This article appeared on the OWS site; http://owsnews.org
It was written by Ellen Brown who appears to have some influence on the movement. I’m not saying she’s an official spokesperson ….. since we all know the movement is leaderless.
But her article has already been commented on by many outlets, including The Daily Bell, which is listed in the right hand column under links.
Ms Brown, an attorney with 11 books to her credit, also runs two other web sites;
http://www.webofdebt.com/
http://publicbankinginstitute.org/
I’m not sure these are demands …. since we all know the movement makes no demands. However, it certainly shows some of their thinking.
And, I don’t like it. That’s because this article further clarifies what Strauss and others have recently been saying …. that OWS, if successful, would result in even BIGGER government.
While I greatly enjoy anyone who questions and disdains authority – especially cops, and while I love the “End The Fed” sentiments …. I am increasingly dissatisfied with their “solutions”, on those rare occasions when they are made known.
What say you?
(Lastly, and a bit off topic, The Daily Bail has gone to great lengths to show that the OWS movement has already been co-opted by the elite powers that be …. not necessarily at the grass roots level, but at the very top “leadership” level. They have at least 4 detailed articles you can find on their web site search engine. It is interesting data, to say the least.)
================================== =
Time for an Economic Bill of Rights
Henry Ford said, “It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
We are beginning to understand, and Occupy Wall Street looks like the beginning of the revolution.
We are beginning to understand that our money is created, not by the government, but by banks. Many authorities have confirmed this, including the Federal Reserve itself. The only money the government creates today are coins, which compose less than one ten-thousandth of the money supply. Federal Reserve Notes, or dollar bills, are issued by Federal Reserve Banks, all twelve of which are owned by the private banks in their district. Most of our money comes into circulation as bank loans, and it comes with an interest charge attached.
According to Margrit Kennedy, a German researcher who has studied this issue extensively, interest now composes 40% of the cost of everything we buy. We don’t see it on the sales slips, but interest is exacted at every stage of production. Suppliers need to take out loans to pay for labor and materials, before they have a product to sell.
For government projects, Kennedy found that the average cost of interest is 50%. If the government owned the banks, it could keep the interest and get these projects at half price. That means governments—state and federal—could double the number of projects they could afford, without costing the taxpayers a single penny more than we are paying now.
This opens up exciting possibilities. Federal and state governments could fund all sorts of things we think we can’t afford now, simply by owning their own banks. They could fund something Franklin D. Roosevelt and Martin Luther King dreamt of—an Economic Bill of Rights.
A VISION FOR TOMORROW
In his first inaugural address in 1933, Roosevelt criticized the sort of near-sighted Wall Street greed that precipitated the Great Depression. He said,—- “They only know the rules of a generation of self-seekers. They have no vision, and where there is no vision the people perish.”
Roosevelt’s own vision reached its sharpest focus in 1944, when he called for a Second Bill of Rights. He said: —– “This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights . . . . They were our rights to life and liberty.”
As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness. He then enumerated the economic rights he thought needed to be added to the Bill of Rights. They included:
———– The right to a job;
———– The right to earn enough to pay for food and clothing;
———– The right of businessmen to be free of unfair competition and domination by monopolies;
———– The right to a decent home;
———– The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to enjoy good health;
———– The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
———– The right to a good education.
Times have changed since the first Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution in 1791. When the country was founded, people could stake out some land, build a house on it, farm it, and be self-sufficient. The Great Depression saw people turned out of their homes and living in the streets—a phenomenon we are seeing again today. Few people now own their own homes. Even if you have signed a mortgage, you will be in debt peonage to the bank for 30 years or so before you can claim the home as your own. [Stucky: You NEVER own your home. Not as long as must pay property taxes. At best, you lease your home from the goobermint.]
Health needs have changed too. In 1791, foods were natural and nutrient-rich, and outdoor exercise was built into the lifestyle. Degenerative diseases such as cancer and heart disease were rare. Today, health insurance for some people can cost as much as rent.
Then there are college loans, which collectively now exceed a trillion dollars, more even than credit card debt. Students are coming out of universities not just without jobs but carrying a debt of $20,000 or so on their backs. For medical students and other post-graduate students, it can be $100,000 or more. Again, that’s as much as a mortgage, with no house to show for it. The justification for incurring these debts was supposed to be that the students would get better jobs when they graduated, but now jobs are scarce.
After World War II, the G.I. Bill provided returning servicemen with free college tuition, as well as cheap home loans and business loans. It was called “the G.I. Bill of Rights.” Studies have shown that the G.I. Bill paid for itself seven times over and is one of the most lucrative investments the government ever made.
The government could do that again—without increasing taxes or the federal debt. It could do it by recovering the power to create money from Wall Street and the financial services industry, which now claim a whopping 40% of everything we buy.
AN UPDATED CONSTITUTION FOR A NEW MILLENNIUM
Banks acquired the power to create money by default, when Congress declined to claim it at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. The Constitution says only that “Congress shall have the power to coin money [and] regulate the power thereof.” The Founders left out not just paper money but checkbook money, credit card money, money market funds, and other forms of exchange that make up the money supply today. All of them are created by private financial institutions, and they all come into the economy as loans with interest attached.
Governments—state and federal—could bypass the interest tab by setting up their own publicly-owned banks. Banking would become a public utility, a tool for promoting productivity and trade rather than for extracting wealth from the debtor class.
Congress could go further: it could reclaim the power to issue money from the banks and fund its budget directly. It could do this, in fact, without changing any laws. Congress is empowered to “coin money,” and the Constitution sets no limit on the face amount of the coins. Congress could issue a few one-trillion dollar coins, deposit them in an account, and start writing checks.
The Fed’s own figures show that the money supply has shrunk by $3 trillion since 2008. That sum could be spent into the economy without inflating prices. Three trillion dollars could go a long way toward providing the jobs and social services necessary to fulfill an Economic Bill of Rights. Guaranteeing employment to anyone willing and able to work would increase GDP, allowing the money supply to expand even further without inflating prices, since supply and demand would increase together.
MODERNIZING THE BILL OF RIGHTS
As Bob Dylan said, “The times they are a’changin’.” Revolutionary times call for revolutionary solutions and an updated social contract. Apple and Microsoft update their programs every year. We are trying to fit a highly complex modern monetary scheme into a constitutional framework that is 200 years old.
After President Roosevelt died in 1945, his vision for an Economic Bill of Rights was kept alive by Martin Luther King. “True compassion,” King declared, “is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring.”
MLK too has now passed away, but his vision has been carried on by a variety of money reform groups. The government as “employer of last resort,” guaranteeing a living wage to anyone who wants to work, is a basic policy of an approach called Modern Monetary Theory (MMT).
What was sufficient for a simple agrarian economy does not provide an adequate framework for freedom and democracy today. We need an Economic Bill of Rights, and we need to end the privatization of the national currency. Only when the privilege of creating the national money supply is returned to the people can we have a government that is truly of the people, by the people and for the people.
Muck About says:
Anyone who starts bleating about “Rights” had better be able to define natural rights and defined politically given rights.
Natural rights are quite basic. Breathing for example. Or eating when you’re hungry provided you can find something to eat.
Every “right” listed above is a politically granted “right” and as such is no “right” at all. Every “right” listed above requires someone has to work and produce them which is fine if the one who works enjoys the “rights” he produced.
Unfortunately, what really happens when such unicorn crap “rights” are demanded by people, they want them without having to work to produce them. That’s why our very own “Bill of Rights” states that we have a “right” to pursue happiness, not that we have a “right” to happiness. If you pursue something avidly, with sufficient effort and persistence, it is very likely you will be able to enjoy the “right” that you produced – unless the social mores insist that you work and produce and Joe Blow-it-out-his-ass gets to enjoy the “right” you worked to hard to pursue.
Ayn Rand takes care of all those “rights” very handily and she did it a long time ago.
MA
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
13 
1
14th November 2011 at 3:06 pm
Stucky says:
The Daily Bell closing comments on the article;
==============================
“It is not possible for government to provide the rights that Ms. Brown speaks of any more than it is possible for government officials to know how much money to print if they come to run a national central bank. It is impossible to know. Only the free-market can tell you via money competition and the circulation of gold and silver.
Ms. Brown’s article appeared on the new OWS website and is the lead article this morning. No doubt Ms. Brown is both dedicated and sincere about her solutions. And perhaps a nationalized central bank would be a marginal improvement over what we have now.
But it seems to me the elites would take over that bank even more easily than they took over the Federal Reserve. The elites WANT government involvement. They SEEK it. That’s how they run things, via mercantilism. Anything that makes government grow only increases the hold that a handful of people have over Western economies.
Want to make a real change? Reduce the power of government, don’t enhance it.
==============================
http://thedailybell.com/3231/Anthony-Wile-A-Realistic-Economic-Bill-of-Rights-Is-Not-Possible
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
5 
0
14th November 2011 at 3:12 pm
AWD says:
Stucky:
These “rights” are now a joke. You’re either on the government dole, or you work. People that do work have the right to pay taxes, obey regulations, and pay, pay, pay for health insurance even though they are getting ripped off beyond comprehension.
———– The right to a job;
———– The right to earn enough to pay for food and clothing;
———– The right of businessmen to be free of unfair competition and domination by monopolies;
———– The right to a decent home;
———– The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to enjoy good health;
———– The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
———– The right to a good education.
For the entitlement crowd, the FSA, the disability scammers, they have a right to free cash, free housing, free food/SNAP, free healthcare and meds, all for NOT having to work. Some 65 million of them in total. The people that actually DO want to work and earn what they get are fucked six ways to Sunday as they see their standard of living disintegrating.
What’s the difference between “rights” and “entitlements”?
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
11 
0
14th November 2011 at 3:20 pm
Amos Turtle says:
By their words you know them. As I suspected they are at core a leftist group. A new bill of rights? More like a new list of entitlements.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
11 
1
14th November 2011 at 3:20 pm
Stucky says:
“What’s the difference between “rights” and “entitlements”?” —– AWD
If you are talking about politically given “rights” …. there is NO difference.!
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
6 
0
14th November 2011 at 3:34 pm
KaD says:
I believe there’s a sensible middle ground here. NO, the government shouldn’t be in the business of paying people to make babies or sit on their ass for life. But I think we still need some sort of safety net; if someone gets cancer is it really fair for them to lose everything they worked all their life for just because they got sick? Money needs to be put into the system at the FRONT end, prevention, education, and incentives to keep healthy; not into the back end where people are already obese and sick and any cost effectiveness is thrown out the window.
Like or Dislike:
3 
0
14th November 2011 at 3:41 pm
Stucky says:
” … if someone gets cancer is it really fair for them to lose everything they worked all their life for just because they got sick?” …. KaD
No, it absolutely is not fair.
But, it is life. Life is not fair. I don’t think we should have government handouts based on what’s fair, or not. Where would it end?
It’s not fair that I have an 11 1/2 inch schlong. But I don’t expect a bailout from the Schlong Reduction Act.
Like or Dislike:
4 
2
14th November 2011 at 3:47 pm
Administrator says:
Stuck
Ellen Brown is an attorney who has written a book called Web of Debt about the Federal Reserve. She wrote this article, not OWS.
She doesn’t speak for OWS, so saying her demands are the demands of OWS is pretty much bullshit.
Just sayin.
Like or Dislike:
4 
3
14th November 2011 at 3:52 pm
Administrator says:
This is the official website of OWS.
http://occupywallst.org/
Please show me Ellen Brown’s article on this website or any support for her demands.
Like or Dislike:
5 
1
14th November 2011 at 3:54 pm
Dave says:
“The people that actually DO want to work and earn what they get are fucked six ways to Sunday as they see their standard of living disintegrating.”
And that’s why OWS will fail. The 99% is 10%.
Like or Dislike:
2 
3
14th November 2011 at 4:26 pm
Dave says:
“This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don’t need Wall Street and we don’t need politicians to build a better society.”
Who are the “real people”?
What “better society” will you be building?
Who will be in charge?
Like or Dislike:
1 
4
14th November 2011 at 4:31 pm
Dragline says:
Well, I hope they don’t go down this road with rights.
The Bill of Rights is not actually a list of your rights. The author of this article — and seemingly a majority of people — are very confused about that. The Bill of Rights is actually written in the negative as a list of prohibitions, or thou shalt nots, on government actions. The authors of it were well aware that there was some danger that by listing a series of rights, it would later be interpreted as “that’s all you get”. They included the 9th and 10th amendments as catchalls in an attempt to avoid that interpretation, which probably has not been as effective as they would have liked. Most of the Constitution itself is not about rights, but about separation of powers.
And this has nothing to do with Ayn Rand, for God’s sake — the Constitution and Declaration of Independence are practically plagiarized from the works of John Locke. Here’s a tiny intro in case you never studied him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-buzVjYQvY
Note who Locke would vote for.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 4:37 pm
Stucky says:
OK, Jim. I DID say, “I’m not saying she’s an official spokesperson” … and, “I’m not sure these are demands”.
I guess you missed that part.
Not that it matters. I went to the official website you provided the link for. Just a small sampling of things I found.
They’re upset about losing social security ….”Jeopardizing the future of social security through investiture and privatization schemes” ….
They want more money for education ….”By reducing funding to our education system our future generations are provided a lesser education that previous generations received …”
.
I know you love OWS. I still like some of the things they are doing. But, in many cases they are diametrically opposed to the very things you often write about here. That may present quite a conundrum for you at some point.
Like or Dislike:
4 
1
14th November 2011 at 4:37 pm
J Goulding says:
Dear Ellen Brown,
Please stay out of small planes.
Sincerely,
Jim
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:14 pm
GT says:
I do not support the OWS movement because of their manifesto. Sorry I cannot do it. They wantthe government to solve all the worlds problems and this very site is a product of our government. The government picks and chooses the winners and losers these days and that is not their job. A safety net sure but how long? Infrastructure sure and defense sure as it was mandated in the constitution. Taking a persons money to give to another is not a function of governement sorry blast away. The right to a fair wage give me a break do the math and you will know why. Right to free college no way. Right to taxpayers money to sit on your butt and do nothing well go starve. I am sick of it. The medical industry needs to be revamped you will get my vote on that but not the obmamacare as it addresses nothing. Sad you can buy drugs for aids in alot of countries for 4 bucks a botlles but in the USA it is 1500 bucks. This is the problem our government aloows this crap to go on . Why because they are sucking at the donation test and are allowed legal insider trading. You have the right to life, freedom, and happiness, not the right to steal from one person to give to another.
Until people are responsible for their choices they make nothing will ever change. Until we rid our country of corruption in the local to fed level government nothing will change. Until we get the governement picking winners and losers based on the doantions or party affliation we lose. OWS can talk bad about Wall Street all they want but until we take out the root of the problem nothing will change. The politician are so laughing at them right now as they know theeir are the problem. Well them and people voting themselves freebies.
Like or Dislike:
4 
1
14th November 2011 at 5:23 pm
thc0655 says:
Why can’t they Occupy something meaningful, and likely to force change? How about Occupying some vacant houses about to be foreclosed on with fraudulent paperwork? Refuse to leave until criminal charges are filed against the perpetrators (in the meantime: free housing out of the cold and rain!!). How about Occupying the local US Attorney’s office (or grounds) and refusing to leave until criminal charges are brought against X, Y and Z.
And Stucky: did you have a bad experience with the Police? What’s with the blanket condemnation of such a large and diverse group of human beings? Did you get a speeding ticket? Did an MP drag your drunk ass out of the NCO Club and drop you in the “drunk tank” until morning? Or did you get Sanduskied?
And it does seem every time OWS comes out with some individual’s list of demands or solutions they seem to require MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL AND SOCIALISM. You know we’ll eventually run out of other people’s money.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
14th November 2011 at 5:26 pm
Stucky says:
thc
I have my reasons for hating police. There are many. This is not the time and place.
But let me just liken it to a high school student “serving” as a Hall Monitor. Do they still have those? Anyway, they were usually dweeb outcasts, nerds, losers. But they turned into real dickwads once they got even that teensy weensie little bit of power.
Most police are like that. Power hungry. Egotistical. God complex. Narcissist. What kind of person even considers a career as a cop? People with some level of mental derangment or disease. Psychopath comes to mind.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:41 pm
Thunderbird says:
Ms Brown is a lawyer. Lawyers are carpet baggers that have helped ruin this country. Lawyers are not leaders and have no vision. They thrive on laws written to give them jobs. All Ms Brown will do is propose more arbitrary laws that cause more unintended consequences. More work for her. It would be well for the OWS movement to stear clear of her. She is poison to their movement.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
9 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:01 pm
Thunderbird says:
Stucky: The police were once helpful to the people. Now they are a threat to the people. One could get shot or beat up when confronting a police officer. I avoid them as much as I can. This could change when we decide to get rid of the people that put them into power over us. These people are mayors, govenors and the cronies around them.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
6 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:06 pm
Stucky says:
T-bird
I agree re both lawyers and cops.
My tired old refrain: It is pure bullshit to believe the police are here to protect the public. Police always and only protect those in power. Those who make the laws.
Now, in peaceful and tranquil times the function of police works just fine. Hell, maybe I’d even admit they “are my freind”. But in difficult and corrupt times (like now), well … see my tired old refrain.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:21 pm
Dave says:
Stucky says:
“I know you love OWS. I still like some of the things they are doing. But, in many cases they are diametrically opposed to the very things you often write about here. That may present quite a conundrum for you at some point.”
Nah, Jim thinks he will be one of the leaders in the new “balanced: world order.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
14th November 2011 at 6:36 pm
KaD says:
So Stucky, are you saying that’s the kind of world you want? Is that the kind of world you want for your kids? The radically unfair world? The kill or be killed world? The fuck everyone over before someone fucks you over world? That’s how the 1% play the game; he who dies with the most toys wins. How’s that working out for most people, do you think? I feel sorry for people who are SO heavily invested in the material world they can’t get their mindset beyond it. They’re in for a big fucking shock over the next few years.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
14th November 2011 at 6:37 pm
Stucky says:
Where did I say that’s the kind of world I WANT? Where?? I don’t understand the basis of your question.
I believe that’s the world we’ll get. It appears we are on an unstoppable downward spiral … morally, spiritually, economically, politically, socially and literally every other human endeavor. We really haven’t made much progress since the Days of Noah.
That’s the reality I see .. but wish we could avert.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1
14th November 2011 at 6:49 pm
thc0655 says:
Chris Rock explains “How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:24 pm
Kill Bill says:
That’s how the 1% play the game; he who dies with the most toys wins. -KaD
Wait. So the person who collects the most stuff wins even though all their stuff is left behind?
What fools these toy barons are.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 8:26 pm
Colma Rising says:
This list isn’t official, as Stuchenfried and Admin said. This is a list by supporters… not OWS.
Eventually, when co-opted by those simply demanding CONCESSIONS from the system, we will be sure. Such would crack the movement in half, much to the glee of tptb.
After all, no concession is permanent, and no demand of any libertarian or statist sort will mean an ounce of shit if the systemic corruption which has become the hallmark of civil and private actions is not adressed effectively.
Until then, a list like this or any from hoytie-tooytie intellectuals is a pipe dream.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 8:31 pm
Kill Bill says:
Ayn Rand teaches the exact opposite of what Jesus was said to have taught.
I find it a conundrum already that many Christian conservatives hold her ideology up.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 8:36 pm
Anonymous says:
Admin says “This is the official website of OWS.
http://occupywallst.org/“.
OccupyWallSt.org says:
“OccupyWallSt.org is the unofficial de facto online resource for the growing occupation movement happening on Wall Street and around the world.”
Hmmmm. I was going to make the point about who the hell is in charge to make an “official” site, when the site itself makes the point that it is fact the unofficial site. Far as I can tell, there are no leaders, no formal agenda, no direction, etc.
And when I read the plans/demands of any group or person purporting to be OWS-ites, I gag. A common thread seems to be that they want more government, more entitlements (which they, as do most groups, label as “rights” in order to make them seem less like entitlements), etc. I think this movement will be a talking point for a long time, but it will take a finacial collapse to wake people up. And I think that the boulder named “Collapse” is steadily gaining momentum as it rolls down the hill toward the massed sheeple.
OWS may not in fact dissolve, but it seems to me to be losing relevence daily. Who knows what the truth is. But to me it appears that the “movement” is descending increasingly into rabble.
Like or Dislike:
4 
2
14th November 2011 at 9:13 pm
Anonymous says:
Here are a few quotes from the official/unofficial website, the link to which the Admin posted:
“this site was brought to you by various radicals”
“Solidarity Forever!”
“the only solution is WorldRevolution”
“Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement”
“it is a better day for the 99% in Ohio. Yesterday on Tuesday, November 8, Ohio voters overwhelmingly Repealed Senate Bill 5. The bill, just passed by the Ohio legislature in March, removed the ability of public employees to engage in one of the most fundamental rights known to working people — collective bargaining.”
“Occupy Wall Street and Teamsters to Occupy Sotheby’s Tonight”
“fights for liberation of all marginalized groups from below and to the left.”
I could keep posting quotes on and on in a similar vein.
If this is the official website, then I need to modify the opinion I have held about OWS. I would modify it to be that OWS is a stinking, left-wing, communist/socialist, union-infested, public-servant protecting, pile of shit. They make the conclusion that all wealth is ill-gotten and evil. Fuck them. Seriously.
Hot debate. What do you think?
5 
3
14th November 2011 at 9:29 pm
llpoh says:
Sorry about the anon posts above – they were me, LLPOH. Bring it on, all you OWS supporters. If that site is anything to go by, OWS is total bullshit.
Hot debate. What do you think?
7 
4
14th November 2011 at 9:30 pm
Mary Malone says:
Dragline: The authors of it were well aware that there was some danger that by listing a series of rights, it would later be interpreted as “that’s all you get”.
Yes.
Central to their thinking was if government grants us our rights, government can take them away.
We’re seeing that play out today. Obama and his cronies are Statists. They believe that all rights are bestowed upon the people by the State.
The author of this article is a Statist.
Are OWS Statists? I dunno.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 10:02 pm
GoldWerewolf says:
I told you. This movement will be coopted. Libertarian revolutionary theory is changing. I truly believe that revolution awaits us. It will be a very scary time.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 10:02 pm
Stucky says:
llpoh
You’re just like an OWS protestor …. just itching for a fight with Admin.
You are about to be crucified.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
14th November 2011 at 10:05 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – Crucified my ass – he posted the link. He said it was the official site. It was a stinking pile of shit – truly. He needs to hang his head in shame. I have enough ammo for a full scale war – quote after quote of, as Mary put it, “union marxist” cabalism. He needs to distance himself from that shit ASAP. He needs to post as SSS type mea culpa piece. He needs to say 150 Hail Mary’s. He needs to cover himself in ashes and wonder what on earth ever caused him to post that link and say it was the official site. That was an A-grade screw the pooch. Here he is caught in tha act:
Hot debate. What do you think?
7 
3
14th November 2011 at 10:14 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – Admin fights hard and dirty, for sure. Too bad for him he posted that link.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2
14th November 2011 at 10:16 pm
Stucky says:
Admin said his next two featured articles will be about OWS.
I anticipate one helluva good battle between you two.
Me … I’m starting to sour on the group. Mebbe Jimmeh will bring me back into the fold. Mebbe I’ll be your ally. We shall see.
G;night, mate!
Like or Dislike:
4 
1
14th November 2011 at 10:26 pm
Kill Bill says:
In Bizarro World everyone detests government corruption and lambaste those that protest it.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 11:00 pm
Novista says:
Has anyone here ever heard of Ellen Brown before?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:24 am
flash says:
It seems there are only two paths from which to choose.More control by bigger government self-endowed with broader police power or the decentralization of power.
The two articles linked below support decentralization and in fact Gary North’s article goes a step farther in claiming the demise of the nations state inevitable.
Personally ,I think Gary North underestimates the power of the state.A license to kill , coupled with the all encompassing power over commerce, food and travel is sure to be a game changer for any would be challengers of the state, as any who’ve ever served in the military can attest.
IMO,Semi -autos against the awesome armaments of AC-130H/U gunship and drones loaded with hellfire missiles would be a sad spectacle to witness ,indeed.
http://www.garynorth.com/public/8720.cfm
This was also understood by van Creveld, who focused on the inability of the modern state to provide peace within its own borders. People want peace, and the modern nation-state developed on the basis of a promise, namely, that it would supply this peace. Now that promise is looking faded. Furthermore, those who hope in the state to provide their welfare for them in the future are going to be disappointed. They had better find other ways of gaining their status and their income than by relying on the nation-state. He sees that there will be a time of decentralization, in which local communities, local corporations, and local associations begin to replace the role of the modern welfare state.
The nation-state has rested on a series of promises. Nisbet, Barzun, and van Creveld agree: the state is failing to deliver the goods. This is undermining the state’s legitimacy, and it will lead to decentralization. That is another word for fragmentation. It will lead to greater liberty for some people and less liberty for others. But will almost certainly lead to greater economic productivity, as long as peace is maintained. Technology will continue to develop. Education will move out of the control of the state. There will be new ways of learning, new ways of organizing, new ways of delivering the goods.
http://dumpdc.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/secession-versus-balkanization/
Conclusion
My friend Kerodin has some very valid concerns about our futures. I shared those same concerns about America back in the ‘90s. But I found that America’s path is away from liberty, and Washington’s path is a bullet train toward tyranny and monopoly. I discovered that the only chance that Liberty has on CONUS is through secession. Friends, stop thinking nationally. Start thinking small government. Then think smaller. That’s were Liberty will live in our futures.
Secession is the Hope for Mankind. Who will be first?
DumpDC. Six Letters That Can Change History.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:12 am
flash says:
And, if any think we’re going to return the US to a fantasy form of limited government via stuffing the ballot box , well then that’s just laughable as Stefan Molyneux most thoroughly points out.
Sorry for busting anyone’s bubble,but those with the guns make the rules.
True News 5: The Truth About Voting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:18 am
Petey says:
It’s funny because the government is trying to provide many of those rights she has listed (education, healthcare, housing, a job, etc.) and look at the crisis we are in. Unfortunately in her effort to sound novel and intellectual she actually is demanding the status quo. Of course, she would probably reason that “the government is trying hard enough” or “if everyone would just get along and believe what I believe….” etc. etc. Also, pure fiat leads to hyperinflation as discussed on here before.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:36 am
Petey says:
“the government is not trying hard enough”
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:37 am
flash says:
LOL…a video for any still pulling the Cain-Train.
This guy has got to one of the most ignorant neocon puppets the Rethuglicans have ever propped up.I think his 15 minutes in the sun is ’bout up.
Herman Cain on Libya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW_nDFKAmCo
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:37 am
Administrator says:
LLPOH
Here is my well thought out response to your drivel. Go fuck yourself.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1
14th November 2011 at 7:52 am
flash says:
LOl..I saw this over at http://www.garynorth.com/public/8733.cfm
“Ellen Brown leans so far to the left that her left shoulder scrapes the pavement.”
Gary North
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 9:03 am
Dave says:
“Administrator says:
LLPOH
Here is my well thought out response to your drivel. Go fuck yourself.”
Ahh..more well thought out educational responses.
Like or Dislike:
1 
4
14th November 2011 at 9:37 am
TeresaE says:
flash says:
And, if any think we’re going to return the US to a fantasy form of limited government via stuffing the ballot box , well then that’s just laughable as Stefan Molyneux most thoroughly points out.
I live in a highly weighted union/government town of about 100k.
The unions get voting day off, paid. The schools shut down (to protect kids from voters, we vote at schools), city hall shuts down. City of Detroit, County of Wayne, State of Michigan, all closed and all paid. Big private industries w/unions, like Ford, GM, Chrysler, the energy/gas companies, cable, phone, etc ALL get paid to vote, usually overtime.
The rest of us, that pay every freaking salary of all the above through theft, tax, fine, or by debt, don’t get paid.
Throw in some great new voting procedures, things like minimal advertising or signage at voting places, little local promotion of the date except via unions for unions, the removal of incumbent status, and in this last local election even the removal of party affiliation for the local guys and we whom pay haven’t a freaking chance.
I’m thinking November 2012 is the last time I vote, it is just too fucking depressing, and around here, futile. The freaking union members always vote for the socialists, always for raising taxes on us evil small landlords and businesses, always. They continue to vote back the same career politicians that got us into this mess because the city council continues to vote them great contracts.
FUBAR. These leeches will suck and vote and suck and vote and suck and vote until the hosts are either dead, or greedily giving up and sucking along with the rest.
Barring all out financial Armageddon from outside forces, I foresee no other end. We have reached the tipping point of damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Fiat on.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 9:43 am
Darwin's Money says:
“the right to a home”… Isn’t that part of the problem that got us into the housing mess? Barney Frank’s social experiment? Many people shouldn’t be homeowners plain and simple. It’s not for everyone. And how would the government provide a home to everyone who wants one regardless of economic contribution? Doesn’t make any sense.
“right to a job”. There are millions of unfilled job positions in the country now. No exaggeration, there are millions. BusienssWeek just did a piece this week on all the jobs Americans won’t do. Granted, they might seem like “crappy” jobs now, but these are jobs Americans historically did prior to the immigration flood. So, when Alabama enacted a law making it riskier to hire illegals, they all left. And now that these jobs are posted for Americans with paperwork, they won’t do them. The jobs are just sitting unfilled. So, there are jobs; maybe just not the ones people want or think they’re entitled to.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 10:13 am
Mary Malone says:
Flash: ” Friends, stop thinking nationally. Start thinking small government. Then think smaller. That’s were Liberty will live in our futures.”
I agree. How free individual Americans will be in the future will depend on the state in which they live. That’s why Tea Party changed direction after 2010 mid-terms to local government.
Many Americans are working within their states to restore the 2nd Amendment, tell the truth about public pension shortfalls and push back the sustainability movement.
They are working with local government to enact laws that protect our rights and private property. Energy independence is a big part of the equation too. The states that drill for natural gas, oil will be stronger economically. Just look at North Dakota, Texas, parts of PA where drilling is in full swing. They’re prosperous and thriving.
The Blue States are gonna be a horror show. NY, NJ, MI, IL, CA, VT, MA, Maryland, et al have accumulated enormous debt that can never be repaid. Their public pensions are in worse shape than many recognize because of a little known factor called smoothing.
These public workers will never get the benefits and dough they were promised. Violence, austerity will take hold.
IMHO we’re at the point where we all need to make and execute plans for our families. It goes beyond food storage. We need to start thinking about an escape route to a state or country where we can start over and be free.
My hope and prayer is that we are given more time to prepare ourselves.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 10:51 am
Westcliffe Jeff says:
I have no right to make a demand on anyone that encroaches upon their rightful sphere of liberty. Roosevelt’s “rights” tended to do that, as did half his “four freedoms”, which institutionalized state-based slavery.
To believe the state can provide all needs (and a lot of desires) for all people is the turf of the naive–of those who tend not to think about the consequences of such actions. The state can promise security, but it delivers it only by reducing liberty.
“Security is the chief enemy of mortals.”
–William Shakespeare
“But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it…”
–John Adams to Abigail Adams – July 7, 1775
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
–Benjamin Franklin, 1775
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 11:03 am
flash says:
Mary-The Blue States are gonna be a horror show. NY, NJ, MI, IL, CA, VT, MA, Maryland, et al have accumulated enormous debt that can never be repaid.
Personally, i think Red state ,Blue state dichotomy is irrelevant at this point.The real horror will be residing in the high poverty regions .Hordes of hungry people stuck in a hopeless situation will not be conducive to law and order, that’s fer shure.
At this point,I’m really not looking forward the future. I need to stock up on more scotch.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 11:58 am
flash says:
Mary, here’s another more current poverty map.
Looks like we’re all Red States now.
I hear people all the time poo pooing the poor in this country , by saying the US has the fattest poor people in the world and while yes, that’s true, let the welfare come to a halt and we’ll likely bear witness to how dangerous fat people will become when put on a forced diet.
And, while most may not want to work, those who do can’t because there aren’t any jobs for them.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/sep/15/us-poverty-mapped
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 12:38 pm
llpoh says:
Admin. – I appreciate the offer, buut no thanks.
You post a link to the “official” OWS site and actually use the content of that site to win an argument, effectively as it is the definiitive source. I go through the source at some link, expecting to find some insight into OWS. But what do I find – a left-wing, union-infested, big-governmment, public servant roghts manifesto.
Seriously Admin,those folks that created the site (I won’t go so far as saying all of OWS) are anathema to the things I believe in.
I cannot believe you support what is on that site in any way. By using them as a reference you seem to be endorsing them, especially as you called it the “official” site, your generally pro-OWS position, and using it to refute an argument.
I am trying to be as open-minded as I can about OWS, but what was on that site was bullshit.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1
14th November 2011 at 3:45 pm
Administrator says:
llpoh
You are referencing comments made on the OWS site. You are not referencing the articles posted on the site. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Just like your bullshit about all 45,000 Penn State students being assholes because 200 did something violent.
You’re views are too black and white for my taste. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2
14th November 2011 at 3:53 pm
Administrator says:
OPEN MINDED MY FAT ASS. YOU’RE FULL OF SHIT. YOU’VE HATED OWS FROM DAY 1
HERE IS LLPOH’S BRAIN BEING OPEN MINDED
Like or Dislike:
3 
1
14th November 2011 at 3:57 pm
llpoh says:
Never said that about the students to my knowledge.
Said I was trying to be not was open minded.
I think you have lost the plot and the ideal of OWS is more important than the reality to you.
Good luck with that.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1
14th November 2011 at 4:05 pm
llpoh says:
Referencing comments made by those that run it.
Like or Dislike:
1 
2
14th November 2011 at 4:07 pm
Administrator says:
LLPOH
Provide me the links. I love facts that I can verify. I see no comments from those running the site anywhere.
Pure bullshit. You see what you want to see because if verifies what you want to believe.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2
14th November 2011 at 4:11 pm
Administrator says:
The Shirt I wear when debating with open minded LLPOH
Like or Dislike:
3 
1
14th November 2011 at 4:12 pm
Administrator says:
LLPOH’s Cat
Like or Dislike:
3 
2
14th November 2011 at 4:19 pm
Administrator says:
LLPOH with the profound statement last night that OWS was losing relevance.
Within a few hours the NYPD was swooping down on the encampment to destroy it. If it is losing relevance, why is the establishment so upset? Won’t it drift off into nothingness since it isn’t relevant?
I believe LLPOH said it would be over in a few weeks about two months ago.
Keep providing your wisdom. Boomers are always sure and never right.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1
14th November 2011 at 4:24 pm
efarmer says:
How do you guys always know what everyone else is thinking?
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 4:28 pm
Administrator says:
THIS IS THE DESCRIPTION ON THE OWS SITE. NOT THE BULLSHIT INFO PROVIDED BY LLPOH:
About
OccupyWallSt.org is the unofficial de facto online resource for the growing occupation movement happening on Wall Street and around the world. We’re an affinity group committed to doing technical support work for resistance movements. We’re not a subcommittee of the NYCGA nor affiliated with Adbusters, anonymous or any other organization.
Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan’s Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.
The occupations around the world are being organized using a non-binding consensus based collective decision making tool known as a “people’s assembly”. To learn more about how to use this process to organize your local community to fight back against social injustice, please read this quick guide on group dynamics in people’s assemblies.
Solidarity Forever!
Like or Dislike:
0 
2
14th November 2011 at 4:31 pm
Administrator says:
MORE ACTUAL VERBIAGE DIRECTLY FROM THE FRONT PAGE OF THE OWS SITE. NOT THE BULLSHIT FROM LLPOH:
Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.
This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don’t need Wall Street and we don’t need politicians to build a better society.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 4:33 pm
Stucky says:
llpoh getting gang raped
Like or Dislike:
3 
1
14th November 2011 at 4:36 pm
Administrator says:
Stuck
I’ve been frantically searching the OWS website trying to find the leftist marxist statements by the leaders of the site. My research skills must be deteriorating as I can’t find anything on the site to support LLPOH’s blatant lies and misinformation.
If he is referencing comments on articles, that would be like saying Smokey’s views and David Pierre’s views are the views of TBP.
It is a sad day for the Boomer generation when such pathetic drivel is what counts for facts in LLPOH’s warped world.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 4:46 pm
Administrator says:
Looks like LLPOH’s only pathetic response to my obliteration of his specious nonsense is to give me a thumbs down.
I wonder if he has the balls to ever post on the site again, or will he crawl away like that cur Smokey.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1
14th November 2011 at 4:52 pm
Stucky says:
Jim
With all due respect, maybe you haven’t been looking hard enough.
Below is a “communiqué” from the website. There are things I STRONGLY agree with. On the other hand, there are also things that I find abhorrent. I’ll leave it at that, for now.
======================================================================
A Message From Occupied Wall Street (Day Five)
Posted 1 month ago on Sept. 22, 2011, 3:51 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Note: Our use of the one demand is a rhetorical device. This is NOT an official list of demands.Click Here to learn more about how you can participate in the democratic process of choosing the “one demand”.
This is the fifth communiqué from the 99 percent. We are occupying Wall Street
On September 21st, 2011, Troy Davis, an innocent man, was murdered by the state of Georgia. Troy Davis was one of the 99 percent.
———- Ending capital punishment is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, the richest 400 Americans owned more wealth than half of the country’s population.
———- Ending wealth inequality is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, four of our members were arrested on baseless charges.
———- Ending police intimidation is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, we determined that Yahoo lied about occupywallst.org being in spam filters.
———- Ending corporate censorship is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, roughly eighty percent of Americans thought the country was on the wrong track.
———- Ending the modern gilded age is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, roughly 15% of Americans approved of the job Congress was doing.
———- Ending political corruption is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, roughly one sixth of Americans did not have work.
———- Ending joblessness is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, roughly one sixth of America lived in poverty.
———- Ending poverty is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, roughly fifty million Americans were without health insurance.
———- Ending health-profiteering is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, America had military bases in around one hundred and thirty out of one hundred and sixty-five countries.
———- Ending American imperialism is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, America was at war with the world.
———- Ending war is our one demand.
On September 21st, 2011, we stood in solidarity with Madrid, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Madison, Toronto, London, Athens, Sydney, Stuttgart, Tokyo, Milan, Amsterdam, Algiers, Tel Aviv, Portland and Chicago. Soon we will stand with Phoenix, Montreal, Cleveland and Atlanta. We’re still here. We are growing. We intend to stay until we see movements toward real change in our country and the world.
You have fought all the wars. You have worked for all the bosses. You have wandered over all the countries. Have you harvested the fruits of your labors, the price of your victories? Does the past comfort you? Does the present smile on you? Does the future promise you anything? Have you found a piece of land where you can live like a human being and die like a human being? On these questions, on this argument, and on this theme, the struggle for existence, the people will speak. Join us.
We speak as one. All of our decisions, from our choice to march on Wall Street to our decision to continue occupying Liberty Square, were decided through a consensus based process by the group, for the group.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 4:58 pm
Administrator says:
Stuck
Not a bad list. Not much I disagree with. The specifics will need to be worked out, but a fine list indeed. Thanks for posting.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:18 pm
llpoh says:
Admin – “posted by Occupy Wall Street” one after another on the link provided. And you think the quotes you posted are not leftist-leaning crap? All of the quotes I posted previously came off of that site. Find them yourself. And the vast majority of stuff is credited to “posted by Occupy Wall Street”.
You said “If it is losing relevance, why is the establishment so upset? Won’t it drift off into nothingness since it isn’t relevant?” Well, my reading seems to suggest that a lot of pressure is coming from the local business community that is being severelly damaged by the protesters. These business folks are losing thoudsands per day. Their customers are intimidated by the protestors and so are avoiding their businesses. Protesters are camping out in the local coffee shops and the shop owners are too scared of reprisal to evict them. The protesters camp out inside out of the cold and do not buy much, but prevent other customers from using the facilities. Protesters use the bathrooms for change areas, trash disposal, etc., further damaging business. Business owners come to work and find human feces in front of their shops. (Nice, huh?).
Local residents are also complaining, of course- the smell, the intimidation they feel real or imagined, the hygiene conditions.
Then there are the reports of the criminal activity in the camps. The above reports I am convinced are true. I am les certain about the reports of criminal activities, but it seems reasonable to me that unsavory types would gravitate to the camp in order to take advantage of what is on offer.
I believe that many groups wanted to co-opt the OWS movement. I have long suspected that left leaning groups and the professional protesters (i.e. unionists) would eventually have serious significance. I think that is happening it the website is any indication.
I think the shotgun approach to the 1% is bullshit. The movement seems to be after anyone in that bracket. That is bullshit.
I notice that they are targeting Sotheby’s. Sothebys? Because the CEO makes aa lot of money. and because they are in the middle of union negotiations. So that makes them a target. I do not know anything much about Sothebys, but I really doubt that they are causing severe damage to the 99%.
I am not ignoring you, Admin – I just had to take a break. Keep pouring the crap. I stood back and watched this OWS for a while as if you were supportive it was worth considering. It is now clear to me that despite their relevence or otherwise, this is notng that I would ever support.
And as to my own personal leanings, I recently read that those that have “pulled themselves up by their bootstraps”, so to speak, have a very ingrained belief that others should do the same. That is for sure my natural inclination.
You very much want to see things changed, which I admire. But in my opinion, anyone hitching their cart to this OWS stuff is going to get covered in shit.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:27 pm
llpoh says:
I may be wrong, as I am no constitutional scholar, but my understanding is that the right of assembly was meant as a means for the public to petition (specifically) congress. I do not believe that right of assembly should be used to damage and or target businesses. OWS is doing that very thing. I cannot agree that that is appropriate.
Stuck – as general mothehood statements those are in general fine. I particularly have issue with the “Ending wealth inequality is our one demand.” This is totally undefined.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:33 pm
Stucky says:
llpoh
Sorry. I just gotta call bullshit. Businesses are being hurt? You’re kidding, right?
The only business that has been hurt was hurt due to POLICE BARRACADES blocking the entrance! We told you this before. Stop ignoring it.
Are you telling me thousands upon thousands of folks visiting Zuccotti is BAD for business?? WTF? My sister, son and myself spent money there that would have never been spent otherwise. Now multiply that by tens of thousands weekly!
Customers are “intimidated” by protestors? You are totally full of shit. I hate to say that, but it’s true. Wherever the fuck you get your news from … please STOP.
Crime??? What crime? An isolated incident here and there ….. which is to be EXPECTED in that large and diverse a group … and you cry foul? Jeezus Fucking Krist. Ten times more murders and robberies were committed in Harlem in the past two months!! Fucking Red Herring bullshit .. quite a surprise coming from you.
You sound like a Mayor Bloomberg shill.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1
14th November 2011 at 5:52 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – call bullshit all you want. Protesters lodged in at the local coffe shops not moving. Goldman Sachs employees – the bread and butter of many of these businesses avoiding the place like the plague (go figure). Protesters using the bathrooms as change areas. Crap on the sidewalks. Etc. The businessmen protesting themselves – all bullshit of course. Do a bit of reading, my man. What I have read, including interviews from businessmen involved, seems to me to be credible. One can never be sure, of course.
Oh, and by the way – go fuck yourself.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 5:58 pm
Stucky says:
Jim / llpoh
I guess I had problems with two demands
1) ——- “Ending poverty is our one demand.” — Well, who would be against ending poverty? Not me! But I have just one question. How?? Didn’t LBJ start the war on poverty? Not going too well, is it? I guess I’m reading between the lines when I read “end poverty” — what I read is massive government intervention. Yuck.
2) —— “Ending health-profiteering is our one demand.” —- Really? Health providors can’t make a profit? They said “fifty million Americans were without health insurance”. So, it seems pretty clear they support Obama Care. Yuck.
.
.
And then there are these two;
1) Ending political corruption
2) Ending war
OK. Good luck wif dat. Who the fuck came up with these 3rd grader fantasy wishes? It’s a bit hard to take someone seriously when they have no clue about Reality.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:02 pm
llpoh says:
Some links re the damage done by OWS protesters to business:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/new-york-post-ows-protestors-costing-local-business-half-a-million-dollars-so-far/
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/morehead-ky/TBPCKNJ6BFK7AA1NB
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/133796083.html
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1703865/pg1
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/11/downtown-business-owners-protest-obama-endorsed-occupy-wall-street-killing-their-bizhurt.html
Some of these sites are terribly slanted. However, there is no doubt in my mind that the OWS protesters are damaging local business, and that they (some of them, anyway) are intimidating customers, and that some of them are behaving terribly.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1
14th November 2011 at 6:09 pm
llpoh says:
Some links re businesses being hurt by the OWS protesters. Some are very slanted but I believe there can be no doubt about business being hurt, protesters intimidating customers, and acting in very disgusting manners (some of them at least).
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/11/downtown-business-owners-protest-obama-endorsed-occupy-wall-street-killing-their-bizhurt.html
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1703865/pg1
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Occupy-Wall-Street-Protest-of-the-Protest-Businesses-Residents-City-Hall-133796083.html
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/11/14/local-businesses-protest-ows/
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=108985
http://pumabydesign001.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/occupy-wall-street-fed-up-nyc-business-owners-plan-counter-protest-against-ows-11152011/
http://www.owsexposed.com/2011/11/14/angry-residents-and-businesses-planning-anti-occupy-protest/
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/small-business-owner-counter-protest-ows-20111114-lgf
There are many more reports available. Some sources are suspect entirely. But the quotes/reports of unhappy businessmen/intimidation by and fear of reprisal from the protesters seems credible.
When confronted by a differing view, you attack the credibility of the sources used (gee – now there is a great tactic) and then label someone a shill. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:27 pm
llpoh says:
Sorry for the double post. There was a delay and I thought I had lost the first of them so re-sent some. Also, it crossed my mind that maybe I had pissed off the Admin that he decided to stop my stream of bullshit.
He and I do not see eye-to-eye on this stuff at all. That does not in any way affect my general admiration of what he is trying to do, and in his commitment to get things changed. I have a very black and white view of this stuff – and there is no doubt that a lot of what I read pisses me off about OWS. I am trying to keep an open mind – Admin is correct in his view that I am not exactly successful at that – and see if I can see any possibilities that something other than free advertising may come out of it.
The media is full of bullshit that cannot be trusted. So is the OWS site. It is difficult to get accurate info, and what info there is gets filtered through one’s own personal prism. Anything that I see that indicates a business owner is getting hurt by the protest catches my attention in a pretty major way. I have a soft spot for business folks. They have it hard enough without anyone or anything – government, OWS, EPA, unions, OSHA, etc adding to it.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:39 pm
Stucky says:
Go fuck myself?? Wow. Saying that to your buddy? You sure you wanna go down that road?
You tell me to do some reading. Why? I’ve been there. Jim’s been there. howard’s been there. Despite all your reading you totally ignore first hand reports.
EVERYTHING you say about the conditions at Zuccotti is pure bullshit. This offends you for some reason and so you resort to a “fuck yourself” comeback … even though I share some of the same concerns you have about OWS.
You hurt my feelings. Bad. Real bad.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 6:45 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – how do you think I felt when you said “You sound like a Mayor Bloomberg shill.” That is offensive in the extreme. The rest of the stuff – fair enough if that is what you think.
But that Bloomberg comment is really offensive. And it hurt MY feelings. It questions MY integrity – that I am in someone’s pocket. My comment was not aimed at your integrity but because it seemed to me you questioned mine. Perhaps I over interpretted what you wrote.
Like or Dislike:
1 
1
14th November 2011 at 6:53 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – I apologize for hurting your feelings. My intent was not that, but to point out you had in fact hurt mine.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1
14th November 2011 at 6:53 pm
Stucky says:
OK — I’m sorry for offending you too.
I suspect there will be a lot more shit-flinging once Jim writes his upcoming OWS article. It appears that for most the battle lines have been drawn … minds made up … and woe unto those who disagree.
Me? I’m all over the fuckin map.
1. I started out posting pictures insulting OWS.
2. Then I went to Zuccotti park and really really liked it.
3. Then the Strauss article confirmed my fears OWS just wants bigger g’ment, and I liked them less.
4. Then cops all over act like thugs and I’m hoping OWS stands up to them.
5. Then I read their “official” website and became both hopeful and disgusted.
Every day there’s new data and I adjust accordingly. What else can one do?
Like or Dislike:
3 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:01 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – I do not think any single issue has generated as much true angst on this site as this OWS issue. Re your points immediately above, I largely concur. I never really swung into the OWS camp, but despite what the Admin says, because of you and him, I was trying to give them a bit of a chance, which is difficult given my proclivities.
Your #s 3,4, and 5 made an impression on me as well. Except that your #5 made much more of a negative impression, and re 4) I think it is lunacy to challenge the cops at this time as there is insufficient lack of numbers. Also, Casey’s interview where he rightfully points out that they seem to be attacking all 1% ers, not just the problem folks. I too am in that group, and I can assure anyone I have no impact lobbying for changes in laws. It is all I can do to prevent the local government from closing down my business due to planning issues.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0
14th November 2011 at 7:15 pm
howard in nyc says:
you guys sure are having fun.
let me jump in.
llpoh, you are not a 1% er. i don’t care if you have $100 million in the bank. you are not in that club.
your identifying with them is misguided. but whatever.
one of the flaws, is you perceive yourself an object of attack by OWS.
oh, because many folks would like you to pay more taxes. heh. let me tell you something bubba, the folks who want you to pay more taxes are hardly limited to the OWS crowd.
but that is not the point. that is beside the point. people are not out in the street to demand alterations to the tax code. shit, herman cain wants to drastically alter the tax code.
the point is political power. the struggle is not a legal one, nor is it a legislative/regulatory one. it sure ain’t over the top marginal tax rate being 34% or 37% or 40%.
the point is who controls the policy. who controls dc. who controls the structure and function of our government. the people or the 1%.
you belong to the former, and not the latter.
you guys play nice now. i don’t want anyone to end up crying.
Like or Dislike:
4 
0
14th November 2011 at 8:01 pm
llpoh says:
Howie – Maybe they should call it “We are not the 400″ then – and maybe I would find that more acceptable.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 8:05 pm
howard in nyc says:
its just a slogan. a pretty clever one, i think. but don’t worry, you’re cool. i have you one the good list.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0
14th November 2011 at 8:07 pm