STORMIN NORMAN’S LAST MISSION « The Burning Platform

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sangell says:

There has always been this dichotomy in our military leadership. The political general versus the combat commander. Alexander Haig, Colin Powell and David Petraeus are good examples of the political general. They generally get the top jobs and are the public face of our top military commanders. Then there are the Schwarzkopfs, LeMays and Pattons and these guys command our combat forces.

I used to subscribe to Proceedings, the magazine of the US Naval Institute. Every May, I believe, they came out with an issue that had, year book style, all the O-7′s and above in the Navy and USMC. You could, almost without fail, determine who was a general or admiral in command of combat forces by their official photographs. I used to ask friends to pick the ‘meanest’ looking general or admiral and then read his current assignment. The ‘mean’ looking guys were commanding a Marine amphibious brigade or air wing of surface fleet squadron somewhere and the cream faced guys in dress uniforms were in DC or commanding some procurement office or other administrative group There was even a Admiral in charge of janitors ( he was a black guy) but they gave him a slicker sounding title than Admiral in charge of janitors ( base facilities maintenance or something similiar). It was uncanny but it was true, the face told the job.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 8 2

28th December 2012 at 9:39 am
Oleguy says:

I worked for and knew General Shwarzkopf. A great man and a hero of mine. If we had followed his plan we would have not returned to Iraq. We already had their forces surrounded and defeated.

Many of us in leadership positions loathed Bush for stopping us as we all knew we would return one day to try and finish the job.

Salute General and hopefully I will see you on the high ground!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 12 4

28th December 2012 at 10:55 am
sangell says:

Battlefield commanding general

Dinner Party general

Hot debate. What do you think? 4 5

28th December 2012 at 11:49 am
The Dude says:

Yeah, great. Celebrate the first guy who led America’s armies into the Middle East where they don’t belong. He’d only be a hero to me if he had resigned rather than leading the first Gulf War fiasco.

Hot debate. What do you think? 11 10

28th December 2012 at 12:01 pm
SSS says:

“Yeah, great. Celebrate the first guy who led America’s armies into the Middle East where they don’t belong. He’d only be a hero to me if he had resigned rather than leading the first Gulf War fiasco.”
—-The Dude

Bite me, Dude. No, wait. Cancel that. Eat my shorts.

Anyway, as I look at the “tossed salad” (medals and decorations) displayed on Schwarzkopf’s chest, I note the following: three (!!!!) Silver Stars (awarded for gallantry in action), 2 Purple Hearts (wounded in combat, twice), three Bronze Stars with V device (V stands for valor on the battlefield), the Combat Infantryman Badge, and a Master Parachutist Badge (meaning you jumped out of airplanes ….. a lot). This was one highly decorated and battle-tested general we just lost.

RIP, General. Hope to see you someday where old soldiers go.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 13 6

28th December 2012 at 12:22 pm
Stan says:

General Norman Shwarzkopf sleep wid da fishes!

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 3

28th December 2012 at 12:26 pm
crazyivan says:

Well no matter how good or bad this man was he is certainly not sleeping with da fishes.

More than likely he is just dead.

And if fish are in the vicinity, more than likely they eating him as opposed to taking a nap.

I swear, most people live in a dreamworld.

Like or Dislike: 2 1

28th December 2012 at 1:43 pm
Stan says:

Crazy

Sleep wid da fishes means —- he is dead! That’s what that means. It is a way of saying he is dead. He died.

Like or Dislike: 4 1

28th December 2012 at 3:57 pm
sangell says:

SSS

Don’t forget Lieutenant junior grade, John Kerry got a Silver Star and purple hearts too. He threw them away. An act which shows the value he himself assigned to their worth. Admiral Boorda, the fake hero Bill Clinton selected to be his CNO, purchased his decorations for valor at the Post Exchange. He only displayed real valor when, after being exposed, he committed suicide rather than the disgrace he brought upon himself and his uniform.

I respect combat decorations. I sure as hell didn’t earn any but I am not so naive as to believe every chest full of fruit salad walking around in the Pentagon is a genuine hero.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 1

28th December 2012 at 5:00 pm
flash says:

Yeah , the tools of Thugacacracy are infinite in number..I weep crocodile tears over the loss of another shit eating murderous cur void of concision of ideals.

Hot debate. What do you think? 3 8

28th December 2012 at 5:44 pm
SSS says:

flash

I know you have a soft spot in your heart for members of the armed forces. C’mon, admit it. What do you think of this guy?

(Stan, try and stifle yourself from your “he sleep wid da fishes” shit.)

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 8 0

28th December 2012 at 6:13 pm
Delaware Valley Sally says:

U.S. Soldier’s Creed:
I am an American Soldier.
I am a Warrior and a member of a team.
I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.

Hand Salute General

Like or Dislike: 3 1

28th December 2012 at 8:40 pm
FTL says:

Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf Dies at 78
By Micheal S. James | ABC News – 17 hrs ago.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Retired Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, who topped an illustrious military career by commanding the U.S.-led international coalition that drove Saddam Hussein’s forces out of Kuwait in 1991 but kept a low public profile in controversies over the second Gulf War against Iraq, died Thursday. He was 78.

A sister of Schwarzkopf, Ruth Barenbaum of Middlebury, Vt., said that he died in Tampa, Fla., from complications from pneumonia. “We’re still in a state of shock,” she said by phone. “This was a surprise to us all.”

A much-decorated combat soldier in Vietnam, Schwarzkopf was known popularly as “Stormin’ Norman” for a notoriously explosive temper.

He served in his last military assignment in Tampa as commander-in-chief of U.S. Central Command, the headquarters responsible for U.S. military and security concerns in nearly 20 countries from the eastern Mediterranean and Africa to Pakistan.

Schwarzkopf became “CINC-Centcom” in 1988 and when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait three years later to punish it for allegedly stealing Iraqi oil reserves, he commanded Operation Desert Storm, the coalition of some 30 countries organized by President George H.W. Bush that succeeded in driving the Iraqis out.

“Gen. Norm Schwarzkopf, to me, epitomized the ‘duty, service, country’ creed that has defended our freedom and seen this great nation through our most trying international crises,” Bush said in a statement. “More than that, he was a good and decent man — and a dear friend.”

At the peak of his postwar national celebrity, Schwarzkopf — a self-proclaimed political independent — rejected suggestions that he run for office, and remained far more private than other generals, although he did serve briefly as a military commentator for NBC.

While focused primarily in his later years on charitable enterprises, he campaigned for President George W. Bush in 2000 but was ambivalent about the 2003 invasion of Iraq, saying he doubted victory would be as easy as the White House and Pentagon predicted. In early 2003 he told the Washington Post the outcome was an unknown:

“What is postwar Iraq going to look like, with the Kurds and the Sunnis and the Shiites? That’s a huge question, to my mind. It really should be part of the overall campaign plan,” he said.

Initially Schwarzkopf had endorsed the invasion, saying he was convinced that former Secretary of State Colin Powell had given the United Nations powerful evidence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. After that proved false, he said decisions to go to war should depend on what U.N. weapons inspectors found.

He seldom spoke up during the conflict, but in late 2004, he sharply criticized then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon for mistakes that included inadequate training for Army reservists sent to Iraq and for erroneous judgments about Iraq.

“In the final analysis I think we are behind schedule. … I don’t think we counted on it turning into jihad (holy war),” he said in an NBC interview.

U.S. Army Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf stands near a tank during Operation Desert Storm on Jan. 12, 1991, in Saudi Arabia. Schwarzkopf, 78, died on Dec. 27. Bob Daugherty, AP

Schwarzkopf was born Aug. 24, 1934, in Trenton, N.J., where his father, Col. H. Norman Schwarzkopf Jr., founder and commander of the New Jersey State Police, was then leading the investigation of the Lindbergh kidnap case, which ended with the arrest and 1936 execution of German-born carpenter Richard Hauptmann for stealing and murdering the famed aviator’s infant son.

The elder Schwarzkopf was named Herbert, but when the son was asked what his “H” stood for, he would reply, “H.” Although reputed to be short-tempered with aides and subordinates, he was a friendly, talkative and even jovial figure who didn’t like “Stormin’ Norman” and preferred to be known as “the Bear,” a sobriquet given him by troops.

He also was outspoken at times, including when he described Gen. William Westmoreland, the U.S. commander in Vietnam, as “a horse’s ass” in an Associated Press interview.

As a teenager Norman accompanied his father to Iran, where the elder Schwarzkopf trained the country’s national police force and was an adviser to Reza Pahlavi, the young Shah of Iran.

Young Norman studied there and in Switzerland, Germany and Italy, then followed in his father’s footsteps to West Point, graduating in 1956 with an engineering degree. After stints in the U.S. and abroad, he earned a master’s degree in engineering at the University of Southern California and later taught missile engineering at West Point.

In 1966 he volunteered for Vietnam and served two tours, first as a U.S. adviser to South Vietnamese paratroops and later as a battalion commander in the U.S. Army’s Americal Division. He earned three Silver Stars for valor — including one for saving troops from a minefield — plus a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart and three Distinguished Service Medals.

While many career officers left military service embittered by Vietnam, Schwarzkopf was among those who opted to stay and help rebuild the tattered Army into a potent, modernized all-volunteer force.

After Saddam invaded Kuwait in August 1990, Schwarzkopf played a key diplomatic role by helping to persuade Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd to allow U.S. and other foreign troops to deploy on Saudi territory as a staging area for the war to come.

On Jan. 17, 1991, a five-month buildup called Desert Shield became Operation Desert Storm as allied aircraft attacked Iraqi bases and Baghdad government facilities. The six-week aerial campaign climaxed with a massive ground offensive on Feb. 24-28, routing the Iraqis from Kuwait in 100 hours before U.S. officials called a halt.

Schwarzkopf said afterward he agreed with Bush’s decision to stop the war rather than drive to Baghdad to capture Saddam, as his mission had been only to oust the Iraqis from Kuwait.

But in a desert tent meeting with vanquished Iraqi generals, he allowed a key concession on Iraq’s use of helicopters, which later backfired by enabling Saddam to crack down more easily on rebellious Shiites and Kurds.

While he later avoided the public second-guessing by academics and think tank experts over the ambiguous outcome of Gulf War I and its impact on Gulf War II, he told The Washington Post in 2003, “You can’t help but… with 20/20 hindsight, go back and say, ‘Look, had we done something different, we probably wouldn’t be facing what we are facing today.’”

After retiring from the Army in 1992, Schwarzkopf wrote a best-selling autobiography, “It Doesn’t Take A Hero.” Of his Gulf war role, he said, “I like to say I’m not a hero. I was lucky enough to lead a very successful war.” He was knighted by Queen Elizabeth II and honored with decorations from France, Britain, Belgium, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain.

Schwarzkopf was a national spokesman for prostate cancer awareness and for Recovery of the Grizzly Bear, served on the Nature Conservancy board of governors and was active in various charities for chronically ill children.

“I may have made my reputation as a general in the Army and I’m very proud of that,” he once told the AP. “But I’ve always felt that I was more than one-dimensional. I’d like to think I’m a caring human being. … It’s nice to feel that you have a purpose.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/27/norman-schwarzkopf-obit/1795095/

Like or Dislike: 1 0

28th December 2012 at 9:36 pm
Llpoh says:

Gotta say I was never a fan. Served his country, so kudos for that. But was he a great general? Who knows. Fought in Viet Nam, over ran a bunch of camel jockies ill-prepared to confront the US military and who ran like rabbits. Buried thousands in trenches with bulldozers. Not exactly what you can compare to Ike, Mac, Patton, etc. very highly hyped, probably not his fault and seemingly it was not welcomed by him.

Hope he rests in peace.

Like or Dislike: 4 1

28th December 2012 at 9:54 pm
SSS says:

Llpoh said, “Gotta say I was never a fan.”

Modern land warfare took a dramatic turn after WWII. In the U.S. experience (Israel has a different perspective), with the exception of Korea and Desert Storm, there have been no concentrated, mass forces opposing each other.

Desert Storm is a highly unlikely experience which will ever occur again, and I am dismissing the invasion of Iraq in 2003 as such an experience, because that was a foregone conclusion that it would be like a hot knife going through a stick of butter. Both instances occurred against Arab armies, which are notoriously incompetent. Arab soldiers can be individually brave, but they just don’t get the concept of teamwork, of working and operating as A TEAM.

This has always been good news for the grossly outnumbered Israelis …. just ask the Syrians, Jordanians, and Egyptians and see how they would rate their armies performance. But let’s turn back to Desert Storm.

Did you listen to and understand what Schwarzkopf was saying in his debriefing of that war? Essentially, Saddam had the “classic” overwhelming advantage. His forces were on the defense, and their numbers were huge. They had plenty of time to prepare. Everything was in Saddam’s favor. It was a classical setpiece of warfare chess.

Schwarzkopf won. His feint exercises of an amphibeous assaust worked, just as Ike’s feints of “where are we going to land” in Operation Overlord worked in WWII. Checkmate.

The result? Utter destruction of the Iraqi army and liberation of Kuwait. Schwarzkopf made that happen at the instruction of our political leadership. What followed was a series of political missteps in which Schwarzkopf had no input. None.

So I gotta say I am a fan.

Like or Dislike: 4 1

28th December 2012 at 11:29 pm
crazyivan says:

“Essentially, Saddam had the “classic” overwhelming advantage.”

Of we go… into the wild blue yonder

Like or Dislike: 3 0

28th December 2012 at 12:03 am
Llpoh says:

SSS – I respect your opinion, as ever. I personally think pert near anyone in charge would have made short work of the Iraqis. Just my opinion. I think he received acclaim, unasked for, for doing what many others could and would have done. I may be entirely wrong, but the Iraqis did not put up any kind of a fight, either the first or second time. I have nothing against him whatsoever, quite the contrary. But I cannot consider him among the great war time generals.

Like or Dislike: 4 1

28th December 2012 at 12:25 am
stalker says:

petreus took a poison pill like his predecessor casey to get out of testifying on the bengazi attack.
hillary was drunk as a skunk the day she fainted and hit her head so she couldn’t testify until months later, meanwhile, a diversionary school assualt by a lone gunman takes the public’s mind off bengazi, she was dehydrated and had stomach problems, sounds like a hangover. i can see it now: 2016 – clinton petreaus vs mccain romney

Like or Dislike: 3 1

28th December 2012 at 2:20 am
flash says:

Delaware Valley Sally says: I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life

What a load of horse shit..
Take a good fucking look around, Sally. No one is protecting American freedom…not soldiers , not politicians and not you or you would realize the soldier is as dumb and complacent as every other American and cease with the ridiculous meme of soldiers protecting our freedom..SHEESH… . Stupidity begets stupidity.

Hot debate. What do you think? 7 6

28th December 2012 at 6:22 am
flash says:

SSS, Audrey Murphy was acting individually in self-defense which was in no way related to the warrant-less act of genocide committed by Shitstorm Norm on a retreating army.

Hot debate. What do you think? 4 4

28th December 2012 at 6:29 am
Delaware Valley Sally says:

Flash…you a vet? I doubt it.

Like or Dislike: 3 1

28th December 2012 at 3:41 pm
Delaware Valley Sally says:

To the General….thank you for your service. Rest in peace.

Like or Dislike: 2 1

28th December 2012 at 3:47 pm
flash says:

Yes,Sally, I saluted more worthless assholes than I care to recall.
And, I think the good General was well paid for the “service” he performed for our corporate criminal class.

There’s only been one General I know of who held enough respect for the American people to tell the truth..

http://www.warisaracket.com/

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
― Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America’s Most Decorated Soldier

Like or Dislike: 3 2

28th December 2012 at 4:06 pm
ssgconway says:

On ‘Political Generals’ vs. ‘Combat Generals’ – ‘Once An Eagle’ had it perfectly: Sam ‘The Night Clerk’ Damon in his muddy boots vs. Courtney Massengale with his swagger stick. Stormin’ Norman was one of the former; may he rest in peace.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

28th December 2012 at 6:20 pm
SSS says:

“I have nothing against (Schwarzkopf) whatsoever, quite the contrary. But I cannot consider him among the great war time generals.”
—-Llpoh

Neither do I. He’s not even close to being on my Top Ten list of great American generals. He was a man of his times, and he did his best with the cards he was dealt. And he did it well. For that, I render my salute to this departed American warrior.

That’s all I was trying to say, rather clumsily I must admit.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

28th December 2012 at 8:15 pm
Llpoh says:

Not at all clumsily. He was as you say a man of his times. The real fireof war was not his to wage,so we will never know. Good posts, SSS.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

28th December 2012 at 10:30 pm
DelawareValleySally says:

Okay flash…got it…..hey and thank you for your service. I genuinely mean that.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

28th December 2012 at 1:43 pm

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