HERE WE GO AGAIN

Charlotte last night. Tulsa tonight.

(CNN)From different angles, the videos show the same scene.

An unarmed black man walks on a Tulsa, Oklahoma, road with his hands in the air. Police officers follow closely behind him as he approaches his vehicle. He stands beside the car, then falls to the ground after one officer pulls the trigger.
Now 40-year-old Terence Crutcher is dead. Crutcher’s sister is demanding that prosecutors charge the officer who shot him. And the police videos of the incident are fueling criticism about the case.
Federal, state and local authorities are investigating the Friday night shooting.
Crutcher’s family says he was waiting for help on the road after his SUV broke down.
The officer’s attorney says she was afraid Crutcher was reaching for a weapon when she opened fire. Attorney Benjamin Crump, part of the legal team representing Crutcher’s family, countered at a Tuesday news conference that Crutcher’s window was rolled up, making it unlikely he was reaching into the car.


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21 Comments
TJF
TJF
September 21, 2016 8:49 am

I distrust the newly militarized police, but if one of them gave me instructions, I think I would comply. Why walk away from them and head back to your suppossedly broken diwn vehicle? Why park your vehicle in the center of the road instead of pulling it off the side? There has to be more to the story here. Did the man want to die? In this case, I don’t see anything that tells me they shot him based on his skin color. Seems like they shot him for not complying. When you are on the business end of a gun is not the time to play games unless you are prepared to die.

Rdawg
Rdawg
  TJF
September 21, 2016 8:54 am

You know, you are so right.
Even if that guy was no threat, the simple fact that he did not immediately “comply” gives LEOs the right to take his life.
Pew, pew, pew motherfucker!!!

Rdawg
Rdawg
  Rdawg
September 21, 2016 11:44 am

Kokoda,
You fucking dumb-shit. Do you not recognize sarcasm?
I would have thought the last sentence would have made it abundantly clear, but you managed to miss it.
I even mentioned he was no threat, as you did.
Jesus H. Christ.

kokoda - Les Deplorables
kokoda - Les Deplorables
  Rdawg
September 21, 2016 3:04 pm

No, I did not recognize /s.
FYI – not the 1st time I’ve been a dumb-shit.

TJF
TJF
September 21, 2016 9:06 am

I don’t mean to imply they should kill a guy for walking to his SUV when they say stop I am just saying that is how the LEOs operate and the time to argue about whether that is how it should be is not when theyhave a gun pointed at you. Unless, of course, the goal is to die. For the record, I don’t see anything that makes me think the shooting was justified in any way. That doesn’t alter my opinion that the victim could have simply and easily chosen his actions that would’ve resulted in a different outcome.

Sonic
Sonic
September 21, 2016 9:11 am

So non-compliance is grounds for termination? If I’m sitting on the ground, and you (a cop) tell me to get up, I refuse, and you can kill me? Non-compliance, regardless of threat, is enough? If that is true then it totally eliminates peaceful non-compliance as an avenue to resist and protest unjust action on the part of the state. If you don’t have a peaceful avenue of protest then you are left with only violence…and thus will the state reap what it is sowing.

TC
TC
September 21, 2016 9:12 am

Fourth Turnings are a bitch.

Boat Guy
Boat Guy
September 21, 2016 9:15 am

It seems strange that we only hear and see blacks killed in these encounters , the odds defy the numbers . 13.3% of our population are the only ones killed like this . Something is out of whack or not reported and only black incidences are pounced on or serious racism is alive and well ! Or we have a lot of dip shit trigger happy cops ?????

Iconoclast421
Iconoclast421
September 21, 2016 9:23 am

There is no way anyone parks like that if their vehicle is having a break down. Unless they are really frickin dumb. But I assume you must have to possess a certain base level of intelligence in order to be able to afford such a vehicle.

susanna
susanna
  Iconoclast421
September 21, 2016 12:12 pm

Answer = liar loans and anyone can buy a car.

That said, the video looks bad! Cops are like badly trained
Dobermans, bite first ask questions later. A guy doesn’t
instantly “comply” = just shoot him in the back. Facts aren’t in…
true. BUT, what if the guy was having a heart attack, or a diabetic
crisis? What if he was deaf, or addled. Then again, maybe it was
a stolen hijacked car with dead people left behind. We need more
data.

General
General
September 21, 2016 10:20 am

It’s possible he had some medical event like a stroke that impaired his cognition. He could have also been drunk or on drugs. Those are clearly good reasons that a cop would be in fear of their life. Right??

Until those mobs stop rioting uncontrollably and start hanging the rogue cops that do this shit, nothing will change. Cops need to have a reason to think twice before pulling the trigger.

Smoke Jensen
Smoke Jensen
September 21, 2016 10:21 am

Notice it was the small woman who went for the shot. Fear was her trigger. Wimmuns should not be police officers, period. Not one of the men shot because not one of them perceived the same threat level that she did. Nobody in their right mind would expect a woman to grapple with a man more than twice her size, so the outcome seemed to be pre determined.
Even so, the blame rests entirely on the legislature. They create the laws that cause these outcomes.
Cops are just tools of the ruling class. They’re hammers and everything looks like a nail.
IMNSHO, the legislators should be hung from the tallest trees with the shortest rope for giving cops this kind of authoritay. Eliminate malum prohibition laws and you’ll eliminate these “justifiable” homicides.
Let the riots begin.

susanna
susanna
  Smoke Jensen
September 21, 2016 12:18 pm

I agree, it is stupid for women to be on patrol, ready
to “grapple” with bad guys. Save the women for intake,
search of women eg.

ASIG The Deplorable
ASIG The Deplorable
September 21, 2016 10:40 am

This sure smells like “suicide by cop” to me.

I don’t mean that to justify the shoot. If you notice the fourth cop to arrive didn’t feel any threat and didn’t draw his weapon.

susanna
susanna
  ASIG The Deplorable
September 21, 2016 12:20 pm

Nope, not suicide by cop. That might be true if the man
had moved toward the cops saying and doing threatening
moves.

Greg in NC
Greg in NC
September 21, 2016 12:29 pm

Good thing for cops that the “Ten Commandments” were given with exceptions for them. At least they assume they did, and they better hope they did, buried somewhere in the good book.

The whole judicial system must be exempt since daily they commit murder, steal, covet, bare false witness, and even commit adultery in exchange for not issuing a ticket. This must be the true reason the Commandments were removed from the courthouses.

I guess it’s kinda funny that not only are they above the laws they enforce, but also believe they are above God’s laws. Good luck with that!

diogenes
diogenes
September 21, 2016 12:32 pm

I agree with ASIG. This looks like the guy was going for suicide by cop or, he was looking for his 15 min of fame.

thc0655
thc0655
September 21, 2016 2:23 pm

I don’t want to “Monday morning quarterback” anyone, but based on the video I have to conclude this was a case of professional malpractice (terrible police work) and probably manslaughter. I’d have to have a lot of new information to think anything else. It’s not just a job. Some people have no business being cops. This one appears incompetent from top to bottom. It’s embarrassing. Notice that Officer Betty doesn’t even remember to turn on her car’s light bar to warn approaching motorists of the danger of two vehicles stopped on the road.

On her way to a domestic disturbance call, Officer Betty Shelby of the Tulsa, OK Police Department comes across an SUV stopped in the middle of a two lane highway and Terence Crutcher in the road on foot. In a flash Betty is out of her police vehicle and has drawn her pistol. I can’t see everything she saw and I can’t hear anything, but I can’t imagine a legitimate reason for Betty to draw her weapon. (At this early stage, she’s not claiming he had a weapon and no weapon was found, nor that he verbally threatened to kill her.) Perhaps Crutcher is acting erratically in some ways in addition to standing in the road with his car blocking both lanes. That’s reason for a cautious approach, but not to draw one’s pistol yet. Yes, the suspect could possibly have been a homicidal maniac but more likely explanations would include he was: high or drunk, having serious mental health issues, having a seizure, or having a diabetic incident. These possibilities and others like them would require the officer to have both hands empty if it became necessary to go “hands on” with the suspect and to possibly deescalate the situation. With her gun in her hand, Officer Betty has nearly shut the door on the option of going hands on, and she has escalated the suspect, herself, and the other arriving officers.

I’m assuming based on the officer’s lawyer’s comment, that Crutcher was refusing to obey Officer Betty’s commands (probably to stop walking away and to turn around). Crutcher does have his hands up while he was walking away from the officer. Should he have obeyed the officer immediately and completely? Yes. Would he still be alive now if he had? Most likely. Does that justify the poor police work and decision making that led to the shooting and death of the suspect? Absolutely not. I’ve found that the most useless phrase in the English language is: “Police! Stop!” I can’t think of even one instance in my career where I’ve used that phrase and the suspect actually stopped! Officers should expect to be ignored and disobeyed, and have a plan to deal with it that doesn’t include killing everyone who refuses to stop or obey.

Car stopped in the highway blocking both lanes. Male walking in the road, possibly the driver. Male refusing police commands and “acting erratically.” Male puts his hands in the air and starts walking back to the car’s driver’s door. Because of the potential for escape and for the suspect to access a weapon in the car, an experienced officer would not let the suspect get to the driver’s door, and reach in or get in. The officer was completely in her rights to put her hands on the suspect and physically prevent him from reaching the driver’s door, and then to pat him down for weapons. That’s what Officer Betty should have done, but didn’t. That was an “insufficient use of force” (which is common issue with police which is never talked about in public) which led directly to more bad decisions and the death of the suspect. I don’t know why Officer Betty didn’t go hands on with the suspect to keep him from reaching the driver’s door, but I can guess. 1) She had her gun in her hand and you need both hands for that kind of thing. 2) She was frightened of the much larger suspect. Why was she afraid besides the size difference? She’s a woman and therefore physically weaker. She didn’t have confidence in her hands on fighting skills. 3) She has little to no actual successful experience controlling or fighting with male suspects. 4) She’s afraid of black males in general. Officer Betty’s fear led her to at least two early mistakes that prevented her from going hands on: she had her gun in hand and didn’t reholster it, and she was waaay too far away from the suspect to get physical with him. She should’ve used force much sooner than she did, and it should have been to put hands on the suspect to stop him from reaching the driver’s door. Insufficient use of force, followed by excessive force. What a shame.

This doesn’t explain to me the timid actions of the other 3 officers who arrive before Officer Betty fires a single shot. Surely, three or four officers together would’ve had the courage to holster their pistols and go hands on with the suspect before he reached the driver’s door. However, they pile up right next to or even behind Officer Betty. The one reason I can see for the other officers not just running past Betty and grabbing Crutcher (my instinct watching the video) was the possibility of getting shot in the back by Officer Betty in an accidental friendly fire incident. She seems just like the kind of Officer to negligently shoot me in the back.

Officer Betty through her lawyer says she feared he was reaching for a weapon when he went into his pocket and when he reached into his car. I hear this explanation so many times from police who shoot a suspect when it’s not justified or when it’s a gray area that I wish we could just train every officer nationwide that “I thought he was reaching for a weapon” is completely insufficient grounds by itself for shooting a suspect. You can’t shoot until you see a deadly weapon, though if the suspect says he’s going to shoot you with this gun in the car and then reaches into the car you’d be on better legal grounds to shoot. I don’t know what policing is like in Tulsa, but nearly all the cops I know in Philadelphia assume everyone has a deadly weapon and they are going to try to kill me with it. That almost never turns out to be true but thinking it at all times keeps you on your toes and ready to respond appropriately in a split second. Anyone could be reaching for a weapon. You can’t shoot them until they get their hands on the weapon and it appears they are about to use it on you. It’s incumbent on the officer to use good tactics to keep the suspect at a disadvantage so the officer can beat him to the punch if he legitimately goes for a deadly weapon. You can’t just stand 12-15 feet away yelling at the suspect and then shoot him when he puts his hands where you can’t see them.

It’s politically correct to encourage women (and small-statured men) to become police officers. But if it wasn’t, police departments might go back to physical standards they used to have 50 years ago which required applicants to be able to handle suspects on the street with their bare hands. Some state police departments even used to require applicants to be male and at least 6′-0″ tall as two of their requirements. I know some female officers who can handle themselves on the street in a fight, but they are the rare exception. I know a male SWAT officer who is only 5’6”, 145 lbs. but he plays hockey, competes in mixed martial arts competitions and is ferocious in a fight. Most women and small-statured men are at a severe disadvantage in struggles with suspects when weapons are not appropriate. Women and small men are quicker to resort to their weapons, more likely to stand back and let other officers do the dirty work, or simply manage to show up last to every dangerous-sounding incident. If we had standards that required applicants and academy recruits to demonstrate serious hands on fighting skills, I think there would be fewer police shootings (justified or unjustified). Of course, departments would have even more trouble achieving minimum staffing levels and being appropriately diverse. So incidents like this are what we have to live with. Sigh.

I also wish the public was aware of how many police deadly force incidents turn out to be clearly justified, so that disturbing incidents like this would be understood as an anomaly. But since we don’t, I guess we’ll have an officer or officers somewhere soon injured or killed in retaliation for this. I hope whoever the officers are are some of those racist bad ones who use excessive force rather than one of the majority who is completely professional.

Good background on this incident:

Officer Betty Shelby: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

The Taser discharge and Officer Betty’s single gunshot occur so close together it’s possible her finger was on the trigger and she twitched when the Taser went off. Cops who are issued Tasers are trained that it sounds a little like a gunshot and to keep their fingers off the triggers of their firearms to avoid just such an unconscious twitch response and a negligent discharge. They are trained, if possible, to yell “Taser! Taser! Taser!” before firing the device. Did I mention incompetence and that most people are not cut out to be cops? But maybe using the Taser in this instance wasn’t even the best choice for the Officers. Tasers have revolutionized police use of force. Studies have indicated that departments who issue them along with the requisite training see an 85% reduction in suspect injuries requiring medical treatment and an 80% reduction in officer injuries. That’s dramatic. Without a Taser, officers are faced with physically controlling a suspect using hands on skills to gain leverage (partially) and inflicting enough pain to gain “voluntary” compliance (mostly). That’s how suspects and officers get hurt hundreds of times every day across the country. Even the mere appearance of an officer with a Taser in his/her hand often has the ability to get violent suspects, even mentally ill ones, to calm down and comply with simple commands (because of the weapon’s reputation). This is especially true of suspects who have been Tasered before: no one wants “to ride the lightning” twice, even the psychotic ones. Unfortunately, the Taser works so well it is prone to over use and it seems to tell officers you don’t need to have fighting skills and physical fitness any more because you can just use your Taser. Training states that using a Taser is a higher level use of force than hands on and should only be used when hands on has not worked or would be inappropriate to even try. Furthermore, there are plenty of instances in which the Taser (for several potential reasons) fails to work and the officer has to go back down the force continuum to hands on or up the force continuum to the baton or the firearm. In my opinion, Tasers are a fantastic tool for police work that eliminates thousands of injuries and a not small number of deaths every year. However, like any good tool it can be misused and doesn’t always work as intended.

Lysander The Deplorable
Lysander The Deplorable
September 21, 2016 4:10 pm

His fault, the cop’s fault, nobody’s fault…….this kneegro’s family just got rich. After a six week paid vacation the cop will be exonerated. The Crutcher relatives will be shopping for new cars and bling and the American shitshow will move onto another incident in some other place.

anarchyst
anarchyst
September 21, 2016 5:40 pm

Here are “police” practices that deserve to be exposed:

#1. During a traffic stop, the police officer will touch the back of your car. The reason for this “touch” is that, quite often, the police officer will have a small quantity of narcotics (marijuana or cocaine) on him (in his hand) that he will rub on the car in order to help “justify a search”. When the dog is brought in, it will react to “cues” from its handler as well as the drug residue on the vehicle and help “justify a search”. This tactic is mostly used against young people. Drugs can also be “planted” on a “suspect”.
The “touch” used to be a way for police officers to “prove” that they had an interaction with a citizen, but no more . . .

#2. Most (if not all) cops possess a “throwdown” weapon. This “helper” is obtained from a criminal who is then “let go” without his weapon and is always used to justify a questionable police situation and to “sanitize” a “crime scene to absolve police on the scene of criminal police behavior.

#3. If you are in the back of a police car, LIE DOWN on the seat. Police use the concept of “screening” to abuse their unwilling “passenger”. This involves, driving at high rates of speed, violent turns and other antics to get the passenger to “hit the screen” separating the front from the back with his face. Hence the act of “screening”.

#4. If you are being handcuffed, quite often the police officer will wrench you arm behind you, forcing you to “turn around”. Another “trick” is a foot to the instep, forcing the individual to involuntarily “pull away”. The officer will then add a charge of “assault” to whatever other charges they concoct against you (just for being forced to turn around). They “pile on” charges, hoping you will plead guilty to at least one.

Remember–NEVER CONSENT TO SEARCH . . . You must be polite, but firm in your refusal. You can state that “you NEVER consent to searches” as well as using these “magic” words–“am I free to go?” The police officer MUST answer your question . . . If you are being detained and an illegal search takes place, you have legal recourse.

Remember–police are not your friends . . .

That being said, not all “law enforcement” is criminal, but the “thin blue line” that they so jealously guard (and “look the other way” when rogue cops abuse their authority) does much to taint ALL “law enforcement” with having ulterior motives.

anarchyst
anarchyst
September 21, 2016 5:47 pm

Ever notice that police unions are “fraternal”? This should tell you something. The “thin-blue-line” is a gang, little different than street gangs–at least when it comes to “covering-up” their questionable and quite often, illegal and criminal behavior.
In today’s day and age, “officer safety” trumps de-escalation of force. This, in part, is due to the militarization of the police along with training in Israeli police tactics. This becomes a problem, with the “us vs. them” attitude that is fosters, along with the fact that Israel is a very different place, being on a constant “war footing”, and by necessity, its police tactics are very different.
There are too many instances of police being “given a pass”, even when incontrovertible video and audio evidence is presented. Grand juries, guided by police-friendly prosecutors, quite often refuse to charge those police officers who abuse their authority.
Police officers, who want to do the right thing, are quite often marginalized and put into harms way, by their own brethren…When a police officer is beating on someone that is already restrained while yelling, “stop resisting” THAT is but one reason police have a “bad name” in many instances…this makes the “good cops” who are standing around, witnessing their “brethren in blue” beating on a restrained suspect, culpable as well…
Here are changes that can help reduce police-induced violence:
1. Get rid of police unions. Police unions (fraternities) protect the guilty, and are responsible for the massive whitewashing of questionable police behavior that is presently being committed.
2. Eliminate both “absolute” and “qualified” immunity for all public officials. This includes, prosecutors and judges, police and firefighters, code enforcement and child protective services officials, and others who deal with the citizenry. The threat of being sued personally would encourage them to behave themselves. Require police officers to be “bonded” by an insurance company, with their own funds. No bond= no job.
3. Any public funds disbursed to citizens as a result of police misconduct should come out of police pension funds–NOT from the taxpayers.
4. Regular drug-testing of police officers as well as incident-based drug testing should take place whenever an officer is involved in a violent situation with a citizen–no exceptions.
5. Testing for steroid use should be a part of the drug testing program. You know damn well, many police officers “bulk up” with the “help” of steroids. Steroids also affect users mentally as well, making them more aggressive. The potential for abuse of citizens increases greatly with steroid use.
6. Internal affairs should only be used for disagreements between individual officers–NOT for investigations involving citizen abuse. State-level investigations should be mandatory for all suspected abuses involving citizens.
7. Prosecutors should be charged with malfeasance IF any evidence implicating police officer misconduct is not presented to the grand jury.
8. A national or state-by-state database of abusive individuals who should NEVER be allowed to perform police work should be established–a “blacklist” of abusive (former) police officers.
9. Most people are unaware that police have special “rules” that prohibit them from being questioned for 48 hours. This allows them to “get their stories straight” and makes it easier to “cover up” bad police behavior. Police must be subject to the same laws as civilians.
10. All police should be required to wear bodycams and utilize dashcams that cannot be turned off. Any police officers who causes a dash or body cam to be turned off should be summarily fired–no excuses. Today’s body and dash cams are reliable enough to withstand harsh treatment. Body and dashcam footage should be uploaded to a public channel “on the cloud” for public perusal.
11. All interrogations must be video and audio recorded. Police should be prohibited from lying or fabricating stories in order to get suspects to confess. False confessions ARE a problem in many departments. Unknown to most people, police can lie with impunity while civilians can be charged with lying to police…fair? I think not…
12. Any legislation passed that restricts the rights of ordinary citizens, such as firearms magazine capacity limits, types of weapons allowed, or restrictive concealed-carry laws should apply equally to police. No special exemptions to be given to police. Laws must be equally applied.
Police work is not inherently dangerous…there are many other professions that are much more dangerous.
A little “Andy Taylor” could go a long way in allaying fears that citizens have of police.
That being said, I have no problem with police officers who do their job in a fair, conscientious manner…however, it is time to call to task those police officers who only “protect and serve” themselves.