GEORGE GALLOWAY: “I DON’T RECOGNIZE ISRAEL”

59 comments

Posted on 25th February 2013 by Zarathustra in Economy

59 Comments

Randa says:

I love this guy. He holds nothing back and does not bend over for those Khazar inbred scum Israel-ite-wannabes.

He even apologizes that he was mislead about who he would be debating.

Hot debate. What do you think? 6 7

25th February 2013 at 8:02 am
napari says:

George Galloway made it plain that its his way or the highway at the about 40 min mark…

I totally get that Z wants to promote Z’s agenda. His posts are so one sided if they were loaded on a boat it’d roll over and sink. For anyone who can still think for themselves and haven’t yet swallowed Z’s weekly koolaid I’d like to point out that facts always get in the way of agendas. What Z wants is censorship to aid his preferences and fuck everybody else! One can choose to believe in reality based on facts or one can drink koolaid and believe in magical thinking land based on misrepresented information. The choice is yours…
Koolaid drinkers stop here and fast forward to thumbs down below.
Independent thinkers read the below post and decide for yourselves…

I care a lot what happens to Palestinians. I want them to stop killing Jews. When they stop that, we can talk about other stuff.

http://egnorance.blogspot.com/2012/12/what-anti-semitic-journalists-get-wrong.html
SATURDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2012
What anti-Semitic journalists get wrong about Israel and the Palestinians

Kirsten Powers on Israel and the Palestinians, with my commentary:

What Evangelicals Get Wrong About Israel and the Palestinians
American evangelicals need to realize that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is no battle between good and evil. The more Christian view, far from blind loyalty to Israel, is recognizing the Palestinians’ humanity, says Kirsten Powers.
“Blessed are the peacemakers.”
Sadly, this isn’t Scripture you hear many evangelicals quoting when discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, though Jesus uttered the words in the Sermon on the Mount. Instead of making peace, American evangelicals have mostly picked sides and offered unquestioning, blind loyalty to Israel, with little to no regard for the plight of the Palestinian people.
All of the peacemaking in the Levant since 1948 has been made by Jews wearing IDF uniforms. Negotiation and concessions by Israel to the Palestinians has always led to more violence (i.e. dead Israeli and Palestinian civilians, both killed by Palestinian aggression). Remember the Oslo Accords, and the blood that followed?

Even the successful Camp David accords were ultimately the result of Israeli tanks crossing the Suez canal and IDF encirclement of the Egyptian Third Army. Ariel Sharon, more than Carter and Sadat and Begin, was the real peacemaker.
“Declaring that evangelical Christians are ‘on the front line of defense for Israel in the United States of America,’ the Rev. John Hagee brought delegates to the Christians United for Israel Washington Summit 2012 to their feet with loud cheering and even the sounds of shofars being blown,”The Times of Israelreported in April 2012.
That same month, Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, told NBC News of evangelical support of Israel, “American evangelicals have it in their DNA: God blesses those who bless the Jews and curses whoever curses the Jews.”
During the GOP primary, many evangelicals expressed support for Newt Gingrich, who called Palestinians “invented people.” Someone from a country that is a few hundred years old complaining about “invented” national identities would be comical if the crux of his message weren’t so offensive. Such despicable nonsense is spouted for one reason: to dehumanize Palestinians. After all, if they are just invented, pretend people, then who cares what happens to them?
I care a lot what happens to Palestinians. I want them to stop killing Jews. When they stop that, we can talk about other stuff.
Since when is dehumanizing people—God’s creation—an acceptable Christian view?
Holding a people accountable for their murderous genocidal violence is not to dehumanize them. To excuse their atrocities is to dehumanize them.
On the other side, a smaller number of American Christians have sized Israel up as an apartheid state and support boycotts, divestment campaigns, and other measures aimed at threatening the legitimacy of Israel. They engage in maddening moral equivalency, falsely equating the Israeli government with terrorist organizations.
All moral equivalency– that of Leftie Israel haters and of Kirsten Powers– is morally the same.
Fortunately, some evangelicals are starting to push back at the old paradigm that support for one group requires opposition to the other. Christians who denounce Hamas threats to “burn Israeli cities” also find statements like this alarming: “The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages.” So said Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai this week.
Locker-room talk by a Israeli official when missiles are raining down on his cities is not the same thing as the official government policy of a elected terrorist gang.
It is not Israeli policy to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Actually, Israel recently sent Gaza back to Hamas, which is worse than sending it back to the Middle Ages.

It is official Hamas policy– wildly popular in the Gazan maelstrom of Jew-hatred– to wipe Israel off the map. Presumably that doesn’t mean that they intend to send six million Jews to Miami.

One of the leaders pursuing a different approach is Todd Deatherage, cofounder of Telos Group, an organization that works with American evangelicals to help positively transform the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Deatherage is an expert Middle East hand as well as an evangelical: he was a State Department official in the Bush administration, where he worked on Middle East issues. He was also once an aide to former senator Tim Hutchinson (R-AR).
“What a lot of Christians don’t understand is the importance of realizing both people have legitimate connections to the land.”
The Jews’ connections are to Jewish land. The Palestinians’ connections are to Jewish land.

They have similar aspirations, I guess.
“I strongly support the existence of Israel as a safe and secure homeland for the Jewish people; that is very important,” said Deatherage. “By the same token, I support Palestinian claims to their own state. I support the right of both peoples.”
Palestinians have never had a nation. Do you recall reading of much in the way of “calls for Palestinian Statehood” under the Ottomans? Me neither.

The Jewish people have three millennia of connection to the Levant, and for a millennium they had a great nation. Even in diaspora, the Jewish contributions to mankind have been immeasurable– law and literature and science and theology and arts and Christ.

The Palestinian contribution to mankind has been airline hijacking.
Yes, Israel has every right to want to keep its citizens safe. Hamas sending rockets into Israeli neighborhoods, and as it did Tuesday, blowing up a bus in Tel Aviv, is intolerable. Israel has a right to a state. It has a right to defend itself. It has a right and reason to fear that people are trying to annihilate it, and the U.S. should stand with Israel against those who seek to destroy it. (Yes, I’m talking about you, Iran.) But evangelicals already know that. They just don’t acknowledge that the Palestinians also have rights.
Of course Palestinians have rights. For example, they have the right to vote. They elected terrorists. Hamas and Fatah are acting in their stead. Hamas and Fatah are murderous genocidal anti-Semitic gangs devoted to perpetual war and to the extermination of the Jewish people.

Palestinians exercised their rights. Now they can exercise accountability.
“What a lot of Christians don’t understand is the importance of realizing both people have legitimate connections to the land,” said Deatherage.
So Israel is like the Sudetentland. Palestinians need lebensraum.

Palestinians seem to have considerably more interest in the land that Jews are on than in land of their own. The primary purpose they put to land of their own is to build semtex vest stockpiles and rocket launch sites.
“You don’t have to reconcile them; you have to appreciate that both peoples have legitimate desires to live in dignity and peace.
Israeli peace means co-existence with Palestinians. Palestinian peace means non-existence of Jews.

Other than that, they’re very similar.
A lot of people on both sides want to do that. Both sides have rejectionists who don’t want that.
I am unaware of any faction in Israel that advocates the extermination of Muslim Palestinians as a people.

I am unaware of any substantial faction in the Palestinian territories that does not advocate the extermination of Israeli Jews.
Both sides have read the story to be that the only thing that works is violence; the only thing the other side understands is violence. But there is no military solution to this conflict. This has to be solved through negotiations.”
The “negotiation” approach has been the bloodiest, giving terrorists and Jew-haters time and opportunity to kill… Jews.

Israeli security– which also means Palestinian security, because it prevents war and suicide bombings– has been the basis for all of the peace there has been in the Levant since 1948.
We need a new paradigm. It is possible to be at once pro-Israel, pro-Palestinian, pro-American, and pro-peace.
No it is not. Any more than it is possible to be at once pro-Jewish, pro-Nazi, pro-American, and pro-peace.

Can you pick out the term that doesn’t fit?

No matter what people may claim, the game doesn’t have to be zero-sum. Christians are inclined to see everything as a battle between good and evil.
Not everything is a battle between good and evil. This is, however.
This is a familiar place, an easier paradigm to navigate. But even where evil exists—and it does—basic Christian theology says there is no space in this world that can’t be redeemed by God.
Repentance needs to precede redemption. Yet Palestinian hate of Jews just grows and grows.
Deatherage urges American evangelicals to understand the Palestinian perspective. “Palestinians have a need for dignity and respect, and a deep attachment to the land,” he said. “That is why they will not leave; they are tenacious about staying on their land and that they have their own place. There is a deep attachment to place. The Palestinian Christians who are there are the inheritors of the early church. They have kept the flame of Christianity alive for the last 2,000 years. They are descendants of the first Christians.”
And if those Palestinian Christians will just stop all those rocket attacks and suicide bombings…
Many evangelicals will be shocked to learn there are Palestinian Christians living under Israeli occupation. But that shouldn’t be the reason to care. Regardless of the religion or ethnicity of the people caught up in this conflict, Deatherage said, “There are two peoples with two stories, and if you want to figure out how to be a peacemaker, to take what Jesus said seriously, then it behooves you to be able to listen to the other and ask, “What do I really need to do to be a reconciler in this very broken place?”
Christians would be wise to ponder that important question.

Jews have a Jewish state, as they should.

Palestinians have demonstrated clearly that they neither need nor deserve a state, anymore than gangs like Nazis or Bolsheviks need or deserve a state (did I mention that Palestinians were fervent Nazi supporters in World War II?).

The Palestinian state is Jordan. Egypt may want some of the rabid anti-Semites in Gaza, now that Egypt is a terrorist state itself. There is a fine political solution already in place.

I know that this is an inflammatory thing to say, what the heck: Kirsten Powers is an anti-Semite. Anyone who denies the Jewish people the simple right to self-defense from a rabble fanatically and historically bent on their extermination is expressing plain anti-Semitic views, just as the persistent insistence that black people had no right to resist lynch mobs (Democrat party policy from 1865 to the mid-20th century) was properly interpreted as racism.

There is no moral equivalence whatsoever between Israel and Palestine. Palestinians must not have a state, anymore than Nazis or Bolsheviks should have had a state. There are people whose behavior is so evil that they must never be granted the reigns of power.

The innocent Jews and Muslims murdered and repressed in this conflict are the victims of Islamic savagery, which should never be the charter of a nation.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 6

25th February 2013 at 9:39 am
sangell says:

To be honest, the only place in the region where different people’s have lived in peace is Israel.

Israel’s Arab minority fares better than what the Arabs dish out to each other. Lebanese Civil Wars, Palestinian uprisings in Jordan, Egyptian Muslims committing outrages on Coptic Christians, Palestinian gangs battling each other in Gaza and the West Bank. With the Assad dictatorship crumbling into a ethno-religious bloodbath of the sort that has occured in Iraq since we deposed Saddam. It will likely re-ignite the Lebanese civil wars as well.

Israel is an oasis of civilization amidst the savagery of that region.

Hot debate. What do you think? 9 8

25th February 2013 at 10:25 am
Thunderbird says:

It is all about control of the land by different species of humans; really basically no different than two plant species fighting each other for space; the khazars being regarded as the invasive species.

What to do about it?

I would say the practice of faith, hope, and love could solve the problem, but in a world that practices vanity, envy, and pride the only solution is genocide. But with the world watching this is out of the question so a Mexican standoff is the status quo.

I wonder at all those calling them self Jews if they really are descendants from the tribe of Judah. And if they are, are they practicing the traits of this tribe that is connected with the praise of Jehovah and the care of the temple.

I would think in this day and age of wars and power hungry governments the, tribe of Judah going back to it’s roots would find the peace needed to co-exist with the Palestinians. There is lost Will needing to be healed.

Modern day Jews have been associated with the money changers rather than keepers of the spiritual teachings.

Why does the Palestinian want to kill the Israeli? That is the question that never gets an answer that is shown the world. There is an answer and this answer is the reason for the continued wars and disagreements among peoples. It is about power.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 1

25th February 2013 at 1:20 pm
IndenturedServant says:

I’m just about finished giving a shit about all the inhabitants of the Middle East. I read the book Blood of Lambs and the author spoke about the various factions of Jewish, Muslim and Arab losers living in Lebanon when he was a child in the early 60′s. These people were always committing atrocities against each other. They beat the authors ass on a regular basis when he was forced by his father to get a job at age 7. The Muslim Brotherhood *rescued* him and taught him to smuggle weapons into Israel and later trained him to kill infidels throughout the world while being financed by Saudi benefactors.

I read Horse Soldiers and in it they describe how local Afghans were conscripted by the Taliban to fight for and with the Taliban. When the Americans or Northern alliance defeated the Taliban in a battle, the conscripted survivors were allowed to swear allegiance to the victors, keep their weapons and fight against the Taliban. That is fucking insanity! Can you say fratricide? I knew you could!

Not only that but soon after we liberated Mazar, the Afghans celebrated their freedom for a few minutes before resuming old tribal battles going so far as to try and trick American forces into bombing the shit out of individual buildings by telling them that the Taliban lived there when in fact it was an old family enemy in the place. The fucking dust had not settled from their own liberation and the stupid fuckers picked up old battles right where they had left off years earlier.

On top of all that, it seems like there are ten million factions in the Middle East and every last one of them hates the other. Fuck me! You want to win the war on terror? Just isolate all trade and interaction with these animals and in a few years we can open a real life Flintstones exhibit over there.

Even among the few that manage to live in relative peace with each other, they inflict unimaginable punishments on each other like cutting off limbs, impaling each other on pikes and more. Women and children are abused beyond description and the whole damn mess is condoned by Islam.
I_S

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 9 0

25th February 2013 at 1:35 pm
Zarathustra says:

THEY ONLY WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE IN PEACE…

Palestinian prisoner’s autopsy reveals ‘extensive signs of beatings

Feb 25, 2013

RAMALLAH // The Palestinian Authority yesterday called for a international investigation into the interrogation methods used on Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails following the death of a 30-year-old in custody whose autopsy report that described “extensive signs of beatings” on the body.

The report, by a Palestinian doctor who attended the autopsy yesterday at Israel’s main forensics institute, said the injuries to Arafat Jaradat’s body – that included bruising, signs of lashings and broken ribs – show he died of “shock” and not from a heart attack as the Israeli prison authorities claimed.
“These results prove Israel killed him,” Issa Qaraqaa, the PA’s minister of detainees, told a news conference in Ramallah where he released parts of the report. Earlier in the day he had called for an international investigation to determine if Jaradat had been tortured to death.

Mark Regev, spokesperson for Israel’s prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, declined to comment on the report. “We don’t want to comment until we release the material” from the autopsy to the public, “he said.

More than 3,000 Palestinian prisoners yesterday went on a hunger strike protesting Jaradat’s death while rallies, inspired by four Palestinian prisoners carrying out long-term hunger strikes, escalated in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Also fuelling the unrest have been clashes between Palestinians and Jewish settlers and Israeli security forces, including one on Saturday in which a Palestinian man in the West Bank village of Qusra was shot in the stomach.

In sign of concern over West Bank stability, Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, yesterday sent “an unequivocal demand” to Palestinian leaders to subdue the demonstrations. He also ordered Israeli authorities to hand over January’s tax revenues collected on behalf of Palestinians, in an apparent attempt to shore up the PA’s dire economic state. Israel stopped disbursing PA tax money in response to Palestinian recognition last year as a non-member observer state in the United Nations.
The withholding of that money has exacerbated an acute Palestinian financial crisis and added to the frustration of roughly 150,000 PA employees angered by the West Bank administration’s inability to pay their salaries on time.

Israel’s acting parliamentary speaker warned on Israel Radio yesterday that Israelis “are on the eve of an intifada” and said a resumption of peace negotiations was required to reduce Palestinian frustration.
“I have been warning of this for many months. I know these guys and I see the signs,” Binyamin Ben-Eliezer said. “As someone who has gone through two intifadas, I say this time it will be the bloodiest.”
Frustrated by the squabbling between the factions of Fatah in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip’s Hamas rulers and the lack of progress in resuming in peace talks with Israel that broke down in 2010, Palestinians have rallied in support of prisoners in Israel’s jails. More than 4,800 Palestinians are behind bars in Israeli custody, with 178 of them detained without trial or charge, according to statistics provided by Addameer, a Palestinian NGO concerned with prisoners’ rights.

Jaradat, a father of two, was arrested last week at his home in a village near the city of Hebron for his alleged involvement in a November 2012 stone-throwing incident against an Israeli. Israel’s internal Shin Bet security agency said Israeli doctors examined Jaradat “numerous times” during his interrogation and said he was healthy. But Jaradat fell ill in his cell at Israel’s Meggido prison shortly after midday on Saturday, the Shin Bet said in a statement that added: “Rescue services and a doctor were alerted and treated him, they didn’t succeed in saving his life.”

But Jaradat’s family and Palestinian officials contend he was beaten during his detention. Hassan Abd Rabbo, spokesman for the PA ministry of detainees, said Jaradat told his lawyer of abuse when they met at a military-court hearing on Thursday.

“He said they hit him on his back and his neck, and he said there was pain all over his body,” said Mr Abd Rabbo.

Mourad Jadallah, a legal researcher at Addameer, said the military judge presiding over Thursday’s hearing had ordered a physical and psychological examination of Jaradat before Shin Bet officials could carry out further interrogation.

hnaylor@thenational.ae
* Additional reporting by Associated Press

Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-prisoners-autopsy-reveals-extensive-signs-of-beatings#ixzz2Lwgb8oni

Like or Dislike: 4 3

25th February 2013 at 3:44 pm
sangell says:

And no prisoner in a US prison ever dies of a beating…. adminstered by…inmates because they think or believe them to be a stool pidgeon? Hell, the Palestinians proudly execute ( without trial)
their own and drag the body through the streets when they think they’ve caught a snitch.

Hot debate. What do you think? 8 4

25th February 2013 at 3:55 pm
Zarathustra says:

sangell, you and napari are grasping at straws. There is no defending the indefensible; there are only half truths and lies.

Q: What is the only middle eastern government to attack the US?

A: Israel (on multiple occasions).

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 6

25th February 2013 at 4:12 pm
Stucky says:

Quickie poll #J1.

In general, I LIKE JEWS.

Yes = Thumbs Up
No = Thumbs Down

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 14 6

25th February 2013 at 4:16 pm
Stucky says:

Quickie poll #J2.

In general, I LIKE ISRAEL.

Yes = Thumbs Up
No = Thumbs Down

Hot debate. What do you think? 9 11

25th February 2013 at 4:17 pm
Zarathustra says:

THIS IS TOO EASY…

Street cleaner attacked in TA: ‘They called me ‘stinking Arab’
Israeli Arab admitted to hospital with head wounds says group of drunken Jews assaulted him on seaside promenade. Victim: Jews are like brothers to me
Gilad Morag
Published: 02.24.13, 21:58 / Israel News

Hassan Usruf, an Arab-Israeli man in his 40s who works as a street cleaner for the Tel Aviv Municipality, claimed he was attacked early Sunday morning on the city’s seaside promenade by a group of more than 20 Jewish youth.

The man, who was admitted to the Sourasky Medical Center with injuries to his head, eye socket and jaw, has filed a complaint with Tel Aviv District Police. Investigators are looking into the possibility that the assault was nationalistically-motivated. Police have yet to arrest any suspects, and no eyewitnesses have been found either. Usruf is expected to undergo surgery to his jaw on Monday.

“I was beaten because I’m an Arab,” he told Ynet Thursday evening. “At around 4 am we began working near the Opera House and made our way toward the Dolphinarium. Suddenly a large group (of Jews) approached. ‘You’re an Arab,’ they yelled. ‘You want a state? Is that what you want?’ I told them ‘relax,’ and then they grabbed me and began to hit me. One of them hit me in the head with a bottle. I fell to the ground, and they took turns kicking and hitting me. I shouted, ‘We are all brothers. For me there are no Jews or Arabs.’”

According to Usruf, it was at this point that he felt his life was in danger. “I told myself I would never make it home. They were drunk and beat me because I’m Arab. They were racists,” he recounted. “I tried to run away, but I couldn’t. I was on the ground, alone against 20 people. God loves me so I survived. I’ve been working with Jews for years and they are like brothers to me, but these people were drunken racists.”

Usruf’s nephew told Ynet: “This is very difficult for me emotionally. I grew up with Jews, and when something like this happens it hurts. And it happened in Tel Aviv, which is supposed to be a symbol of coexistence. This shows that such incidents can happen anywhere.”

Like or Dislike: 1 1

25th February 2013 at 4:17 pm
Llpoh says:

Napari – Z doesn’t have an agenda. He simply hates Jews. Don’t read too much into his posts. It all boils down to that one, simple fact. Every post he makes is the same – the Jews are the root of all mankinds problems. He provides lists of the rotten Jews involved, he provides articles documenting people (individuals) getting beaten, with no acknowledgement of “consider the source or circumstance”. He makes up history to fit his hatred. He spends his life dredging up any and all things that can support his position, and balance and logic play no part in any of it. I suspect he must have been in the Hitler youth corp, although I have no proof.

Personally, I think Israel has been very restrained over the years, given they were attacked on the first day of their independence (not second or third or hundreth), and the Arab states have pushed for their destruction every day since. Me, I think I might have taken offense by now, and did something drastic like expel all Palestinians from the occupied territories – air dropping them over Syria and Lebanon and Egypt, for instance if need be, and then totally sealing the borders. But that is just me and what I would do if me and mine were under ongoing attack and threat for decades.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 6

25th February 2013 at 4:38 pm
Zarathustra says:

Llpoh, I have a wager for you. Post a single comment I have ever posted on this site in which I declare hatred for Jewish people. If you can produce one, I will admit my enmity for Jews. If not then you will never gain offer such an accusation and you will apologize for ever having done so. If you refuse to take up this offer, then you are simply a coward and a pussy.

Like or Dislike: 5 2

25th February 2013 at 4:57 pm
Stucky says:

Birthday present idea for Zara: — Ted, the Joo Bear that was on the Oscars last night

Like or Dislike: 3 1

25th February 2013 at 5:04 pm
Zarathustra says:

llpoh

One other thing.

Like or Dislike: 1 1

25th February 2013 at 5:05 pm
Llpoh says:

Z- sorry I mistook all those comments about you naming all those American Jews as being anti-American pawns of Israel, etc., as being “Jew-hating”. My bad. I guess you are too fucking dense to even recognize you are a Jew hater. Take a look back at your posts and comments yourself, dickhead. And I am being polite, as I erased much of this comment before I hit the submit button.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 4

25th February 2013 at 5:49 pm
Llpoh says:

Stuck – ted is not a jew. Ted has no dick. No dick = no circumcision. No circumcision= no Jew.

Like or Dislike: 4 0

25th February 2013 at 5:50 pm
Zarathustra says:

Llpoh, too bad you cannot recognize the obvious. All that zionist programming has obviously affected your ability to think critically. Yes, you are correct. Those American jewish neocons, plus their heretical goyim christian zionist fellow travellers are indeed “Anti-American pawns of Israel.” Furthermore, Israel is our enemy. It is a cancer on the middle east and a dangerous parasite on our country. If it were up to me I would lift the embargoes and sanctions on Iran and transfer them to the “Jewish state…,” immediately after I recalled our ambassador, shuttered our embassy in Tel Aviv, deported all Israeli diplomats in the US and severed diplomatic relations with Israel. That is the ONLY way to destroy the power and influence of the zionist lobbies in the US. Jew hater enough for ya? I guess so if in your addled brain, “Israeli=Jew.”

The wager still stands.prove that I am a Jew hater or admit that you are simply a pussy.

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 4

25th February 2013 at 5:56 pm
Llpoh says:

Oh, and I forgot that Z wanted to target Jews – dual citizens – and take their jobs from them. Just Israelis, of course. Just coincidence that they are Jews, you know. Did not mention any other nationalities, of course. What a load of shit.

I would not give Israel one red cent. But compared to the US, and its activities in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., Israel is a fucking saint. The US is the biggest cancer on the middle east, make no mistake. Next in line are the nations that have waged war on Israel since day one. Israel is not even near the top of the list.

You are totally dense if you cannot see that Jews and Israel are inseparable. What a maroon.

Hot debate. What do you think? 6 4

25th February 2013 at 6:04 pm
Zarathustra says:

“You are totally dense if you cannot see that Jews and Israel are inseparable. What a maroon.”

Oh really…I guess you are unaware the Israel was founded by secular socialists. Llpoh, would you like to comment on the warm welcome Ethopian jews are given in the Jewish state?

It occurs to me that Flash had it right when he termed you “Loopy.”

Hot debate. What do you think? 5 4

25th February 2013 at 6:11 pm
Thunderbird says:

Zarathustra: Would you please define what a Jew is and what an Israeli is? To many people are calling them self Jew that are not real Jews. There are different agendas playing out here and people don’t realize it. Just because someone calls them self a Jew does not mean they are one.

I don’t believe the secular government of Israel is representing the real Jews.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 0

25th February 2013 at 7:10 pm
SSS says:

“On top of all that, it seems like there are ten million factions in the Middle East and every last one of them hates the other. Fuck me! You want to win the war on terror? Just isolate all trade and interaction with these animals and in a few years we can open a real life Flintstones exhibit over there.”
—-Indentured Servant

That may be one of the more accurate, and funny, descriptions of the Middle East I’ve ever read.

I graduated with a double major in 1966, one of which was political science. Without exception, every single solitary analysis of global politics cited the Middle East as the most dangerous region in the world.

Focus on the date ….. 1966. Not the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe. Not East Asia with Red China and North Korea and North Vietnam. Not the totally unsettled continent of Africa which had many civil wars and numerous countries throwing off the yoke of Western colonialism. No, it was the Middle East.

I never forgot that. I believed it then, and I believe it now more than ever. It’s a fucking powder keg, and one day it’s gonna blow up.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 0

25th February 2013 at 7:21 pm
Administrator says:

SSS’ other major was lesbian studies.

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25th February 2013 at 7:25 pm
Zarathustra says:

Thunderbird, I am not an authority on Judaism. From what I know, there are mainly three branches. Modern Israel is dominated by Ashkenazi jews (European) jews, most of whom originate from Russia and various northern european countries. Although they trace their ancestry back to the ancient Levant, few of them look remotely middle eastern or “semitic.” Then there are the Sephardic jews, who come from Spain and Portugal and most of whom followed the Moors to North Africa after the Muslims were defeated, fearing persecution from christians. The other main branch are the Mizrahi, who are the descendents of the Babylonian captivity, most of which, instead of returning to Israel, settled in Iran, Iraq, Syria and other middle eastern countries, including the area known as Palestine. Many palestianians today are descended from Mizrahi jews who over the centuries converted to Islam, or Christianity. The simple truth is that those palestianians who are not descended from nomadic tribes are most likely more closely related to the ancient Israelites than are the Ashkenazi.

Like or Dislike: 4 1

25th February 2013 at 7:29 pm
Llpoh says:

Could it be that Ethiopian Jews are black? And maybe they are being discriminated against because of that? Are they denied right of entry? Guess not. Lots of fucked up shit in the world.

Again, I repeat – the US should not support Israel financially. Or any mid- eastern nation.

The continued involvement in the mideast does nothing to better the situation – they crazier than hoot owls, with some exceptions. The Israelis are not crazy, but are desperate. Let the chips fall where they may.

Like or Dislike: 4 1

25th February 2013 at 7:30 pm
Bostonbob says:

Stucky,
I am sorry I am late on this, but that is some funny shit.
Thank you,
Bob.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

25th February 2013 at 7:40 pm
napari says:

Llpoh: Personally, I think Israel has been very restrained over the years, given they were attacked on the first day of their independence (not second or third or hundreth), and the Arab states have pushed for their destruction every day since. Me, I think I might have taken offense by now, and did something drastic like expel all Palestinians from the occupied territories – air dropping them over Syria and Lebanon and Egypt, for instance if need be, and then totally sealing the borders. But that is just me and what I would do if me and mine were under ongoing attack and threat for decades.

I try to be civil but after a lifetime of bullshit and illogic from the arabs and Palestinians I’ll 2nd this motion! boot them the fuck outa Israel and watch the show as Arab tribes all kill each other so the blood lines wont get contaminated with Palestinian DNA!

Hot debate. What do you think? 6 3

25th February 2013 at 7:42 pm
napari says:

Zara,
Its good thing I dont know how to begin posts! I have a mountain of material exposing bold face lies coming out of the middle east.
Someone out there cue me in plz…
Admin I promise I wouldnt flood your domain and all posts would be factual and verifiable!

Like or Dislike: 2 2

25th February 2013 at 7:51 pm
napari says:

Zarathustra said:
THIS IS TOO EASY…

Street cleaner attacked in TA: ‘They called me ‘stinking Arab’
Israeli Arab admitted to hospital with head wounds says group of drunken Jews assaulted him on seaside promenade. Victim: Jews are like brothers to me

This is the same bullshit week after week. Its an allegation with zero proof! and you post it like its true. You never fact check anything which is why I’m all over your bullshit posts.

Like or Dislike: 1 3

25th February 2013 at 7:58 pm
Zarathustra says:

I’ll just throw this out. Prior to the creation of the modern state of Israel, Arabs (defined as those who speak the arabic language), Christians, Jews and other religious minorities, lived in relative peace for many centuries.

I do acknowledge the historic inter-tribal hated among Arabs, which was well depicted in the great film, Lawrence of Arabia.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

25th February 2013 at 8:01 pm
Thunderbird says:

There is an organic hatred going on in the middle east and that is why the US needs to stay out of it. The only man made solution seems to be genocide. But that doesn’t say much for man except that this solution is well played out in the plant kingdom and seems to work well.

How did we start to believe that we humans are of a higher order than the plants when we can plainly see that there is much more harmony in the plant kingdom than in human society?

Like or Dislike: 0 0

25th February 2013 at 8:02 pm
Zarathustra says:

Napari, I am sometimes too lazy to post links to articles. That particular one is from Ynet, an Israeli newspaper. Dare me to prove it and I will.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

25th February 2013 at 8:03 pm
matt says:

I thought SSS other major was making baskets with hemp.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

25th February 2013 at 8:10 pm
Thunderbird says:

Zarathustra:

Could it be possible that the Ashkenazi Jews do not have roots back to Abraham, Issac, and Jacob and are not of the tribe of Judah and that is where the main contention lays? These Jews are really converts from another culture?

Like or Dislike: 1 0

25th February 2013 at 8:12 pm
Llpoh says:

I am a Native American. I think I want my country back, and whitey and all sundry can go fuck off back to whereever they fucking came from. Maybe I should start building suicide belts and blowing up whitey whenever I think it suits me. And maybe I should start firing rockets off the rez 24/7 into Detroit (scratch that, it needs to be somewhere the damage would be noticed, say perhaps Manhattan).

I wonder just how long the US government would let me wage war from my rez, without invading? How many rockets do you think I would get off? Do you think they would build a wall around the rez and tell me to be a good boy? Do you think they would let trucks bring in supplies? Weapons?

Horseshit – it would be all over red rover in a fucking heartbeat. And the US govt would tell anyone who stuck their noses in (say the UN) to go fuck themselves.

Another good analogy would be if Mexico started shooting rockets at El Paso by the THOUSANDS. How long would the US let that shit happen?

The Israelis have shown remarkable restraint.

Like or Dislike: 4 0

25th February 2013 at 8:13 pm
Zarathustra says:

Thunderbird, I have no basis to deny Ashkenazi historic roots in “palestine.” That said, clearly whatever biological roots they share with ancient Jews have been severely diluted by two millenia of interbreeding with Europeans. Look at Michael Oren (Israel’s ambassador to the US), Netanyahu or any of the Rothschilds (to name just a few) and tell me with a straight face that they look even remotely middle eastern.

Out of curiosity I did a bit of reading. It seems back in the 11th century, Ashkenazi made up just 3% of world Jewry (I have no idea how they managed to come up with that figure), but they constitute the majority today. The second largest Jewish demographic in Israel today are Sephardic and they do indeed have a mediterranean appearance (big noses, olive skin, dark hair, etc.).

Like or Dislike: 1 0

25th February 2013 at 8:22 pm
Zarathustra says:

Llpoh, Manhattan was purchased. Bad example. Go conquer Oklahoma. Oh wait, nobody with any sense would want it.

Like or Dislike: 2 2

25th February 2013 at 8:30 pm
napari says:

Zarathustra,
Prove it dude….laziness is not a virtue. If your going to do something do it right! These half ass posts of yours that you never cross refrence for accuracy are stale.

Like or Dislike: 1 2

25th February 2013 at 8:37 pm
sangell says:

If there is one thing everybody in the world has it is ‘old maps’ that show they once owned or controlled a piece of territory. Might be as small as an old plot map for a family farm or something as big as the British Empire but everybody’s got one.

Maybe your great grandfather squandered the old mansion away or some great army kicked your civilization off of ‘your’ land you can’t turn the clock back. Life goes on and ‘real’ history begins the day your are born. I’m no spring chicken but, on my maps, Israel has always been there. Given the demographics of the former Egyptian territory of Gaza and the former Jordanian territory of the West Bank where the median age is about 9 the majority of the people can’t even recall the time they were Egyptian and Jordanian citizens. They were NEVER Palestinians except in their own minds.

There was a Civil War general, I believe, who said, Victory goes to those who get ” there firstest with the mostest”, and in the case of Israel, it looks that went to modern day Israelis. 100 years from now, who knows, but if you are going to try and push them off the land they now hold violently then you can cry if they push you back harder and take what you have left.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

25th February 2013 at 8:40 pm
Thunderbird says:

Zarathustra:

Good answer. As far as I can find out after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD the tribes were scattered all over the face of the earth and only a few of the tribe of Judah (Jews) kept their family line pure. From what I have read only about 5 million Jews were known to exist in 1940. Many who call themselves Jews today have very diluted family lines or are converts.

In the Middle East it seems that family roots are a big thing. In America where family roots are so diluted and many can’t trace their family lines back more than five or six generations this is not a big thing. This is why I feel America needs to stay out of this feud. In this country when someone tells you they are a Jew take it as the faith they are following; not their family line, because chances are they have no family ties going back to the tribe of Judah.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

25th February 2013 at 8:56 pm
Thunderbird says:

Sangell: The law of the invasive species. It is a Law in nature. Just look at all the invasive species coming into America? Weapons of war are nothing more than the military version of “Round Up.” Round Up works until you run out of it.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

25th February 2013 at 9:05 pm
Zarathustra says:

Napari, just for you, bro:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4348896,00.html

Do you really think I would comment on Iranian or Israeli affairs if I didn’t keep abreast with what is actually going on there? (and I don’t mean from CNN, FOX or even Al Jazeera).

Like or Dislike: 0 0

25th February 2013 at 9:08 pm
Novista says:

llpoh

Recommendation for you:

http://www.amazon.com/Sovereignty-Matters-Contestation-Self-Determination-Contemporary/dp/0803262515/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1361843879&sr=8-6&keywords=joanne+barker

The first article in the collection by Taiaiake Alfred, particularly, and the discussion of ‘sovereignty’ from both principle of law and the political history vis-a-vis the European traditions. The key decision of Chief Justice John Marshall’s “doctrine of discovery” shaped the discourse ever since.

I bought the book specially for some commentary on the Samoan situation but that first article is well reasoned, worth a look.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

25th February 2013 at 9:11 pm
Zarathustra says:

Thunderbird, It is not correct that all Jews fled after the Roman crushing of the Jewish revolt in 70 AD. The capital of the Galilee, Sepphoris, for example, was spared because it’s population remained loyal to Rome (in part for commercial reasons and in part because they had been exposed to greco-roman culture to such an extent that they had become more Roman than Jewish). An interesting footnote is the Sepphoris is located within an easy walk from Nazareth and was being extensively rebuilt under Herod at the time when Jesus was a young man, which leads to the fairly obvious notion that he would have made the commute as an artisan to work for good wages in Sepphoris, rather than eke out a bare subsistance building sheep pens (or whatever), for poor Jews in Nazareth.

This is a big reason Jerusalem is claimed by so many. From ancient times until the present, it was divided into quarters, one in habited by Jews, another by Christians and another by Muslims (who made up the fourth quarter?). Oh well, you get the point.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

25th February 2013 at 9:19 pm
sangell says:

Most American Jews disgust me. I’d rather ‘our’ Jews move to Israeli and practice what they preach and the Israeli’s come to the US and show us how to live.

An American Jew would fight to the last man… in Wyoming or Idaho… to defend this country but before he would soil his soft and putty like hand with a rifle he would contribute to whichever political party would allow him to avoid the trouble. The Israeli Jew. Why he would be the first to cry to take arms. Its really amazing how a dirt bag like Chuck Schumer who should have been sent up the Chimneys of Auschwitz, can call for Americans to be disarmed as he wave his puny arms about with an assault rifle he tells us every Israeli is entitled to. The rotten Jewess Dianne Feinstein packed her own heat when her life was on the line as a young politician in San Francisco and liberal lunatics were armed and out of control but she only wants to disarm some Anglo in Ukiah. Fuck those kikes. Burn em.

Like or Dislike: 3 2

25th February 2013 at 10:40 pm
SSS says:

“I graduated with a double major in 1966, one of which was political science ……. blah, blah, blah and blah, blah, blah.”
—-SSS

“SSS’ other major was lesbian studies.”
—-Admin

Note to self. In the future, please try to refrain from setting yourself up for the following.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 5 0

25th February 2013 at 11:29 pm
Bruce says:

Lipoh,

“Another good analogy would be if Mexico started shooting rockets at El Paso by the THOUSANDS. How long would the US let that shit happen?”
………………………………………………………………………………………………
In the USA what would happen depends on the how the Bankers and the Military-Security-Police State Complex wants to have it handled and how they decide what the response will be from their (not our) Government.

There is a great deal of profit to be earned in long drawn out peace negations giving cover for the business of long drawn out conflicts. There is no end of money to be made by building walls, installations, supporting and arming troops, security equipment and more to hold things together while doomed phony peace negations go on and on carried out by dupes and con men. All this while fuel to fan the flames is constantly added in just the right amounts to maintain manageable instability and continued funding.

As it stands Mexico invades our borders regularly with Narco Terrorists. Narco Thugs who during their careers probably both indirectly and directly kill or harm more people per capita than the average Middle East, Israeli or Palestinian terrorist.

Violence rages just below and right at our border. Millions of Mexicans cross into the USA illegally. Could the USA stop the Drug Thug invasion and the hordes of illegals? Yes we could. But we won’t. Most of the illegal Mexicans are good low payed workers, helpful to political party agendas and while many may not pay income tax they do pay for rent, food, clothing and grease the tills at WallyWorld who grease the Chinese. (but that’s a whole different banker scam). And we even send guns to the Banker supported drug cartels through covert government programs.

Our government does not want to stop the drug trade. They manage it for PTB interests. Why? Because the drug trade means huge profits to the Bankers who handle the Mega Billions in Narco Dollars that only big Banks could launder, hide, cover and transform into legitimate fake fiat funds. The agency’s, police, para military forces and armed forces on both sides of the fence are pawns used to supposedly fight the drug wars that create jobs and additional PTB cash flows on top of the drug profits. Even better all the people, arms, and infrastructure to fight the never ending Drug Wars are payed for by the tax payer and by taxpayer debt that is created and controlled by the Banks for the Banks and that of connected individuals.

If a Palestinian – Israeli type conflict could be organized and implemented for substantial profit it would be. And It would go on and on as long as the money flows or an even better racket is developed. In a way we have that set up already anyway. The Drug Wars evolving the USA and Mexico are more or less the same thing as the endless Palestinian – Israeli quagmire. They are both long term business models just with some different features.

If some goofy ass Mexican group fires a few rockets across the Rio Grande they will simply be squashed by either US or Mexican troops if they are not under some plan the PTB cooked up. If they are being used or directly controlled by the PTB then no one will ever stop them. Even with billions spent in taxpayer debt for security and protection measures the rockets will fly when ever it’s time for some cash flow stimulation.

Like or Dislike: 4 0

25th February 2013 at 12:11 am
Zarathustra says:

An interesting factoid, not sure if it’s coincidence or has some other significance, but I looked up Sepphoris using Google earth and checked out some of the photos people have uploaded. One shows an elaborate mosaic. In this mosaic there is a depiction of a Lion killing a Bull, an image that is very similar to the same one that, in multiple places, adorns the palace of Persepolis in Iran. I am told that it is a metaphor for winter being overtaken by spring, but the connection is not obvious to me.

What piques my curiosity is the possibility that this is visual evidence of the ancient connection of Zoroastrianism, as a father religion, to Judaism, which is a subject that I have spent some time studying, in the past. At one point, when I felt I knew what I was talking about, I ventured into a Jewish messageboard and started a thread about it. One Jewish guy didn’t argue with me but told me his opinion was that God revealed himself to two peoples, the Israelites and the Persians.

Jews were exposed to Zoroastrianism after Cyrus liberated them from Babylon, which occured before the Torah was expressed in written form. Cyrus is also the guy who commissioned the second temple in Jerusalem, as is recounted in the Book of Ezra.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

25th February 2013 at 1:43 am
napari says:

Napari, just for you, bro:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4348896,00.html

Do you really think I would comment on Iranian or Israeli affairs if I didn’t keep abreast with what is actually going on there? (and I don’t mean from CNN, FOX or even Al Jazeera).

That doesnt prove anything except that your a gullible idiot. It is an allegation by one person with no evidence and no suspects and no arrests. Get it”"”

Like or Dislike: 0 1

25th February 2013 at 2:32 am
Llpoh says:

Manhattan was not sold. No evidence exists. And best guess the Indians would have considered any payment as rental money and not a sale as such – right of use only.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

25th February 2013 at 2:36 am
Zarathustra says:

Napari, I really don’t think you are remotely interested the truth about the Israel/Palestinian conflict. You would rather just hurl non-sequiturs laden with insults in order to hide behind your comfortable delusions.

In the unlikely event that I am mistaken, listen to Phillip Weiss. Weiss is a respected journalist, a specialist in middle eastern affairs and a Jew. He was a guest the other day on the Scott Horton radio show.

http://scotthorton.org/2013/02/23/22213-philip-weiss/

I have another extremely informative recent interview with Dr. Muhammad Sahimi, an Iranian-born professor of chemical engineering at the University of Southern California, who writes extensively about Iranian politics and the conflict with Israel. When reading or listening to Iranian expats, one has to pick them carefully as some have personal axes to grind, especially those formerly associated with the Shah’s government. In Sahimi’s case, I have read a great many of his articles and I am attracted to him because I invariably find myself in perfect agreement with him. I won’t post his most recent hour long interview today, because it is a bit off topic for the purposes of this thread, but when the time is right, I will.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

25th February 2013 at 3:52 am
SVarghese says:

Zarathustra – what do you think israel should do?

1. Return the whole land to the Arabs and get themselves scattered all over the world. If that is legitimate, then will the whole land of America be returned to the Indians?
2. Return the lands conquered in 1967, but then it was Egypt, Syria and Jordan who started it all. So why should the defender not be allowed to keep the land of its aggressor when the aggressor has lost the war?

There might be other options, but now what happened in 1948 has happened and it cannot be reversed. What happened in 1967 was the mistake of those who started the war and it also should not be reversed.

The best way is to integrate the Jewish and Arab populations of Israel but then with the Arabs carrying machine guns and rockets and firing them on Israeli civilians, I think integration even if possible is a very very long time from now.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

25th February 2013 at 4:21 am
napari says:

This is a great opportunity to lay out to reasonable people the futility of discussing anything with hate mongers like Galloway and Zarathustra.
I rather fancy George Galloway and Zarathustra to be much alike. Galloway spent 50 minutes yapping about a score of different subjects yet the theme of the show was supposed to be about how Gallowway “doesn’t recognize Israel”! Galloway walked out on a debate claiming he doesn’t recognize Israelie’s and positions himself as the victor. I see Galloway as a coward who can’t debate because he has no facts! Galloway is an empty barrel making a lot of noise and deals in innuendo.
If one reviews this thread Zarathustra talks about a score of different subjects posts an article from ynet that makes unsubstantiated allegations then claims I don’t want to know the truth! I have no doubt Zarathustra is primed to not only proclaim victory over napari but that he also proved it. If Zarathustra had an informative article why didnt he post that instead of that idiot Galloway??
Galloway and Zarathustra must be clones as there both empty barrels making a lot of noise and both deal in innuendo.
Zarathustra, WHERE ARE THE FACTS you hate monger?

Like or Dislike: 2 0

25th February 2013 at 8:02 am
Stucky says:

So the #J1 and #J2 polls show that 19 people like either Jews or Israel, and 17 people do not.

A pretty even split. I can’t think of any other topic so evenly split. We are usually all-in or -all-against a topic, with a few stragglers stirring the pot.

I can’t think of any other topic so heated, where each side calls the other side “haters” or “deluded”. It is ironic that we, ourselves, are just as extreme as the extremists “over there”. haha

Like or Dislike: 1 0

25th February 2013 at 10:19 am
Stucky says:

How is it that the Jews have survived against all odds?

I would love for all of us here to be transported back to 2,000 years BC — but without the knowledge of history to come. What would we have said of this old man from Ur, Abrahm, and his tiny family caravan as they left the grandeur of Mesopotamia and crossed the desert in search of a promised land? Would be all not have said to him, “You’re fucked!”?

“The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed; and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other people have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?”
——— Mark Twain

Over 300 years ago, King Louis XIV of France asked Blaise Pascal, the great Christian philosopher, to give him proof of God. Pascal answered, “Why the Jews, your Majesty, the Jews!”

Like or Dislike: 3 0

25th February 2013 at 10:36 am
Eddie says:

I stay away from these threads, because I have very mixed feelings about Israel and the occupied territories, and about the Palestinians. I tend to agree with those who say that it isn’t our fight to be in, but since it’s all about the oil and the evil empire, I know we’ll be there until the last drop is pumped from the region, or the nukes turn the sand into glass.

I admire many things about what I know of American Jewish culture and family life, but I generally don’t like separatist religions that you have to be born into, and I like a clear separation of church and state, which Israel will never truly have, imho. (Nor would a Palestinian state, if one were to be formed).

Michael Chabon wrote a good novel in which the Jewish State was formed in the US instead of the Middle East, called the Yiddish Policeman’s Union. Maybe that wouldn’t have been a bad idea, in retrospect. We should have let the Jews have Detroit.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

25th February 2013 at 11:05 am
Stucky says:

“We should have let the Jews have Detroit.” ——– Eddie

But they already have New York, Washington, Hollywood ….. oh, nevermind.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 0

25th February 2013 at 11:22 am
napari says:

Michael Chabon wrote a good novel in which the Jewish State was formed in the US instead of the Middle East, called the Yiddish Policeman’s Union. Maybe that wouldn’t have been a bad idea, in retrospect. We should have let the Jews have Detroit.

There could be no better solution for the once great and fabulous Detroit now turned shithole than to give control to the jews. The jews would return Detroit back to a marvel of prosperity & splendor that Detroit once was!
On the other hand one has to wonder what the Palestinians would produce??
Why not let the Palestinians have a hand at it?

Like or Dislike: 3 2

25th February 2013 at 11:26 am
Zarathustra says:

Oxford in uproar over union motion to boycott Israel

Threatening emails, accusations of racism and walkout by George Galloway follow motion at students’ union

The Observer, Saturday 23 February 2013 14.29 EST

Students at Oxford University will this week vote on a controversial motion to boycott Israel, after a tumultuous week that has seen hate mail, accusations of racism and a furious exit from a debate by MP George Galloway .

The Oxford University Students’ Union (OUSU) meets on Wednesday to decide finally on a motion backing the boycott of Israel, its companies and institutions. The motion, which would be tabled at the National Union of Students conference in Sheffield in April, calls on the student body to join the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement, in protest at Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and its hindrance of attempts to create a Palestinian state.

Both the proposer and the seconder of the motion have received threatening emails: the seconder has withdrawn his support and the proposer has requested that her name not be publicised.

Last Wednesday, Galloway, MP for Bradford West, walked out of a debate at Christ Church College. Galloway arrived 90 minutes late, delivered a speech condemning Israel and then interrupted a reply being made by Eylon Aslan-Levy, a student at Brasenose College.

“You said ‘we’. Are you an Israeli?” Galloway asked. When Aslan-Levy said he was, Galloway walked out. “I don’t recognise Israel and I don’t debate with Israelis,” he said, to gasps of surprise and mutters of “racism”.

Mahmood Naji of Christ Church College, who had invited the MP, said: “He agreed to a debate and I though he would welcome open dialogue. I was amazed. He left because he wanted to make a statement. His main interest was demonstrating that he supported the boycott movement.”

The BDS movement urges a boycott of Israeli exports, including vegetables, fruit and Dead Sea beauty products, and of firms that do business in Israel, such as Caterpillar, security firm G4S and waste management company Veolia. Some BDS supporters have also disrupted cultural events involving Israeli performers.

Last week, OUSU gave the colleges a further two weeks to debate the issue after most failed to come to a decision.

Henry Watson of Magdalen College said the atmosphere at the university was fraught: “People thought it was a question of supporting Israel or Palestine or supporting peace. The boycott goes against everything the university stands for. The idea that we are not going to read your books or articles or hear your arguments on the basis of your nationality is ridiculous.”

Magdalen College voted 39-3 against the motion, Watson said.

Aslan-Levy, who was born and brought up in Britain, said he is keen for the Palestinian conflict to be settled diplomatically and disagrees with the settler movement and its representatives, such as Dani Dayan, who spoke at the union last Friday. “In a lot of colleges, students are concerned about OUSU making foreign policy,” he said. “In my college, the only argument was whether the motion was rejected or the college abstained. The college voted 20-15 to reject the motion.”

Dani Dayan, chairman of the Israeli settlers’ council, Yesha, was at the union to debate the question, “Settlers: War Criminals or Patriots?” for a debate to be broadcast on al-Jazeera in April. Al-Jazeera had hired security guards, but Dayan was booed once and given polite applause.

Not all students have immersed themselves in this debate. The Oxford Student newspaper reported that a member of the Bullingdon Club was fined for setting off a firework at a nightclub earlier this month. According to the paper, the student was accepted into the club after an initiation ceremony which included burning a £50 note in front of a tramp.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

25th February 2013 at 6:00 pm

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