the most expensive mistake a person can make? I thought it was buying a condo, but it turns out divorce might even beat a condo purchase, especially if the divorcing couple has kids.

    My parents were Silents, and divorce didn’t seem to happen much in their generation, but (I am Gen X) some of my classmates had older Boomer parents who started divorcing in droves.

    What would be interesting is how divorce impacted these Boomers financially, now that it’s a few decades down the road.

    Now we even have some history on Gen X as well.

    You’ve got people like myself and Captain Obvious, who are like ‘fukkit’ to the whole thing. Other X’ers got divorced and repeated the same pattern, presumably because they never learned from their own parents or anyone else in their lives how to properly choose a spouse.

    Maybe these “financial planners” should just stop peddling their goddam mutual funds and really do their clients a service by directing them to someone who can teach them how to do a good job picking someone to marry.

    If you could come up with some charts and graphs showing how much money American households COULD have saved over, say, the last twenty years, by not getting divorced, that would be absolutely fascinating!

    As for me in my little corner, I am kind of pissed because I can’t list “Spinster” as my marital status on any official forms, anywhere. “Single” makes me sound like a slice of cheese.

  123. Warmongrel

    I need some further data since this swami uses facts. What is your mortgage payment?

    What is your income?

    How much did you have to pay the mother of your child to go away so you could live a solitary existence?

    How much is the maximum you contribute to your 401k?

    What is your 401k balance?

    I await the pertinent data, since you want me to judge you.

  124. @circanow orhowever you spell it lol yep I remember before I was born the good lord saying I was going to be born into a hick family from hazard Kentucky and that the best I could hope for were worthless mongrels leeching off me cause im white . and a Man . And we agreed that I would be born in the USA and that by the time I was old enough to work I had to work harder than others to overcompensate for affirmative action and quotas and what not . Yessire ,now I got 50 % of my income going to welfare leeches and other assorted nonsense and social security wont pay disability for my 2 handicapped kids because my friggen car is worth 4k? really motherfucker?

  125. Looks like this will be an article that brings out the trolls who refuse to accept personal responsibility for fucking up their own lives. It’s always someone else’s fault. The bankers forced them into debt. They just had to buy that 4,000 sq ft McMansion with 3% down. How could they possibly drive a 10 year old Honda Civic to work.

    … says the university administrator.

    Dude! Do you even realize the hypocrisy embedded in those words?

    Your living is provided to you by the beast you decry.

    I drive a 20 year old Accord to work, and I derive no part of my income from the beast.

    So please, preach your self-righteous dogma and tell me how self-sufficient you are.

    Yeah, lots of people fucked up- including me. For the past dozen years I have tried desperately to make things right. I started a private enterprise and shunned gubmint work.

    Try those shoes on. I guarantee you’ll learn something.

    1. acethinker

      You should change your alias to shithead thinker. You are so fucking stupid, you don’t even understand the definition of hypocrite. Let me explain it to you in baby words so someone even as intellectually challenged as yourself will understand. Now put on your thinking cap.

      If I was a hypocrite I’d be heavily in debt, living in a 4,000 foot McMansion with no equity, driving a leased BMW, and sucking off the teat of the state. Let’s see. I have no debt other than my mortgage at 3.25%. I’m living in the same 2,100 square foot house I bought in 1995. I didn’t use it as an ATM, so I happen to have over $200,000 of equity in the house. We drove our CRV for 12 years and 240,000 miles. We drove our Olds minivan for 14 years and 160,000 miles before it gave out. We replaced them with USED Honda Civics. How ironic based on my statement.

      Do you even know what a university administrator means? What a dumbass you are. You actually think I work for a school dependent on the Federal government. Jesus Christ you are a bonehead. I’m the administrator who plans every dime brought in and spent by my school. Guess what? Not a fucking dime from the government. Get that through your thick skull douchebag. This isn’t the University of Phoenix you idiot. It’s one of the top business schools in the fucking world. We turn down 90% of the geniuses who apply.

      I’m certainly not shocked you fucked up your life, because people with your level IQ fuck up most things. I’m betting your “private enterprise” (giving blowjobs in back alleys) will probably fail.

      Now go back to the dictionary and learn the definition of hypocrite. And while you’re at it check out the definition of shithead.

  126. Acetinker – bend over. Admin is gonna kick your ass. I am going for popcorn for the show.

    He is probably asleep so it may have to wait awhile. But this should be fun. I believe he will really love the hypocrite comment. Not.

  127. Admin- Nice momentum ! This not only smells like victory…….it looks like victory. Your engagement of the trolls is a thing of beauty. Second in command Llpoh, holding the line well…good job Loopey.

    FWIW- I have lived in the same house for 40 years, stayed married for 45 years, been in business for many decades and I have lived beneath my means the biggest part of my life. Admin says, Asians don’t divorce and that is their financial advantage in life and why they have more household income. There really is something to good old fashioned stability. Try it you might like it Gen-X complainers….stay in one place……stay together and bypass the trendy crap Madison Ave. says you just have to have.

    OBTW- I don’t own or want a Iphone and you could not give me cable tv…one small tip for saving a lot of money.

  128. Bea – occasionally wage earners ask me advice re changing jobs, etc. I try to avoid direct advice, but generally I point out that those who manage to stay employed without gaps of unemployment end up doing well. A couple of even short term stints of unemployment can do a person great harm.

    And as has been pointed out by such as yourself – choose wisely re partners, where you live, etc. Those decisions pay off, or not, depending on the wisdom shown.
    Good work.

  129. Is it really a problem if there are only 3 digits in my “savings” account, when I don’t have any real expenses and save about 30% of every dollar that comes my way? Why make a deposit when saving in cash is not subject to bail-in? 6 months of spending fits in a gallon Zip-Lock bag in paper currency (even in the pitifully-low-value “large” $100 FRN). A stack of Benjamins is actually LESS convenient and will soon weigh more than the gold it can buy.

    Gold and Silver are money, according to 2 billion Asians and their written language. Paper is “currency”, as is a VISA debit card/credit card. Don’t confuse the 2, esp. for long-term savings.

    Being a US Veteran (sans pension or disability status) has been a mixed financial blessing, but recently generated a letter from the VA informing me that I am exempt from all aspects of ObamaCare. This may be worth thousands of dollars a year to me and/or my employer in the next few years. Finally, some monetizing (not really, more “financial disaster avoidance” than cash) of the years when my cohort was making 6+ figures at M$ and Oracle (or being rock stars for major labels) while I froze my butt off in a RoK binjo ditch. Changi!

    GenX males have been eff’ed pretty well, and didn’t even know it (raised by TV and single working mom, then Title9 good-times for our sisters, and worthless wives). Survival is the best revenge. At 47, in good shape and not insane/drunk, I have my pick of cuties 20 years my junior. “You have a CAR…..?” Yep, two of them, both older than you with clear titles and factory service manuals, sweetie.


  130. AP- Smoothest attempt to pick up a woman (The lovely TE) I have ever seen in a blog. This is a whole new side of your complex persona…….who knew?

  131. I’ll be 75 shortly. Married 51 years. 4 kids. All college educated. Retired at 59. I won’t tell you all my financial conditions but I’ll give you one piece of advice. I’ve had NO debt for the past 27 years and it is the one thing that made the past 27 years possible. It doesn’t take a lot to live when you have no debt.

  132. Oh, and one other thing. I’m so glad I was born 75 years ago because 20-30 years later and I wouldn’t have a fucking dime.

    1. starfcker has his ass kicked all over this thread so he cheers on the troll acethinker. That says a lot about starfcker and his intellect.

  133. If things are so bad then HOW THE FUCK do these sports arenas get filled out every night … $200 to watch a meaningless baseball game yet somehow the country is on the verge of collapse. I mean come on dude if I can afford to buy a prostitute one night a week then shit must still be pretty damn good.

    1. procrastinator

      Are you as dumb as you seem? Did you read the fucking article or is it above your 85 IQ level. CREDIT cards you douchebag.

    1. Paul

      Don’t let the fucking door hit you in the ass on the way out. Make sure you make the minimum payment on that credit card.

  134. Well – after reading through almost all of the comments here I can tell you for sure I’m the dumbest son of a bitch in the bunch.

    Gen X’er mid 40’s.

    I started a business, sold and bought a house and moved 1000 miles in 2008.

    I’m married with two kiddies – a daughter with some pretty major health issues and a son I am damn proud of. He’s 14, smarter than me and humble about it. What more could a dad ask for? Every night at the supper table we pray together as a family and give thanks mostly for each other. I think it’s more important to love than it is to be bitter (although there are moments). Always remember – no matter how bad you think your life is at that moment some one else’s sucks even more.

    I’m still happily married to an attractive, loyal, intelligent woman that I gleefully chase around the house as often as possible. My kids think its gross. I think its funny. Mrs. Marion tolerates all of us. We still plan on getting real old together. It hasn’t always been easy but thankfully she’s a patient woman and I don’t hear very well.

    Two years ago I bought a Mercedes C class because I was having my version of a mid life crisis. I also picked up a neat little wool cap to wear while I was driving it. I looked like an idiot. I ditched the cap and gave the car to Mrs. Marion. I now drive her 10 year old SUV and promise to never have another mid life crisis again or buy another funny hat.

    I have savings but don’t worry too much about it. Retirement is over rated and besides – I look stupid in funny wool hats. I can barely imagine what I’d look like in fucking white golf pants and a polo shirt. The thought of sitting around some retirement community in Florida or Arizona makes me want to puke anyways. I figure when its time I’ll wander off into the woods and end it “Legends of the Fall” style and let a big G bear chew my ass.

    Some times I spend more than I should. When I do I usually sell something or work more doing something on the side of what I normally do to pay it off. Buy shit, sell shit make a profit. Work more when you have too and play more when you can. Some days I’m burnt out by it all but after a day of peace and quiet I am bored and ready to roll. By and large I see life as kind of an adventure.

    Currently I am teaching myself to never get too attached to stuff. Including slick looking German sports car and wool hats.

    Life is what we make it people. You makes your choices, you live with them. The good ones and the bad ones.

    If you think its more important to have money, savings and vacations in Europe than family then go wild. If you spend more on your kids than you earn that’s your choice. Both roads carry some mighty awesome consequences in time. Just make sure you got your big boy panties on when those consequences come a calling. Cause you’re gonna need them.

    I know I wear mine every day. God has a sense of humour – he likes to keep me on my toes which means I never take the good stuff for granted or expect things to always go my way. Life would be boring if it were otherwise.

    As for sympathy for my fellow Gen X’ers I’ll leave you with a little advice from a guy who had it hard – my dad. He said son – if you are looking for sympathy you can always find it – in the dictionary right between shit and syphilis.


  135. It’s easy enough to say that men who get married and/or have kids deserve the consequences of their foolish decision (divorce court rape), but there’s a problem: most men have no idea of what really goes on in family courts. It is certainly unconstitutional and unjust, but it is also un-publicized, at least by the MSM.
    The message IS starting to get out, however.

  136. Karalan – how can any man not know the ass raping that happens in divorce? Quit making excuses. Sure, divorce and family court is against men. It is no damn surprise.

    Marry a bimbo and get what you get.

    Marriage is the single most important decision a person ever makes. If you get it wrong, tough titty to you.

    Seriously, where did all these whiny-ass punk pussies come from? A lot of folks need to grow a pair and step up close to the plate. I am tired of all these squat to pee types posting. Hell, our womenfolk – TE, Hope, PJ, KaD, et al, all have big brass ones, but these men cannot find a pair.

    No wonder the birth rate is down – not a single swimmer do some of these pussies have.

  137. Not late to this party, but too busy enjoying a real life out here in the hinterlands where my husband and I are now retired at 58 and 53 because once I went to work when my son was 9 years old, we pretended I didn’t and paid everything off. Got so used to that that we saved every dime and bought this land, then bought a log home kit on layaway for three years. Then we bugged out.

    My son is getting his damned degree debt free (Electrical/Computer Engineering… the brat was supposed to invent a better solar power conversion system for me, but is overly interested in computers) and the chickesn are laying eggs daily now.

    My Gen Xer cousin is going to Miami for Halloween and then to Colorado on a ski trip for Thanksgiving and her daughter (12) just got out of the hospital from crashing a dirt bike she wasn’t supposed to be riding when no one was home. Their part of the bill? $33K, but she says as long as she sends ten or twenty a month, no biggie.

    I’ve got worms to dig for chickens.

    Hey, Admin… if you aren’t too angry at the Sightseer to answer me this? I took some APIJ samples to a gathering last night and received the comment that there was too much coconut in the blend. (I use the coconut oil to carmelize the spices) What are your thoughts? Do you want your quart for forwarding emails?

    1. Maggie

      It’s too expensive to keep shipping things to me. You should save your money and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

  138. And get this… remember how my son got hit on his way back to college a few weeks back? Well, he was driving a POS 2001 Mazda he bought his senior year of High School for 2800 bucks and we’d intended it to last through college, when he would take over my 2009 vehicle and then I get something new.

    Well, I explained blue book value to him and told him that it really wasn’t worth much… and FREAKING GUESS WHAT?

    State Farm sent him a check for $2983 for the Total of the Mazda and will be contacting him about payment for his injuries.

    The kid lives a charmed life, I’m telling you. He must be living right.

      1. I’ve called the waaaaambulance for all the shitheads who forgot life was hard and bad things happen. And most of the bad things are due to their own actions. Whaaaa.

        1. I’m still waiting for Warmongrel’s financial data. Is it possible he really didn’t want my advice and was just being a passive aggressive sarcastic bitch asshole?

          Maybe he’s outside smoking and drinking.

  139. We’ve gotten what we’ve rewarded – mindless consumption, high debt, and no savings. To reverse this, get rid of the income tax on married couples making less than $250,000, institute a national sales tax, and get rid of all taxes on investment gains.

    When you’re talking free market system, you’re talking Pareto’s Law: 20% will always dominate 80% of the economy. And within this group, 4% will control 64%, and so on until you reach the .01% controlling 50%. The Law deviates a little, maybe 70-30, but it remains fairly constant. Human nature, is like gravity – arguing won’t change it.

    The US has been a nation of consumers from day one, first with land, and from there expanding in form and taste by virtue of choice and availability. The 20th century, with the introduction of mass-media advertising and intrastate banking and credit, simply enabled the system to manipulate the masses all the more, such that by the early 1980s credit exploded, to became the third leg of a three-legged stool (two-worker households, longer work hours, and credit).

    Nowadays, the work is gone, and with it the longer hours, and we’ve maxed out personal credit by encumbering the largest asset most people own, their home, and for youth, their earning power, via the home-equity and student loans.

    Mindless, lumbering consumption isn’t going away on it’s on. Neither are those finding blame anywhere but where it belongs. Yes, we were sold an implicit bargain at the turn of the 19th century, mainly that of leaving rural areas where a person had many skills sets, in exchange for accepting one job with few skill sets in an urban environment and a lifetime of supposedly stable income.

    That deal is long gone and yet Americans for the most part have been slow to grasp it. Now many find themselves with few or outdated skill sets, no job opportunities, and a mountain of debt. What else did they think was going to happen? Spending mindlessly isn’t a zero-sum game – it enriches one small side and impoverishes the many others: The money winds up in the hands of the few and the masses, by-and-large, end-up broke.

    Who didn’t see this coming? The 80%, that’s who. And yes, there were a smaller number of the 80% that did, took action by avoiding mindless consumption, and still struggle. Regardless, the outcome was and is inevitable, and all that remains is to see it through to its logical (illogical?) conclusion: Collapse.

    The limbering masses aren’t going to give up the absurd pursuit of crap and the system benefiting from the parasitic arrangement isn’t about to change, regardless of who runs the country. It’s simply sheer inertia.

  140. “AP- Smoothest attempt to pick up a woman (The lovely TE) I have ever seen in a blog.”
    ———— BEA LEVER

    BULLSHIT !!!!!

    I got THREE WOMENZ (Avalon, HZK, and Marianne) to go on a DATE with me in NYC a couple weeks ago.

    Beat That!!!!!

  141. @Warmongerel,

    Your situation is very workable and immediately upgradeable. I sure that divorce, alimony and child support took their toll but shit happens. Learn from it and move on.

    My advice? Downsize your home as long as you won’t get raped doing so. Twelve hundred sq ft is a good size and should sell quickly (if you had to) in most markets to those who are downsizing their unaffordable McMansions. You and your daughter can easily get by with less than 1200 sq ft and it will be cheaper to heat, insure and maintain.

    Cancel the lesser of your two credit cards. Pay off the other one ASAP as in yesterfuckingday! Regardless of how much your payment is, that payment will benefit you far more than the CC company.

    I agree with PJ above regarding the 401k. Reduce contributions to the minimum required to get the match. Use the difference to pay off your credit card and any other debt except for the mortgage. Being cash rich in this economy is far better that having it tied in an inaccessible investment.

    After that, build an emergency fund equal to a minimum of one months pay/expenses. That is an absolute minimum. An emergency fund equal to two to twelve months pay would be far better and should be a short/medium term priority.

    Skip eating out for the benefit of your daughter. Instead, pick some of her favorite foods and make a day or weekend out of shopping for ingredients and teaching her how to prepare them with you at her side. Teach her how to make a birthday cake for mommy. Trust me, she will treasure the time spent with you teaching her things far more than a few minutes spent at McShits. You’ll both be happier too. Replace an “eating experience” with some other activity that keeps you and your daughter fully engaged with each other. Teach her to plant a garden or something. Maybe you could both take a karate, boxing or swimming class together. Go hiking, camping, hunting or fishing. Equip her with life skills and activities that will help her long after you’re gone. Teach her how to avoid the unfortunate divorce that you suffered.

    I don’t know about you but when I was a kid (I’m 47), eating out was not a once of twice a month happening. It was a rare treat for the most part.

    Drop the gigs. Drop the cigs. Drop the cigs. Drop the cigs. Drop the cigs. Drop the cigs. Oh yeah……..DROP THE FUCKING CIGS! Sixty extra dollars a months really puts a dent in a puny $2000 credit card debt. There are hidden costs to cigs as well like increased health, life and homeowners insurance premiums. Longer term expenses like high blood pressure, asthma and heart disease drugs that await you in addition to treatment costs. Plus it’s a nasty habit your daughter should see you avoid, not indulge in.

    Once the credit card debt is gone, NEVER charge anything to it unless you already have the money on hand to pay it off.

    Drop the booze until all debt is paid off. Think of it as a delayed reward for clearing the debt. Now you have $140 extra to put towards the debt! If $60 put a dent in the debt, $140 kicks its ass! You’re welcome!

    Want to really kick the savings into high gear? Pretend your house is on fire……you have five minutes to save the most important things you own. Now sell everything else unless you use it daily, weekly or monthly or it can be used to earn an income like tools. You’ll be amazed what you can live without. Use the money to fund savings or eliminate debt. You didn’t mention a college fund for your daughter so get that started.

    Snag a second, part time job to fund savings and pay down debt. I’ll bet many of your neighbors pay a lawn service to cut their grass. You could be the guy cutting a dozen lawns each week right in your own neighborhood. You could earn an amount in one day equal to the current value of your savings account. Probably more! Get your daughter involved and teach her the value of savings.

    Without knowing more it’s hard to be more detailed but I’d bet there’s a cable/satellite bill that could be eliminated along with a cell phone bill. You’re old enough to know that billions of humans have lived full, meaningful lives on this planet without cell phones. If you have a true emergency and NEED a cell phone, you are surrounded by millions of sheep who could place a call for you or let you borrow theirs.

    Stop flipping admin shit and spend that time stepping up your game. Besides improving your life, you have an example to set for your daughter. Teach her what you learn and maybe she can avoid your mistakes.

  142. Admin… excellent work. I visited with an aunt last night and she told me that one of my cousins’ divorce was caused by the husband’s constant insults about her intellect. (Not her child, so we both cracked up because this particular cousin is a booksmart idiot.)

    The husband told her “My mother holds a better conversation than you and the only thing she reads are the jokes in Readers Digest.”

    I love my aunt, widow of my uncle whose business was downscaled due to his workers suing for backpay for overtime. Which he paid, then closed down his business and turned it over to his son.

  143. Admin – very nice indeed. Very very nice. These newbies really have no idea. Old dogs that survived here were forged in the fires of hell. I long for another “should have ducked” or “thumb ring” or “OWS” thread. We beat on each other for days. And the differences between us could be measured in microns.

    These newbies have it too easy. They cut and run at one “get fucked”. Bah humbug.

  144. I kinda like Warmongerel. I just read a short article on his site called Do-it Yourself Deportation. I’ve the exact same opinion for years with just a couple sadistic tweaks.

  145. @IS… this is what I tell people about how it is done.

    All you really need is Enough. And Enough is a hell of a lot less than most people think it is.

  146. Maggie, I just wish I’d learnt that about twenty years earlier. I might be alongside llpoh building my doomstead right now instead of still slogging away. Better late than never no longer applies because this world is a powder keg and even at 47, I certain that collapse and recovery will consume the majority of my remaining days.

  147. @Llpoh

    On your response to Karalan and marriage (back a-ways, up the posts)…AMEN, brother!

    Marriage and family are collectively the toughest institution in America, and as the Navy used to advertise, “It’s the toughest job you’ll ever love.”

    And any guy that doesn’t quit his job at least once a day isn’t really being tried…it IS hard out there, but as they saying goes, “Once you commit, you don’t quit.” Too many people have their head up their point-of-contact; get married and have a family? It ain’t about “YOU” anymore. Period.

    That’s the deal, so don’t enter it lightly and don’t treat procreation or the possibility of it like a game. I’m beyond fed up with the whining crap that comes out of peoples mouths over, “sacrificing my life away,” etc. Of course you are! Who the Hell isn’t? It goes with the landscape, pal. You signed on, you’re in for the duration, or at least as long as it takes to get your kids self-supporting and competent to enter the world. No one walks away from that.

    If you’re going to be stupid, you had best be tough, and the more stupid you are, the tougher you better be.

  148. Is my newest marketing idea… my son and other friends have convinced me to pressure can it and sell it. Putting it in a Redneck Wineglass…


  149. Stucky- You are the one blathering BULLSHIT!!!

    Them womenz was on a date in NYC WITH their husbands not you, does not count. Even you have to admit AP was delivering a smooth line to TE……..the boy is talented.

  150. I’ll take that as an “ignore” on the complaint… LOL Some people just gotta bitch about something.

    I see you hit “target” on your donation clock. Congrats. Glad to see it.

  151. BEA LEVER

    Blow me.

    First of all, TE is MY girlfriend. AP’s attempt at hitting that was meager, pathetic, and definitely not sponge-worthy.

    Secondly, all three gals in NYC gave me their private cell phone numbers when their husbands weren’t looking.

    So, again, blow me. You got nothin’.

  152. ” …. the comment that there was too much coconut in the blend” —– Maggie

    Tell those folks to go suck ass. “No coconut oil for you, one year!!”

    One of the wonderful aspects of coconut oil is that it has NO TASTE …. unlike Olive Oil which imparts its “nutty” flavor to foods. I just went to the cupboard, and tasted a full tablespoon of coconut oil. Yup …. NO taste whatsoever.

  153. As the owner of a small painting company for the last 25 yrs, I learned some pretty hard lessons. Thank God I learned most of the deal breakers in the first couple of yrs.
    Here are just a few I learned:
    Stay flexible.
    Keep your overhead low.
    Debt limits your options
    Exercise Humility.
    Exercise Patience.
    If you are not worried of failing, you are not paying attention.
    Being flush with cash means you need to be extra cautious, and pay closer attention. i’v managed to resist the easy money, and keep my business relatively debt free

    I’m Married, 51 yrs old, and we still don’t have any retirement savings to speak of. But we also don’t have any debt either. we own 2 homes outright , one is a small 5 acre hobby farm in a very desirable area of our state, . We don’t do vehicle payments, credit cards, or vacations, our vacations are spent at the farm. We live pretty conservatively. But that’s what is required in today’s world if you don’t want to be a slave. You have to adopt a personal preservation attitude.. while everybody else is driving around in new cars, we get around in 10 yr old vehicles, bought with cash. We buy our clothes at goodwill and other secondhand stores, we also grow a garden and raise chickens to supplement our grocery bill.
    On the plus side of all this frugality when appliances go out, we can replace them outright, when we needed new roofs on both houses, we payed cash for them. My wife wanted solid hardwood floors in the house, and we were able to pay for those outright. But we cant have it both ways and expect a positive outcome….we cant support ourselves, and carry debt at the same time. It’s just not worth the stress, and struggle.

  154. Back table wrote this and I am repeating it:

    “That’s the deal, so don’t enter it lightly and don’t treat procreation or the possibility of it like a game. I’m beyond fed up with the whining crap that comes out of peoples mouths over, “sacrificing my life away,” etc. Of course you are! Who the Hell isn’t? It goes with the landscape, pal. You signed on, you’re in for the duration, or at least as long as it takes to get your kids self-supporting and competent to enter the world. No one walks away from that.”

    A – freakin – men. Life with another functioning independent human being is hard some times. Deal with it – it’s no longer about you.


    Learn it breath it live it.

    Lots of couples splitting around us. It’s mostly woman issues. She is bored and lacking “romance” and eventually ends up with a new boyfriend who has a nice car and will by her a new set of tits. I’m blown away at what people will sacrifice for a new set of melons. Mind boggling. Humanity in the west has become shallow, narcissistic and unable to cope with reality. No wonder our countries are so screwed up politically and fiscally – they just mirror the ethos of the population as a whole.

  155. First, The main theme of this article is silly. No body bothers with savings accounts any more. With interest rates were they are almost everyone just uses checking accounts and mutual funds
    Second, the language used in many of the comments herein is disgraceful, and shows a level of stupidity that makes me fear for our country’s future.
    This will be my last comment on this site. I don’t want to be associated with such idiots.

    1. Chuck Griffiths

      Blow me. If you can’t distinguish between the concept of savings and a savings account, we don’t want you on this site.

      There sure are a lot of dumbasses in this world.

  156. Yeah, acetinker, take that. It ain’t the university of phoenix. Donald trump graduated from here. He’s gonna be our next president!

    1. starfcker after fucking with admin.

      Admin after slaying all the dumbasses, shitheads, pussies, and idiots on this thread.

  157. The only thing “silly” about this article is the fact we have to discuss this topic at all.

    In fact, I’ll pose a simple question wherein embedded lies the ludicrous answer: Why are Savings Accounts no longer a viable investment tool?

  158. Chuck

    wow you have managed to destroy the premise with the smite of your great sword of knowledge……

    What a childish comment.


    Chuck has left we can all come out and play again………………..

  159. Lipoh, are you aware that men in family court have fewer rights than a serf in pre-Magna Carta England? That’s human rights circa 1215 AD which have been stripped from the citizenry. No matter how ‘aware’ one might be, the reality is something that only sinks in once you’ve been there. You think the TSA, NSA, and all the other bureaucratic human rights abusers etc. are a problem? Family court was there long before any of them, gave them the model, showed them just what they can get away with.
    Stop trashing people for being black, husbands, small businessmen, etc. These are almost all good people who want to be allies in the fight for freedom, and who are not universal losers and whiners. Stop hating men who don’t make it to the 1% or who fuck up a little now and then.

  160. Call me lazy, call me a chauvinist. I don’t care. But when my junk needs licking, I’m no do it yourselfer. Around here, that’s womens work

  161. Star- I’ll bet you a Benjamin that you can’t hike your leg back behind your head while you are “Romancing the Stones” like Admin in the above photo.

    That alone tells me you are not even close to Admin’s level in the jungle. Give up while you can still save face.

  162. Hey “Administrator”,

    Over the years I have read your articles from time to time, and you have now sunk to join the ranks of so many others also observed, since about 2005, coming full-circle to embrace the Stockholm Syndrome: Blame the Loser. Never mind that this “conclusion” is roundly contradicted by your own prior evidence (Thank You!), namely: how Wall Street unjustly and illegally destroyed and continues to parasitize the USeconomy – both in terms of real production as well as wages.

    The fact is your current statistics about outcomes prove nothing about causality. Al Gore would be proud of your “logic”. If a losing position alone proves fault, then you could equally argue that Japan deserved to be atom-bombed, Dresden deserved to be carpet-bombed and the Slavs and Jews deserved to be gassed.

    Instead of speciously picking which personal anecdotes you do and don’t approve of, as representative (now with absolutely no statistics to back it up), why don’t you show us a plot Wall Street and CIty of London gains versus consumer losses in real weath? You will find a direct correlation – strong presumptive evidence for systematic theft, particularly when all the known criminality and gaming the system is factored in. You can start from the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Or from the “Too BIg To Fail” pronouncements from the President of the United States of America. (Or indeed, from anytime since the Trilaterall Commission’s declaration of the “crisis of too much democracy” in the West.) Consumers don’t just lose their money down some black hole, somewhere – that money GOES TO SOMEONE.

    Or would you sink yet further, to say Wall Street’s obscene concentration of wealth only proves the parasitic top 0.1% have been the more admirable, disciplined and natural winners of some (mythical) free market? Because, again, this is the (flip side of the) logic inherent in your present conclusion – and again, starkly at odds with your very own, prior reporting – as you now are delivering to Wall Street their favorite PR wet dream: the pitting of commoners against each other, neighbors blaming each other. And again, you are not the only one, but now a depressing encore of such blogs, seen repeatedly since circa the mid-‘oughties.

    And just look how much good they did.

    The self-proclaimed “Masters of the Universe”, their machinations self-described as “Doing God’s Work”, are no doubt gratified by your present role as useful idiot, in their service. And it doesn’t even take an idiot to realize that, if Americans do manage to save more, Wall Street will simply (continue to) increase their gaming of the system to cheat everyone out of those savings, as well.

    No, it is you who are the Pussy – having failed to see any effective change, since your first posts – now resorting in frustration (or worse), to beating your own peers for their collective problems.

    If you want to criticize entire populations, and generations, of Americans for fucking up – and have any hope of contributing anything positive – then beat on us for continuing to shrink from revolution (whose ultimate cost will only continue to rise), in the face of such outright economic warfare, as is being continually and increasingly waged against us.

    I therefore challenge you: what – all together, at the end of the day – is your aim? To educate and empower your readers? Or simply to show one and all how to boil, like an enraged frog – and meantime to hell with your neighbors, let The Devil take the Hindmost – from you “Burning Platform”?

    Time to Get Real or STFU.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  163. Just came in from checking on the new litter of piglets. Mmmmm bacon in just six months.

    As an aside to the general thrust of this piece, why is it that so many people on the Interwebs feel the need to tell you that they will not be coming back when they were never really here in the first place? Do they do this at department stores? “Your selection of casual wear is appalling, I will definitely NOT be returning to Aeropostale again. Good day, sir.”

    It’s odd.

    Hope everyone is having a swell afternoon.

  164. HSF… excellent point!

    “Hello, I am announcing my grand presence here and letting you all know that I have graced this blog with my attention span of a flea for several microseconds and have come to the conclusion that it is not worthy of my time. I shall not return!!!!”

  165. Matty – as a service I will attempt to gently pry you from your position before the angry Pit Bulls (namely Admin and llpoh) rip you a new and superfluous poop shoot.

    If yo have really been reading this site for years, you would know that Admin rages against the evils of Wall Street more than virtually anyone.

    The bigger issue of course, is that you–as a member of this victim, “poor me” culture–take Admin’s adamant stand on personal accountability and turn it into “blaming the loser.”

    As George Carlin once so succinctly pointed out: words matter….the way we say things matter. Calling this article and discussion “blaming the victims” is exactly how our rulers garner and grow their power. If we hold ourselves as victims, they can present themselves as saviors, and we are all damned. If we hold ourselves accountable, they become unnecessary and lose their power. The choice is really ours and so is the power. It is you and your type that gives it to them.

  166. @ starfkr

    Your last comment made me chuckle.

    +1 for having your big boy panties on. Or off… whichever the case may be at this moment 🙂

    To the newbies here. If you don’t have a thick skin you won’t last. Nobody is here to pat you on the back or reinforce your appeal for victim status because you got caught up in shit that seemed beyond your control. The key here is to look inward, address your faults, admit your mistakes and take responsibility for your lives good or bad.

    Anyone who was around in the early 80’s when interest rates hit 20% should know that when it comes to money, banking and things that seem too good to be true (like housing values going up year after year) that you should exercise caution. It’s not stockholm syndrom to take responsibility for yourself when you KNOW the system is a fraud. And its been that way for an awfully long time (2008 was really just one of a series of shit storms brought on by central planning and fraud).

    I have nothing to say to the guys who are going through divorce hell. Maybe stick to whores. They’re cheaper and there’s no commitment.

    @ Jim. Not going to disagree with anything you have to say here – LL wrote a good piece and he’s right. If you play the game without a bit of suspicion or caution knowing what you know about the world then you need your head checked. But you might catch more of the stragglers if you took more of a mentorship role than an ass kicking roll. Not that’s it your responsibility to do so if you choose not to but you have a lot of knowledge that would spread a lot more widely with less anger in response to the ‘victims’ posts here. What I’m delicately trying to tell you is your people skills suck. Other than that carry on brother.

    1. It’s not my job to mentor “victims”. I’m not changing my style for anyone. I present the data. I present my point of view. You can take it or leave it. It’s not my fucking problem.

      On any other site, those who criticized my point of view would be banned. Their comments would disappear. Not one person has been banned. Every comment is there to be seen. This site is designed to be a free for all.

      I don’t give a fuck about people skills. If people don’t want to hear the truth, hit the fucking road.

  167. Karalan

    250 posts into thread and we have figured out that it is all llpoh fault.

    Got it!

    I’m not part of 1% and I have fucked up a little bit now and then but I don’t think lloph hates me. And if he does

    so the fuck what…

    and yeah I’ve been to that court you speak of. Not pleasant but how is that anyone else’s fault other than mine. Took me ten years to get back on track.

    Why does this keep coming up in this thread. Holy shit I knew when I got married, the first time, the odds of it turning out. I did it anyways. You weren’t standing there with a gun to my head telling me I had to do it. That is the fucking problem with all these butt hurt trolls. We live in a free society. We can do whatever we want.

    I was 40 years old before I made 30 grand/year. Here I am ten years later making about 25 grand more per year. You know what I am doing now. I have a surplus of about 1000 dollars a month after expenses. What say I do with this. Well I’m paying off my mortgage and saving the rest.

    The point of this article is that the vast majority aren’t doing this. Rather they are drowning in debt. Hoping that if things go to shit someone else will buy them lunch. But I got news for all them they will be on the street holding a sign. Asking strangers to kick them in the balls for 20 bucks.

  168. Stucky’s Rule Of Asshole-ishness; the number of dumfuk assholes visiting TBP is directly proportional to the length of Admin’s original articles.

    Ya hit the JACKPOT with this thread, Jimbo.

    Hilarious amount of butt-hurt in this thread.

  169. If only more people would realize how empowering it is to be out of debt (or nearly so), and what a wonderful feeling you can get from watching your savings grow; they would realize that filling their lives with more, more, more just doesn’t compare. Yet, when I speak of these things to others, I am mostly met with glazed eyeballs.

    By living below our means, the hubs and I were able to pay off our mortgage and his student loans from Chiropractic school 15 years early. This helped take the pressure off when our health insurance premiums more than doubled under the ACA. It has also allowed me the luxury of being a stay-at-home mom- my son has autism, and me being available for him whenever he needs me is priceless. I can’t imagine the pressures we would have if we had the weight of debt upon us.

  170. Matty sure is a pompous long winded gas bag who clearly doesn’t read my articles. If he did read this blog on a daily basis, his bloviating bullshit would be obliterated.

    I love it when individuals can not separate personal instances of people living the right way from an avalanche of facts that PROVE the majority of people (I said majority – not all) have lived far above their means for decades.

    It’s douchebags like Marty the Marine who are so bitter and angry about how they fucked up their lives and need some bogeyman to blame, they NEVER take any personal responsibility for their plight.

    As I stated unequivocally in the article, Wall Street is bad, politicians are bad, big business is bad. Tough shit. That’s life you pussy. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

    Noooo. Marty will just rage against the machine and blame others for his woes.

    If you don’t like the truth Marty, hit the fucking road. We prefer commenters with IQs above 85.

  171. @ Jim.

    I knew you’d say that. And you’re mostly right.

    Anger’s hard on your blood pressure though. Don’t stroke out on us.

  172. Francis Marion

    My blood pressure has never been better. I love these threads. My purpose for this blog is to provoke and make people mad. It’s articles like this one that piss people off and bring out the hate. I love it.

    This thread is like every day back when Smokey was around in the 2011 – 2012 time frame.

    Most days are pretty boring on TBP. So the last two days have been refreshing and invigorating. I love thrashing dumbasses.

  173. I think I missed Marty’s post. There’s more than I care to read.

    But you do what you want. It’s your blog and your life. You’re a big boy too. I’m just sending the same message to you as the rest of the schleps around here. We reap what we sow. Some times the damage is financial – some times its something less evident and mathematical. You have a lot of information (wisdom?) to impart on the world. You owe it nothing of course but some times I figure what we do to others is a reflection of who we are and in turn what society is around us. If you want a just and civil society to live in then maybe the civil should start with you?

    1. Francis Marion

      I have a simple rule. I never treat a commentor badly unless their initial comment is not civil. If they make a derogatory comment to start, the gloves come off.

      I treat everyone with the respect they deserve.

      This is a libertarian anarchist blog. Civility is not going to help when the shit hits the fan. It’s overrated in my book.

  174. Wow, wow, wow. Is this place like the MOST special, different, awesome place EVAH’?!?

    Yes, I think it is.

    Thanks Bea for both the “lovely” comment and the shout out to AnarchoPagan. I concur, it was awesomely smooth. And your (AP’s) bend/comments have had me mostly intrigued too. There are not many of us – here – that see the “more worlds than these.” If we can’t meet on this plane/dimension, maybe the next, no?

    Ah Stuck, don’t be that way, your are my first, longest and best TBP love. If not for a really, really, messed up train schedule and incredibly high cost, I would have been there with you all in NY. I spent most of the preceding Wednesday night trying to figure out a way to get me there, and home, without upsetting the ole man. $400 and 30 hours of trains and I couldn’t do it without also finding a hotel room. So it goes…

    Oh Chuck, so sorry we offend your precious little sense of righteousness. I was just reading an excerpt of an upcoming book written by Carol Two Eagles, a lifestory that makes most of our whining about problems and fairness seem like walks on easy street. She is a non-denominational, non-secular (her words) NDN (Indian) whom said a couple things that resonated with me right down to my toes. 1. She is not a “Native American” as NONE of us here are “native” to this continent, we ALL came from elsewhere. She (again, her words) is not an American Indian as that was not the wording her ancestors used for our country. Turtle Island, is what I’m remembering her calling it. and 2. she admitted to the fact her language offends many. According to Carol we should just get over ourselves because “if God didn’t want us to use the language, he wouldn’t have given it to us.” I’ll bet she feels the same about tobacco and (some) drugs too. Anyway, so sorry to offend, I’m sure there is some scrubbed clean, politically and Religious sites you can go forth and get your knowledge from. Have a blast with the old “acceptable” trains of thought.

    As for all the whiners about divorce, YOU choose your fate mates. As did I. I walked away from two marriages, with one child and NO support. The first marriage I got $1100 in our asset split and no child support. He got everything else, including a nearly paid for home, two cars, a harley, etc., and my lawyer cost me more to tell me I was screwed than the measly $1100. SO WHAT. I chose him and his consequences. But my sanity, and the mental health of my son, was worth more than anything he could have “given” me. My second? Less than half the assets I bought (all his money was going to things like his car payment and his IRS and State tax debt), AND the loss of the over $50,000 cash I had paid to keep the IRS off his ass. So, by the time I was 32, I had been forced to start over, in the hole, three times, but left with (most of) my sanity. It’s only money, I can always earn more.

    As for the comment that those proclaiming “personal responsibility” MUST be from “privileged” backgrounds, what CRAP! As many others here have attested to, many of us were NOT born with families with money, we still figured out where the buck actually stops.

    Would I be further ahead financially had I aborted, or given away, my son? Maybe, maybe not. Would I be further ahead had I stayed in an abusive marriage? No way in hell. One of us would be dead, the other in prison, I’d say that no amount of money would overcome those real costs.

    Currently I have traded my ability to make scratch for my daughter. Swallowing so much shit from this man that I picked, that there are days I swear my eyes have turned brown and I’m going to explode. So it goes. Not only are there worlds other than these, there are more important things in this one than the peace that I will eventually return to. The #1 most important thing is my daughter. I’ve been allowing my plate to be filled and my being stuffed to the gills with shit, for her, and her alone. The ONLY reason I don’t run like my hair is on fire is that I made a vow to myself that I would NEVER bring another child into this world if I were in the position like I was with my first one. TWENTY TWO years between the two, and I really thought I had the “good” guy I was always told I “deserved.” Well, if wishes were fishes, we would all cast nets.

    PJ has always tickled me with her “don’t have kids.” She is right, and wrong. Yes, many of us find ourselves poor through reproduction (though, be honest, many ‘Murkins are living the good life precisely because they were good at sex, well, good life for now). But I believe there is more to life than the “right” neighborhood, or the “right” bank account/savings, or the “right” any material thing. That is what is so great about our time on this planet, there are NO “right” ways as long as you are not intentionally harming others.

    I’ve been asked, many times, if I could go back and “do it again,” if I would change things, not get knocked at 15, not get married, not whatever. And I have thought about it long and hard. I would not. If going back meant not having my kids, or changing them, it would not be worth any of the horrors that I could have avoided. I’m really Karmic that way.

    Lately it has been occurring to me that some force, somewhere, while appearing to give me the shaft, really had my back.

    There is NO doubt in my mind that had I not had my son I would have ended up working for some evil corporation like the Federales, or Goldman Sachs or GE. I’m cute (or was), I’m really book-smart/test positive and I have the heart of a salesman/communicator.

    Had I not “ruined my life” by having a child as young as I did, or had I not chose to hang with the druggies and dropouts, I would BE the evil we rail against here. And I would think all you plebes were nothing but sour grape growers and throwers.

    Had I not believed the bullshit my now hub spread, I would not have been blessed with my daughter and again, I probably would have taken my innate and learned talents to run forth and loudly “protest” the system. Thus gaining me a big ole bullseye and in light of what went down with OWS, Manning, Greenwald and Snowden, maybe even a one way ticket to dead or exile.

    Funny how the world works in hindsight.

    I believe we are ALL exactly where we are “supposed” to be and exactly WHO we are supposed to be.

    Admin is great, maybe even one of the best, of breaking through the propaganda and showing us the myriad ways we have been screwed over by those that wish to control us.

    That in no way means I agree with everything he says, thinks or writes about. Instead of getting all butthurt and taking my toys and running away, I’ve decided that sticking around to LEARN more, throwing my ass into the fray sometimes, is more than worth the meager bits I give back to his cause.

    People that eat a bad steak and then swear off beef have always amused the hell out of me. What short-sighted, narrow-minded, inconsequential existences they must lead.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled whine/shitfest. What a hoot! And, way to go Admin, I see you have crossed over to the coconut oil darkside. Yeah Avalon!

  175. A comment mentioned cutting the cellphone bill by going premodern, but I found a trick for free “cellphone” use.

    1). There are VOIP apps like Talkatone that provide you with a phone number and the ability to make and recieve calls. Incoming are free, outgoing are $0.99 per hour prepaid.

    2). I bought a refurbished ipod touch ($150) and installed the XFINITY hotspot profile of a friend, since companies like Comcast provide free automatic access to hotspots w/ the customer email and password. As a practical matter, the ipod touch is a free “cellphone” whenever it is in hotspot range (a network which is rapidly growing).

    I was able to save the gold and silver I mentioned in a previous comment because I have a zealous devotion to cutting fixed monthly expenses.

  176. As John Stryker USMC said, “Life is hard, but it is a lot harder when your stupid.”

    “The Paradox of Risk” by Charles Hugh Smith–” “…Limiting Risk Actually Increases Risk…”

    With all the social safety nets, think welfare, where risk is moderated in a progressive socialist society, where foolish risky behavior is prevented from experiencing its logical outcome, people take on more risk. Of course, consistent with previous outcomes, they want to be indemnified if things go awry. The Banksters are a perfect example. So, our fearless leaders in CONgress provide the rhetoric and superficial programs for the ‘unwashed many’ lulling them into thinking all is well, all the while, taking care of the really important welfare recipients, the corporations and the 1%.

    The CONgress can’t steal enough money to indemnify the 99% and have wisely chosen the source of their ‘bread and butter’. So, it all fails when the demand from the 99% becomes too great. We are at that point, now.

    Progressive Socialism enriches the 1%, Free Marketism (Capitalism) enriches the 99%, the middle class. It is worth noting that Free Marketism isn’t really Capitalism. Capitalism was a term coined by Karl Marx and used by the Progressives to mitigate and obscure the clarity of the concept of ‘Free Marketism’.

    So, why is Socialism embraced by so many? It is embraced by the 1% because they make out like Bandits, stealing the productive efforts of generations of people. The 99% embrace it because it plays to a fatal flaw in humanity, the idea of something for nothing. In reality, it’s stealing from your neighbor.

    The history of Mankind, it seems, is one of conquer and plunder. Not one of co-operative productive effort that enriches all.

    I’m still awaiting the time when ‘swords will be beaten into plowshares’.

  177. My .02, 45 self employed, pulled down $170k last yr, wife doesn’t work, 1 kid, have made 6 figures for almost 10 yrs. Have no debt. None, zero, zip nada. PM’s, cash, paid off vehicles, home, little amount in the checking account just to pay bills.

    Read the millionaire next door yrs ago, maybe 4-5 times, have always been an ant, like to party like a grasshopper but knew that was foolish and of little value. We live off of 40k and “bank” the rest, some is out of the country so in case we need to bug out. Businesses appraised at $500 +k, am in the process of trying to sell before the tsunami, had 2 fish in here this morning, nice guys, they have no clue.

    If I can’t sell before then, I figure business will eventually collapse, the “value” will be gone but I should be ok. I worry about the general public and about my family. I pray a lot, I seek Gods guidance and hope I can reach others before it’s too late. I feel like the fallout will be worse than any of us can imagine.

    Good luck to everyone.

    1. thejerkstore

      Can you talk to Marty? He is sure others are to blame for his plight. Love your name. Did you call?

  178. Francis Marion

    I respect your opinion. Let me know where you don’t agree. I think I know already, but let me have it.

  179. @ Jim,


    No way buddy. You don’t get to own my time and energy that easily!!! if you think you know then you do.

    Have fun today.


  180. Administrator,

    Your defensive and mentally-challenged (not to mention abusive) response is worthy of any 8-year-old.

    And, for a start, you are wrong on virtually every one of your assumptions about me. Virtually. Every. One. Not least your assumption that I must be a Marine – just because I happen to know (and understand the meaning of) “Semper Fi”.

    My motivation (not “rage”) to Overthrow the The Machine is not even close to the “reasons” you pluck so readily from out of your ass. They are instead some very well-known and laudable ones, steeped in our history and (particularly American) heritage, and I will not further elaborate on them here – because my personal situation is none of your goddamned business, Fuck You Very Much.

    Which brings us to the relevant issue of your fundamental dishonesty, in resorting to Ad Hominem in the first place – trying (and failing miserably) to attack the person, when you can’t (think your way out of a paper bag to) defend your point. (Reader’s note: simply screaming “avalanche of facts that PROVE” your point does not qualify.) DipShit.

    Years ago, I wondered what you would ultimately do with all your angry blogging – and now we can see:

    Jack shit.

    So, “read this blog on a daily basis”, and “take (me) under (your) wing” – what are you Fucking Kidding me??! How about you just stop Talking Shit – I’d be satisfied with that!

    And my name is “Matty”, not “Marty”. Get it right, JackAss.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty (living quite well) in Florida

    1. Did Marty the shithead drop another turd on TBP.

      You have a knack for bloviating without saying one fucking thing worth reading.

      I wonder why you come to a knife fight with your dick in your hand.

      You see Marty, while you wallow in pity for yourself, I walk the talk. You seem quite defensive about your personal situation. You must have really fucked up big time. Right Marty the troll?

      Marty – you are going to be late for the early bird special at the old folks diner.

      Just to let you know what a failure I’ve become with my angry blogging, this site gets 6.5 million visitors per year. This particular article got over 50,000 reads on Zero Hedge and is currently going viral on a myriad of other websites.

      Is your name Marty or Shithead? I get so confused.

  181. Stucky said:
    Secondly, all three gals in NYC gave me their private cell phone numbers when their husbands weren’t looking. ”

    Does anyone else see the irony of Stucky trying to romance the ladies in NYC while some dude was trying to romance HIS lady back home?


  182. Matty Marty in FL

    Trying to sound all smart and sophisticated and reasonable … like your shit doesn’t stink. Except, it DOES. I can smell it all the way here in NJ.

    I know what’s going on. We ALL know what’s going on. You just BUTT-HURT. A little fag-boy whining for attention. Here, take one of these;


  183. Karalan – I know your ass is burning due to your ex bending you over and using her 18″ black self-satisfier on you in family court. Sucks to be you.

    This thread s not about the ills of family court. You want a thread on that, write an article, and I am reasonably sure Admin will post it.

    This here thread is about dipshits who marry bimbos, get butt-raped in family court, and then scream that none of it was their fault.

    Sound like anyone you know, karalan? Anyone at all?

    You sought out the bitch, you wooed her, you took her down the aisle, and YOU chose poorly, or were unable to make it work.

    No one else did that shit. YOU did that your own self.

    Your mistake, your fuck-up, your bad decision, and no one else’s. You paid your money and took your chances. And it was snake-eyes. You were responsible, and no one else. Sure, family court sucks. People need to stay out of that place. You did not. Oops.

    You want me to feel sorry for you? OK, I feel real bad for you. Poor guy. Really wish things went better for you. Feel better now?

    But next time, make a fucking better choice. Or just pay for some A grade, and do not get married again if your pecker does your thinking for you.

  184. Well Monty you really don’t him.

    You complain complain about ad hominem attacks then proceed to launch one of your own. As Bugs Bunny would say…….

    What a maroon!

    Fuck man you’re awesome!

  185. Matty – that was truly pathetic. Really. Your real name is Matilda, right? I mean, it takes a series case of PMS to generate a whine that high pitched. Am I right?

    By the way, using “semper fi” but not being a marine is a tad pretentious, don’t you think?

    1. Marty goes into a spit spewing tirade when he sees this sign and realizes he hasn’t saved a fucking dime his whole life.

  186. Hey Stuck – you are the TabP counter. How many newbies have we run off so far on this thread. I scalped that pinhead clegg (called me uninteresting, and then did not like my response. Go figure).

    Admin has chased several. Just curious as to how many have scarpered off. I think karalan may vamoose next.

  187. Admin – I bet there are thousands of casual dropper-by that are reading this as their first exposure to TBP. They must think they have stumbled into the bowels of hell.

  188. Llpoh

    I only do counting when it involves regulars on TBP. These pussified little faggot boys, like Marty, who bail out at the drop of a hat … well, they ain’t worth my fuckin’ time to count.

    BTW, I really enjoyed your response on my thread (about hypocrisy). You a funny guy.

  189. Matty/Marty Mudfuck professes to having read TBP for years and knew that admins angry blog would amount to nothing. (well isn’t that special)

    It takes a special kind of AssClown to spend years visiting a blog he doesn’t like. Move over bb, you’re about to share your village idiot crown with an even bigger (ubelieveable, I know) idiot than yourself!

  190. @Quinn,
    When are you going to stop vomiting and simply demonstrate how lack of consumer savings – or, was it too much consumer debt – is the cause of falling real wages and no fucking jobs: i.e., WHERE THE MONEY comes from, in the first place?

    Is that being a “troll” – to expect you to have a valid explanation for relationship?

    And this is a Top 10-Percenter talking to you. JackAss.

    Who now offers the following, little common-sense correlation, for your readers:

    If the productive economy continues in downward spiral, with Wall Street ever-more exploitative, government ever-more corrupt, justice increasingly subverted, etc., etc. – while at the same time, some blog addressing these issues rises in popularity to “6.5 million visitors per year”, with “over 50,000 reads on Zero Hedge (a gaggle of Truly Flaming JerkOffs, making my point right there)” – if these trends are all happening simultaneously, does it then appear more likely or less likely that said JackAss Blog has been offering any Solution – or, might it rather perhaps be Part of The Problem?

    You have no basis for bragging about “success” with your contributions into this escalating mess, and really should reconsider just whose side you have been Aiding and Comforting. Unless of course, you are already well aware of (maybe even compensated for) that.

    Call me a “troll”? Based on the tonnage of your verbal abuse and attempts to bait me, that accusation means nothing at all.

    Meanwhile, above I make a far better case that you could well be a Shill – certainly, in any case now you are performing the same function.

    I challenge you to prove otherwise.

    Semper Fi,
    – Matty in FL

    1. I seem to have gotten Marty’s goat. Again, I wasted 2 minutes of my life reading his utter nonsense. Does your pea brain just jumble your thoughts that badly or are your really as stupid as your comments sound? I swear to God you have written twenty paragraphs and said absolutely nothing.

      Marty you are free to hit the fucking road at any time if you fail to understand the message of this blog. You’ve got it all figured out and will surely lead the revolution. Once you cure that bad case of verbal diarrhea and take the proper dose of lithium, I’m sure things will work out real swell for you.

      I challenge you to prove to all the fine folks of TBP that you really don’t have a sub 85 IQ. I think it’s gonna be a real tough task.

  191. Marty, if this so bad, perhaps you could point us to another website where civility reigns in the way you deem appropriate, and you can post wildly divergent opinions and not get your legs cut out from under you by some anonymous gink moderator? Doesn’t exist. So this is the best we’ve got. And it’s pretty darn good.

  192. Jim’s data points don’t exist in a vacuum. No information does. Doesn’t render them meaningless. Just something else to ponder. But the worst part of your critique, marty, is dismissing jim’s accomplishments as an author. In a country of 300 million people, a Regular dude, leading a regular life, has managed to be heard. To make something out of nothing. Let me know when you pull that one off.

  193. @ Munty

    Well I know Jim can look after himself but I can’t help but have a go at you. Besides you are lumping us all in as a gaggle. We are crows, as in a murder of crows. You sir are just butt hurt because we don’t bow down before your Yoda-like wisdom.

    I’ll never a be rich man in terms of money. I am going to plod along with my middle class life. Here’s the deal.

    There are millions of people who live beyond their means. Math is hard for people like you. You claim to be in top 10% yet write like a low IQ retard. And yes that isn’t PC. I don’t care as soon as someone stands up and says my wallet is bigger than your wallet my douchebag-o-meter goes to 11.

    You say you come to site on regular basis. I don’t believe you. If you did you would know that Admin rails against all sorts of injustice financial and otherwise.

    Most of the time is is easy to post on this blog because we are talking about latest bailout of TBTF banks or government fuck-up. We can project our deficiencies in our own lives onto whatever topic is at hand. As soon as Jim writes something that requires us to look inward at what we are doing with our lives people like you come aboard. You stomp around a bit say nothing that really adds anything to debate then storm off like you are still in grade school.

    I don’t understand what you are getting at. Yes Jon Corzine belongs in jail. Yes Jamie Dimon is a waste of Oxygen. Yes wages are falling. So basically what you are saying goes something like this.

    The world is fucked up. The top 1% are fucking over everyone else but I’ll show them by going out and buying something I can’t afford while talking on my overpriced I-phone, waiting with baited breath for the next I-con, sipping Starbucks and driving car you can’t afford to a house that is to big.

    Well shit that is what we as a society have been doing for last 40 years. Perpetual debt is what keeps us enslaved.

    So your solution is to whine and complain. Some solution.

    We can either decide to break free of consumerism or continue to do what you suggest.

    I am going to break free.

    Semper that

    rob in Nova Scoita

  194. Jim may be bombastic at times, but he has a humble side. What kind of man, after suffering a few halfhearted jabs from me, is smart enough to retreat, and willing to post a picture of himself licking his own nuts in contrition? I don’t possess that kind of humility (thank god)

  195. Aha! Finally, I was trying to figure out who the Fuck Marty was and then realized that Admin was punning on Mattiepants down in Florida who has come here to enlighten all us STMs on TBP about how much smarter he is than the rest of us.

    Thank goodness. I thought I had missed something worth reading.

  196. @Copperhead:
    The Truth.

    Thomas Jefferson famously pledged “Eternal Hostility to all forms of Tyranny against the Mind of Man” (or words to that effect). It’s inscribed in the marble under the dome of his memorial. And I subscribe to it, as profoundly American. Eternally – Semper. Truthful – Fidelis.

    Nobody rewards me for this – except for all those who sweated, bled and died to Pay it Forward, to all of us, today. I am not going to presume to tell you some Right Way to live. I will, however, point out and advocate for any truth(s) – on any) blog (including this one, with which I have no prior beef) – if it appears capable of bringing anything(s) positive.

    Already I can see from the attentions evoked from both the Administrator (as well as the usual minion of sycophants, aka: Ass-Kissers) at my posts, that I have indeed hit on some nerve(s), somewhere. Thus leapfrogging – a very promising sign – right over the usual, “First they Ignore You” step, and going straight to the second, “Then they Ridicule You”, phase.

    Next should come the “Then they Fight You” step – however, all the verbal bullying, and purported joy at “ball kicking”, is disappointing. Because, Scratch a Bully you will find a Coward.

    But if (and I do hope) this proves not to be the case, then we can get down to the “Then You Win” stage – in which some REAL IDEAS are exchanged.

    Which interchange I cannot help but win – not the debate, but because, should anyone convince me of any BETTER solution to the current mess than revolution (note: NOT the same thing as civil war – even though a very real war is already long in progress aganst us), then I can assure you, I will be the first to admit and to shout it, from the rooftops.

    In Solidarity,

    – Matty in Florida

  197. munky

    Where do I begin there are so many strawmen in your last post.

    Fuck man lowIQ retard doesn’t really describe you. It’s also an oxymoron. Maybe that would be better to say oxygen deficient moron. Yeah I`m going with that.

    When I look at your circular logic my head spins.

    I shouldn’t really call you a douche. Douches are useful.

    Okay I’m going to try this one last time.

    Banks and Government wants to keep the underclass poor and in debt. I really don’t care what is happening on wall street at end of month when I am paying my bills. All I am concerned about is whether I have more money than I had when I started month.

    Too many people don’t do this. The charts Jim provided show this. You sir are the ass kisser. You go all Obamatard then talk about some nebulous Hope and change bullshit.

    You can start a revolution just not buying all the shit that is being sent from China.

    Get it through your thick skull

    But no you go for ad hominem attacks then stand back with pride when someone takes you on.

    I’m done with you, maybe some else would care to comment.

    You sir are proof once again of the old axiom

    Don’t argue with an idiot he will take you down to his level then beat you with experience

  198. I mean it. You assholes are just jealous. You don’t know shit. You just hate me because youse is all stupid. If youse was smart youse would be on my side. Fuck youse all.

  199. @uncomfortably numb my son autistic I live this every day
    @TE wow ive never seen you but your soul shines , I often think we all are angels with only one wing and we can only fly when we are joined , I mean nothing inappropriate by that , just that without others I think we are less than we can be? My code is god first then family then friends then work I have no time for anything else , altho im an idiot ( be well in all things you can be
    @ Matty in fla really ? a privately owned central bank is in control and you think that individuals are possibly in charge of their finances? When Mr. Yellen said that the US dollar was not a store of value ? Ya its my fault for not saving a currency that the privately owned central banks create out of thin air ? are you batshit stupid? Im a long time reader of various financial blogs including zerohedge and beyond the particular article the firstperson comments pertaining to individual circumstances are very valuable . Why would anyone save fiat currency when other options are available ? Let me guess ? You are also a proponent of ZIRP/NIRP and any other program to stimulate unending growth when we live in a finite world? I stop here tho if you learn some history about the privately owned central banks and I mean really learn the history then maybe you can have a leg to stand on wtf do I know? im just a fucking chef

  200. Matty the ignorant shithead defines fidelis as truthful. Gee, that is a new one on me. And here I always thought it meant faithful and loyal.

    Maybe Matty is defining it under the pig Latin, rather than the more common regular old Latin. That would seem appropriate.

  201. gm – what about me? Does my soul shine too? Why does TE get all the love (I know the answer to that – she is hot and lovable!), while I get none? I am lovable in my own kinda way, you know. Here is an actual picture of me. I am cute, and really am and old softy at heart:


  202. Mattie’s panties are in a wad because he was serious about trying to enlighten us here, you stupid Shit Throwing Monkeys. Mattie probably has a cool condo on the beach we could have had our next get together at…


  203. JQ,

    You ignore my challenges – two, so far – and lose credibility accordingly.

    As for your challenge to me: To what “fine folks of TBP” shall I prove my IQ – that aren’t already accusing me of trying to show off my IQ? The one calling me a Fag? Or the one calling me an Obamatard (at a site with disturbing indications of being PaulTard)? Or the one who wants to nitpick my use of “Fidelis”? (Who knows exactly what the fuck I mean, and can Go Fuck Himself.)

    Or would it perhaps be the Shit Throwing Monkey(s), absolutely correct in her assessment that she will not (as no STM ever will) be admitted into my cool beachfront condo?

    I hear and acknowlege your (repeated) invitation(s) to “hit the fucking road”, and respond: Fuck You, I’m not ready to. Meanwhile I’m pretty sure I “understand the message of this blog” – which is exactly why I attack the more bullshit part(s) of it. Namely, once again: you can’t blame consumers (and who TF set you up as their judge, anyway?) for losing a game stacked and rigged, from top-to-bottom, by Wall Street. Being stupid – not to mention mentally ill – is not a Crime. Exploiting that stupidity, and/or disability, in order to steal their fucking money IS. And we should implement Regime Change on those motherfuckers – on Wall Street and anywhere else – who have, and continue to do so.

    If you have “(read) twenty paragraphs and (still understood) absolutely nothing” I’ve said, then perhaps you should re-read, more carefully. Just like the one fine TBPer excoriating me for “think(ing) that individuals are possibly in charge of their finances” (YOUR very argument, Big Jim (LMAO))!

    I am sure I am every bit “as stupid as (my) comments sound”. I am equally sure that is nowhere near as retarded and juvenile as almost all the responses so far directed at me – including your own.

    No, you have not “gotten (my) goat”. You can Go Fuck A Goat (if that’s the way you want to play it) – but you haven’t gotten mine.

    Meanwhile, so far it is only Shit-Throwing Maggie who has come even remotely close to recognizing who I even am. (Too bad she has already blown any Chance of Getting into MattyPants…)

    Semper Fi,

    Matty in FL

  204. This was an informative article. I thought I was reckless with money. I used to maintain a savings account but learned over recent years that the pitiful interest earned did not equal official government inflation rates. I am unlucky because most of the stuff I have to buy inflates at a rate well above the official number. My savings are in a shoe box. At least no government can seize my savings account. I once purchased vehicles on credit and maintained credit card balances. For some reason I felt I had to show up in a nice ride. An adventure with nearly going broke changed me. All cars are paid for. If one follows the maintenance schedules almost any car will run indefinitely. I never buy anything with credit. I almost never eat at restaurants. This avoidance of restaurant foods allowed me to easily lose weight. Once in a while I have to visit restaurants with clients or friends and then I’m uncomfortably bloated for the next day. I make coffee in a thermos for pennies. These “sacrifices” have not been painful at all, just a little planning is necessary. Years ago I purchased several houses and most are now mortgage free. If not for these rentals I would have very little.

    If we all lived below our means the economy would tank. Much depends upon fools buying the new BMW or third big screen TV. Throughout history most people worked until they dropped dead. The era of union pensions and large investment accounts is only recent for most. One can manage to have a good life even lacking a significant estate. An eighty year old clearly can’t work eighty hours per week but he or she can work 25 hours if they can get to work. They can socialize on the job to some extent and still have leisure time.

    It is depressing to read about all the people who shun marriage and children. No one will show up at their funerals. When they are old they will be surrounded, and possibly harrrassed, by younger people from alien cultures. One of the joys of an older age is to see the kin folk growing up. I suppose the childless don’t really perceive what they are missing and suffer little.

  205. I was scrolling down to make sure Yertle the Turtle posted for Lysander and saw that I got a SHOUT OUT from MattiePants in his farewell address!

  206. JQ:

    Alright, I’m getting tired of trying to establish any intelligent dialogue, here – and I’ve made clear my original points about what (whopping) perspectives your piece welched on.

    Now I want to address some of the specific items you put in.

    I necessarily have to skip over a whole raft of unfair abuses (e.g., “Only immature children operate with no safety net”), blatant apologetics for the wealthy (e.g., “anyone who worked hard, saved, and planned for their future”) and straight out-of-the-ass bullshit (e.g., “Everyone has the ability to live beneath their means”), and skip to your crucial, and very late-to-appear, comment:

    “It’s almost as if a mental illness has befallen a majority of Americans.”

    Yes, it IS. EXACTLY like that. And what if Americans ARE, in fact the vast majority of them, mentally ill? After all, you also quote Huxley, that “The real hopeless victims of mental illness…appear to be most normal…they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms…Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness.”

    Well, if in fact all those people are actually ILL, then that would be pretty fucking cruel and abusive of you, to dump all that judgement and sneering on disabled people, wouldn’t it? You pretty much have to insert that “almost” – either that, or take out all the preceding judgements, and abuse – in order not to be just some Massive Prick, eh? One who is urging all those losers towards “perfect adjustment” into this society, at that.

    You then breezily assert that “The Deep State and their minions on Wall Street and the corporate media certainly attempt to mold and manipulate the minds of the masses, but at the end of the day people are free to disregard those messages and live meaningful lives on their own terms.” Izzat so?!! Again, you have to insert that word “attempt” in there, to complete such a sweeping statement.

    How indeed can you be so cock-sure that the Deep State, through the corporate media, wasn’t in fact highly – even wildly – successful at “…influencing society writ large…to affect the will, perception, and understanding of the (consumer, so that) Without senses, the (consumer) becomes impotent and entirely vulnerable”? Because that quote – save for the substitutions in parentheses – comes verbatim from the Deep State. Where it was written as a strategy for outright warfare (“Shock and Awe: Achieving Rapid Dominance”, 1996 by Harlan K. Ullman and James P. Wade, National Defense University Press), and particularly regarding the Millenials, timed perfectly so that “their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives”, just as Huxley described.

    It seems eminently more likely than not, that corporate finance, advertising, Hollywood, etc. – operating in concert over the long term and far more pervasively, if subtly – have been profoundly successful at essentially the same psychological warfare strategy as quoted, above. The supporting evidence for which is legion – in precisely the mass-delusion(s) and irrational behaviors, writ large across society, that you note.

    If indeed this is, as I believe, the case, then how much “freedom” does such a mentally-injured person – absent the slightest realization he is even sick, much less receiving any help – still actually have? Is a man with a sprained ankle still, “at the end of the day”, “free” to run a footrace? Do such “freedoms” have any meaning at all, in the real world, for someone who is in fact significantly injured?

    With that, let me also leave you with a correction: the Deep State does not have “their minions on Wall Street”. The Deep State IS Wall Street – whose minions include (by now) the entire corporate media, most of Hollywood, and the entire USGovernment.

    Until you are clear on that, you will never know who the enemy even is.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in Florida

  207. Marty, couple of things. What makes lionboy’s writing so compelling is that it makes you think. I reread JQ’s article and thread this morning, like I always do, and get his point. Looks to me like we are coming to a major turning point as a country. If I’m right, and I think I am, then JQ is right. I have argued on these pages, as have many, that there is a tremendous amount of debt destruction that needs to occur.

  208. @ Matty

    “If you want to criticize entire populations, and generations, of Americans for fucking up – and have any hope of contributing anything positive – then beat on us for continuing to shrink from revolution (whose ultimate cost will only continue to rise), in the face of such outright economic warfare, as is being continually and increasingly waged against us”

    A “revolution” for what, Matty? Freedom? From whom? The Powers That Be? Our Masters? Or ourselves and our lives endlessly ruled by the Diderot Effect? With education? With more laws? With force? How?

    Does this revolt you speak of involve the re-development of systems in its implementation? If so, who makes those decisions? What about free will? Does your revolt involve this?

    It’s easy to lash out at Admin for what you perceive to be his condescension of the masses, but it is you who hasn’t defined his case. If you’ve been here as long as you claim then you already know Mr. Quinn’s opinions.

    It is one thing to cast aspersions, and another to explain “how” you would “fix” what you perceive to be wrong. Until then you are simply railing, the same thing you accuse others of doing here.

    So let’s hear it, Matty.

    How is this “revolt” you speak of supposed to work?

  209. Others think all debts need to be paid (good’ay, mate). If we do turn the page as a nation, there are tremendous wrongs that have occurred that won’t be righted. I get it, jim. Sightseer, so sorry. But we have to move forward, not keep reliving the past. Jim may seem like a relic from the past, but if we go back to a hard money economy, those skillsets will be critical again. Another group is about to see their world upended

  210. There isn’t going to be a revolution, at least not the kind marty wants. The revolution will simply be a rejection of the crony corporatist/neocon agenda. I’ve said it many times, get ready to work. It’s going to matter again. Time to rethink that 80 cases of .222 you have in the closet

  211. “If you want to criticize entire populations, and generations, of Americans for fucking up – and have any hope of contributing anything positive – then beat on us for continuing to shrink from revolution (whose ultimate cost will only continue to rise), in the face of such outright economic warfare, as is being continually and increasingly waged against us”

    I sincerely doubt there will be a revolution. Capitulation maybe, but not revolution. Besides you can’t compel someone to fight for their freedom, liberty and heritage. They have to recognize it’s value and then decide if it’s worth fighting for. The Magic 8 Ball says the outlook is not good. Admin continually provides an enormous amount data that lost sheep can use to see the light and make that decision for themselves. In your case, it’s worth exactly what you paid for it. For many more, it was exactly the wake up call they needed.

    Either shut your cockholster** for a while and pay attention or move the fuck on. Admin owes you no explanation or dialogue. It is good to see him kicking everyone in the fuck though!

    **Thanks Billy!

  212. Normally, I do not seek read Mattypants in his entirety, but I was hoping for another shoutout.

    Since I read it, I have to say one thing… I understand his mindset. It is the same as the union dweebs we left behind who are destroying what is left of integrity in the work ethic of retired military types from twenty years ago. It is the “everybody’s doing it so I might as well get mine” attitude that I’ve had to force my 21 year old son to avoid and ignore at all costs.

    Matty, they have NOT been successful. They may have tried and they may have had the tools, but they didn’t have the moral authority to control everyone’s mind to the degree you suggest.

    TBP is a place where individual opinion is welcome. You state it and if someone wants to debate it, they do so. You either counterpoint or not… BUT, you do not wholesale announce to someone that they are completely and totally wrong and here’s why:

    Is too bad… I have a feeling if you had introduced yourself in another way without the patronizing tone, you might have been fun to have around here.

    Of course, I still get shit tossed at me, so who am I to talk.

  213. John ellis, had to look up diderot effect, interesting. Marty uses victim a lot, reminds me of bammy using the word grievance. I don’t want a president with that word in their vocabulary. Six in the morning and this one is off and running again. Amazing

  214. My brother is same age as Bubbles from Trailer Park Boys. Played on same hockey team as him growing up. He really is a nice guy when you talk to him.

    As for Matty…………

    I’m picturing this Condo in Fla being in a place called Sunnyvale…

  215. @ starfcker

    I gave you a thumbs up on your ammo post. 2 Corrections though. First it’s 223 not 222. Second – only an optimist has 80 cases. TBP is not for optimists.

    @ Matty AKA Marty (You got me there Jim)

    You are right about what you type in some sense. The problem is you tend to see these great unwashed masses as victims. They are not victims – they have the same faculty for reason and clarity as the rest of us. “Mental Illness” is in this sense a misnomer. The vast majority of people are not mentally ill – they are willfully ignorant (they suffer from cognitive dissonance). Far too many are willing to become violent in their defence of their dissonance. This is not illness but a result of decadence and narcissism. The lack of sympathy for said dumb asses that you find here is largely because most of us here have come from the same place, experienced the discomfort financially and emotionally of waking up and have donned what has come to be known here as our “big boy panties” in order to deal with it. If you have come here then we expect no less of you.

    The world is a shit hole socially and politically. Revolutions of the type often spoken about in the ‘liberty movement’ have but one effect – they will make things worse. Do you really think that while you are busy kicking banker, government and crony ass that those great unwashed masses will thank you for it? Do you think they will be pleased when their social security, EBT or other form of welfare is no longer available? Will there lives be more miserable or less? Will you be a hero or a tyrant in their eyes? How many lives are you willing to sacrifice for the ‘revolution’? Do you want to be held responsible for the next great crisis?

    Now ask – which is more cruel? A lack of sympathy for their ignorance (as displayed here) or a shot fired without a thought for the consequences? It is better to wake people up and give them the tools mentally and physically to endure than it is to ‘try and save them’ through other means.

    Matty writes:

    “Until you are clear on that, you will never know who the enemy even is.”

    We have seen the enemy. The enemy is sloth, greed, hubris and a willingness to defend it at all costs. And it is not specific to one strata of society. It permeates every single layer. It exists because we have supported it – because our neighbours continue to support it and because everyone feels that they benefit from it. But vice is not virtue and the condition of our world shows us this is true.

    The only solution to the problem at this stage is for people to wake up. One dumb ass at a time. TBP for all its ranting, raging and lack of diplomacy is extremely effective in doing just that. I attribute it to a lack of censorship. Though my very humble opinion is that some could stand to tone it down you can never accuse them of failing to get their points across. That being said are you – a member of the top 10% – awake yet?

  216. Headline over on Drudge right now (seriously):

    “Monkeys with smaller testicles roar loudest…”

    It’s both on topic and off topic at the same time!

  217. @Maggie,

    It’s hardly “moral authority” that they use to destroy, not “control”, the mind. Read the REST of the earlier, Deep State quote – the parts I deleted:
    “…massively destructive strikes directly at the public will…to impose a regime of shock and awe through delivery of instant, nearly incomprehensible, levels of massive destruction…Through very selective, utterly brutal and ruthless and rapid application of force…”
    Again, the above described actual military warfighting, and not economic warfare, which would have to substitute “pervasive” and “relentless”, over a far longer period, for the above, “instant” and “rapid” – but, I contend the net effect was much the same.

    After which, with the mind destroyed, control becomes trivially easy – just like herding sheep: all you need is one, Mean Dog. Hillary Clinton immediately coming to mind, as the current candidate. But of course, like any bully Hillary is actually just a Pussie. (Mmmm….Pussie…(LOL)!)

    I’ll stop here, to keep this one brief. We can talk more later – as Quinn, Qing Qrotch-Qicker is (to his Great Qredit) clearly signalling that he won’t kick me off.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  218. @John Ellis,

    You (I think it was you, as “Anonymous”) peppered me with 15 questions (I counted), which is a hallmark of not having sufficiently collected your thoughts – either that, or of not caring about the answers to any of them.

    In both cases I would give you a bit more time to think about exactly what you want me to answer (preferrably a single, key question), at least to start with.

    Meantime, anticipating your interest, let me leave you with this, recommended reading on the Deep State:

    And I’ll see you on the other side.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  219. TE, if I made you smile or brightened your day a little, well, that makes me happy, and is also very flattering 🙂 I have the highest respect for you for getting out of your previous two marriages with what is far more precious than any material assets, your two little ones, and for enduring the current bullshit for your daughter’s sake. Sounds trite to say it, but I do think there is wisdom in that Zen saying, “The obstacle is the path.”

    As for poor little Maddy, it does absolutely no good for those caught in that trap, whining about how they were kicked around by the Big Boys. I’m sure you know that we weren’t the first generation ever to be screwed, in fact our “hardships” are only in comparison to a might-have-been that wasn’t; with a few exceptions like llpoh, most of us here have never known real poverty. So even if you have done OK for yourself, many people of our generation need to just suck it up and make the best of the situation in the world as it is.

  220. No Matty, I simply threw out some questions as to exactly what you meant by “revolt” as you haven’t said anywhere exactly “how” you see this unfolding?

    I’m very familiar with the Deep State. Tell us how your vision of how it would be fixed?

    Admin: I’m not attempting to feed a troll…I’d just like clarification on his part on what he proposes is the solution, precisely “what” he believes will solve the problem?

    Look again, Matty, it’s a simple question: Tell us “how” this revolt you speak of supposed to work?

  221. Jim, come on. Now you post a monkey and a finish the sentence? One own goal per thread is still too many. Respectfully, I’ll chill.

  222. Oh, I understand now – sorry about that.

    Well, to start with, you could shove your nose yet further up the site Admin’s butt-hole – until your whole head is in there, and drizzly shit runs down your neck.

    That would certainly qualify as Revolting! (LOL)

    But, seriously: Go Fuck Yourself, you Little DipShit.

    Sincere questions only need apply.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  223. Matty with his prose proves the title of this article is true


    With his train of thought


    That he is smarter than the average bear


    That worrying about the deep state is going to balance the cheque book at end of month.

    Keep typing Marty. You are in a hole you might as well keep digging.

  224. I didn’t realize you shaved so extensively admin. Didn’t realize you were that ripped either! Avalon chose well! 🙂

  225. @MartyMudfuck, like I said above…..what YOU get from this site is exactly equal to what you paid for it.

    Stop being yet another skid mark in the collective underwear of society. You apparently have it all figured out so start your own fucking blog to enlighten the masses and spark your revolution if you truly believe it will work.

    Keep in mind that you’ll be trying to recruit morons who buy Starbucks on a 26% APR credit card and that they might not show up to the revolution because they can’t afford a coupe gallons of gas or they had their license suspended for driving without insurance they couldn’t afford. You won’t be able to reach them on the $700 iPhone either because after the Starbucks and delinquent credit card payments/penalties, their cell service will be turned off for non-payment.


  226. One of the hated boomers chimes in after reading as much of the above as I could stand.

    Pushing 70, living outside the USA, own everything I have outright, no debt, have always lived beneath my means, now live on interest from the interest, live on less than the Socsec granny with her $1650 or whatever it was, grow much of my own food, took a long time to get to this point but did so by SAVING and LIVING BENEATH MY MEANS!! Got skinned after first marriage, live and learn, the kids from that one are doing well, have largely learned to SAVE and delay gratification within reason… Those were the only kids I had, but my life would be far less satisfying had I had none.

    Have owned my time since I was 52 thanks to good fortune and prudence. As far as I’m concerned, it comes down to choices with some luck, because no one is omniscient and bad luck can’t be excluded.

    Best of luck to ne and all!

  227. Remember Three Billy Goats Gruff… my son wondered why the troll waits for the big tough Poppa Goat to come kick him out of the county every single time.

    Is because he is a stupid troll, right?

  228. Sorry for the double post… the first one wasn’t there and then it was. Of course, it could be the Smirnoff and Greens.

  229. Due to the thin skin, over-inflated sense of intellect, squawking defense of the clueless Lumpen, and inability to be distinguished as male or female, you’re obviously a Trans-vegan, Asperberger-suffering, four-dimensional, poly-gender.

    But that’s too specific. No, you’re just a troll, more specifically, a Major asshole. But hey, don’t take it too hard, Matty…because we all know you’re not a “real” Major.

    And yes, any moment now the little man in you will start shaking like a little girl, as you pound away on your keyboard in self-righteous indignation, letting fly with all manner of vitriolic cursing, name-calling and “so there’s!” God, man, you’re tedious and pedantic to a fault.

    After all your ranting, it’s glaringly apparent you’re boring and no doubt you MUST have the last say, so please, grace us one last time with your superior intellect from your beachfront condo, just for old time’s sake, and then do us all a huge favor and find another site to waste other’s time in…or better yet, just head out onto your beach and pound sound.

  230. I agree with Matty Admin.

    Your writing is great but your treatment of others on this blog does not match the well written prose.

    Perhaps you have forgotten who you were and are supposed to be.



    Matty in FL says:

    Hey “Administrator”,

    Over the years I have read your articles from time to time, and you have now sunk to join the ranks of so many others also observed, since about 2005, coming full-circle to embrace the Stockholm Syndrome: Blame the Loser. Never mind that this “conclusion” is roundly contradicted by your own prior evidence (Thank You!), namely: how Wall Street unjustly and illegally destroyed and continues to parasitize the USeconomy – both in terms of real production as well as wages.

    The fact is your current statistics about outcomes prove nothing about causality. Al Gore would be proud of your “logic”. If a losing position alone proves fault, then you could equally argue that Japan deserved to be atom-bombed, Dresden deserved to be carpet-bombed and the Slavs and Jews deserved to be gassed.

    Instead of speciously picking which personal anecdotes you do and don’t approve of, as representative (now with absolutely no statistics to back it up), why don’t you show us a plot Wall Street and CIty of London gains versus consumer losses in real weath? You will find a direct correlation – strong presumptive evidence for systematic theft, particularly when all the known criminality and gaming the system is factored in. You can start from the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Or from the “Too BIg To Fail” pronouncements from the President of the United States of America. (Or indeed, from anytime since the Trilaterall Commission’s declaration of the “crisis of too much democracy” in the West.) Consumers don’t just lose their money down some black hole, somewhere – that money GOES TO SOMEONE.

    Or would you sink yet further, to say Wall Street’s obscene concentration of wealth only proves the parasitic top 0.1% have been the more admirable, disciplined and natural winners of some (mythical) free market? Because, again, this is the (flip side of the) logic inherent in your present conclusion – and again, starkly at odds with your very own, prior reporting – as you now are delivering to Wall Street their favorite PR wet dream: the pitting of commoners against each other, neighbors blaming each other. And again, you are not the only one, but now a depressing encore of such blogs, seen repeatedly since circa the mid-‘oughties.

    And just look how much good they did.

    The self-proclaimed “Masters of the Universe”, their machinations self-described as “Doing God’s Work”, are no doubt gratified by your present role as useful idiot, in their service. And it doesn’t even take an idiot to realize that, if Americans do manage to save more, Wall Street will simply (continue to) increase their gaming of the system to cheat everyone out of those savings, as well.

    No, it is you who are the Pussy – having failed to see any effective change, since your first posts – now resorting in frustration (or worse), to beating your own peers for their collective problems.

    If you want to criticize entire populations, and generations, of Americans for fucking up – and have any hope of contributing anything positive – then beat on us for continuing to shrink from revolution (whose ultimate cost will only continue to rise), in the face of such outright economic warfare, as is being continually and increasingly waged against us.

    I therefore challenge you: what – all together, at the end of the day – is your aim? To educate and empower your readers? Or simply to show one and all how to boil, like an enraged frog – and meantime to hell with your neighbors, let The Devil take the Hindmost – from you “Burning Platform”?

    Time to Get Real or STFU.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  231. Here’s a little sermon on money, which I think relates to the macro picture.

    Money goes “poof” when debt is repaid or defaulted upon. This is deflation because in the world economy, debt IS money, or more accurately, debt is treated precisely as though it were money. This is a fallacy. Debt is a promise about futures and money is supposed to be “now”. Below Ilargi points out that everything and everyone is over-indebted. He’s right. The evidence is before our very eyes daily as the guy in front of us at Wendy’s “pays for” his meal with a credit card, that is, with a promise.

    “Everything and everyone is over-indebted … a million [stats] point to the beginning of a deleveraging of that debt, something that curiously enough hasn’t happened at all since the 2007/8 crisis. On the contrary, a massive amount of additional debt has been added to a global system already drowning in it. China alone added $20-15 trillion, and that kept up appearances.”


    “The only way a system that looks like this could be kept running is by issuing more debt. But even that couldn’t keep it going forever.”

    Everything’s Deflating And Nobody Seems To Notice Automatic Earth 10/22/2015 http://www.theautomaticearth.com/2015/10/everythings-deflating-and-nobody-seems-to-notice/

    The commodities crash and China’s bust are among the macro evidence that we have begun a massive deleveraging which will wash over the world and be amplified as debt becomes increasingly unpayable. There will be massive paper losses, which become real as they are experienced by hedge funds, insurance companies, pension funds, commercial enterprises and individuals. The “crash” has begun and it will play out.

    We are living in an era in which money fails truly massively and that relates directly to what we have called money, treated as money. Credit is NOT money, as we are discovering. So what is?

  232. Money, and/or short credit, is a claim on future labor – automation may lower operating costs but it still requires humans be in the loop. If the nominal amount of worldwide debt is $75 Trillion and there are 7.5 billion people on the planet, more than half of whom do not earn the equivalent of $3 US per day, how long before the present debt, adding nothing to it, would be paid off?

    Of course the reality is total debt simply grows larger everyday…the only solution is default, and it will be ugly.

  233. Here in Oz there is a big-house saying. “Your either a horse or your a jockey”. It means you will either be the fucker or the fuckee. In life, sometimes you do the fucking and other times your the one that gets fucked and thats life. Our best Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser said life wasn’t meant to be fair. With these two things in mind, all you little fuckos whining about life isn’t fair etc etc etc, my advice is take a tablespoon full of fucking concrete and harden the fuck up, cause if you think its tough now wait till the real ride starts. If your not happy with that advice, well go and get yourself well and truly fucked, yet on the other hand I wish you no such luck. Keep up the great work Admin.

  234. @Admin:
    I am not the only – nor, by a longshot, the most authoritative – one to be saying exactly what I have said, above:
    “…these (are) tricks to make parasites appear to be a natural appendage to a
    well-functioning economy (as Economics Professor at University of Missouri, Kansas, Michael) Hudson explains:

    ‘Popular morality blames victims for going into debt…(in) a veritable Stockholm Syndrome in which debtors (actually) identify with their financial captors.'”
    (Source: http://wallstreetonparade.com/2015/08/michael-hudsons-new-book-wall-street-parasites-have-devoured-their-hosts-your-retirement-plan-and-the-u-s-economy/ )

    And we would be further discussing and exposing the above right now, were it not for the falsity of the following, possibly dumbest (which is really saying something) post in this entire thread:
    “TBP is a place where individual opinion is welcome.”
    ( http://www.theburningplatform.com/2015/10/20/confusion-delusions-illusions/#comment-1026351 )

    For the record, the following are the first 5x Adminsitrator responses to “welcome” individual opinion here:

    “Fuck you too. I don’t give a fuck about your personal situation. If you are too fucking stupid…”

    “Looks like this will be an article that brings out the trolls who refuse to accept personal responsibility…”

    “…Fuck the WE. I’m not you…So fuck you asshole…”

    “You reek of bitterness as I’m sure none of your woes…”

    “I await the arrival of Llpoh to vanquish the delusional trolls who will be outraged…”

    Not banning anyone but then allowing, and even actively inciting, sycophants to gang-tackle any and all dissent, is hardly a civil response – let alone a “welcome”.

    And for all the dumbasses – also apparently including the Admin, who suggested it explicitly: I did not come here seeking acolytes to follow me, in a revolution. Anyone who could bother to think for even 30 seconds about why I would come and post what I have, would realize I came shopping for a LEADER, worthy to follow in such a worthy cause.

    Sadly, there is no such person(s) to be found here: neither the Admin, nor any of the posters.

    Do tell the world if The Burning Platform can ever evolve into anything beyond just another Food Fight, at the Kiddie Table.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  235. Well, it isn’t a SHOUT OUT, but I’ll take it!!!! That was ME… I got honorable mention as the possibly dumbest post in the entire thread.

    And we would be further discussing and exposing the above right now, were it not for the falsity of the following, possibly dumbest (which is really saying something) post in this entire thread:
    “TBP is a place where individual opinion is welcome.”
    ( http://www.theburningplatform.com/2015/10/20/confusion-delusions-illusions/#comment-1026351 )

    I know you don’t want us feeling the trolls, Admin, but I’ve been reading a bit on a book I’m considering editing and haven’t been around.

    MattiePants… If you are looking for a LEADER you are in the wrong place. What the hell is wrong with you. Go away.

  236. I’m a boomer, lived near poverty line all my life, why do I have nearly 1/2 million in cash and PM’s?
    because I saved at least 20% of what little I made and put it aside-1/2 saved and 1/2 invested to grow.
    I bought things used, like my cars, my tools, my clothes etc. I paid cash for everything I bought rather than to make payments w/interest. I only borrowed if I was going to make more money on the asset I purchased, and paid it off in a year. I paid my credit card in full every month. I lived in low tax area

    ps I own my house and shops and vehicles and boats and motorcycles outright…no payments, no debts, I raised 7 kids too BTW. IT CAN ALL BE DONE WITH FRUGALITY AND DISCIPLINE

  237. @Maggie:
    “What the hell is wrong with (ME)”?

    You can look up your answer in: Season 2, Disk 1, Episode 6 – The Twilight Zone. However you shouldn’t need to – hell, the Aldous Huxley quote above (twice), already said it, for you.

    But I do thank you for so making my “indvidual opinion” welcome, here!

    I just think it should be abundantly obvious why a comment thread under a report on a current, nation-wide life-and-death problem, should be no place for deliberate and gratuitous jerking-off. For example, commentary on licking your husband’s balls. Or Admin’s love of bacon.

    Even – perhaps especially – if the lot of teenie boppers, graduate know-nothings plus older, certifiable retards do all think it makes you look “cool”.

    I would “normally” ask WTF can possibly be wrong with so many of you, all in one place, at the same time. But I am pretty sure that – even if any of you would give me a straight answer – none has the slightest clue, yourselves.

    This might well be the tip of an iceberg ultimately far more life-threatening, for its portent to society at large, even than squandering all of one’s financial resistance. I don’t know – it’s not my field of expertise.

    Too bad Aldous Huxley is dead.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

  238. @sculptor bill:
    All kudos to you, on your self-discipline, self-awareness and success!

    My concern about the thrust of this article, above, as pertaining to your particular circumstances, would come down to two things:

    1) This is the United States of America. Not only did we invent a helluva lot of the very stuff of modern civilization, right here, but we also came out of WWII with virtually every material and economic advantage in our favor. In the ’60s a single man, could work a straight 40-hour week and earn enough to pay for virtually everything you describe, without his wife even earning a dime to help. Now, only some 50 years later, you had to “live near (the) poverty line all (your) life”, to afford the same things. To me, this indicates a very disturbing and completely unnacceptable trend.

    – and –

    2) If there were a mass-revolution (actually a COUNTER-revolution) to restore the above, far more equitable economic environment – and let’s assume for the moment this mass-uprising was something you knew would succeed, though certainly with some cost and risk of perhaps great cost – would you be concerned that success stories like yours could be used to shame, demoralize and to convince people that it just wouldn’t be worth paying such a cost, nor taking the risk, making waves, etc. – but instead simply to put all their effort into scrimping more and saving more, in order to “make it”?

    I would be interested to hear your thoughts on those.

    Semper Fi,

    – Matty in FL

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