Robmu1 and I will be going to our first gun show on Saturday at the PA Expo Center in Oaks. Based on the pictures of people in line, it is hugely popular. I’m not looking forward to standing in a long line with a high temperature of 16 degrees on Saturday. With Obama and his liberal minions attempting to subvert the 2nd Amendment, I’m sure the crowds will be HUUUGE. I wonder if two suburban desk jockey dudes will stand out like a sore thumb. I should find an old flannel shirt and wear a MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN hat to fit in.
My plan is to buy a Smith & Wesson revolver that Avalon can handle easily. We have a Glock 19, but I think it’s time for a 2nd weapon. Any suggestions when it comes to S&W revolvers?
Gryffyn,
f=ma is good but Ek=1/2 x M x V^2 is more applicable.
I dont know, you commute into philthadelphia, spray and pray might be the best option…lol.
@ star,
Bluing is nothing more than color controlled rust. No kidding. Tanking parts in caustic salts results in them being turned a dark blue. It offers no environmental protection at all.
Actually applying an old fashioned finish – oddly called “rust bluing or browning” – is actually building up layers on the outside of the steel. It’s a hot, smelly, time-consuming mess, but it does result in a protective layer between the steel and the outside world.
Almost nobody does the hand applied “rust bluing” finish anymore. Just hot tank them and drive on.
I guess what I’m saying is that some guns are more resistant to corrosion than others. Stainless is good, but some folks don’t like it. Blued guns are handsome, but will corrode faster than others given the right conditions (living close to the sea, hot muggy weather, worn close to the body, etc). Which means you have to have a care and maintain your piece.
Some of those guns were made in stainless. I’ve seen stainless Detective Specials. Also, some were factory nickel plated. Some were silver plated. Some were given other finishes at some point in their lives, so it’s sort of a crap shoot.
I own some plain Jane blued pieces. It is what it is. You carry them, then you at least wipe them down when you put them up for the day. If you shoot it, you clean it.
One I forgot which I’ve always had a soft spot for is the Colt Mustang. Early ones were really beautifully made and even though the .380 is the bare minimum I would ever use for self defense, I wouldn’t feel undergunned with it… it’s a very pretty piece and one could do good work with it, I’m sure…
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WOA, if you hire an instructor and it turns out to be this guy, take a pass..
One caveat about the Mustang.
I’m of the opinion that the early ones were well made, simply because I have never come across a bad one.
But consensus seems to be that the early ones suffered from quality control issues. Bitches about the spring tension, guide rods, etc – these parts are easily replaced, which very likely happened, which probably accounts for me never finding one I didn’t like.
Which brings me to my last point – if you buy ANYTHING used, take it to someone like me (a smithy of good repute who knows what he’s doing) and have it thoroughly gone over – stem to stern, top to bottom. Have it DCOA’d – disassembled, cleaned, oiled and assembled. This will reveal any issues that need correcting. While it’s apart, you can tweak it – replace springs with better ones, replace other parts with better ones, replace other things like grips with ones you like better to dress it up some, etc.
Final thing would be a test drive. Put a whole box of ammo through it, at least. 50 rounds, no stops. If it passes, then I would give it my blessing. Field strip it, clean it again, lube and reassemble.
What I use and heartily endorse is a lube called MPro7. Not a whole lot of folks use it, coz it’s kinda pricy, but I recommend it. I’ve found it holds up better under hot and cold extremes better than CLP or BreakFree or even plain old oil.
Speaking of lube – the same thing that holds true for an engine holds true for a gun (most of the time) – any oil is better than no oil.
http://www.mpro7.com/
Billy
Surely you’ve seen the Weeping Soldier post. I’m surprised you have nothing to say about that.
You’re a military guy and I respect your opinions. If you have the time, can you weigh in on it over there? Even if it’s brief?
My opinion that the guy is a cowardly pussy is about evenly divided amongst the curs. Some people with whom I agree with on most topics think I’m full of shit. I’d like to know what you think …. and if your opinion is that I’m full of shit, well, that’s OK. I’m looking for honesty, not bullshit, and few deliver honesty as well as yourself.
Billy,
A military vet who was an “operator” in Afghanistan and Iraq recommended FireClean as a gun cleaner and lubricant. I’ve been using it for a couple of years (about 1/2 dozen cleanings on my 1911 and Ruger Mini-14.
Just found out now there is a controversy that FireClean is just canola oil. Here are links, one “exposing” the canola link (with chemical analysis), and one refutation from the FireClean inventor:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/yes-its-true-fireclean-is-crisco/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/13/fireclean-defends-product-publishes-statement-on-canolaoilgate/
Your thoughts?
Thanks
Oh gawd, are we going into a lube debate now?
Re: Firecanola: the final word is here:
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/a-closer-look-at-fireclean-and-canola-oil/
It is without a doubt chemically based on canola oil. It may or may not have some additives that affect its properties.
I’ve used lots of gun oils. Most of them work OK. Clean your guns regularly, oil them enough to work, but not too much. That is 10,000 times more important than what oil you use.
So, what oil do I use? Several, but my favorites at the moment are SLIP2000 EWL and Lucas Gun Oil. SLIP is very well proven. Look up “filthy 14” or check out this link:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/196990_.html
Lucas Gun Oil is cheap, extremely slick, and stays put. I’m not sure yet how it deals with the carbon load an AR15 creates. It would be my top choice for anyone just getting started and not shooting huge round counts per day. Or buy the more expensive SLIP2000-EWL and don’t worry about anything.
I’ve used various other oils, which mostly work OK: Weaponshield, FP-10, Froglube (oil is better than paste for most uses), Hoppes Elite (not regular), etc. They’re all fine. You would also be fine with 5w-30 motor oil or automatic transmission fluid (ATF). Don’t get hung up on brand X of oil.
Big important note: the M1A, M1 Garand, and Mini-14 need different lubricants than nearly all other firearms. They don’t do well with oil, they really need grease in certain areas. The milspec is a version of Lubriplate, but you should be fine with most NLGI grade #1 or #2 greases (don’t use #2 when it’s bitter cold, don’t use #1 when it’s over 90). Grease is not ideal most other firearms and will cause problems for some, but it’s needed for those three closely-related designs.
@Pers,
The weapons that require honest-to-Gawd grease are a known quantity, and yes, I have a Milsurp WWII-era issue “bucket-o-grease” specifically for those designs. I figure that unless a thousand guys all show up at the same time with Garands and they all need grease, that bucket will last me about, ohh… 50 years?
As far as the “lube argument” is concerned, well, what argument?
I like MPro7, but like any belt-and-suspenders type, I have CLP, BreakFree, Rem Oil, etc, on hand as well… it’s just what I prefer. Not looking to pick a fight (unusual for me – I know, right?). I’ve even used dry graphite, lithium grease, sewing machine oil and motor oil out of field expediency… like I said – any lube is better than no lube (except under specific circumstances, like breaking down and fixing an M60 in the desert, at night, with the wind whipping sand all around…. for obvious reasons).
Peace – all is copacetic.
@Rise
I’m pretty Zen on the whole issue of “what is the best (X)”… Seems the argument is settled – nothing for me to comment on.
If Fireclean is canola oil with some additives – but it works – well, so what? Use it and be happy. Just make sure to sock away a supply of it in your preps like everything else. Yes, you can keep your shit clean and running without the nice cleaners and lubes, but if 2Lt. Hirō Onoda could keep his shit clean and running for 30 years in the jungle with no resupply, then you can get by without metric-shit-tons of cleaner and lube, too…
Just be advised that just about any liquid or paste lube will degrade over time and oxidize, turning it into something resembling varnish. Some old duffers have brought me their favorite firearm with the complaint that it was non-functional… goes like this:
Me: What seems to be the problem?
Duffer: Well, my rifle does not function correctly.
Me: Can you be a bit more specific?
Duffer: Well, it worked just fine when I put it away, but now it doesn’t. Won’t even cycle.
Me: When did you put it away?
Duffer: I think that was 1972 or thereabouts…
They cleaned it and lubed it dutifully, then put it away for 40 years. The lube oxidized and ended up gluing everything together. A good cleaning with an aggressive solvent like Acetone will get rid of the old lube in short order… inspect for cleanliness and serviceability, reapply new lube, reassemble, test drive and you’re done…
Obviously, this does not apply to stuff like powdered graphite…
If someone whose been there and done that endorses it, and it works, and it makes you happy, then run with it. Don’t let anyone tell you different…
@Stucky
I’ll go take a look at the thread. I saw it, but haven’t gotten to it yet…
Peace.
Persnick, wasn’t trying to start a debate. Thanks for the info, especially about the Mini-14, which I own.
Sorry, “lube threads” are the gun forum equivalent of Godwin’s Law…. that is why I responded as I did.
That plus much of the thread being advice for newbies, I don’t want them to get wrapped around the idea that Unicorn Tears ™ is required to keep their gun running, and anything less is sudden death.
-out
Stucky says: Billy, I’m looking for honesty, not bullshit, and few deliver honesty as well as yourself.
I guess we’re all a bunch of lyin’ curs.
You are the man, it takes balls the size of chickpeas to scold you for posting an unpopular article. It would fly in 1968, not the Support the Troops today.
It takes major wrecking balls (I almost expect to see your hairy, leather mammoth sack, balls in a Museum of Notable Testicles one day – not soon.) to buck the crowd.
Gryffyn-The best gun in bear country is the one you have with you. Better a 22 in your hand than a howitzer back in the truck. Long guns are great, if you have it in hand, but when you are working (not hunting) in the bush with a long gun, the first thing you do is look for a place to set it down. Get a few yards away, and it isn’t better than the howitzer in the truck.
I know several folks who have taken bears (even a grizzly) in self defense with .357s, but I consider 41 Magnum or 10mm with hottish bear loads a minimum. 44 Magnum was the standard for decades, and still a good choice. The the 454, 480 and 50s are obviously ballistically superior, but too big and heavy for general carry and too expensive to shoot enough to stay proficient. The higher power the pistol, the more difficult to shoot well. Plus, they are just not much fun to shoot with full house loads.