It seems that the bullshit agendas are accelerating lately. First, we have Gov. Jerry Brown of my home state of California VETO-ing a bill that would have forced law enforcement agencies into getting court warrants before searching a suspects mobile phone. If you remember, this whole mess arose after the BART-Station shootings of an unnarmed, proned, defenseless man and the subsequent protests. I was under no disillusionment when this bill went to his desk to be signed. I figured there would be no way in hell that Brown would permit the people to have any privacy considering what the Federal Govt. has been doing. I’m sure the FEDs share information with California so California feels it necessary to oblige them on certain issues.
But if this weren’t enough, I woke up this morning to learn that a new bill is making its way through our state legislature that I believe will eventually affect the entire country! What bill you ask?!! AB2109….
This bill will, in essence, forces anyone who can’t afford to send their children to private schools and, therefore, must resort to public schools, to vaccinate their children regardless of their religious or personal beliefs in order for theri children to be permitted entrance into the public school system. Right now, here in California we have a Personal Beliefs Exemption to opt out of any vaccinations for our kids. After this bill has been put into effect along with the implementation of ObamaCare putting the responsibility of owning medical coverage on the individual, you might say the entire public school population will be forcibily medicated; either that, or a bunch of kids will be homeschooled. Is this view too extreme? I don’t believe so. Read the bill for yourself. But what bothers me is that the parent must find a doctor who will sign a government form that will permit the child to not be vaccinated. My question is, where are you going to find a doctor like that? Do you think you will find one at Kaiser? or a provider that only accepts Medi-Cal??? PLEASE!!! I thought we lived in a country where we had a choice? Freedom of choice?! Some might argue that we still have a choice…it’s just that the Cocksucking elite are eliminating any good choices that may have been left and leaving us with a choice between POO or SHIT! Almost like the election I suppose! If anyone ever needed to be impeached in California it should be BROWN!!!! FUCK Governor Moonbeam!
and Fuck the system!
The links to the stories are below:
CALIFORNIA BILL AB2109
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_2101-2150/ab_2109_bill_20120223_introduced.html
Dr. Bob Sears take on it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-bob-sears/california-vaccination-bill_b_1355370.html
Davel says:
This bill is not so bad. It provides an easy way to implant the microchip.
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30th September 2012 at 3:39 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
True Dave, but if you think that you are a conspiracy nutjob right?!
BTW, did anyone see that fucking coffee maker that has wifi, a camera and scanner on it?!! I guess the CIA Director Betrayus was right, reminds me of that disney movie G Force with the hamsters…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 3:47 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
The G Force Coffee Maker that tried to take over the world!
NASA'S $11,111 coffee maker with built in Wi Fi, scanner and camera...WTF does my coffee maker need to have wi fi accessibility?
Look similar or am I just trippin?
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30th September 2012 at 3:51 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
I do not think people should be as terrified of vaccines as they are. I believe that compromising herd immunity based on the “facts” laid out in a redacted and derided POS scientific paper is irresponsible.*
I also believe that its the responsibility of the family/individual to determine what they put in their body, NOT the government. If this was a private school I’d say “thats their right,” but since its a public school its fucking illegal.
*Please note, I am referring to the “tried and true” vaccines, and not shit like that fucking gardasil thing they are pushing these days.
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30th September 2012 at 4:53 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
Damn the other pic didn’t post…this should fix it!
G Force cartoon coffee maker that almost conquered the world.
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30th September 2012 at 4:59 pm
harry p. says:
More evidence america is dead, long live the ussa.
How do they plan on enforcing this? Probably another agency of “heroes” forcibly funded by us subjects.
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30th September 2012 at 5:11 pm
Llpoh says:
I am pro- vaccine,for sure. I will get smeared by many, but I have no problem with requiring kids that go to school be vaccinated. None whatsoever. It is one of those for the public good things.
Sorry Plato.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 5:33 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
I’m sure you are all for vaccines…Your generation was duped into believing in their efficacy so I don’t expect an old dog to change his thinking about it.
What I do have a problem with is when the government tells me I have to do inject a substance into my child’s body otherwise he can’t attend public schoools….(NOT LIKE I WANT HIM AT PUBLIC SCHOOLS ANYWAYS SINCE I WORK THERE AND SEE WHAT KIND OF EDUCATION OUR TAX DOLLARS PAY FOR!)
For those of you that have young ones I ask a simple question…knowing what you have learned from sites like this about the corruption and revolving doors between D.C. and Big Business how can you trust the government policies that were more than likely influenced or written by Big Pharma??
I suppose one might have to open up a private school where non-vaccine parents can send their kids to eh?? Knowing history and how powerful the MSM is, I might conclude that if a school like that were opened, it would soon be labeled a “commune” or “cult” and the ATF would kick in the door with the barrel of a tank and kill us all?!
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30th September 2012 at 5:51 pm
napari says:
PlatoPlubius You dont want to send your kids to public school and they are giving you an excuse to get out! whats the problem?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 6:27 pm
llpoh says:
There have long been laws re communicable disease. This is just another one. Plato thinks that vaccination is not a public good. So he rails on about the lack of freedom when people decide that they do not want to take the risk of communicable disease spreading through the community. He, like so many others, wants the protection from disease for his children to be a result of other people getting THEIR kids vaccinated. So long as everyoe else gets their kids vaccinated, his will be safe, and he doesn’t have to subject his kids to the miniscule risk involved with the vaccination. Anti-vaccination folks are in the minority, and definitely are in opposition to the mainstream medical profession.
Schooling/education is NOT a Constitutional right. It is a priviledge. As such, those partaking of the priviledge can be required to meet certain criteria, and meet certain conditions. No rights have been violated. If you do not like the conditions, you can home school, send to private school, etc.
Again, I repeat, education is not a right.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 7:01 pm
llpoh says:
TPC – it is not illegal. Please, do not make statements you cannot support in any way. The Constitution does not support youe claim, nor have courts conferred a right to be educated, as no such right exists. States are occassionally held to account for failure to adhere to laws they pass re education, and if they pass this legislation, it will be a law that the courts will enforce.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 7:05 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
@ IIPOH
When did I say this????
“He, like so many others, wants the protection from disease for his children to be a result of other people getting THEIR kids vaccinated. So long as everyoe else gets their kids vaccinated, his will be safe..”
Nice straw man argument. I have always wondered about a great many of your posts.. How much do you get paid to visit this site daily and spew your antithesis to common sense?
IIPOH THINKS LIKE AN ELITIST ALREADY WHEN HE SAYS SHIT LIKE THIS “If you do not like the conditions, you can home school, send to private school, etc.” This will affect most of the country’s poor and ignorant….Somebody pretty famous or infamous depending on who you talk to said something like “MY people die for lack of knowledge”…. Sounds like classware to me…If I could AFFORD to send my KID TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL DON’T YOU THINK I WOULD HAVE ALREADY?!
I also never said that “education is a right” given under the constitution…although I would argue that what humane person wouldn’t want to teach others what they know…OH wait, I know what type of person would do that…a businessman! Can’t teach anyone else your tricks, this avoids future competition! Ah, if the true meaning of existence was to be the best, most-successful businessman ever then this mentality would be desirable; alas, the world has much more to offer than just being a cut throat, selfish individual with an idea!
no I don’t think mass inoculations are a good thing…I think this is already evident with the ever mutating staff infections and “new” diseases that pop up…yet vaccinating entire populations is a good thing.
BTW I have homeschooled my children in the past, but working full time and going to school full time puts a bit of a strain on the home life for the wifey so we reluctantly put them into a Charter school for technology and arts. Trust me if I could afford it, I would teach them myself! I guess I’m not working hard enough IIPOH! Just look at what you have accomplished right?! Douche
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30th September 2012 at 7:19 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
oops….typo class warfare not classfare for those reading impaired.
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30th September 2012 at 7:23 pm
Novista says:
TPC
” … “tried and true” vaccines” — like cholera vaccine cultured in horse serum, c. 1959? That was my first experience of anaphylactic shock and I did not know the cause until a decade later. Since I had to get the yellow booklet set for my trip to Saudi Arabia, my family doctor knew better than the army did back in ’59, take two things and come back tomorrow.
And the next day, one touch and I was out like a light. Again. Now we knew the culprit.
A year later, a booster was required. I went to an Egyptian doctor in Riyadh, told him my misgivings. He agreed, had the same problem. Just did not take it because — it does not provide 100% immunity. And he’d been in Africa the year before helping with a cholera epidemic.
Even penicillin can kill some people. Et bloody cetera. If the needs of the many outweigh the one, and that one happens to be me, I say Fuck The Public Good. Property rights mean the first thing you own is yourself. Statists disagree.
Btw, maybe you could weigh in some time on the subject of ‘peer review’ …
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30th September 2012 at 7:39 pm
llpoh says:
Plato – you moron. Seriously. I simply define what are rights and what are not. You OBVIOUSLY want education treated as a right, otherwise you wouldn’t make the ridiculous argument that you posted. It is not a right. It is a priviledge. You can avail yourself of it, under the conditions specified, or not. Your choice. You want to send your uninoculated kids to school with mine? No thanks. Keep them at home, please. Want to avail yourself of the priviledge of education, then adhere to the conditions.
The education is there for one and all. But conditions attach, as they should. Behave well. Pay attention. And for me, inoculate against communicable disease, so as not to expose my kids to disease. Gee, now there is a concept – responsibility toward other people.
Don’t like it? Don’t go. You have freedom of choice – but you want to send your uninoculated kids into a school and risk the spread of disease.
By the way, too bad you are not capable of earning enough to take care of your family better, and resent those that can. I suppose working in a school is the best you can get. When I read your stuff it simply highlights the well known fact that teachers are morons, with IQs below average, and falling.
You want your “rights”, whether or not you call them that, but could give a fuck about any one else’s rights. You want to be able to send your uninoculated kids into the midst of a whole bunch of other kids, at whatever risk that entails, and damn to hell anyone who says you cannot. Now there is a surprise. But I suppose you are far too stupid to see just how immoral that is.
BTW – I freely give of my time and knowledge to anyone who wants it. It is a priviledge to do what I can to help aspiring businessmen and women.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 7:49 pm
llpoh says:
Novista – I have no problem with you, or anyone, who decides not to get inocculated. I do not want them around my family, however. Anyone making that decision, who then spreads a dangerous communicable disease, should be eradicated, in my humble opinion, as I believe it is tantamount to murder. Your rights do not trump my rights. Once you know you have a life-threatening reaction, as you did, then exceptions of course need to be made.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 7:56 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
IIPOH said, “inoculate against communicable disease, so as not to expose my kids to disease.”
Wow! Give my kids a disease to save my kids from a disease? and I’m a moron.
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30th September 2012 at 7:57 pm
Stucky says:
There is MASSIVE info on the fact that vaccines have very dangerous side effects. Just google “vaccines are dangerous”. Not that it will change the minds of vaccine-believers.
The ONLY question is; do the benefits outweigh the risks? The State has no right to make that determination. Parents do.
People like llpoh hate the government when it costs them money …. e.g., “leave MY business alone!!!” …….. not so much when they intrude in other areas.
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30th September 2012 at 7:58 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Oooohhh attacked by both sides.
Fun stuff.
@llpoh – The Constitution doesn’t support a lot of the shit I have to put up with on a daily basis. This is just one more method of control from TPTB.
@Novista – A certain percent of the population will have an allergic reaction(as you mention), this is why I said people SHOULD, but that we shouldn’t force them. Ultimately its THEIR life on the line when they opt to have that injected in their arm.
Here’s my idea on the subject of “peer review”….
though its not perfect, Its certainly more reliable than random internet anecdotal evidence.
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30th September 2012 at 7:58 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
I know IIPOH, maybe we should have all those who aren’t innoculated or whose vaccines aren’t up to record wear some sort of identifying attire for you! That way you will know to steer clear of us right?! Get the Fuck Out of Here! You’re tired rhetoric is dying just like this country!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:03 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – Seriously? Wow, that is some shallow thinking. You are capable of much more. The state is not enforcing vaccine. It is requiring that kids be vaccinated to partake of the school system. Big difference. They are requirig it as mainstream medicine supports vaccination. How many people would die if vaccinations stopped being administered? Millions?
And by the way, I suspect that a good argument centered around “and provide for the general welfare” clause could be made giving the government the right to enforce vaccination if the person wants tolive in the country. For the “general welfare”, you knwo, so as to eliminate or minimize deadly disease. Courts have in fact long upheld communicable disease laws.
Please, you really do know better than that last comment.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:05 pm
Stucky says:
“Anyone making that decision, ….. should be eradicated, ….. Your rights do not trump my rights.” —-llpoh
Soooooo …. your RIGHTS include ……… killing others?
What the fuck is wrong with you? Crazy bastard.
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30th September 2012 at 8:07 pm
Stucky says:
“The state is not enforcing vaccine. It is requiring that kids be vaccinated to partake of the school system. Big difference.” — llpoh
Bull fucking shit. Most people don’t have a choice in sending their kids to public schools. When a parent does not have a choice, then they are being forced. Try to use your brain this evening.
And don’t give me that “general welfare” horse crap either!
The TSA is for the general welfare. Taxes are for the general welfare. SNAP cards are for the general welfare. Every motherfucking law and government agency is there for the general welfare. I don’t need some fuckng goons telling me what poisons to inject in my body … for the general welfare.
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30th September 2012 at 8:16 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – people have to be responsible for their actions and decisions. If someone decides to avoid a vaccination, for whatever reason, then contracts a communicable disease and spreads it, resulting in deaths, I have no problem whatsoever finding them guilty of murder. They made a conscious decision to take the risk, and the result of their decision was the death of innocent persons. To me, that is murder. Pure and simple.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:16 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
@ DUMBOH
you said, “And by the way, I suspect that a good argument centered around “and provide for the general welfare” clause could be made giving the government the right to enforce vaccination if the person wants tolive in the country.”
I think it’s past your bed time…better take some chamomile and take out your false teeth and go to bed ol’ man, cuz now your arguments are getting weaker.
Based off of your logic above, “education” might be considered “providing for the general welfare” of its citizens as well!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:17 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
GO SPEW YOUR STATIST ELIST anti human propaganda somewhere else DOUCHEBAG!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:19 pm
llpoh says:
Stuck – you are incapable of advanced thought, it appears. You do not like the terms of the Constitution? Really? Or only when it suits you? There is no Constitutional guarantee re right to fly. I disagree with the law on that, but I do not argue with the right to have such a law. I believe the right exists, but it is a fucked up law.
Don’t want vaccines? Don’t have them. But if all of society followed that lead, there would be vast illness and death. And if it were me, I would make the spread of communicable disease as a result of non-vaccination a crime.
Certain laws are horseshit, but quite often there exists the Constitutional right for such laws to be made. If the right exists then it becomes a question of whether the laws are proper in and of themselves. The TSA is one where it is not proper. I am on the side of vaccinations, however.
Parents have choices – maybe they are not good choices, but they are choices nonetheless. What about all of the parents that feel their kids are being subjected to potentially deadly disese from being exposed to unvaccinated children? What about their choices? You prefer to force them to accept that situaton, so as to spare the minority who choose to send their kids to school unvaccinated? To impose on their children the risk of death by disease? Please. Buy a clue on this.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:26 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
Here is just some of the research that I have found on an issue I think plays a huge role in all of this fucked up shit! Adjuvants like thimerosal according to the CDC’s own paper in 2003 suggested future studies on the relationship between thimerosal and neurological disorders like tics.
Maybe the mercury from all those injections over your life time is clouding your mental processes or something….
BTW
Don’t forget to get your Flu Shot! I hear Raley’s/ Bel Air/Nob Hill will give you $5 bucks in store credit if you get it there instead of Wal-Mart, Wal-Greens, CVS, Rite Aid….fill in the blank! Are you kidding me!!!??? When did this become the norm?!! I guess when billionaire “philanthropists” like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet throw some money behind it eh?!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:31 pm
llpoh says:
Education is “general welfare”. And is provided at law – but not by right. And its provision is governed and controlled.
I will spew where I please until the Admin says otherwise. You post some controversial shit, then expect only those that support your position will post, slapping you on the back and singing your praises? Good luck with that.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:32 pm
llpoh says:
You should be thanking me – you are up to 30 comments already. This thread could have legs, so long as the vitriol continues.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:40 pm
A Real American says:
Everyone in California is fucked in the head. You voted in this dipshit? Dumb fucking democratic state filled with dumb fucking democratic stooges. You’ll get what you deserve, a good ass fucking. You got any vaccines for that jackass?
“I come to you with a sad heart. The Governor of California, the venerable Jerry Brown, has vetoed a bill that would have allowed for a child to have three legal parents. You can read his statement here:
This will was poised to help us crack open the family structure in ways we have yet been unable to do. I am so disappointed in Gov. Brown! I was sure he was strong member of the Party but now I have my doubts about him. He cites “unintended consequences” as his reasons…. well duh! Of course there would be consequences! In our favor! *facepalm* Some Rethuglikkkan must have gotten to him.Just imagine: this bill was set to allow judges wide latitude to assign legal parenthood. Legal parenthood is our dream, for ALL parents. With legal parenthood, we own the children – the children are granted to their parents by us, not by nature (or the archaic “God” that some backward people still believe in).As disappointing as this was, I am sure we will win the day with “legal parenthood.” This is because “gay marriage” (which really means genderless marriage) will necessitate it for everybody, not just gay couples. Genderless marriage and legal parenthood are what France is embracing, right now, as we speak.
No more of the “laws of nature and nature’s God”! All rights and duties flow from the Party, including those of parents to their children. It’s like a coin: genderless marriage is heads, legal parenthood is tails. You can’t have one without the other.Until next time”
“California governor signs bill giving juvenile prisoners sentenced to life for murder, a chance at parole, so they can murder again:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/30/california-governor-signs-bill-giving-juvenile-prisoners-second-chance/?test=latestnews
This clearly must be a part of Obamacare, where the population must be thinned (murder usually works) to allocate the scarce health care resources Obamacare will cause.”
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30th September 2012 at 8:54 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
@ IIPOH
Again, unfounded and untrue, there are others who have disagreed, but none who have said the bat shit crazy stuff you have said! Not to mention, you think your an internet bad ass but your not.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 8:59 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
Nicely said Real American! Great points and I don’t think they are too off from happening…I know people have joked in the past about getting a license to have a baby; but with what you refer to it sounds like more and more a possible near future reality. We can see how well central planning works with the infanticide that goes on China; WE ARE ALL DOOMED unless the status quo changes or is removed.
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30th September 2012 at 9:03 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
@IIPOH
30 comments for a Sunday isn’t too bad, SPEW ON! After all you are making me look good.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 9:04 pm
A Real American says:
One the worst, biggest spending democrats in the history of the world is from California. Her sidekick, Harry Reid, is from Neveda. These two fucking idiots are the spending behind Obama. Piece of shit Pelosi “we had to pass Obamacare to find what was in it”. She’ll be the first woman politician hung from a light post.
1. Nancy Pelosi
An irrational, bug-eyed liberal congresswoman whose IQ rivals that of the mildly retarded. Pelosi is frequently seen on TV jabbering non-sensically with a dazed expression on her face.
Nancy Pelosi has the intellectual capacity of a potted plant.
retarded democrat liberal moonbat mushwimp. democrap
2. nancy pelosi
The first woman speaker of the house – this is unfortunate for women everywhere as she is a Baltimore mafia-princess turned poser-socialist whose ‘historic congress’ has an 11% approval rating. nancy is a puppet of george soros funded groups such as moonbat.org as well as a political whore for the islamo-nazis.
nancy pelosi is the definition of a useful idiot; she has had so many face-lifts you could bounce a quarter off her cheeks
Nancy Pelosi, California must be proud.
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30th September 2012 at 9:20 pm
llpoh says:
Plato – see, vitriol sells!
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30th September 2012 at 9:22 pm
llpoh says:
A bit of background re imminuzation laws. The proposed law Plato is writing about is nothing new.
“Immunization Requirements for School Entry:
State laws requiring immunization date from the early 1800s, when Massachusetts enacted a smallpox vaccination requirement for its residents. The modern era for school and licensed day care immunization laws began with efforts to eliminate measles in the U.S. in the 1960′s and 1970′s.
All school and licensed day care immunization laws are State-based. There are no Federal laws mandating immunizations for school entry and day care attendance in this country. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, has affirmed the right of States to pass and enforce compulsory immunization statutes, and has upheld the constitutionality of State vaccination laws. Currently all 50 States have school immunization laws in effect although the specific vaccines, number of doses, and vaccine schedules vary by State. All States allow exemptions to immunization for medical reasons. In addition, 48 States allow religious exemptions and 15 States allow philosophical exemptions.
State-based, school-entry immunization laws establish a safety net to ensure a high level of protection from deadly diseases. Implementation and enforcement of school immunization laws have played a key role in reducing vaccine-preventable diseases in the U.S. For example, during the first 31 weeks of 1978, six States that enforced school laws reduced measles incidence by more than 90%, compared to the rest of the country.”
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 9:29 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
Now, if AWD is lurking he should post “The Liberal Brain” picture…..Wait for it….Wait for it!!!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 9:29 pm
llpoh says:
” All 50 states require vaccinations for children entering public schools even though no mandatory federal vaccination laws exist. All 50 states issue medical exemptions, 48 states (excluding Mississippi and West Virginia) permit religious exemptions [1], and 20 states allow an exemption (71 KB) [32] for philosophical reasons.
Over 5,500 cases alleging a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism have been filed under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in the US Court of Federal Claims between 2001 and 2009. [21]
The US Court of Federal Claims Office of Special Masters, between 1988 and 2009, has awarded compensation to 1,322 families whose children suffered brain damage from vaccines. [22]
About 30,000 cases of adverse reactions to vaccines have been reported annually to the federal government since 1990, with 13% classified as serious, meaning associated with permanent disability, hospitalization, life-threatening illness, or death. [23]
According to a 2003 report by researchers at the Pediatric Academic Society, childhood vaccinations in the US prevent about 10.5 million cases of infectious illness and 33,000 deaths per year. [2]“
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30th September 2012 at 9:37 pm
llpoh says:
“PRO Vaccines
Vaccination should be required for children. No individual should have the right to risk the health of the public solely for the purpose of satisfying their personal moral, philosophical, or religious views.
Vaccines can eradicate disease and prevent serious illness and death. Mandatory vaccination has eradicated diseases that once killed thousands of children, such as polio and smallpox. According to researchers at the Pediatric Academic Society, childhood vaccinations in the US prevent about 10.5 million cases of infectious illness and 33,000 deaths per year. [2]
According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, most childhood vaccines are 90-99% effective in preventing disease. When children who have been vaccinated do contract a disease, despite being vaccinated against it, they usually have milder symptoms with less serious complications than an un-vaccinated child that gets the same disease. [3]
Since some individuals that have been vaccinated may still get sick when exposed to infected individuals, 75% – 94% (639 KB) [33] of the population (depending on the disease) must be vaccinated to acheive “herd immunity.” When herd immunity is achieved the number of immunized individuals is high enough to prevent the spread of disease through the population. [4]
The risks of not being vaccinated far outweigh the small risks associated with vaccination. Preventable diseases like measles and mumps can cause permanent disability and death. In 1991 an outbreak of measles in an unvaccinated group of children in Philadelphia caused seven deaths. Children infected with the mumps can become permanently deaf. [5] Although a very small number of deaths from the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine have been reported (39 KB) , [34] the most common adverse reactions are minor soreness and or fever.
Even when diseases seem to no longer exist, outbreaks can still occur if children are not vaccinated. In Boulder, CO, fear over possible side effects of the whooping cough (pertussis) vaccine [6] led many parents to refuse vaccination for their children causing Boulder to have the lowest school-wide vaccination rate in Colorado for whooping cough and one of the highest rates of whooping cough in the US as of 2002. [7]
Because children and infants are more vulnerable to the swine flu (H1N1 virus) they should be required to take the FDA-approved vaccine to prevent illness and possible death. [8]
The claim that vaccines cause autism is false. Many studies, including one by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, reject the hypothesis that thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative in vaccines, causes autism [9]. On Mar. 12, 2010, in the case of Mead v. Secretary of Health and Human Services (500 KB) , [35] the US Court of Federal Claims ruled that the “theory of vaccine-related causation [of autism] is scientifically unsupportable.”
Children should be required to receive vaccination against hepatitis B. The disease can cause inflammation of the liver leading to cirrhosis (scarring) of the liver or cancer. The World Health Organization recommends that hepatitis B vaccination be a part of universal childhood vaccination programs. Reports that the hepatitis B vaccine may cause multiple sclerosis have been refuted by many published studies. [10]
Girls between the ages of 11 and 12 should be required to get the HPV (human papilloma virus) vaccine because it protects against four strains of HPV – two of which cause cervical cancer. In the US, cervical cancer is the second leading cancer killer of women, with 10,000 women diagnosed each year, and 3,700 dying from the disease (as of 2009). The HPV vaccine can stop these deaths and should be given to all girls before they become sexually active and have the potential to contract HPV. [11]
Vaccines should be required because they produce significant economic benefits for society. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, every $1 spent on vaccination saves the public $6.30 in medical costs (123 KB) [36] that would result from having to treat unvaccinated diseased individuals.”
“CON Vaccines
Governments should not have the right to intervene in the health decisions parents make for their children. 31% of parents (639 KB) [37] believe they should have the right to refuse mandated school entry vaccinations for their children, according to a 2010 survey by the University of Michigan.
Many parents hold religious beliefs against vaccination. Forcing such parents to vaccinate their children would violate the 1st Amendment which guarantees citizens the right to the free exercise of their religion.
Vaccines are often unnecessary in many cases where the threat of death from disease is small. During the early nineteenth century, mortality for the childhood diseases whooping cough, measles, and scarlet fever fell drastically before immunization became available. This decreased mortality has been attributed to improved personal hygiene, water purification, effective sewage disposal, and better food hygiene and nutrition. [12]
Vaccines interfere with natural law and God’s plan for humanity. Disease is a natural occurrence, and humans should not interfere with its trajectory.
Common childhood vaccinations may cause rare yet serious reactions (139KB) [38] including anaphylactic shock, paralysis, and sudden death. This risk is not worth taking, especially considering most diseases vaccinated against are not necessarily life threatening.
Vaccines can trigger auto-immune disorders such as arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), and other disorders. [13]
Vaccines can cause brain inflammation (encephalopathy) which can lead to death or permanent brain damage and disorders such as autism, ADD/ADHD, and other developmental problems. [14] In addition, the vaccine additive thimerosal (found in most pre-1999 vaccines) has been associated specifically with the development of autism and is still found in certain meningococcal, tetanus, and flu vaccines such as the H1N1 vaccine (62 KB) . [39]
Vaccines clog and disrupt the lymphatic system with large foreign protein molecules (the active ingredients contained within vaccines) which may lead to lymphatic cancers such as leukemia and lymphoma. [15]
All vaccines cause immune system suppression, and can permanently damage the natural immune system. Unvaccinated children build and strengthen their immune systems through fighting off infection and developing natural immunity to diseases like measles and chickenpox. Artificial immunity, generated through vaccination, weakens the immune system and leaves children more vulnerable to all other diseases and infections. [16]
Children should not be required to receive the DPT (diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus) vaccine. Some studies have shown that children who receive the DPT vaccine exhibit shallow breathing which has been associated with sleep apnea and may be a causal factor in sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Studies of infants whose deaths were recorded as SIDS show a temporal relationship with DPT vaccination (these infants tended to die at similar time intervals in relation to when they were vaccinated). [17]
Children should not receive the hepatitis B vaccine. Hepatitis B is a blood-born disease and is primarily spread by sexual intercourse and intravenous drug use. Children are not at great risk of contracting the disease. In addition, researchers have found that immunization with the hepatitis B vaccine is associated with an increased risk of developing multiple sclerosis. [18]
Young girls should not receive mandatory vaccination for HPV (human papilloma virus). The vaccine was approved in 2006 and the long-term effects are unknown. Since approval, adverse side effects such as severe allergic reactions, Guillain-Barré syndrome, spinal cord inflammation and pancreatitis have been reported to the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System. Although these adverse reactions may be rare, they are not worth the risk since the vaccine only protects against two of the 15 strains of HPV that may cause cancer of the cervix (20-40 years after an individual is infected). [19]
Vaccines are promoted primarily to generate profits for manufacturers and financial donations for medical organizations that endorse vaccines. In 2003, a House Committee on Government Reform report (4 MB) [40] revealed that the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices had members with significant financial ties to vaccine companies. The American Academy of Pediatrics, a leading pro-vaccination organization, receives millions of dollars from vaccine companies. [20]“
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30th September 2012 at 9:40 pm
A Real American says:
lipoh slays liberal Plato Platypus with facts.
Liberal douchebags can never refute facts, they just scream, wave their hands, claim racism, and resort to name calling.
California is bankrupt, as are most of it’s cities. It should be sold to Japan or China, before the Mexicans take it over. It deserves it’s fate: world class shithole.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 9:43 pm
llpoh says:
Here is what I have read, and believe. Deaths and serious illness will be greatly reduced by across the board vaccination. Statistics seem to favor this view.
But there is a psychological factor at work, or so studies suggest. Some parents prefer to take the increased chance of death by illness rather than risk the much smaller chance of death by vaccination. Parents cannot face the possibility, psychologically, that their direct action could, however unlikely, result in their child’s death. They are more psychologically prepared to take the chance of their child’s death via inaction. I am not a psychologist and am skeptical of these type of analysis, but it seems to make sense.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 9:47 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
I think it is hilarious that I have been declared a “liberal” HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Whatever makes you feel most comfortable at night ARA and IIPOH….
The amount of bullshit swallowed by those who immediately play the Democrat Republican….”liberal” vs “conservative” cards is astounding!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 9:50 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
From your above copy and pasted info IIPOH I don’t see how you have “WON?”
But if you feel that you have then that is all that matters….
Alas, dinner calls.
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30th September 2012 at 9:53 pm
llpoh says:
ARA – perhaps my position re those that do not vaccinate are somewhat extreme. Go figure. You are dead right re liberals! (In fairness, I enjoy a good bout of name-calling myself, so I will not hold that against him!)
The rest of what I have said is accurate. The laws exist, and have existed, for 2 centuries. The Supreme Court upholds the legality of those laws. All states have the laws. All statistics indicate that the benefits far outweigh the risk. All statistics indicate that vaccination programs can severely reduce the incidence of disease. As many diseases become resistant to antibiotics (whooping cough is making a comeback), it may be increasingly important to immunize so as to prevent the disease from mutating and becoming treatment resistant.
I enjoyed your comment. Very nice imagery indeed.
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30th September 2012 at 9:55 pm
llpoh says:
Plato – I have not declared victory, as the thread is but a yapping puppy. I didn’t call you a liberal (ARA did), but I agree with ARA on that, at least with respect to this issue. Your response is consistent with “liberals” being slayed with facts (thanks to ARA for that turn of phrase). My cut and paste was for balance, as it showed 2 sides to the argument. I believe reasonable people can clearly see that the “pro” side is logical, while the “con” side is more emotional.
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30th September 2012 at 10:00 pm
newsjunkie says:
Plato – here’s another story that will piss you off about our education system and its future….
http://www.aim.org/special-report/terrorist-professor-bill-ayers-and-obamas-federal-school-curriculum/
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30th September 2012 at 10:17 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Let me get this straight, someone wanting LESS government intervention in their life is being labeled as a liberal?
@llpoh – I’m sorry, by “illegal” I should have said “immoral.” My apologies.
Also, your reports on pertussis are spot on.
My opinion remains the same: Those who choose not to give their kids MMR or the tetanus are doing their children a grave injustice, and worse, are possibly endangering other parents’ lives.
That being said the nanny state should not have the ability to decide that people have to have certain shots. I’m sorry, but Big Pharma and government are inextricably linked at this point and you are going to have a tough time selling me that “they know whats best” for me.
One last addendum:
In the case of something like smallpox, I will allow that it WAS in humanities best interest and TPTB actually did know whats best…..a blind hog finds an ear of corn every once in a while. Gardasil is the most poignant reminder of why I’m against mandated vaccinations, pharma told politicians “OH YEAH ITS GREAT MAKE THEM ALL TAKE IT LOL”
Fucking Rick Perry. Conservative my ass, damned neocon piece of shit.
I’ll bend this much llpoh: If real science was what backed up the vaccinations I’d be with you 100%. But I do NOT believe that TPTB give a fuck about us, and I do not want them having anymore control over my life than they already do.
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30th September 2012 at 10:25 pm
Kill Bill says:
Great, a bunch of Californicate fruits nuts and flakes running about with the pox. I jest Shirley.
Actually I dont think people trust whats IN the shot. And, for another thing,, I dont trust government either, but give me a way to SEE whats in that shot, and I will then decide for myself.
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30th September 2012 at 10:26 pm
llpoh says:
How about this – I will agree that the argument that they cannot be trusted has some merit. Maybe a lot of merit. Maybe absolute merit. But ….. certain diseases are too dangerous not to immunize against. I think rubella was one. It has been, for the most part, eliminated.
The fact they cannot be trusted needs to be addressed in and of itself. But we cannot stop immunizing just because of corrupt officials. They need to be dealt with harshly.
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30th September 2012 at 11:05 pm
crazyivan says:
“The fact they cannot be trusted needs to be addressed in and of itself. But we cannot stop immunizing just because of corrupt officials. They need to be dealt with harshly.”- llpoh
They need to be dealt with harshly , huh? So who is going to be this someone who deals out all the harshness. Really, lloph, name who could crack the whip to these “corrupt officials” that isn’t a corrupt oficial.
You are not seeing the forrest for then trees.
Nobody but the popoulous, that in refusing across the board banks of immunizations required by some “corrup oficial”, will change shit.
Maybe you are waiting for Spiderman to come in and sort it all out.
Truly, I see you as some kind of upper rniddle management flack (with a lot of time time on your hands to expound on your frustrated opinions ) and not the founder of anything exceptional.
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30th September 2012 at 12:27 am
harry p. says:
The worst disease i see is collectivism, if you dont own ur body, you dont own anything. Arguing that immunizations for the common cold shouldnt be forced but ones for rubella should means that persons supports coercion and supports slavery when they see it as ok.
I agree education is not a right, its a service provided and controlled by a cartel/monopoly. If i were to choose to homeschool my son i still am forced to pay. The govt does not have a right to force me to fund it but they do force us to fund it, that is not because its moral, they do it because they are thugs with guns.
I know it is not likely these issues will disappear but if we focus on the specific issues we will lose the forrest for the trees and never resolve anything. Focus on developing and applying a set of morals/principles/philosophy and see what kind of person u are.
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30th September 2012 at 12:45 am
crazyivan says:
In a cognative blast, I finally figured out what LLpoh stands for.
Largely Lacking Purposeful Own Honor
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30th September 2012 at 12:45 am
llpoh says:
CrazyIvan – I am upper management flack, and don’t you forget it. I am certainly not the founder of anything exceptional. That is something rare indeed – almost to the point of non-existence these days.
I make no claim whatsoever to having reached those heights of achievement. But I do employ 100 people directly, and so probably employ several hundred indirectly. I am responsible for the payment of many millions per year in taxes as a direct result. I manufacture goods, and I am generally an honest and law-abiding corporate and private citizen. I have achieved something, but I have certainly not scaled supreme heights. How about you?
What can we do? Well, we can vote (or not). We can write letters – I write a lot of them. Sometimes I even get a response. We can vote with our feet and our wallets. We can refuse to submit when we feel strongly about an issue (don’t take the vaccines, and pay the personal price if you think it is wrong. Vote with your backbone, in that case). We can organize protests if we feel strongly enough about something. CrazyIvan, three are many forms of protest that can be made. But most folks do nothing at all. If everyone would simpy write 10 or 20 letters a year – say 2 billion letters (letters, not email, mind you) to 10 different politicians, I truly believe things would change. Make 5 of them to congress, and they would be hit by 1 billion letters per year. Divided by 600 of them means each would get around 2 million letters. That should keep them and their staffs busy. At least 2 million letters would be noticed. Donate money or time to worthy causes. Etc. Etc. Etc.
There are all kinds of things that can be done. Think of some. What do you do to change things? I could do more, but I do some.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 12:46 am
llpoh says:
BTW CrazyIvan, that is quite offensive. You know nothing about me. Especially re my “honor”. You can hardly string 2 words together, such is your lack of education and intelligence. You manage to hire one person at times, who you dutifully fire each year when work slows down, and then you have the unmitigated gall to say I have no honor, and disparage me for employing people? Just what is it you do for society? You farm, which I have often said is a noble profession. You eke out a meager existence (which is something) and disparage those that are more successful. But what is it you do for society?
I assist those I can, and ask nothing in return. I donate to charity. I donate my time. I invest in business. I pay tax. I coach children. Just what is it you do, again?
Seriously, Ivan, you are a low-life piece of shit. You have no idea about honor.
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30th September 2012 at 12:54 am
crazyivan says:
‘There are all kinds of things that can be done. Think of some. What do you do to change things? I could do more, but I do some.’ llpoh
Well said my friend.
“Seriously, Ivan, you are a low-life piece of shit. You have no idea about honor”
Honesty is the essance of honor.
To be honest to others and yourself requires much self doubt.
Of which you seem to be working on.
LLOPOH, I commend you on your recent humility, this is not to be mistaken with your ongoing words of factual fun. You are fun to read. And to a degree (like 95%) you are the shit
I sulute you sir.
With all that said….
You finally admitted that you don’t own the company that you so often eluded to
.
.
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30th September 2012 at 3:42 am
prtrb'd says:
Immunization is like fluoride is like inflation. Big brother making decisions on what’s best for me. Fuck that, not interested in playing that game. However, one must jump some of the hoops to avoid living as a hermit a week’s hike back in the woods. If you don’t want your kids hauled off to a state shelter they must go to school. I chose to home school, but did not choose to vaccinate them. I don’t like the idea of putting substances in my body that are controversial at best. Fluoride is another one of those. It might come down to adjusting your locale so that you can live as you wish. It’s a big country, and we are still free enough to make some of our own choices. I chose to live back in the bush where the water was clean, but still close enough so I could benefit from the parts of society that suited me.
Inflation is more difficult to deal with. Circumventing, or better yet, benefiting from big bro’s mandate to use their paper requires one to step out of the norm. Drop out of the system as it were. Make your own rules, successful only in varying degrees among various people. Hint: a bank account is only suitable to process financial BS, save your wealth in tangibles.
We have to deal with other people’s intrusions on our life, it’s part of living in society. You build a house on your property in my view shed, I have to deal with it. My un-vaccinated offspring walks a sidewalk next to your vaccinated offspring, they have to deal with it. Big deal, it’s how a free society works. You want to live with big brother making all your decision’s for you? More power to you, but I will avoid that as long as possible. My choice.
Jerry Brown is just another cog in the wheel of a system that thrives on controls and regulations. The question I find myself asking myself over and over is ‘how can I live free in an un-free world?’ The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind.
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30th September 2012 at 7:23 am
Novista says:
llpoh
Well, this was a fun thread to read. I only have one question: how do you identify the person who spread communicable disease so you can have them murdered? Oh, I guess there is another closely related: what do you do with a carrier who has natural immunity? Off them for the general welfare?
TPC, you might expand your reading on scientist’s criticisms of the peer review process.
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30th September 2012 at 7:30 am
Stucky says:
“I believe reasonable people can clearly see that the “pro” side is logical, while the “con” side is more emotional.” ————– llpoh
I can’t decide if you’re trying to be; A) sarcastic, B) funny, C) shit-flinging, or D) just plain stupid.
I could copy and paste (like you did) long anti-vaccine evidence. But, I won’t. The fact of the matter is that there is an enormous amount of ‘non-emotional’ data supporting the dangers of vaccination. The fact is you won’t research it, you have no interest in it, and you would rather resort to name calling and, apparently, murder. “Don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up.”, is your motto regarding this subject.
A quick glance at your posts — they’re mostly such a pretty pink color — indicates that you have lost this debate. Now go stick a flu shot up your ass!
Peace!
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30th September 2012 at 8:50 am
flash says:
Start with the dissipation of all myth.e.g.behold the real reason the British started two wars with Germany which lead top global war…penis envy,
British men have bigger penises than the French according to survey of manhood sizes
Controversial: Richard Lynn, professor of psychology at Ulster University, whose research has been criticised as lacking methodology
But British men are less well endowed than the Germans, ranking 78th out of 113 nationalities according to Professor Richard Lynn at Ulster University (pictured).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210784/British-men-bigger-penises-French-according-survey-manhood-sizes.html
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30th September 2012 at 9:07 am
TeresaE says:
I haven’t read all the comments, but felt compelled to stop and remark before I went further beyond Llpoh’s statement, “…Schooling/education is NOT a Constitutional right. It is a priviledge. As such, those partaking of the priviledge can be required to meet certain criteria, and meet certain conditions. No rights have been violated. If you do not like the conditions, you can home school, send to private school, etc.
Again, I repeat, education is not a right…”
Well big guy, what about if it is the LAW? In Michigan, ALL kids – even geniuses that can read at college level – MUST attend kindergarten. And kindergarten MUST be a full day (our last Unionist Governess enacted this favor to the teacher’s union on her way out), which was implemented this year while dozens of school districts enter complete insolvency (pretty amazing what happens to local tax revenues when 90% of the population only shops at the stores that were gifted no local tax clauses). And they CANNOT enter before the year they turn five by Dec 1.
AND, ALL kids MUST attend school until the age of 18. Yep, we now are housing violent, drug-addicted, defiant, young men and women, for 6 hours everyday, that don’t want to be there and take it out on everyone, day in and day out. Again in a fiscally insolvent environment.
Or the parents go to jail.
What part of that is fucking optional Llpoh? I know Cali has lots of the same bullshit laws, Cali has been trying to outlaw home schooling for years. Last I heard, and our Cali residents might know for sure, but in order to home school your kids you have to have a teaching certificate, or at least it was a bill trying to become law a couple years back.
Then, it brings me to the next obvious point, what if your child is ALLERGIC to a component of the shots? My (soon to be) DIL, is severely allergic to eggs. Eggs are a primary ingredient in many vaccinations.
Blind faith in ANY institution corrupted by the government is insanity, and a HUGE reason why we will never be able to fix our country. Our government, the powers that be, and the corporations, have SHOWN us, time and time and time and time again, that they are not to be trusted. Yet we have place blind faith in THEIR reports, THEIR paid-for science, THEIR committees of overpaid, over-educated, progressive, Agenda 21, fools.
A quick look back over the past century shows us that tens of thousands have died as the direct result of the unholy alliance between big pharm, the government, and the medical establishment. Do some research, find the truth for yourself. It’s out there if you bother to look in other places than the CDC or AMA or FDC.
Now throw in the fact that 1 – “health” care is already unsustainable, adding thousands of dollars of vaccinations per child sure as hell won’t make it cheaper. 2 – many of the vaccinations are produced offshore which has two issues in itself, A – Benny & the Inkjets are working hard (and printing furiously) to force the dollar into the toilet. The cost will only go up from here and B – China & large parts of Asia and other “developing” economies have SHIT records of safety and quality in EVERY industry they produce.
China has NO problem with a few “unintended” deaths to make a buck. Shown us multiple times how true it is. Over 80% of the herd is immunized anyway, this bill will only drive up the (unintended) costs of thousands more having bad reactions – or worse – and drive up the cost of the shots themselves.
How in the HELL can we continue to advocate this shit? Of course, I knew when Cali re-elected Brown (and when Granbitch got her second term), just how over this “republic” is.
Our people are morons, our institutions corrupted, and our information filtered and manufactured.
It floors me how those that see so much of the decay and unholiness, see NONE of it in their own personal pet areas. For some reason, vaccinations are Llpoh’s. He should feel free to encourage his own family to line up for it.
But quit supporting the evil government shoving this shit up my offspring’s asses.
I am thankful, every day, that I have found a natural way to detox following these forced poisonings. At least I can attempt to fix my wee one’s immune system and remove all the heavy metals and other contaminants forced into her body.
Too bad so many refuse to believe ANY health info except what their pharmacy-trained doctor tells them to believe. Good luck with that for them. As I told my dad and sis, you all can take 12 pills/shots a day, and trot off to Walgreens with money you don’t have to buy flu shots (yet get sick anyway), and see your docs & specialists and testing facilities on a regular basis. I’ll just be healthy and plan on going to the doc if I can’t fix it myself. It’s been four years now (for the FIRST time in my entire life I’ve not been sick enough to warrant a doc visit once a year or more) since I’ve had a kidney/bladder infection or strep throat.
Blind faith reminds me of the same blind optimism that pervades the minds of the establishment backers.
We are so fucked.
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30th September 2012 at 9:33 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
“TPC, you might expand your reading on scientist’s criticisms of the peer review process.” – Novista
Earlier in this thread I said the following….
“Here’s my idea on the subject of “peer review”….
though its not perfect, Its certainly more reliable than random internet anecdotal evidence.”
Moving on to someone with a brain stem.
@llpoh
My wife’s work is mandating that all employees receive flu shots from here on out each flu season. The shots are provided by the company. Both allergenic (egg albumen) and non-allergenic (no egg) are being provided.
Despite the fact that the flu shot is essentially a shot in the dark, and has a piss poor track record its still being mandated.
My problem with what you are advocating is that the cut off for “mandatory” and “optional” vaccines is not a clear cut line. There is a grey area involving such scary ideas as “efficacy” and “statistics”.*
Ultimately the decision about what we do with our own bodies should be up to ourselves. How long before its ruled that tatoos are illegal, on the basis that shared needles can spread illness? While thats quite a leap, in light of recent governmental developments its not exactly out of the realm of possibility.
The scientific community has really fucked up in a lot of ways with respect to the knowledge of the general populace. Rather than educate people they have taken the “high road” of sneering down their noses at the uneducated, and making bold statements backed up by nothing more than their PhD and own sense of self-worth.
I believe the revival of diseases we had almost eradicated to be a travesty, but mandating that people receive vaccinations is not the way to do it. Education IS.
1) Stop hiding peer reviewed journals behind massive fees. By and large the peers doing the reviewing are paid very little or not at all. If a journal has no physical copy then the cost to access the website should be as simple as a LOW monthly fee, not the current system of $30 or more for a 2 day access to the article.
2) Kids don’t listen when their parents say “because I said so,” and non-scientists don’t listen when scientists say it either. Educate, don’t pontificate. Arrogant fucking PhDs. Quite obviously I am not attacking all of them (I would have no friends very quickly), however the ones taking the stage in politics and world decisions are quite frequently asses of the highest order, with every desire to increase their own power and little desire to do “the right thing.” In short, they are just politicians, albeit with fancy sounding degrees on their CV.
3) Bring back science/math in the classroom. Unfortunately what should be the easiest one is probably the hardest. Our education system is so fucking terrible that children hardly have a true science class these days. Its little more than a “natural explorations” class, where they learn about trees, the water cycle, plate tectonics….and thats about it. Fuck, I’ve covered that much in a three day session with 3rd graders before.
No Child Left Behind is succeeding wonderfully.
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30th September 2012 at 10:09 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
*NOTE: I meant that those terms are scary to the general populace, who has no idea what the term “efficacy” means and their knowledge of statistics beings and ends with that damned annoying quote from Mark Twain.
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30th September 2012 at 10:14 am
PlatoPlubius says:
Wow! Teresa you brought up many great points. I too have recently begun detoxifying my body naturally through my diet. It is an amazing feeling watching the weight fall off….my wifey bought some HEMP OIL that we mix into our smoothies every morning….I highly recommend it for its fat burning properties!
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30th September 2012 at 12:30 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
For much of the discussion above the debate has surrounded “vaccines” in general with no mention of adjuvants like thimerosal (as seen in the picture I posted at the beginning of my rant above)….this shit like Mercury is toxic to life yet you want me to put it in my kids? and we wonder why our kids can’t sit still in schools (besides their diet of course and all the frankenfoods) or new developmental and neurological disorders
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30th September 2012 at 12:44 pm
indiejen says:
TeresaE, you slayed it with that post. Thank you. We are truly, utterly, “so fucked.”
The fact that states are mandating vaccines is utterly chilling. I see this as an ominous path that leads directly to full enslavement. This is not about public health. Anyone who thinks the vaccine issue is purely about public health surely thinks the fluoride in their municipal water is doing wonders for public health.
“Schooling/education is NOT a Constitutional right. It is a priviledge. As such, those partaking of the priviledge can be required to meet certain criteria, and meet certain conditions. No rights have been violated. If you do not like the conditions, you can home school, send to private school, etc.
Again, I repeat, education is not a right.” LLPOH
It’s clear to me that LLPOH is viewing this issue from the standpoint of an elite business owner. His employees must meet certain criteria and maintain certain conditions throughout their employ. These might include drug tests. Perhaps smoking is forbidden anywhere on company property. Whatever the criteria, it is of and by his determination and employees must comply. And of course, any such determinations do not violate the “rights” of the employees, as they are free to seek employment elsewhere. Working, especially working for LLPOH, is a privilege. He’s merely projecting this notion when he says that schooling is a privilege, too. Never mind that it’s not a reasonable comparison. It’s about being deemed worthy in LLPOH’s eyes.
This myopic viewpoint is further revealed by LLPOH’s inclination to call PlatoPlubius a liberal. Anyone who doesn’t fall obediently into compliance with the rules must be a dope-smoking, crazy subversive who threatens to upset LLPOH’s apple cart and infect his dutiful herd of minions. Clearly he’s not wearing the right prescription glasses to see the full, true breadth of the vaccine issue.
“If someone decides to avoid a vaccination, for whatever reason, then contracts a communicable disease and spreads it, resulting in deaths, I have no problem whatsoever finding them guilty of murder. They made a conscious decision to take the risk, and the result of their decision was the death of innocent persons. To me, that is murder. Pure and simple.” LLPOH
To me, that is pure simpleton.
“Please, buy a clue on this.” LLPOH
Your ego reflects your myopia. How many times are you going to tell us how fucking great you are while you put down others based on your assumptions that they don’t produce anything or provide any good for society? And you say you should be thanked, all because your input on this thread has been such an affront to sensibility that numerous people have chosen to comment. Un-fucking-believable. Your ego is off the charts, man. This comment thread provides a real opportunity to check your reality. Contrary to your belief, you are not, in fact, the singular voice of reason. Don’t believe everything you think.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 12:54 pm
indiejen says:
I screwed up the italics. Fairly certain the differing voices can be discerned. Line above and all lines below bold type are mine.
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30th September 2012 at 12:56 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
Indiejen! That was priceless! Some nuggets of greatness that bare repeating: In reference to IIPOH: “Your ego is off the charts, man”
I couldn’t agree more…and I did not get to that conclusion merely by this thread…it has taken several years of visiting this site to figure that out…
and another great one “Don’t believe everything you think” Priceless! I might have to borrow tht one.
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30th September 2012 at 1:07 pm
Stucky says:
Holy Shit.
The United States Navy proudly unveils its newest battleship, the U.S.S. Indiejen
This evening could be interesting if/when llpoh returns. Batten down the hatches!!!!
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30th September 2012 at 1:20 pm
PlatoPlubius says:
Thanks for the link NewsJunkie….Yeah, hear all about “common core” standards….The micromanaging of the teachers is becoming ridiculous. The great older teachers from the Baby Boomer Gen are retiring and leaving the void for these new teachers trained in the past 6 years with all these “new” and “proven” teaching techniques like “think, pair, share” or this new one for our discipline procedure (which is a crock of shit!!) HOW MANY CHANCES DO KIDS GET NOWADAYS??? In my personal opinion, WAY TOO FUCKING MANY….I GUESS I’m a Liberal right?! We allow our students to be suspsended a total of 20 days before they are even CONSIDERED and I emphasize CONSIDERED for expulsion….I attribute this to NCLB and state funding for the kids….the district gets paid for each period a student is present at school….and districts are competing against one another for revenue…it would make sense they would want to keep their student numbers high….AND OF COURSE THEY SAY THEY ARE DOING IT FOR THE BENEFITS OF THE KIDS….Laughable…..it’s all about self preservation!
We have adopted a behaior/discipline plan from the Dept of SPecial Education….that should tell you something about the quality of the product we turn out. The fact that we are using the Dept of Educations Special Ed divisions flow chart on behavior to correct the behavior of all populations of students district wide…and what I’ve seen in my research this is happening in most states.
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30th September 2012 at 1:29 pm
ciaparker says:
Thanks to Governor Brown for a wonderful solution to the problem! I’ve already written to thank him for finding a way to placate Big Pharma and its minions while allowing parents a way to avoid damaging their children with vaccines. I got MS from a tetanus booster, my daughter got autism from the hep-B vaccine at birth, which I had said I didn’t want her to get, and a DTaP booster at 18 months (after having caught pertussis after getting vaxed at 2, 4, and 6 months). Vaccines are insane, and growing numbers of parents are refusing to go along with this insane program.
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30th September 2012 at 2:10 pm
indiejen says:
I’m confident that those in favor of mandatory vaccines will be comforted by the existence of the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html
Gee, could there be anything wrong with vaccines?
If you think not, don’t bother reviewing the government’s Vaccine Injury Table. It might initiate further inquiry into your own reality.
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html#a
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 2:52 pm
Llpoh says:
That you nitwits do not consider that someone who spreads a communicable disease after refusing inoculation to be committing a crime is dumbfounding. That you consider it your right to do so is seriously disturbing and anti- social to the extreme. Glad that that position isn’t mainstream.
Teresa – glad your way is working out for you. As for your post, first I get Plato screaming that they will not let certain kids in school, and then you howl they won’t keep certain kids out. I clearly stated that they should require proper behavior, etc, above. Guess you missed that. BTW – I also went out of my way to find non-mainstream facts. I also commented re allergies. But the 33,000 per year saved by vaccine wins the day. Gee, I see you did not comment on that little factoid.
Indie – the only ones commenting are the vocal minority of anti-vaccine nutjobs. Same way a 9/11 thread draws in truthers. Please do not think that anti-vaccine positions are the norm, as it is not so. The only regs I put in place re my employees are safety driven and/or relate directly to the performance of their work. But thanks for playing.
Seriously, the reason we are fucked is that people cannot discern between freedom and social good. Both are necessary. It is a fine balance. It is often out of balance. But allowing people to spread communicable disease with impunity through the community cannot be allowed.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 4:26 pm
Llpoh says:
Indie – of course work is not a right, you socialist moron.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 4:28 pm
George says:
It is really beyond me why people believe this bullshit about 68 vaccines being necessary for a child born today ( by the time they graduate HS), when no other industrialized country has these insane “standards”. Countries like Sweden give less than 20, and somehow the disease rates there are not skyrocketting. My mom, my dad, my grandparents did not need or get all these vaccines and they are doing very well. Now they are coming out with adult vaccines, many are in the works. Just wait, we’re next in line. So for those that say that it is ONLY bc we need to control communicable diseases, fuck off… It sure has nothing to do with big pharma… No long-term randomized control trials on the effect on the immune system, nothing. Shut the fuck up and take it. We say it’s safe and any indication it might not be, is just bc you’re fucking stupid and we know better. Gardasil banned in Japan….., the japs are stupid. Move along it’s all for your own good. Return to your regularly scheduled foot ball game fucktard…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 6:01 pm
crazyivan says:
” I have achieved something, but I have certainly not scaled supreme heights. How about you?”- llpoh
Well no , your’e right llpoh. Anything above about 300 ft makes my ass pucker a little. It’s not so much the fear of falling out of the airplane, as it is the thoughts that one must go though ones mind on
that thirty second ride to instant death..
But then again, I have never thought myself an eagle, A seagull maybe, but we all know what seagulls are like. They are the reason people like you call them “fuckin seagulls”.
Your type is the kind I call “educated beyond your intellignce”
By the way, in an earlier thread you told me that you were done with me, and I was looking forward to that. .
Hereafter, I will make no attempt whatsoever to dissect your ego driven drival and concentrate on Mary Malone’s obviously plump boobs. Life will be much better for me and you as well. So long LLPOH.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 6:49 pm
llpoh says:
I gave you a thumbs up, Ivan. I will disagree with one point, though – I am educated somewhat below my intelligence. I liked the seagull stuff. BTW – my ass puckers below 300 feet. High is good, low is bad. But you know that.
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30th September 2012 at 7:52 pm
crazyivan says:
George,
George, George… George of the jungle.
Strong as he may be.
Is the winner in this thread.
It is actually the essence of this thread.. Despite juvinal discussions amongst the monkeys like *****
and myself on occasion, he actually addresses the issue of forced vacintations.
And to an astounding degree he is ruthlessly right.
Where he does come up short though is that he does not realize and has nor prepared fror is the dribble emminating from llpoh’s hairbrain. I am rooting for you george. You are a winner. Not like me or Charlie Sheen, you are a real winner
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30th September 2012 at 7:59 pm
crazyivan says:
I gave you a thumbs up, Ivan. I will disagree with one point, though – I am educated somewhat below my intelligence. I liked the seagull stuff. BTW – my ass puckers below 300 feet. High is good, low is bad. But you know that.
Even as I pontificated that I would no longer respond to your drival, I am a weak person, and I just can’t stand your attitude.
First the obvious. You do not read other peoples statements in order to understand. This is partly why I threadend a boycott on any of your thoughts.
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30th September 2012 at 8:49 pm
llpoh says:
CI – the high is good low is bad refers to flying. We have that endeavor in come. Not that I have scaled your heights in that field. I am just a basic Cessna jockey.
I read your comments, but frequently do not understand.
You (and many others) understand what is wrong with the western world, in general terms. That you so vilify employers for their “attitude” is unfortunate. It is the employers that are the golden goose. Employers exist to turn a profit, and their ability to turn a profit rests on their ability to control and utilize their resources. Labor is a key resource. The same way you cannot afford to hire someone year around owing to the cost, employers base their decisions, ultimately, on cost/benefit. It seems to me it is that that you, and others, dislike. That employers are evil in that they take business decisions, as opposed to taking decisions that are for the good of the employee.
Good luck to all when the last small business person has left the building. The party will be truly over then.
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30th September 2012 at 9:29 pm
crazyivan says:
Here is where you got me entirly wrong llpoh.
Firstly, of way less importance,I tried to convey that the closer to the ground you fly the less far you have to fall. Not the opposite as you suggest. Alitutude is way overerated. Smash, that being airspeed is what solves poblems.
So getting away from that bullshit, I will try substantite my feelings on the emplyer vs. the emplyee thingy.
It is very apparent to me that the employer is the driving force that supports the employee. It is also the stream of income that is passed to the employee.
It is not rocket science. It’s only when one or the other starts to thinh that one can do without thr other that things break deown.
So by all means make gentle love to your little sister before she can demand suitable compensation.
The key concept is gentle.
I am truly trying to help you, LLPOH, it’s just that you just seem to ignore positive input.
.
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30th September 2012 at 10:47 pm
llpoh says:
Ivan – I haven’t gone batshit at you. Just a general conversation. I defer to your wisdom re flying. I do not fly low as I do not have the skills for it – my only time was an extended cross country where the instructor made me fly low the whole 3 hours to simulate encroaching cloud and to force me to find the landing strip from a very low angle, which is difficult for a newbie, or was for me.
Re employees – I cannot do without. Bad employees, yes. Employees overall, no. Problem is, everyone thinks they are good employees, and no one thinks they are bad. And therein lies the difficulty, as for sure and certain many, many employees are not good.
My little sister? WTF?
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30th September 2012 at 10:53 pm
crazyivan says:
Really llpoh, I have to go to bed. And for the record, as much fun as you are to converse with I would never endevour to film you with anybody’s sister, with the possible exception of an inprompto event with SSS’s Romanian cousin (of sorts).
Sleep well llpoh, you are loved and much appreiciated by multitudes.
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30th September 2012 at 11:20 pm
SSS says:
Wow, one of the better shit-throwing contests on TBP for quite some time. Thanks for the article posted, Plato. Generated some really thoughtful comments, including yours. So let me get this up front and say this. On a legal basis, I generally agree with llpoh. Here’s why.
“All school ……. immunization laws are state-based. There are no federal laws mandating immunizations for school entry …. in this country,” which the Supreme Court has upheld. Get it, people? This is a pure 10th Amendment issue. If you don’t like the laws your state has passed on school immunization, then get the laws of your STATE changed. And thank God the federal government hasn’t tried to interject its sorry ass into one more issue that’s absolutely none of their business.
I strongly agree that some states are really over-the-top with some of their laws on this school immunization shit, particularly if it involves flu shots. Back in my childhood days, it was smallpox and polio (people stampeded to get the polio vaccine for their children, as I recall). I got measles and chickenpox, but not mumps. I lived. Now it’s a list as long as your arm.
Anyway, if you don’t like your state’s laws on school immunizations, at least you don’t have to go to Washington DC. Look up the state senator and representative for your legislative district. He or she just might be your neighbor. Isn’t that a refreshing change?
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30th September 2012 at 11:21 pm
SSS says:
@ flash
I don’t know whether or not your “length of penis” comments and link thereto were intentional, but I must say that the relevance of same to school immunizations hit a new standard for “staying on topic” here on TBP. Far superior to Admin’s article on investing in gold which immediately segweyed into a discussion on bat guano.
Well done, flash.
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30th September 2012 at 11:51 pm
SSS says:
@ TeresaE
Llpoh is correct. Education is NOT a right. A right is what the government CANNOT do to you, such as exercising your freedom of speech. That is your RIGHT.
A LAW is what the government CAN DO to you if you do not follow what is written in the law, such as having your child immunized before attending a public school.
Regardless of whether or not the Founding Fathers supported an educated electorate (they did), nothing in the Constitution mandates public education. Nothing. Laws on education are written by the states, which is fine by me. But education is NOT a right. It is a just a law.
Your (unpaid and unappreciated) Constitutional lawyer,
SSS
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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30th September 2012 at 12:16 am
llpoh says:
SSS – it was fun. Me against the world? Almost a fair fight! They could have used a bit more help, but they tried hard. People confuse rights with laws all the time. I hope we leave rights just pretty much where they are, and we sure do need to address some of the laws. TeresaE was absolutely right to point out some absurdities that need to be addressed.
As I told Plato early on – vitriol sells. Almost 100 comments so far – without me as target it would have attracted twenty.
Plato – in all seriousness, thanks for taking the time to put this stuff up. It is a real benefit to the site, in my opinion, when people post articles. Even better when they bring out the froth and venom. Well done.
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30th September 2012 at 12:30 am
Novista says:
TPC
Now I know why some call you Pissy. Far from “random internet anecdotal evidence” I could provide you with real articles by real scientists on the real flaws in peer review — but you’re just not worth it.
So … brain stem, huh?
I take umbrage at your remark, sirrah, and I shall smite thee with a modest lightning bolt and a pineapple suppository, kill your cattle, plow your land with salt, sell your wife into slavery in Tajikhstan, drink your whiskey, rape your daughters, burn your house, shoot your dawg and … just be glad you haven’t made me really mad.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 12:49 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
My point was that I’d trust them over YOUR word specifically.
Believe it or not, I believe the system is deeply flawed.
But its a whole fuck ton better than the 99 million “doctor moms” scampering around screaming like bluejays about how dem der shots gave dem der babbies duh AUTIZM.
Quit straw-manning you errorgant twat.
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30th September 2012 at 12:52 am
Colma Rising says:
Crazy Ivan:
Does your favorite antelope’s ass pucker up when it smells gatorade and vodka?
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30th September 2012 at 12:53 am
Colma Rising says:
The next person to use the term “straw man” gets a net beatdown.
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30th September 2012 at 12:56 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Crazy Ivan hard at play:
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30th September 2012 at 12:56 am
Colma Rising says:
“Home, home on the range!!!”
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30th September 2012 at 1:05 am
llpoh says:
Colma – lmao.
I just had an epiphany – anti-vaccination folks are just sissies and are afraid of shots, and are just too embarrassed to say so.
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30th September 2012 at 1:19 am
Novista says:
llpoh
I’d venture a guess that you pussy flyboys were treated like people as compared to us grunts.
Most likely, given I took maybe two steps after the last of 14, it was the cholera one. So shove your epiphany up your gilded ass.
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30th September 2012 at 7:11 am
Stucky says:
Very long article, with references, written by a doctor. Tough shit on the length!!
I’m posting it to help educate that Maroon of Maroons, llpoh — who would never just click on just the link …. it might just ruin his preconceived ideas.
===================================================================
THE CASE AGAINST IMMUNIZATIONS*
By Richard Moskowitz, M. D.
For the past ten years or so, I have felt a deep and growing compunction against giving routine vaccinations to children. It began with the fundamental belief that people have the right to make that choice for themselves. But eventually the day came when I could no longer bring myself to give the shots, even when the parents wished me to. I have always believed that the attempt to eradicate entire microbial species from the biosphere must inevitably upset the balance of Nature in fundamental ways that we can as yet scarcely imagine. Such concerns loom ever larger as new vaccines continue to be developed, seemingly for no better reason than that we have the technical capacity to make them, and thereby to demonstrate our right and power as a civilization to manipulate the evolutionary process itself.
Purely from the viewpoint of our own species, even if we could be sure that the vaccines were harmless, the fact remains that they are compulsory, that all children are required to undergo them, without sensitivity or proper regard for basic differences in individual susceptibility, to say nothing of the values and wishes of the parents and the children themselves. Most people can readily accept the fact that, from time to time, certain laws may be necessary for the public good that some of us strongly disagree with. But the issue in this case involves nothing less than the introduction of foreign proteins or even live viruses into the bloodstream of entire populations. For that reason alone, the public is surely entitled to convincing proof, beyond any reasonable doubt, that artificial immunization is in fact a safe and effective procedure, in no way injurious to health, and that the threat of the corresponding natural diseases remains sufficiently clear and urgent to warrant the mass inoculation of everyone, even against their will if necessary.
Unfortunately, such proof has never been given; and even if it could be, continuing to employ vaccines against diseases that are no longer prevalent or dangerous hardly qualifies as an emergency. Finally, even if there were such an emergency, and artificial immunization could be shown to be an appropriate response to it, the decision would remain at bottom a political one, involving issues of public health and safety that are far too important to be settled by any purely scientific or technical criteria, or indeed by any criteria less authoritative than the clearly articulated sense of the community about to be subjected to it.
For all of these reasons, I want to present the case against routine immunization as clearly and forcefully as I can. What I have to say is not quite a formal theory capable of rigorous proof or disproof. It is simply an attempt to explain my own experience, a nexus of interrelated facts, observations, reflections, and hypotheses, which taken together are more or less coherent and plausible and make intuitive sense to me. I offer them to the public in large part because the growing refusal of some parents to vaccinate their children is so seldom articulated or taken seriously. The fact is that we have been taught to accept vaccination as a kind of involuntary Communion, a sacrament of our participation in the unrestricted growth of scientific and industrial technology, utterly heedless of the long-term consequences to the health of our own species, let alone to the balance of Nature as a whole. For that reason alone, the other side of the case urgently needs to be heard.
1. Are the Vaccines Effective?
There is widespread agreement that the time period since the common vaccines were introduced has seen a remarkable decline in the corresponding natural infections; but the usual assumption that the decline is attributable to the vaccines remains unproven, and continues to be seriously questioned by eminent authorities in the field. The incidence and severity of whooping cough, for example, had already begun to decline precipitously long before the pertussis vaccine was introduced (1), a fact which led the epidemiologist C. C. Dauer to remark, as far back as 1943,
If the mortality [from pertussis] continues to decline at the same rate during the next 15 years, it will be extremely difficult to show statistically that [pertussis immunization] had any effect in reducing mortality from whooping cough.(2)
Much the same is true not only of diphtheria and tetanus, but also of TB, cholera, typhus, typhoid, and other common scourges of a bygone era, which began to disappear toward the end of the Nineteenth Century, largely in response to improvements in public health and sanitation, but in any case long before antibiotics, vaccines, or any specific medical measures designed to eradicate them.(3)
Reflections such as these led the great microbiologist René Dubos to observe that microbial diseases have their own natural history, independent of drugs and vaccines, in which asymptomatic infection and symbiosis are much more common than overt disease:
It is barely recognized, but nevertheless true, that animals and plants, as well as men, can live peacefully with their most notorious microbial enemies. The world is obsessed by the fact that poliomyelitis can kill and maim several thousand unfortunate victims every year. But more extraordinary is the fact that millions upon millions of young people become infected by polio viruses, yet suffer no harm from the infection. The dramatic episodes of conflict between men and microbes are what strike the mind. What is less readily apprehended is the more common fact that infection can occur without producing disease.(4)
The principal evidence that the vaccines are effective actually dates from the more recent period, during which time the dreaded polio epidemics of the 1940’s and 1950’s have never reappeared, at least in the developed world, while measles, mumps, and rubella, which even a generation ago were among the commonest diseases of childhood, have become much less prevalent, at least in their classic acute forms, since the triple MMR vaccine was introduced into common use. Yet how the vaccines actually accomplish these changes is not nearly as well understood as most people like to think it is. The disturbing possibility that they act in some other way than by producing a genuine immunity is suggested by the fact that the corresponding natural diseases have continued to break out, even in highly immunized populations, and that in such cases the observed differences in incidence and severity between immunized and non-immunized populations have often been much less dramatic than expected, and in some cases not measurably significant at all.
In a recent British outbreak of whooping cough, for example, even fully-immunized children contracted the disease in large numbers, and their rates of serious complications and death were not reduced significantly.(5) In another recent outbreak, 46 of the 85 fully-immunized children studied eventually contracted the disease.(6) In 1977, 34 new cases of measles were reported on the UCLA campus, among a population that was supposedly 91% immune, according to careful serological testing.(7) In 1981, another 20 cases were reported in the area of Pecos, New Mexico within a few-month period, and 75% of them had been fully immunized, some quite recently.(8) A survey of sixth-graders in a well-immunized urban area similarly revealed that about 15% of this age group are still susceptible to rubella, a figure essentially identical with that of the pre-vaccine era.(9) Finally, while the incidence of measles has dropped sharply, from about 400,000 cases annually in the early 1960’s to about 30,000 by 1974-76, the death rate has remained exactly the same (10), while among adolescents and young adults, the group with the highest incidence at present, the risk of pneumonia and liver abnormalities has increased quite substantially, to well over 3% and 20%, respectively.(11)
The simplest explanation for these discrepancies would be to stipulate that vaccines confer at most partial and temporary immunity, which sounds reasonable enough, inasmuch as they consist of either live viruses, rendered less virulent by serial passage in tissue culture, or bacteria and bacterial products that have been killed by heat and/or chemical adjuvants, such that they can still elicit an antibody response without initiating a full-blown disease. In other words, the vaccine is a “trick,” in the sense that it simulates the true or natural immunity developed in the course of recovering from the natural disease, and it is therefore reasonable to expect that such artificial immunity will in fact “wear off” in time, and even require additional “booster” doses at regular intervals throughout life to maintain peak effectiveness.
Such an explanation would be disturbing enough to most people. Indeed, the basic fallacy in it is already evident in the fact that there is no way to know how long this partial, temporary immunity will last in any given individual, or how often it will need to be restimulated, since the answers to these questions presumably depend on the same individual variables that would have determined whether and how severely the same person, if unvaccinated, would have contracted the disease in the first place. In any case, a number of other observations suggest equally strongly that this simple explanation cannot be the correct one. In the first place, one careful study has shown that when a person vaccinated against the measles again becomes susceptible to it, even repeated booster doses will have little or no long-lasting effect.(12) In the second place, the vaccines do not act merely by producing pale or mild copies of the original disease; they also commonly produce a variety of symptoms of their own, which in some cases may be more serious than the disease, involving deeper structures, more vital organs, and less of a tendency to resolve themselves spontaneously, as well as being typically more difficult to recognize.
Thus in a recent outbreak of mumps in supposedly immune schoolchildren, several developed atypical symptoms, such as anorexia, vomiting, and erythematous rashes, but no parotid involvement, and hence could not be diagnosed without extensive serological testing to rule out other concurrent diseases.(13) The syndrome of “atypical measles” can be equally difficult to diagnose, even when it is thought of (14), which suggests that it may not seldom be overlooked entirely. In some cases, atypical measles can be much more severe than the regular kind, with pneumonia, petechiæ, edema, and severe pain (15), and likewise often goes unsuspected.
In any case, it seems virtually certain that other vaccine-related syndromes will be described and identified, if only we take the trouble to look for them, and that the ones we are aware of so far represent only a very small part of the problem. But even these few make it less and less plausible to assume that vaccines produce a normal, healthy immunity that lasts for some time but then wears off, leaving the patient miraculously unharmed and unaffected by the experience.
2. Some Personal Experiences.
I will now present a few of my own vaccine cases, to give a sense of their variety, to show how difficult it can be to trace them, and also to begin to address the underlying question that is seldom asked, namely, how the vaccines actually work, i. e., how they do whatever it is that they do inside the body, and how they produce the results that we see clinically in the patient.
My first case was that of an 8-month-old girl with recurrent fevers of unknown origin. I first saw her in January 1977, a few weeks after her third such episode. These were brief, lasting 48 hours at most, but very intense, with the fever often reaching 105˚F. During the second episode she was hospitalized for diagnostic evaluation, but her pediatrician found nothing out of the ordinary. Apart from these episodes, the child appeared to be quite well, and growing and developing normally.
I could get no further information from the mother, except for the fact that the episodes had occurred almost exactly one month apart, and from consulting her calendar we learned that the first one had come exactly one month after the third of her DPT shots, which had also been given at monthly intervals. At this point the mother remembered that the girl had had similar fever episodes immediately after each injection, but that the pediatrician had dismissed them as common reactions to the vaccine, as indeed they are. Purely on the strength of that history, I gave her a single oral dose of the ultradilute homeopathic DPT vaccine, and I am happy to report that she had no more such episodes, and has remained entirely well since.
This case illustrates how homeopathic “nosodes,” or medicines prepared from vaccines or their corresponding diseases, can be used for diagnosis as well as treatment of vaccine-related illness, which, no matter how strongly they are suspected, might otherwise be almost impossible to substantiate. Secondly, because fever is among the commonest reactions to the pertussis vaccine, and the child seemed perfectly well between the attacks, her response to it has to be regarded as a relatively strong and healthy one, disturbing because of its recurrence and periodicity, but also quite simple to cure, as indeed it proved. But I keep wondering what happens to the vaccine inside those tens and hundreds of millions of children who show no obvious response to it at all.
Since that time, I have seen at least half a dozen cases of babies and small children with recurrent fevers of unknown origin, some associated with a variety of other chronic complaints, like irritability, temper tantrums, and increased susceptibility to tonsillitis, pharyngitis, colds, and ear infections, which were similarly traceable to the pertussis vaccine, and which likewise responded beautifully to treatment with the homeopathic DPT nosode. Indeed on that basis I submit that the pertussis vaccine is an important cause of recurrent fevers of unknown origin in this age group.
My second case was that of a 9-month-old girl who presented acutely with a fever of 105˚F., and very few other symptoms. She too had had two similar episodes previously, but at irregular intervals, and her parents, who were ambivalent about vaccinations to begin with, had so far given her only one dose of the DPT vaccine, but her first episode occurred a few weeks afterward.
I first saw her in June of 1978. The fever remained high and unremitting for 48 hours, despite the usual acute remedies and supportive measures. A CBC showed a white-cell count of 32,000 per cu. mm., with 43% lymphocytes, 11% monocytes, 25% neutrophils (many with toxic granulations), 20% band forms (also with toxic granulations), and 1% metamyelocytes and other immature forms. Without giving any history, I showed the smear to a pediatrician friend, and “pertussis” was his immediate reply. After a single dose of the homeopathic DPT vaccine, the fever came down abruptly, and the girl has remained well since.
This case was disturbing mainly because of the hematological abnormalities, which fell within the leukemoid range, together with the absence of any cough or illness with distinctive respiratory symptoms, all suggesting that introducing the vaccine directly into the blood may actually promote deeper or more systemic pathology than allowing the pertussis organism to set up typical symptoms of local inflammation at the normal portal of entry.
The third case was a 5-year-old boy with chronic lymphocytic leukemia, whom I happened to see in August of 1978, while visiting an old friend and mentor, a family physician with over 40 years’ experience. Well out of earshot of the boy and his parents, he told me that the leukemia had first appeared following a DPT vaccination, that he had treated the child successfully with natural remedies on two previous occasions, when the blood picture improved dramatically, and the liver and spleen shrank down to almost normal size, but that full relapse had occurred soon after each DPT booster.
It was shocking enough to think that vaccinations might be implicated in some cases of childhood leukemia, but the idea also completed the line of reasoning opened up by the previous case. For leukemia is a cancerous transformation of the blood and blood-forming organs, the liver, the spleen, the lymph nodes, and the bone marrow, which are also the basic anatomical units of the immune system. Insofar as vaccines are capable of producing serious complications of any kind, the blood and immune organs would be the logical place to begin looking for them.
But perhaps even more shocking to me was the fact that my teacher’s remarkable success in treating this boy did not dissuade his parents from revaccinating him at least two more times, and that the connection between the vaccine and the disease was not generally known to the public or seriously considered by the medical community. It was this case that convinced me of the need for frank and open discussion among doctors and patients alike, about our collective experience with vaccine-related illness. While careful scientific investigation of these matters will hopefully ensue, the level of public commitment required even to frame the question properly seems far away.
I will now present two cases from my limited experience with the MMR vaccine.
In December of 1980 I saw a 3-year-old boy with loss of appetite, stomach ache, indigestion, and swollen glands for the past 4 weeks or so. The stomach pains were quite severe, and often accompanied by belching, flatulence, and explosive diarrhea. The nose was also congested, and the lower eyelids were quite red. The mother also reported some unusual behavior changes, extreme untidiness, “wild” and noisy playing, and waking at 2 a.m. to get in bed with her.
The physical examination was unremarkable except for some large, tender posterior auricular and suboccipital lymph nodes, and marked enlargement of the tonsils. That piqued my curiosity, and I learned that the boy had received his MMR vaccination in October, about 2 weeks before the onset of symptoms, with no apparent reaction to it at the time. I gave him a single doe of the highly- dilute homeopathic rubella vaccine, and the symptoms disappeared within 48 hours.
The following spring, the parents brought him back for a slight fever, and a 3-week history of intermittent pain in and behind the right ear, as well as a stuffy nose and other cold symptoms. On examination, the whole right side of the face appeared to be swollen, especially the cheek and angle of the jaw. He responded well to acute homeopathic remedies, without requiring the mumps nosode, and has remained well since.
This boy exhibited some interesting features that I have learned to recognize in other MMR cases. At an interval of a few weeks after the vaccine, which is roughly the same as the incubation period for the corresponding diseases, a nondescript illness developed, which then became subacute and rather more severe than rubella in the same age group, with abdominal and/or joint pains and marked adenopathy, but no rash. Usually the diagnosis is suspected because of enlargement of the posterior auricular and suboccipital nodes, for which rubella and a few other diseases show a marked affinity, and confirmed by a favorable response to the homeopathic rubella nosode. Furthermore, his second illness, and especially the parotid enlargement, may well have represented continuing activity of the mumps component of the vaccine, although it cleared up so promptly that I never needed to test that hypothesis by using the homeopathic mumps nosode. Either way, it strongly suggests the possibility that a variety of “mixed” or composite syndromes may occur, representing the patient’s responses to two or perhaps all three of the vaccine components, either more or less simultaneously, or one by one over time, as the next case illustrates:
In April of 1981 I first saw a 4-year-old boy for chronic bilateral enlargement of the posterior auricular nodes, which were also somewhat tender at times. The mother had noticed the swelling for about a year, during which time he had also become more susceptible to various upper respiratory infections, none of them very severe. Over the same period of time, she had also observed recurrent parotid swelling at irregular intervals, which began shortly after the MMR vaccine was given at the age of 3.
At his first visit, the boy was not ill, and the mother was about 2 months pregnant; so I decided to observe him but if possible do nothing further until the pregnancy was over. He did develop a mild laryngitis in her third trimester, but it responded well to bed rest and simple acute remedies. The following spring he came down with acute bronchitis, and I noticed that the posterior auricular glands were once again swollen and tender, so I decided to give him a dose of the homeopathic rubella nosode at that point. The cough promptly subsided, and the nodes regressed in size and were no longer tender. But two weeks later, he was back, this time with a hard, tender swelling on the outside of the cheek, near the angle of the jaw, and some pain on chewing or opening the mouth. One dose of the homeopathic mumps nosode was given, and the child has been well since.
What was particularly noteworthy about this case was its strong pattern of chronicity, with an increased susceptibility to weaker, low-grade responses, in contrast to the vigorous, acute responses typically associated with diseases like the measles and the mumps when acquired naturally.
3. How Do the Vaccines Work?
It is dangerously misleading, and indeed the exact opposite of the truth, to claim that a vaccine renders us “immune” to or protects us against an acute disease, if in fact it only drives the disease deeper into the interior and causes us to harbor it chronically instead, with the result that our responses to it become progressively weaker, but show less and less of a tendency to heal or resolve themselves spontaneously. What I propose, then, is to investigate as thoroughly and objectively as I can how the vaccines actually work inside the human body, and to begin by simply paying attention to the implications of what we already know. Consider the process of falling ill with and recovering from a typical acute disease, such as the measles, in contrast with what we can observe following administration of the measles vaccine.
We all know that measles is primarily a virus of the upper respiratory tract, both because it is acquired by susceptible persons through inhalation of infected droplets in the air, and because these droplets are produced by the coughing and sneezing of a patient with the disease. Once inhaled by a susceptible individual, the virus undergoes a prolonged period of silent multiplication, first in the tonsils, adenoids, and accessory lymphoid aggregations of the nasopharynx; later in the regional lymph nodes of the head and neck; and eventually, several days later, it passes into the blood and enters the spleen, the liver, the thymus, and the bone marrow, the “visceral” organs of the immune system.(16) Throughout this “incubation” period, which lasts from 10 to 14 days, the patient typically feels quite well, and experiences few or no symptoms of any kind.(17)
By the time that the first symptoms of measles appear, circulating antibodies are already detectable in the blood, and the height of the symptomatology coincides with the peak of the antibody response.(18) In other words, the “illness” that we call the measles is simply the definitive effort of the immune system to clear this virus from the blood. Notice also that this expulsion is accomplished by sneezing and coughing, i. e., via the same route through which it entered in the first place. It is abundantly clear from the above that the process of mounting and recovering from an acute illness like the measles involves a general mobilization of the immune system as a whole, including inflammation of the previously sensitized tissues at the portal(s) of entry, activation of leukocytes, macrophages, and the serum complement system, and a host of other mechanisms, of which the production of circulating antibodies is only one, and by no means the most important.
Such splendid outpourings indeed represent the decisive experiences in the normal physiological maturation of the immune system in the life of a healthy child. For recovery from the measles not only protects children from being susceptible to it again (19), no matter how many more times they may be exposed to it, but also prepares them to respond promptly and effectively to any other infections they may encounter in the future. The ability to mount a vigorous acute response to infection must therefore be reckoned among the most fundamental requirements of health and well-being that we all share.
By contrast, the live but artificially attenuated measles-virus vaccine is injected directly into the blood, by-passing the normal port of entry, and sets up at most a brief inflammatory reaction at the injection site, or perhaps in the regional lymph nodes, with no local sensitization at the normal portal of entry, no “incubation period,” no generalized inflammatory response, and no generalized outpouring. By “tricking” the body in this fashion, we have accomplished precisely what the entire immune system seems to have evolved to prevent: we have placed the virus directly into the blood, and given it free and immediate access to the major immune organs and tissues, without any obvious mechanism or route for getting rid of it.
The result is the production of circulating antibodies against the virus, which can in fact be measured in the blood; but this antibody response occurs as an isolated technical feat, without any overt illness to recover from, or any noticeable improvement in the general health of the recipient. Indeed I submit that exactly the opposite is true, that the price we have to pay for these antibodies is the persistence of viral elements in the blood for long periods of time, perhaps permanently, which in turn carries with it a systematic weakening of our capacity to mount an acute response, not only to the measles, but to other infections as well.
Far from producing a genuine immunity, then, my suspicion and my fear is that vaccines act by interfering with and even suppressing the immune response as a whole, in much the same way that radiation, chemotherapy, corticosteroids, and other anti-inflammatory drugs do. Artificial immunization focuses on antibody production, a single aspect of the immune process, disarticulates it, and allows it to stand for the whole, in much the same way as chemical suppression of an elevated blood pressure is accepted as a valid substitute for genuine healing or cure of the patient whose blood pressure has risen. It is the frosting on the cake, without the cake. The worst part of this counterfeiting is that it becomes more difficult, if not impossible, for vaccinated children to mount a normally acute and vigorous response to infection, by substituting for it a much weaker, essentially chronic response, with little or no tendency to heal itself spontaneously.
Furthermore, excellent models already exist for predicting and explaining what kinds of chronic disease are likely to result from long-term persistence of viral, bacterial, and other foreign proteins within the cells of the immune system. It has long been known that live viruses, for example, are capable of surviving for years within host cells in a latent form, without necessarily provoking acute disease, simply by attaching their own genetic material (DNA or RNA) as an “episome” or extra particle to the genome of the host cell, and replicating along with it, allowing the latter to continue its normal functions for the most part, but adding new instructions for the synthesis of viral proteins as well.(20)
Latent viruses of this type have already been implicated in three distinct types of chronic disease, namely,
1) recurrent or episodic acute diseases, such as herpes simplex, shingles, warts, etc. (21);
2) “slow-virus” diseases, i. e., subacute or chronic, progressive, and often fatal diseases, such as
kuru, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, possibly Guillain-Barré syndrome, and subacute sclerosing
panencephalitis (SSPE), a rare complication of measles (22); and
3) tumors, both benign and malignant.(23)
In all of these varieties, the latent virus “survives” as a clearly foreign element within the cell, which implies that the immune system must continue to try to make antibodies against it, insofar as it can still respond to it at all. But because the virus is now permanently incorporated within the genetic material of the cell, these antibodies will now have to be directed against the cell itself.
The persistence of live viruses and other foreign antigens within the cells of the host therefore cannot fail to provoke auto-immune phenomena, because attacking and destroying the infected cells is now the only possible way to remove this constant antigenic challenge from the body. Since universal compulsory vaccination introduces live viruses and other highly antigenic material into the blood of virtually every living person, it is not difficult to predict that a significant harvest of auto-immune diseases will automatically result.
Sir Macfarlane Burnet has observed that the various components of the immune system function as if they were collectively designed to help the organism to distinguish “self” from “non-self,” i. e., to help us recognize and tolerate our own cells, and to identify and eliminate foreign or extraneous substances as completely as possible.(24) Lending further credence to this hypothesis are the acute response to infection, as we saw, and the rejection of transplanted tissues or organs from the same species, i. e., homografts, both of which accomplish complete and permanent removal of the offending substances from the body. If Burnet is correct, then latent viruses, auto-immune phenomena, and perhaps cancer could be regarded as different aspects of the same basic reality, which the immune system can neither escape nor resolve. For they all entail a certain degree of chronic immune failure, a state in which it becomes increasingly difficult or impossible for the body either to recognize its own cells as unambiguously its own, or to eliminate its parasites as essentially foreign.
In the case of the attenuated measles virus vaccine, introducing it directly into the blood might continue to provoke an antibody response for a considerable period of time, which of course is the whole point of giving the vaccine, but eventually, as the virus achieves a state of latency, that response would presumably wane, both because circulating antibodies normally cannot cross the cell membrane, and because they are also powerful immunosuppressive agents in their own right.(25) After that, the effect of circulating antibodies would be in effect to imprison the virus inside the cell, i. e., to continue to prevent any acute inflammatory response, until such time as, perhaps under circumstances of an emergency or cumulative stress, this precarious balance breaks down, antibodies begin to be produced in large numbers against the cells themselves, and frank auto-immune phenomena, including necrosis and tissue damage, are likely to appear. In this sense, latent viruses are like biological “time bombs,” set to explode at an indeterminate time in the future.(26)
Auto-immune phenomena have always seemed obscure, aberrant, and bizarre to physicians, because it is not intuitively obvious why the body should suddenly begin to attack and destroy its own tissues. They make a lot more sense, and perhaps should even be regarded as “healthy,” to the extent that destroying chronically infected cells is the only possible way to eliminate an even more serious threat to life, namely, the foreign antigenic challenge persisting within the cells of the host.
According to the same model, tumor formation could be understood as simply a more advanced stage of chronic immune failure, inasmuch as the longer the host is subjected to enormous and constant pressure to make antibodies against itself, the less effective that process will likely become. Eventually, under stress of this magnitude, the auto-immune mechanism itself could break down to the point that the chronically infected and genetically transformed cells, no longer clearly “self” or non-self,” begin to free themselves from the normal restraints of “histocompatibility” within the architecture of the surrounding cells and tissues, and begin to multiply autonomously at their expense. A tumor could then be described as “benign,” if the weakening of histocompatibility remains strictly localized to the tissue of origin, “malignant” if the process spills over into other cell types, tissues, and organs, even in more remote areas, and not necessarily rigidly or permanently one or the other, since they differ primarily in degree and therefore might or might not even change back and forth into each other in due course.
If what I am saying turns out to be true, then all we have achieved by artificial immunization is to have traded off our acute epidemic diseases of past centuries for the weaker and far less curable chronic diseases of the present, with their suffering and disability paid out little by little, rather than all at once, and amortized over the patient’s lifetime. Perhaps even more, I fear that in doing so we have opened up limitless possibilities for new diseases in the future by in vivo genetic recombination within the cells of the race.
4. The Individual Vaccines Reconsidered.
I will now consider each of the vaccines individually, in relation to the natural diseases from which they are derived. The triple MMR vaccine comprises attenuated, live measles, mumps, and rubella viruses, administered in a single intramuscular injection at about 15 months of age. Subsequent booster doses are no longer recommended, except for young women of childbearing age, in whom the risk of Congenital Rubella Syndrome (CRS) is thought to warrant it, even though the effectiveness of such boosters is at best questionable, as we saw.
Before the vaccine era, measles, mumps, and rubella were classified as “routine diseases of childhood,” which most schoolchildren acquired before the age of puberty, and from which nearly all recovered, with lifelong immunity and no complications or sequelæ. But they were not always so harmless. Measles, in particular, is devastating when a population encounters it for the first time. Its importation from Spain undoubtedly contributed to Cortez’ conquest of the mighty Aztec empire with only a handful of soldiers: whole villages were carried off by epidemics of measles and smallpox, leaving only a small remnant of cowed, superstitious warrior to face the bearded conquistadores from across the sea.(27) In more recent outbreaks among isolated, primitive peoples, the case fatality rate from measles averaged 20 to 30%.(28) In these so-called “virgin-soil” epidemics, not only measles, but also polio and many other epidemic diseases take their highest toll of death and serious complications among adolescents and young adults, seemingly healthy and vigorous people in the prime of life, and leave relatively unharmed the group of school-age children before the age of puberty.(29)
The evolution of a disease like the measles from a dreaded killer to a routine disease of childhood presupposes the development of non-specific or “herd” immunity in young children, such that when they are finally exposed to it, it activates defense mechanisms already in place to receive it, resulting in the prolonged incubation period and usually benign, self-limited course described above. Under these circumstances, the rationale for vaccinating young children against it is limited to the fact that a very small number of deaths and serious complications have continued to occur, chiefly pneumonia, encephalitis, and the rare but dreaded subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), a slow-virus disease with an incidence of 1 per 100,000 cases.(30) Pneumonia, by far the commonest of them, is also benign and self-limited in most cases, even without treatment (31), and even in those rare cases when bacterial pneumonia supervenes, adequate treatment is currently available.
By all accounts, then, the death rate from measles is very low in the developed world, the risk of serious complications is very low, and the general benefit to the child who recovers from it, as well as his contacts and descendants, is very great. Even if the vaccine could be shown to lower the risk of death and serious morbidity still further, these small achievements would hardly justify the high probability of auto-immune diseases, cancer, and whatever else may result from the harboring and propagation of latent measles virus in human tissue culture for life.
Ironically, what the vaccine certainly has done is to reverse the historical or evolutionary process to the extent that measles is now once again a disease of adolescents and young adults (32), with a correspondingly higher risk of complications, and a general tendency to produce more illness and disability than it does in grade-school children. As for the claim that it has helped to eliminate measles encephalitis, even in my own relatively small general practice I have already seen two children with major seizure disorders that the parents clearly traced to the measles vaccine, although they would never have been able to prove the connection in court, and never even considered the possibility of compensation. Such cases therefore never make it into the official statistics, and are duly omitted from conventional surveys of the problem, in spite of the fact that injecting measles into the blood would naturally favor a higher incidence of visceral complications affecting the lungs, liver, and brain, organs for which the virus has a known affinity.
The case for immunizing against mumps and rubella seems a fortiori even more tenuous, for exactly the same reasons. Mumps is also essentially a benign, self-limited disease in children before the age of puberty, and recovery from a single attack likewise confers lifelong immunity. The major complication is meningo-encephalitis, mild or subclinical forms of which are relatively common, but the death rate is extremely low (33), and sequelæ are rare. The mumps vaccine is prepared and administered in much the same way as the measles, almost always in the same injection, and the dangers associated with it are also comparable. It too is fast becoming a disease of adolescents and young adults (34), age groups who tolerate it much less well. With them he main complication is epididymo-orchitis, which occurs in 30-40% of affected males past the age of puberty, and usually results in atrophy of the testicle on the affected side (35), but it also shows a definite affinity for the ovary and pancreas, and may attack these organs as well.
For all of these reasons, the greatest favor we could do for our children would be to expose them to the measles and mumps when they reach school age, which would not only protect them from contracting more serious versions after puberty, but would also greatly enhance their immunological maturation with minimal risk, as was the rule before the vaccine was introduced.
The same discrepancy is evident for rubella or “German measles” as well, which in young children is a disease so mild that it frequently escapes detection (36), but in adolescents and adults is much more likely to produce arthritis, purpura, and other systemic indications of greater severity.(37) The main impetus for marketing the vaccine was certainly the recognition of Congenital Rubella Syndrome (CRS), resulting from intrauterine damage to the embryo when the mother acquires the virus in her first trimester of pregnancy (38), and the unusually high incidence of CRS during the rubella outbreak of 1964. Here again, we have an almost entirely benign, self-limited disease made over by the vaccine into a considerably less benign one of adolescents and young adults of reproductive age, precisely the group that most needs to be protected from it, while the easiest and most effective way to prevent it would likewise be to expose kids to the disease in elementary school. Re-infection does sometimes occur after recovery, but much less commonly than after vaccination.(39)
The equation looks rather different for the diphtheria and tetanus vaccines. First of all, both natural diseases are serious and sometimes fatal, even with the best treatment. This is especially true of tetanus, which still carries a mortality of at least 10-20%. Furthermore, these vaccines are not made of live organisms, but only of certain toxins elaborated by them. These poisonous substances are responsible for all of the death and destruction wrought by these diseases, and remain highly antigenic even after being inactivated by heat. Diphtheria and tetanus “toxoids” thus do not protect against infection per se, but only against the systemic action of these poisons, in the absence of which both infections are of minor importance clinically. It is therefore easy to understand why parents might want their children protected against diphtheria and tetanus, if safe and effective protection were available; and both vaccines have been in use for a long time, with a very low incidence of serious complications reported, so that there has been very little public outcry against them.
On the other hand, both diseases are readily controlled by simple sanitary measures and careful attention to wound hygiene, and both have been steadily disappearing from the industrially developed countries since long before the toxoids were introduced. Diphtheria now occurs only sporadically in the United States, often in areas with significant reservoirs of unvaccinated children. But the claim that the vaccine is protective is belied by the fact that, when the disease does break out, the supposedly “susceptible” kids are no more likely to develop it than their fully-immunized contacts. In a 1969 outbreak in Chicago, for example, the Board of Health reported that 25% of the cases had been fully immunized; another 12% had received one or more doses and serologically were fully “immune;” and another 18% had been partly immunized, according to the same criteria.(40)
So once again we are faced with the likelihood that diphtheria toxoid has not produced a genuine immunity to diphtheria, but rather some sort of chronic immune tolerance to it, by harboring highly antigenic residues somewhere within the cells of the immune system, presumably with long-term suppressive effects on the immune mechanism generally. This suspicion earns further credence from the fact that all of the DPT vaccine components are alum-precipitated and preserved with Thimerosal, an organomercury derivative, to preserve them from being metabolized too rapidly, so that the antigenic challenge will continue for as long a time as possible. The fact is that we do not know, or even seem to care, what actually becomes of these foreign substances once they are inside our bodies and those of our children.
Exactly the same questions haunt the seemingly favorable record of the tetanus vaccine, which almost certainly has had some impact in reducing the incidence of tetanus in its classic acute form, yet presumably also persists for years or even decades as a potent foreign antigen within the cells of the immune system, with long-term effects on the immune mechanism that for the present are invisible and therefore impossible to calculate.
Much like diphtheria and tetanus, “whooping cough” began to decline as a serious epidemic threat, as we saw, long before the DPT vaccine was introduced. Moreover, the pertussis vaccine has not been particularly effective, even according to its proponents, and the incidence of known side-effects is disturbingly high. Its power to damage the Central Nervous System or CNS, for example, has received growing attention since Dr. Gordon Stewart and his colleagues reported an alarmingly high incidence of encephalopathy and severe convulsive disorders in British children that were traceable to the vaccine.(41) My own cases, a few of which were cited above, suggest that hematologic disturbances should also be investigated, and that the known complications represent at most a small fraction of the actual total.
In any case, the pertussis vaccine has become controversial even in the United States, where medical opinion remains almost unanimous in favor of vaccines generally, while several other countries, such as West Germany, have discontinued routine pertussis vaccination entirely.(42) The disease pertussis is also extremely variable clinically, ranging in severity from asymptomatic, mild, or inapparent infections, which are not uncommon, to very rare cases in young infants less than 6 months of age, where the mortality is claimed by some to reach 40%.(43) In children over a year old, however, the disease is rarely fatal, or even that serious a threat of future difficulty, despite its intensity, while antibiotics play a very small part in the outcome.(44)
Most of the pressure to immunize at present thus seems attributable to the higher death rate in very young infants, which has led to what to me seems like a terrifying practice of giving this most clearly dangerous of the vaccines to tiny infants, beginning at 2 months of age, when their mothers’ milk would normally protect them from all infections about as well as can ever be done for this age group (45), and its effect on the still-developing blood and nervous systems is most apt to be catastrophic. For all of these reasons, routine pertussis immunization should be discontinued as quickly as possible, until more studies are done to assess and defray the cost of whatever damage it has already done.
Poliomyelitis and the polio vaccines present an entirely different situation. The standard Sabin vaccine is trivalent, consisting of attenuated live polioviruses of each of the three strains known to produce paralytic disease, and administered orally, the same way the infection is acquired in Nature. Thus allowing the recipient to develop something resembling a natural immunity, by sensitizing cells of the digestive tract at the normal portal of entry, could represent a considerable safety factor. On the other hand, wild-type polio viruses produce no symptoms whatsoever in well over 90% of the people who contact them, even under epidemic conditions (46); and of those who do become ill, the vast majority suffer nothing worse than a typical gastroenteritis that is more or less indistinguishable from any other of the common summer diarrheas in children. Only 1 or 2% of them ever progress to the full-blown picture of paralytic “poliomyelitis,” with its typical lesions in the motor neurons of the spinal cord and medulla oblongata.(47) Poliomyelitis thus also requires peculiar and unusual conditions of susceptibility in the host, indeed an anatomical susceptibility, since the virulence of the poliovirus is so low for most people, even under epidemic conditions, and the number of cases resulting in death or permanent disability was always comparatively so small.(48)
Given the fact that polio viruses were ubiquitous before the vaccine was introduced, and could be found routinely in samples of city sewage wherever it was looked for (49), it is evident that effective natural immunity to them was already as close to being universal as it could ever be, and a fortiori that no artificial substitute could ever equal or even approximate that record. Since the virus was of such low virulence to begin with, it is difficult to imagine what else further attenuation of it could possibly accomplish, other than perhaps to abate the full vigor of the natural immune response to it. For the fact remains that even the attenuated virus is still alive, and that the people who were anatomically susceptible to it before are still susceptible to it now. This means that at least some of these same people will develop paralytic polio from the vaccine (50), and that all or most of the others may still be harboring the virus in latent form, perhaps within these same target cells.
The only advantage of giving the vaccine, then, would be to expose the population to the virus when its virulence is lowest (51), i. e., when they are still infants, but this benefit might be more than offset by weakening the immune response, as we have seen. In any case, the whole matter is clearly one of considerable complexity, and also illustrates the hidden dangers and miscalculations inherent in the almost irresistible temptation to try to beat Nature at her own game, to eliminate a problem that cannot be eliminated, the susceptibility to disease itself.
So even in the case of the polio vaccine, which appears to be about as safe as a vaccine ever can be, the same basic dilemma remains. Perhaps the day will come when we will be ready to face the consequences of deliberately feeding live polio viruses to every living infant, and admit that we should have left well enough alone, and addressed ourselves to the art of healing the sick when we have to, rather than the technology of eradicating the possibility of sickness, when we don’t have to, and can’t possibly succeed in any case.
5. Vaccination and the path of Medical Technology.
In conclusion, I want to go back to the beginning, to the essentially political aspects of vaccination, that oblige us to reason and deliberate together about matters of common concern, and to reach a clear decision about how we choose to live. I have stated my own views regarding the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and I hope that others of differing views will do the same. But I am deeply troubled by the atmosphere of fanaticism that surrounds the subject, whereby vaccines are forcibly imposed on the public in the absence of any public health emergency, often against their will, and serious discussion of them is ridiculed, stifled, and ignored by the medical authorities as if the question had been settled definitively and for all time. Here is a the classic triumphalist view, from the great scientist Sir Macfarlane Burnet, whom we have met before:
It is our pride that in a civilized country the only infectious diseases which anyone is likely to suffer are either trivial or easily cured by available drugs. The diseases that killed in the past have been rendered impotent, and in the process general principles of control have been developed which should be applicable to any unexpected outbreak in the future. (52)
Quite apart from the truth or untruth of these claims, they exemplify the smugness and self-righteousness of a profession and a society that worships its own ability to manipulate and control the processes of Nature itself. That is why, as Robert Mendelsohn has said, “we are quick to pull the trigger, but slow to examine the consequences of our actions.”(53) Indeed, methodically slow, one would have to say. In 1978, for example, the American Academy of Pediatrics was commissioned by Congress to formulate guidelines for Federal compensation of “vaccine-related injuries,” and included the following eligibility restrictions in its report:
1. Such a reaction should have been previously recognized as a possible consequence of the vaccine given.
2. Such a reaction should have occurred no more than 30 days following the immunization.(54)
These restrictions would automatically exclude all of the chronic diseases, and indeed everything else except the very few adverse reactions that have so far been identified, which clearly represent no more than a tiny fraction of the problem. Still less can either the government or the medical establishment be considered ignorant of the threat that haunts every parent, that vaccines can cause cancer and other chronic diseases. Precisely that possibility was raised by Prof. Robert Simpson of Rutgers, in a 1976 seminar for science writers sponsored by the American Cancer Society:
Immunization programs against flu, measles, mumps, polio, and so forth, may actually be seeding humans with RNA to form latent proviruses in cells throughout the body.These could be molecules in search of diseases: when activated under proper conditions, they could cause a variety of diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, systemic lupus erythematosus, Parkinson’s disease, and perhaps cancer.(55)
Unfortunately, this is just the sort of warning that few people are ready, willing, or able to hear, least of all the American Cancer Society or the American Academy of Pediatrics. All of us still want to believe in the “miracle,” as Dubos calls it, regardless of the evidence:
Faith in the magical power of drugs often blunts the critical senses, and comes close at times to a mass hysteria, involving scientists and laymen alike. Men want miracles as much today as in the past. If they do not join one of the newer cults, they satisfy this need by worshiping at the altar of modern science. This faith in the magical power of drugs is not new. It helped to give medicine the authority of a priesthood, and to recreate the glamour of ancient mysteries.(56)
The idea of eradicating measles or polio has come to seem attractive to us, simply because the power of medicl science makes it seem technically possible: we worship every victory of technology over Nature, just as the bullfight celebrates the triumph of human intelligence over the brute beast. That is why we do not begrudge the drug companies their enormous profits, and gladly volunteer our own bodies and those of our children for their latest experiments. Vaccination is essentially a religious sacrament of our own participation in the miracle, a veritable auto-da-fé in the name of civilization itself.
Nobody in his right mind would seriously entertain the idea that if we could somehow eliminate, one by one, measles and polio and all the known diseases of mankind, we would be any the healthier for it, or that other quite possibly even more serious diseases would not arise and quickly take their place. Still less would a rational being suppose that the illnesses he or she suffered from were “entities” somehow separable from the patients who suffer them, and that with the appropriate chemical or surgical sacrament such a removal can literally be carried out. Yet these are precisely the miracles we are taught to believe in, and the idolatries to which we aspire, forgetting the older and simpler truths that the liability to disease is deeply rooted in our biological nature, and that the phenomena of illness are the expression of our own life energy, trying to overcome whatever it is trying to overcome, trying, in short, to heal itself.
The myth that we can find purely technical solutions to all human ailments seems attractive at first, because it bypasses the problem of healing, which is a genuine miracle in the sense that it can always fail to occur. We are all authentically at risk of illness and death at every moment: no amount of technology can change that. Yet the quixotic mission of technomedicine is precisely to change that: to stand at all times in the front line against disease, to attack and destroy it whenever and wherever it shows itself.
That is why, with all due respect, I cannot have faith in the miracles or accept the sacraments of Merck, Sharp, and Dohme and the Centers for Disease Control. I prefer to stay with the miracle of life itself, which has given us illness and disease, to be sure, but also the arts of medicine and healing, through which we can acknowledge and experience our pain and vulnerability, and sometimes, with the grace of God and the help of our friends and neighbors, an awareness of health and well-being that knows no boundaries. That is my religion; and while I would willingly share it, I would not force it on anyone.
NOTES.
1. Mortimer, E., “Pertussis Immunization,” Hospital Practice, October 1980, p. 103.
2. Quoted in Mortimer, op. cit., p. 105.
3. Dubos, R., Mirage of Health, Harper, 1959, p. 73.
4. Ibid., pp. 74-75.
5. Stewart, G., “Vaccination Against Whooping Cough: Efficiency vs. Risks,” Lancet 1977, p. 234.
6. Medical Tribune, January 10, 1979, p. 1.
7. Cherry, J., “The New Epidemiology of Measles and Rubella,” Hospital Practice, July 1980, pp. 52-54.
8. Unpublished data from the New Mexico Health Department (private communication).
9. Lawless, M., et al., “Rubella Susceptibility in Sixth-Graders,” Pediatrics 65:1086, June 1980.
10. Cherry, op. cit., p. 49.
11. Infectious Diseases, January 1982, p. 21.
12. Cherry, op. cit., p. 52.
13. Family Practice News, July 15, 1980, p. 1.
14. Ferrante, J., “Atypical Symptoms? It Could Still Be Measles,” Modern Medicine, September 30, 1980, p. 76.
15. Cherry, op. cit., p. 53.
16. Phillips, C., “Measles,” in Vaughan, V., et al., Eds., Nelson’s Textbook of Pediatrics, 11th Ed., Saunders, 1979, p. 857.
17. Davis, B., et al., Microbiology, 2nd Ed., Harper, 1973, p. 1346.
18. Ibid., p. 1346.
19. Ibid., p. 1342.
20. Ibid., p. 1418.
21. Hayflick, L., “Slow Viruses,” Executive Health Report, February 1981, p. 4.
22. Ibid., pp. 1-4.
23. Davis, op. cit., pp. 1418-1449.
24. Burnet, M., The Integrity of the Body, Atheneum, 1966, p. 68.
25. Talal, “Auto-Immunity,” in Fudenberg, H., et al., Basic and Clinical Immunology, 3rd Ed., Lange, 1980, p. 22.
26. Hayflick, op. cit., p. 4.
27. McNeill, W., Plagues and Peoples, Anchor, 1976, p. 184.
28. Burnet, M., and White, D., The Natural History of Infectious Disease, Cambridge, 1972, p. 16.
29. Ibid., pp. 90, 121, and passim.
30. Steigman, A., “Slow Virus Infections,” in Vaughan, op. cit., p. 937.
31. Phillips, op. cit., p. 860.
32. Infectious Diseases, April 1979, p. 26.
33. Phillips, “Mumps,” in Vaughan, op. cit., p. 891. 34. Hayden, G., et al., “Mumps and Mumps Vaccine in the U. S.,” Continuing Education, September 1979, p. 97.
35. Phillips, “Mumps,” op. cit., p. 892.
36. Phillips, “Rubella,” in Vaughan, op. cit., p. 863.
37. Ibid., p. 862.
38. Glasgow, L., and Overall, J., “Congenital Rubella Syndrome,” in Vaughan, op. cit., p. 483.
39. Phillips, “Rubella,” op. cit., p. 865.
40. Cited in Mendelsohn, R., “The Truth About Immunizations,” The People’s Doctor, April 1978, p. 1.
41. Stewart, op. cit., p. 234.
42. Mortimer, op. cit., p. 111. 43. Feigin, R., “Pertussis,” in Vaughan, op. cit., p. 769.
44. Ibid.
45. Barness, L., “Breast Feeding,” in Vaughan, op. cit., p. 191.
46. Burnet and White, op. cit., p. 91ff.
47. Davis, op. cit., p. 1290ff.
48. Ibid., p. 1280.
49. Burnet and White, op. cit., p. 95.
50. Fulginiti, V., “Problems of Poliovirus Immunization,” Hospital Practice, August 1980, pp. 61-62.
51. Burnet and White, op. cit., p. 95.
52. Burnet, op. cit., p. 128.
53. Mendelsohn, op. cit., p. 3.
54. Quoted in Wehrle, P., “Vaccines, Risks, and Compensations,” Infectious Diseases, February 1982, p. 16.
55. Quoted in Mendelsohn, op. cit., p. 1.
56. Dubos, op. cit., p. 157
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30th September 2012 at 7:26 am
Stucky says:
“But the 33,000 per year saved by vaccine wins the day.” —— llpoh
Major bullshit stat of the day! It’s like Obama claiming … “millions of jobs saved”!
You don’t know how many are saved. Neither do you know the number of people killed or injured as a result of vaccines.
The “saved” numbers no doubt come from vaccine manufacturers or their paid stooges, the AMA. Vaccine manufacturers are behind pretty much everything we have been told about the safety of vaccines.
“Government doesn’t fund clinical studies of vaccines. Industry does.”
———— Dr. Samuel Katz, developer of the measles vaccine
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30th September 2012 at 7:32 am
flash says:
SSS,
This is what it’s come to….?
It’s a sad day in AmeriKa when men would rather discuss the pros and cons of of vaccination than the real danger of penis envy.
The rotten toothed,sallow complected , foul breathed brits have engaged US in two world war due to megalomania induced by chronic penis envy.
Are we to risk another?
We should bomb Britain now to cull any notion the mealy mouthed Brits might harbor on starting another war.
tsk…tsk…tsk…
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30th September 2012 at 7:40 am
Stucky says:
“Indie – the only ones commenting are the vocal minority of anti-vaccine nutjobs.” — llpoh
Idiotic statement. There are millions of folks in this country against rampant vaccination. You rely too much on hyperbole to make a point.
I haven’t done this in a while;
Llpoh Thumbs Up ——— 110
Llpoh Thumbs Down —– 137
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30th September 2012 at 7:43 am
flash says:
Due to school/military immunizations , I’ve had more than my share of vaccinations and strange health issues as well.
If I had it to do over, I would forgo all vaccinations at nay cost.
Doctors speak out about H1N1 VACCINE DANGERS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1K74Tnrrok
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30th September 2012 at 7:44 am
Llpoh says:
Stuck – horseshit. Deaths by the tens of thousands without vaccine. Do not be an idiot.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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30th September 2012 at 7:45 am
flash says:
Controversial HPV Vaccine Causing One Death Per Month: FDA Report
by LifeSiteNews.com
Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:15 EST
Comments (0)
By Peter J. Smith
WASHINGTON, D.C., July 3, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) – One death per month is the average loss of life associated with the cervical cancer vaccine Gardasil according to an FDA report obtained by a government watchdog agency.
Merck, the makers of Gardasil, are poised to make profits in the billions from the vaccine, which protects against some cancer-causing forms of the sexually transmitted human papilloma virus (HPV), but the pharmaceutical giant has come under heavy criticism for fast-tracking the drug onto the market without adequate testing in order to beat out its rivals.
Judicial Watch, a public interest group that campaigns against government corruption, uncovered documents through the Freedom of Information Act that show the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) received reports of 10 deaths associated with Gardasil since September 2007, and 140 “serious” reports of adverse reactions, including 27 “life threatening” cases, 10 spontaneous abortions, and 6 cases of the debilitating Guillain-Barre Syndrome since January 2008.
Judicial Watch also found 8,864 Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) records associated with Gardasil, more than double the 3,461 events that had been reported with the HPV vaccine in Fall 2007. Many experienced outbreaks of genital warts from the HPV vaccine.
The watchdog group says the number of deaths associated with the vaccine is at least 18 and possibly as many as 20.
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30th September 2012 at 7:50 am
Stucky says:
“Llpoh is correct. Education is NOT a right. A right is what the government CANNOT do to you, such as exercising your freedom of speech. That is your RIGHT.” ——— SSS
But the government CAN and DOES take away the right to free speech, and the “right” to assemble peacefully. There is NOTHING the government cannot do to you ….. the President can now even authorize to kill American citizens without a trial!! (Aren’t you keeping up with the news?)
RIGHTS come from our creator. They cannot be taken away.
PRIVILEGES come from government. What the government gives, they can take away.
The whole purpose of government as set forth in the Declaration of Independence is that governments are formed to “protect and secure” our rights—– NOT “grant” them.
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30th September 2012 at 7:53 am
flash says:
Stucky says: RIGHTS come from our creator.
There you go again, dragging religion a kicking and screaming into a debate based on science…..cue the militant atheists in 1…2…3…
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30th September 2012 at 7:56 am
flash says:
the science concludes MDES
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30th September 2012 at 8:01 am
Stucky says:
“Again, I repeat, education is not a right.” ——- llpoh
Let me ask you this, llpoh; “When you take money from me for one of your products — do I have a “right” to receive the product, or is it a “privilege” to receive it?” Of course, it is a “right”.
Likewise, when the government forcibly takes money from me — thousands upon thousands of dollars in taxes — then I have a “right” to compensation for which the taxes are confiscated.
We pay $12,000 a year just in property taxes — about 50% of which goes to education …. regardless of whether or not we have children, and regardless of whether or not we send them to public schools if we do have children. So don’t give me any of that “privilege” bullshit.
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30th September 2012 at 8:03 am
flash says:
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30th September 2012 at 8:03 am
Zarathustra says:
Fuck this thread. Get your asses over to the one that discusses Ron Paul’s nepotism and the criminal enterprise otherwise known as Israel.
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30th September 2012 at 8:17 am
flash says:
Big Pharma ain’t interested in your health, just your moolah.
http://lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi242.html
What May Become the World’s First Proven Cancer Preventive (and Something Bigger) Ignored by Big Pharma
by Bill Sardi
Recently by Bill Sardi: Your Money: Slip Sliding Away
It is not surprising to learn that Big Pharma has shown no interest in what may become the world’s first proven cancer prevention pill. If big profits aren’t promised, pharmaceutical companies predictably pass on such a development.
The pill is a relatively safe FDA-approved generic drug, prescribed millions of times to help control diabetes, and it costs maybe 10-cents a day. But what is surprising is that public health authorities appear to be remiss in announcing this breakthrough. They are the agency in society commissioned to address important public health issues such as this.
Data has been accumulating for 5 years now showing metformin (Glucophage), an anti-diabetic drug, dramatically reduces the risk for cancer and prolongs life among patients who are battling cancer.
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30th September 2012 at 8:57 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
@Stuck – I read your article (yes, the whole thing) and quite enjoyed it.
The take home that I have from this is that we do need to review vaccinations, however I am not yet sold that we should do away with them as this author gently puts forward.
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30th September 2012 at 9:10 am
Stucky says:
Hey … you vaccine lovers … yea, YOU!
How ’bout this new article today? —-> “Drug Industry Pays out $10 Billion in Fraud Settlements in less than 2 Years”
http://www.allgov.com/news/where-is-the-money-going/drug-industry-pays-out-10-billion-in-fraud-settlements-in-less-than-2-years-121002?news=845833
.
Yeah, keep trusting those fuckwads when you stick their SHIT in your veins. They only have your best interests at heart …. for the common good.
They are CRIMMINALS … but unlike the poor niggah who stole a six-pack of beer, these scum have billions of dollars to buy their “get out of jail, free” card. Yeah, baby, keep sticking their shit in your veins. Sucker!!!
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30th September 2012 at 12:32 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
“The most common violations brought against drug manufacturers have been overcharging government health insurance programs and illegal marketing of medications.”
Clearly vaccines did it.
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30th September 2012 at 12:38 pm
ThePessimisticChemist says:
Damn link.
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30th September 2012 at 12:38 pm
crazyivan says:
Colma and tpc,
I was not being brutal to that bear.I can’t tell how disheartening it to find pictures and low quality movies on the goddamn internet (fuck you colma) of me fuciking a bear before my first cup of coffee
Your,both of your’s, use of cellphone captures technique illistrate your slacker efforts.
Had either one of you come closer than 50 feet with some lights and a soundman, all would have realized that bear was dead.
No harm done , fuckers.
So much for investigative journalism.
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30th September 2012 at 2:26 pm
Colma Rising says:
Globalism=Unfettered Migration of Labor=Cost effective methods over quarantine=A list of vaccines as “long as your arm”.
A small price to pay. Now if only they could put some vitamultin in that shit….
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30th September 2012 at 3:29 pm
crazyivan says:
Colma,
You are one truly fucked up individual..
And then you chastise me for brightening the day of an american born antelope with a wif of vodka.
You certaily do not know just what it takes to hang on to the bolting flanks of an orgasaming speed goat with your boots dragging in the dirt.
You talk of what you don’t know..
You sir overate your intellect.
.
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30th September 2012 at 4:11 pm
Llpoh says:
Stuck – if you give me money I have the legal obligation to provide the goods but it is not your “right”. Perfect example is if you pay me, and I go broke before delivery, you cannot come claim the goods. You do not have title of the goods until delivery, but have certain legal entitlements with respect to them.
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30th September 2012 at 5:20 pm
Stucky says:
llpoh
OK. Good answer.
But this thread is dead. And you lost handily. Got your ass kicked, even. Worst ass kicking I have seen here in quite a while. I’m surprised you didn’t take a few days off to lick your wounds.
I heard on CNN today about a new virus called H-69-UYA. It’s a virus that enters the body up your ass (hence, UYA), and attaches itself to the brains of dumbfuks who like vaccinations. Symptoms are uncontrollable rage and frothing at the mouth whenever someone disagrees with you. You better hurry and get vaccinated before they run out.
Peace be unto you.
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30th September 2012 at 5:34 pm
Llpoh says:
I delivered a monumental beat-down. SSS even said so, sorta.
Here are the facts re measles, thatis largely eradicated in the US. Death rate for measles in the US is 3 per thousand. It is brutally contagious. If everyone stopped getting measles vaccinated, eventually everyone could be assumed would contract it in their lifetimes. This would lead to a death of around 12,000 per year from measles, huge medical expenses, problems associated with pregnant women, etc. And that is from just one disease. Polio has a death rate in children of 5 to ten percent for paralitic polio. Etc etc.
The US without vaccinations would be much different than it is, and not for the better.
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30th September 2012 at 6:55 pm