Germany is coming to their senses. They have run their country the right way, while the PIIGS have lived far above their means for decades. The entire European Union rests on the back of Germany. They’ve bailed out Ireland. They’ve bailed out Greece. It looks like they are going to tell Italy to fuck off. Most people don’t realize how big Italy is. They have the 8th highest GDP in the world. Their GDP is $2 trillion. Germany’s is $3.3 trillion. Germany will bankrupt itself trying to save the Italians. Plus, Germany knows that Spain is in worse shape than Italy. They have the 12th largest economy in the world.
If Germany is balking, then European stocks will crater on Monday. Asian stocks will crater in anticipation that Europe and the US markets will collapse on Monday. The earliest indication we have is Saudi Arabia, whose market is down 5.5%.
You can bet that the phone lines are buzzing between Timmy Geithner, Bennie Bernanke and their friendly puppet master CEOs – Lloyd Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Vikrim Pandit, Ken Lewis, John Mack. These are the people trying to retain their wealth and power. They DO NOT care about you, the country, or the long term best interests of our nation. They care about their billions. This is a game to them. They are agreeing on a plan of attack to manipulate the markets on Monday.
It is highly likely that the markets will plunge at the opening as a knee jerk reaction to the S&P downgrade. The criminal Wall Street banks will then instruct their computers to buy stocks and an unbelievable rally will commence. This is supposed to pump confidence back into the investing public. CNBC will do their part and tell you to buy the fucking dip. This is all a show.
The S&P downgrade should have happened two years ago. The US is a bad long term credit. We will default by printing money and paying interest to gullible foreigners in worthless pieces of paper. The US economy is in recession. Stocks fall 40% during recessions. The wheels are coming off this bus. It doesn’t matter whether stocks finish up or down on Monday. They will be at least 30% lower in the next year. You can Buy the Fucking Dip or you can focus on the facts and the truth.
It Just Went From Bad To Far, Far Worse As Germany Says Italy Is Too Big For EFSF To Save, Refuses To Carry Euro Bailout Burden
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/06/2011 12:20 -0400
Remember when we said (yesterday) that Germany will soon balk over the fact that it is pledging its entire economy to bail out an insolvent Europe? Well, that moment has come.
Dow Jones just hitting the tape referencing Spiegel
- German Govt: Italy Too Big For EFSF To Save – Spiegel
- German Govt: Doubts Whether Tripling EFSF Would Help It Save Italy
- German Govt: Italy Must Make Savings, Reforms To Exit Crisis – Spiegel
- Italy Debt Guarantee Could Raise Doubts Over Germany’s Finances – Spiegel
- German Govt: EFSF Should Only Help Small, Mid-Size Countries – Spiegel
As a reminder, yesterday’s stopgap announcement by the ECB to expand its SMP purchases of secondary market Italian and Spanish bonds was merely as a precursor to full EFSF monetization until its comes fully online in September (or sooner) in a vastly expanded format (between €1.5 and €3.5 trillion).
If Germany is now against this, which appears to be the case, it pretty much means, well, game over.
Add the uncerainty over the unwind of the Europe rescue “gamechanger” as one of the more naive CNBC anchors said yesterday, and Monday is now guaranteed to be a bloodbath.
As for those saying China will gladly step in and fund a $5 trillion EFSF shortfall, they may want to read the following article from Reuters:
Italian Economy Minister Giulio Tremonti said on Thursday that Asian investors are reluctant to buy Italian bonds because it sees they are not being bought by the European Central Bank.
Speaking at a news conference, Tremonti also said it would be desirable for the central bank to follow the lead of the Japanese and Swiss central banks in taking expansionary steps to tackly the euro zone’s crisis.
“I note that the Bank of Japan today launched quantitative easing and the Swiss cen bank cut rates to zero, we are waiting for decisions if possible, but desirable (from the ECB),” Tremonti said.
When you talk to Asia they say: “We don’t understand what Europe is,” he continued. “The second point is that they say ‘if your central bank doesn’t buy your bonds, why should we buy them”?
P.S. Time to unwind that Bund short we suggested yesterday. In fact, if true, it is time for a big rush to safety.
John Smith says:
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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6th August 2011 at 6:39 pm
Anonymous says:
@John Smith: Please explain to me how a political force in place for all of 18 months, ie the Tea Party, has anything whatsoever to do with the debt downgrading?
Reckless behaviour by the Tea Party? Excuse me? If anything the Tea Party has been trying to get the fed.gov and the public to understand our dire financial situation!!
The “reckless behaviour” you are referring to is decades of financial mismanagement by all of our (worthless) politicians, aided and abetted by a witless and corrupt citizenry willing to live out of the pockets of their fellow witless and gullible citizens!
Dude, the debt situation has been brewing for freaking YEARS.
How old are you anyway? Like 12?
Try to keep up.
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6th August 2011 at 6:57 pm
Hope@ZeroKelvin says:
Oops, that comment above is by me,
Hope@ZeroKelvin.
A pox on WordPress.
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6th August 2011 at 6:58 pm
Goldorack says:
JSES
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6th August 2011 at 7:04 pm
Kill Bill says:
Too big to save.
Now why didnt Paulson think of that.
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6th August 2011 at 7:24 pm
Goldorack says:
fuckin scary.
I feel like if I was watching “War of the Worlds”.
I tell you come or you are going to die!
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6th August 2011 at 7:30 pm
Muck About says:
@HzK: “A pox on WordPress.” My are you being kind and gentle. I lost an entire article to WP’s editor last week and had to replace my monitor when the plastic melted. My sweetie came running in thinking I had broken a leg or something. It was “or something”..
MA
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6th August 2011 at 7:32 pm
Muck About says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIroq7BfV_0
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6th August 2011 at 7:34 pm
Anonymous says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZgBhyU4IvQ
Not Dark Yet
Shadows are falling and I’ve been here all day
It’s too hot to sleep, time is running away
Feel like my soul has turned into steel
I’ve still got the scars that the sun didn’t heal
There’s not even room enough to be anywhere
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there
Well, my sense of humanity has gone down the drain
Behind every beautiful thing there’s been some kind of pain
She wrote me a letter and she wrote it so kind
She put down in writing what was in her mind
I just don’t see why I should even care
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there
Well, I’ve been to London and I’ve been to gay Paree
I’ve followed the river and I got to the sea
I’ve been down on the bottom of a world full of lies
I ain’t looking for nothing in anyone’s eyes
Sometimes my burden seems more than I can bear
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there
I was born here and I’ll die here against my will
I know it looks like I’m moving, but I’m standing still
Every nerve in my body is so vacant and numb
I can’t even remember what it was I came here to get away from
Don’t even hear a murmur of a prayer
It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there
Copyright © 1997 by Special Rider Music
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6th August 2011 at 7:51 pm
scott says:
Yeah John Smith’s comment left a lot to be desired. Bet he doesn’t know the average maturity for British gilts is 14 years! They don’t have to roll their debt every few weeks or months as the nations that played games with their debt to ( temporarily) reduce debt service cost by issuing debt with short maturities. The US sure did that and it will blow up in our faces if rates rise. The Brits also have a government that has a plan to be in primary balance by 2015. They probably won’t be but they will be a helluva lot closer than the US.
I know Italy is a political mess but financially they are pretty close to having a primary fiscal balance right now. Their problem is past debt and slow growth but are we doing any better. You put the GSE’s debt on our balance sheet and we look like Italy with an 11 percent budget gap to close. Italy has but a 3% gap. Unless there is something hidden somewhere in the Italian finances ( and I’m no expert so there well could be) I don’t think they will blow up. Some of their banks maybe in trouble owing to Swiss franc loan to eastern europe but the Italian banking sector isn’t oversized to their economy. It may just be that speculators are taking advantage of the general fear to buy Italian debt on the cheap knowing that the ECB has to buy it up at par to avoid a collapse of the EU.
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6th August 2011 at 7:52 pm
flash says:
WP…..what hope said!
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6th August 2011 at 7:54 pm
newsjunkie says:
Has anyone ever heard of bitcoins? I just did today (from Max Keiser’s site) and want to know what others here think.
http://www.bitcoin.org/
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6th August 2011 at 8:09 pm
Thunderbird says:
Well it looks like even RE may experience a black monday when they find out what the mysterious orange goo is that is showing up in Alaska. REs doomstead may turn out to be a doomstead of a different kind. Good luck RE; hope it is not toxic.
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6th August 2011 at 8:19 pm
Buckhed says:
Well if things ride out until Friday then one of my favorite groups will be in demand .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVQKiqCZ9No&playnext=1&list=PL939B19CFEEAB292A
News…Bitcoins ..don’t trust’em. They’ve already had one crash that was blamed on hacking….I’d rather have gold or silver
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6th August 2011 at 8:26 pm
newsjunkie says:
Thanks.
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6th August 2011 at 8:28 pm
Anonymous says:
New Floating Bugout Machine Prepped and ready to go. Got my hard copy charts for Tristan da Cunha, Edinburgh of the Seven Seas laminated in Plastic courtesy of the Age of Oil. If the Orange Goo takes out the Salmon Run, I’m off to the boat ramp on the Knik River.
Bring it on, BITCHEZ!
RE
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6th August 2011 at 8:37 pm
AKAnon says:
Tbird-I am sure RE appreciates your concern, but the “goo” appeared in Kivalina, hundreds of miles from RE’s doomstead. Closer to me, but still hundreds of miles away. Still, pretty curious, and a little disturbing. I have seen similar phenomenon, which I attributed to algae in iron-rich water, but not to nearly the extent reported.
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6th August 2011 at 9:12 pm
AwholeDr says:
Wow, I’m dissappointed. Except for that douchebag “John Smith,” where is all the angst and excitement? WTF? Waiting till Sunday night I suppose? Maybe nobody is sober enough to comprehend what is going on. To refresh your alcohol-soaked brains:
1. Europe is about to implode. See Admin’s article above.
2. Criminal bankers are now supposedly on the ropes. How true this is not at first glance apparent. The credit default swaps that will come due after #1 happens will sink their leaking yachts. They may try to manipulate the stock market here for awhile, but they can’t control Europe. Outstanding CDS’s dwarf the market-cap of the S&P and Dow. The banks won’t have the money to pay them or make good. So much for TBTF banks.
3. Syria is about to explode. Syria is a whole different ball of twine than most middle eastern shitholes. They are warning Americans to exit the country ASAP. You know, the whole U.S.-Isreal thing. Very dangerous situation.
4. China is pissed over maggot-brained politicians and the debt-ceiling agreement. Too fucking bad, but Admin predicts a cyber-war with China. An excellent reason for Obama to shut down the internet, starting martial law.
5. Russia is waiting in the wings. They called us “economic parasites” this week; them is fightin’ words. Eastern Europeans are some of the most adept computer hackers on the planet, especially at stealing and gaining financial information. Do you suppose some have been recruited by Russian spooks for cyber-ops against us now that we’re weakened?
6. The U.S. is getting out of control: You can actually sense it, flash mobs, people stealing air conditioners, the populace is getting more and more blatant. Once the stock market goes down the tubes, again, and politicians use the word “bailout” even once, it will be anarchy. It won’t take much, will it?
7. Some of the articles I put up today were about Asian central banks buying gold. They are openly saying now that they are actively moving away from dollar based assets. The tipping point has been breached: the debt-ceiling fiasco. The countries that buy U.S. treasuries are now buying gold. At what point do they start dumping T-bills? Is now their chance to change or destroy the dollar as reserve currency? What better time than now? Will they take huge losses dumping treasuries just to destroy us? Why not, they’re going to be repaid in worthless dollars anyway…
8. The Fed can start printing money again, and they will, there is no other choice, right? Since QE2 was an utter failure, and did nothing but prop up a dead, lifeless stock market, the Fed has no credibility left. Will it risk collapse by buying more bonds, printing more money, and raising it’s leverage to 70-1 or 100-1? It knows interest rates will have to rise now, which will make it insolvent already. What can the Fed do, really.
9. This brings us back to Washington. They are out of bullets. Interesting listening to Obama today. Mumbling about keeping the payroll tax cuts in place, creating jobs, stimulating the economy. What’s he going to do? Tap dance for tips? I don’t think he really cares too much, it’s obvious he’s happy that he and the dems can continue to spend $1.5 trillion per year they don’t have. He may not even run for re-electiion, when his approval rating is around 14%, the same percentage as people on Welfare/Disability and SNAP. They’ll vote for him, but he can’t buy any more votes than that.
Ron Paul might save this country, restore some sanity and confidence. He won’t get a chance until 2012. What will be left by then? I’m going to enjoy this week. I’m glad I have a place to rant. Trying to talk to the inmates of this country is pretty pointless. The excitement is just getting started I’m afraid. Hold onto your asses, it’s going to be quite a ride!
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6th August 2011 at 9:14 pm
Opinionated Bloviator says:
Rubs silver and gold coins between hands with cockatoo on shoulder, laughing like Dr Evil on crystal meth….
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6th August 2011 at 9:24 pm
ron says:
Im curious what the end result well be.14 trillion?So besides the mad max scenario what would actually fix this all?every time i see the washington folks talk its like theyre from anouther planet.Its like a house is on fire and they buy squirt guns to put it out.So if things fall apart what well put it back together?A big do over button?
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6th August 2011 at 9:32 pm
AwholeDr says:
Martial Law bitchez:
Obamabucks
Obamajobs
Obamacards for all.
The end of wage enslavement and having to work….
How about use your imagination and provide some ideas what you think will happen….
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6th August 2011 at 9:36 pm
ecliptix543 says:
OB – That’s fucking weird… I’m doing EXACTLY the same thing except with a pair of cockatiels!!
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6th August 2011 at 9:43 pm
AwholeDr says:
OB and ecliptix:
You guys in Tijuana again?
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6th August 2011 at 9:47 pm
AwholeDr says:
After “Black Monday”, the Tuesday morning brownshirts:
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6th August 2011 at 9:51 pm
AwholeDr says:
Admin will like this one:
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6th August 2011 at 10:27 pm
bigargon says:
Monday might be quite the wild ride. the question how bad will it get? will it be beginning of the end? or the end of the beginning?
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6th August 2011 at 11:08 pm
llpoh says:
A few days ago I said that the grermans were getting sick of carrying the southern Europeans, and one day soon would prefer to take the hit to their banks rather than keep carrying them forever. I also said that something to the effect that sothern Europeans only know how to eat, avoid taxes, vacation, bribe and fuck. I haven’t changed my opinion on that. When Germany pulls the teat it is all over for the Euro.
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6th August 2011 at 11:20 pm
newsjunkie says:
Ok, watch this funny video on the importance of saving money:
http://www.therundown.tv/videos/misc-videos/south-park-and-its-gone-scene/
I’m sure we’ve all been through it.
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6th August 2011 at 11:49 pm
howard in nyc says:
nice chart, awhole dr. interesting, not too many brown faces on there.
(and there is no fucking way rev. al or rev. jesse were ever members of any of those organizations listed)
i’m just saying, it is white people visiting all this evil. like it is black people forming flash mobs.
but that’s ok. because, i don’t judge all white people by a few bad apples.
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6th August 2011 at 11:52 pm
howard in nyc says:
kids, take a deep breath. societal collapse don’t happen in one trading day. remember 2008. remember what you read about 1929-1933.
enjoy the show. don’t freak the fuck out.
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6th August 2011 at 11:56 pm
Administrator says:
John Smith
The US Debt to GDP ratio is higher than Germany and Great Britian.
I’d say you are in the running for the dumbest fucking commentor in the history of TBP. And that is saying something.
Basically, your argument is that the United States of America is the best looking horse in the glue factory, so everything is alright.
Is that Correct?
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6th August 2011 at 11:58 pm
howard in nyc says:
phillies shoving it up the giants’ backsides this weekend. if they make it four for four, tomorrow will be a black sunday.
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6th August 2011 at 12:08 am
Hope@ZeroKelvin says:
@Muck: I feel your pain about Word Press eating one’s work. You just finish a brilliant piece, with savage satire, spot-on analysis, pictures of Salma Hayek for SSS – and whammmooo. It vanishes into the black hole that is Word Press. Maybe with some serious donations to Jim, he can afford a better forum platform!
(BTW, Muck, I do not wish to know the details of your “or something”.)
@A-Doc: You are posting way way way too much technical specificities of our Doom. Most of us can only handle Doom in a very general and vague way. Our brains glaze over with soooo much detail.
Too many facts, Herr A-Doc, as King Joseph said to Mozart-Doc, heh.
I think this John Smith guy may have the record for the most thumbs down on a first post since I’ve been reading this site, wow.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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6th August 2011 at 12:11 am
Administrator says:
howard
I hope we’re up 8 to 0 tomorrow and then we can have Oswalt stick one in Beltran’s earhole for that lowlife display Friday night. Revenge is sweet.
Record since the Philles stole Hunter Pence from the Astros – 8 and 0.
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6th August 2011 at 12:16 am
Zara says:
The Arab spring reaches Israel: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/M … 6-17-12-40
If the numbers are right, 270,000 is 3.6% of the entire country. A similar protest here would require 11.5 million participants. Way to go, Ben!
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6th August 2011 at 12:19 am
Golden Tool says:
“When you talk to Asia they say: “We don’t understand what Europe is,””
This comment had me laughing for over 10 mins, I’m talking hysterical giggles. Pretty much sums up Euroland, which makes me think it (euroland) is all a chess game and once the US is boxed out (busy on the home front) let the game begin.
Also…
IMHO US will have a long way to go down before SHTF stage, but you might want to start getting your papers together to avoid trouble. “Papers please, where are you coming from and where are you going to tonight?” Gattaca for the haves and Argentina for the havenots, with lots of eliminated stupid along the way.
The Biggest problem on the US horizon is if we pull out of war mode, after the next election, we lose more then 50% of our oil supply. Easy energy buh bye. No matter who gets elected can the US gov make a policy change like this without destroying the US economic system and what to do about energy. There are answers to these questions unfortunately we won’t hear about them until someone has made bank out of it. As a country we are still small enough to change our path without wiping out our population unlike china or india. Long term they are toast unless energy gets a lot cheaper or a large war breaks out.
I hope I’m wrong on one more thing, but US democracy appears to be broken. The super council is a prime example. Something like this is one of the few things that could fix this, but the potential for tyranny is HUGE. Magic eight ball says “outcome not so good.” I’m not even sure how this could have an appearance of being constitutional, let alone actually being legit. For congress to be able to push something like this through shows how wacked things truly are. The fact that the super council is the low outrage issue is beyond amazing…
Hello, is anyone out there?
My money is on war. It is the easy way out for everyone. Just takes the right something to ignite. Look out for the catalyst and good luck out there.
Do unto others.
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6th August 2011 at 12:19 am
Zara says:
link fail. 2nd try http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_ECONOMIC_PROTEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-06-17-12-40
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6th August 2011 at 12:21 am
Administrator says:
Emergency Meetings Galore: ECB To Hold Crisis Conference Sunday, G20 To Hold Call At 2230 GMT Tonight
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/06/2011 13:43 -0400
For a world that has supposedly largely priced in the US downgrade, the amount of emergency conference calls this weekend is a little disturbing. First, tonight at 22:30 GMT the G20 deputy finmins will hold a conference call It to “exchange of information and opinions.” Next tomorrow sometime the ECB will hold a separate call in “response to the latest developments in the euro zone’s debt crisis, an ECB source said on Saturday.” Somehow we think the tangential topic of the historic US downgrade may also be breached. And, as always, the market is sure to be delighted with the outcome of this latest political hodge podge of responses to what is increasingly shaping up like a market perfect storm of epic proportions.
From Reuters:
Deputy finance ministers from the Group of 20 leading economic powers will hold a conference call on Saturday to discuss the crises in Europe and the United States, a Brazilian finance ministry official said.
The official told Reuters the call was scheduled for 2230 GMT.
“It will be an exchange of information and opinions,” the official said by e-mail without providing further details.
Investors are eager to see signs of a coordinated policy response among major economies, which might prevent the crises from spreading or getting worse.
And also from Reuters:
The European Central Bank will hold a conference call on Sunday to discuss its response to the latest developments in the euro zone’s debt crisis, an ECB source said on Saturday.
Italy’s pledge to speed up austerity measures and whether the ECB should buy Italian government bonds could be discussed but the call’s focus would be on the broader situation in the bloc, the source said.
Two sources earlier said ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet was due to hold a teleconference over the weekend, and that the ECB remained divided over whether to buy Italian government bonds.
Add Germany’s opposition to make a “GDP-for-Italian entitlement benefits” distressed exchange and the fan is on full blast just, waiting for the latest batch of excrement to hit.
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6th August 2011 at 12:28 am
Hope@ZeroKelvin says:
zerohedge has shut down all comments after 11 pm eastern time, huh?
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6th August 2011 at 12:38 am
FTL says:
Keep up the good work Doc – Enjoy the highly technical posts and all the awesome pictures.
and am capable of handeling all the boom, gloom, & doom. No problem here.
re: hzk – A-Doc: You are posting way way way too much technical specificities of our Doom. Most of us can only handle Doom in a very general and vague way. Our brains glaze over with soooo much detail.
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6th August 2011 at 12:43 am
Golden Tool says:
I also enjoy your work doc.
Do unto others.
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6th August 2011 at 12:50 am
Stan says:
I think the market will go up next week and really rally for the next 2 months. But I predict that sometime in late Oct. or Nov. we will see a huge sell off and the Dow will end the year around 8000. Lots of things are coming together to make the last part of this year ugly, including Europes woes, China is in for a slow down, energy prices are draining the pockets of the middle class, college tuition and health care are both rising faster than inflation, stimulus is running out, infractstructure is getting worse, the middle east is coming to a boil, and we are about to see the debt reach 15 trillion.
We have had a good ride. Get out of the market while you can. Hazardous road ahead.
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6th August 2011 at 5:49 am
oleguy says:
The markets are not going to do much. They all got together this weekend and told the big boys to prop it up to send a statement to S&P and the world. I consider this just another crisis to pilfer our wallets. I see the President speaking to the masses about Austerity coming to a place called home. He will preach to the masses and they will love him for it. Taxes are now going to hit everyone. You have savings or a 401K they want that too nothing is safe while they preach we must save the USA. Although they cannot confiscate gold this time they can sure outlaw its trade and use. They will start the War on Gold department. Spend billions on trying to steal it from you.
Both parties have wanted to break their contract with the American people and now they have the justification to do just that all to save the country. The teleprompter and savior will preach to the masses and they will continue to allow him to steal from them. Diplomacy is telling people to go you know where and they love you for it.
Cannot let a crisis fgo to waste. We are indeed in dangerous times.
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6th August 2011 at 8:42 am
Administrator says:
Dubai Shares Drop Most Since February
Middle East shares tumbled, sending Dubai’s index down the most since February, after Standard & Poor’s cut the credit rating of the U.S. for the first time and amid rising concern the global economy is faltering.
Emaar Properties PJSC (EMAAR), developer of the world’s tallest tower, slumped 5.3 percent. Arabtec Holding Co. (ARTC) dropped the most since March after it said second-quarter profit fell 74 percent. The DFM General Index (DFMGI) lost 3.7 percent, the most since Feb. 28, to 1,484.31 at the 2 p.m. close in Dubai. The measure has plunged 12 percent from this year’s high in April, entering a so-called correction. Israel’s TA-25 Index slumped 6 percent, the most since November 2008, at 3:51 p.m. in Tel Aviv.
“We’re playing catch-up and trying to anticipate and price in the response to the downgrade by global markets tomorrow,” said Julian Bruce, equity sales head at EFG-Hermes Holding SAE in Dubai. “The impact on stock prices that we’re seeing reflects the feelings of uncertainty” about global growth, he said.
Global stocks tumbled last week as investors fled equities amid signs the world’s largest economy is stalling. S&P downgraded the AAA credit rating of the U.S. on Aug. 5 by one level to AA+, while keeping the outlook at “negative.” The rating may be cut to AA within two years if spending reductions are lower than agreed to, interest rates rise or “new fiscal pressures” result in higher general government debt, the New York-based firm said.
Global Slump
U.S. and European shares posted their biggest weekly losses since November 2008. The S&P 500 plunged 7.2 percent and the Stoxx 600 Europe Index tumbled 9.9 percent. The European Central Bank left interest rates unchanged on Aug. 4 as economic growth slows and the region’s debt crisis spreads to Italy and Spain.
Oil for September delivery tumbled 9.2 percent last week to $86.88 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The six nations of the Gulf Cooperation Council supply about a fifth of the world’s oil.
The Bloomberg GCC 200 Index (BGCC200) of the region’s stocks declined 1.4 percent and Egypt’s EGX 30 Index (EGX30) slid 4.2 percent today.
Emaar fell the most since March 2 to 2.88 dirhams. Arabtec, the United Arab Emirates’ biggest construction company by market value, tumbled 6.3 percent, also the most since March 2, to 1.34 dirhams. Second-quarter profit dropped to 28.97 million dirhams ($7.9 million) from 111 million dirhams a year earlier. The mean estimate of six analysts was for a profit of 44 million dirhams, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Israel’s Slump
Oman’s MSM 30 Index decreased 1.9 percent. Abu Dhabi’s ADX General Index (ADSMI) and Qatar’s QE Index (DSM) lost 2.5 percent. Kuwait’s gauge decreased 1.6 percent to the lowest since September 2004. Bahrain’s BB All Share Index slipped 0.3 percent, while Saudi Arabia’s Tadawul All Share Index (SASEIDX) rose less than 0.1 percent after tumbling 5.5 percent yesterday.
Israel’s TA-25 Index slid to 1,085.44 and is down 19 percent from a record high on April 21. The open of trading in Israel was delayed by an hour after circuit breakers went into effect as the opening auction indicated a 5 percent decline. The yield on the 5 percent Mimshal Shiklit government bonds due January 2020 rose five basis points, or 0.05 percentage point, to 4.95 percent.
“If there’s a storm globally, it’s going to affect Israel, which has very large exports to the U.S. and the eurozone,” said Ron Eichel, chief economist and strategist at Meitav Investment House Ltd. in Tel Aviv. “It could be a turbulent market in the next few weeks.”
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6th August 2011 at 12:03 pm
Administrator says:
Israeli Stock Index Tumbles Most Since 2008
Israel’s benchmark stock index plunged the most in almost 11 years after Standard & Poor’s lowered the U.S. credit rating and amid concern the widening sovereign debt crisis in Europe will stall global growth.
Israel Discount Bank Ltd. (DSCT), the country’s third-largest lender, skidded 10 percent. Nice Systems Ltd. (NICE) slumped the most since November 2008. All 25 shares in the TA-25 Index tumbled, pushing the gauge down 7 percent, the biggest decline since October 2000, to 1,074.27 at the 4:30 p.m. close in Tel Aviv. The index is near the so-called bear-market territory after retreating 19.9 percent from a record high of 1,341.89 on April 21.
“It could be a turbulent market in the next few weeks,” said Ron Eichel, chief economist and strategist at Meitav Investment House Ltd. in Tel Aviv. “If there’s a storm globally, it’s going to affect Israel, which has very large exports to the U.S. and the eurozone.”
S&P cut the AAA credit rating of the U.S. to AA+ on Aug. 5, while keeping the outlook at “negative.” S&P on Aug. 2 placed Israel’s AAA rating on U.S.-guaranteed sovereign bonds on “CreditWatch.” The European Central Bank left interest rates unchanged on Aug. 4 as economic growth slows and the region’s debt crisis spreads to Italy and Spain.
Slower Growth
The Bank of Israel on Aug. 2 cut its economic growth forecasts for this year and next, saying debt reduction plans in developed countries may lead to a global slowdown. The economy will expand 4.8 percent in 2011 and 3.9 percent in 2012, the bank said, lowering its forecasts from 5.2 percent and 4.2 percent, respectively.
Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz yesterday called the downgrade a “warning sign” for Israel’s economy. Supervisor of Banks David Zaken said today the downgrade “underlines the need to be prepared for scenarios that if we talked about them a few years ago, would have seemed impossible.”
Discount slumped the most since October 2008 to 5.44 shekels. Nice, a maker of digital surveillance and monitoring systems, plummeted 9.8 percent to 101.80 shekels.
Government bonds fell for the first time in a week. The yield on the benchmark 5 percent Mimshal Shiklit due January 2020 increased the most since June, rising five basis points, or 0.05 percentage point, to 4.95 percent. The Tel-Bond 40 Index of corporate bonds retreated 3.3 percent, the most since November 2008.
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6th August 2011 at 12:04 pm
Administrator says:
S&P Explains Why The “$2 Trillion Error” Is Irrelevant
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/07/2011 11:14 -0400
Yesterday we showed that when it comes to projections, the CBO’s own track record makes S&P shine in comparison. Apparently this fact was not lost on S&P itself which sent out a note explaining which “clarified assumption used on discretionary spending growth.” Basically, as S&P says, “Our ratings are determined primarily using a 3-5 year time horizon. In the near term horizon, by 2015, the U.S. net general government debt with the new assumptions were projected to be $14.5 trillion (79% of 2015 GDP) versus $14.7 trillion (81% of 2015 GDP) with the initial assumption – a difference of $345 billion.” So yes, while by 2021 the difference could be $2.1 trillion based on the CBO’s current baseline model, the truth is that the CBO’s own estimate on revenue and spending projections in a decade will likely have a +/- $10 trillion margin of error. So does anyone really care? In essence all S&P did was point out what Zero Hedge and others have been saying: that a “deficit cutting” plan which is massively back end loaded and has about $20 billion in cuts over the next year is absolutely without credit or merit. And the disingenuity on the side of Treasury to believe that someone would think otherwise is simply appalling. That said, while the markets look set to crash very shortly, the overabundance of catalysts means that it will be more than just the downgrade that throws risk into a tailspin. Although prepare for an all out onslaught by the Treasury on S&P as a scapegoat. After all in USSAA(negative outlook) it is never our fault: it is always someone else’s.
Full S&P note:
Standard & Poor’s Clarifies Assumption Used On Discretionary Spending Growth
New York, Aug. 6, 2011. In response to questions, Standard & Poor’s today said that the ratings decision to lower the long-term rating to AA+ from AAA was not affected by the change of assumptions regarding the pace of discretionary spending growth. In the near term horizon to 2015, the U.S. net general government debt is projected to be $14.5 trillion (79% of 2015 GDP) versus $14.7 trillion (81% of 2015 GDP) with the initial assumption.
We used the Alternative Fiscal Scenario of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), which includes an assumption that government discretionary appropriations will grow at the same rate as nominal GDP. In further discussions between Standard & Poor’s and Treasury, we determined that the CBO’s Baseline Scenario, which assumes discretionary appropriations grow at a lower rate, would be more consistent with CBO assessment of the savings set out by the Budget Control Act of 2011.
Our ratings are determined primarily using a 3-5 year time horizon.
In the near term horizon, by 2015, the U.S. net general government debt with the new assumptions were projected to be $14.5 trillion (79% of 2015 GDP) versus $14.7 trillion (81% of 2015 GDP) with the initial assumption – a difference of $345 billion.
In taking a longer term horizon of 10 years, the U.S. net general government debt level with the current assumptions would be $20.1 trillion (85% of 2021 GDP). With the original assumptions, the debt level was projected to be $22.1 trillion (93% of 2021 GDP).
The primary focus remained on the current level of debt, the trajectory of debt as a share of the economy, and the lack of apparent willingness of elected officials as a group to deal with the U.S. medium term fiscal outlook. None of these key factors was meaningfully affected by the assumption revisions to the assumed growth of discretionary outlays and thus had no impact on the rating decision.
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6th August 2011 at 12:09 pm
Welshman says:
TBP,
I think Aug – Sep – Oct 2011 are going to be 90 days to remember. If the Euro holds they will print, if not, it is back to the Mark for Germany. I wonder if we will see QE 3 in some form by Oct.
AwholeDr.,
“Where the angst and excitement.” We gave you 11 that-a-boys thumbs up and bitch slapped John Smith 33 times. We agree with you whole heartly.
But this shit is depressing. This down the drain thing is coming on much faster than I want, and I do prepper things to keep my mind off of the coming crisis. My wife and I are processing tomatoes into frozen chucks and making sauce. That is depressing too, do you know how much work processing food is? WTF I use to process food for a living, but small scale is lots of work’
We made 22/16oz and 5/32oz bag of tomato chucks, plus 5 quarts of tomato sauce. It is in freezer bags and containers. Our burmill grinder is setting on the wooden table we bought and needs to be bolted down so we can grind wheat. We have made 4 loafs of bread and that is a pain in the ass too. Just to get the above tomato amounts we had to use over 100 tomatoes. It is a real learning curve, and we understand why old farmers were mostly skinny.
I have bought materials for starting the chicken coop, but it will be next spring before chickens are running around.
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6th August 2011 at 12:10 pm
AwholeDr says:
Welshman:
Thanks, good luck with that food and chickens. Hope you have enough firepower to protect it…
My gun cabinet:
I wish…
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6th August 2011 at 12:22 pm
Muck About says:
I really don’t know what all the fuss is over..
Anyone who has followed zh or tbp for more than 6 months already knows what’s coming down the pike. I suppose it is a human trait, when upset, to run in circles screaming and shouting. That’s what this thread looks like.
I don’t know about you all, but other than a small trading position I got bounced out of (TBF) when the Euro-monkeys start throwing shit at each other, my positions are all just like they were a year ago and anything that happens Monday (8/8/11) will make me change nothing.
The markets may go berserker starting in Asia later today and work their way around the world to Wall St. Monday AM. Who cares? We knew that 4th Turnings tend to be a bit ragged as things fall apart – sometimes faster than others – but fall apart it will, so what’s da big deal?
I got my biggest kick in the ass today at lunch when I went down the street to a Subway to try out their new “pulled pork” sub. Holy Shit! $8.00 for a sub with a tiny little pile of shredded crap covered with bad barbecue sauce. The Subway Club (my favorite) had also jumped a full dollar in a week to $7.25 which means no more Subway for this guy. It just hurts my feelings to pay that much for so little. I’ll just get a little creative at the grocery (as long as I can afford it and they have it on the shelves) and make my own.
And so it goes down the slide.. Like Welshman says, “Maybe a little faster than we expected..”
MA
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6th August 2011 at 1:27 pm
Delia says:
We are a Republic not a democracy! The fact our Republic has (by design I think) devolved into a democracy is a part of the problem. Once the lazy realize they can vote for ” free stuff” on the “public dime” democracy’s devolve into dictatorships. Well I think we are there, fascist dictatorship. Look it up we have arrived Obama invading Libya w/o bothering congress and violating the war powers act and nothing. In 2001 when Goldman Sachs and Citibank looted Argentina privatizing profits and unloading losses onto the public (sounding familiar to anyone?) the crash included the gov stealing retirements (Obama snagging the federal employee retirement fund recently) it is happening here already. Our media is worthless cops are killing on average one innocent person per day, riots have occurred here and there no media coverage at all. Look at the fair in Milwaukee WI where hordes of black youth some estimates said 300 were robbing and beating whites. Group of 50 attacked and robbed group watching fireworks a few weeks back. Look at the papers during the great depression. Looks like today we are in recovery! HAHAHA, check out Chris Martensons crash course and see how they fudge the numbers, helps realize how crooked they are and how screwed our nation is. How long can the tap dance continue? THAT is the question. Like in client number nine when they said they have to keep it going until the music stops, musical chairs, on the Titanic? The problem was not the lack of regulators it was that the regulators ie gov is aiding and abetting the crooks. Laws are and were in place to jail the crooks, most of what they are doing is illegal and unconstitutional, yet nothing, and people keep watching dancing with the stars. What can we do? Prepare yourself every Argentinian survival blog I read said I wish I had more food. I think when it collapses the crash will come quick and people in cities will be worse off.
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6th August 2011 at 1:28 pm
Welshman says:
AwholeDr.,
I have guns, but really hate them. Mainly police shotguns and a few pistols. The turning point with guns came when my wife, who handles guns like dirty diapers, was watching the scene in New Orleans. She calls me over to the TV and says, “Honey, we need more guns”.
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6th August 2011 at 1:57 pm
Administrator says:
Delia
I went to your website. Good luck in your campaign. We need more candidates like you who want to follow the Constitution. Keep posting.
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6th August 2011 at 2:26 pm
Muck About says:
@Delia: For a minute there when I looked at your picture I thought you might be related to Salma Hayek. Sorry, wrong angle… Good luck anyhow but don’t expect a lot of respect here on TBP. Politicians are regarded as slightly lower than whale shit on this site except for Ron Paul and he’s too old to pick up the strain.
Anyhow, come back when you learn to use periods, commas and other common punctuation.
MA
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6th August 2011 at 2:38 pm
Welshman says:
Welcome Delia,
Spend more time at TBP, there are alot of preppers. If you have the money, Costco has a years supply of food for four at 20% off until Aug. 15th. Thrive #559948 for $3,000. Ten to 20 year shelf life. Online orders only.
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6th August 2011 at 2:46 pm
Yojimbo says:
What is the best way to watch the show at 5 PM when the Asian markets open? Is there any site in particular that will be live?
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6th August 2011 at 2:50 pm
ecliptix543 says:
AWD, I have no fucking idea how you broke into my house and took pictures of one of my gun cabinets, but you forgot to leave cookies and beer on the counter. Last warning. No more sneaky voyeur weapon pix without cookies (Oreo’s, please) and beer (Newcastle preferred, but if you’re a cheap bastard, I suppose Yuengling will do. Bottles only.)
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6th August 2011 at 3:16 pm
platoplubius says:
John Smith must have read what David Axelrod recently said about the Tea Partiers…this can only mean John Smith is an Obamanista….very dissappointing to say the least. Let the demonizing of the Tea Party commence in full via the MSM!
Damn those Tea Party people with their calls for “fiscal responsibility” and true common sense debates.
Check out Marco Rubio (R) Florida discuss the debt debate…and of course…who has a rebuttal…Sen. Kerry. Why is it Kerry always seems to want to interrupt people during their timed speeches?
http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/forum/topic/show?id=2600775:Topic:4994038&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_topic
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6th August 2011 at 3:32 pm
Administrator says:
Yojimbo
You can follow the indexes on Bloomberg. Zero Hedge will surely be covering what is happening.
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6th August 2011 at 3:54 pm
Administrator says:
Welshman
I odered the Thrive protein package this weekend.
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6th August 2011 at 3:58 pm
Buckhed says:
Eclip….musicians love Newcastle…it’s one of my favorites.
Who ever owns that safe,I wouldn’t have so many loaded clips…..being loaded for long periods of time can damage the clips. Besides 100 round beta mags look cooler !
To those who are prepped for the SHTF…if you don’t have a level 4 vest yer’ missing the boat .
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6th August 2011 at 4:02 pm
Buckhed says:
Jim..if you want some good stuff…go to this web site…order the Bioplex Whey protein powder…5 pounds for about 70 bucks…..it’s the best stuff on the market and it’s not loaded down with extra shit in the ingredients. I’d buy a vacuum packer from FoodSaver and pack a lot of this stuff in small packets for traveling.
Have you loaded up on vitamins ?
http://www.physicaladdictions.com/Proteins/Whey-Protein/Pure-WPI-Isolate-Whey-5-Pounds
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6th August 2011 at 4:12 pm
fwiw imho says:
“Why is it Kerry always seems to want to interrupt people during their timed speeches?”
Because he was, is and always will be a self centered prick.
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6th August 2011 at 4:38 pm
ragman says:
Doc: looks like a pretty good start. But a bunch of AR15s pretty much sucks. Diversify. Get a real MBR, something in 7.62X51. My favorite is the M1A in any of its variances. Ultimately a .50BMG will round out your gun safe. Only kidding! Whatever floats your boat is OK. I’ll say one thing, you have a shit-load of mags. Keep yo’ powder dry, looks like we might need it.
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6th August 2011 at 4:50 pm
fwiw imho says:
If we make it to Christmas, I’m asking Santa for one of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUe4NWiOq5A&feature=related
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6th August 2011 at 5:18 pm
ecliptix543 says:
Buckhed – I wouldn’t have that many mags either. Most of my stockpile stays on stripper clips and I rotate loaded mags every few weeks to keep the feed lips from cracking. I’ve recently become a huge fan of Magpul’s PMAG’s though – they’re cheap (as low as $12 for a 30rd) and have a cover plate that depresses the rounds just enough to relieve tension on the mag body. No problems feeding or dropping free and polymer so now worries about corrosion in the long term. The first one came with the new MP-15 I picked up a few weeks back and I’ve since ordered 5 more to add to the stash. Getcha a few!!
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6th August 2011 at 5:22 pm
Buckhed says:
Ragman…the M1A format is spot on,I have a buddy who has a tricked out M14….dang thang is a tack driver but he spent a lot of bucks on upgrades….it’s not an out of the box weapon.
Some small companies are making excellent AR’s…..Spikes Tactical is one.
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6th August 2011 at 5:23 pm
ecliptix543 says:
fwiw imho – Jeezus… you think they’d combine shipping if we ordered a few at a time? Like a TBP Special Edition?
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6th August 2011 at 5:24 pm
Buckhed says:
If you have the money…this is a killer hand gun. 30 round clips are available and it YOU are capable, it can hit a target at 100 meters with ease.
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/family.asp?fid=FNF003&gid=FNG001
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6th August 2011 at 5:27 pm
Buckhed says:
Eclip…Magpul makes good stuff
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6th August 2011 at 5:28 pm
howard in nyc says:
And They’re Off!
dow futes open down 266 and falling. s+p off 30, but rising a tad. gold 1687.
(you see, monday morning starts at 6pm sunday evening. these are american futures markets. they stay open from now ’til close friday afternoon, except for a 15 minute lockup each day at 4:15pm.)
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6th August 2011 at 6:15 pm
scott says:
I’ve got my old AR-15 from my army days. A lot of guys bought their own ( semi of course) so they didn’t have to dirty their GI one in the field. Also an AR-7 survival.22. Don’t think I’ll need anymore than that but what I would like is some explosives to make suicide chihuahuas.
You see, I’m basically a coward. But chihuahuas aren’t as we all know. They’ll come after your ass even though you outweight them 20 to 1. If there are some bad dudes prowling around my house in the Mad Max era, who knows what weapons they have or how many there. I don’t want to find out so why not ‘deploy’ a suicide chihuahua. A human seeking yapping sentinel loading with C-4! He’s small and fast so very tough to hit and he’ll close with the enemy no matter the odds. When he gets close you detonate him and that’s that. They don’t eat much either and I’ve never met a guy who really liked a chihuahua so its unlikely you’d grow attached to your ‘arsenal’.
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6th August 2011 at 6:28 pm
ecliptix543 says:
Scott, Brilliant. You can usually find free ones on craigs list… just saying…
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6th August 2011 at 6:34 pm
AwholeDr says:
ecliptix543:
I’ll remember the cookies and milk. I came down the chimney, there was a bear trap in the fireplace, now I’m at the ER getting my ass stapled back together.
Bloomberg covers all Asian markets, NZ and Australia. Should be good entertainment tonight.
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6th August 2011 at 6:42 pm
Welshman says:
AU up +36, But it ended Friday at 1666, and now at 1688, that is up +22. Not going to be a nice Monday.
Slow down, you are going to fast, this is starting scare my aged ass.
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6th August 2011 at 6:54 pm
AwholeDr says:
I have to post this again. “John Smith” got 48 thumbs down for saying the same thing a White House spokesman said on American television today. Once again I ask you, where is the outrage and angst? How stupid does the president think we are?
White House adviser blames tea party for downgrade
WASHINGTON (AP) — A top White House adviser is blaming the downgrade of the U.S. credit rating on tea party Republicans, whom he says were unwilling to compromise on how to reduce the federal debt.
The adviser to President Barack Obama, David Axelrod, tells CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Sunday that the decision by the Standard & Poor’s credit agency to downgrade the U.S. from AAA to AA+ for the first time was strongly influenced by weeks of standoff between Democrats and Republicans over the debt.
Axelrod calls the action, in his words, “a tea party downgrade” and says it’s clearly on the backs of lawmakers who were willing to see the country default to get their way.
Axelrod also criticized GOP presidential candidates for not speaking up in favor of compromise.
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6th August 2011 at 6:56 pm
ecliptix543 says:
Sorry about the bear trap in the fireplace… the poison darts weren’t doing the job so I had to upgrade my Autonomous Remote Security Enhancements (ARSE) to something more.. graphic. And, it’s not milk. It’s beer. Johnny Walker Gold would do the trick too – two bottles will get you the codes to my ARSE…
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6th August 2011 at 7:31 pm
ragman says:
buckhead: I just got a Spikes for my birfday. Bare bones, probably weighs 5 pounds but it is an awesome rifle. I put flip-up metal sights on it(LaRue via Troy) with a trijicon dot up front. I’ve been thinking of an optical sight but it is so slick the way it is, I just don’t know. Good shooting and keep yo’ powder dry! M1A is indeed expensive but well worth it!
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6th August 2011 at 7:31 pm
Administrator says:
Market situation looking dicey:
Ten Year Treasury rates up 17 basis points.
Gold up $36
Dollar falling and approaching lows set in 2008
Dow Futures down 260
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6th August 2011 at 7:32 pm
ecliptix543 says:
Congrats on the Spikes, ragman! Have you heard of the new Open Tip Match penetrator rounds being issued to the guys over on the sandbox? It’s a 62gr just like the regular SS109, but the jacket is reverse drawn so it ends up with a tiny hole in the front and a solid copper base instead of steel. I have two boxes on order for testing purposes… They’re allegedly designed to be barrier-blind and hold a much better terminal trajectory after passing through glass or light steel. Also said to be optimized for the standard M4 profile 14.5″/16″ barrel. If you want, I’ll keep you posted on the testing results…
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6th August 2011 at 7:37 pm
ragman says:
ecliptix: please do. I understand the 55grain doesn’t do too well going through glass or light metal. Better get all we can before the Kenyan gets re-elected.
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6th August 2011 at 7:41 pm
ecliptix543 says:
Do a quick search for 5.56 Mk318 Mod 0. There is already a metric assload of ballistics data on it, including a pdf of the bid request/contract from DoD that you can read. Cheaper Than Dirt has them, Silver State Armory has better prices but are out of stock at the moment…
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6th August 2011 at 7:56 pm
howard in nyc says:
suicide chihuahuas. so wrong. so brilliant. i’m gonna remember that handy home defense tip.
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6th August 2011 at 8:43 pm
Delia says:
Call me a politician again and someone just might find out I can take em in a fist fight! I was endorsed by Ron Paul and Sheriff Mack, I am not running again though website is still up from last election. I fear we are too far gone to get our Republic back by election. I agree politicians are lower than whale shit
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6th August 2011 at 12:08 am
Mikey says:
@Delia
oooh – good start
While most commentators here are poo flinging monkeys, provided you can keep up and not say anything too stupid, you’ll normally eventually gain their respect. You can tell you’ve gained their respect when they insult you more often – it means they know you can take it.
I don’t seem to be the target of much airborne biological waste product, this may be because they don’t respect me, maybe because they’re afraid of Australians, or perhaps because the average punter here cannot understand sentences that have words like ‘colour’, ‘gaol’, and ‘realise’ spelt correctly.
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6th August 2011 at 3:02 am
ecliptix543 says:
You mean ‘Spelled’ correctly? Such a dishonourable display of Aussie grammar skills… jackass…
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6th August 2011 at 4:05 am
FTL says:
Lower than whale shit – Thats some pretty bad stuff – The only thing worse is alligator shit.
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6th August 2011 at 6:18 am
Mikey says:
@ecliptix – no, I mean spelt – as in the past tense of the word ‘spell’
link – http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt
I believe that’s a point to me
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6th August 2011 at 6:52 am
ecliptix543 says:
I shall blatantly disregard the link to a dictionary that is obviously corrupted. Aussie spellings don’t count as long as the dictionary is upside down and you guys still insist on driving on the wrong side of the road!!
(I got to live in Townsville, QLD for about 3 months a few years back. I’d drop my shit here and move in a second if I had the resources and a permanent residency visa…)
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6th August 2011 at 12:46 pm
AwholeDr says:
It’s black monday for the banks.
Bank of America: -16%
Citigroup: -10%
AIG: -8%
Some mention of another TARP will be needed. Talk about another tipping point. Ouch. AIG selling credit default swaps like hot-cakes, with rates going through the ceiling, especially on Bank of America. Can you say 2008 all over again? Oh wait, the deficit is now $14.5 trillion, good luck getting any more TARP money. Or will they bring back fireball Hank Paulson to con the Congress and taxpayers? When those European CDS’s come due, it’s going to be every man for himself, head for the hills, kiss your ass goodbye.
Can’t wait to here what Obama is going to say; let me guess, the fucking Tea Party caused all this, and Republicans. The markets would go up 200 points if he simply admitted mistakes were made, admitted responsibility, and grew a pair and became a fucking leader. No chance of that happening.
Admin: this post/thread needs to be back on top. It’s monday, the topic is black monday, how bout it?
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6th August 2011 at 1:12 pm
Mikey says:
@ecliptix
You lived in Townsville?
I’m so very sorry for you. Townsville is a horrible place.
Next time you make it up here where people stand the right way up try a bit further north. Sure there’s more crocodiles, cyclones and stingers, but the beaches are better. My missues and I spent a month around christmas/new year camping on a few islands on the Whitsundays.
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6th August 2011 at 7:00 pm