What is it with these morons? When I was the Controller of the IKEA Real Estate division we built 9 new stores in 10 months. I produced the budgets for these projects with our construction and real estate teams. The total budget for these stores was $1 billion and the final costs totaled $990 million. How can these nuclear industry assholes have a $2.5 billion budget and come in at $4.5 billion? You’d think these projects were being run by ex-CIA agents and ex-US Air Force officers for Christ sakes. With these kind of cost overruns, these project managers are top candidates for Federal government jobs running Obamacare. With natural gas selling for less than $3, why would a utility company invest billions to build a nuclear plant rather than a natural gas powered plant?
America’s New Nuclear Plants Cost Billions More Than Expected
ATLANTA (AP) — America’s first new nuclear plants in more than a decade are costing billions more to build and sometimes taking longer to deliver than planned, problems that could chill the industry’s hopes for a jumpstart to the nation’s new nuclear age.
Licensing delay charges, soaring construction expenses and installation glitches as mundane as misshapen metal bars have driven up the costs of three plants in Georgia, Tennessee and South Carolina, from hundreds of millions to as much as $2 billion, according to an Associated Press analysis of public records and regulatory filings.
Those problems, along with jangled nerves from last year’s meltdown in Japan and the lure of cheap natural gas, could discourage utilities from sinking cash into new reactors, experts said. The building slowdown would be another blow to the so-called nuclear renaissance, a drive over the past decade to build 30 new reactors to meet the country’s growing power needs. Industry watchers now say that only a handful will be built this decade.
“People are looking at these things very carefully,” said Richard Lester, head of the department of nuclear science and engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Inexpensive gas alone, he said, “is casting a pretty long shadow over the prospects” for construction of new nuclear plants.
The AP’s review of pending projects found:
— Plant Vogtle in eastern Georgia, initially estimated to cost $14 billion, has run into over $800 million in extra charges related to licensing delays. A state monitor has said bluntly that co-owner Southern Co. can’t stick to its budget. The plant, whose first reactor was supposed to be operational by April 2016, is now delayed seven months.
— The long-mothballed Watts Bar power plant in eastern Tennessee, initially budgeted at $2.5 billion, will cost up to $2 billion more , the Tennessee Valley Authority concluded this spring. The utility said its initial budget underestimated how much work was needed to finish the plant and wasted money by not completing more design work before starting construction. The project had been targeted to finish in 2012, but has been postponed until 2015.
— Plant Summer in South Carolina, expected to cost around $10.5 billion, has seen costs jump by $670 million; but with lower interest rates and cheaper-than-expected labor; the owners assert the project is still on or under budget. A deadline to put the first new reactor online has been delayed from 2016 to 2017; the second reactor is now eight months ahead of schedule, targeted for early 2018.
Southern Co. and others in the nuclear business say cost overruns are expected in projects this complex, and that they are balanced out by other savings over the life of the plant. Southern Co. expects Plant Vogtle will cost $2 billion less to operate over its 60-year lifetime than initially projected because of anticipated tax breaks and historically low interest rates.
Regulators have been trying to make it easier to build, encouraging the use of off-the-shelf reactor designs that get approval in advance. New construction techniques are supposed to require less in-the-field assembly, making building quicker and reducing human error. Interest rates and labor costs have been down after a bruising recession.
“It’s a down environment economically,” said Steve Byrne, president of generation and transmission for SCANA’s South Carolina Electric & Gas Co., one of the utilities building Plant Summer’s reactors. “It’s terrible for the country, but it’s a great time to be building” a nuclear facility.
But the economy is also working against progress on new construction. The next company in line to build, Progress Energy, has pushed back construction plans for two reactors in Florida because of the economy, low demand and extremely cheap natural gas. It expects its first new reactor to be finished in 2024.
The plants burning natural gas are far cheaper to build than nuclear power plants. But utility executives say they need a diversified mix of power plants, including nuclear, because relying too heavily on a single fuel like natural gas backfires if prices go up.
The rising construction costs hit an industry already under financial pressure, after meltdowns last year at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant after a tsunami in Japan. NRG Energy wrote off a $481 million investment in two planned reactors in Texas shortly after the accident, citing uncertainties after the Japanese disaster. Other utilities still seeking to build have said they expect the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission will adopt new safety rules in response to the accident; they cannot predict the exact costs.
Industry leaders say the soaring costs could threaten projects that are worth the investment, and send the wrong message to the public.
“It’s important to get this project done right because if every time we build a nuclear plant we go substantially over budget, ratepayers will begin to believe we can’t do a nuclear project on budget,” said Tim Echols, a nuclear power proponent who chairs Georgia’s Public Service Commission.
An earlier push to expand the reach of nuclear power in the 1970s was thwarted by a number of obstacles: Electric companies overestimated demand and designed plants they didn’t need. They had trouble managing massive construction workforces. Utilities designed nuclear plants as they built, leading to mistakes and slowdowns. Interest rates skyrocketed and the 1979 meltdown at the Three Mile Island nuclear plant in Pennsylvania forced plant operators to meet new rules at additional costs.
To win approval to build at Plant Vogtle, Southern Co. had to promise it would build its plant on budget, particularly as state officials remembered the massive cost overruns that occurred when it built the plant’s two existing reactors, said Robert Baker, a former utility regulator who has criticized the project.
The utility has been authorized to spend just over $6.1 billion as its share of the estimated $14 billion project, which was tracking under budget at the end of last year.
Southern Co. is about seven months behind schedule, mostly because of the federal approval process for the reactor, according to company executives and filings. Southern Co. also faced delays in getting an important license allowing it to start building the guts of the plant.
Another, less exotic problem at Vogtle: At one point, workers built metal bars straight rather than curved, as regulators had directed, so Southern Co. had to rip them out and replace them. Crews in South Carolina, watching the progress at Vogtle, have halted the construction of those bars.
Plant Vogtle’s designers and builders — Westinghouse Electric Co. and The Shaw Group Inc. — want Southern Co. to pay an additional $400 million for the licensing delays, according to a May report filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Southern Co. subsidiary Georgia Power, which owns nearly half the new plant, denies responsibility for those costs and is negotiating on behalf of all the owners. Financial information divulged by three companies who own 98 percent of the project show $838 million in potential charges.
It is unclear how much this could cost the utility’s 2.4 million customers. Southern Co. earlier estimated typical residential customers would see a $10 increase in their monthly bills when both reactors are producing power in 2018. Utility regulators ultimately set the rates.
Similar issues have played out in central South Carolina, where SCANA Corp. and Santee Cooper won permission to build two reactors at Plant Summer, about 25 miles north of Columbia. SCANA agreed to pay $138 million in March to settle claims over licensing delays raised by the companies designing and building the reactor. Santee Cooper will pay nearly $113 million as its share of those costs, company officials said.
In May, SCANA asked utility regulators to raise its base spending on the project by $283 million, which includes the settlement related to licensing delays and extra costs for cyber security and staffing. However, the company said it will stay within its existing budget because it expects other expenses to be lower.
Supplying parts efficiently for the new reactors has also proved difficult. William Jacobs Jr., the state monitor hired by Georgia utility regulators, has publicly questioned whether a factory run by The Shaw Group can master quality control rules and deliver parts on time. NRC inspectors have faulted the facility for failing to maintain accurate records on the qualifications of workers. SCANA Corp. raised similar concerns.
Shaw spokeswoman Gentry Brann said the company has addressed the NRC’s concerns.
In Tennessee, internal reviews faulted the Tennessee Valley Authority for not providing enough oversight on the project and for allowing a culture to develop that discouraged the sharing of bad news, for example, site problems that led to delays. Not enough engineering work was finished before construction started, meaning construction workers sometimes did not have enough work to do.
In an embarrassing episode, the TVA temporarily stopped work at the site in January after two mishaps revealed safety problems. No one was injured, and the operating plant did not experience any problems. In one case, workers removed a cable connected to equipment in the working reactor. In another, they cut out valves before getting proper clearance and verifying the system was safe.
Changes have been made to bring the project under control, said Mike Skaggs, who became the authority’s senior vice president of nuclear construction in October. He said the TVA has carefully evaluated the remaining work on the reactor, slimmed down its workforce and made instructions to work crews easier to understand.
Skaggs has been involved in building two other nuclear plants and said the project requires constant monitoring.
“If you’ve got a good estimate, you use the estimate as a roadmap to complete the project,” Skaggs said. “What I’m most worried about is the assumptions we’ve made in the estimate — are they ringing out true?”
Administrator says:
SSS in disguise trying to avoid another ass kicking from Admin
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11th July 2012 at 12:38 pm
Bob says:
“”it’s a great time to be building” a nuclear facility”
NOT
I believe in advanced, safer nuclear power as a partial long-term solution. Plants under contruction now would seem unlikely to get completed anytime soon, cost overruns or not.
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11th July 2012 at 1:22 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Bring on the nuclear fusion.
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11th July 2012 at 1:36 pm
AWD says:
$2 billion cost over-run? Answer: Union labor
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11th July 2012 at 1:37 pm
Colma Rising says:
Administrator fires a proverbial mortar barrage into SSS’ bases.
Surely we will hear an unbiased response.
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11th July 2012 at 1:43 pm
SSS says:
Well, as I read through the article, I noted the words “licensing delays” popping up on a number of occasions. What I didn’t read is how much cost that particular factor has added to the budget overruns, but I’ll be willing to bet it is significant.
Here’s how these bureaucratic delays, not faced by Admin when he was involved in building new stores for Ikea, normally play out. First, a licensing delay would stop construction on the project. Are the workers getting paid while the project is dormant? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the wording of the contract.
Either way, it creates an expense that wasn’t part of the original plan. If the workers are getting paid for doing nothing, then it’s money down the drain. If they aren’t getting paid, then some (most?of them will seek work elesewhere or get on the public dole with unemployment compensation.
Either way, it creates another hiring problem for the building contractor. Once the project restarts, the contractor will have to find replacements for those workers who don’t return. Another possible delay.
And many of those workers are highly specialized in their trade. Building a nuclear power plant is a complex undertaking, with top-of-the-line electricians, plumbers, and masons needed, for example. We’re not dealing with an Ikea store or a three-bedroom residence here.
In addition, construction oversight of a nuclear plant, with an emphasis on safety requirements, is suffocating in rules and regulations. Plus the human error (Murphy’s Law) issue is ever present.
I’m assuming that the Westinghouse AP 1000 reactor is the one chosen by all these power companies. The AP 1000 has already been approved by the NRC way back in 2006. It is a standardized design, and the power plants were also modular in design, meaning some parts can be built offsite and transported to the construction site.
All this was SUPPOSED TO STREAMLINE CONSTRUCTION of the plant and compress it to less than 3 years to build. Hasn’t happened. My guess is that most of this shit is another giant clusterfuck created by too much government interference.
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11th July 2012 at 1:52 pm
Ron says:
To me the answer would be smaller reactors,just more of them.A smart feller i worked with liked the idea of pebble bed? reactors.He said one could be built for a city in a box that would be the size of a trailer you would tow behind an 18 wheeler.If i remember right one feature is the ease of shutting it down.
I also saw a video about Thorium for power.i think the link was here on TBP,it was going to be used for a lunar base.It seemed to make sense.
Here in arizona we have the Palo Verde plant with four reactors.It took many years to build.While it does provide a loy of power i think smaller plants are a better idea.
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11th July 2012 at 2:00 pm
AWD says:
Admin and minion building IKEA stores
Hot debate. What do you think?
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11th July 2012 at 2:03 pm
SSS says:
Admin
Just in case you thought you were getting away with those potshots you took at my expense, here’s an actual photo of me (I’m in disguise on the left) and a friend sending you a message.
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11th July 2012 at 2:05 pm
Administrator says:
SSS proves his utter ignorance in building a big box store on 10 acres in a city which is in a State which is in a country. My budgets included the payoffs to governments for approvals for stormwater, traffic, blah, blah, blah. Do you think we built these 300,000 square foot monstrosities in a vacuum? Geez. You really hooked that one into the woods.
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11th July 2012 at 2:37 pm
Colma Rising says:
Yeah…. you know how much bullshit and fanfare it took to open one of those things in East Palo Alto…. then the per-capita leader in murder rates?
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11th July 2012 at 2:41 pm
SSS says:
Ron
You have to ask yourself a question. If pebble bed and/or thorium reactors are practical, then why haven’t a bunch of them been built since the technology for both types have been around for over a half century? Answer: cost, complexity, safety and a host of other issues. Germany built a piss ant (15 megawatt) pebble bed reactor in the 1960s, ran it for two decades, and is still trying to clean up the radioactive crap left behind after it was shut down. The issues with pebble bed and thorium technology HAVE NOT BEEN YET SOLVED.
Adding additional third-generation-plus reactors to our current 104 nuclear power plants is the answer. Example. The triple reactor (not quadruple as you stated) Palo Verde plant in Arizona has room for two more reactors, according to the plant manager. Palo Verde’s generation capacity is an incredible 3,900 megawatts and adding two more 1,150 megawatt reactors would jack the total up to 6,200 megawatts. Mama mia, thatsa biga power plant.
More advantages to my suggestion. Land for the reactors is already there. Duh. Perimeter security is already there, only the new reactor plants themselves would need additional security. High voltage transmission lines coming from the plant site are already there. Some, if not most, of these transmission routes could also be used for the increased power coming from the plant site.
I need to be appointed Secretary of Energy. I’d straighten some shit out in a heartbeat.
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11th July 2012 at 2:47 pm
Administrator says:
Colma
The fucking East Palo Alto store almost killed me. What a fucking disaster. I told the real estate manager that the only consistency with the project was the continual fuck ups. This particular project was one of the 9, but it came in $2 million overbudget and I was yelled at by the Swedes. We built the store around some dude’s house because he refused to sell his land at a reasonable price. The corrupt politicians held us up at gun point for all kinds of FSA shit. We built playgrounds and made “donations” to all kinds of “causes”.
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11th July 2012 at 2:51 pm
SSS says:
Admin
Are you trying to pick a fight or did a powerful “Stupid Front” just pass through your brain?
Comparing building an Ikea store with building a nuclear power plant is just absurd on the face of it.
Even with a modular, standardized design, a nuclear power plant takes 3 years to build. Why? Sheer complexity. And once you add in the layers of federal and state bureaucracy, you can expect to add another 4 to 7 years to the process.
And you yourself claimed that you built 9 new Ikea stores in just 10 months. Wow, you must have damn near shit your pants in having to deal with all that frustrating local, state, and federal bureaucracy.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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11th July 2012 at 3:12 pm
Administrator says:
SSS
Face it dude. Natural gas powered plants are the way to go. Admit you are wrong.
Are you actually trying to convince critical thinking people that the ROI on a new nuclear power plant is higher than a natural gas powered plant with natural gas under $3?
Really????
Let’s see your financial analysis hotshot.
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11th July 2012 at 3:16 pm
Administrator says:
SSS trying to figure out what Admin meant by ROI
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11th July 2012 at 3:18 pm
Administrator says:
SSS’ advisor on financial matters related to nuclear energy.
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11th July 2012 at 3:21 pm
TeresaE says:
After I read about the “problem” in Japan, then found out that WE have the same problem in EVERY nuke facility in the country (above ground storage of “spent” rods), I just shake my head and wonder why the hell ANYONE wants nuclear power?
The fuckers have been shoving highly radioactive bars into water-filled buildings for decades.
They received the money to FIX it and have done NOTHING in over 25 years!
So while we regulate and engineer better “plants,” we continue to allow the real danger to sit in storage outside of metro areas from sea-to-shining-sea.
Where is the sense in this?
Once again, just like the damnable CFL bulbs, we legislate a “solution” while treating the disposal costs/realities as if they do not exist.
Short-sighted fuckers. Just once in my life I’d like to see my neighbors (literally and figuratively) wake the hell up and vote every last incumbent out of office.
Just once.
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11th July 2012 at 3:25 pm
SSS says:
Wow. Admin admits to caving in to corrupt politicians and making “donations” to all kinds of causes. Actual photo of Admin in his office at Ikea. No wonder he could get all those stores built in such a short time.
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11th July 2012 at 3:26 pm
AWD says:
Look, Billy, Admin’s building and IKEA store
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11th July 2012 at 3:29 pm
Administrator says:
SSS shortly after questioning Admin’s integrity.
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11th July 2012 at 3:32 pm
Muck About says:
There is an already proven and quite operative way of disposal of nuke waste. Cheap, fast and foolproof.
First you liquify the waste and “glassify: it. Essentially turn the stuff into solid blocks of glassy trash that takes a few thousand years to even start surface deterioration. Then bottle that in several layers of fibre-glass and concrete mix. Now we’re up to a few hundred thousand years or so before any surface deterioration occurs.
Now for the kicker.. Haul the shit out to a convenient subduction zone (like the Mariana Trench ) where the Pacific Plate is pushing itself under the Asian plate and dump the nuke trash right into the bottom of it. Within a hundred thousand years or so, the nuclear waste is plowed under and sent on its way to be recycled in the Earth’s mantle.
We won’t be around then anyhow, so who cares?
MA
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11th July 2012 at 3:47 pm
Wyoming Mike says:
Don’t forget Jim, who was the one helping you bust the real estate & construction guys balls?
SSS: We also had architecture firms robbing us, a couple clueless employees, someone impersonating one of our employees, crazy store managers, a clueless CEO & CFO, and some rather impressive employee theft, and still came in under budget.
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11th July 2012 at 3:52 pm
Administrator says:
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11th July 2012 at 3:54 pm
Administrator says:
My trusty side kick Wyoming Mike kept those real estate guys under control. We were a sarcastic ball busting tandem.
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11th July 2012 at 3:59 pm
A Real American says:
SSS likes those Latina chicks. And golf.
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11th July 2012 at 4:08 pm
Persnickety says:
Nuclear’s financial ROI sucks, while it EROEI is Ok but not great. Natural gas, AT THE MOMENT, has a great financial ROI, and an OK EROEI – AT THE MOMENT. This site has published plenty of articles on the gas bubble, fracking disaster and general flash-in-the-pan reality for natural gas right now. Anyone building a 30-50 year lifetime plant based on a resource that won’t be cheap and abundant for more than maybe 5-10 years at best is a fucking moron. At least uranium isn’t in shortage, even if it’s costly and just OK on EROEI.
For anyone mature and of a long-term mind, the only logical choices are a massive investment in research and investment for better sources of power, or planning for and acceptance of the inevitable massive contraction in energy available for use.
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11th July 2012 at 4:09 pm
A Real American says:
Admin pulled off some graft, greased a few palms, so what?
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11th July 2012 at 4:10 pm
Colma Rising says:
Administrator paid a small price to lower E.Palo Alto’s crime rate…. a correlated drop only a fool would deny.
Put the nuke plants in Tuscon, maybe the yuppies will make like trees and get outta there.
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11th July 2012 at 4:11 pm
Colma Rising says:
Muck About, your plan would surely awaken Godzilla or some other leviathan….
Knowing the reality, somebody would cut corners every step of the way to get a b.p. or two on those energy earnings….
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11th July 2012 at 4:15 pm
SSS says:
“Natural gas powered plants are the way to go.”
—-Admin
WTF? How did we get from cost overruns and delays at nuclear plants to natural gas plants? Typical Admin bait and switch.
Just a short while ago, you raised cain about fracking for natural gas, and I handed you your head on a silver platter. Did you forget to reattach it to your body?
I’m not against natural gas plants. I’m 100% FOR natural gas plants, which make a lot of sense in a market flooded with natural gas and the price so depressed. That won’t always be the case, however. Sooner or later, natural gas deposits will be depleted, finding additional deposits will become more expensive, and the cost of natural gas and operating those plants will rise. So will your electric bill.
What makes better sense is a prudent MIXTURE of baseload power plants: hydo (maxed out), coal, natural gas, and nuclear. In other words, don’t put all your eggs in one basket. One more point, Admin. There’s plenty of uranium ore available to last for hundreds of years. Just ask Canada and Australia. Or even here in the U.S. if only the Department of Interior and the Sierra Club would get the fuck out of the way.
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11th July 2012 at 4:23 pm
Colma Rising says:
After IKEA came, the new houses went up….
It was like that Swedish shit was fertilizer.
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11th July 2012 at 4:29 pm
Colma Rising says:
If somebody won’t sell their house to make way for a nuke plant in Tuscon, Administrator would simply build one around them.
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11th July 2012 at 4:31 pm
SSS says:
TeresaE makes hysterical comments about nuclear waste and gets smacked upside the head with a 2×4 by Mucky. And may I add. “Ever heard of Yucca Mountain, Teresa?”
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11th July 2012 at 4:31 pm
SSS says:
Snick weighs in and beats Admin to a quivering pulp.
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11th July 2012 at 4:33 pm
Colma Rising says:
Administrator cuts long-run costs at the EPA IKEA, all while making Mother Earth smile….
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11th July 2012 at 4:37 pm
Administrator says:
Colma
We obligated ourselves to having 50% of our employees from EPA. That required us to bailout murderers and rapists to meet our quota.
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11th July 2012 at 4:39 pm
SSS says:
A Real American
You’re right about Latinas (and golf). Here’s an actual (honest) photo of Brazilian grandmothers who are up to 55 years old. I’ve got dibs on the one on the far right. That’s me in the background with my arms raised and shouting, “Praise the Lord and pass the pretzels.”
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11th July 2012 at 4:39 pm
Colma Rising says:
Just to stir the pot.
I love it when SSS gets pissed.
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11th July 2012 at 4:43 pm
Colma Rising says:
Admin:
I remember hearing all sorts of shit on the radio about it.
The good ol’ days.
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11th July 2012 at 4:45 pm
Administrator says:
SSS confused by Admin making him think about more than one concept at a time.
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11th July 2012 at 4:57 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
“Just a short while ago, you raised cain about fracking for natural gas, and I handed you your head on a silver platter. Did you forget to reattach it to your body?” – SSS
Yeah that didn’t happen. You kinda flitted back and forth from topic to topic and then left.
For what its worth I agree with the assumption that Nuclear power is worth investing in. We need better energy technology, but in the meanwhile we can use up the last drops of oil/coal in the world and start switching to fission.
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11th July 2012 at 5:04 pm
DaveL says:
There’s a lot of federally owned open space in the western half of the country. Bury all the nuclear waste there. Subdivide into 40 acre plots plus a mule and hand it over. PROBLEMS solved.
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11th July 2012 at 5:13 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
@DaveL – Just dump it in philly imo
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11th July 2012 at 5:15 pm
Administrator says:
Bury all the nuclear waste in the country in Tucson. It’ll keep the illegals from coming across the border. Two problems solved.
Next question.
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11th July 2012 at 5:15 pm
Colma Rising says:
Now PC weighs in to fuck with SSS….
This will be a bloodbath when llpoh is finished whipping his help to curl up with his single malt…. and Administrator goess nighty night.
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11th July 2012 at 5:16 pm
SSS says:
Fuckers. I’m going to the gym to get some peace and quiet.
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11th July 2012 at 5:23 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
@Admin – At the very least they will be glowing in the dark and easier to spot.
Colma – I would never do that….
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11th July 2012 at 5:25 pm
Colma Rising says:
Is that a baptism?
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11th July 2012 at 5:26 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Shark attack
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11th July 2012 at 5:31 pm
Ron says:
Didnt we build a place in the desert to put nuke stuff?yucca mountain? I didnt relize they could build on to the palo verde plant,i think they started building that monster in the sixtys,until?
Reminds me of folks wanting new refinerys,its easier to just build onto exsisting ones.
I still think carbon based fuel are ok while something like thorium is worked out.Thorium sure sounded good in the presentation.Solar dosent work that good and of course nobody wants anything anywhere near them.Arnold found this out when they wanted a solar plant,he couldnt even get approved for the middle of the mohave desert.We have new turbines being built near me,they dont spin much or produce much,they are an eye sore and kill birds really well.Of course we got our rates raised to help pay for these pieces of crap.
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11th July 2012 at 7:16 pm
A Real American says:
SSS has good taste in women. He was ring-side at a Brazilian bikini contest? On duty no doubt.
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11th July 2012 at 7:26 pm
Administrator says:
TPC
That looks exactly like our missing cat. Sniff.
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11th July 2012 at 8:18 pm
FTL says:
Looks like your cat found a new high paying job at I Can Has Cheezburger . com and probably will not be coming home anytime soon because of the endless supply of great food and catnip they have there. Plus your friend Mitt gave me a fun ride over here on top of his brand new SUV. More photos to come.
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11th July 2012 at 8:36 pm
Colma Rising says:
The cat is a shameless slut and traitor, more likely than not…. Eating fancy moist and purring for some other family while you worry.
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11th July 2012 at 9:54 pm
printmemoney says:
@admin
how are you posting from jail?
I saw that you got arrested.
http://www.metro.us/philadelphia/local/article/1147392–police-mayfair-man-threatened-driver-with-crossbow-during-road-rage-outburst
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11th July 2012 at 10:25 pm
SSS says:
Ron
The Palo Verde nuclear power plant in Arizona should EASILY rank as one the modern Seven Wonders of the World. Easily. FYI, construction started in 1976, and the plant was fully operational in 1988. Cost: $12 billion. Outside of hydro plants, it is the most cost-effective power plant in the U.S. But let’s get to some facts that would smash arguments from the Greenies and Admin’s beloved natural gas plants, which produce “ONLY” 60% of the harmful emissions of a coal plant. Nuclear power produces ZERO harmful emissions.
According to APS (Arizona Public Service), power generation operations to date at Palo Verde have offset the emission of almost 484 million tonnes of carbon dioxide (the equivalent of taking up to 84 million cars off the road); more than 253,000 tonnes of sulphur dioxide; and 618,000 tonnes of nitrogen oxide. The company noted, “If Palo Verde were to cease operation at the end of the original licence, replacement cost of natural gas generation – the least expensive alternative – would total $36 billion over the 20-year licence renewal period.”
Nuclear power. Green. Safe. And over the period of the standard 40-year nuclear power license, cheap.
This is turning into another fucking rout by me. First, it was Muslim terrorists, followed by Southwest Airlines, and then fracking operations. I need to look over my notes carefully. I’m sure there’s more, but you can do only so much when you’re afflicted with advanced Alzheimer’s and play too much golf during the Arizona summers.
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11th July 2012 at 10:38 pm
Novista says:
TPC
Where’s Philo Farnsworth when ya need him?
And that brings to mind the high school student, William Jack, who re-visited the fusor in 2010. He’s not the only only experimenting with old technology.
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11th July 2012 at 10:39 pm
Colma Rising says:
LMAO!
SSS: Did admin write that closing statement for you?
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11th July 2012 at 11:33 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Pretty sure it was the Admin’s missing, slutty cat. It knew SSS would prove victorious in this thread, and everyone knows pussy is attracted to winning.
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11th July 2012 at 11:52 pm
SSS says:
“SSS: Did admin write that closing statement for you?”
—-Colma
No, but I already know he’s going to shit in my mess kit no matter what I say, so I just decided to beat him to the punch and shit in my own mess kit. That’s really, really weird when you do that. I propose the following motto:
“TBP. Driving People Insane One Day at a Time.”
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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11th July 2012 at 12:02 am
Colma Rising says:
Not insane, SSS….
I think you’ve long been the most named in posting titles and preambles.
A badge of honor.
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11th July 2012 at 12:13 am
Ron says:
I used to drive past that plant every day.I read where it would take 3 million wind turbines to equal one of the reactors at Palo Verde.So much for wind turbines.
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11th July 2012 at 12:14 am
SSS says:
Ron
I argued a couple of years ago that if the U.S. would have “spent” (actually, loan guarantees to be repaid to the U.S. Treasury) that foolish $840 billion dollar stimulus money on nuclear power plants instead of pissing it away on public employee unions, power generation in the U.S. would be good to go for more than half a century. And it would have resulted in a PERMANENT job creation of 240,000, not to mention the hundreds of thousands or millions of temporary (3-7 years) construction jobs.
A true investment in our children’s future. And cleaner air to boot. Now, that money is all gone, and we have nothing to show for it.
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11th July 2012 at 12:38 am
Novista says:
SSS sez ” The issues with pebble bed and thorium technology HAVE NOT BEEN YET SOLVED.”
Maybe we can thank President “I am not a crook” for that. Fired Weinberg and nobbled an alternate line of research. I find it amazing it only took six years to develop a fucking bombfrom theory to Trinity and a potential forty years would not have solved the problems.
The other thing is, putting all your eggs in a godzilla-sized reactor, and then drop the basket. Thinking EMP outcome, the field effect would be widespread but not uniform (speculation) and losing one big plant would be more adverse.
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11th July 2012 at 12:39 am
Llpoh says:
SSS wins. His best point is when he defends infrastructure expenditure. Build roads, electric plants,bridges, railways, etc and it pays dividends forever. Piss money against the wall on snap cards just leaves you with a wet, stinking wall.
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11th July 2012 at 1:00 am
Administrator says:
printmemoney
The pussy didn’t even fire the crossbow. Mine is loaded and ready.
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11th July 2012 at 7:50 am
Administrator says:
SSS and his ZERO harmful emmissions. His trust in mega-corporations and governmental agencies is touching.
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11th July 2012 at 7:52 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
The number of damaging fission reactor accidents can be counted upon one hand. Not only that, but they have been spread out over a generous amount of time diluting the effect of the leaked radiation.
Fukashima Daiichi is a result of hubris, not faulty engineering. The amount of tectonic activity that goes on under Japan is insane. For them to try and build some of the world’s most advanced skyscrapers and fission reactors in such a location is courting death.
That little island is going to be the next Atlantis. Oh, I don’t think it will completely sink into the ocean, but there is no way in hell they can continue to import damn near everything they need and still say a global economic power.
As for natural gas prices, c’mon admin you JUST posted an article about peak oil/gas. Citing its price today as proof that we should be building more gas powered plants is about as short sighted as it can get. At least the solar and wind nuts have the advantage of knowing the sun and wind will both be here 50 years from now.
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11th July 2012 at 11:34 am
TeresaE says:
Sure have SSS, also heard that it isn’t being utilized and that there are many, many, many, places in the states that are NOT doing ANYTHING with their waste other than the exact same thing that is threatening the world at Fukishima. Exactly the same.
I’m not going to spend all afternoon re-researching the information, but I’ve been aware (but had forgotten until I read http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-14-07/largest-short-term-threat-humanity-fuel-pools-fukushima) of the lack of disposal of highly radioactive waste products. Same fucking short-sighted thinking as the mercury disposal in light bulbs. Believe it or not but there is NO safe amount of mercury or man-made radiation. No matter what the government/scientists tell us.
First I found this article from ZeroHedge uber interesting (and scary, read it, it is fucking eye-opening) http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-14-07/largest-short-term-threat-humanity-fuel-pools-fukushima
Which led me to: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/03/nuclear-plant-operator-water-in-pool-storing-spent-nuclear-fuel-rods-may-be-boiling-an-ominous-sign-for-release-of-radioactivity.html
From the article/blog: “The plants of that design also store highly radioactive spent fuel in pools outside the protective containment structure that surrounds the reactor itself.
Opponents of nuclear power have warned for years that if these pools drain, either by accident or terrorist attack, it could lead to a fire and a catastrophic release of radiation.” which was quoted from ProPublica
Sorry SSS. Our government has proven, time and time and time, again, that they are incapable of running anything without graft, corruption,fraud and “unintended” consequences that always seem to “accidently” harm the middle class. You would prefer we turn to these same short-sighted, corrupted, bureaucrats, and trust the very survival of all the living things in this country and world to them.
Not me. The potential costs of nuclear accidents are way too high. I’m looking at my daughter sleeping right now, they are way too fucking high. And in the REAL world, there is NO fucking way to let the government do this without screwing something up with catastrophic results. Just a matter of time and ever “constrained” budgets.
Since my government has proven that they are completely incapable of doing anything without the “unintended” consequences crushing this country, I 100% don’t trust ‘em to not fry us all.
But, that’s just ole’ pessimistic, realistic, me.
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11th July 2012 at 4:29 pm
SSS says:
Admin posts a picture of the abnormal world of nuclear power (Fukushima burning), and his legions of lemmings burst to their feet in a standing O. Try this friggin picture of the abnormal, lemmings. 11 people died. Cause: a natural gas explosion!!!!
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11th July 2012 at 6:21 pm
SSS says:
Natural gas is 80% methane, which was the cause of the Deepwater Horizon explosion I pictured above. Check this out.
“The world’s 1.5 billion cows and billions of other grazing animals emit dozens of polluting gases, including lots of methane. Cows emit a massive amount of methane through belching, with a lesser amount through flatulence.”
Conclusion: Admin supports cow farts.
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11th July 2012 at 6:38 pm
SSS says:
TeresaE
Here’s a pic of the Palo Verde plant in Arizona. It’s the ONLY nuclear facility not near a natural body of water on the entire planet. See all that water? Of course you do. It’s an 80 acre lake that was designed to provide enough water to cool the reactors AND supply water to the spent fuel rods in the pools on site FOR ONE YEAR in the event of a major catastrophe. You can rule out earthquakes and tsunamis here in Arizona. And fires. The plant is in the middle of some really ugly, barren desert.
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11th July 2012 at 6:57 pm
TeresaE says:
SSS, beautiful pic of ONE plant. Just one.
For cripe’s sake, Fukishima is sitting next to the fucking Pacific Ocean and that isn’t solving problems.
In Michigan nearly all our plants are sitting on Great Lakes’ shorelines.
So, in the event of an unplanned for disaster, whatcha’ think is going to happen to our largest bodies of fresh water.
Right now we are up in arms about energy, it won’t be too many decades and we will be dying from lack of fresh water.
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11th July 2012 at 8:14 pm
TeresaE says:
11 people SSS? Wow, better ban it.
After all we ban Zicam when a dozen people allege loss of smell.
Yet the potential to kill millions and poison the very earth, that is acceptable risk?
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11th July 2012 at 8:16 pm
Administrator says:
SSS again makes an ignorant comment for the ages.
The explosion was caused by a mega-corporation that cut corners, ignored standard safety procedures, ignored warnings from experienced personnel, and covered up their guilt in order to maximize their short-term profits. They follow the standard operating procedure of most mega-corporations like the ones fracking in the Marcellus Shale and the mega-corporations that are building nuclear power plants. BP killed 11 people immediately, millions of wildlife and an undetermined number of Americans who believe the Gulf is no longer contaminated. How many will die from Fukushima? We won’t know because big government and big business will cover it up.
SSS has soft spot in his heart for mega-utilities and their dedication to safety and procedures.
How touching. It brings a tear to my eye.
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11th July 2012 at 8:37 pm
SSS says:
“It won’t be too many decades, and we will be dying from lack of fresh water.”
—-Terrified TessieE
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11th July 2012 at 1:53 am
SSS says:
TeresaE gets ready for the Big Day.
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11th July 2012 at 2:01 am
SSS says:
Recent photo, sent to me by Admin, of TeresaE thinking about nuclear waste and fresh water.
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11th July 2012 at 2:14 am
Administrator says:
Interesting that SSS did not respond to my insult regarding the Deepwater Horizon explosion.
Why don’t you refute my statement about the cause?
Sound of CIA crickets.
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11th July 2012 at 7:35 am
TeresaE says:
SSS, you crack me up.
Wasn’t too long back the Great Lakes were dying. Erie was declared a dead lake.
The desert southwest has been conniving with Washington for decades to siphon off the lakes and use it up in the desert.
In Michigan, that is an issue that rears its head time and time and time again. Thus far the “pact” amongst the Great Lakes States have been able to stop it. With increased central planning from DC, my doubts are it will last.
And mock my trepidation if you want SSS. I’ve lived my life believing it is better to at least LOOK and CONSIDER the “worst case” scenario in your planning.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
Cause if you don’t, the worst is usually so much more so than you could have ever believed.
Which, funnily enough, is probably the same reason you buy home insurance.
Or, cause it hasn’t happened yet (and if it has, I’m sorry, losing your home to fire can be one of life’s most devastating events), you let the policy go.
After all, you’ve been smarter than fire thus far. I’m sure the NRC will be smarter too.
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11th July 2012 at 12:04 pm
Administrator says:
TheresaE
SSS’ motto at the CIA was: “Just do it and fuck the consequences. Let some other fucker worry about those.” (Iran coup, Guatamalan coup, providing arms to Hussein against Iran, providing arms to bin Laden against Russia) The list goes on.
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11th July 2012 at 12:30 pm
SSS says:
“SSS, you crack me up.”
—-TeresaE
True. You gotta admit that my creative analysis above which linked Admin to cow farts was pretty funny. I should have been a stand-up comedian. “I could have been a contender.”
Admin
The only sound of crickets on this site comes from you after I intelligently respond to your weak allegations, and you immediately change the subject. Yes, there was a human factor in the Deep Water Horizon fiasco, same with many other disasters such as Fukushima and Chernobyl and the Space Shuttle explosions. Whenever you undertake complex, advanced technology endeavors, Murphy’s Law awaits. Nothing is risk free. Just ask the families of the thousands of coal miners who have been killed plying their trade in life, even with the many advancements in making it safer. Miners know it is still risky, and they do it anyway.
Nice try, though. Thanks for playing.
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11th July 2012 at 12:48 pm
SSS says:
Admin continues to change the subject from cost overruns at nuclear plants to natural gas to coup plots. The list goes on.
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11th July 2012 at 12:53 pm
Administrator says:
Pretty lame. Sliced it into the pond. “human factor” is such a nice term. You should be in the PR business for mega-corps.
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11th July 2012 at 12:53 pm
SSS says:
Admin
Why don’t you step aside for awhile and catch a deep breath? You’ve run out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time.
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11th July 2012 at 12:59 pm
Administrator says:
Am I overtaxing your brain by making you keep more than one concept in there at a time?
I attribute it to a human factor.
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11th July 2012 at 1:02 pm
SSS says:
Admin
You’re in a burning aircraft that’s about to crash. Time to eject. The instructions are simple. “Raise handle. Squeeze trigger.” Even you should be able to understand that.
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11th July 2012 at 1:17 pm
Administrator says:
SSS comes to a knife fight with an umbrella and dumb expression on his face.
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11th July 2012 at 1:24 pm
SSS says:
Admin
I admit that I’ve learned a lot of my debating style from you, but you’ve got a big problem. The student has become the master. Time to pack it in, tough guy. You’re down for the count.
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11th July 2012 at 1:38 pm
Colma Rising says:
Time to step in and stir the pot….
Administrator’s “harmless” natural gas:
SSS: Tell us how you feel about pressure testing lines? I suppose the energy companies will “self-regulate”?
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11th July 2012 at 1:46 pm
SSS says:
WTF? How did I get roped into commenting about pressure testing (presumably natural gas) lines? I don’t know a fucking thing about the subject, Colma, so why don’t you impart YOUR wisdom instead.
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11th July 2012 at 1:53 pm
Administrator says:
SSS
I’ve forgotten more than you know about debating on TBP. You had the right fighter but wrong picture.
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11th July 2012 at 2:12 pm
SSS says:
Admin
I am not only the greatest debater of all time, I’m also pretty. You, on the other hand………..
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11th July 2012 at 6:08 pm
SSS says:
Pic of Admin above is after plastic surgery. And before………
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11th July 2012 at 6:15 pm
SSS says:
SSS wins the debate, and the battle for best insults, best comebacks, best funny pics, and best of damn near everything else. Admin wins for best case of heartburn. Our TBP doctors, Axel, Hope, and AWD will provide FREE advice for that heartburn, Admin. Congratulations.
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11th July 2012 at 6:23 pm