We went to see Lincoln this past weekend. I know this is sacrilege to all of the Lincoln haters out there. My view of Abraham Lincoln has changed dramatically since I started this site. I had been brainwashed to believe the myth that Lincoln was a saintly figure who freed the slaves. After reading the arguments of flash and many others on the site, I realized the history taught in our schools is a whitewashed version of the truth. I do not believe Lincoln was evil, as some try to argue. I believe he was a flawed human being, put into an extremely difficult situation, who made decisions which set in motion an ever more powerful Federal government.
I personally thought the movie was outstanding. Spielberg did not glorify Lincoln. He humanized him. It was not a tribute to Lincoln. It was a balanced examination of the year 1865. I consider myself a student of history and a Civil War buff, so I found the movie to be fascinating and informative. Spielberg brought the same brutal gritty realism to Lincoln that he brought to Schindler’s List. From a film-making standpoint, it deserves to be in the running for Best Movie. Daniel Day Lewis should be a lock for Best Actor. He is brilliant and believable as Lincoln. Sally Field as Mary Todd Lincoln and Tommy Lee Jones as Thaddeus Stevens deserve strong consideration for Best Supporting Actors.
Spielberg does not candy coat Lincoln’s actions. The Democrat and Southern view of Lincoln as a killer, law breaker, and tyrant is voiced loudly in the scenes during Congressional debates. The movie is entirely set during the historic year of 1865 and focuses on the passage of the 13th Amendment to abolish slavery. I particularly liked seeing the attitudes, decisions and dynamics of the last year of the Civil War Fourth Turning. It gives me an inkling of what will happen during this current Fourth Turning.
The scene where Lincoln pleads with his cabinet to support his effort to pass the 13th Amendment captures the complexity of Lincoln with all his faults, frailties, and fortitude. The reason he wanted the 13th Amendment passed during the lame duck session of Congress before his 2nd inauguration is because he knew that he had broken the law by freeing slaves with his Emancipation Proclamation. He originated the concept of Executive Orders. He was fairly certain the courts would overturn it. Therefore, he needed the amendment to pass before this could occur. Spielberg doesn’t try to gloss over the fact that Lincoln committed criminal acts by suspending habeus corpus and interpreting the Constitution in any way that helped his cause. Lincoln needed 20 Democrat votes in the House to get his amendment passed. He hired men to bribe the required number of Congressmen. He bribed them with patronage jobs, cash, and threats of retribution.
If you think Congress is corrupt and dysfunctional today, it was just as bad in 1865. Again, this was a Fourth Turning. There are no compromises in a Fourth Turning. The wars are fought to a final decisive conclusion. The leaders during a Fourth Turning will do whatever is required to win. They don’t worry about the means to their ends. This is the slippery slope that Lincoln needed to walk. The actions he took during these years have had far reaching consequences that he didn’t consider at the time. The power of the Federal government and the industrial corporate interests became conjoined and have grown ever larger over time. Future Presidents have used Lincoln’s decisions as the basis for expanding the power of the Executive branch. Many Libertarian minded people despise Lincoln for the actions he took during the Civil War.
I do not believe he was an evil man. I believe he was a decent man put into a terrible situation who made many mistakes, but ultimately kept the country together. Some would argue that he should have let the South form their own country. Would we have been better off? Slavery as an institution was immoral and evil. How long would it have lasted in a seperate Southern nation? Maybe 10 years. How many border wars or national wars would have occurred if there were two Americas? The industrial North would have grown ever more powerful and the South would have been left behind. Attempting to reunite the country was not an evil act.
Lincoln bore a terrible burden during his Presidency. He lost his young son Willie to typohoid fever and this loss practically drove his wife insane. He was elected to office with only 30% of the popular vote. His cabinet thought they were smarter than him and were often uncontrollable. He had radical Republicans on one side and secessionist Democrats on the other. He was the only moderate in Washington DC. The battlefield deaths took a terrible toll on him. He was haunted by the 600,000 dead souls. He was plagued by terrible generals during the 1st few years of the war. He aged terribly over four years. His sorrow bore heavily on his soul.
The information which I found most eye opening in the movie was the impact of Thaddeus Stevens on passage of the 13th Amendment. He was a Congressman from my neck of the woods in Montgomery County PA. He was a nasty SOB. His tirades in Congress against his opponents would make him a perfect fit on TBP. He was the leader of the Radical Republicans and the chief proponent of freeing the slaves. He believed they should have the right to vote and were the equals of white people. This was radical thought in 1865. He never married, but his common-law wife was black. He hated Lincoln. He hated the South. He hated Democrats. His hate knew no bounds. But Lincoln needed him to pretend to be moderate in order to get the amendment passed. He sacrificed his ego and rose to the occasion. Without his efforts, the amendment would have never passed.
Most Southerners have always hated Lincoln and still hate him to this day, but his assassination was the worst thing that could have happened to the South. He had no malice towards the South, its leaders, or its people. He wanted a reunion of the states. He did not want retribution, hangings, or reparations. He would have treated the South with respect. Instead he was replaced by Andrew Johnson. Thaddeus Stevens led the effort to make the South pay for their sins. When Johnson did not go along, Stevens led the effort to impeach him. Reconstruction was brutal on the people of the South and the blowback was worse for the poor blacks that made no progress over most of the next century.
I find it fascinating that it was the Republican Party that freed the slaves and fought for their equality, but now 148 years later black people vote 90% for the Democratic Party. The blacks were treated so badly in the South for the 100 years after the Civil War that it was Democrat guilt that brought about the entitlement state with LBJ’s Great Society. Democrats tried to buy the votes of black people with entitlements. What has happened over the last 50 years has been a re-enslavement of black people in the chains of welfare. They are now trapped in urban plantations with no hope of escape. I wonder if they grasp the irony.
I know flash and others will not be changing their opinions about Abraham Lincoln, but I believe that every human being has good and evil within them. We are all terribly flawed and subject to the circumstances we are placed in. We often judge historical figures without putting ourselves in the context of their situation. Having the responsibility thrust upon him, Lincoln did whatever it took to try and preserve the Union. He broke laws, overstepped his Constitutional authority, imprisoned his opponents, ordered hundreds of thousands of young men to their deaths, and ultimately preserved the Union. He was a strong decisive leader. Fourth Turnings always require such a person or persons. We may get the chance to test our own mettle, as this Fourth Turning progresses. I wonder if we will be up to the task.
1865 was one of the most important years in the history of our country. Decades of history occurred in the space of one year. The Battle of Wilmngton NC, the 3rd Battle of Petersburg, passage of 13th Amendment, Lincoln’s 2nd Inauguration, Surrender at Appomattox, and assassination of Lincoln all occurred in the first five months of 1865. Fourth Turnings always build to a crescendo of intensity, disarray, and a decisive dramatic conclusion. Spielberg captures this dynamic in his excellent movie.
I would highly recommend this movie to anyone who wants a better understanding of this important time in history. It does a fine job of distinguishing between the myth of Lincoln and the reality of Lincoln. Even the Lincoln haters might like it.
Gayle says:
Thanks for the movie review and the attempt to reconcile profoundly different views of Lincoln. I haven’t seen it yet, but I wil put it on my priority list.
I was struck, as I was reading your descriptions of how “his sorrows wore heavily on his soul,” that perhaps the assassin’s bullet was ultimately an act of mercy provided by Providence for Mr. Lincoln.
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26th January 2013 at 10:09 pm
GreasedUpWillie says:
Good input Admin. It is easy to monday morning quarterback Lincolns various contreversial decisions, and I think a lot of the Lincoln-hate is a result of that. But those years were probably the most trying in the history of the nation. Lincoln fought to keep the nation together, while the north got it’s ass kicked until Gettysburg. He did it while dealing with the death of his son. Facing unrest over the draft. And dealing with a hard fought election in 64, where with things finally going in the Union’s favor, his former general McClellan tried hard to win the election and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And when all was said and done, he got an assasin’s bullet for his troubles. Yes he made some mistakes, but I have always considered him one of the greats.
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26th January 2013 at 1:20 am
Administrator says:
Countdown to flash posting 46 articles by Tom DiLorenzo
5,4,3,2,1 ……
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26th January 2013 at 7:38 am
Welshman says:
The cotton gin was the end of slavery, as slaves were a pain in the ass. The perfect slave would have been one with a ignition switch like a gas engine. Look at the prices of horses and farm land for oats once the gasoline engine was perfected.
While your take on Lincoln was a nice read, he was a evil prick period. But I agree his assination really hurt the South recovery.
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26th January 2013 at 8:10 am
flash says:
admin– very nice…I almost shed a tear and I’m not being sarcastic.You have the gift.
That said, it was a movie.
Lincoln could have cared less about the 13th amendment and yes it does need to be said ,everything that flows out of Hollywood is permeated with the taint of bullshit.
For the record , there is very little animosity left in the south towards Lincoln and only amongst those that have studied history and rightly despise all tyrants whether of the nazi, communist or republican persuasion.The old genteel south is dead…never to be resurrected.The majority of modern southerners are transients and have no basic knowledge of Southern culture or heritage and whats more , have no interest in learning….Nowadays Honey Boo Boo and Buckwild capture their imagination… Antietam not so much…never even hear of it.
After reading your review and synopsis of Lincoln the man and the movie,I look forward to seeing the movie , but I’ll have to wait for the DVD for various reasons.
BTW, I’m honored to have been influential in kindling your interest in learning more about the Real Lincoln.I’d like to think it some small payment towards the vast wealth of socioeconomic and political education you’ve spilled your guts providing for any who care to partake on TBP for the last 4 years.
A tip of the hat to you sir.
http://lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo245.html
It never happened according to the foremost authority on Lincoln among mainstream Lincoln scholars, Harvard University Professor David H. Donald, the recipient of several Pulitzer prizes for his historical writings, including a biography of Lincoln. David Donald is the preeminent Lincoln scholar of our time who began writing award-winning books on the subject in the early 1960s. On page 545 of his magnus opus, Lincoln, Donald notes that Lincoln did discuss the Thirteenth Amendment with two members of Congress – James M. Ashley of Ohio and James S. Rollins of Missouri. But if he used “means of persuading congressmen to vote for the Thirteeth Amendment,” the theme of the Spielberg movie, “his actions are not recorded. Conclusions about the President’s role rested on gossip . . .”
Moreover, there is not a shred of evidence that even one Democratic member of Congress changed his vote on the Thirteenth Amendment (which had previously been defeated) because of Lincoln’s actions. Donald documents that Lincoln was told that some New Jersey Democrats could possibly be persuaded to vote for the amendment “if he could persuade [Senator] Charles Sumner to drop a bill to regulate the Camden & Amboy [New Jersey] Railroad, but he declined to intervene” (emphasis added). “One New Jersey Democrat,” writes David Donald, “well known as a lobbyist for the Camden & Amboy, who had voted against the amendment in July, did abstain in the final vote, but it cannot be proved that Lincoln influenced his change” (emphasis added). Thus, according to the foremost authority on Lincoln, there is no evidence at all that Lincoln influenced even a single vote in the U.S. House of Representatives, in complete contradiction of the writings of the confessed plagiarist Doris Kearns-Goodwin and Steven Spielberg’s movie (See my review of Goodwin’s book, entitled “A Plagiarist’s Contribution to Lincoln Idolatry”).
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26th January 2013 at 8:18 am
flash says:
Welshman, Slavery was becoming non-profitable due to cost of keeping slaves and mechanization that rendered large labor pools obsolete . It was only a matter of time before it would have been ended itself . Entire plantations and the slaves working were being abandoned because clothing, feeding and housing slaves ate up any ROI they could produce.
And, this fact is meticulously documented in the Harnett T Kane book linked below.
http://www.amazon.com/Gone-days-Harnett-Thomas-Kane/dp/B0006AWLCE
800,000 Americans did not have to die.
The rabid instigators of War agasint the South was the abolitionists like Andrew Johnson. Thaddeus, who not only wanted to end slavery, but they wanted the slaves to rise up in rebellion and slaughter Southerners enmass.And the abolitionists proponents of Secession from the slave states long before Southrons ever took to the idea.
The means justify the end, abolitionists are not unlike the passive -aggressive pro-tards of the day, who not only want Constitutionalists silenced, but have no qualms about how it’s done..dead or alive, if you will.
Bill Hoyt has an excellent book document the rabid ideology of death to Southerners adopted by a war mongering industrialized north.Give it a read…there’s more to this story than Spielberg cares to reveal.
Good Hater: George Henry Hoyt’s War on Slavery [Kindle Edition]
Bill Hoyt (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Hater-George-Slavery-ebook/dp/B008ET8BZA/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359208075&sr=1-3&keywords=bill+hoyt
I think it worth noting that after the industrialized North ran roughshod over a mostly agrarian society, no white man who served the Confederacy( and that would have been all) was allowed to hold state office , which saw the statehouses packed with blacks who stole the people, blind.
After it became apparent that the newly appointed black legislatures were incompetent legislatures and only interested in thievery, the Federal Thugacracy had to step in an allow whites to retake the reigns of Southern government if there was to be one.
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26th January 2013 at 9:00 am
TC says:
The South would have been left behind? LOL… Other than that line, an otherwise convincing writeup. Had sworn I wouldn’t see the movie, but guess we’ll spring the $1 when it comes out on Redbox.
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26th January 2013 at 9:03 am
Bostonbob says:
Admin, I always had an interest inn history and how it was told. I had a fascinating professor at UMass named Stephen B. Oates. Great Civil war and Lincoln professor. He would bring the period alive with music, dramatic readings and some of the earliest pictures in American history. He had us read his biography of Lincoln “With Malice Towards None”. Tremendously well written tome on Lincoln, fast and easy read. Well worth the time if the subject interests you. We also had to read “Killer Angels” a must read for the Civil War Period. He was later accused of plagerism which he fought vociferously, and was cleared. After watching Professor Dilorenzo tear Doris Kearns Goodwin a new asshole I was tempted to skip this movie, but you have changed my mind. I think it is time to reread “With Malice Toward None” again to gain a more balanced view.
Thank you,
Bob.
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26th January 2013 at 9:14 am
flash says:
There was nothing noble Yankee brigands murdering and robbing their way across the South.
It’s too bad the good folk of Gallatin Tenn. didn’t possess assault weapons in 1864.
And it has been said that Americans won’t fire on fellow Americans. ppppshaw!
http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/scriptorium/williamson/text.html
March 11th Yesterday was the day of elections and as only the union men were allowed to vote nobody knows how it turned out nor do they care. Sallie Montgomery rode out this evening, the pickets would not let her pass, so she slipped them as many do. I suppose they are scared again. Perhaps that scamp John Morgan is about. I only hope he is, for we have not seen a rebel for more than a year and our day must come soon
March 12th Old Payne dined at Mrs. Hales today: every one despises him but are afraid to show it. Yesterday he went up the country a few miles to a Mr. Dalton’s whose son came home from the Southern Army the day before and had the same day taken the Amnesty Oath. Riding up to the door he enquired of Mr. Dalton if his son was at home but before he answered his son came to the door. Old Nick then told him to get his horse and go with him. After insulting the father he carried his son a half mile away and shot him six times. One of Payne’s escort hearing the young man groan with pain placed a pistol to his temple and remarked, I will stop that, sir, he shot him again. But this is nothing new this is the fifth man that has been shot in this way, besides numbers that have been carried off by scouts and never return.
March 11th I learn today that Gen. Payne had no charge against Mr. Dalton, so he told his (Dalton’s) father. After killing him he rode back to the house and told Mr. D. that his son was in sight – he could bury him if he wished. Today a gentleman (Col. E____) was in Paynes office when he was trying a young man about sixteen years old and the only support of an aged father who was with him. His crime was being a rebel. Payne sent the young man to jail telling the guard to bring him out a seven o’clo. The father actually fell upon his knees before the heartless tyrant but was heartlessly bidden to rise and go home, the young man has never been heard of since.
April 6th. Payne is himself again. A few days ago he went to Mrs. Princes with a young gentleman of elegant appearance and demanded said gentleman’s baggage. Mrs. Prince told him it was not there and that she had never seen the man before. The stranger vowed he had never seen the house or lady before. Payne said he would carry the ‘feller’ back to jail and he should share the fate of 107. He has never been seen since. It originated from a lie that a contraband had told of Mrs. Prince: the gentleman was found walking on the railroad in the direction of Nashville and because he was alone he was taken for a spy.
April 7th. Another soldier was shot yesterday. The yankees went to jail and brought him while a citizen was standing near. He said the soldier was very poorly clad but his countenance was that of a gentleman. When the guard brought his horse to him (a broken down one from the camp) he asked what they were going to do with them. On being told to “Mount that horse and say no more . . .” he did so remarking that he supposed they were going to shoot him. They took him to the river to shoot him but finding some gentleman there – Mr. H. & M. they said they had gone in a hornet’s nest to shoot and went somewhere else. When they carry them out to shoot them they given them a worn out horse and tell them if they can escape they may: they say they “have fine fun chasing the boy with fresh horses” I am sorry I did not commence my journal when old Payne first came; he was worse then than now.
April 8th The young man that was shot Friday was from Sumner but no one can find out his name. Mrs. A and W was going from Col. G. and me! I think carrying him out to the pines. They say he wore a look of calm despair. The Yankees pretended that they were tired and sat down on the side of the road but made the soldier stand in the pike: he stood with arms folded across his noble heart (for well I know he was a noble Southron and eyes bent toward the ground as a pale as death while the yankees taunted him with such remarks as ‘I will have his boots;’ another would name something that he would.
9th. It has been a beautiful day but that kind only make us sad: it was not so once. The yake officers who stay at Paynes carried their wives out to see the soldier shot. Friday came back and said it was “quite funny to see the boys chase them.”
April 11th Another man was shot today at the race track: the yankee women went to see this one shot too; they say Capt. Nicklen is the one to work the prisoners and they intend to go and see them all shot.
April 15 Yankees scared to death; they are looking for Forest. No passes given all the stores are closed by order of “Old Marster.”
April 20th Yankees moderate; cooled down a little. — Two men from Wilson, one from Hartsville brought down 3 days ago and put in jail they have not been seen since; if they are not already shot they will be. One of them had a brother shot last week: the charge against him was that he had been a soldier.
April 21. “All quiet in Gallatin to-day.” Old Payne and all the rest are mad about the Fort Pillow affair. This vengeance will be taken out on the citizens of G. in a few days.
April 22. No arrests have been made yet on account of the “butcher at Fort Pillow.” Don’t be uneasy gentlemen your time will come soon.
Apr. 23. Well, well, was ever such a time seen before since E.A. Payne has been here, they have neither burned any houses or killed anybody in three whol days. What is going to happen? surely the rebels are coming once again to this God-forsaken village.
Apr. 28th Remarkably quiet: no murdering for several days
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26th January 2013 at 9:29 am
flash says:
It’s not surprising that the butt hole surfing grant baby Kenny Ass-Burns missed all the Southron diaries in his much ballyhooed and skewed Civil War series..
If there indeed be a Hell for set asides for the purveyors and transgressors of evil you can rest assured that Lincoln is smoking there today.
July 1, 1862
Well, what next? The whole community is in a state of excitement. The Federal commander has issued the order that all citizens are commanded to take an oath of allegiance to the Federal Government. Those who do not swear are not allowed to follow any business whatever and are prisoners at home. This oath compels thousands to swear against their own conscience or have their families to perish. Mr. Anderson this day subscribed to the oath required. It was a hard thing but the only alternative. Women and children are also required to swear allegiance or be prisoners at home. I am now a prisoner at home, liable to be arrested if I but leave the yard. God being my help, I will not take the oath unless circumstances beyond my control force me to it. We have been in an alarming drought this spring and summer. We had a heavy shower on Saturday June 28th.
Saturday, July 26th
Another panic is upon us. The conscript law is now in force in Missouri; all able bodied men from 16 to 45 years of age are compelled to enroll their names and drill immediately for Federal service. Mass meetings are being held – women pale & tremble and cry “what shall I do, what will become of me and my children?” Southern men say, “Must l fight against my friends, my principles, my conscience?” Their widows and mothers say, “No, never, shoulder your guns and go south and God being our help we will do the best we can while you strike for “God and Liberty!” While the old women and women of the Federal party say to their men, “Go, we will take care of your women and children while you fight for the Government and Federal party.” Now they [????] Feds — collecting, drilling; their women moving to papa’s and uncles, while the secesh move off in silent procession by the light of the moon leaving their families in the midst of their enemies. I look on and my heart aches and aches until it almost breaks. Then I say, “I thank thee Father that my husband and son are, the one too old, the other too young, to come under this conscript law.” Then I pray for them and us and for peace until my heart is discouraged and I fear there will be no peace, but God is good and “His mercy endureth forever.” The excitement is as intense as the mind of man can bear. The southern men who have taken the oath will now be compelled to fight their friends or forfeit their oath. Most of them I think will prefer the latter alternative.
Saturday, May 16th, 1863
I have just witnessed one of the most heartrending scenes I have ever witnessed. In the fall of 1861 our neighbor, William McClure, went south with his stock, negro and sons. His youngest son, Alvin, came back to his mother. He was soon made prisoner. After working as prisoner on the fort at Springfield, he started to try to go to his father in Texas. He started in December. News came back that he had been caught and killed as a spy which was proven by his having plots of the forts in and around Springfield. His mother knew this to be false and did not believe he had been taken but this spring she heard more particularly that he had been killed and not buried, that his body was rotting in the sun some 35 miles from Springfield. She took a wagon, charcoal and coffin and went to the place and sure enough there laid the decayed remains of her dear Alvin, her baby boy, the youngest and darling of the family. The flesh was all off his face and ribs. She knew the remnants of his clothes, the buttons, cloth and binding and his boots and says she knew his hands which were whole. She rolled him on a blanket and brought him home. She kept his remains some four days before burying them. We all visited the distressed mother and sisters. Oh what sorrow they feel God only knows. He was 19 years, handsome and quite intelligent.
August 27th, 1863
Since the death or murder of Mr. Danniel the Federal militia has killed a Mr. Brown, and Mr. [??Wan??] and a Mr. Bayless. They were shot at home, in cold blood. They have burned many houses, Mrs. Perkins’, Mrs. [??Sayed'??], Mr. Roberts’, Boone’s, Bends’ etc. etc. and some others. They say these families harbor bushwackers. They may and they may not, God only knows, for I don’t. Be that as it may, we have fallen on terrible times. That the innocent must suffer for the guilty. There is no help save in the protecting arm of God. He alone can save.
October 2, Saturday, 1863
Come my faithful old pen and make a record of the darkest night of my life, and while I record it on my little book, l pray God no darker day or night may ever pass over my horizon of life. Between nine and ten o’clock last night just after we had gone to sleep, our faithful “old Turk” awaked us by a fierce and desperate barking. Mr. A and I both sprang out of bed at once. I looked out at the window and saw three men in Federal uniform all throwing rocks and beating the dog, and a man at the door demanding it to be opened. We opened the door and he entered, a bony faced man without beard, had on an old slouched white hat and grey coat with his revolver cocked and presented. He called out, “Strike a light and be damn quick. ” I demanded who and what they were when they only swore at me to strike a light; a light was struck. He then demanded arms and finding none and knowing we had none, he then said, “You have green backs, you damn southern man, and we have come for it. I began to beg and cry out when he cursed me for a god damn fool and said if I did not get it quick he would blow Mr. Anderson’s brains out. He looked so terrible and threatened so awful that I gave him what money we had on hand, some $65 or so. He counted it all over and swore we had more and he would have it and also demanded gold but as I have no doubt he knew before he came what money was on hand, he did not search anything except one satchel. I went to the door and cried out hoping to alarm the near neighbors. When the man outside darted back into the shade of the house and hedges and one of them a tall man swore at me if I did not hush he would burn everything we had, but I still cried out until my daughter Belle sprang out of bed and clinging round my neck begged me to hush or they might kill her pa. They left in a hurry. We kept a light all night fearing they would return. At daylight we opened the door and old Turk rushed in and smelling all round found us all here. He jumped and reared and capered as though he was in an ecstacy of joy. It was enough to make us shed tears to look at his actions. The same night the robbers called on Mr. Andrew Appleby and robbed him of $80 or $90 and took the books and notes belonging to Dr. Wilson. The notes were found in the prairie next day. How long, oh Lord, how long?! Is there no “balm in Gilead” O God make bare thy almighty army and save us, Lord save us. Oh do thou in mercy direct our course – open a way for our safety. Help Lord or we perish!
Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge blind devotion to a flag representing a United State of Corporatism and to Fascism for which it stands, one Empire under tyranny, insufferable, without liberty or justice for all.
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26th January 2013 at 10:07 am
daddysteve says:
“the fact that Lincoln committed criminal acts by suspending habeus corpus and interpreting the Constitution in any way that helped his cause”
A tradition carried through to modern times. Truly great Americans.
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26th January 2013 at 10:15 am
TeresaE says:
The “anger” I feel, which occasionally manifests itself in my bashing of various Presidents – Lincoln being a favorite target – has nearly nothing to do with the MAN/MEN, themselves.
It truly bothers me that I, we, have been intentionally lied to while told how “moral” and “righteous” our nation is.
But what truly pisses me off is that the majority of humans are so intellectually compromised that even when presented with evidence to the contrary (Obama’s drones, for instance), they will fall back on their grade-school programming and shout down the truth if it doesn’t match.
Because I live with such a human – and see them everywhere, on every website, in every CSPAN lecture – it truly sets me over the edge.
Then I wonder what great things our future descendents will be taught about Obama, Hillary, Pelosi. Will Obama be made a national hero for using drones to kill Pakistani children? Will he be glorified for re-education camps? Stealing what others have earned? Stripping our guns? Shredding our Constitution (or what was left of it)?
Or will he be the guy that sets us upon the true end, and the history will be spoken in another tongue with us, the American “deciding” voter, being portrayed as evilly as the former German citizens turned hating, killing, Nazis have been portrayed to us?
We were spoon-fed hatred of the Nazis and Russians, and not just the guys whom made the actual decisions, but the PEOPLE.
Don’t we understand that WE are going to be judged the same way? I do. And yes, it angers the hell out of me.
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26th January 2013 at 10:25 am
AWD says:
“If you think Congress is corrupt and dysfunctional today, it was just as bad in 1865″
Maybe, but they were wrestling with getting people out of slavery. Obama and Congress today are trying to put people INTO slavery. Welfare, disability, SNAP, unemployment vacations make people slaves to the government. The massive increase in taxes makes workers slaves as they render 50% or more of benefits of their labor unto the government.
The total U.S. population in 1865 was 35.2 million. Today, there are 128 million people getting money from the government, and 30 million government workers.
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26th January 2013 at 10:43 am
Bostonbob says:
Admin,
I had another teacher who was a strong advocate of comparative history and he would often cite Arnold J. Toynbee. I had not read Toynbee extensively, but I recall he had done voluminous work on studying the rise and fall of civiliztions. He had an interesting backround dating back to WWI where he worked in the Political Intelligence Department for the British. He was at the Paris Peace Conference for the English as was Edward Bernays was there with Wilson. He has interesting views on turnings and how civilisations ultimately decline or survive.
Study of History
In 1934-1954, Toynbee’s ten-volume A Study of History came out in three separate installments. He followed Oswald Spengler in taking a comparative topical approach to independent civilizations. Toynbee’s said they displayed striking parallels in their origin, growth, and decay. Toynbee rejected Spengler’s biological model of civilizations as organisms with a typical life span of 1,000 years.
Of the 21 civilizations Toynbee identified, sixteen were dead by 1940 and four of the remaining five were under severe pressure from the one named Western Christendom – or simply The West. He explained breakdowns of civilizations as a failure of creative power in the creative minority, which henceforth becomes a merely ‘dominant’ minority; that is followed by an answering withdrawal of allegiance and mimesis on the part of the majority; finally there is a consequent loss of social unity in the society as a whole.[7]
Toynbee explained decline as due to their moral failure. Many readers, especially in the US, rejoiced in his implication (in vols. 1-6) that only a return to some form of Christianity could halt the breakdown of western civilization which began with the Reformation. Volumes 7-10, published in 1954 abandoned the religious message and his popular audience slipped away, while scholars gleefully picked apart his mistakes.[8]
This is a surprisingly accurate depiction of our current situation. My reading of it is that it does not end well for many of us.
Thank you,
Bob.
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26th January 2013 at 10:48 am
flash says:
TE, you’ll be happy to know…
The Northern corporatist elite defeated nontaxable chattel slavery so they could replace it with wage slavery coupled with taxation for life…. LOL…break what chains?
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26th January 2013 at 10:52 am
gubmint cheese says:
Lincoln was a truly amazing man
Quite the multi-tasker. Suspend habeas corpus, put down riots, institute the draft, crush the southern sucession and still have spare time to slay vampires.
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26th January 2013 at 11:06 am
Administrator says:
Flash
Let’s do a what if scenario.
What if Lincoln had let the Southern States form their own country.
How would history have changed?
How long would slavery have lasted in the South?
Would the North & South have gone to war eventually over something else?
Could each piece have thrived without the other?
Would it have prevented our country from becoming an Empire?
Would life be better or worse today?
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26th January 2013 at 11:18 am
Administrator says:
BostonBob
I’ve probably read 100 books about the Civil War over the course of my life. The author that got me inspired to learn more was Bruce Catton. He brought the times and the battles to life with his prose.
I’m sure someone thinks he is a propagandist Northerner.
The truth is a complex concept.
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26th January 2013 at 11:22 am
flash says:
BB, Unlike his detractors Spengler wasn’t afforded the hindsight of living in the future , but for the most part his prophecies due to the predictability of human nature are self-fulfilling.
“Every Socialist outbreak only blazes new paths for Capitalism.”
― Oswald Spengler
“There is no proletarian, not even a Communist movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, and for the time being permitted by money – and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact.”
― Oswald Spengler
“Through money, democracy becomes its own destroyer, after money has destroyed intellect.”
― Oswald Spengler
“For the Age has itself become vulgar, and most people have no idea to what extent they are themselves tainted. The bad manners of all parliaments, the general tendency to connive at a rather shady business transaction if it promises to bring in money without work, jazz and Negro dances as the spiritual outlet in all circles of society, women painted like prostitutes, the efforts of writers to win popularity by ridiculing in their novels and plays the correctness of well-bred people, and the bad taste shown even by the nobility and old princely families in throwing off every kind of social restraint and time-honoured custom: all of these go to prove that it is now the vulgar mob that gives the tone.”
― Oswald Spengler
“The question of whether world peace will ever be possible can only be answered by someone familiar with world history. To be familiar with world history means, however, to know human beings as they have been and always will be. There is a vast difference, which most people will never comprehend, between viewing future history as it will be and viewing it as one might like it to be. Peace is a desire, war is a fact; and history has never paid heed to human desires and ideals …”
― Oswald Spengler, Aphorisms
“The common man wants nothing of life but health, longevity, amusement, comfort — “happiness.” He who does not despise this should turn his eyes from world history, for it contains nothing of the sort. The best that history has created is great suffering.”
― Oswald Spengler, Aphorisms
And ,thus we see a pattern throughout history wherein commoners via total deprivation and oppression though no fault of their own are forced to blithely embrace their fate as dictated by an ever present ruling class of megalomaniacs….more empirical proof that Satan is indeed the prince of this world.
THE WAR-TIME JOURNAL OF
A GEORGIA GIRL
1864-1865
Julia Johnson Fisher, 1814-1885
Diary, 1864.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/fisherjulia/menu.html
Confederate States of America — Social conditions — 19th century.
In extenuation of this gentleman’s bibulous propensities, it must be remembered that such practices were much more common in those days than now, and were regarded much more leniently. In fact, I have been both surprised and shocked in reading over this story of a bygone generation, to see how prevalent was the use of wines. and other alcoholic liquors, and how lightly an occasional over-indulgence was regarded. In this respect there can be no doubt that the world has changed greatly for the better. When “gentlemen,” as we were not afraid to call our men guests in those days, were staying in the house, it was a common courtesy to place a bottle of wine, or brandy, or both, with the proper adjuncts, in the room of each guest, so that he might help himself to a “night-cap”
Page 8
on going to bed, or an “eye-opener” before getting up in the morning. It must also be taken into account that at this particular time men everywhere were ruined, desperate, their occupation gone, their future without hope, the present without resources, so that they were ready to catch at any means for diverting their thoughts from the ruin that enveloped them. The same may be said of the thoughtless gayety among the young people during the dark days preceding the close; it was a case of “eat, drink, and be merry, for to-morrow we die.”
Enjoy the Decline: Aaron Clarey:
http://www.amazon.com/Enjoy-Decline-Aaron-Clarey/dp/1480284769
PREFACE
Any doubt about the future of the United States and the direction the country was. The reason why doesn’t matter, all that matters “is what is.”
Of course “is what is” is a devastating blow to lot of conservatives, libertarians, freedom-lovers and what I henceforth refer to as “Real Americans.” Not just because politically or ideologically “our team lost,” but because our entire lives and all of our futures are now in question. heading was quickly eliminated in the election of 2012. Most of us were hoping the first four years of the Obama administration was a fluke in American history. That his election was only possible because of a childlike naivety on the part of an ignorant electorate. That the voting public, temporarily star-struck, opted to vote with their emotions and not their heads. And that after four years of the worst economic performance of any president since FDR, people would wake up, grow up, realize the error of their ways, and vote like mature adults the next time around.
Unfortunately most of us were wrong.
With the election of 2012 the American people have made it very clear which path they wish to take the United States down – socialism. Whether cognizant of this fact or completely ignorant about it, it doesn’t matter, people voted the way they did. They could still be fawning over President Obama like a teenage girl or Chris Matthews. They could be the typical voter who votes for socialism because it sounds “nice.” They could be the galactically ignorant soccer mom who believes no amount of other people’s money is too good for her children. Or they could be fully informed socialists knowing damn well what they’re doing confiscating other people’s money
“Let us eat and drink for tomorrow we die.”
-Ephesians
Berlin 1945
Too tired to play video games, but not tired enough to fall asleep, I found myself watching The History Channel late one wintery night in Casper, Wyoming. I managed to finish two episodes of “Pawn Stars,” before the programming switched to a WWII documentary. I debated turning it off and going to bed, but glad I didn’t’ because it proved to be one of the most interesting, but dark documentaries I’ve ever seen.
Specifically, it was about civilian life in Berlin while under the siege of the Russians in 1945. Berlin was nothing but rubble, supply lines were shot, and life for the average Berliner was wretched. They couldn’t escape to the east in fear the Russians would kill or rape them (or both). And they couldn’t escape to the west, not out of fear that the Americans and Brits would do the same, but that the Gestapo would kill them. This left them trapped in a city that not only couldn’t support the population, but a city that would become their grave. To survive they resorted to desperate acts. They ate horses, leather from furniture and whatever else they could find. And if this wasn’t enough it was all under the maddening backdrop of constant Soviet shelling. It was arguably some of the most miserable living conditions humans had ever suffered.
But where the documentary took a particularly dark turn was when it started showing footage of Berliners throwing parties in the midst of this hell. I didn’t understand it at first until the narrator explained since these people were doomed, they logically came to the macabre conclusion they might as well live it up while they could. Such “maniacal levity” was also documented by Albert Speer in his book “Inside the Third Reich” as he witnessed people being irrationally happy and cheerful even though their demise was imminent. The documentary became even more morose when a lot of these parties ended up becoming “suicide parties” where the participants would break out the hidden booze, whoop it up one last final time, and then all commit suicide at the end of the evening.
Of course the theme of the documentary did nothing for my sleep, but making it worse was that all these videos were visually dark and poorly lit. Since the city was constantly being shelled, there was no electricity. This left bonfires as the primary source of light and gave the videos a particularly eerie and barbaric feel as you saw people mix in and out of the shadows, all laughing maniacally. Booze would flow, people would laugh, glasses would break, participants would fall over one another, but it was as if the party was being held at the Arkham Asylum. They were no longer humans, they were turning into animals. They were no longer sane.
Or were they?
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26th January 2013 at 11:28 am
flash says:
Admin- Have no crystal ball ,I have no answer to “what if’s” , but I do know that Lincoln loosing a several hundred thousand killers and plunderers onto a mostly docile Southern population was wrong and unnecessary in any context.More mass murderer has been committed under the banner of peace than under any other.
The flowery rhetoric spewed by Lincoln and the brutal action he undertook to quell rebellion were polar opposites and are only reconciled in twisted logic and outright lies.
Would not diplomacy and wait and see policy been more of a hallmark of greatness than a mad rush to slaughter and subjection? And, for genocide and destruction of the those seeking self-determination (see the farce of Wilsonian doctrine) a psychopathic killer get his mug on a host of national monuments…only in bizarroo land.
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26th January 2013 at 11:45 am
AWD says:
An accountant AND a history buff?
Nerdly says what…
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26th January 2013 at 12:33 pm
Kill Bill says:
Then…
Republicans, IE Lincoln, were big powerful central government federalistas and the Democrats, IE Jefferson, were the small limited governmenters not beholden to the money trust.
Today…
The roles would seem to be reversed if you listened to the words they spew publcly but are not when you look at the actions they have taken behind closed doors.
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26th January 2013 at 12:35 pm
Bostonbob says:
What…
Thank you,
Bob.
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26th January 2013 at 1:01 pm
Bostonbob says:
Admin,
I am not familiar with Catton I will give him a try.I do not belive I have approached 100, although I may be close to that on WWII. The most recent havin been Laura Hiienbrand’s book “Unbroken”, a truly extrordinary story about a guy who I believe is still alive today.
Thank you,
Bob.
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26th January 2013 at 1:12 pm
Administrator says:
Bob
He won the Pulitzer Prize for Stillness at Appomattox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Catton
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26th January 2013 at 1:35 pm
Administrator says:
Flash
I don’t know if Lincoln had the option to try diplomacy. Would his own party have allowed it? I don’t know. That period was so wild and chaotic, it is tough to guage what was actually possible. Fourth Turnings seem to have a life of their own, driven by the mood of the generations. I think war was probably inevitable and probably unavoidable. But, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know for sure.
The deaths of 700,000 was certainly a large price to pay for preserving the Union. Was it worth it? Not if we can’t win during this Fourth Turning.
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26th January 2013 at 1:42 pm
Eddie says:
We read the Catton books in American History where I went to school. After reading Thomas Dilorenzo, I have to admit that Catton left a few things out.
Catton was a great story teller, and his works were prized for their great prose as much or more than their scholarly content…..and his books were probably selected for us by my professor because they were a lot more readable than some of the others.
We were Freshmen then, and young.
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26th January 2013 at 3:29 pm
BUCKHED says:
“Most Southerners have always hated Lincoln and still hate him to this day, but his assassination was the worst thing that could have happened to the South. He had no malice towards the South,”
So Jim….was this lack of malice on Lincoln’s part before or after Sherman’s march to the sea. The same march in which his soldiers killed one of my relatives who tried to flee the area to get medical help for a sick family member.
Sherman stated in his memoirs that Lincoln was delighted at the tales of the carnage that he brought to the Southern states .
I listened to my Grandmother tell stories of the Civil War and the occupation of the Federals which were first hand accounts from her Grandmother…none of it was pretty.
I’ve read hundreds of original letters, still in local families hands,about life before,during and after the War Of Northern Aggression….none is pretty.
I read the first hand account ( the original letter) of the burning of Columbia by the Mayor of Columbia, who told how the city was burned by drunken soldiers.
Flash the Old South isn’t gone….my family has been here since 1710 perhaps even earlier. We make sure Yankee’s don’t infect the place..LOL
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26th January 2013 at 5:58 pm
flash says:
Administrator- It’s likely Lincoln was a tool of North Eastern/Anglican money interests of his day and trod the path chosen for him, but regardless the hero worship of any man so deeply involved in the destruction of life, capital and infrastructure as was Lincoln is very telling of one characteristic of human nature.
The evil wrought by Lincoln and his Thugacracy and sanctioned by New England establishment churches was so repulsive and against all nature of humanity , that the only recourse left for good folk was to revise history, rationalize away the means to justify the end and use a propagandized press to turn Lincoln from Satan to Saint for the sanctity of their own souls.
The soul scorching burden of having participated in the , humiliation,murder, rape and robbery of an entire Nation of people by action or silence was more then a mere mortal could bear, so the myth of great, but humble philosopher king Lincoln came to save a nation in times of turmoil spewed forth , not for the cleansing of the image of Lincoln the tyrant , but for the cleansing of the souls of the guilty
The Lincoln myth serves as window dressing for an Empire built on lies.
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26th January 2013 at 7:57 pm
taxSlave says:
Lincoln was a monster.
Chattel slaver is an abomination.
Tax slavery is an Obamination.
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26th January 2013 at 8:25 pm
AWD says:
600,000 dead souls in the civil war. The total U.S. population in 1865 was 35.2 million.
Extrapolating for today’s population (335 million souls), that would be the equivalent of almost 6 million dead in today’s numbers. Wow.
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26th January 2013 at 9:40 pm
Novista says:
Latest Civil War death toll revised – 750,000, demographic analysis based on census comparisons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/civil-war-toll-up-by-20-percent-in-new-estimate.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
As for what if’s … the first I remember reading was Ward Moore’s “Bring the Jubilee” , an alternate history by a damnyankee.
Extrapolating from a peaceful separation, it is likely the institution of slavery would have terminated within a decade. Mechanization in the South would have happened earlier had northern machinery been more affordable. In the interim, the 450,000 abolitionists in the north would have been active and the underground railroad bringing more black souls to freedom. PIty about the black codes in some of the northern states …
Lincoln probably would have gotten his ‘colonization’ scheme going as a result.
With the South as a independent country, there would have been diplomacy and trade with Europe and England. Improved agricultural methods would have led to other progress and growth. The 5% of slaveowners may well have taken a leaf from England, compensated emancipation — when the early machines could each do the work of 19 men, the alternative to slavery became attractive.
Lincoln would probably have been a one-term president and gone back to being a railroad lawyer.
Going beyond, hard to say what major events would have been derailed. Spanish-American War? World War One? etc. A lot of Civil War profiteers would never have had that opportunity and the ‘Money Power’ in New York might have looked considerably different as a result.
Anyway, here’s another speculation: how would things have unfolded if Lincoln had not been assassinated?
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26th January 2013 at 12:38 am
flash says:
Novista , this new dead number (and I’ve seen it revised as high as 800,000) only accounts .The for the military dead.The ravaged land and decimated infrastructure coupled with the theft or destruction of anything edible left a Southern populace homeless, starving and highly susceptible to all sort of disease associated with malnutrition and exposure to the elements.
Cemeteries full of mother and children’s graves fully attest to the defeat and subsequent plunder of the Southland by a ravenous gangs of Northern vagabonds.
And ,the poverty and deprivation left in the wake of a huge swarms of Yankee sweeping the countryside lingered well on into the 20th century.It wasn’t until the three decades ago that the South began to regain some semblance of regional prosperity and growth, but now that turns out to have been more of a illusion brought about by cheep credit and low interest rates than anything else.
The service jobs are the only thing keeping the new Southron rap crap culture blasting, but for how much longer without the foundation of creating products of absolute necessity.
I see a generation of effeminate wanna-be boys and me-so special rosebud chatterboxes that have never had to do so much as wash a dish or hang out laundry about to be thrust in a “root hog or die” situation of which their parent bear the brunt of responsibility.
But, then we reap what we sow…..
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26th January 2013 at 7:29 am
flash says:
BUCKHED ,Flash the Old South isn’t gone.
I’d like to thin so too, but the Southron culture died with the integration of a barbaric culture into the public mainstream .Supposedly, the idea was to lift the barbarians up by exposure to civilized culture , but the opposite happened .Hedonism, vulgarity and entitlement won the day.
I think of my grandparents sometimes and wonder at the culture shock they would experience being thrust in to the present culture of baby daddy and joey has two dads.
Filth in filth out.
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26th January 2013 at 7:45 am
flash says:
Admin-Thanks for this post. Another way of viewing the War of Northern Aggression (and all wars hence) is in the realm of population control.
335 million today, but what if no one died prematurely? What quantities would resources required to sustain life be available to the common man?
Is war a necessary evil , regardless the victor, if for nothing else but population control?
Just as we have a deer season to control the grazing herd ,must there be a season of war to control the human herds?
e.g. I used to live in what was considered a wilderness area , where my dogs ran free unmolested by humans, boundaries against hunting were almost non-existent and permits and zoning to build whatever was necessary was something city folk suffered, but now the city-bred assholes have surrounded me and brought their effeminate rabbit people rules and regulations with them… I constantly hear from the femi-nazis and their dickless men-folk ” there ought to be law” as if the 30 thousand we have now is not enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH-gnMSzmtI
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26th January 2013 at 8:12 am
Administrator says:
Buckhed
War is hell. Ask the Germans who lived in Dresden. Soldiers are trained to kill. Deal with it.
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26th January 2013 at 8:25 am
Administrator says:
flash
War is certainly horrible. The South did bear the brunt of the misery. I wonder whether these Fourth Turning wars are unavoidable. It seems like the situations build to a point where resolution can only happen with bloodshed.
I like to choose disagreeable subjects, because that gets the best comments. I particularly liked Novista’s comment.
Would it have been better or worse for the South if Lincoln had not been assassinated?
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26th January 2013 at 8:49 am
flash says:
admin- IMO it would not only have been better for the South if Lincoln had not been assassinated due to his willingness to re-assimilate the South into the Union sans penalties and perfection, but maybe for the nation as well per his plan to repatriate the the free blacks back to their homeland.
Mixing a barbarian culture that lags behind western culture by 800 years or so has only drawn western culture to the level of a base tribal society .
From the WTF department :I just re-read the post and WP had changed re-assimilate to infinitesimal…go figure?
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26th January 2013 at 9:23 am
Administrator says:
flash
I know Lincoln had spoken about sending blacks back to their own country or a new colony, but I thought that was earlier in his life. Was he still considering that as a serious option in 1865?
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26th January 2013 at 9:32 am
flash says:
It has been said that the North defeated the South with one arm tied behinds it’s back and this is surely the case since the North had the funding via fiat , the industrial might and an unlimited supply of European immigrants…mostly Irish that they took directly from ship to shitstorm i.e cannon fodder if you will.
The South had no gold to speak of, untrustworthy currency and a dwindling population of native sons- due to the killing fielda-able to take up arms against a well supplied and mighty foe.
But even though out-gunned , out-manned , out-supplied and out-financed the brave rebels fought the good fight and took a terrible tool on a superior force.Man for man the rebels were the superior soldier, but in the end ,overwhelming force and the Sharps carbine won out .
For 110 years, the numbers stood as gospel: 618,222 men died in the Civil War, 360,222 from the North and 258,000 from the South
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26th January 2013 at 9:34 am
flash says:
LOL…..Admin. a quick Google turns up.. affirmative …. but Lincoln was not a racist …merely interested in increasing cotton and sugar cane production.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356078/Abraham-Lincoln-tried-deport-slaves-British-colonies.html
However, according to evidence from the British legation in Washington that has turned up at the National Archives in Kew, the president was deadly serious about black colonisation right up until his assassination in 1865.
Mr Magness and Mr Page say that just after Lincoln announced the freedom of three quarters of America’s four million slaves with his historic 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, he authorised plans to set up freedmen’s settlements in what is now Belize and Guyana.
And even as black soldiers were dying for the Union cause and a mission to send 453 freed slaves to colonise a pest-ridden island off Haiti met with a disastrous small pox outbreak, Mr Lincoln was secretly authorising British officials to recruit what could have been hundreds of thousands of blacks for a new life on the sugar and cotton plantations of Central America.
Papers show Lincoln personally met agents for the then-colonies of British Honduras and British Guiana and authorised them to go into the camps of the recently-freed slaves and find recruits.
One of the agents, John Hodge, assured the British ambassador that ‘it was [Lincoln’s] honest desire that this should go ahead’.
Academic: Sebastian Page, co author of Colonization After Emancipation, the book in which the claims are made
Academic: Sebastian Page, co author of Colonization After Emancipation, the book in which the claims are made
Lincoln also considered a plan to get thousands of black soldiers out of the way after the civil war ended by sending them down to Panama to build a canal.
The new evidence, contained in a forthcoming book entitled Colonisation After Emancipation: Lincoln and the Movement for Black Resettlement, is causing ructions in the U.S. over the legacy of its most revered president. Some neo-Nazi websites have seized on it as evidence of Lincoln’s anti-black inclinations.
However, Mr Page, a Fellow of The Queen’s College, Oxford, insisted that it was wrong to conclude Lincoln was a racist.
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26th January 2013 at 9:40 am
Administrator says:
The South had superior Generals. If Lee had accepted Winfield Scott’s offer to command the Union Armies, we may have had a swift resolution to the war.
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26th January 2013 at 10:14 am
flash says:
Administrator -The South had superior Generals.
Or so the story goes.. The South also had more of it’s share share of meritless officers chosen moreso by birth than achievement and personally I think Marse Roberts was one of those.
I believe Lee was as lost as the war he waged after the loss of Stonewall at Chancellorsville.
Another piss poor excuse for a General was John Bell Hood whose incompetence as a strategist led to the total destruction of the Army of Tennessee see Chickamauga and the Battle of Franklin which BTW, both great great grandfathers on my maternal and paternal (amongst other kin) side fought in.
“if we’re to die let us die like men”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHawSiKLanI
The book linked below is mostly a collection of letters,stories and events pertaining to the lives of a close group of confederate soldiers during the course of the war (and afterwards) which also include insight into the the inner -circle politics associated with incompetent ego maniac Generals looking to make a name for themselves at the expense of the lives of their men.
Damn well worth a read for a historical perspective on the feelings , trails and tribulations of those who fought so hard for Southern independence.
http://www.amazon.com/Hells-Broke-Loose-Georgia-Survival/dp/0820329339
“Darling, I never wanted to gow home as bad in my life as I doo now and if they don t give mee a furlow I am going any how.” Written in December 1862 by Private Wright Vinson in Tennessee to his wife, Christiana, in Georgia, these lines go to the heart of why Scott Walker wrote this history of the Fifty-seventh Georgia Infantry, a unit of the famed Mercer’s Brigade.
All but a few members of the Fifty-seventh lived within a close radius of eighty miles from each other. More than just an account of their military engagements, this is a collective biography of a close-knit group. Relatives and neighbors served and died side by side in the Fifty-seventh, and Walker excels at showing how family ties, friendships, and other intimate dynamics played out in wartime settings. Humane but not sentimental, the history abounds in episodes of real feeling: a starving soldier’s theft of a pie; another’s open confession, in a letter to his wife, that he may desert; a slave’s travails as a camp orderly.
Drawing on memoirs and a trove of unpublished letters and diaries, Walker follows the soldiers of the Fifty-seventh as they push far into Unionist Kentucky, starve at the siege of Vicksburg, guard Union prisoners at the Andersonville stockade, defend Atlanta from Sherman, and more. Hardened fighters who would wish hell on an incompetent superior but break down at the sight of a dying Yankee, these are real people, as rarely seen in other Civil War histories.
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26th January 2013 at 11:04 am
BUCKHED says:
Most countries had gotten rid of slavery via compensation emancipation . The slaves in the South were very valuable,to have to free them without monetary compensation would have like a business giving away its stock and starting over without any seed money .
Jim…if the British and French had have gone in full force with aid the War would have ended swiftly…for the South .
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26th January 2013 at 11:06 am