Oh. My. God. I heard this this morning on the radio, and I am stunned.
Massachusetts already has some of the strictest gun laws on the books. To get a license to own a handgun, I had to get a background check, get fingerprinted, get photographed, pay $100, take a gun course, and demonstrate my proficiency by shooting at the police gun range on Moon Island and achieve a certain score.
Massachusetts is a “may issue” state, not a “shall issue”. This means that the police chief of EACH TOWN has complete discretion (read “whim”) whether to issue you a license or not. They also can add “restrictions” on your ability to carry your handgun concealed, i.e. most law-abiding citizens in Boston cannot carry concealed outside of their home, unless it is to take the gun to the range. On the other hand, a resident of a town that issues concealed carry permits without restrictions CAN carry within the city of Boston.
When you go to Boston Police Headquarters to apply for a gun permit, you are ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED with looks and incorrect information by the people behind the counter. They actually look at you like you have two heads, or are mentally incompetent to be asking for a gun license.
Also, you can only buy guns that are “approved” and listed on the two rosters (handgun and “large capacity” rifle roster). If a gun is not listed, you cannot buy it.
On top of these infringements, the gun laws are incomprehensible. There are so many, and so complex, that is it nearly impossible to fully understand them. If there are so many complex laws that the average person cannot understand them, then they exist to either deter you, or make you into an accidental criminal.
I have asked gun store owners, gun safety trainers, and POLICE questions about gun laws, and many times they cannot immediately answer me, or they give INCORRECT information. Yes, even the police. I have called Boston Police Headquarters with questions (because I want to be absolutely within the law) and they answer incorrectly. I had to go buy a guide to Massachusetts gun laws, and read the dense legalese to get the answers to my questions. It is a short, 142 page manual.
When you travel to the gun range with your guns, if you have a Class “A” license, you must have the guns “under your direct control” (i.e. on your body), or each gun must have a trigger lock or be in a locked container. Absurd.
And now, to pile further insult upon these Unconstitutional laws, a Democrat Legislator from Natick Massachusetts has filed a bill that will add more.
These measures would include: A 25% tax on ammunition and gun purchases! Mandatory signing of a mental health waiver so the State has access to your records! Mandatory storage of “high capacity weapons” at the gun club, not in your home! Mandatory purchase of LIABILITY INSURANCE!
NONE of these measures would in anyway affect the criminals running around Boston with guns – only the law-abiding citizens. This “Legislator” is such a STATIST I want to puke!
The added emphasis in bold is mine.
Adding to the debate over gun regulation and violence in Massachusetts, Rep. David Linsky, a Natick Democrat, plans to file legislation that would require gun license applicants to disclose their mental health histories and prohibit assault weapons from being stored in homes.
Linsky, a former prosecutor and long-time advocate for stronger gun control laws, said the bill he intends to file Thursday or Friday will include 25 different provisions, addressing everything from licensing standards and gun storage to limits on the number of guns than can be purchased each month.
The bill will join other efforts to address gun violence in Congress and on Beacon Hill in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. elementary school shootings. Gov. Deval Patrick on Wednesday filed his own bill, reviving his push for a limit on purchases to one gun a month and calling for an increased investment in mental health treatment.
Efforts to curb gun violence in Massachusetts could also dovetail with federal action after President Barack Obama on Wednesday unveiled a $500 million package of reforms, calling on Congress to pass universal background checks and ban military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.
The president also issued 23 separate executive orders, including ordering federal agencies to make more data available for background checks, appointing a director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and directing the Centers for Disease Control to research gun violence.
Earlier this month, Linsky held a closed door strategy meeting with more than 100 House and Senate lawmakers, including Republicans, to discuss gun violence and efforts to strengthen the laws in Massachusetts, which already include a ban on assault weapons.
“I expect it will be some things similar, and some things different,” Linsky told the News Service on Wednesday morning, comparing his bill to Patrick’s proposal.
Like the governor, Linsky said he supports a one-gun-a-month restriction on purchases. His bill will also require gun license applicants to sign a waiver giving police access to their mental health records, with felony criminal charges applicable to those who lie on their application.
Linsky said his bill will also propose a ban on large capacity magazines with more than 10 rounds, or five shotgun shells, and require that large capacity rifles and grandfathered assault weapons be stored at a gun club or shooting range, not in the owner’s home. Gun storage restrictions would eliminate the need to tinker with the types and definitions of weapons outlawed under the state’s assault weapon ban, he said.
“In my view, the only difference between a legal, large capacity rifle and a grandfathered assault weapon or banned assault weapon are cosmetics, so in my view they will be treated the same,” Linsky said.
The bill will also require gun owners to purchase liability insurance, and impose a 25 percent sales tax on ammunition and gun purchases to fund mental health services, victim services, firearm licensing and police training.
While the state of New York acted quickly to toughen its gun laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, the process in Massachusetts is likely to take longer.
Asked about the mandatory mental health reporting in the New York law, Linsky said, “I want to hear from mental health professionals before I do that. I’m not going to say no to that idea, but I don’t think it’s been vetted.”
House Speaker Robert DeLeo has asked Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt to lead a task force to study gun laws and the intersection between gun violence and mental health. Linsky anticipates a public review of his proposal, and said recommendations from the task force could eventually be folded into his bill.
U.S. Rep. Edward Markey, who is planning to run for U.S. Sen. John Kerry’s seat, called for an immediate vote on the president’s gun control legislation soon after the inauguration.
Congressman Joseph Kennedy III also issued a statement, calling plans to reduce gun violence “painfully overdue in this country.” “Over the past decade there have been too many lives lost, families broken and communities shattered by our inability to reasonably restrict access to dangerous weapons,” Kennedy said.
Patrick on Wednesday called on the Legislature to approve $5 million in new spending on mental health programs, including $500,000 to diagnose and treat mental illness among children, $1.1 million for mental health training in school systems, and $900,000 for crisis intervention training. Mental health advocates in recent years have asserted that Department of Mental Health programs have borne a disproportionate share of budget cuts.
“Obviously, not everyone who suffers from mental illness is violent, but concerns have been raised in the wake of Newtown – that mental health services be enhanced, and that’s something I’m sensitive to,” Patrick said in Quincy Wednesday morning.
Patrick’s bill would require courts in Massachusetts to transmit relevant mental health records to the state’s criminal justice information system so the information can be included in a national registry that officials in all states can access when making decisions about issuing gun licenses.
The governor is also refiling his proposal to limit licensed individuals to no more than one weapon purchase per month from licensed dealers, and to require background checks for sales at gun shows. The bill would also reduce access to high-powered rounds of ammunition.
Patrick’s bill will call for tiered punishments for weapons possession on school properties and give police the authority to make arrests on school properties without a warrant, a change designed to quickly address dangerous situations. The bill will increase penalties for repeat gun law offenders and create four new gun crimes.
Read more: http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x1503802094/Linsky-outlines-gun-control-bill#ixzz2IEiiXRVQ
sangell says:
Some gun manufacturer should bring suit in Federal court against these state and local restrictions on firearms using the very same ‘commerce clause’ so beloved by big government fans to extend the reach of Federal power into every nook and cranny of our lives. Obviously, Massachusetts laws restrict the ability of Smith and Wesson to name but one to do its legal business in the state.
Imagine, for example, if North Carolina did not recognize drivers licenses issued by other states and required a resident to have an enclosed, lockable, garage to store an automobile before they could register a car in the state. The state might argue that this would reduce car theft, make its streets more attractive and reduce congestion but you can bet GM, Ford and every other car manufacturer would go to court and claim such laws were a restraint on their ability to do business in North Carolina!
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17th January 2013 at 8:30 am
Eddie says:
“If there are so many complex laws that the average person cannot understand them, then they exist to either deter you, or make you into an accidental criminal.”
I’m stealing this line and using it soon. Well said.
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17th January 2013 at 8:31 am
ThePessimisticChemist says:
The reason I’m so against this mental health screening is that they have a book with a diagnosis for EVERYBODY. Ergo, we are all criminals in the eyes of the law.
I mean, that was already evident, but it has certainly escalated recently.
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17th January 2013 at 9:20 am
Baltimore_Buch says:
I might be off base here but I’m OK with this. If a state wants to make ridiculous laws you always have the option to move. Should be the same thing with their healthcare laws or Colorado and pot. Forcing states to compete for tax revenue as a result of population numbers is a good thing right? I live in the People’s Republic of Maryland and as our corrupt Governor continues to add secret taxes(homestead) and now perhaps new gun laws – and if I want to I can move.
I think the bigger issue is when the Feds either make universal laws(pot, guns, healthcare) or blackmail states into falling in line(such as the drinking age).
If I’m off base here, please educate…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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17th January 2013 at 9:23 am
flash says:
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17th January 2013 at 9:35 am
Stucky says:
The people of MA got what they deserved by electing the shittiest of shitty politicians ever ….
the Kennedy’s, John Kerry, Tip O’Neill, Mitt Romney, Michael Dukakis, Michael Bloomberg (born and raised in MA), Barney Fwank …. and dozens of lessor known politicians actually convicted of felonies …
… so let’s not be surprised by the fucking outcome.
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17th January 2013 at 9:42 am
AKAnon says:
TPC is correct-giving the gov’t and head-shrinkers the discretion of who merits “mental health” restrictions is hiring a fox to guard your chicken coop. See AWD’s post in the EO post. I am quite certain that the “mental health professionals”, as a general rule, are pretty damn libtard. It would be trivially easy for them to argue that folks feeling the need to arm themselves are somehow inherently disturbed. There you go-if you want to own a gun, you can’t. If you don’t want to own a gun, you don’t need to (you hire armed security instead-see HarryP’s “Announce Gun Free” post). Does anyone remember what the majority of Soviet dissidents were imprisoned for?
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17th January 2013 at 9:45 am
card802 says:
People are succumbing to fear and wallowing in ignorance.
Yesterday the president said:
12:01 p.m. Obama says in the month since Sandy Hook, 900 Americans have died from gun violence. “Every day we wait, that number will keep growing,”
This number can not be verified, or substantiated. There is no data (that I can find) that supports this claim.
But in every single liberal blog or news outlet, this “fact” is being repeated over and over and fucking over.
This gun debate will be lost on pure emotion, not facts.
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17th January 2013 at 9:51 am
AKAnon says:
Yojimbo-I love you, brother, but when are you going to get your ass out of that cesspool? AK’s response to the Sandy Hook tragedy? Legislation proposed to permit trained & CCW permitted school employees to carry on school grounds. Common sense gun laws indeed-eliminate the “gun free zone” killing fields.
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17th January 2013 at 9:51 am
card802 says:
AKAnon,
Exactly what I thought as well.
Who will administer a test to determine your mental state?
And who will fail you?
The government?
The population is so stupid.
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17th January 2013 at 9:55 am
Dorkus Maximus says:
I agree somewhat with Baltimore Buch – but it bothers me how selective our overlords are when it comes to recognizing state’s rights (talk to Arizona about how much leeway the federalnazis and supreme court dickheads give their immigration laws). Ultimately, states should not be able to violate the bill of rights.
Massachusetts, like most of the eastern seaboard, is a leftwing hellhole. It’s a sinking ship. Pack your bags and move somewhere where sane people are still a majority.
Moving away from places like maryland and massachusetts is not a matter of not liking the progressive politics – it will soon be a matter of freedom or serfdom. Do you want to be a serf? Then stay. The sooner you leave the happier you’ll be.
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17th January 2013 at 10:06 am
Stucky says:
“Who will administer a test to determine your mental state? ” ——- card802
Excellent question.
I’m gonna shout for a moment —– THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE “TEST” ANYWHERE THAT CAN ACCURATELY ASSESS YOUR MENTAL STATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! None. Nada.
There is no “physical” test to prove the mental state of a patient. Things like blood work, DNA testing, brain scans or anything else. The science simply does not exist.
There are no non-physical tests either.
What you have is a bunch of head doctors who talk, talk, talk your fucking ear off, talk some more and observe. They may give the person some puzzles or logic questions to solve, or a questionnaire to fill out. Then they sits and thinks, sits and thinks, ….. and then magically declare a Diagnosis that they pull out of their asses. Trust me on this. It is 100% SUBJECTIVE … nothing more than a goddamn fucking opinion. Five doctors working independently would give you five different diagnosis, guaranteed.
Mental Health screening won’t solve dick. In fact, the true nut cases out there are EXCEEDINGLY good at fooling doctors! The best solution? Give everyone a lobotomy … starting with the politicians of course.
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17th January 2013 at 10:27 am
JJ3 says:
Government is a virus on the consciousness of humanity. It is no longer needed and should be eliminated completely, what starts off as an idea of how to manage society eventually grows so large it consumes the host, IE the people. Every service that government provides from roads, police even the judicial system is a government monopoly on that service with the competition completed eliminated. If the police had to compete for our money, IE we could stop paying them and go with another police force, you can gaurantee that they would be courteous and helpful.
Same goes with every government agency, every time a new law is passed, government grows larger because you have to have more people to help enforce the law and more people to track the law, etc. Humanity needs to move past the mindset that government is needed in any way shape or form. There is nothing that government does that cannot be done better by competing private companies. Competition between businesses puts the power back in the hands of the consumer and out of the hands of the government monopolies.
Now before you ask how this will all be paid for, please take the time to look at your last paycheck and add back all of the payroll and federal taxes that were taken out and then eliminate the tax you pay on your gas, your groceries, your state income and/or sales tax. Add all that back in and then let’s talk about how much a private police force would cost. You pay on a subscription basis, just like you pay for cable or insurance. Same goes with roads. Think it can’t be done, then please explain to me how the railroads were built with competing private companies and had their own police forces to prevent railway robbery.
The answer is not limited government it is no government. The fact that Massachusetts already has these laws on their books, shows that freedom has lost, and tyranny has won. Read Murray Rothbard to understand more of how a TRUE absolute free market society will work. It is the only option we have if we want humanity to take it to the next level, IE reach the stars, explore the universe. Government is limited in it’s ability to help people evolve as evidenced by the collapse of every goverment throughout the ages and the similarities of how all governments eventually decline and collapse. It is an inherit feature that exists in all governments that eventually the human craving for power will implode it.
So I repeat, government is a virus that needs to be eliminated in order for humanity to reach our full potential.
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17th January 2013 at 10:38 am
Eddie says:
I’m drafting new gun legislation for Texas.
Henceforth, all Texans will be required to have:
1. At least one pick-up truck with a gun rack.
2. Said gun rack shall be able to safely contain at least two rifles or shotguns.
3. Every citizens shall be required to equip said gun rack with at least one of the following:
Ruger Ranch Rifle
AR-15 or equivalent
Lever Action Saddle Gun
12 Gauge Autoloading Shotgun
4. Other firearms are not required, but are encouraged.
5. It will be the citizen’s duty to demonstrate that he/she has adequate ammunition in the truck at all
times to repel criminals, foreign invaders, or space aliens.
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17th January 2013 at 10:54 am
card802 says:
Stuck: “What you have is a bunch of head doctors who talk, talk, talk your fucking ear off, talk some more and observe.”
Sort of like any form of torture, after a while you will say what they want you to say, then…..
DENIED
Next……
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17th January 2013 at 12:00 pm
KaD says:
It’s frightening to me that so many people REFUSE to see the facts-that taking more guns out of the hands of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS is only going to further the criminal element, and indeed one or two concealed carriers at Sandy Hook may indeed have ended the massacre much more quickly and with few or no fatalities, as has been proven by similar incidents where a person with a CCL intervened.
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17th January 2013 at 12:10 pm
Bostonbob says:
This is from the state whose Governor, affectionately known as Mini-me, just proposed a 19% hike in the income tax. The state Senate is 35 D and 5 R, the House is 144 D and 35 R and most of the R’s are fairly liberal. They are emboldened by a sheeple populace that vote them in blindly. The last three leaders of the house are all convicted felons, sadly only one doing time. I am waiting for our youngest to graduate and my wife and I will move out of state. It is dissapointing to be driven out of the state that you grew up in, invested most of your adult working life in and almost all of your relatives live in, this is the state we are in. Ironically I spend a great deal of time explaining to my children to be careful of what and how they are taught in school. My high school daughter’s class was brought to the Lincoln movie, but before she went I made sure that she saw some of the opinions of Professor DiLorenzo. She will often express a contrary opinion to here classmates to their horror, she gets a laugh out of it because the cannot form an opinion of their own only repeat the uber liberal opinions of there parents and teachers. I have explained to my son this this will all break at some point and unfortunately his generation will be left to fix what his parents and grandparents generation broke so thoroughly.
Bob.
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17th January 2013 at 12:11 pm
AWD says:
Bob Schieffer compares Obama to Stalin!
Bob Schieffer Likens Obama ‘Taking on the Gun Lobby’ to ‘Defeating the Nazis’
Dear Comrades,
During the celebratory broadcast of the State Broadcast Media Collective’s Central Broadcast Service (CBS) yesterday, Vietnam War agitator and Party veteran Comrade Bob Ivanovich Schieffer compared Comrade Party Chairman and President Barack Barackovich Obama’s Universal Pacification and Disarmament Plan to Comrade J. V. Stalin’s defeat of the Fascists during the Great Patriot War!
Comrade Bob Ivanovich’s unquestioned loyalty to the Party was expressed by his high praise of Comrade B. B. Obama’s speech, which he characterized as “one of the best speeches I’ve ever heard him deliver.” In addition, Comrade Bob Ivanovich also restated the Party’s principle that the Universal Pacification and Disarmament Plan is to further the Civil Rights of all USSA workers and peasants, by offering them a glorious future of peace and prosperity without the threats of violence, dissent from Party doctrine, or cuts to Social Redistribution Programs.
It is clear to all reasonable citizens that the pacification and disarmament of the Masses is essential for not only the harmony of society, but to ensure the cooperation of all people, including those who may still harbor the reactionary and decadent ideas of Capitalism. Already, our State is directing researchers and academics to uncover the mental illnesses behind the ideations of weapons ownership, so that the State can better treat those suffering from mental illness so that they may join those of us who are sane and properly formed in Socialist thought.
The People owe a debt of gratitude to heroic men like Comrade Bob Ivanovich, who have labored for decades in the struggle against the Bourgeoisie. His public agitation for the defeat of Amerikkkan forces in Vietnam helped liberate millions of Vietnamese so that they could live in peace and freedom under Socialism, just as Comrade Josef Vissarionovich liberated millions of peasants and workers from the tyranny of the Nazis, and offered them the peace and security of Socialism throughout Eastern Europe.
We salute Comrade Bob Ivanovich Schieffer for demonstrating loyalty to the Party! Help Comrade Barack Barackovich build on Stalin’s Dream!
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17th January 2013 at 2:50 pm
Sancho says:
Experience from the US of the future preview (a.k.a. Argentina):
- I was fingerprinted and photographed
- I need a psicologyst of psichiatrist certificate than I can own guns. The prosecute the professionals if someone commits a crime afterwards, so 90% of them will refuse to sign a certificate.
- I need to profide a proof of “lawful means of leaving” (like a paycheck or tax statements)
- I can only buy ammunition for the guns I own
- I have to register reloading machines and each die. Can only own dies for the caliber of the guns I own.
- I can only store 1000 cartridges (even for .22 LR)
- There is a “de facto” wait time of 30 to 45 days. The dealer won’t give you the gun until a card with your name and gun serial is issued by authorities
- Carrying is a felony. You can only keep guns at home or at shooting range.
- If you go hunting there cannot be more than 4 firearms in any vehicle.
- Permit has to be renewed every 5 years. If you don’t live in Buenos Aires and know the ropes you have to contract a person to go thru all the paperwork
- The cost of that is around half a monthly minimum wage (just to get a 5 years permit)
- Owning an unregistered gun is a felony. No grandfathering allowed.
- Defending your home from an armed robber with an unregistered gun (i.e. an old gun from you father you have not registered) put you on trial for unlawful gun possesion.
The results are:
- The felonies carried out with guns is going up and guns laws are being hardened. The last one is that you need a goverment permit to play paintball (under the excuse that is “training to use guns”)
- 98% of murders (not counting suicides) are carried out with unlawful guns.
- There are “rent a gun” criminals. That is, people specialized in providing guns to other criminals for a short period of time. Rates are around (as far as I know) 20-25% of a new gun per day + a full value deposit. Tax Free. I have heard of criminals renting fully automatic 7.62 rifles stolen from the military. Robbers don’t risk having guns at home that would make a perfect excuse for police to jail them after a search.
Surprised that it did not work?
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17th January 2013 at 2:54 pm
Dorkus Maximus says:
KaD uses the right word – they REFUSE to see the facts.
Vincible ignorance (a favorite subject of Aldus Huxley) is a big problem nowadays. People really WANT to believe. They don’t want the happy “reality” they have created for themselves shattered by facts that don’t match their pink bubble existence.
I know a guy who’s incredibly intelligent, logical and analytical, but he REFUSES to apply his formidible intellect when it comes to barrack obama (and no, I’m not talking about Kunstler).
When I tell him things abouit obama, he acts like I’m making it up! Then I’ll Google the issue right there on my phone prove it and HE REFUSES TO LOOK AT THE PHONE!! It’s not that he disagrees with the information or disputes the source – he almost literally puts his hands over his ears and sings “la la la la la.”
I’ve seen this guy attack problems and issue with incredible rigor – he keeps studying and analyzing and struggling long after I’ve given up. But Obama could say the moon is made of cheese and this guy would accept it, although “submit to it” might be a more accurate description. It’s incredible, baffling and really troubling to see it.
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17th January 2013 at 3:18 pm
Eddie says:
Sancho.
Extremely interesting. Thanks for the post.
Don’t none o’ you nutjobs get any ideas about starting a rental business.
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17th January 2013 at 3:25 pm
Tom Harvey says:
I’m glad to have gun insurance be discussed.
It’s possible to have good insurance which provides for everyone hurt, has the insurers discourage unsafe practices including letting one’s gun be lost or stolen and still is not too much of a burden on legal gun owners. It starts with requiring manufacturers to have a no-fault insurer that only gets off the hook when another insurer takes it over. Lost or stolen or diverted guns are still covered by the last insurer. That makes it unnecessary to register guns or enforce the insurance purchase below the manufacturer level.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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17th January 2013 at 3:34 pm
KaD says:
Dorkus: yeah, I have recent experience with this phenomenon. I lost a friend of 12 years in a disagreement. I sent her links to the opinons of PhD’s in several areas and many studies but she simply refused to hear it, even becoming insulting with me. I think this says it well:
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
John F. Kennedy
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17th January 2013 at 12:21 pm
KaD says:
And this:
No one can be a great thinker who does not recognize that as a thinker it is his first duty to follow his intellect to whatever conclusions it may lead. Truth gains more even by the errors of one who, with due study, and preparation, thinks for himself, than by the true opinions of those who only hold them because they do not suffer themselves to think.
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
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17th January 2013 at 12:22 pm
Thinker says:
KaD, I love that quote. It’s very true… sometimes one doesn’t want to believe something, but if all the data and evidence leads to the opposite conclusion, a real thinker has no choice but to change his mind. Too often, decisions are based on emotion and not rational thought.
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17th January 2013 at 12:52 pm
Marc says:
In 1991 I went to the Boston Police Department with a completed handgun permit application and the application fee, around $75-$80, I think it was at the time, in hand. The BPD sergeant taking the applications eyed me up and down with nothing but contempt, suspicion and HATRED in his eyes. As I watched he took a rather large DENIED stamp and stamped the application. When I objected to this rather extra-judicial adjudication process, I was THREATENED with arrest grabbed by the sergeant and escorted out of the building. So, in case anybody cares, the BPD background check was a total farce and highly capricious in the early 90′s. As soon as I was able to seek employment elsewhere I got the hell out of the state, I didn’t go back for 13 years, and that was only to visit family. I have not been back since. I am sure that the assclownship of the BPD continues to this day. Good luck if you are still living there. They don’t respect basic human rights there never mind constitutional rights. I have been lawfully licensed to carry a firearm by my current state where the local PD can’t step on my rights as a course of everyday business…
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17th January 2013 at 4:22 pm
gubmint cheese says:
Marc;
Did they keep the $80 bucks anyway? What a racket.
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17th January 2013 at 4:57 pm
Marc says:
Gubmint Cheese: They kept the money, threatened me with arrest and then threw me out…
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17th January 2013 at 7:59 pm