HERO OF WAR « The Burning Platform

35 Comments

SSS says:

“A hero of war, is that what they seek, just medals and scars ….. ?”
—-quote from the song’s lyrics

This asshole doesn’t know jackshit about war or American soldiers. I know war, and I know American soldiers. Those lyrics are offensive.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 7

13th November 2012 at 8:49 pm
flash says:

SSS,

There is a great chasm between right and wrong and those who understand the former whilst fighting for the latter.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 1

13th November 2012 at 9:02 pm
a cruel accountant says:

Off topic. The Wisconsin 9 are standing up against Obama Care.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/nine-lawmakers-back-charging-federal-officials-who-implement-obamacare-here-n47kl10-179180251.html

Like or Dislike: 2 0

13th November 2012 at 11:51 pm
a cruel accountant says:

War is offensive.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 0

13th November 2012 at 12:13 am
Zarathustra says:

I just have to say this. One of my old girlfriends dad was a hero of war. He was a 1st Lieutenant in Edson’s Raiders, in the early days of WW2. He defended bloody ridge against the Japanese attack on Henderson field, and participated in many Guadalcanal battles when it was their best against our best, and neither side had an obvious advantage. He was the kind of guy to strap a b afandana around his head and sneak up to engage in hand to hand combat. He was bayonneted twice. He won a buttload of medals and should have received the medal of honor but for some bureaucratic snafus. Eventually he was promoted to Lt. Col. and received a military sinecure for his WW2 service record.

Later he was stationed in Germany when my gf was a child of 10 or so. He took her as cover when he went to bang his german mistress while she was left playing in the living room, then had to lie to her mother afterward about where they went.

Being a boomer, and one whose father was also a WW2 veteran, I have many other stories but I won’t editorialize them. You can come to your own conclusions.

Like or Dislike: 4 0

13th November 2012 at 4:47 am
SSS says:

“SSS,

There is a great chasm between right and wrong and those who understand the former whilst fighting for the latter.”
—-flash

Most young men and women who join the U.S. armed forces, completely voluntarily I might add, do not do so out of a philosophical basis of FIRST determining what’s right or wrong. They do it for a wide variety of personal reasons, such as learning a marketable skill, earning a steady paycheck while deciding what their life’s trajectory may be, or enjoying the post-service benefits of furthering their education with Uncle Sam’s financial support.

Yes, some join out of a strong sense of wanting to serve their country in uniform, and you will find quite a few of these people come from families with a long history of uniformed service. This is not unusual, particularly in the South. But what is not at play here is a determination of “right” and “wrong,” whatever that may be, before they join.

As for those who decide to make uniformed service a career, you will find that the driving motivation has many facets, which are again mostly personal. Enjoying what you do is number one. Better pay for doing your job well, aka promotions to a higher rank. Challenging work. Being part of a team. All of these and more outweigh considerations of right and wrong.

These are the observations of someone who served 24 years in the U.S. Air Force. You may not agree, but that’s why I found the song’s lyrics to be offensive and inaccurate.

Like or Dislike: 3 3

13th November 2012 at 9:56 am
flash says:

SSS -But what is not at play here is a determination of “right” and “wrong,” whatever that may be, before they join.

Due to bandwidth restrictions I did not listen to the song, but regardless what you and I both wrote is basically the same message except I said it with less words.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

13th November 2012 at 10:10 am
Stucky says:

“They do it for a wide variety of personal reasons, such as learning a marketable skill, earning a steady paycheck while deciding what their life’s trajectory may be, or enjoying the post-service benefits of furthering their education with Uncle Sam’s financial support.” ———- SSS

.
The willingness to kill others …………. for an education, a marketable skill, or a paycheck.

hmmmmm, maybe that’s what that anti-war song is all about? Eh?
.
.
PS. I am not talking about folks in WWII, or wars prior. I am talking about our current wars of aggression which have NOTHING to do with “serving” or “protecting” America.

Hot debate. What do you think? 6 2

13th November 2012 at 10:27 am
SSS says:

“What you and I both wrote is basically the same message except I said it with less words.”
—-flash @ SSS

That would be a first for you, old chap.

Like or Dislike: 2 1

13th November 2012 at 10:27 am
SSS says:

“The willingness to kill others …………. for an education, a marketable skill, or a paycheck. hmmmmm, maybe that’s what that anti-war song is all about? Eh?”
—-Stucky

Not everyone in the armed forces has an assault rifle or throttles to a jet fighter in their hands, Stucky. There are many non-combat related jobs. The song made a blanket, misleading statement about members of the armed forces who just seek “medals and scars.”

That said, I have no problem with your “wars of aggression” stance, which are the result of gross political leadership, not the members of the armed forces.

Like or Dislike: 2 2

13th November 2012 at 10:37 am
Stucky says:

The lyrics …

—————-

He said, Son,
Have you see the world?
Well, what would you say
If I said that you could?
Just carry this gun and you’ll even get paid.
I said, That sounds pretty good.

Black leather boots
Spit-shined so bright
They cut off my hair but it looked alright
We marched and we sang
We all became friends
As we learned how to fight

A hero of war
Yeah that’s what I’ll be
And when I come home
They’ll be damn proud of me
I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust

I kicked in the door
I yelled my commands
The children, they cried
But I got my man
We took him away
A bag over his face
From his family and his friends

They took off his clothes
They pissed in his hands
I told them to stop
But then I joined in
We beat him with guns
And batons not just once
But again and again

A hero of war
Yeah that’s what I’ll be
And when I come home
They’ll be damn proud of me
I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust

She walked through bullets and haze
I asked her to stop
I begged her to stay
But she pressed on
So I lifted my gun
And I fired away

The shells jumped through the smoke
And into the sand
That the blood now had soaked
She collapsed with a flag in her hand
A flag white as snow

A hero of war
Is that what the see
Just medals and scars
So damn proud of me
And I brought home that flag
Now it gathers dust
But it’s a flag that I love
It’s the only flag I trust

He said, Son, have you seen the world? Well what would you say, if I said that you could?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 7 2

13th November 2012 at 10:49 am
Stucky says:

“Not everyone in the armed forces has an assault rifle or throttles to a jet fighter in their hands, Stucky. There are many non-combat related jobs.” ———– SSS

One person fires a bullet …….. another person makes that bullet.

Is there that much of a difference?

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 3

13th November 2012 at 10:51 am
Administrator says:

Those lyrics are not offensive to soldiers in any way. SSS is full of shit. Those lyrics tell the truth about our war machine and the fuckers who recruit young men to kill for their oil.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 8 2

13th November 2012 at 11:04 am
flash says:

WOW….gave me gooseflesh.

Thanks for the lyrics, Stuck.

BTW SSS, posted this vid for you last week….fergit’ thread ..did you see it?

here it is again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYY2FQHFwE

Like or Dislike: 1 0

13th November 2012 at 11:11 am
Stucky says:

flash

I missed the video. Now that I clicked on it ….. what does an Okie from Muskogee have to do with me?

And, yeah, the lyrics and song are great.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

13th November 2012 at 4:27 pm
Stucky says:

Is This Child Dead Enough for You?

by CHRIS FLOYD

To all those now hailing the re-election of Barack Obama as a triumph of decent, humane, liberal values over the oozing-postule perfidy of the Republicans, a simple question:

Is this child dead enough for you?

This little boy was named Naeemullah. He was in his house — maybe playing, maybe sleeping, maybe having a meal — when an American drone missile was fired into the residential area where he lived and blew up the house next door.

As we all know, these drone missiles are, like the president who wields them, super-smart, a triumph of technology and technocratic expertise. We know, for the president and his aides have repeatedly told us, that these weapons — launched only after careful consultation of the just-war strictures of St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas — strike nothing but their intended targets and kill no one but “bad guys.” Indeed, the president’s top aides have testified under oath that not a single innocent person has been among the thousands of Pakistani civilians — that is, civilians of a sovereign nation that is not at war with the United States — who have been killed by the drone missile campaign of the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.

Yet somehow, by some miracle, the missile that roared into the residential area where Naeemullah lived did not confine itself neatly to the house it struck. Somehow, inexplicably, the hunk of metal and wire and computer processors failed — in this one instance — to look into the souls of all the people in the village and ascertain, by magic, which ones were “bad guys” and then kill only them. Somehow — perhaps the missile had been infected with Romney cooties? — this supercharged hunk of high explosives simply, well, exploded with tremendous destructive power when it struck the residential area, blowing the neighborhood to smithereens.

As Wired reports, shrapnel and debris went flying through the walls of Naeemullah’s house and ripped through his small body. When the attack was over — when the buzzing drone sent with Augustinian wisdom by the Peace Laureate was no longer lurking over the village, shadowing the lives of every defenseless inhabitant with the terrorist threat of imminent death, Naeemullah was taken to the hospital in a nearby town.

This is where the picture of above was taken by Noor Behram, a resident of North Waziristan who has been chronicling the effects of the Peace Laureate’s drone war. When the picture was taken, Naeemullah was dying. He died an hour later.

He died.

Is he dead enough for you?

Dead enough not to disturb your victory dance in any way? Dead enough not to trouble the inauguration parties yet to come? Dead enough not to diminish, even a little bit, your exultant glee at the fact that this great man, a figure of integrity, decency, honor and compassion, will be able to continue his noble leadership of the best nation in the history of the world?

Do you have children? Do they sit your house playing happily? Do they sleep sweetly scrunched up in their warm beds at night? Do they chatter and prattle like funny little birds as you eat with them at the family table? Do you love them? Do you treasure them? Do you consider them fully-fledged human beings, beloved souls of infinite worth?

How would you feel if you saw them ripped to shreds by flying shrapnel, in your own house? How would you feel as you rushed them to the hospital, praying every step of the way that another missile won’t hurl down on you from the sky? Your child was innocent, you had done nothing, were simply living your life in your own house — and someone thousands of miles away, in a country you had never seen, had no dealings with, had never harmed in any way, pushed a button and sent chunks of burning metal into your child’s body. How would you feel as you watched him die, watched all your hopes and dreams for him, all the hours and days and years you would have to love him, fade away into oblivion, lost forever?

What would you think about the one who did this to your child? Would you say: “What a noble man of integrity and decency! I’m sure he is acting for the best.”

Would you say: “Well, this is a bit unfortunate, but it’s perfectly understandable. The Chinese government (or Iran or al Qaeda or North Korea or Russia, etc. etc.) believed there was someone next door to me who might possibly at some point in time pose some kind of threat in some unspecified way to their people or their political agenda — or maybe it was just that my next-door neighbor behaved in a certain arbitrarily chosen way that indicated to people watching him on a computer screen thousands of miles away that he might possibly be the sort of person who might conceivably at some point in time pose some kind of unspecified threat to the Chinese (Iranians/Russians, etc.), even though they had no earthly idea who my neighbour is or what he does or believes or intends. I think the person in charge of such a program is a good, wise, decent man that any person would be proud to support. Why, I think I’ll ask him to come speak at my little boy’s funeral!”

Is that what you would say if shrapnel from a missile blew into your comfortable house and killed your own beloved little boy? You would not only accept, understand, forgive, shrug it off, move on — you would actively support the person who did it, you would cheer his personal triumphs and sneer at all those who questioned his moral worthiness and good intentions? Is that really what you would do?

Well, that is what you are doing when you shrug off the murder of little Naeemullah. You are saying he is not worth as much as your child. You are saying he is not a fully-fledged human being, a beloved soul of infinite worth. You are saying that you support his death, you are happy about it, and you want to see many more like it. You are saying it doesn’t matter if this child — or a hundred like him, or a thousand like him, or, as in the Iraqi sanctions of the old liberal lion, Bill Clinton, five hundred thousand children like Naeemullah — are killed in your name, by leaders you cheer and support. You are saying that the only thing that matters is that someone from your side is in charge of killing these children. This is the reality of “lesser evilism.”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 5 0

13th November 2012 at 4:31 pm
SSS says:

“Those lyrics are not offensive to soldiers in any way. SSS is full of shit.”
—-Admin

So, the following lyrics about a woman with a white flag being told to stop, refusing to do so, and getting gunned down are not offensive to soldiers in any way. Ever read the stories about suicide bombers in Iraq and Afghanistan, Admin? Of course not. They might cloud your distorted version of “the truth.”

“She walked through bullets and haze
I asked her to stop
I begged her to stay
But she pressed on
So I lifted my gun
And I fired away

The shells jumped through the smoke
And into the sand
That the blood now had soaked
She collapsed with a flag in her hand
A flag white as snow”

That song is a damnable indictment of every man and woman who ever served in the armed forces. I picked just a few words, so I’m glad Stucky posted all the lyrics so everyone who can think critically can see what trash it is.

So, in conclusion …… Admin, Stucky, and flash can just kiss my rosy red ass.

(And I did not post “Okie from Muskogee,” flash. Someone doppelganged me.)

Hot debate. What do you think? 2 6

13th November 2012 at 6:54 pm
Kepi says:

Just from personal experience, most of the enlisted troops I’ve known have generally enjoyed anti-war songs because they generally address the issue of the troops themselves as people who’ve been dehumanized by circumstance with little choice in what they do. It’s usually the officers, especially the officers behind desks, who resent the insinuation that there’s better things for a young man to do than go half way around the world and prop up a systematic shooting and explosion machine, and that our willingness to let loose this machine so trivially is a great tragedy.

Like or Dislike: 1 1

13th November 2012 at 7:11 pm
flash says:

Super Sleuth and Stuck , apologies to you both .
The sentence should have read as such , ” BTW SSS, I posted this vid for you last week….fergit’ thread ..did you see it?”

My bad.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

13th November 2012 at 7:30 pm
flash says:

SSS–So, in conclusion …… Admin, Stucky, and flash can just kiss my rosy red ass.

Was spanking involved? …sounds painful ,regardless.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

13th November 2012 at 7:32 pm
Eddie says:

I thought the song sucked myself. Offensive lyrics and deliberately crafted to make a cheap emotional appeal to sell a record. A cheap shot, in other words.

Like or Dislike: 1 5

13th November 2012 at 7:41 pm
Kepi says:

Eddie, have you ever listened to Rise Against beyond this song? I’m asking because they pretty much come from a scene where these kinds of lyrics are par for the course (Bad Religion “Let Them Eat War”, “All Good Soldiers”, “Kerosene”, Boysetsfire “The Force Majuer” or… Well, anything by Boysetsfire, Dead Kennedys “Kill The Poor”, “Holiday in Cambodia”, “Soup is Good Food”, and on and on and on). At it’s most basic, punk rock and related genres are pretty exclusively about how young poor people are at the mercy of politicians and businessmen who want to snuff them out in a variety of different means. So saying this is “shock for the purpose of selling records” pretty well underlies the fact that it’s par for the course, and actually kinda tame considering some of the lyrical rhetoric that’s come out of the genre (I’m thinking along the lines of “Lied to” by Against All Authority or “The Great American Going Out of Business Sale” by Dillinger Four)

Like or Dislike: 2 0

13th November 2012 at 8:08 pm
Eddie says:

You don’t find it ironic that these guys are becoming shockingly rich off the misfortunes of your generation?

I guess if it speaks to you…..it has meaning. To me it’s kind of contrived…I didn’t get the feeling the singer really was singing about anything he had personal knowledge about..rather just some shock value lyrics to appeal to an anti-war audience.

Hey, I’m totally anti-war, myself. Don’t get me wrong.

These days I listen to the Avvett Brothers and Iron and Wine. Punk doesn’t interest me since Joe Strummer died. But I’m getting to be an old fuck, just like the rest of all these old fucks who come here. Look out, it’ll happen to you too, unless you check out early. Much sooner than you think. LOL.

A boomer anti-war song to offend you and make you hate me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17gKw_j6Qq0&feature=related

Like or Dislike: 2 3

13th November 2012 at 8:29 pm
Kepi says:

It would bother me if they were getting rich off doing something they hadn’t been doing since they started. Rise Against came out of the break ups of 2 other bands and they had similar dispositions. I don’t particularly care which bands make money and which don’t. I mean, there are lots of metal bands that make money off singing about dragons and other things that don’t exist.

I don’t mind that they’re making money (good for them) and I don’t presume insincerity just because they’re making money, even if it is a lot.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

13th November 2012 at 9:07 pm
Stucky says:

Eddie

That Arlo Guthrie intro —- laughed my ass off.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

13th November 2012 at 9:57 pm
Stucky says:

One of SSS’s noble heroes about ready to scare the shit out of some goat herder family.

“OPEN UP! I KNOW YOU’RE HIDING NUKES!!!”

Hot debate. What do you think? 6 2

13th November 2012 at 10:01 pm
Administrator says:

Stuck

I’m glad all of our soldiers are noble. Pissing on dead bodies, slaughtering women and children in Afghan villages, soldiers sitting in a comfy room in Washington DC controlling drones and killing innocent people from 30,000 feet, Abu Ghrahib, Guantanamo, etc.

U.S. soldiers haven’t fought in a noble war since 1945.

Hot debate. What do you think? 6 2

13th November 2012 at 10:07 pm
SAH says:

@Admin – of course not all of our soldiers are noble, no group of people ever is. However, I believe most of our Military serving at grunt – mid levels are fairly noble. I have many friends and acquaintances who are active military right now. All of them share a completely naive mindset when they sign up and beyond that fall into some basic categories and motivations:
1. Guys who just wanted job security and benefits to support their young family.
2. Young people who couldn’t afford college and want to use ROTC or GI Bill to try to get a college education.
3. 17-18 year old boys with a sense of adventure who wanted to travel (these guys come from backgrounds where they wouldnt ever be able to afford to travel outside the US otherwise) and who liked the idea of having a physical job where they could exercise lots and play with high tech gadgets with a big group of other adventurous boys.
4. Misguided patriots.
5. Kids from military families who wanted to stay in the culture.

They don’t make the rules of engagement, they don’t declare the wars, many get in and don’t agree with all of their orders, but once they’ve signed up they have to follow them and serve their time. Every group has some bad apples, but I believe that the majority of our boots on the ground are filled by people who thought joining the military was a good and noble decision when they signed up. I think most of them also try to behave in good and noble ways to the best of their personal ability during war.

The shit flows downhill, and the ignoble bastards are our warmongering politicians.

Like or Dislike: 3 3

13th November 2012 at 11:01 pm
Muck About says:

@SAH: You are wise beyond your years and for a hapa haoule, a real jewel. I try to picture you – with your mind – in a grass skirt and utterly fail!

Isn’t it a pity that we, as a nation, continue to honor the absolute stupidity of war and those who die fighting them. For the past 60 years we are not “honoring” anything but idiotic power plays conceived by old white men that were doomed to failure before they got off the ground.

Oh, the young men “did their duty” but what duty? I grant you it is better to fight a war “over there” than “here” (we proved that in the civil war with half a million dead and 3 decades to “recover” and we’re still suffering from that one!)

As far as I’m concerned we should back off with “Honor” bit and ask why the old farts who start these damned wars don’t lead them into battle. Way back in the day, The ruler/Generals led from the front: Lots of Romans did, Napoleon did, the Duke of Wellington did, even old George Patton rode a lead tank and a lead jeep when he turned his whole bloody army around to fight to battle of the Bulge.

Now they sit in Washington, lying and scheming and sending off large numbers of young men to die or come home damaged for what? With Iraq now buying Russia weapons, WTF?? Just like Vietnam, why are we still there in Afgansburg? Korea, I could see a reason. We got got good results from that one except we’re still the damned fuse along the DMZ to keep the nutz jobs up North from being turds about the whole thing. But since then? Big ZERO except riches for the military/industrial business and a whole lot of dead and injured youth of this country.

Sadly, to honor those who served is to honor by proxy those who sent them. Piss on later. They need to lead from the front and we’d have a lot fewer undeclared conflicts. And a lot fewer casualties.

MA

Like or Dislike: 5 2

13th November 2012 at 11:23 pm
SSS says:

Ha!

Eddie, SAH, and Muck join SSS to oppose the misguided Admin, Stucky, and flash. Another classic TBP beatdown..

Like or Dislike: 3 0

13th November 2012 at 6:42 pm
flash says:

I’m anti-war and anti-murder.
I’m all ears if you can explain how having one 19 year old cousin killed in Vietnam and another turned in an instant into a man who could no longer wipe his own ass or take care of his own personal hygiene was beneficial for the well being and security of nation.

You and your association of statist curs have sacrificed the goodwill of Ameicana at the alter of a One World,global government, sovereignty be damned.

How’s that feather fit in your cap ,

Like or Dislike: 1 1

13th November 2012 at 7:22 pm
John A says:

“These are the observations of someone who served 24 years in the U.S. Air Force. You may not agree, but that’s why I found the song’s lyrics to be offensive and inaccurate.”

“I know war, and I know American soldiers”

SSS,

I am a retired Air National Guard MSgt. 23 years. From a previous comment you made, you stated that you were a pilot. Knowing your approximate age, I will assume that you probably flew combat sorties over Vietnam. From one soldier to another, thank you for your service to your country during difficult times.

John A

Like or Dislike: 2 0

13th November 2012 at 7:41 pm
SSS says:

“Knowing your approximate age, I will assume that you probably flew combat sorties over Vietnam.”
—-John A @ SSS

You guessed right, Sarge. I flew 140 missions in Vietnam. And I spent my entire career in support of forces on the ground. My respect for the soldier with an assault rifle in his hand is boundless. And thank YOU for your service. I had a 3 year tour with the Air National Guard as their advisor. It was an eye-opening insight to America’s “Weekend Warriors,” whom I greatly appreciate.

“You and your association of statist curs have sacrificed the goodwill of Ameicana at the alter of a One World,global government, sovereignty be damned. How’s that feather fit in your cap.”
—-flash

If “you” refers to me, flash, you couldn’t be further from the truth on what I believe. I’d revolt against a statist government, and I’d support any effort to destroy the United Nations. I’ve seen since I was a teenager what a danger the UN is to US sovereignty. The UN sucks.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

13th November 2012 at 8:29 pm
Kill Bill says:

1. Guys who just wanted job security and benefits to support their young family.
2. Young people who couldn’t afford college and want to use ROTC or GI Bill to try to get a college education.
3. 17-18 year old boys with a sense of adventure who wanted to travel (these guys come from backgrounds where they wouldnt ever be able to afford to travel outside the US otherwise) and who liked the idea of having a physical job where they could exercise lots and play with high tech gadgets with a big group of other adventurous boys.
4. Misguided patriots.
5. Kids from military families who wanted to stay in the culture. -SAH

In a nutshell, only poor people join the military. Im sure the parents that sent their kids to Westpoint are shocked.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

13th November 2012 at 8:51 pm
Kill Bill says:

I have had many a family member serve in the military, some joined, some were drafted. I did neither but as an aircraft mechanic did work on military aircraft in a contract sense and we made sure the aircraft was fit for service.

So, I am a bit conflicted on the argument flash and SAH make. Neither fit my belief

What I do know is that many a transnationalist like to walk around with an American flag while sending jobs to foreign lands to fatten the bottom line while saying one thing and doing another.

Hypocrisy might well have been the first sin.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

13th November 2012 at 9:01 pm

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