Hold on, folks, but Twinkies may be going away? Oh God, no, not Twinkies. The culprit? What has killed about everything in this country? from overpaid government employees to the auto workers, yes, unions. Hostess filed for bankruptcy, and the unions still haven’t relented. Pretty soon there won’t be anything but unions, government, and taxes. I have to admit, I loved Twinkies when I was a kid (now they taste like plastic). When Twinkies go away, what is there left of value in America? Oh, the shame.
Hostess Shuts 3 Plants
By Rachel Feintzeig | The Wall Street Journal
Three days of labor strikes have prompted Hostess Brands Inc. to close three plants and mull a possible liquidation of the beleaguered baking company.
Hostess, which has been dueling with various labor groups for the past 10 months as it attempts to claw its way out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, is seeing picket lines at about two-thirds of its plants, according to Chief Executive Gregory Rayburn.
The strikes were organized by the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers International Union, whose 5,680 Hostess workers account for about 30% of the company’s total work force.
In September, the union rejected a Hostess proposal that called for deep labor concessions, but a judge later allowed the baking company to force the union to adopt the new collective-bargaining agreement.
The union said on Friday that it was kicking off the strike to protest the “horrendous contract” that Hostess imposed, which features wage cuts and limits workers’ participation in pension plans.
Mr. Rayburn said Monday afternoon that Hostess would be shutting down plants in Seattle, St. Louis and Cincinnati as a result of the work stoppage. The plants produce everything from cakes to Nature’s Pride and Wonder breads, and they employ 627 workers, all of whom will lose their jobs. “We don’t have the manpower to maintain them during the strike,” he said.
He also said that the company didn’t have much more wiggle room in terms of shutting down additional plants and that the next step would probably be a complete shutdown.
Still, the three plant closings don’t necessarily mean that the availability of Twinkies and Wonder Bread will cease just yet in some areas of the country. “In most cases, we’ll be able to ship products into those territories from other plants,” Mr. Rayburn said Monday morning, adding that members of the company’s largest union, the Teamsters, would get the baked goods where they need to go.
But it isn’t clear whether the Teamsters will continue to cooperate. Over the weekend, many Teamsters crossed the picket lines, according to both Mr. Rayburn and Ken Hall, the Teamsters secretary-treasurer. But Mr. Hall said Monday that his union is still trying to gather more details about the strike and to sort through the contract provisions that specify what actions various Teamster locals can take when another Hostess labor group goes on strike.
Mr. Hall said he is sure his members will honor the picket lines if it is determined that such a move is sanctioned under their contracts. The Teamsters represent about 7,500 of Hostess’s 18,300 employees.
Hostess filed for Chapter 11 protection in January, saying it couldn’t survive without labor cost cutting. It has long warned that a strike would spell the end of the baking company.
“This is not a situation that…we can withstand for any significant amount of time,” Mr. Rayburn said.
If the strike continues, he added, the company will have to forgo the reorganization proposal that was slated for an initial round of approval later this month and instead initiate wind-down proceedings.
“I think the timeline for us to have to make that determination is very short,” he said. “We’re talking days, not weeks.”
Frank Hurt, the bakers union president, said he’s well aware of the possibility of a liquidation, but he stressed that “people will only take so much” when it comes to cuts to their wages and benefits. On Monday, he took aim at the labor offer that 92% of voting Hostess union workers rejected in September. “It’s just way, way over the top,” he said in an interview. “It was an untenable proposal for our people.”
The union’s website indicates that workers at Hostess facilities from Knoxville, Tenn., to Sacramento, Calif., are honoring picket lines. Mr. Hurt said that the union aimed to eventually start picket lines at a plant in New Jersey, but other than that it doesn’t expect further expansion of the strike.
Mr. Rayburn said that the bakers union hasn’t made any specific demands of Hostess and that the two parties aren’t engaged in negotiations. He added that the company has “zero” tolerance for revamping the terms of its new labor deal, which the Teamsters narrowly voted to accept in September.
A few other, smaller unions threw their support behind the deal as well, while some smaller unions followed the bakers union and resisted.
Eddie says:
When queried about when Twinkies would no longer be available in stores, a company spokesperson confided that current warehouse inventories should manage to meet retail demand for about 40 years, and that shelf life was not an issue.
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13th November 2012 at 7:38 pm
LLPOH says:
Unios can only take so much???? But they can drive their employees onto unemployment. What the fuck is wrong with these idiots? It seriously is beyond belief.
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13th November 2012 at 8:12 pm
Darwin says:
They were warned; rolled the dice and lost. Let it be a lesson.
Wait, but where’s the administration to step in and broker a union-friendly resolution like the autos?
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13th November 2012 at 8:14 pm
TC says:
Isn’t it funny how all these MSM articles about labor issues will waste hundreds of words on blather and yet NEVER mention the details of the contract over which the union is striking? Guess it would be tough to build sympathy for the unions if people saw how generously they were treated.
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13th November 2012 at 8:24 pm
underfire says:
What does this country need more than just about anything else? Private sector jobs. But the country is hell bent on making it as difficult as possible for the private employer. Hell with it, maybe China will make our Twinkies for us.
It’s as plain as day, but this country can’t seem to correctly put two and two together.
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13th November 2012 at 8:28 pm
Kill Bill says:
The avg pay for the Hostess worker is 15 bucks an hour. Hostess wants to cut that pay by 8%
Meanwhile Hostess upped its executives salarys from 35% to 80% [pre bankruptcy.
Hostess also went bankrupt in 2004 and closed 21 factories.
Thankfully they made it and continue to sell its sugary shit across the country.
Thank God Twinkies didnt go the way of the Trilobyte.
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13th November 2012 at 8:29 pm
flash says:
Is there any shit American’s won’t put in there twinkie hole?
OK…never mind
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 8:44 pm
flash says:
gag a maggot… who on this board has actually eaten this stuff? …answer anon of course.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 8:46 pm
flash says:
I went over to AWD,s favorite pizzeria last week and I canttell you it was to die for…
My ass cheeks have never been so plump and sexy .
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13th November 2012 at 8:52 pm
flash says:
oh , yeah , I had to shop AWD out’da’ pic…sorry youse guys.
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13th November 2012 at 8:53 pm
flash says:
@##%#$@$%$^$%&^*&^%#$#Q!@%#@$$%^$%^^*(*%^$%^#$$!@#!@#$%^^*&$%%$@#$@#and so it was.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 8:54 pm
prtrb'd says:
So this is how we get the junk food out of our diet and our health back! Odd way to go about it, but hey, whatever works!
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13th November 2012 at 8:56 pm
KaD says:
I wonder how the union wages will compare to their wages once the unemployment runs out? Morons.
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13th November 2012 at 9:08 pm
ecliptix543 says:
So lemme get this straight… These fuckers will strike against the manufacturer of Twinkies over, what was it.. an 8% pay cut, but the largest union in the country (the citizens) won’t strike against the IRS in order to realign government spending with that uncomfortable thing called REALITY? Fabulous.
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13th November 2012 at 9:13 pm
Hollow man says:
Mrs. obama would not allow the President to bail out the company unles they included a veggie cream in place of the white surgery stuff.
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13th November 2012 at 9:32 pm
Hope@ZeroKelvin says:
Oh man o’man.
What will the Texas State Fair be without a deep fried Twinkie?
Just one more argument for secession, heh.
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13th November 2012 at 9:41 pm
Chicago999444 says:
Yes, the unions surely did their part in killing this company. Any job is better than no job, and $14 or so an hour beats unemployment.
But they did not play the leading role in the destruction.
Something another business person planted in my head as I contemplated forming my own business stuck with me. He said: When you own your business, everything that happens with it is your fault. Don’t blame your employees, or the government, or your customers, or anyone. Somehow, you failed to adapt.
Note that the executives hiked their own pay substantially even though the company was in free-fall, sales having dropped substantially as the market for sugary snacks eroded over the past few decades. While the unions surely could have made a few more concessions, especially in the matter of pensions, the company’s leadership could have adapted to their marketplace and restrained their own greed.
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13th November 2012 at 10:10 pm
underfire says:
This country is screwed every which way to Sunday. There are so many life changing issues converging onto this country, and none of it good.
Unless of course you’re one of the 1%ers, with an island paid for and a few hundred millions stashed. Or, an accredited member of the FSA that doesn’t care about anything out past about next weekend. Atrophy of one of histories great superpowers, somewhat historic times.
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13th November 2012 at 10:45 pm
llpoh says:
Chicago999444 said he was told “When you own your business, everything that happens with it is your fault. Don’t blame your employees, or the government, or your customers, or anyone. Somehow, you failed to adapt. ”
That USED to be true. But the political fucks believed that rule was immutable and that business could and would adapt to anything. Business is very adaptable, if left alone.
But the fucking fact is that governments believe that the business camel can carry any amount of red-tape and tax weight, any amount of EPA and NLRB bullshit, any amount of union interference, any amount of anything.
The camel can carry no fucking more – it cannot adapt and become an elephant. It is a camel, and it relies on the flow of capital, a reasonable and well educated workforce (which is almost gone – see the Hostess union for a prime example), the ability to make, and FUCKING RETAIN, some profit, and to spend its energy on making money and not on appeasing the government paper pushers. The problem is the camel is no longer allowed to be a camel, but is expected to be an elephant. And so it has collapsed munder the weight of its load.
Chicago – it was once true, what you were told, but no more. And yes, the world is full of corrupt and incompetent managers. Absolutely full of them. But even the greatest of managers can no longer adapt sufficiently to succeed in the curent world. The burden is simply too great.
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13th November 2012 at 11:13 pm
llpoh says:
Think of business like a horserace. Some countries have low cost of business – their horses carry skinny jockies. The US, and much of the western world, have high cost of business. Their horses carry jockies equivalent to one of the fat fucks AWD is always talking about.
Just who is going to win the race – the horse, no matter how slow he naturally is, carrying a skinny jockey, or the lightning fast horse carrying the 400 pound jockey? The skinny jockey on the slow horse will win every fucking time. And it is winning.
The US has a potentially very fast horse. The fucking jockey weighs a ton, and the horse has gone lame in the first 100 yards.
Fucking bastards.
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13th November 2012 at 11:18 pm
a cruel accountant says:
AWD must be so conflicted right now.
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13th November 2012 at 11:19 pm
a cruel accountant says:
You can’t find a twinky or ho ho where I live right now.
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13th November 2012 at 11:20 pm
ecliptix543 says:
This may be the first time in over two years that I can mostly agree with one of llpoh’s bizness rants. Perhaps it’s because he admitted that back in the dark ages, he actually managed to not blame everything on pissant employees and stupid people…. May wonders never cease!
PS – How are those pocket knives working out, llpoh? It’s been about a year now, so have any of them broken or had other issues? I’m still tickled shitless with my roughly one year old Benchmade 581. They made it with a new alloy – M390, supposedly one of those lab-created powdered super steels. It’s a damn impressive tool steel but just a touch brittle. My old M2HS blade on the 710 was (is, it’s still a viciously good blade after 8 years of awful abuse) more forgiving, but has proven to be somewhat subject to corrosion if not really looked after.
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13th November 2012 at 12:14 am
Llpoh says:
E – great knives. The Benchmade minigryptilian and the spiderco delica are my everyday carries. I have a big spyderco para for when I need a bigger knife. However, my favorite is the Zero Tolerance. It is a beefy mofo, indestructible, and is really a beast. Too big for every day, but would be pick of the litter for survival.
I am constantly surprising people who say ” damn, could use a knife just now” by flicking one open. . I always have one on me, and almost always they are shaving sharp, and use it every day.
Get the ZT when you get a chance. Great knife.
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13th November 2012 at 1:09 am
ecliptix543 says:
I’ll keep an eye out for them.
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13th November 2012 at 1:23 am
Ron says:
The dude in the picture almost made me sick just looking at him.Everyone knows cupcakes taste much better.
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13th November 2012 at 2:32 am
Stan says:
The American camel staggers under a heavy load- and it gets heavier each day.
How long before the back breaks? Which Twinkie will be the last straw?
Btw. It’s been a long time since I ate a Twinkie. When I turned 40 I had to give up sweets
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13th November 2012 at 3:49 am
John A says:
No more god-awful, processed-food twinkies to purchase and thousands of not-so-bright union members vote no deal and are out of work? This is rich! So far, I don’t see a problem.
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13th November 2012 at 6:11 am
Kill Bill says:
Thats because the fast horse is carrying an obese CEO with 2.25 million in cash that just cant realize that it is the employee that makes his salary possible,
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 9:59 am
SSS says:
Fuck Twinkies. I like pretzels as a snack. And that fatfuck video you posted was disgusting, AWD. Par for the course.
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13th November 2012 at 10:06 am
Kill Bill says:
The Hostess CEO claimed his salary going from 750k a year to 2.25 million was to make their wages more in line with ‘industry standards’
So, why should a CEO, that didnt increase sales, that didnt do much of anything, get a raise just because the guy over at Lil Debbie is making more than him?
If a Hostess employee is making less as inflation grows, cant buy sugary shit, and Lil Debbie follows suit, and so does Post Toasties, and Capn Crunch and Super Sugar Crisp and the rest do the same.
Who can afford to buy their crap, what happens to the sugary baked shit industry?
It dies and so does the CEOs salary. And so does the poor slobs job of washing out donut molds.
Clearly we need to buy more glucose, sucrose, HFCS and tryglycerides filled crap food to save the economy, aight?
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13th November 2012 at 10:09 am
Kill Bill says:
I have a feeling AWDs dreams, every night, are full of moobs and obese women in thongs wallowingon the beach while he sips margaritas under the palm trees in his hammock and pops viagra,
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13th November 2012 at 10:12 am
AWD says:
What AWD dreams of at night
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13th November 2012 at 11:04 am
DaveL says:
Two of my favorite foods back when I could taste. Frozen Twinkies and Peers that were left out for a few months.
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13th November 2012 at 3:04 pm
randy says:
Yep, its the union’s fault…
Its the unions fault that 14 or 15 bucks an hour won’t pay the rent, cable, hydro, gas, car insurance, health insurance, phone bill, or fill the gas tank in the car…
Yet management has free health care provided by the company, giant salaries compared to workers, some get free cars, and some get free gas…some even have free planes, and free gas for those planes….
yep, its not management that runs businesses into the ground, its the workers…
what freakin bald faced stupidity…
Hostess is an international company, they’ve figured out how to get people to buy and eat sugary shit thats not good for you, but they can’t pay their workers a living wage….
And you jackasses side with the company…
pathetic…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 1:53 am
TeresaE says:
@Randy, I side with America, and my kids’ futures.
The reality is that paying above skill wages costs others jobs as the company must make up for it by screwing their vendors, whom then off shore.
Unions were great back when guys were dying and working seven days a week. We now have THOUSANDS of federal, state and local laws protecting the unions.
The union brass are all ONE PERCENTERS, yet somehow have the rank and file convinced they are “suffering” right along with their factory-floor brethren.
Back in the ’90s I knew quite a few UAW & Big 3 contract negotiators (schmoozing was part of my job, I sold to both sides, so got to kiss both sides asses) and when the point was made that to be able to gift the union what they wanted the Big 3 would have to buy components from China/Asia.
Quoted the UAW guy, “we’ll run every last non-union job out of America to save the last union one.”
They are fucking succeeding. Keep believing that floor-sweepers and guys that plug stuff in are somehow magically worth 10times what the rest of the world pays.
Then go spend your check on Asian produced foods, cars, medicines, and clothing.
Puh-lease. Wake up, we have priced ourselves out of the world market, yet we continue to send our purchasing dollars overseas.
Insanity at its finest.
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13th November 2012 at 2:26 am
TeresaE says:
Hope@ZeroKelvin says:
Oh man o’man.
What will the Texas State Fair be without a deep fried Twinkie?
Just one more argument for secession, heh.
I wouldn’t worry too much, I’m sure China would hop right into the void and start flooding the San Diego ports with new, improved, further traveled Twinkies.
And dumbfuck SNAP recipients would still buy them. Just like they use my fucking tax dollars to buy Asian-produced Wallyworld-branded foods. Pisses me the hell off.
Anyway, China ain’t stupid enough to leave Twinkie money on the table. They’ll be filling People of Walmart’s pieholes toot sweet.
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13th November 2012 at 2:32 am
randy says:
And thats where your wrong Teresa…
Americans have always been priced out of the world markets…Thats because of the american dream….
owing a house, sending kids to colledge, driving a new car, having clean water to drink, having infrastructure, NOT having slums surrounding cities (india, bangladesh are good examples)…
NOT having people die of starvation in the streets…
I find it infuriating that you denegrate a group of workers demanding that management equitably share the profits made from the work they do…yes…even the floor sweeper…
Because even the worst hitter on a baseball team, the fatest lineman, the highschool dropout basketball player all belong to unions and all demand that the owners share the wealth…
Our garbage in my citty was outsourced to eliminate union workers…workers that made 28 bucks an hour with health care benefits and pensions were traded in for temporary workers with no helath care benefits, no pensions and 14 bucks an hour…and no job security…
Now, on paper the city is spending less money this year, but as always happens, the company who lowballed the bid will raise its price over the next few years and we will be paying the same, if not more, to this company….But at least the workers won’t be getting that money….
What wrong with you people….? unions raise not only wages, but security and living standards…
The guy making 14 bucks an hour, without the security of a union will not be able to qualify for a mortgage…he won’t be able to buy a brand new car, he won’t be going to home depot to buy a new washer and dryer, and because he has no helath insurance, will show up at the emergency room when he get sick, and those with health insurance will pay increased premiums to cover him…
Without jobs that pay a living wage in America, the entire economy shrinks, and cost us all, from the perspective of living standards…
As I said…we’ve always been priced out of the world markets, because one cannot survive in the US making 1 buck or 2 an hour, like workers in china or mexico make….forget about being priced out of the indian, pakistan, myanmar, or bangledesh sweatshops where workers make pennies…
It always, in these convewrsations falls on “its the unions”, or ‘the union fat cats”….
I guarantee that for every union fatcat, there is a hundred rich management white guys, that nobody seems to point at….You know the ones…the ones that study union demands and then sign contracts, or decide to close down and make their money in china….
Patriots don’t cut and run….patriots don’t leve anyone behind….but it seems that the rich cut and run, and leave their workers behind in a heartbeat, to make another million….
You take a swip at workers, and union fat cats, who are locked in, but say nothing of the rich bastards who sign these agreements then complain about them….
Wake up, their feeding you alpo….made in china, made by unionized chinese workers who were given our jobs….
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 3:08 am
John A says:
Randy,
Apparently, the only “workers” that matter to you are the ones with union cards. Only union members can build cars, efficiently pick up garbage off the streets of Americans cities and towns? Nobody else can get the job done? So, you don’t have great employee benefits, healthcare, guaranteed pensions job security any longer? Neither do millions of other Americans out of work, who want to work.
Does your pussy hurt, Randy? Want job security? Need to make more money to support your family? Don’t demand it, go earn it! Start your own business and make your fortune in the competitive, free market. Join the real world and go succeed where you have to compete with others for market share and wealth. A place where unions cards don’t mean shit. It won’t be easy but it is out there for the taking if you want it bad enough. There are some of us at this chat board who own or have built successful businesses. We know what it takes. What say you, Randy? America needs jobs. Will you step up to the plate and provide a few of them with a new company?
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13th November 2012 at 5:07 am
Administrator says:
Randy
Tell the truth. You couldn’t sleep because you were too worked up from watching gay porn. Do you get a tingle up your leg when you watch Chris Matthews tell people that Hurricane Sandy was good for Obama?
Regale us with your thoughts on how Obama’s $800 billion of pork spending saved us from a Great Depression. I love that story.
I love that you read TBP all the time. That explains the dip in the average IQ score I see in our demographics.
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13th November 2012 at 7:27 am
randy says:
1st John…
Aren’t you business owners the jackasses complaining about too much regulation?/ Complaining about legislation that should force business owners to provide helath care coverage to their workers? Complaining about how said health care coverage covers contraception?
You are too dumb to read between the lines of my diatribes….My support for unionized workers is the support that workers be treated fair…givin an equitable share of the pie, given pensions, a living wage, and pensions…
All workers deserve these benefits, not just unionized workers…Its just not often that workers (as opposed to management) get these benefits without unionization…
So because I complain that “i” don’t have benefits, or a pension My pussy hurts…You freakin americans complain about universal health care, and compare it to socialism, or even better yet, communism…
Does your head hurt? Its killing me…
2nd Admin…
If the democrat was losing but it was close, and all of a sudden the supreme (with a majority of conservative appointed members) court gave that close election to a republican, you conservatives would call that good, and you did…
How about you regale me with Bushes 160 billion dollar giveaway in his lame duck session…How about you regale me with two wars started by bBush that have cost american, let me check…Almost 1.4 TRILLION…
How about you regale me on how the vast majority of that 1.4 trillion went to weapons manufacturers, private militia groups (forget about how those groups committed many murfers without the rule of law protecting the citizens killed in their own countries)….
And how little of that money went to the “heros” on the ground…While their families at home collected free shit, and lost their homes, and now, after a decade of war, are coming home with medical issues, and no jobs….
Obama’s 800 billion was already in the books, before he came into office…You may not understand that the money Obama spent was due to actions of the previous Bush administration, just like the continuation of the military posture in Iraq and Afghanistan were due to acts of the previous administration…
And the reason, I believe that you don’t understand pure facts is that one: you are an Ideologue without thought, and you spend you time thinking up witty remarks that include gay porn, to shoot down arguments you don’t agree with…
I thought you were gone for a while…On your gay cruise….
See, not only is what I said not funny, its childish, and has no relavence…
Strike two….
I don’t get MSNBC so I don’t watch it, but a jackass saying that a major hurricane was good for a politician, said something idiotic, and should appologize for making such a rud and insensitive remark…
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13th November 2012 at 11:10 am
randy says:
And by the way, I’m not an obama appologist…I believe he is a puppet, just like the rest of them…controlled by a group of multi national corporations…Using rhetoric that makes it SEEM like there is a difference between him and his opponent…
Republicans though, are plainly stupid…They sent up a very flawed person in Romney, just like they sent up a very flawed person in Mcain..(Sarah Palin, That was the judgement call of your chosen candadite then…).
Its not the person that wins the vote, its the delivery of the rhetoric, and policies of the party that win the vote…Sometimes affected by an October surprise…
In this case, a storm, that made Obama look better than Bush did during Katrina….In that sense, the coverage of the storm, by the media, made Obama look good…
In smaller terms of which some of you americans understand – The storm was good for Obama…
Plus his delivery of even shitty rhetoric was better than his challenger…
Next!
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13th November 2012 at 11:19 am
underfire says:
Randy
You haven’t been paying attention, the “Buy American” campaign was a resounding flop. Americans buy cheap, foreign made goods made with cut rate wages. In the global economy the only thing that matters is who can produce for the cheapest, and a huge component of cost is wages and benefits.
Try as hard as you want, but you can’t make two plus two equal five. The proof is in the huge trade deficits we run.
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13th November 2012 at 12:11 pm
randy says:
The ‘buy american’ campaign fails, for the same reason the US education system fails…pure propaganda, and the denegration of critical thinking…
How can a campaign like ‘buy american’ succeed when the financial elite, utilizing the whore of MSM, spend all their time shooting down unions, fair trade, universal health care and education, while promoting free market capitalism that allows the oligarcic american corporations to ship jobs that pay a living wage in america, to place on the planet that allow unbridaled environmental degredation, work environments that are toxic and unsafe, and wages that even a mississipian couldn’t survive on squatting in a forclosed upon house….
The media have trained americans that everything is on sale every day…that price is paramount…that quanitity is more important than quality….
That getting the best price is more important than communities supporting those people in the community who take risks and employ their neighbours….
Americans riducule other leaders for spouting propaganda and controling the public mind, yet it is americans that are doing that to not only their own citizens but everyone else on the planet…
Wake the fuck up….
PS…after having my head cut off, being treated like shit, and being called names on this site, my writing style has become more cynical, sarcastic, and hard….
Don’t take it personally…
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13th November 2012 at 1:55 pm
underfire says:
” the best price is more important than communities supporting those people in the community who take risks and employ their neighbours….” Like it or not, right or wrong, the American people have spoken, and this is the reality that business must face in this country.
I’m a small farmer and rancher. It does absolutely no good for me to rant about Mexico or some other country with cheaper production costs undercutting my price for cattle. If I am to remain in business what I have to focus my energy on is being competitive. It’s the same for other businesses.
Globalization and the ascendency of other countries may have been inevitable. It takes a big stretch to think that Americans could maintain our lifestyle, complete with consumption of 25% of the worlds resources, while the other 94% of the worlds population set idly by content with their daily ration of beans and rice.
But again, like it or not, globalization has and is occurring, there’s hundreds of millions out there that are highly motivated to improve their lives, and the world economy, like water will seek it’s own level.
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13th November 2012 at 3:50 pm
ecliptix543 says:
John A – “Start your own business and make your fortune in the competitive, free market.”
What free market? No such thing exists around here. Start a small business? Now? Doing what, exactly? What’s left to do out there that hasn’t already been engulfed by either a multinational corporate monstrosity, or taxed and licensed and insured and regulated into vapors? When wages aren’t sufficient in a two-income household to even meet basic needs, how the fuck is any random peasant supposed to just ‘start a business and make a fortune’? Seems like I’ve heard this spiel before… at 3am on an infomercial. Blow me.
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13th November 2012 at 4:03 pm
John A says:
Nobody’s talking to you, ecliptix543! What do you want from me?
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13th November 2012 at 4:55 pm
Llpoh says:
Randy the moron- employees deserve this, employees deserve that. No one deserves a damn thing but freedom and the subsequent opportunities that entails. People are only worth economically what they can produce in a global and competitive market. Deserve has nothing to do with it.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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13th November 2012 at 5:16 pm
Kepi says:
Wait, what will I pay with for chubby kids to rake my lawn? MY EMPIRE IS CRUMBLING!
Seriously, though, I think the real culprit behind the death of hostess was the fact that nobody buys them. I never see people snacking on them at work, and despite epic levels of obesity in the US, research is finding that lack of sleep, not diet or exercise, is the major behavioral difference. When was the last time you fed your kids a twinkie? Most of the moms I know would, at least, never admit to doing that, and judging by what I see around their kitchens, the days of a snack consisting of fudge rounds, Ho-Ho’s, twinkie’s, oatmeal pies, etc. Are dead. It’s all fruit and home made trailmix now. The worst I see are homemade cookies.
It’s supply and demand and truckers and hobos aren’t a big enough market to prop Hostess up.
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13th November 2012 at 6:21 pm
flash says:
AWD, what flash dreams of at night.
Whores are a dime a dozen and mostly not worth the time…and I speak from a position of immense success ……….and regret.
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13th November 2012 at 6:27 pm
AWD says:
flash like’s French chicks, They don’t shave their pits.
(The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World; French: La Liberté éclairant le monde) is a colossal neoclassical sculpture on Liberty Island in New York Harbor, designed by Frédéric Bartholdi and dedicated on October 28, 1886. The statue, a gift to the United States from the people of France, is of a robed female figure representing Libertas, the Roman goddess of freedom, who bears a torch and a tabula ansata (a tablet evoking the law) upon which is inscribed the date of the American Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776. A broken chain lies at her feet)
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13th November 2012 at 6:34 pm
randy says:
Underfire, you make a compelling, if general, argument…
While it may be a stretch to think that Americans could keep their lifestyles in a global economic environment, I would like to point out that: it is americans leading the world to a global economy…
It is ameican companies that have pioneered offshoring jobs to lower wage, and less regulated markets…They haven’t done this to increase the share of the pie for everyone in their ‘family’ of employees, only to enrich themselves…
America did fine after WWII in creating a more just society (except for that pesky depression created by the bankers), and america becaome rich pulling emerging economies into the twentieth century…
But somewhere along the line America went off the tracks, and catered to only the one percenters…allowing corporate money to influence political economic policies that disadvantaged and disenfranchised workers, and even small businesses, by concentrating capital and consolidating large parts of the economy to ‘Branding” as opposed to opening up the economy to small business, and allowing some corporate profit to be shared amoung employees who would then save excess wages to be utilized as capital for the financial class…
That lesson has been lost… The Ford lesson I eluded to in an earlier post…
Allowing big business to swallow up everything, and management to pay the lowest wages possible, even if that means moving jobs and capital to unstable regions like china, mexico, and pakistan (etc.), has moved money which would be made in america and likely spent here, to those other countries, where those wages are spent there….
Its a very simple phenomena that no one talks about, but is so obvious….
If our economy is built on consumerism, then consumers need money….fire employees, pay them minimum wages, leave them to survive on government entitlements only shrinks the economic activity of the whole country…
America is supposed to be better than that….America is supposed to be execptional…
But you guys fall for the class warfare…
You never attack someone you want to be like (rich, white) and always attack those who you don’t want to be like (poor, brown)
The evidence comes from LLpooh..
“.Randy the moron- employees deserve this, employees deserve that. No one deserves a damn thing but freedom and the subsequent opportunities that entails. People are only worth economically what they can produce in a global and competitive market. Deserve has nothing to do with it.”
Employees are the ones that enable those with capital to leverage that capital and hopefully make a profit…Without employes, one is simply self employed…
Those who help you win, deserve to share in those wins…
The fact that you believe that people are only deserving of what they can produce proves you are truly an ignoramus…
What does the queen of england produce that she deserves what she has or gets?
What has G.W. Bush produced that granted him such riches….
How about the king of Syria, or the Pope…How ’bout Jamie dimond, or them jack asses at Golman Saks?
The idea of freedom, and the spirit of free markets revolve around all things being equal…That everyone has equal opportunity….That there is no discrimination, or illegal activity….That polititians enqact policy that doesn’t favour one group over another…
I find it incredibly revealing that you beleive that you have the judgement (audacity is a better word) to assume that you can equate everyones worth directly to what they produce…
The american soldier produces death…If an american soldier is very efficient and produces many deaths does that mean he deserves many deaths…? (sarcasm)
You’re argument are beyond stupid, and almost entirely flacid…
read a book, stop watching fox…
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13th November 2012 at 6:50 pm
AKAnon says:
Randy-Are you still here? Time to move on, douchebag.
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13th November 2012 at 7:07 pm
Kepi says:
Underfire is right, at least insofar as maintaining competition as a small scale farmer/rancher. Ford was, at one point, big enough to call the shots. They did so poorly. A small rancher never had that market presence. He’s got a product and he’s gotta get it to market at competative rate, or he’s gotta find something else to do. Those are his options.
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13th November 2012 at 7:10 pm
Llpoh says:
Randy – you really need to get a clue. Your examples of other wrongs do not make it right for anyone to think they deserve anything. The whole idea of deserving is nothing more than an expectation of transfer of wealth from those capable of producing value to those not. If an employee is stupid and lazy, are they still deserving of all the crap you put forward earlier? If you think they are, then you are a socialist intent on preying on those that are more industrious and smart. If you think they are not, then your whole statement is fallacious, as clearly then you acknowledge people can be paid no more than they are worth in an open market.
AKA is right – if you are simple here to stir shit, please move on. Your comments re me, my training, my education, my experience are ignorant. You have not been around long enough. People that post here are educated, and thoughtful by and large. So far you have shown to be nothing but a left wing agitator. Grow up. Take a look at the world – the whole idea of employees deserving anything is failing. No one deserves anything but freedom and for the playing field to be level. After that it is sink or swim.
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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13th November 2012 at 3:46 am
AWD says:
The destruction from unions just keeps on coming. Bankrupting twinkies. WTF?
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13th November 2012 at 1:31 pm
AWD says:
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13th November 2012 at 1:32 pm
AWD says:
Members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers Union announced today that the Twinkie, held hostage by the Union for the last several months, has been executed.
“Taking a page from our Misloom brothers’ playbook, we beheaded the Twinkie at 6:00 am this morning,” stated union boss Joey”Dough Man” Antonelli. He elaborated that “Hostess refused to give in to our demands, and that’s the end of the Twinkie!”
Representatives from Hostess said that the matter had been out of their hands for quite some time, especially since newly reelected President B. Hussein Obama spent time on the picket line last week encouraging the striking union members. They noted that the Twinkie had always been a positive, upbeat kind of confection, and said that the world will miss him.
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13th November 2012 at 1:44 pm
Hope@ZeroKelvin says:
Those evil, greedy, soulless owners, closing their business because they want to increase their insane profit margins rather than give the Workers their “fair share”.
Don’t they care about the Workers? Those business owners should be put up against the wall and shot. The Union should be able to take over both their personal and business assets and distribute it to the Workers, yeah, that would some social justice, heh.
It doesn’t matter if a business makes any profit, profit doesn’t mean anything to a business after all. Profit is just the blood sucked out of the labor of the Workers. What is important is that workers are employed, taxes are paid and regulations are followed to the letter.
Besides, Comrade Michelle has decreed that Twinkies, Ho-Ho’s, and Wonder Bread are to be on the Banned List of foods anyway.
Forward Comrades!
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13th November 2012 at 2:14 pm
Kill Bill says:
I didnt eat their crap anyway.
Good riddance.
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13th November 2012 at 2:20 pm
Kill Bill says:
St. Louis mayor Francis Slay said in an interview on Tuesday that he was given notice earlier this year about the closing in his city.
“I was told months ago they were planning on closing the site in St. Louis,” he said. “And there was no indication at that time that it had anything to do with the strike the workers were waging.”
Huh. Maybe people werent eating their hydrogenated sugary shit anyway.
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13th November 2012 at 2:23 pm
Kill Bill says:
But but but AWD this is a good thing….just think how the obesity rates will decline. Think of all that tooth decay that wont happen. Think about how many less people will be rushed to the emergency room in diabetic comas. Just think about all the school kids who wont be able to by Hostess crap in the school vending machines!!
/snark
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13th November 2012 at 2:26 pm
AWD says:
KB
“God damn twinkie eating little bastards”
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13th November 2012 at 2:27 pm
AWD says:
KB doesn’t eat Twinkies ’cause they cause his prostate to swell up like a watermelon…
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13th November 2012 at 2:29 pm
Kill Bill says:
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13th November 2012 at 2:33 pm
Kill Bill says:
AWD checking a prostate…
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13th November 2012 at 2:34 pm
Kill Bill says:
AWD playing soccer on his time off
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13th November 2012 at 2:37 pm
Kill Bill says:
AWD doing a self examination with a wedgie.
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13th November 2012 at 2:39 pm
Kill Bill says:
Cutting 8% from a 15 dollar an hour wage, on average, would have saved Hostess?
I call BS.
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13th November 2012 at 2:44 pm
randy says:
No one deserves anything but freedom and for the playing field to be level. After that it is sink or swim.
==================
Really….No man is an island….No one can become righ without the labour of someone else…
I believed that America and Americans held the ideal of American exceptionaism, and the rule of law….
Not the rule of the jungle….
Ive been here for a long time…but some of the conversation here is so predictable, i dont usually waste my time commenting…Now though, I have some free time on my hands…
Whith regard to Hostess…you fail to inform that these workers have already given concessions, to get Hostess out of bankruptcy…And that the company says they need more….
There comes a point in any mans life that they say no more…that i would rather lose my job, then do the same work for much less, no benefits, and no pension…
Jobs that move down the wealth creating ladder to near minimum wage, no pension, no health care, are not worth saving…Because they train company managers that they can continue to beat down workers to the lowest common denominator, working for slave wages, like in China, Pakistan, or Yemen…
Even better are the reports that the company was already considering closing that plant….Why not go after the wages and benefits of those workersÉ
If they agree, we can still close the plant and go after other workers, somewhere else…
The idea that the union is the one that bankrupted the company is total utter nonsense…Management controls the purse strings…Not only did management sign on to the current contract, that resulted inwage and benefit cuts, they sign on to the contrat before the company entered bankruptcy…
Meaning , for you slow witted types….MANAGEMENT HAD ALL OF THE NUMBERS, BEFORE THEY SIGNED ANYTHING!!!
Did I say the loud enough! Its always the case that management has all the numbers, and is at an advantage in negotiaions, while the union leadership is always at a disadvantage, because they only get the numbers – management wants them to see…
you people trust people that are rich and successful, but they are rich and successful because they keep secrets from you….They give you the idea you can be like them, yet feed you shitty educations, destry critical thinkin in grade schools, and feed you the propaganda that it takes team work to win….
Yet you spout off that only the strong survive…
Which is it…If only the strong survive why not nip the problem in the bud and just kill anyone that is unproductive, and collecting entitelment…
Imagine all the people producing efficiently…
No entitlements…
The massive increase in steel, bullet and gun production….
100% employment…
Lower taxes….
Wow, why hasnèt anybody ever thought of killing all the useless eaters….
Oh ya, Hitler did….
YA VOLT!!!
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13th November 2012 at 2:48 pm
Kill Bill says:
Tangen to sugary crap
By Agence France-Presse
Thursday, November 15, 2012 20:56 EST
The United States saw a dramatic rise in the number of adults suffering from diabetes between 1995 and 2010, according to official statistics released Thursday.
The prevalence of the disease increased by at least 50 percent in 42 of the country’s 50 states. In 18 of those, the rate at least doubled, according to a study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
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13th November 2012 at 3:15 pm
AWD says:
KB is cranky today.
Too bad he didn’t eat twinkies, and have boxes laying around. They’re now worth a fortune:
and Via Mashable:
Here’s what’s currently up for sale and bid on eBay:
For a price of $89.95, three boxes of SEALED Box of Hostess Chocodiles 3×10 Chocolate Twinkies
For a price of $99.99, four boxes of SEALED Box of Hostess Chocodiles 4×10 Chocolate Twinkies
For a starting bid of $500, one Box of Twinkies; Unopened
For a starting bid of $10, and a price of $595, a box of 10, opened and half-eaten
For a starting bid of $5,000, a single Twinkie
And finally, for a starting bid of $10,000 … a box of Twinkies (one of the last boxes that will be available, its seller helpfully notes, before the Zombie Apocalypse)
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13th November 2012 at 3:18 pm
IndenturedServant says:
I have not eaten Twinkies or their other products they make in years but it it is rather said to see these iconic products destroyed by the Union pukes that made them.
Actually, it warms the cockle-burrs in my heart to know that it was unions and union employees who destroyed their own jobs…..forever! I consider it a bonus that the Teamsters, who did compromise, got fucked as well by their other union brothers. Fucking awesome! What perfect, poetic justice! I look forward to more of the same as this collapse rolls onward. Now these libtard, unthinking, idiot, union fucks will switch over to three years of unemployment until that runs out and then they will transition to SSI disability, food stamps and a host of other “entitlement” programs until they too eventually run out. I can only hope that their stupidity collapses this motherfucker a little bit sooner.
I_S
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13th November 2012 at 3:19 pm
IndenturedServant says:
Randy said:
“Imagine all the people producing efficiently…”
Never gonna happen with out sound money that cannot be debased. Constant, never ending theft of the value of our money will eventually destroy even the most efficient business model. Ad in all the taxes, fees, penalties and other bullshit that govt heaps onto business owners and there will soon be no room for unions let alone businesses.
I_S
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13th November 2012 at 3:29 pm
fwiw imho says:
Randy, I just finished reading Atlas Shrugged for the umteenth time. You’re in the book. You’re the reason for John Galt.
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13th November 2012 at 3:36 pm
AWD says:
Another white man’s creation and delicacy destroyed. Forward! Socialism rulez!
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13th November 2012 at 3:43 pm
AWD says:
This is a cause for celebration in Bronco Bama’s “America”.
The Working Man’s cause has been championed and the Unions have won.
From Fox:
IRVING, Texas – Say goodbye to your Twinkies.
North Texas-based Hostess Brands, Inc. has decided to go out of business and liquidate its assets after failing to win back striking workers. The company posted a statement on a website set up specifically for people following the strike.
“We deeply regret the necessity of today’s decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike,” said Gregory F. Rayburn, chief executive officer.
“Hostess Brands will move promptly to lay off most of its 18,500-member workforce and focus on selling its assets to the highest bidders.”
You see how that works.
Meanwhile, the Unions, who I may remind, do what they do in the interests of the Working Man, are starting in on the nation’s largest employer (other than Bronco Bama) Wal-Mart:
WAL-MART workers plan ‘Black Friday’ walkout…
With any luck, now, the Unions can force Wal-Mart out of business too.
Starting to sound a lot like Argentina. Here though the government can force you to keep your company running since shutting it down could land you in prison.
People here say the government doesn’t understand how business works. I am sure they do. But they also understand how to REDISTRIBUTE wealth. Unions are the best way to do that. Unions have the power to bankrupt a company (and they do), but here the government has the power to force the company to remain open to every last dime that the evil rich guy had gets distributed!
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13th November 2012 at 3:45 pm
Kill Bill says:
Hostess was doomed since 2004
Bankruptcy (2004)
On September 22, 2004, Interstate Bakeries [now Hostess Brands] filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The company also named a new chief executive, Tony Alvarez. Interstate Bakery’s stock, which had been at one time $34/share, fell to $2.05/share as they declared bankruptcy. At the time it was the longest bankruptcy in U.S. history. During bankruptcy, Interstate fought a 2007 bid from Mexican baked goods giant Grupo Bimbo and Ron Burkle of the Yucaipa Companies.[13]
With the leadership of Craig Jung, the company emerged from bankruptcy as a private company on February 3, 2009.[14] The plan included a 50 percent equity stake by Ripplewood Holdings and lines/loans by General Electric Capital and GE Capital Markets, Silver Point Finance and Monarch Master Funding. Interstate’s union workers made contract concessions in exchange for equity.[15]
During the 2004–2009 bankruptcy period, Interstate closed nine of its 54 bakeries and more than 300 outlet stores. Interstate’s work force declined from 32,000 to 22,000 employees.
~~~~~
See, Hostess couldnt pay its 700 million dollar loan!! And who borrowed that money? The union workers? No. Management!
Dumbasses.
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13th November 2012 at 4:02 pm
Kill Bill says:
No, I am laughing at the dummehs that think union workers killed Hostess.
Even if they lowered wages some measly 8% the morons in management still would have defaulted on their 700 million dollar loan.
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13th November 2012 at 4:04 pm
Kill Bill says:
The company [Hostess] said it employs 19,000 people and carries more than $860 million in debt. The company said it would continue to operate with $75 million debtor-in-possession financing from Monarch Alternative Capital, Silver Point Capital and other investors
You cant borrow your way out of debt.
Stoopits.
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13th November 2012 at 4:06 pm
Kill Bill says:
Nearly a billion in debt and the manglement blames unions for their demise.
What a bunch of maroons.
Hostess climbed up a financial cliff and before throwing itself off the crumbling ledge decided they were too cowardly to jump so they asked some 7500 union workers to take a pay cut and save their idiot asses.
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13th November 2012 at 4:12 pm
Kill Bill says:
Too bad he didn’t eat twinkies, and have boxes laying around. They’re now worth a fortune: -AWD
I went to Walmart a bit ago and bought Twiinkies at the regular price.
Im gonna make a video of Twinkie addicts coming to buy my Twinkies as I stomp them into the dirt and make them cry,
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13th November 2012 at 4:18 pm
Kill Bill says:
I got a box of Zingers [Devilsfood filled cakes with chocolate icing] it was 4.29 cents. The best buy date is Nov 25 [guess the older stock is already hitting the shelves]
There are 12 of these crappy things in a carton.
17 grams of sugar in one Zingers cake. Thats 210 grams of sugar in a box.
130 calories per cake. 40 calories are from fat. 22 grams of carbs in each cake. Which turns to sugar when your system breaks it down.
Not a bad profit for a bunch of shit that includes hydrogenated vegetable oil, beef fat,, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup and sugar.
No wonder people arent buying this crap. Its expensive, tastes like a dog shit, and has zero nutritional value.
But I will sell you my box of Zingers, unopened. Starting bid is 250 Bernanke Bucks!
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13th November 2012 at 4:53 pm
Thinker says:
Do you know, there’s actually a “petition” on the same White House site that had all the secession petitions to “nationalize the Twinkie industry.” Can you imagine, there are people who want the government to buy Hostess and continue operating the company (probably at government-employee benefits levels). Yeah, like that will work.
More than anything else, it reminds me of Germany taking over companies. Not that it’s actually serious.
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13th November 2012 at 5:06 pm
Kill Bill says:
Maybe we can get vulture capitalist Rmoney to get a zero percent loan from Bernanke, sell off the companies assets, get the Pension Guaranty Corporation [a govt corporation] send the Interstate {Hostess Brands] corporation to China and do some accounting gimmickry so people could buy their god awful beloved Twinkies.
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13th November 2012 at 5:11 pm
IndenturedServant says:
Kill Bill said:
“See, Hostess couldnt pay its 700 million dollar loan!! And who borrowed that money? The union workers? No. Management!
Dumbasses.”
Ownership and management do have to shoulder the majority of the blame here for the loss of the company but the union guys are still to blame for the balance and deserve what they get.
Unions are all about gimme, gimme, gimme! Times are boomin’! We deserve more! Times are flat! We deserve more! Times are totally fucked up and getting worse but still, we deserve more! I’d be thrilled to take a pay cut if the realistic alternative is to lose my job completely! The union surely knew of the company’s financial problems and union members themselves are certainly aware that the cost of EVERYTHING is going up. Stop viewing the hand that feeds you as the fucking enemy! Oh that’s right! It’s the Union hand that feeds you……not the company you work for! The company is expendable! For fuck sake……the company TELLS YOU THEY WILL CLOSE IF YOU STRIKE, your Teamster brothers strike a deal they can live with but you decide to deliver the death blow! Revel in it dumb asses! You asked for it! You earned it! You deserve it!
Sorry, but I was not born with the union gene that causes ones head to reside permanently within ones rectum.
I_S
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13th November 2012 at 9:08 pm