Rob and myself finally did it. We went to a gun show. We had to park about a half mile away, because the crowds were so large. They even had shuttle buses running in the parking lot. I kept looking for Obama’s gun show loophole, but I couldn’t find it. What we found were a couple thousand American citizens who still believe in the 2nd Amendment and their right to exercise that freedom. We also found this shirt that reflects the thinking of hard working decent middle class white people.

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The people I saw haven’t benefited from some phantom white privilege. These were people who get up every day, go to work, pay their taxes, stay married, raise children, and reflect the true American spirit. They aren’t bitter about their lot in life. All they ask is to be left alone by an overreaching hostile government that considers them potential domestic terrorists because they know how to use guns, believe in liberty and follow the U.S. Constitution. This is what Barack Obama thinks of them:

“It’s not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.” – Barack Obama – 2008

His hope and change sloganeering in 2008 didn’t fool these people. I don’t think I’d be far off in estimating there wasn’t a single Obama supporter in that massive expo center. He despises and scorns working class white Americans. His quote above captures his disdain for us. His entire presidency has been the most divisive in history. He has instigated the race baiting. He hails Islam as a religion of peace while attending mosques and pisses on Christianity at every opportunity.

He uses every mass shooting, caused by young people on psychotropic drugs, as an opportunity to take guns out of the hands of white Americans. Where is Obama’s plan to get the illegal guns out of the hands of black gangstas in Chicago, Detroit, Philly, St. Louis, and dozens of other Democrat controlled urban ghetto kill zones? He wants to close gun show loopholes, as if the people at these guns shows are actually committing any crimes. Over 80% of all the murders in this country are committed by non-whites in dangerous welfare supported inner cities. There are few murders and little crime in rural America, because people are armed.

He ridicules the white working class because they are anti-immigrant and anti-trade. His response is to allow hundreds of thousands of Muslim refugees with no education and no skills to invade our country, further deteriorate or fraying social safety net, and eventually have some slaughter us infidels. This supposed man of the common people just signed the TPP bill which will destroy more American jobs. It was written in secrecy by corporate lobbyists and foisted upon the American people sight unseen. I guess we had to pass it to see what was in it, aka Obamacare.

This despicable excuse for a human being has bowed down to Wall Street, corporate interests, the military industrial complex and the Federal Reserve. He’s done nothing to help the average American. Obamacare is a clusterfuck that has driven premiums and deductibles sky high for middle class Americans, while driving small businesses into bankruptcy and turning full time jobs into part-time jobs. He is leaving the next president a $20 trillion national debt, with $1 trillion deficits as far as the eye can see, and $200 trillion of unfunded promises. And lastly, as I can attest, he will go down in history as the greatest gun salesman of all time.

The people at that gun show aren’t stupid. They know the government is the enemy. They aren’t buying guns for protection against foreign enemies or criminal gangs. They are buying guns because they don’t trust their politician leaders or the shadowy elite pulling the strings behind the curtain in NYC and DC. There were dozens of Trump shirts for sale. My guess is 75% of that crowd will be voting for Trump.

The people in that expo hall aren’t troublemakers. They are the silent majority who go about their lives not bothering anyone and not wanting to be bothered by Black Lives Matter activists, feminists smearing blood on themselves, male Olympians pretending to be a chick, college kids seeking safe spaces from micro-aggression, and hordes of uneducated ghetto rats demanding more free shit from them.

From a demographic standpoint I’d say that 90% of the attendees were male. At least 98% of the audience was white. I’d guess the average age was 45. We know 102 million working age Americans, or 40% of those able to work, are not working. Looking around that expo hall my estimation is that at least 90% of those men work. I bet many of them are self employed. Most of those men looked like they could fix your plumbing or electrical problems, put a roof on your house, or build you an addition. Not Obama’s kind of people. He prefers government supported ghetto slaves who vote Democrat to keep the free shit coming. Self-sufficiency, work ethic, marriage, and ability to defend yourself are antiquated concepts in Obama World. Anyone exhibiting these qualities is deemed suspect by the government.

The amount and variety of guns at this show is overwhelming for amateurs like Rob and myself. And it wasn’t just guns. There were knives, machetes, swords, tasers, and even crossbows.

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There were even cute little pink guns for ladies.

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We ended up not making any purchases, as the prices seemed kind of high compared to what I’ve seen on-line. You would think you might be a little uneasy with all those people around all those weapons, but it was the complete opposite. It would be comical if some Muslim attempted to shoot or slash someone at a gun show. They would be dead in an instant. There would be no cowering or running away. Hundreds of those dudes would be wanting a piece of that Muslim terrorist.

One of the more humorous observations from the show as we strolled up and down aisle after aisle of high powered rifles, hand guns and AR15s, was when we stumbled upon a table between the weapons tables with little girl scouts dressed in their uniforms and selling thin mints, tagalongs, and samoas. The juxtaposition of cute little girl scouts amongst thousands of bearded old men wearing camo, was amusing to say the least. After a couple hours of enjoyment we decided to hit the road and get some lunch and a beer or four at Chap’s Tap.

Avalon wasn’t too busy when we arrived. She seated us and brought us our first beers. Two hours later after sandwiches and three more beers we were ready to call it a day. We left her a big fat tip (which I get back anyway) and headed for home. It was a totally enjoyable experience. I certainly fit in among the gun show crowd and the crowd at the Shamrock in Wildwood, better than I fit in among business people and wealthy people. I’d much rather be in a foxhole with those folks than my suburban neighbors or the people I work with.

We all know the shit is going to hit the fan, if it isn’t hitting it already. When the debt supported house of cards collapses, EBT cards no longer work and the free shit stops, it’s the people at that gun show who will be able to survive and help rebuild this country based on the Constitution, individual freedom, liberty and self responsibility. If the government thugs think they can intimidate and suppress the heavily armed rural folk, they have another thing coming. 300 million guns in the hands of men who know how to use them will defeat any DHS contingent of hired thugs. Local police will either fall into line with the people or risk having their families killed.

The government fears the gun show crowd. And they should.

84 thoughts on “BLACK GUNS MATTER”

  1. “He despises and scorns working class white Americans.” ———– Admin

    It’s also why HE re-ignited the Cold War with Russia …. all those free and independent white people gotta be put in their place!!

  2. In thirty years of gunshow tables, I never got a hot check.

    Always had a friendly, helpful, courteous and pleasant time, even at shows where sales were slow.

  3. “There are few murders and little crime in rural America, because people are armed.”

    Well that and there is a certain class of people that understand the value of respect for their fellow human being. Virtue is not completely dead. Just slightly overwhelmed.

    “This despicable excuse for a human being has bowed down to Wall Street, corporate interests, the military industrial complex and the Federal Reserve.”

    In fairness this is the position of all those in places of political power. As such I am done hating and blaming politicians. They are puppets. I am moving on to “strongly disliking” an entire class of human being. It is populated by those at the very top and very bottom of the economic and political food chain as well as every religious persuasion, race and creed. But mostly I especially dislike self righteous, liberal progressive white people. Marxists disgust me.

    “And lastly, as I can attest, he will go down in history as the greatest gun salesman of all time.”

    Ya? Wait until Hillary gets elected. You ain’t seen nothing yet….

    “They know the government is the enemy.”

    It’s not that simple. Gov’t is but one tentacle of leviathan. Ask any one of your neighbours in your nice middle class neighbourhood. There will be at least a few that will back me up on this. Whether they like it or not… our fellow citizens have helped to fashion our chains – with a smile and a hand shake I would add.

    “If the government thugs think they can intimidate and suppress the heavily armed rural folk, they have another thing coming.”

    They do think they can. And they will. And it will not be pleasant for anyone anywhere.

    A thing like a gun show is pretty empowering because it is – as the lefties like to call it – an echo chamber. But the reality is that guns don’t win fights – intelligence, organization and tactics do. If the median age is as you describe it – around 45 – then we have a problem. 45 year old men with no organization and no knowledge of tactics or their enemies capabilities do not win fights. They either step aside or they die.

    I’ve watched a few government trained killers practice/work. They are fast, efficient and remorseless. The only thing they have against them at this stage is numbers. They are vastly outnumbered. Fortunately for them the Spartans and many others throughout the history of warfare have proven that numbers do not count for everything.

    Of course – as someone famous once wrote – death smiles on us all. All we can really do is smile back.

    Molan Labe indeed.

  4. ““If the government thugs think they can intimidate and suppress the heavily armed rural folk, they have another thing coming.”

    They do think they can. And they will. And it will not be pleasant for anyone anywhere.”

    My big fear going forward…….not only guns but more basic rights will be taken away to appease the free shitters.

    In the previous fourth turning post a few comments were complaining they have been waiting 40-50 years for the shit to hit the fan.
    If I remember all four turnings take an average of 80 years, so that would put us pretty close to what they have been waiting for.
    I’m not looking forward to the new liberal progressive future at all.

  5. “But the reality is that guns don’t win fights – intelligence, organization and tactics do. If the median age is as you describe it – around 45 – then we have a problem. 45 year old men with no organization and no knowledge of tactics or their enemies capabilities do not win fights. They either step aside or they die.”
    —-Francis Marion

    Maybe, maybe not. I am way older than 45, but I have a quarter-century experience in air-land warfare, including combat experience. My body wouldn’t make a good soldier anymore, but my mind would. And there are plenty more like me coast-to-coast, and most of us won’t step aside if the government turns on its citizens.

  6. Funny thing about guns shows. No open or CC allowed , unless you’re security right? But then once inside, look around.What do you see? Hundreds of men with just purchased weapons of all sorts, plus mags and 1000’s of round of ammo.
    If that ain’t open carry , I know what is. Yet as far as I know , there’s never been a shooting at a gun show….the safest venue in town.Now head on down to the Daytona County Club and that becomes another tale.

    Daytona Beach Country Club Shooting Leaves One Dead, Two Injured: Cops

    by Elisha Fieldstadt160213-lamont-postell-mug-310p_cab8b47869d16530ba4f674a714db530.nbcnews-fp-360-360.jpg

    Gunfire erupted at a Florida country club where college students were partying early Saturday, killing one person and injuring two others, police said.

    Police in Daytona Beach are searching for the suspected gunman — Lamont Keith Postell Jr., 23 — after he allegedly opened fire in the parking lot of the Indigo Lakes Golf Club following a fight inside.

  7. Grand Rapids MI, is not far from our little ghetto, Muskegon Heights.

    Last week it was Musk Heights vs Grand Rapids Ottawa Hills high school basketball at Musk Heights.
    There was a fight at the previous game the previous week between the two schools at GR so cops from two districts were on alert and in the parking lot of the school during the game in the heights.

    Didn’t matter, the yutes still had a gunfight in the parking lot. Four shot, one by a cop, all lived unfortunately….

    All to settle a score because of a fist fight. These pussy’s get a bloody nose so to retaliate, sumbody goin get capped.

    No regard for life, no saving them, no use for them.

  8. Obtain and read “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross. This book contains history and law lessons, as well as ways to “take back” our God-given Constitutional rights. It is a good read, and an essential part of any Constitutionalist’s library.
    Although pricey and out-of-print, it is still available from various sources.
    It is interesting to note that sellers of this book were routinely harassed by “alphabet agency” types (ATF, DEA, FBI)…
    Sorta tells you something…

  9. I lent out my copy of Unitended Consequences about ten years ago and it never came back, wish I could read it one more time. Seamless narrative, great characters, wonderful historical and technical tidbits throughout and worth the time it took to get through- 800+ pages.

    Good write-up Admin. I went to that show right before we moved up here. Bought some reasonably priced ammo IIRC.

  10. “He (Obama) uses every mass shooting, caused by young people on psychotropic drugs, as an opportunity to take guns out of the hands of white Americans.”
    —-Admin in his article


    I’m sure that the recent brutal murder of 13 year-old Nicole Lovell by two Virginia Tech freshman, 18 year-old David Eisenhauer and 19 year-old Natalie Keeps, is still fresh on everyone’s mind. A knife was used to murder Lovell, not a gun. Did anyone say to themselves, “That’s really bizarre. It just doesn’t make sense. How could they possibly do this?” Part of the answer arrived at the bail hearing for Keepers (bail was denied) when her defense attorney offered this information to the court.

    Natalie saw a therapist, Laura Davis, at Cooke Counseling Center at Virginia Tech. Additionally, Keepers went to a psychiatrist, Dr. Arbuckle, who prescribed 40mg of Prozac, an anti-anxiety medication. Keepers is also allergic to gluten and has never touched alcohol or drugs. She was asking for bond because the jail is not providing a gluten-free diet and only 20mg of Prozac.

    Further, Keepers has been on 40 mg of Prozac (a strong dosage) since SHE was 13. Per, the recommended starting dosage of Prozac for children and adolescents is 10 mg daily. Can you say “over medicated”? Also, there are currently 255 other medications, many of them over-the-counter, which have a negative, major interaction with Prozac. Only 255? Wow.

    Please join Admin and I in shouting, “IT’S THE FUCKING DRUGS, STUPID.”

  11. well said sir, I have attended many gun shows and I tell you I have never felt safer than in the company of righteous well armed men..

  12. Well done, admin. I hope Trump has the guts to arrest Obama, Valerie Jarrett, Holder and the others. Let’s give him a year to get all the reins in his hands and things under control, then he can safely frog march them to their cells. it is imperative that an example be made of them to ensure that nobody will ever dream of putting these kinds of traitors in power again.

  13. Rural people dont just not kill each other because they have guns. They dont have blacks, tons of welfare, major drug problems, and gangs. What they do have is courtesy, common dreams, homeschooling, parents (2), religion, and a work ethic. And they are white.

  14. admin,
    Nice writeup and good call on not buying if the prices werent right. Now go ahead an order yourself a 2nd glock 19.

    If interested there is another show at the oaks the first weekend in april which will be bigger than this past one.
    Im working on putting together a congregation to attend, any TBP members in the area will be welcome additions.

    The mind you describe is indeed important, and people shouldnt be surprised that people my age (mid 30s and younger down to the mid 20s) are becoming friends and building relationships with people our senior who posess these mindsets. We find we share common interests and stances.
    Interesting times are indeed ahead.

  15. I would only mention that crime in the suburbs and white rural America is not Lower because people are armed, but rather because of the nature of the people that live there.

    Iceland is a perfect example. Firearms are not a big thing there. Recently law enforcement had a historical moment where they had to shoot and kill a suspect for the 1st time in their country’s history.

    It’s the people that make a country.

  16. ya its hard to find good deals at gun shows these days. When I first started going, 8 or 9 years ago, if you went on a sunday after lunch you could find good deals, since they were almost done a lot of sellers would be willing to give you a pretty good deal towards the end, not so much anymore. I haven’t seen hardly any of the “gun show loophole” sales lately anyway. Ive wanted to buy another AR lower, preferably stripped, but a built one would be fine too, from a private seller at a gunshow. Haven’t been able to, the last 3 Ive been to, there hasn’t been one private party table selling them. I live in FL too, where that kind of thing is pretty common. Only private sellers Ive seen lately have been guys selling more of the antique/collectors item type guns.

    Since the obama admin has admitted to using the NICS system to illegally make a sort of gun registry(how else would they know the type of weapons purchased by people on the terrorist watchlist if they weren’t keeping the records in direct contravention of the law) people are wanting to buy their guns like that.

  17. HSF,
    The closest library around here to have John Ross’s book is Harvard College Library. How funny is that. It looks like they have it at Plymouth State University if you have privileges there. No ability to download onto Kindle, but I will look elsewhere. Admin, Thanks for the great write up, you still have not lost your fastball.

    Most people I know who own guns would prefer that the government not to ever know that they have them for obvious reasons. There are many out there who I know inherited or privately purchased and you will never know if they are armed unless they need to go on the offensive.


  18. Keep in mind that every gun you buy from a licensed dealer will have a record of you as the owner.

    And in many States where you are not allowed to transfer it without government permission you had better still have it when they come for it or be ready to give a good and legally valid reason why you don’t.

    Decide now what you are going to do and how you are going to go about it in advance, it’s a bit late to think things through and make plans when you’re being called upon to do something with the man standing at your door.

  19. HSF, Boston Bob ..Download here

    Unintended Consequences / John Ross – Freedoms Phoenix…/Unintended_Consequences.pdf
    by J Ross – ‎1996 –
    Library of Congress Cataloguing in Publication Data. Ross, John, 1957-. Unintended Consequences / John Ross. p. cm. ISBN 1-888118-04-0 I. Title. PS3568.

    Convert .pdf to .mobi (Kindle) with software download here :

    You’re welcome.

    1. by Karl Denninger

      Boycott Panera

      Their CEO has blood on his hands.

      On a Monday (ed: in 2014), Panera Bread CEO Ron Shaich publicly announced that customers should not bring guns into the bakery-cafe chain’s stores.

      Two days later (ed: actually, a fair bit later), a criminal pulled a gun and fatally shot a police officer inside a Panera restaurant in Abingdon, Maryland. He then fled the store and engaged responding police in a gunfight, killing another before being killed himself.

      Once again we have an inconvenient truth: Gun-free zones only stop law abiding citizens from carrying defensive weapons — to be evidenced in the form of a nut with a gun getting into a gunfight in one of his stores.

      The only person with a gun other than the nut was a police officer, which of course Panera’s CEO “exempted.” There’s no guarantee, of course, that had ordinary citizens in the store been armed there would have been a better outcome — given where this happened, in Maryland, where disrespect of the Second Amendment runs deep, long and serious, that’s unlikely — but the lesson remains no-less true.

      Criminals do not respect either the law or requests, which is why we call them criminals.

      You don’t put the little light and photocell near the floor on your garage door when you install an opener because it guarantees you won’t try to close the door on a person or object. You do so because it increases the odds of the bad outcome not happening.

      Likewise, you have a fire extinguisher in your home (I hope!) not because expect to have a fire or because it guarantees a fire will not occur and burn down your house, but because if you do have a fire you might be able to put it out before serious damage occurs.

      People have the right to keep and bear arms, and should not patronize any establishment that disrespects same, nor should they tolerate any damned “permitting” system including the politicians that demand same not because owning and/or carrying a gun is a guarantee that you’ll be able to stop a thug or terrorist, but because if a terrorist or thug appears where you are and tries to commit a serious felony you might be able to effectively stop him or her, either preventing or limiting the damage they can cause.

      Incidentally, there is a Panera that happens to be right at the halfway mark of a bike ride across the MidBay bridge that I often do in the spring and fall months. Fortunately there are easily a dozen other conveniently-located places to eat within a half-mile of there, and there is a zero chance that I will eat at Panera so long as this CEO and his policies remain in force.

  20. flash,

    A lot of what was in Unintended Consequences should be ignored, such as the friction tape idea (think DNA testing now but not back then). Best to think stuff like that through since it would work against you in stead of for you.

    Other stuff, like using a ground down kitchen knife like a street walking whore might carry is very notable for consideration.

    Just for literary discussion of course, I’m not suggesting anyone actually pay attention to it.

  21. @ anon…never read the book and the first I knew of it’s existence , so I haven;t a clue what you’re talking about..but I put it on my reading list, which is a very long It’ll be awhile..

  22. SSS writes:

    “Maybe, maybe not. I am way older than 45, but I have a quarter-century experience in air-land warfare, including combat experience. My body wouldn’t make a good soldier anymore, but my mind would. And there are plenty more like me coast-to-coast, and most of us won’t step aside if the government turns on its citizens.”

    I’ll play devils advocate here.

    Aren’t you ex CIA or FBI?

    If I were a gov’t goon and wanted to put down a rebellion before it began the first thing I would do is take out all of the older guys I thought were a threat intellectually. That wouldn’t be overly difficult since many are ex gov’t employees, bloggers, a few politicians (not many) celebrities etc who are vocal, visible and are yet to organize themselves. As such I would at least know where to start because I already know where they all live and what their habits are. Then I would target others who were prominent in the firearms industry. Especially retailers. Why retailers? Two reasons – retailers are the modern equivalent of supply lines and front line communication. They have the ability to reach out to millions of people and hold the means to supply them.

    I’d also also go after the executive of every gun club in the country for similar reasons. Now that the head has been removed from the uprising (either killed, imprisoned or simply had their property removed) I could focus on the few local militias. Drones will do nicely in dealing with these boys as after the weekend of operation “Axe to Grind” most of these guys have bugged out and headed for the hills. The ones that haven’t bugged out and who are operating in an urban environment are outgunned by local police and state guard who are now acting under martial law.

    Now the only ones left are the disorganized masses. Their supply chain has been cut, their leadership has been neutralized and their shock troops have been slaughtered. This is when things get really ugly. Brother turns against brother and gang warfare now reigns supreme. Nobody any longer trusts anyone, law and order breaks down and chaos reigns. It is hell on earth.

    This is what your fourth turning will look like if we think that guns are the only means left to solve our problem.

    I’m not saying that heads don’t need to roll and necks stretch – but if we think that there is going to be a shooting war with opposing sides going at it until someone wins I think we are deluding ourselves. On the other hand I get the feeling that it is too late to change the course of this ship and that when it arrives at its final destination no one on either side will be prepared for what happens next. When the social contract is torn asunder eventually even tyrants lose what they were looking for.

    If I were a government snoop reading this post thinking Francis just proved the gov’t will win and he is on the winning side I’d simply end by telling him that there are no winners here. If you have loved ones look around and ask how many of their lives you are willing to sacrifice on your alter of state righteousness. Chaos does not discriminate in who it takes. That is its nature. All will suffer.

    Call this my lament for western civilization. Down arrow away…

  23. Re: the bizarre Virginia Tech students’ murder of a 13yo:


    And that’s usually the case when an attractive late 20’s woman sleeps with a 14yo boy instead of the hundreds of successful late 20’s men who would be interested in her (often including her husband); when otherwise-normal suburban mom murders her family; when young-20’s men go on inexplicable shooting rampages; innumerable suicides among all ages, races, and both sexes; etc.


  24. re: ” ‘Unintended Consequences’ by John Ross. Although pricey and out-of-print” anarchyst

    The paperback edition of “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross Is Available from the publisher, Accurate Press. Cost is $40.00 delivered to one in the USA. Google Accurate Press or go to:

    Dan KurtBook-cover_unintended_consequences.jpg

  25. Francis Marion-

    With all due respect, you don’t have a fucking clue. Not one. I’ll leave it others to dissect the entirety of your misplaced post, but the ringer for me is this claim:

    “I’d also also go after the executive of every gun club in the country for similar reasons.”

    Wow, you have never been around the US shooting scene one bit. As someone who is, and was a long time director of a gun club, let me tell you some important facts:

    1) Many gun clubs don’t have any executive. They have a board and volunteers. Sometimes one or two board members will take a lot of tasks on their shoulders, but they are not an executive.

    2) If you can identify the most dedicated board members and arrest them, you will have arrested some retired white men between 60 and 85 who own less than 10 guns, hate “militias”, don’t do much shooting any more and mostly enjoy going to the club to mow its grass and fix stuff because it beats staying at home with the wife’s honey-do list.

    3) Militia groups that want a place to shoot find public land or someone’s farm. They are not welcome at any gun clubs. If they happen to use one they do so without ever uttering the word “militia” or anything like it.

  26. Persnickety,

    At least you know what you are talking about even if Francis doesn’t.

    Thanks for pointing that out, it fits the clubs I belong to perfectly.

  27. Persnickety,

    Sure – that’s why I call it playing devils advocate and not “These are the facts boys”.

    I am writing with the the perspective of my own experience and am applying the idea universally to all countries in the west as best as it can be done since our situation and our experiences are not universal it will never seem perfect – but it doesn’t need to be. It is meant to be a mental exercise to push you outside of your current perspective.

    My perspective on clubs for example is coloured by experience here in my own country. The brush stroke is broad and almost silly in its scope but the principles are worth thinking about. if you get caught up in the minutae then you miss the point.

    Thus – the point here is not for me to be right or you to be wrong or even to fling shit. It is simply to consider the possibilities.

    Of course if you want to turn this into a shit flinging exercise by all means go right ahead. I’m not interested.

  28. Have you ever heard of a government that banned it’s own ARMED FORCES from “Keeping and Bearing” ARMS?
    Find one government in the history of humanity that felt a need to document a “RIGHT” for it’s ARMED FORCES to possess ARMS.
    The claim that the Government wrote the 2nd Amendment to give Our ARMED FORCES a “right” to carry ARMS is S-T-U-P-I-D.
    The only reason for the Second Amendment is to clearly spell-out the GOD GIVEN RIGHT of INDIVIDUALS to keep & bear ARMS.
    The only reason for the BILL(list) of RIGHTS was to codify INDIVIDUALS’ GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.
    Has there ever been a government that was not chock full of it’s “rights” up to and including declaring itself to be the Lord God Almighty?!
    Does the 1st Amendment mean the GOVERNMENT is allowed to give speeches? Try shutting up any Government.
    Anyone who tells you the 2nd Amendment applies to the Army or State Militia, is telling you they think you are STUPID.
    There has NEVER been a government that felt it had to codify it’s army’s/soldier’s “RIGHT” to “Keep and BEAR ARMS” because there has NEVER been a government that refused to allow It’s own soldiers to KEEP and BEAR ARMS!

  29. Francis, I’m not big on shit flinging and go there mostly in retaliation. However, I do think your post is simply wrong in many ways. I pointed out one, in detail.

    There is a paradox in dealing with rebellious movements – they more attention that a government gives to one, the more they strengthen it.

    As of today, I don’t believe there is any real rebellion in the US, anywhere. There are some militia groups, but probably fewer and smaller than the left-wing-authoritarian hate groups make it out to be. However, if the central govt were to try and target people as you suggest, what does not now exist would probably spring into being overnight.

    We all know about the Oregon Malheur farce. If the govt goes no farther on that, it will probably dissipate and be forgotten except by those imprisoned for it. However, if the govt tries to “take the initiative”, make an issue of that, and go after people who were there briefly and have not been arrested to date, they could create a much greater rebellion. Just one example.

  30. i will tell you this, having heard it from the horse’s mouth;
    the military have hand held weaponry that can cut a house in half.
    they have drones the size and aspect of insects.
    you won’t know they are there but they will know where you are.
    and ‘they’ take opposition down one at a time–look at lavoy finicum.
    the Constitution and its advocates will be nibbled to death. death by a thousand cuts.

    those who say our military won’t turn against us are unaware that the younger generations do not have our attitude nor our knowledge of the Constitution.
    they have essentially been educated marxist when they have been educated at all.
    their superiors -note how the upper ranks of the military are being pruned of all officers who would be opposed to the ‘new world order’- will have told them that they are shooting rebels, not that they are shooting the only firm ground left upon which this country can stand.
    all other ground is sinking sand.

    pray to God to save us all.

  31. @Deb: someone forgot to tell the VietCong and ARVN how hopelessly outclassed they were, going against a leading nuclear power with strategic bombers, submarines, helicopters, etc. Yet they won. The USA has always had among the most advanced weapons. Some of them even work as advertised! Many do not. Regardless, the weaponry available is a small part of the overall calculation. Germany had vastly more advanced weapons than the Allies in 1944, and it didn’t get them anywhere. I’m not advocating any sort of anti-government action, simply saying that a focus on high-tech weaponry is misplaced.

  32. “Aren’t you ex CIA or FBI?”
    —-Francis Marion @ SSS

    Ex-Air Force (pilot) and ex-CIA with extensive experience working with the FBI on domestic terrorist investigations. I know how FBI special agents think and work. They are extremely professional and dedicated to doing their job “by the book,” meaning no extra-Constitutional shortcuts. What that translates to is, if you are arrested by the FBI, the chances that you will be convicted is in the 90% range.

    I see that you are already in a “discussion” with Snick. Heh. So I’ll leave it at that and throw in one more factor

  33. Persnickety,

    It wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong about something. I am always pleasantly surprised when I am right.

    I absolutely agree with you (believe it or not). If you want my personal perspective on the decline of the west in general (outside of playing devil’s advocate) I subscribe to the long slow burn theory. But that’s a big topic and not the point here. Moreover, black swans have a way of landing in the middle of your theories and shitting on them so I don’t hold too hard and fast to that either.

    The point is simple – articles like Admin’s raise questions that are relevant to our time in history. While there is no rebellion anywhere in the works that I am aware of it would be wrong to say that the government (ours and yours) does not consider such a thing a possibility or a threat and it would be wrong to say that it is not on the minds of many men in the western world.

    If this is indeed true then it seems it is possible something of this nature will eventually happen somewhere in the west at some stage and I believe if it is to happen that our expectations of such an occurrence should not be coloured by fantasy or an overestimation of our own strengths and our opponents weaknesses but rather through a worst case scenario version of events. If those who consider such things are no longer viewing them through rose coloured glasses then all the better. Moreover, if people on both sides of the fence are looking at things from a realistic perspective then even better yet.

  34. Fuck. Another auto post.

    So I’ll …… throw in one more factor for Francis Marion to consider – the vast number of Air and Army National Guard units which are also well trained and well armed. Uh, those units are largely manned by the people living in the area they are located. Think they will turn on their families, neighbors, and friends if things get out of hand? I personally don’t think so. The federal government doesn’t hold all the cards. And yes, I’m aware the president can try to put the Guard units under his command. Try.

  35. I think it was Fukayama who was not that long ago talking about the end of history- All other civilizations decayed and fell, but not this time. We’re different. We’re special. History ends right here and thus it will always be.

    Or something to that effect.

    I don’t doubt that the military industrial complex possesses all kinds of high tech gadgetry, that still doesn’t help them save folks in Benghazi, defeat the Afghans, disarm North Korea, prevent mass murders, eliminate ISIS/ISIL/Xe/Xer/Zizzle.

    There is a chasm between what is available and competency. Technics does not equate to ultimate victory.

    “And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed.”
    ― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

  36. Francis, they don’t have to lift a finger. All they have to do is cut the internet. There could be major fighting going on ten miles away, and you won’t know it. Anon, you are correct. The background check IS the registry.

  37. SSS,

    If you are indeed ex CIA as you claim then I suspect you are considerably smarter than I am especially when it comes to the mechanics of your owned armed forces (almost everyone on this board has one on me in that aspect). So let me look at this strictly from the perspective of human psychology and likely outcomes and once again as the devils advocate.

    Imagine that your national guard is called up. Outside of it’s upper command structure – it does not know why. It is assembled and given orders. It is informed that a major domestic terrorist threat has been identified and its responsibility is simple – to maintain order. They are not told who the threat is, where it is or how it is operating but their presence in the streets is required to maintain order and keep the population safe while other units work on the problem. At this stage they are doing their duty. As time progresses contractors, elite government forces and certain types of law enforcement (cowboys) enter the picture and begin the dirty work with the guard standing by in the streets ‘keeping people safe”. They are by and large still unaware of who they are looking (they are not really ‘looking’ for anyone – they are a presence- muscle) for but it doesn’t take long for them to figure out what is going on as they see gun shops being boarded up, inventory and computers being hauled away and lots of ordinary middle class men being hauled off in trucks to God knows where. It takes about 2 days at the most for the word to spread amongst the low level officers and grunts that something really stinks and they have been duped into helping the administration begin a purge.

    In your estimation – given that their boots are already on the ground in the cities and towns and that a certain amount of people and property have already been picked up – how many would now turn on said contractors, elite forces/law enforcement and their own command structure? What would be the consequences if they did? Would it be simple and swift or complicated and messy? Would anything happen at all?

    Looking at history my feeling is that when men are in a military establishment they tend to take orders and follow through on them by and large. Most are afraid of rocking the boat. Even if 20% were disgusted by what was going on they are not organized and have no idea of how many other units might sympathize. They may abandon their posts but I think it is unlikely at the guard level that they will revolt simply because they are not organized to do so and would fear the consequences wrought by their officer core. My feeling is that structure has a huge impact on human psychology and will often over ride morality. Uncertainty of outcome will force the majority of the guard who object to stay in line. Command can always make swift examples of those who don’t thus establishing order with the units themselves.

    So out of the gates my guess is that the guard could be used effectively. Over time that may change – for lack of a crystal ball I am unsure of what would come next. Nothing good is my guess.

    1. It took 1,000 police and national guard troops 7 fucking weeks to apprehend one cop killer in the Poconos of PA. Imagine hundreds of thousands of heavily armed Americans hiding in woods, mountains, cities, suburbs, and in homes all across the country. The government thugs wouldn’t stand a chance. Guerrilla warfare has defeated government forces in many instances throughout history.

  38. Wow Francis, good discussion. And to further complicate things, the ordinary threatened citizen takes it upon himself to start shooting at the military in what he considers self defence since he doesn not have any willing to hear government to attend to his grievances. He starts killing them…then what do you do now, oh miltiary man?

  39. Admin,

    I often think of the events in California when one rogue police officer consumed the law enforcement resources of the entire region. The objectives of both parties here are quite different though from a rebellion.

    The purpose of a rebellion is to either secede, conquer or acquire infrastructure and territory for political purposes. Once this is accomplished then political infrastructure can be restored. The in between time is chaos. Moreover I think you would be wrong to assume that 100’s of thousands of armed men running around the country without moral/political leadership or a common goal would produce noble results.

    Even if there were was leadership you would still be wrong to assume that the country would not be divided over the issue. You could potentially end up in another civil war of some kind with various politico’s and military men vying for power and gaining support thought the use of rhetoric. See Rome.

    The possibilities for how this would play out are almost limitless in this sense. There are too many players more important and more powerful than us, too little leadership and not enough ‘knowns’ to say how it would all end. But I think if you understand the uncertainty of it all and address your weaknesses then you will begin to see what path needs to be taken and you can improve your odds of creating a better outcome. But simply hoping that having armed men will make difference is dangerous. If it were true Mogadishu would be a prime tourist destination….

  40. Admin, your summation of the gun show up your way is typical of how the one here in Northern Virginia looks. The difference on Saturday here is that the convention center where ours is held opened up 20% additional space from the previous shows. The parking lot was overflow into the adjacent Wal-Mart and other merchants next door, and despite 23 degree temps with wind chill near zero, the event was packed (but luckily no waiting lines outside to get in).

    My goal was to score some ammo but the prices weren’t any lower than Wal-Mart’s unless you were buying 100-, 500-, or 1000-round bulk purchases. I went ahead and bought some 5.56 and .45 anyway just to throw some money to these vendors.

    But my primary objective was to get my hands on a Beretta PX4 Storm Compact. Despite dozens of handgun tables that were available, only one had this pistol, and it was of course way overpriced. At least I did handle it and liked the feel. I’m shopping for a decent priced one online.

    Today I went to the indoor range to test out the replacement scope rail I put on recently and had sighted in with a laser-bore at home. My Mini-14 was running my ammo near flawlessly (one FTF out of 150 rounds), pushing out everything from Russian polymer coated, zinc coated, PMC bronze, and Remington .223. I did end up injuring myself right off the bat when I put a staple through my trigger finger when applying my paper targets to the cardboard backing. Then I had to sheepishly ask for a band-aid.

    Next time I’m bringing scotch tape…

  41. “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst; the cursed machine would have ground to a halt . . .”
    – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

  42. Glad to see mention of John Ross’s “Unintended Consequences” book. I read it a couple of years ago, amazingly the county library system had a copy. Everyone who is a regular here should read it, IMO.

  43. Reading this essay today makes me feel proud to be the son of a once great nation.

    This photo hangs in my shop. Had it blown up and put it into a frame few years ago. Old school bad asses with a sense of humor. Sometimes I like to stare at it if only to remind me….


  44. It is obvious you have NO government you can call your own. You or they put in a negro not fit or lawful to be up there.

    And Congress has not bothered to remove the negro. In fact they put him in.

    Since the negro is NOT lawful no laws or appointments by him are legal. You can ignore the negro and it is in your SUPREME interest to do so.

  45. “Imagine that your national guard is called up. Outside of it’s upper command structure – it does not know why.”
    —-Francis Marion

    Your scenario about Guard units in the U.S. is totally beyond the pale, starting with that sentence. All Guard units are under the command of the governor of the state in which they are located. If a Guard unit is “called up” to active duty (or federalized), it comes under the ultimate command authority of the president.

    I’ve never known or heard of your “does not know why” hypothesis. Starting with the senior civilian executives and elected legislators of the state, plus the state’s senior national guard staff, literally dozens and dozens of state officials will know why and where their people are going. Did I mention that I spent nearly 3 years as an Air Force advisor to an Air National Guard unit? I think I know what I’m talking about. Your scenario won’t happen, because it can’t.

  46. Francis, I mean you no ill will, and I understand and appreciate that thought experiments can be fun and interesting, and sometimes useful. I think the US social and government system is quite different from how you picture it. Far more chaotic, and while somewhat centralized on paper (with a nominal federal republic that no longer works how it supposed to), the actual operation is very decentralized and compartmentalized.

    It’s always a wildcard whether government employees ordered to do bad things to people who aren’t that different from them, except for not being govt employees, will do so. I don’t want to find out the true answer. But I think it would be far more varied and unpredictable than you think, and it would only take 1-3 days before all hell would break loose in really spectacular fashion. Think of every armed govt agent in the USA, at all levels, going breakup-of-Yugoslavia with 100+ distinct and shifting factions. I think there would be so much warfare between factions of nominal govt agents that true civilians would mostly need to just stay out of the crossfire for a few weeks.

  47. I am a believer that the military tends not to turn on its own people.

    It is the police that do that. Despots use the police when they want to attack their people, as a rule, and in preparation for that they tend to dramatically expand the police force.

    In the US, the folks that I would classify as police include DHS, IRS, FBI, ATF, and sundry police. Are those numbers expanding? How about their armaments? Doh!

    It is those folks that will do the dirty work, as they are accustomed to it – they do it for a living already, and are trained in it, and are indoctrinated in it.

    As opposed to the military, who most certainly are not.

  48. As my own personal addendum to Francis Marion:

    I have been thinking about your comments here today. All day in fact. I always seem to appreciate your eloquent writing as well as your insight. You may be more accurate in your assessment(s) than many here would like to admit. Clearly, I am not expert on matters you have raised that some are now challenging. You clearly stated you were merely laying out possible scenarios and not dictating them as if there were no other possible outcomes. In doing so, some of your comments on this this thread read like a Tom Clancy or Joel Rosenberg novel. I, for one, appreciate your input.

    I know, in previous threads, you have received grief over “hitting the pause button”. This is a nice thought to have more time to prepare, etc. However, it’s up to TPTB and they keep hitting “play” at every turn.

    As far as I am concerned, this means I will hit “fast-forward” and pray for divine intervention.

    Whatever happens will. I will keep on asking, keep on seeking and keep on knocking and make the best decisions for my family at any given time. In any event, may God help us all.

    Just my two cents…

  49. There is no animal on earth more dangerous than an 19 year old empowered by government with the right to kill..history will attest..SSS understand this era the way a troglodyte understands algebra…not so much.


    One third of millennials view socialism favorably

    Younger Americans have a much better view of socialism, and worse view of capitalism, than their elders

    Bernie Sanders, a Senator for Vermont and currently the only declared challenger to Hillary Clinton for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, is the only member of Congress to describe himself as a socialist. For much of the Cold War socialism evoked images of military parades in Moscow’s Red Square, but for Sanders, and many of America’s self-declared socialists, their aim isn’t to bring revolution to America but to make America more like Sweden and Norway.

  50. Llpoh says: In the US, the folks that I would classify as police include DHS, IRS, FBI, ATF, and sundry police. Are those numbers expanding? How about their armaments? Doh!
    Bingo! re: Arming federal civilian agencies such as the EPA and Social Security Administration.

    “As the U.S. engages in a national debate over the militarization of the police, federal data shows that government agencies charged with largely administrative roles are spending tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to purchase SWAT and military-style equipment.

    Since FY 2006, 44 traditionally administrative agencies have spent over $71 million on items like body armor, riot helmets and shields, cannon launchers and police firearms and ammunition, according to federal spending data from watchdog group”

  51. Undaunted, how anyone could give you thumbs down on your last two posts is beyond comprehension.

    I am friends with a city cop in NH, former Marine and have talked to him at length about what he would do given certain orders. His reply, – I will follow the Constitution and disobey any orders I deem against the Constitution. Maybe the next generation of cops aren’t like that due to public school “education”, or more to the point indoctrination non-education. But I pray that is not the case.

    In any event, in the scenarios being considered here, I think the wild card is the gangs. Well armed roving diverse (haha) with no morality or principles or love of freedom. In that vein I leave you with this:

  52. Guns. I actually have even more amazing photos than that as well as antiques. Someday you might see me on A & E’s “Hoarders”. But for tonight, I will probably just watch The Walking Dead. 🙂

  53. Persnickety,
    The ARVN were not aligned against the US. ARVN stands for Army of the Republic of Vietnam – South Vietnam.
    Also, the Germans in 1944 had 5-shot bolt action rifles against 8 shot semi-autos, older fighter plane designs compared to P-51s (and P-47s, for that matter), and zero heavy bombers. They had no plane-mounted radar (ours clobbered their U-boats). Their artillery started the war being horse-drawn. They had better training, in many cases.
    But all was not lost – after the war we used our money to rebuild their factories and infrastructure, which they used to make our 1920-1930s factories look stupid. The bankers know what they are doing – make money going in; make money coming out …

  54. ILuvCO2 says: “Undaunted, how anyone could give you thumbs down on your last two posts is beyond comprehension.”

    Sometimes, I think people get in a hurry and they just hit the wrong button on the widget? It’s only thing I can think of? I have done this on some of bb’s posts when he’s raging against the Jews. Or, I think El Coyote might be mad at me? We sometimes go through these periods. It’s OK.

  55. SSS , I hope you are right about the national guard not firing on civilians. Here in the Carolinas the guard is well trained and well armed. They even have attack helicopters in some of the units. Many have been deployed numerous times in Iraq and Afghanistan.Most are home now.

  56. SSS,

    I’m aware of how your guard structure works. I think Flash responded better than I could have.


    I suspect that in time we would see how completely decentralized the system truly is (more so than you are suggesting even). Right down to local law enforcement and households themselves there is less continuity than either side is willing to admit. The issuing of such orders here/there would be shocking at first, many would suffer quickly and then all hell would break lose and more would suffer. As Flash is often quick to point out when it comes right down to it we are a pretty tribal species. Leadership and direction are required. Create a vacuum and everyone will eventually regret it.

  57. Allegorical lesson from tonight’s fictional episode of The Walking Dead’s opening scenes: Never give up. It ain’t over till it’s over. Think on your feet, improvise and do “W.I.N.N.” (i.e. – What Is Needed Now). Oooh-rah…

  58. @Mr. Ed:

    My mistake on ARVN, I think I meant NVA. I wasn’t born yet.

    Re: WW2 Germany in 1944. You said: “Also, the Germans in 1944 had 5-shot bolt action rifles against 8 shot semi-autos, older fighter plane designs compared to P-51s (and P-47s, for that matter), and zero heavy bombers. They had no plane-mounted radar (ours clobbered their U-boats).”

    I was responding to someone else’s comment about the US Army of today have insect-sized robot drones and some mystery weapon that will cut houses in half. And perhaps on some procurement contract they do. Likewise, in 1944 parts of the Germany military had available to them an absolutely awesome jet interceptor, the Me-262, which was terrifying and nearly unstoppable except right after takeoff and just before landing. They had the MG-42 machinegun that was far better than our comparable guns, to the point that the US Army had a training film specifically on how to fight them without being scared shitless. This was widely deployed but ammo was not always in extensive supply. Yes, the primary RIFLE was a 5-shot bolt action compared to the 8-shot Garand semiauto, but the German troops had extensive supplies of MP-40 submachineguns, the aforementioned MG-42 and the also excellent MG-34, and limited supplies of the vastly more advanced FG-42 personal select-fire rifle and STG-44 original assault rifle. They had the relatively effective Panzerfaust individual antitank weapon. In short, they had numerous weapons that were more advanced than what was ready to field among the allies at the same time. However, many of them were not fielded due to logistics and/or destruction of German manufacturing by Allied bombing, and the ones that were fielded were not sufficient to turn the tide. That last point is my major point in response to the other poster.

    If I chat with the local National Guard, or even with members of regular Army units I know, I will hear that the “insect-sized robot drones and some mystery weapon that will cut houses in half” are not actually deployed, and probably have never been seen before. Maybe 10-20 years from now they will trickle down into various units. I’ll bet they don’t end up working that well in actual use – so many of the new-technology weapons fail to really work in their first several “deployed” iterations.

  59. Unapproved , so you’re a walking dead fan ?.Me to .I think I would have probably been a zombie by the third show.Tough life in zombie apocalypse tv land.

  60. What a Stupid Redneck article – $shit for brains indeed ! Oh & all those “followers” (aka idiots) with their lame brained applause comments just sums up what’s wrong with your soon to be humbled USA.
    Fuck wits!

  61. bb- I guess I got hooked on the Walking Dead doom porn years ago. I find it interesting to consider post apocalyptic scenarios, even if fictional (for now).

    James – keep typing your inane bullshit and you will very soon find yourself in a fetal postion, sucking your thumb in the corner of your bedroom, back in Great Britain, Norway, Switzerland, or wherever pretending it’s your own dick. Please reply.

  62. James probably lives in Sweden and is watching his girlfriend get raped by Muslim immigrants right now and jacking off wishing it was him instead.

  63. Guns? What a ludicrous idea. I took my savings and invested them all in the stock market. That’s where America’s Future is.


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