“White nationalists” as they call themselves would like to US to be close to one hundred percent white. So would I. So would many tens of millions of Americans who do not call themselves white nationalists, but are. Diversity causes nothing but trouble, and is doing so now. However, America can’t be completely white, or even close. The time for that idea is long past. The practical question becomes: What now?
White nationalists, often inaccurately called “white supremacists,” want to close the border. So do I. They want to make Obama stop importing every sort of third-worlder he has heard of. So do I. They want to deport illegal aliens. With exceptions, so do I.
For the sake of discussion, let us assume that all of this has been done. At this point the white nationalists (hereinafter just “nationalists”) run out of gas, having so far as I am aware no further plan or aim beyond a loathing for anything not white and European.
The utility of this is not clear. The disappearance of the illegals would leave some 45 million legal Latinos: birthright citizens, naturalized citizens, legal residents and, increasingly, completely American citizens of Latino descent. (The numbers are shaky, but “whole really big bunch” would be accurate.) My question to white nationalists:
What do you recommend doing with, about, for, or to the tens of millions of legal Latinos? What specifically, and how do you propose doing it?
Many of the arguments made by the nationalists are rational—we don’t need the population, American businessmen unemploy Americans by giving jobs to illegals, the costs of assimilating them are high, and so on. Well and good, but mostly a bit late. Meanwhile the nationalists transparently seethe with hatred of Latinos. How this will prove of service to the United States eludes me.
This antagonism leads them to distort and even lie. Their opponents do likewise. Most of the public I suspect, having no independent source of information, has to guess between.
So, what do nationalists propose? I do this not as a challenge but in search of understanding, a reasonable question in search of a reasonable answer. The question is one of the most important that can be asked. The country deserves a concrete answer. The politically correct classes say things like, “We need comprehensive immigration reform.” That can mean anything, and therefore means nothing.
My answer would be: Try to make legal Latinos into productive citizens, which should not be terribly hard. Leaving them alone, and not allowing governments to turn them into a welfare class, would probably do the trick. If nationalists have a better idea, or another idea, I would be happy to consider it.
Since tens of millions of Latinos are in the country, and are going to stay, it might be wise to seek at least a modus viventdi and an amicable relationship, and better, assimilation, rather than needlessly encourage hostile relations. A difficulty here is that below the reasoned arguments of the nationalists there lies a horror of intermarriage. Correct me if I am wrong. To many, successful assimilation would be worse than keeping Latinos somehow cordoned off.
The problem, of course–“of course,” anyway, to people who have lived in the developing world–is that so many of the immigrants are not of the middle class. Once people have a decent job, spouse, mortgage, car, refrigerator, two kids and a dog, they become placid, maybe a little boring, and spend their time taking the kids to soccer practice. (How many of the people shooting each other in Chicago fail to fit this description? How many middle-class blacks shoot each other? Exactly) Thus it might be wise to encourage the entry of Latinos into the middle class.
Unless the desire is to keep them out of the middle class. Is it?
I have framed the question on the assumption that the border has been closed, which it hasn’t, and won’t be for most of a decade if Hillary comes in.
Do white nationalists propose to encourage assimilation? How? Discourage it? How? Let nature take its course? If the choice is to discourage assimilation, the practicality would seem doubtful, since in many places in the US the races mix amicably, and many Americans in Mexico who have Mexican wives speak highly of the idea.
Do white nationalists favor teaching Latino kids English in the schools, or not doing so? Should white children be allowed, or required, to learn to speak Spanish? The idea seems to set off spasms of revulsion in some nationalists, though if you told a German that his kids should not learn English or French, or both, he would look at you strangely. Discouraging monolingualism would make for assimilation, if that should be desired.
Is assimilation possible? I think so, eventually anyway, but we shall see. I do know that if (a) Latinos, already probably twenty per cent of the population, become ghettoized, isolated, hostile and dysfunctional, the United States is over, fini, done, and (b) constant attacks on them as Latinos tend to lead to this end. It Is one thing to deport illegals, verify citizenship for employment, and punish criminals. It is another endlessly to characterize Latinos as criminal, stupid, and foul. Which is what white nationalists relentlessly do.
The curious thing is that nationalists seem to want Latinos to be as undesirable as possible. If I write that n Mexico the schools are not chaotic and kids learn to read, that Mexicans do not breed like flies, (fertility rate, CIA FactBook: 1960: 6.78; 2015: 2.26), that the country runs the standard technological infrastructure of airlines, telecommunications and hospitals, on and on, the response never varies: Fred is lying, everything good is done by the white part of the Mexican population, and these defects are genetic and pleasantly irremediable.
One would think that the nationalists, having millions of Latinos in their country, would welcome evidence that the newcomers were not as terrible as thought–hoped, I could almost say. No. To hell with the country, but do not threaten my internal furies.
We have an interesting approach to national suicide. On one hand, favoring unlimited immigration, we have the Googooing Good, the big money men, Hillary, and Obama, which will make matters worse. On the other hand, white nationalists who apparently want a bar fight. What could be smarter?
Maybe Fred should just post his crap in Spanish?
I see your point and like a good American and person, I support a Wall and full integration but expect the Fifth Columns to bring not a bar fight but a Communist Revolution to me just like they did in Socialist Countries all over the world. So in my Right hand is an olive branch and Bible but in my Left is a gun for self defense.
WTF – hope he was just drunk when he wrote this drivel.
Fred pre-supposes many things not in evidence. Many Latinos came here to earn money, often to support relatives back home. Let’s suppose, not a Wall, not a law, but a miserable long-suffering economic depression that saps the strength from so many that they cannot support themselves, cannot get a job, cannot get benefits (because with tax revenues down, state and local governments cannot maintain EBT and welfare, and such transfer payments go down / go away). What will Latinos do?
It’s MUCH cheaper to live in Mexico (and the weather’s better) so they would likely leave! Where are 45 million legal Latinos going to be when faced with a choice of (A) America, high expenses, no benefits, no job or (B) Mexico, low expenses, no benefits, no job, relatives who might be able to help?
Fred begs the question where he doesn’t like the answer.
Much of the problem would be solved if we just banned all forms of public assistance to non-citizens. No public school, no E-room service, no free housing, no free food, no WIC, no in-state college tuition-wait, no state college at all, no free heating oil, no Barry phone, no federally-backed loans, etc. With nearly all forms of social support barred them, I suspect most would have to leave.
If we then declared their continued presence in the US to be a continuing criminal enterprise and declared all their possessions forfeit to local, state, and federal law enforcement, they would very quickly depart as the cops swooped in to seize bank accounts, vehicles, illegal businesses, homes, etc. Sayonara, suckers!
Say what you want, but I read a statistic a year or two back that said 75% of legal immigrants go on some form of public assistance, while 95% of illegal immigrants were on public assistance. This is crazy when you consider when my foreign-born spouse immigrated legally I had to promise in writing to support them and they would never go on public assistance or be deported.
You are correct Gilby, the forms you fill out make you swear to provide all medical expenses and to forswear public assistance. Those things are quickly forgotten just like marriage vows.
People are assholes.
Old Sarge said that when you are dealing with people, you are dealing with variables.
I don’t recall the topic but I was telling my wife that China once tried to control the public by putting executed criminals heads on a stake for the public to see.
I have a religious moral here: The reason god pivoted from punishment to forgiveness is that people never learn, they will always disobey. They seek their own interests always. He said, as they tell you in the military or in court, your on your own recognizance.
Fred talking lots of “woulds and coulds”. He should just get right to the point….
One thing did jump out at me though. He says..
“it might be wise to encourage the entry of Latinos into middle class…”
Implying to me that so far this hasn’t been done. And why should it be done? Mr. Reed is giving those folks no agency to do this themselves and instead implies that there is systemic oppression of yet another minority.
Years ago when I was first awakening to these issues, Fred and I carried on an email exchange. It ended when I pressed him for some kind of solution- not that I expected it would ever be implemented, but I was curious. What would he do to turn things around, I asked and I’ll never forget his reply- “I don’t have any answers.”
And yet he continues to ask.
I am certain he would classify me as a “white nationalist” because I happen to prefer a European/Western values society to all others for myself and my family. I can’t imagine why that is so disturbing to people, but clearly it is. Fred hates that people generalize about Latinos but has zero problem with doing it to Whites who aren’t self-hating, even though he clearly feels the same way in virtually every essay he writes. As a latinophile he has a horse in the race and it troubles him that not everyone else feels the same way.
So he poses a question-
“What do you recommend doing with, about, for, or to the tens of millions of legal Latinos? What specifically, and how do you propose doing it?”
The USA is big, really, really big. The old system of colonies gave way to individual states, which in turn were conquered by a much more powerful Federal government. There has been flux in our shape and size and political and social arrangements since our conception and there is no earthly reason we can’t alter it again if it best serves our long term interests. Regionalization, balkanization, reservations, etc are all options that not only might satisfy this problem, they’ve got a historical precedent. The US government has participated in and been party to the break-ups of many a sovereign nation in the past, the redrawing of historical borders, the dissolution of countless democratically elected governments all in the name of making the world a better place or helping resolve conflicts and end age old animosities. Why not here? I know that a lot of Latinos would jump at the chance for their reconquista of Aztlan, so what harm would it do to allow it? Imagine if there were a confederation of ethnic states or regions within the old confines of the USA that maximized the potential of each particular group while providing for the common defense of all? We all know that terms like “white flight” and “gentrification” are the same kind of dog whistles as “ghetto” and “barrio” when describing parts of American cities. People prefer, in general, the familiar. There’s nothing inherently wrong in wishing to be among your own kind and if the kind of massive multicultural policies of the past half century had been absent, most of the social issues related to friction and violence would not exist today. For those who simply cannot exist without the excitement and vibrancy of living among the others and away from their own kith and kin, we could always ensure urban centers remain as vast melting pots as long as there is room far away where Amish can continue to be Amish, English, English, etc. Who could possibly find fault in that kind of a solution? Why must everyone live exactly as we’re told if we don’t want to? How is that not tyrannical and oppressive and anti-human at its core?
Fred did the right thing by not giving me any answers, he forced me to look for them myself and even if he is still perplexed and confused- which I doubt very much- I’m sure he could come up with even better ones than I.
HF, I asked a guy at work how to operate a forklift, he gave me a few directions but let me figure out the rest. It’s the best way to learn.
The best thing I learned in school was Anna’s comment that, once people make a mistake, they come back with a willingness to learn.
Captain Reese never gave me an answer but simply looked at me when I asked him how he gave up drinking. It took me less than 5 years to find out on my own.
Clever trick, fred, “white nationalists, let’s just call them nationalists”.
What do you propose doing with the tens of millions of legal latinos? Fred Reed. I can answer that. NOTHING. They are americans. How about we leave them alone, and let them live their lives, and never speak of them again. Like we used to.
I think our old buddy Fred is getting nervous about being a gringo in Mexico during a Trump presidency.
I doubt that, Vaschka. Mexicans love Gringos.
In many cases people in the U. S. illegally are due to unfortunate circumstances and so they enter the U.S. and some low life economic traitor hires them for sub standard wages to cheat every angle they can may they die a slow miserable death and the wealth accumulated be confiscated to reimburse American taxpayers for the welfare and other unemployment benefits paid to Americans . Yes that’s right FUCK YOU AND YOUR FAMILY TOO ! Illegals must be deported end of story those who profit from illegals need to be punished harshly . No you cannot deport 11 million but start with one than two and so on . Or lay off all those Feds that are paid to stop it and let them stay
Wow, talk about name-calling. Why not say race-traitor? Why stop at economic traitor?
I guess you know better than he does about how to spend his money.
We are fast approaching a dictatorship with all the petite dictators around.
I’m not sure an all-white society would function if zealots like you have any say.
I recall a comedian’s comment that if a vaporizing gun was invented, there soon would be no one left on earth.
I don’t know. I guess if you configure your population to what Brazzil or Mexico is . You will become Brazzil or Mexico.
In other words, if the value of a nations currency is based on the productivity of its citizens, then the dollar won’t fetch as much but manufacturing for export will become more competitive.
So , I say let them come and fire of the smoke stacks on the factories once again. I’ll be dead in a a couple of decades anyway.
Mark, your a dumbass. You don’t even know how to spell Brazil. If we valued the dollar to your IQ we’d be on par with the Zimbe.
Fred can suck a large root IMO, he married a Mexican and he has been on his soapbox ever since. Yak…Yak…whites….Yak…Yak.
Fred get over it mmkaaay.
Everyone always seems to miss the root of the problem. The Federal Reserve creates money out of thin air to loan to the Federal Government at interest. Then the corrupt politicians spend that money on all sorts of things. Many of which are not in the best interests of the American people. But they do it, since they don’t work for the American people. They work for the banks and big corporations. Once you understand that, the system makes a lot more sense.
Anyone ever read Civil War II?
The author fought in Yugoslavia during the war and came back only to see the same problems in the US. He believes the US will break down into a series of ethnic enclaves and at least 2-3 major racial regions. He figured the Dirty South would become a black country, the midwest, northwest, and some of the northeast would be a white country, and the southwest might become a hispanic country. He figured all the armories and police stations would be raided to supply the racial militias, leading to vast 20-40 mile-wide dead zones between each enclave, the distance being roughly the reach of both sides’ artillery.
With Black Thugs Matter stating they want to create their own black USA in the south, it’s obvious which direction we’re drifting.
I suspect that many Americans like me are sick of being lectured about our white nationalism, nationalism, populism, racism, and any other pejorative -ism when all we simply ask is that our immigration laws be enforced.
As usual in these types of lectures, the difference between legal and illegal is a complete non-issue.
A friend asked me to tag along on a two-week excursion to Maine. I am experiencing day 10 of serious culture shock. 95% of the people around me are Caucasians, unlike home in SoCal where I am part of the minority. It feels strange, and the taco I ate wasn’t quite right.
Black tantrums matter:
LMAO! http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ohio-judge-sends-lawyer-to-jail-for-wearing-%e2%80%98black-lives-matter%e2%80%99-pin-in-court/ar-BBuItfl?li=BBnbfcL
Ohio judge sends lawyer to jail for wearing ‘Black Lives Matter’ pin in court
Gayle – Same thing in New Zealand. When I first moved over I was amazed at sll the white people in servuce jobs such as the grocery stores, McDonald’s, etc. etc. There are quite a few Asians of various types (I think they are about 8% of the population) and people who can claim they are Maori (a large junk of which are actually mostly while genetic) about 15% but what struck me was the balance of people doing all types of jobs, sort of like it should be. The over whelming majority are very friendly too!