No Lifeboats

ejolt.org

QE, ZIRP, NIRP, helicopter money and all the other government and central bank hijinks have only one real purpose.

Guest post by Robert Gore at Straight Line Logic

Who has the most to gain from low and negative interest rates? Obviously debtors. The world’s biggest debtors are governments, with the US government number one. Debt today is like a listing ship. The objective of governments is to get themselves to the part of the ship that’s highest out of the water—the bridge—and cram everyone else below decks, submerged. The ship will sink, but governments and their cronies will let the other passengers drown before they breathe their last.

The real purpose—the only one that matters—of governments and central banks’ machinations since the financial crisis has been to finance governments. The world stood on the edge of the debt contraction abyss. Debt had reached an unsustainable level. Economies could no longer bear the load of interest payments and principle repayment. The marginal value of most debt, particularly that which funded consumption, had gone clearly negative. Even the value of debt incurred to fund “investment” was dicey, since much of that investment was actually speculation in disguise: house flipping, leveraged mortgage security arbitrage, share buybacks, and the like. The financial crisis was the iceberg rending the hole in the hull. Since then, the hole has only grown.

The bridge knows the vessel is taking on water and sinking. Sovereign debt has been monetized and interest rates driven to subzero so governments can buy themselves a little more time. Savers and those living off of fixed income investments were steerage, the first to be sacrificed. For them, the future of diminished consumption that everyone says is inevitable—but nobody seems to believe will ever happen—has arrived. They’ve been told to go to the hold and await further instructions while the central bank pumps bail away, but they’re up to their necks in cold, fast-rising water.

Chest deep and next to be sacrificed are aggregate pools of savings—pension funds and insurance companies. They have to generate a return and cannot survive if they receive no interest income on their bond investments. Underfunded pensions have thrown states, municipalities, and Puerto Rico into financial turmoil. The rates of return they had assumed, in most cases 7 percent or greater, are unavailable in any kind of prudent investment. Imprudent investments offer higher returns, but reluctance to embrace them is rational given multiple crashes in junk bond, equity, and real estate prices since the turn of the century. Insurance companies can at least raise their rates, but in many cases pension contributions are fixed by either law or contract, and can’t be changed without political push back from beneficiaries and other interested parties. Taxpayers are balking at calls to increase their support.

Mis-priced interest rates are also submerging the real economy. The artificial rate distortion produced by central banks’ cheap debt policies has led to malinvestment, glutted markets for both goods and services, and deflationary pressures that will be fully uncorked when debt finally contracts. The return on real investment has followed interest rates, it’s close to zero. The long-term trend rate of growth follows the real return on investment, so it too is falling towards zero (even by suspect official government reckonings) as the burden of servicing the mounting debt load rises.

When the economy gives up the ghost, it will be akin to the flooding of the crew’s quarters. There will still be a few high and dry on the bridge, but the ship cannot function without a crew. Washington and Wall Street are mostly high and dry, but it’s only a matter of time before the surge reaches them. Today’s anemic growth rates have been dragged down by debt. When they finally sport a negative sign (honestly accounted for, some—Europe’s, Japan’s, Russia’s and Brazil’s, et al.—already do), more debt will simply hasten the ship’s final plunge.

Expanding debt has allowed developed country sovereign bond and equity markets to reach record highs. Both, ultimately, are dependent on the real economy, so on many measures the divergence between financial asset prices and economic metrics has reached record extremes. By GAAP accounting or even by Wall Street’s preferred “adjusted” earnings, the stock market is trading at historically high multiples. Sovereign bond prices, which are the inverse of yields (higher prices equal lower yields), are at all time highs since negative yields are all time low yields.

Officially measured developed countries’ growth rates are trending to 1 percent, which is a statistical adjustment away from zero or negative growth. Most of that so-called growth is simply the debt-enabled pulling of future demand forward, which leads to less growth in the future. Cheap debt has blown up unsustainable bubbles in autos, student lending, and the housing market. Corporations have embarked on a borrowing spree, but unlike governments and central banks, they can’t manufacture fiat debt to repay their debts. Notwithstanding infinitesimal interest rates, credit quality has deteriorated to the worst level since the third quarter of 2009, and the default rate is climbing.

Cold water laps at the toes of the financial cronies. There will be more QEs, more ZIRP and NIRP, and inevitably helicopter money, but not because of any of the transparently specious reasons given for these quackeries. That includes the “cynical” one that they’re trying to keep stock and sovereign debt markets high and dry. Eventually stock markets will be sacrificed as the gap between stock prices versus earnings and economic performance grows ever wider and markets are asked to capitalize losses, not dwindling profits. Sovereign debt markets will be the last to go, because they can be supported by an endless supply of central bank fiat debt.

The cynical aren’t cynical enough. The quackeries will continue because they are the only way governments carrying unsustainable loads of debt and unfunded liabilities can be financed. It will not stop when economies improve because economies aren’t going to improve, they’re going to get worse. Look at Japan, which has journeyed the farthest down this road. Its central bank finances the government, buying all the government’s fiat debt with its own fiat debt. Just as the rest of the world’s economies are following Japan’s into zero and negative growth, they will follow its lead in finance. Sovereign debt and central bank debt exchange are all the potentates have to keep their heads above water a little longer.

Their cure is the disease. It is telling that nobody is talking about debt during the presidential campaign. Why stir up trouble? The candidates know that debt will sink the economy, and they’ve known so since at least 2008. It’s easier to find other economic scapegoats. Talking about debt would be like the bridge announcing over the public address system that the ship is sinking, the passengers are going to die, and all emergency measures will be directed towards keeping those on the bridge alive longer than everyone else. They can’t even tell the doomed to man the lifeboats. There are none.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
63 Comments
Doug
Doug
  Robert Gore
July 24, 2016 10:36 pm

Robert Gore, that was fantastic!

Rise Up
Rise Up
  Robert Gore
July 25, 2016 9:31 am

Good write-up! When is the dam gonna break?

[imgcomment image[/img]

susanna
susanna
  Robert Gore
July 25, 2016 6:07 pm

Mr. Gore,
Regarding any comments that your essay is mundane or
overly simple: Analogies can be powerful teaching tools,
and allow people to use several learning styles at once.
Some people have gone down the road of discovery and
research for years, and still there are more discoveries to
be made. An essentially moral people can not imagine the
levels of corruption, global manipulation, greed, and disregard
for human life and dignity that exist. People want to believe they
have enough intelligence, knowledge, and sophistication to
allow for easy understanding. I think the basic morality issue
gets in the way of truly understanding the depths of evil that are
manifest. Sort of, “the more you know, the more you realize how
little you know.” (attributed to ?) That would be me, and others.
Please continue to be a light in the darkness.
Suzanna

rhs jr
rhs jr
July 24, 2016 12:18 pm

There is no lifeboat (real money backed by gold and silver) at the Treasury because the Elite leased the real gold to themselves and then sold it. They want you to believe their Gold ETFs are actually a commodity as good as gold. Like the SS Trust Fund’s Locked Box kitty of money for hard times, it’s all gone; replaced by US Treasury Bonds which they want you to believe are as good as gold. The only gold the government has are Goldbricks.

starfcker
starfcker
July 24, 2016 12:20 pm

Well, thank you for thanking us, Robert. Some funny stuff. I was just watching a little Peter Schiff clip last night, he was walking through different possible scenarios concerning the debt. Trump does talk about the debt a little, but I think, like a lot of things, he simply has to stay vague on the front side of the election. This is a subject that I believe will be front and center in the spring. Here’s the Schiff clip.

RT Rider
RT Rider
  Robert Gore
July 24, 2016 1:29 pm

You’re right that TPTB will pull out all the stops. But of course, they’ve been doing that for almost my entire adult life (I’m 60). This experiment has being ongoing in it’s present form for 45 years, and the ink wasn’t dry on the Breton Woods deal in 1944 when we started chiseling on it. So all-in-all, this fraud has been going on for quite some time.

The fact is we have entered the transition zone, where outcomes are now unpredictable, like when laminar flow turns turbulent. As Taleb might say, we’re in the fractal probability zone. They might continue on, or they might blow up tomorrow. Might own opinion is that it falls apart rather soon.

Homer
Homer
  RT Rider
July 24, 2016 2:31 pm

For those non engineers or plumbers, think of a pipe that carries water to your kitchen faucet. When all the streams of water molecules in the pipe travel parallel to each other it is called Laminar Flow. But…At the place where the water meets the pipe the flow slows down and any irregularities on the surface of the pipe causes the water molecules to tumble much like boulders in a river causes turbulence. That is called Turbulent flow.

By the way turbulent flow can be predicted, you only need to have all the information and model to make the prediction. That is probably beyond a super computer. It is not like the Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle.

Grog
Grog
  Robert Gore
July 24, 2016 1:58 pm

Robert,
I believe you are so correct: “but I think we’ll all be amazed by how far the powers go to forestall that outcome.”

I call it the “death-throes of those who seek power over others.”
If I had a better pithy quote, I would use it, however, most of those seem so hackneyed today.

But, I can say that maybe this time they can eat cake.

Thanks, for the post.

Robert Gore
Robert Gore
  Grog
July 24, 2016 2:01 pm

Grog, Thank You.

OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn
  Robert Gore
July 24, 2016 9:57 pm

“The financial crisis was the iceberg…”

Just a point of fact Robert, an iceberg floats with only 10% of it’s mass above water.
A perfect metaphor showing just how big the debt problem is – that we can see!

The debt implosion and subsequent financial explosion will be epic! Really historic.

kokoda
kokoda
  starfcker
July 24, 2016 1:27 pm

The Schiff vid was good. IMO, cuz it is not just the U.S. Gov’t, it is also the individual state gov’ts with their unpayable promises; it is also all of Europe – that any restructuring or defaults will be organized among most countries and will probably involve a common currency with the UN involved (maybe).

A default/restructure by the U.S. alone will create absolute chaos in the world.

Homer
Homer
  kokoda
July 24, 2016 5:34 pm

Chaos, Hell yes! The wheels are coming off the bus. Of course, it’s worse if you are driving the printing presses at 150 mph rather than 10 mph. But…You only have three choices, try and keep the wheels on the bus (a failing strategy), hyper- inflate ( do you really want to make the Chinese mad, they have nuclear weapons, you know), or renege on the debt (a haircut? Do you really want to make the Chinese mad, they have nuclear weapons, you know). That’s it. If you think of another way, a Nobel Prize awaits you.

Peter Schiff laid it out correctly. In other words, America, you’re in a ‘hell of a fix”.

HiLlARy said, “I know were f**ked. Let’s blame it on Trump and the Republicans. Besides Bill and I have stolen enough.” The foregoing may not be true except for the stolen part.

Stucky
Stucky
July 24, 2016 12:26 pm

Robert Gore

Thank you for taking the time to write this original post. Thank you for your helping Jim out on this hot Sunday. Thank you for the ship analogy, otherwise I wouldn’t have known what the hell you’re talking about. Thank you for writing a financial article and not including a bunch of fucking charts. Lastly, thank you for being you, a terrific addition to TBP.

P.S. Thank you for not thanking me for thanking you. I know it’s just killing you to not say thank you. Stay strong. Don’t do it. Don’t!

kokoda
kokoda
  Stucky
July 24, 2016 1:11 pm

Stucky……..I like charts. BUT. There is a lot of purposeful deception in charts for those pushing an agenda, especially if that is a government agenda – pay attention to the y-scale.

Homer
Homer
  Stucky
July 24, 2016 2:36 pm

Stucky–who put a nickle in you?

Grog
Grog
  Homer
July 24, 2016 3:42 pm

Damn Homer, don’t be cheap, at least give ’em a dime an’ a napkin.

Col. Bunny
Col. Bunny
  Stucky
July 25, 2016 6:24 am

Thank you for everything.

Mace
Mace
July 24, 2016 12:48 pm

Great article. I may make my students read this when the semester start next month. Reminds me of the following joke (I live in California):

Q: What’s the difference between California and the Titanic?
A. The passengers on the Titanic didn’t vote to hit the iceberg.

Grog
Grog
  Mace
July 24, 2016 2:06 pm

Q: Why do all the trees in Arizona lean west?
A: California Sucks

iconoclast421
iconoclast421
July 24, 2016 1:14 pm

I disagree that debtors have the most to gain from negative rates. It is speculators that have the most to gain. People think that because a bond carries a negative rate, it means you are paying money to hold it. This is technically true, but it misses the point. The point is that the bond is still increasing in value, despite the negative rate. Any decrease in rate is equivalent to an increase in price. Speculators are able to sell these bonds, and pile the profits into other bonds or even into stocks (when the indicators flip to bullish). Negative rates are done merely to generate profits for wall street banks. It is just a continuation of the same racket.

Homer
Homer
  iconoclast421
July 24, 2016 3:15 pm

iconoclast421–Of course the debtor have the most to gain from negative interest rates. Who are the biggest debtors? Governments, Banks, and Corporations to name a few. They most certainly benefit from negative rates as it prolongs Nirvana and not the realization of insolvency. If rates were 7% most wouldn’t be able to pay the interest without devaluing the currency (default).

Value is a multi faceted term that really dependent on demand and scarcity. It is purely subjective.
Yes, a bond does increase in price for the bond holder if interest rates decline as the bond pays a higher rate of return than currently issued bonds. BUT and that is a big but, there still has to be a demand for the bond. No demand and the value falls whether or not the bond pays a higher interest rate. What is the value of a bond that pays 15% that you know is going to default and you lose your principle? I’m sure that there are those who will play it up to the final bell. I hope they’re lucky.

Bonds can be decimated in an Hyper-inflation [default] just like any other credit instrument.

What creates a demand for a bond is that you are going to get your principle back, in other word the promise based upon ” the full faith and credit of the United States government”, and that’s looking bleaker every day.

Just sayin’.

Homer
Homer
  iconoclast421
July 24, 2016 3:27 pm

iconoclast421–The great Dr. Franz Pick said, ” There was never a time that governments paid back a bond in the same value (purchasing power) of money in which the bond was purchased.”

NEVAH!!!

The only thing that make a bond a reasonable purchase is if the bond is devaluing less than any other investment. You can take that to the bank.

It’s NOT the nominal value of the currency that counts, but the purchasing power of the currency that counts!

Grog
Grog
  Homer
July 24, 2016 4:14 pm

WOW, ain’t that the truth.
Breath of fresh air.

Stubb
Stubb
  Homer
July 24, 2016 7:03 pm

I believe Dr. Pick knows.

subwo
subwo
  Homer
July 25, 2016 8:18 pm

So true. My son purchased his first car this past weekend. He opted for an 84 month loan at the dealership. I told him that if he refinances with his credit union and pay 25 bucks more a month he could pay it off one year early and save over two grand in interest. He said that after watching the movie “The Big Short” it made more sense to have to pay out less now as the value of the money wouldn’t be worth as much when he paid it back. Smart man, he is selling back our Honda Element to us we gave him as a graduation gift (it was 7 years old by then). He offered a family discount but mom said we will pay private party KBB value.

Homer
Homer
July 24, 2016 2:51 pm

OK. RG! You said, “… more debt will simply hasten the ship’s final plunge.” Look debt has been used to excess it’s trite and shifts the damage in the economy to the people incurring the debt, student, home owners, car buyers, in other words, those who accumulate debt. Governments excepted, of course.

I use the opposite side of the coin, CREDIT. “…more [CREDIT] will simply hasten the ship’s final plunge.” Credit shifts the blame for the damage in the economy to those who provide credit, the banking system, where the blame should rightfully be.

Remember when the bankers point a finger at the debtor, three fingers are pointing back at the creditor.

When you see debt in print, think credit.

Gator
Gator
July 24, 2016 2:59 pm

One important thing that you didnt really get into is the massive corporate debt. One of the key reasons markets are so high is because of stock buybacks. With ZIRP, its never been cheaper for large multinational corporations to borrow money, and they are doing so. They are borrowing massive amounts of money to buy back their own stock, which is at or near record highs, issuing bonds to do so. While I don’t believe we are looking at higher interest rates any time soon(the opposite is more likely), eventually they are going to run out of ammo. What happens then?

It will be curious to see what happens when the buybacks have reached their limit. It will also be curious to see what the average investor does when they see their investment portfolio take a 40-50% hit for the third time is less than 20 years.

As far as a lifeboat, precious metals and property are about the only things available. Eventually the fed will succeed in destroying the remaining value of the dollar, and if past examples are an indication of how this will play out, the stock market doesn’t keep up with that kind of inflation. Land is always good to have, but the biggest hang up for me on land is that you can never truly own it, as the government always has a claim on it, and is always the real owner. That leaves gold and silver. My only advice to trying to people is doubt about the future is to save some money in PMs. They will always have value, you can hold them in your hand. Its the only way I know to preserve some wealth for whatever there is on the other side.

Paul
Paul
July 24, 2016 3:43 pm

The more I read of this here and on other sites, the more it all makes sense. The difficulty, for me, is to alert/persuade/enlighten family/friends/coworkers of what is coming without sounding like Chicken Little.
Also, it’s hard to know exactly how to prepare. How many weapons/ammo is enough? Food? Water? Adequately prepared shelter? Provision for family?
And to what end? When the stinky stuff really gets all over the fan blades I don’t think there is an adequate level of prep. It will go on for years. Anarchy will be an ugly and indiscriminate thing

Homer
Homer
  Paul
July 24, 2016 4:14 pm

Paul forget it, I’ve been trying to educate my family and friends for 40 yrs all to no avail. I stop wasting my time and devoting my time to more productive pursuits. They all believe tomorrow is going to be like today.

History channel had on a show called “After Armageddon”. It was what happens to a civilization when a disaster strikes. It was about a pandemic, from China of course! Damn those sneaky Chinese. But, it could well apply to a monetary collapse of biblical proportions.

Have your family watch that 1 1/2 hr show. If that doesn’t wake them up, they’re brain dead. All you preppers should watch it too. It will give you an idea of what could actually happen in a catastrophic collapse of civilization which is what a monetary collapse, today, would be.

Not to be watched by the faint of heart.

Rise Up
Rise Up
  Homer
July 25, 2016 9:55 am

“I’ve been trying to educate my family and friends for 40 yrs all to no avail. I stop wasting my time and devoting my time to more productive pursuits. They all believe tomorrow is going to be like today.”
——-
That shows that tomorrow was like yesterday for 4 decades. And also proves why people can’t grasp any impending doom. (Until it hits them in the back of the head.)

Grog
Grog
  Paul
July 24, 2016 4:19 pm

Anarchy is not the same thing as chaos.

Homer
Homer
  Grog
July 24, 2016 5:55 pm

Grog–They’re certainly spelled differently.

Anarchy–
1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control:
Synonyms: chaos

Chaos–
1. a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.
2. any confused, disorderly mass.
Synonyms: anarchy

I guess an absence of governmental control would be a lack of organization or order or have I got that wrong? hmmm.

Col. Bunny
Col. Bunny
  Grog
July 25, 2016 6:44 am

Anarchy that libertarians like to talk about is great until the gal from BLM arrives. Or the welfare queen. Or the guy who’s a member of the NBP. Or other natural born takers.

Homer
Homer
  Paul
July 24, 2016 6:11 pm

Paul my biggest fear is somebody pushing the big red button.

Col. Bunny
Col. Bunny
  Homer
July 25, 2016 7:05 am

They already did. The one marked “Mass immigration.”

Others: “Judicial tyranny”; “Abandonment of the Constitution”; “Multiculturalism”; “Public-sector unions”; “Income tax”; “Universal franchise”; “Civil rights”; “Affirmative action”; “Crony capitalism”; “Republican cowardice”; “Globaloney”; “Neoconservativism”; “Vote fraud”; “Central bank”; “Media monopoly”; “Political correctness”; “Government schools”; “Keynesianism”; “Religion of Peace”; “Western cowardice”; “Feminism”; “Homohystera”; and “Socialism.”

Homer
Homer
July 24, 2016 4:02 pm

Gator you’re wrong! I had a good reply for you but it got deleted by my ‘fat fingers’. I hate when that happens.

fear & loathing
fear & loathing
July 24, 2016 4:18 pm

if i were trump i would mention herbert hoover and remind people this is not my baby. obama claims all is well, if bottom falls out jan 20 it is the donald’s baby. the fed and yellen trying their best to hold it together till then, one problem obamacare resets on 1nov.

Homer
Homer
  fear & loathing
July 24, 2016 5:01 pm

It seems that the progressive liberals (Demos) botch thing up and when the SHTF is about to happen, get a Republican in office to take the fall.

Hoover actually did the correct thing and if given time the ship of state would have righted itself. FDR just prolonged the depression with all his meddling in the economy. The war didn’t get us out of the depression it was all the rationing and renewed faith in America by winning the war and the lifting of rationing that lead to the boom from 1945 to 1960. The fact that Europe was devastated and was our biggest market for our goods helped immensely.

Today, the internet, where real news is published daily, the people won’t be so easily fooled by letting a Republican take the fall. The people will read the true account of who caused the economic collapse, what happened to our jobs, and how the value of our money was stolen from us.

The internet is where there’s a free exchange of ideas. Knowledge will shine a light on the evil machinations of government and those who profess to lead us.

P.S. War is just a bigger example of Frédéric Bastiat’s “Broken Window Fallacy”.

The opportunity cost of war!!!

Col. Bunny
Col. Bunny
  Homer
July 25, 2016 7:17 am

Hoover was as much an interventionist as FDR. He persuaded business to keep wages high, thus further stressing business and preventing the healthy corrections that made Harding’s (?) hands off approach to the recession in the 20s a success.

This may need work but the point is that Hoover was not a hands off guy.

Rise Up
Rise Up
  Homer
July 25, 2016 9:58 am

“It seems that the progressive liberals (Demos) botch thing up and when the SHTF is about to happen, get a Republican in office to take the fall. ”
——–
The opposite happened when Obummer took office in 2009 after the crash of ’08.
And he made things worse…

Unsustainable
Unsustainable
July 24, 2016 5:09 pm

RG says: “The cynical aren’t cynical enough.” and “Their cure is the disease.”
__________________

Printed Cash = Digital Debt. So what?

Cheer up man! The stock market is up. Life is good.

And like Helen Keller once said: “The best and most beautiful things in this world cannot be seen or even heard, but must be felt with the heart.”

Unsustainable
Unsustainable
  Unsustainable
July 24, 2016 5:33 pm

BTW – I enjoyed the article. Thank you. I appreciate it very much.

Jim
Jim
July 24, 2016 5:44 pm

Bloomberg and the Koch brothers show their true colors today. I used to have respect for them, but really, they are just oligarchs trying to preserve their self interest at the expense of the rest of us. I have to tell you that I watched the RNC last week and really was intrigued by Peter Thiel. Its to bad Trump didn’t pick him for the VP.

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
July 24, 2016 5:49 pm

The biggest wealth transfer from one generation to the next is underway. But the banks cannot keep their grubby hands off this money. They need it for their bottom line and their yatchts in the Hamptons. By denying those who have accumulated savings and real assets any real return the government and banks are forcing Seniors to eat the principle to survive. Leaving nothing to pass to next generation.

Homer
Homer
  Rob in Nova Scotia
July 24, 2016 6:02 pm

Rob in Nova Scotia–The Seniors are our next ‘dumpster divers’. Money will reach its intrinsic value, a BIG GOOSE EGG!

They don’t call Seniors ‘the greedy generation’ for nothing. They will gladly eat their offspring.

jamesthewanderer
jamesthewanderer
  Homer
July 24, 2016 6:58 pm

Not all of us, Homer.
My Dad paid for my first degree, a B.S. in Engineering. After that, it was up to me. He left a small estate, a paid-for farm of thirty acres, some vehicles, some stuff. Mom is still living on the farm, in her 90s now.
They put most of it in a living trust, so that when Mom passes we can take our time arguing over who gets what. I doubt the arguments will get lively, though, what I got from my parents you can’t put in a bank, on a table or even value.
Now I’m scratching my head over what and how to leave to my two. They aren’t going to be rich, and they know it, but I think they’ll make it. What gripes me is the idea that the government has any role at all in my estate planning. I think I’ll try to give it to them before I go, and avoid the stupidity that way.
My in-laws are in their 80s, and starting on the last downsizing. They are giving away furniture, household goods, and so forth before moving into a “retirement community”, a planned neighborhood of other retirees of similar means and attitudes. I hope they last a good long time there.
But the best retirement plan I can recall came from Conan (actually, one of his comrades, Sigurd) (done, inaccurately, from memory of reading _Conan of the Isles_):
“Ho, I sold everything when the last child wed! Now it’s time for one last voyage, maybe for wealth and plunder, maybe for a steel sword in my guts as I board a fat merchantman’s ship, but by Ymir I will not die in bed, surrounded by weeping women and children! “

Homer
Homer
  jamesthewanderer
July 24, 2016 10:33 pm

I paid for my daughters degree, an MS in Engineering. But…I’m still kickin’ and don’t have any desire to leave as long as I can be helpful to others. My biggest challenge may be forth coming as just surviving the future may be the biggest challenge of my life.

jamesthewanderer, I don’t mean to paint all the seniors with a broad brush. Some are obviously responsible and caring people and have passed on to their children solid values tempered with loving care.

That’s the way it should be. But, many of the seniors I meet, display selfish values. What I see in politics is a display of selfish values. We as a people have been corrupted, we have been bought off. If you don’t see that you are in denial, your delusional. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt as they say.

I told my children that they don’t owe me a thing. They owe their children, not me. I believe that. I have no right to burden my children. They have their own lives to live without encumbrances from me or my generation. How else, james, would you categorize the events of today, inter-generational transfers, but from the young to the old not the way it is suppose to be.

I believe that you should pass on your wealth to your children to make their life easier. That’s the way it was always done. That’s how civilization gets ahead, improves.

But, the government thinks that when you die its theirs, Oh they give a little back but use most of it to enlarge their power and get rich. To hell with the children or grand children and not to worry, there will be someone younger to take care of you.

That’s the evil of Social Security as compared to real insurance. Social (not) Security spends it and says your kids can take care of you if they have a job. If I have a choice between Social Security and God, I choose God. He hasn’t let me down so far. I can’t say that about government

Grog
Grog
  Homer
July 25, 2016 4:01 am

Thanks Homer,
A few provisos:
All children are not the same.
Wealth is great and may be passed or not.
Talking to and listening to them is more important (I believe).
I dislike regret, but I do regret not spending more time with my children. At least they
all call me once a week, and visit often.
Values and virtues are key.
Regards

Rob in Nova Scotia
Rob in Nova Scotia
  Homer
July 24, 2016 8:18 pm

Homer

I disagree. The dumpster divers are going to be the children of those seniors. My parents and my in-laws have bought and paid for everything they own. My job is to live within my means. Be free and clear. The problem is most aren’t in my cohort. They are loading themselves down with debt because easy credit abounds. Most counting on day they get inheritance so that they can pay off notes for shit they didn’t need to buy. The theft will be complete when the banks have the land and houses and everyone else have 20 year old RV’s and cars.

Paulo
Paulo
  Rob in Nova Scotia
July 25, 2016 3:48 pm

Great article and excellent comments.

At first Homer really pissed me off because I am one of those Dads who helped out their kids….but I didn’t just buy their degrees for them. Instead, our formula was Dad pays 1/3, they had to work for their share while going to school or summers, and finance as needed/if needed. I looked at post sec as another learning experience, but I wanted it to happen so made it possible provided they had skin in the game. What I did do is give each kid a chunk of money for a down payment on a house, and did their home inspection to make sure they did not get hosed. (I am a retired carpenter). They have not missed a payment, yet. Also, I occasionally work as an unpaid apprentice for son’s business when he needs help on a job. (He is an electrical contractor).

But as both Rob and Homer pointed out, it’s hard to like the geezers who have both hands in the family cookie jar and live like kings while their kids struggle and fail. I see it, often…but people like that are no friends of mine. You see them on golf courses or driving their land yachts down the hwy.

My kids will get what we have, but hopefully it will be awhile yet.

Great article Robert.

Ouirphuqd
Ouirphuqd
July 24, 2016 6:56 pm

Whoever occupies the white house in 2017 is doomed. There are no life boats is true, but there are life jackets. When is the time to jump ship and escape the whirlpool vortex that will suck those underneath who are not far enough away?

bb
bb
July 24, 2016 9:40 pm

Robert Gore , Unlike others I thank myself for taking the time to read your wonderful articles of doom . You are welcome!!

raven
raven
July 24, 2016 10:18 pm

Is it at all desirable to repudiate the debt (declare openly that we’re bankrupt), thereby taking the medicine on “our” terms instead of waiting for the vampires to bleed us dry of every asset and resource on their terms?

starfcker
starfcker
  raven
July 25, 2016 2:52 am

Raven, you make a good (yet hotly contested point). Yes, there are people and organizations we need to fuck. They did not come into their positions honestly. All they can do is hide behind blanket scare tactics. “Absolute property rights”, full faith and credit of the united states”, “senioity of bondholders”. Someone with integrity and a lot of will can and just might start sorting this out. The republican platform now calls for reinstatement of glass-steagall. What a wonderful place to start.

Boat Guy
Boat Guy
July 25, 2016 1:09 am

Fact : average working Americans were thrown overboard 40 years ago and those that have not been thrown overboard are jumping ship . Fact the financial oligarchy that owns America now does not give a rats ass about America or Americans . They merely demand cheap labor so the illegals appear and the excuse :”Americans won’t do that work” BULL SHIT ! Americans won’t do the job for the piss poor wages both political parties support $15 per hour is fine for college kids high school kids and retired folks who just want to part time for a little mad money but full time 40 hours that is bull shit wage ! Let’s be realistic do the math and not the bull shit math an idiot think group come up with out of Washington $65 dollars per hour 40 hours per week is realistic when you must cover your own retirement health insurance mortgage or rent and you can still live some modest American Dream anything less you are fucked ! We have all been brainwashed into following the big lie and it comes from both sides and average Americans get screwed from the left or right so many just throw up their hands WTF

Col. Bunny
Col. Bunny
  Boat Guy
July 25, 2016 7:26 am

What right?

Rocky
Rocky
July 25, 2016 1:22 am

However the government paid everything last week is exactly how they will pay everything next week and in to perpetuity. If a collapse were going to happen it would have by now. Without extermination of the elite/shadow gov. reset/collapse is not possible.

AC
AC
July 25, 2016 2:21 am

They’re starting to try throwing some of the crap in their hold overboard:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-25/china-bank-to-transform-1-6-billion-of-bad-debt-into-securities

“Asset” backed securities. Sounds vaguely familiar.

Boat Guy
Boat Guy
July 25, 2016 7:28 am

There will be no end to the silly shit these band of fools will pump out look what has been done in the past 8 years TARP Troubled Asset Relief Program : translation – print or create money electronicly backed by hot air supported by turning what’s left of working Americans into endentured servants while using that currency as debt relief for the fraudulent leans created by the Wall Street investor class who under the TARP walked away with a bonus for massive fuckups and the phony debt created was transferred to those working Americans still hanging on by destroying their invested savings for everything from retirement health care or their children’s education by a devaluation of currency by over 40% and climbing . And continuing the lies concerning cost of living or inflation are near 0% while we down here in fly over country crawl under our blue poly tarp !

Stucky
Stucky
July 25, 2016 4:14 pm

On Tuesday, July 12, a huge event happened in the investing world.

But if you’re like most Americans, you probably haven’t even heard about it.

The mainstream media didn’t discuss this event much. It was too busy pointing out that the S&P 500 and Dow Jones Industrial Average have hit new all-time highs.

Meanwhile, something much bigger was happening on the other side of the world.

Today, we’ll tell you what this event was…and why it means big trouble is likely on the way for investors.

Rest of story here —- http://www.activistpost.com/2016/07/serious-economic-warning-no-one-talking.html

kaisersosa
kaisersosa
July 25, 2016 6:42 pm

another article pointing doom and gloom , this and that.. Heard it for the millionth time in the last 8 years.. over and over and over again.. Yet. while very true. As usual if it be chicken shit or just clueless,, never wants to point out the exact WHO. You cant solve a thing until that happens.. Keep spinning your wheels bitchin on msg boards, waiting for the proverbial “slaughter”. All of the author speaks was dont intentionally. If you open your eyes youll understand the BIG PLAN.. Nothing has been random. 9-11 2008 all the same “coupe” .. Rip it down with the “cure” being so beneficial to the elite and detrimental to the rest. Duhh.. Look at the big picture people !! QE and Patriot act were planned well before the “events” to trigger them. !! OPEN YOUR MINDS and at least read some of the Learned Elders of Zion. Its right there!! Save yourselves folks. Save your families. Lots of nice good people here on TBP..
Here ya go. Judge for yourself
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm
As far as our “markets” economy. 2 versus. .Pretty simple

* “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a)

* What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)

i think thats referring to the 5 trillion in QE?? What has been stolen?
Or was it the 2.3 trillion not found, or lost Rumsfeld announced on 9-10-01?