First of all I am an Agnostic, but one who is open to some Christian beliefs. Second, I do NOT want this to become a debate whether or not God exists. So, you rabid atheists can go pound salt. But feel free to participate if you can suspend your disbelief momentarily, and accept the premise, “God is.”
I have pondered the idea of whether or not God blesses nations for decades, even before I wandered away from the faith. What brought the idea back to my mind’s eye more forcibly again was Obama’s recent trip to Israel. He closed his ridiculous pontificating with, “May God bless you. May God bless Israel. May God bless the United States of America”. (To hell with the mooslims, I guess.) Obamadevil calls upon God to bless America constantly. Will God answer, “OK!”?
According to Barna Research about half of all Americans consider themselves “born again”. I know how these people think. They believe God is involved in all things America; from its past glory to its future redemption. Perhaps that’s why we have so many sheeple …. it’s pretty damn easy and convenient to not do anything when you believe that God will sort everything out.
I’m not going to examine the hundreds of applicable scripture verses. (Thank God!!) Just two of the more popular ones will suffice. It sure seems like God, indeed, blesses America.
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“Blessed is the Nation Whose God is the Lord” ———— Psalm 33:12
“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” ———— 2 Chronicles 7:14:
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The other side of the coin question is, “Does God curse nations?” Various born-again preachers have pronounced that God has cursed America for a variety of “sins”. Jerry Falwell said God cursed America because of abortions. Others give popular reasons such as; Sodom and Gomorrah-like promiscuity, taking prayer out of schools, homosexuality, worshipping money, and, well … the list is nearly endless. Like, this one from Pat Robertson, who after Haiti’s devastating earthquake said it was God’s curse on Haiti …. for getting rid of the French!! You can’t make this shit up. (I know for a FACT that God hates Frenchies. It’s in the Bible. One of God’s plagues upon Pharaoh was what? Froggies!!! Case closed. )
“Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French … and they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, ‘We will serve you if you’ll get us free from the French.’ True story. And the devil said, ‘OK, it’s a deal.’ Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after another.”
Again …. from the perspective of a non-believer, talk of God cursing or blessing people or nations is absurd. But for genuine Christian believers … (those who believe the Bible) … there is nothing absurd about the idea of God blessing or cursing nations.
Some believe the Founding Fathers established a Christian nation, which God then blessed. For example, John Adams cautioned that our government is wholly inadequate for a people who are not moral and religious. However, the degree of liberty Americans have enjoyed is dependent on a government that treads lightly … not on a certain group of people praying on their knees. Adams believed a government can tread lightly without inviting chaos and license only in a society where the majority of the people obey the law voluntarily, not simply from fear of punishment. His error was that he believed only Christians can obey laws voluntarily because only they are aware of their accountability to a Higher Transcendent Moral Order (God) for the way in which they live their lives.
Even if Adams was right, what does it actually mean to ask God to bless America? What “America”? Is it a piece of geography? If we invade Mexico and basically exterminate them (like we did Native American Indians) does that mean God blessed America … even though most all of Mexico is also Christian? Aren’t we asking God to treat America better than other nations, especially other Christian nations? Why would He do that? On what basis?
I think the story of Sodom & Gomorrah better exemplifies what most Americans think God’s Blessing means. Abraham was able to bargain with God to spare the city. God agreed to spare the city if even only 10 righteous souls were found therein. Archaeological evidence suggests the population to have been around 1,000 souls, give or take a few hundred. So, it’s safe to say God would have spared S&G if the righteous in the city was only 1%. Yes, that is the Christian hope for America. The verse from Chronicles listed above is often used as further proof for it reads … ““If MY people, who are called by MY name …”. You see, it doesn’t matter how many heathens inhabit America. As long as the REAL Christians, even if they number as few as 1%, turn to the Lord we shall all be blessed.
Unfortunately, this belief ignores a pretty major biblical truism; GOD HATES COMPETITION. This pretty much puts the U.S. Constitution at odds with the Biblical command to put God first. We pride ourselves (rightfully so) regarding our religious liberties; Christians, Mooslims, Joos, Buddhists, Satanists, Atheists … ALL are welcomed in this land, a land Christians expect God to bless.
Now put on your thinking caps and recall your Old Testament knowledge. Recall stories such as when the Jews left Egypt and very shortly thereafter worshipped a Golden Calf. Did that please God’s multi-cultural heart, or did he strike dead 3,000 Joos on the spot? Please tell me the number of times God says; “Oh, yeah. You wanna let any religion into the land of Israel? Sure, I’m cool with that!”. Did you come up with …. zero? Good for you. BTW, Jesus was even less tolerant, casting forth curses and promises of hellfire to even Joos who didn’t believe his story. So, people can claim this is a Christian nation until they are blue in the face. But when one looks at the ONLY nation in the Bible ever called “God’s people”, and the requirements thereof, then you will see America is no more Christian than Outer Mongolia, and both nations can expect similar “blessings”. None.
To which a Christian might respond; “Well, so what! Whether or not God blesses nations is irrelevant. God can and will continue to bless ME, no matter where I live!!” I won’t argue with you. I just hope for your sake that you do not equate biblical blessings with American prosperity; your mortgaged house, your cars, your toys, your job, and even your security; do you think God will send down angels to minister to you? Why, you? Wouldn’t God owe an apology to the millions who have died a martyrs’ death? So, as God looked down as Roman lions ripped into the flesh of a first century Christian perhaps He thought to himself; “Sorry Zachariah. That’s got to hurt! Haha. But, don’t worry, I’m gonna bless Mary Jones in Iowa in a couple thousand years. She’s Amurrican, ya know! I owe it to her.”
Here’s what I believe. America is on its own. YOU are on your own. God isn’t going to save you from the coming destruction. Go ahead and trust God to send your soul to heaven, but here on earth you alone better take care of your sorry ass.
Nonanonymous
You are a condescending know-it-all prick in this thread.
You are a condescending know-it-all prick in the “Available” thread.
I’m done with you. Go “debate” with someone else.
Your soul is enclosed in your body (in your pineal gland, and possibly your heart, which never stops beating, by the way, think about that sometime). When you die, it leaves through your mouth. If you’ve never seen anyone die, you’ll have to trust me on that one. It leaves through your mouth, I’ve seen it happen many times.
In the meantime, there are billions of dark matter particles coursing through your body right now, making you look rather hollow on the subatomic level. God does indeed have physical communication with you (but you do have free will). All prayers are heard. How else would God design a universe, an amazing universe as Stucky so eloquently described above. God is a much larger presence than any other factor in the universe (via dark matter). Get used to it.
“Dark matter, say physicists, is everywhere. They say this because the gravitational forces that we observe in the known Universe are greater than the mass of visible matter would lead us to believe is possible. Dark matter, scientists speculate, is the source of the missing mass; in fact, by some estimates, dark matter accounts for at least 80% of the mass in our galaxy.
So where the Hell is it?
The short answer is: we don’t know, but logic dictates that we’d basically have to be swimming in anything so abundant; there are likely billions upon billions of dark matter particles passing through your body at this very second. But how many of these particles could actually affect you?”
Jamie Dimon is 100% dark matter.
God is a power greater than ourselves. You don’t have to be religious to understand that. We, as humans, are so limited. We perceive our world through six senses wired to our brain, and can only perceive three dimensions.
String theory hypothesizes the existence of at least twelve dimensions, and an infinite number of universes. So, there are up to eight difference dimensions that God can exist (if you don’t believe he exists in the three we can perceive). Our souls can communicate with other dimensions; if you’ve ever done meditation, you will understand what I mean. There is one dimension of pure light, pure love and energy, which is attainable with minimal meditative practice and spiritual focus.
When some people tap into this energy, love and light, they can’t handle it and go crazy. The bottom line is, it’s there, always, waiting for us to seek it out. God holds out his hand, but you have to seek it. Because we can’t see God, or the great power, doesn’t mean it isn’t there, and it’s simple enough to get in touch with it, just meditate. We all have a spark of God in us (our soul). What a shame people waste their whole life never getting in touch with this power, using this power, and all it has to offer. The power awaits. Use it.
A soul is a terrible thing to waste.
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There are also billions of neutrinos passing thru your body every minute, AWD
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What empire has God ever saved??
Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert (Now Ramm Dass) and others at Harvard experimented with hallucinogenic drugs in the 60’s to access other dimensions, and they claim to have seen God in these other dimensions. Ramm Dass taught me everything I know about meditation (via his writings)
Our brains are amazing, and we still understand little about them. They are electromagnetic wave generators, among other things. When you meditate (or take hallucinogens) your brain waves change significantly as you tap into larger sources of energy/spirit. Maybe try it some time (oh, that sounds hard, like exercise), or just stay ignorant to possibility.
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“What empire has God ever saved??”
God is all the time having to save the Jews, his chosen people.
Interesting conversation you started during Holy Week Stuck.
This can be complicated, or it can be simple. I choose simple.
Evil is the absence of God.
We have plenty of evil these days, don’t we? I look at our culture, our political and private institutions and I see evil everywhere.
God has left us – mainly because we kicked Him to the curb.
That was our country’s choice. Doesn’t really matter if it was intentional or unintentional, does it?
Freedom is not a goal in and of itself. Rather, It’s the freedom to pursue virtue that is granted by God we enshrined in our Constitution.
America removed goodness when we removed God from our midst. Now that He is gone, evil filled the void.
Nature always fills the void, doesn’t it?
AWD said
“God is a power greater than ourselves. You don’t have to be religious to understand that.”
And
“Your soul is enclosed in your body (in your pineal gland, and possibly your heart, which never stops beating, by the way, think about that sometime). When you die, it leaves through your mouth. If you’ve never seen anyone die, you’ll have to trust me on that one. It leaves through your mouth, I’ve seen it happen many times. ”
Both of those comments (in their entirety, not just the parts I cut and pasted) are quite eloquent. Very well said.
(Applause).
The idea that God blesses people irrespective of where they live is a grave fallacy. I have heard this argument from several of my Christian friends. God will provide… Christians are not supposed to associate with wicked people in any way. The command “to be in the world” is not to be interpreted as a license to intermingle with unholy people and take part in their sins. Christians in America should at the very least:
1. not serve in the US military or law enforcement
2. not consume any of the depraved entertainment products, movies, music, etc
3. minimize their economic dependency on the industrial economy
4. not live close to densely populated areas
Today American Christians’ lives are for the most part indistinguishable from the general culture. They should expect to suffer the same fate as their neighbors. The writing is on the wall.
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“Stucky says:
“ … and later the United States (Manasseh) became a great nation.” —— ditchner
From Egypt in 5,000BC to America today …. We’re all lost Jews!!! That’s quite a stretch.
How many Jewish Pilgrims (haha) were on the Mayflower? Or, in the colonies before that? None, right?
The Jewish website below states that the first Jew came from BRAZIL. And that there was no significant Jewish population in the USA until the early/mid 1800’s. Your “Manassseh” stuff is waaaay out in left field.”
Manasseh was NOT a Jew. He was NOT of the line of Judah. Even Judah was NOT a Jew as that term did not originate for hundreds of years AFTER his death. Don’t take my word for it, look it up in the Bible. You won’t find the term Jew until the tribes had split and formed the Northern (Israel) kingdom and the Southern (Judah=Jew) kingdom.
The name Israel which God gave to Jacob, Israel, was passed along to the sons of Joseph, Efriam and Manasseh, not to Judah. Today many Jews want to claim the heritage of Israel but it was NEVER theirs to claim. Be careful what you read on “Jewish” websites as they tend to be quite ignorant of the disposition of their brethren (as you appear to be). The USA and Britain (along with her empire) represent the remnants of the blessed tribes of Israel. God calls them the ‘house of Israel’ and treats them very separately from the ‘house of Judah (the Jews). This is not the kind of stuff you hear in church (or in temple) due to the ignorance (or obstinance) of our religious ‘leaders’.
I know it’s confusing but today the Jews live in a country called Israel but the name Israel was not their birthright. The fact that the country, Israel, exists today as a home for the Jews is primarily due to the actions taken in the last century by modern day Israel (the ones descended from Joseph) that being The United States and Great Britain.
Unless you understand the division between the House of Israel and the House of Judah you can NEVER understand the Bible and modern prophecy.
During this passover week now is a great time to take another look at the resurrection of Jesus. If you would care to hear a message from Dr. Gene Scott, my Bible teacher of many years I encourage you to listen to this 35 minute mp3 which describes how he turned the tables on his secular Stanford professors and proved (to himself) the resurrection of Jesus.
http://goo.gl/FNuCw
I don’t see evil (at our level) as much as I see indifference, fear, greed, selfishness and psychopathy.
Perhaps these attributes were deliberately encouraged as an antidote to our Nation’s theoretical virtues – like hanging witches and selling slaves. We have not only been dumbed down – we have had our moral integrity adjusted by our owners for their purposes.
Much easier to lie, cheat and steal if everyone else is doing it – kind of like hiding in plain sight. And then all one has to do is make it about sex/reproduction and the common folk begin their infighting on cue and the muppet masters skim off even more of the wealth.
Perhaps this dilution of morals was due to the loss of influence of the church or perhaps this state sponsored moral ambiguity, a la Bernays & Co., public schooling and Tax Exempt foundations, deliberately set about to erode the function of the church as a means to an end. Or perhaps it is just the times we are in.
Either way, rightly or wrongly, at one time many thought this country was divinely inspired – and now the rest of the world looks at us as if we are satanically possessed.
Mary Malone is correct, Spirituality and God really is very simple.
Religion is men controlling other men. Hence, it’s very complicated (on purpose).
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Ditchner
You said, emphasis mine — “The USA and Britain (along with her empire) REPRESENT the remnants of the blessed tribes of Israel. “
“Represent” how? Spiritually? Allegorically? Or, are you claiming, literally?
If literally, are you then saying George Washington could DIRECTLY trace his lineage to some middle eastern tribe or even person who lived thousands of years ago? I’m no geneticist, but that sounds like One Big Fairy tale.
You sound like a Mormon. They also declare their lineage through one of the tribes of Israel. The Book of Mormon even claims that Lamanites “are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.”. All of that, too, has been debunked as religious hogwash.
Here is what I think has happened. America is NOT mentioned in the Bible. How can that be … the world’s greatest nation ever …. created by God. Christians believe we are living in the Last Days. Armageddon comes. America must certainly be involved in that! What to do?? Here’s an idea; let’s come up with some fantastical genealogical “evidence” that America is the Lost Tribe, or whatever. So simple, even a maroon can grasp it. lol
Have not listened to Gene Scott. But, I used to watch regularly Melissa Scott, his 2nd wife. The only TV-preacher I have actually enjoyed … smart as heck, and fairly pleasing to the eye.
Stucky – My comment way up there earlier was a rhetorical snark, not a cheap shot at your post. Discussion and debate about the righteousness or lack thereof in this country is sorely needed – and at a more visible scale than a blog post or two could possibly provide.
Now, for some quality entertainment:
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Olga says:
“I have never understood how a belief in a god is the equivalent to morality.”
No shit! When I lived in the shit hole known as South Carolina I was always amazed at the light switch nature of Southern Baptists. The fine, upstanding citizens, (in their own words), would lie, cheat, steal, rob, rape, pillage, fight, cuss, fornicate, cast stones, covet, etc, etc, etc, Monday through Saturday. On Sunday however, they became pious and very disapproving of such things.
Organized religion is a crock of shit just like central bank backed government!
I_S
Nonanon pulled down his pants and shit out the following:
“It’s not all that complicated, yet you reject it. Why is that? I’ll tell you why, it’s your arrogance. You’re in good company. Carl Sagan was a god rejector, too, and the world is a better place without him.”
I don’t detect the slightest bit of arrogance in Stucky’s post. The same cannot be said of your post.
Would you care to describe in as much detail as possible, with supporting evidence of course, exactly how the world is a better place without Carl Sagan?
And Stucky is arrogant? You come off as both arrogant and ignorant. I thought there was some aspect of Christianity that speaks about Judgement?
I_S
“Stucky says:
“ … How many Jewish Pilgrims (haha) were on the Mayflower? Or, in the colonies before that? None, right?
Right, no Jewish Pilgrims. But the Pilgrims traced their origins to Manasseh (literally).
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SUBJECT: Bible Justice: Tell God you want new and better commandments now!
Dear Friend —
We’re up against a whole lot more than just opposition in Congress.
We’re facing an obstructionist entity that is willing to cling to every last outmoded law of nature and society to stop President Obama’s agenda in its tracks.
The name of this entity is God, and you can be damned sure that he is not going to stop throwing wrenches in the works of progress unless you do as we say. Organizing for Action is going to shift the balance of power back to real people.
Today’s most pressing issue that keeps all real people worried is, of course, same-sex marriage.
All it takes for us to be endowed by our Creator with the inalienable right to marry one or more persons of the same sex, is to demand via emails, Facebook, and Twitter that the Creator quit stalling and add same-sex marriage to his commandments.
This is going to be fun. If we do this right, the Creator won’t know what hit ‘im.
People like you have shown over and over again that no amount of brimstone can stop millions of Americans calling for change.
It’s going to take each of us rolling up our sleeves and chipping in what we can when we can. Donate $5 or more right now to become a founding member of a new creation:
https://donate.barackobama.com/First-Deadline
Jim Messina
Chair
Organizing for Action
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Obama, the antichrist, and his minions:
100 million on welfare
14 million on disability
48 million on SNAP
30 million union government drone employees
A rather large demon army, ready to fight the final battle
ie, the “47%”
Where shall I begin, ahh, I know; lets start with the mass murder of millions of people for their land.
The raping of women and children by the same people, and the kidnapping of African people who were brought here and enslaved for centuries. Next lets talk about the countless invasions into other peoples countries for their resources by America and the murder and rape of some of their citizens by our military forces. We can also add to that the millions of men, women, and children who were and are being killed by American bombs being dropped on them.
When you’ve looked at this stuff and really thought about it, how can God not judge such a wicked
nation. America at this present time is a nation who tortures, arrest people without a warrant and holds them indefinitely without ever seeing a lawyer. Jesus said that if you just harm one little one
then it would be better for you to have a millstone tied to your neck and tossed into the ocean.
Well America is guilty of killing millions of little ones from its beginning.
Jesus says that the Devil is the father of all liars. Well guess what America’s leaders are some of the biggest liars on the planet. Bush, Chaney, and all the rest of those corrupt rich people told
us with stern faces how Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, and how he would one day turn them on us. We were also told by that same lying bunch of sociopaths how evil and corrupt he was but they failed to mention that he was their boy just like Manuel Noriega until he didn’t want to listen to them anymore. They also failed to mention that it was them who gave him the weapons to gas the Kurds in the first place.
American racism is historical and it runs deep within the veins of this country. Lets talk about those good white Christians that would bring their entire families along with their neighbors and friends to enjoy a nice afternoon lynching on their picnic blankets while blacks, poor whites, native people were hung by racist citizens before God and man. The new slavery today is the prison system. This is where the big corporations have there eyes focused because prisoners work of nothing. If the bible says that the blood of righteous Abel cried out to the Lord from the ground then what about all those millions of men, women, and children that America has slain since its inception, will God not hear their blood cry out also? I believe that America is Doomed to destruction without a remedy. Jesus says that “Its easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. So just keep letting the rich have their way with running things, your times almost up.
Wake up brethren this is a nation that claims national pride. ” PRIDE COMES BEFORE THE FALL”.
What is does history teach about a nation that has the behavior and mindset of current America? What happened to the nation of Israel (God’s chosen people) when they disregarded the laws of the God who created the heavens and the earth? To know America’s future, look at Israel’s past.
As for me and my house we will serve GOD. JESUS CHRIST is my Lord and saviour.
God wants all to repent his words have been mocked misused blasphimed. Our pastors priests and pope knowingly misused gods words and god is mad
Sad thing is god showed me when god came to me even though I knew god was not far as I hammered a nail I got frustrated all of a sudden “Jesus was a carpenter came in my head” now I was a sinner in past then I decided to stop so I Asked what again”Jesus wasa carpenter think on it ” so I did but I mever read the bible or grew up in church so I thought maybe it was a hoax.
Next I found myself going to churcb and fasting reading
The bible praying repenting and taking free courses online.
I was goung through the bible and luke 15 caught my attention I got the word read so I did it was about the lost sheep tben once I read it I got look zome more so I did when I got to Jeremiah 6 I got read so I did daughter of zion turned to America I started to see all the wrong greed lust perversion homosexuality allowing all religions perversion Of gods word
Then god took me to job 10
He was telling me with gods words all of mankind is in trouble.
He is mad many worship the wrong god through their lies deceipt betrayl god showed me in a dream chaos destruction desolation disease famine drying up of earth floods of earth quakes wars no rest people screaming kids crying I was in a desert dressed in white I did not understand it I yelled stop tbe wars I knelt down to pray a livht shown from heaven kids ran to me tbe light got brighter I awoke.
I believe it is something coming from the sky and the earth will be destroyed by gods hand if we all dont repent this is Gods warning not mine!
Penny
From never having read the bible, or having gone to church …. to having God show you stuff, even telling you what passages to read. Amazing.
You sound like someone who just discovered the taste of sugar. Sweet! But, don’t forget — too much sugar will kill you.
Also, an online grammar/spelling course might be fun for you as well.
Stucky,
I have seen lists like your’s before and also things like this:
the odds of creating a single protein strand from a random assortment of elements is approx. 1 in 10^200. Again, more than the number of atoms in the observable universe.
Now, while these odds should give anyone pause on declaring the universe a perfectly rational place, it still leads nowhere from a rational viewpoint. OK, so the odds are terrible..so we just got really lucky.
The way I like to think about it is to put the the science under a philosophic microscope and ask why? “Life will out…” why? Why does life try?
“Consciousness is simply the result of aeons of development of complexity in neural networks, blah, blah, blah” Ah, but what is the origin, the impetus for an original thought? What is the biochemical process of inspiration?
Oh, and don’t even get me started on the fundamental forces…those just ARE, for some reason.
Anyway, I think my beliefs are very similar to your own: I believe there is, must be a God, but refuse to define Him, which seems to be the goal of most religions.
Oh, on the actual content of the article:
Do you ever notice how EVERY nation seems to consider itself blessed by God; to be numero uno on God’s list?
We all like to be the hero of our own story and we all like God to be on our side. That is very human.
Wow Stuck. I’m in awe. This is in its second year of commenting.
AWD had some (premonitory?) comments above about God, the soul, death, religion. Simply, wow.
Pray like everything I do depends on God, work like it depends on me.
Think of the number of souls God is, ultimately, responsible for. He must work so very hard keeping this all going.
He deserves for his creations to do the same. Way too many Christians think judging others is the work God wants them to do, even though His “word” states many times he does not wish this for us.
Working to make this world more like heaven and less like a jail or courtroom/hell would go a long way to God blessing us. Sadly, I see how that is going to work out.
Hugs Stuck!
TE
C’mon girl! Read my Seneca article (“Stop Wasting Time”) and lemme know what you think. Opine freely … whether positive or negative.
DRUD
Nice comments.
If I were to write the article today I would change the very first sentence from “First of all I am an Agnostic” to “First of all I am an Deist”. You see, I am evolving!
Stucky- Do you pray to God?
Deists believe we are on our own , that God lets his whole creation run without his fingers in the pie so to speak. Why bother to ask for forgiveness, blessings, help etc? Have you evolved?
“Stucky- Do you pray to God? ” ———– Bea Lever
Extremely rarely. As many do …. when really nasty shit happens. For example, when my little old frail mom fell down a flight of stairs I prayed on the way to the hospital, at the hospital, and on the way home.
I hope no one asks me to explain it, or points out the inconsistencies. It’s just the way it is.