9/11 – A FOURTH TURNING PERSPECTIVE (Featured Article)

Posted on 10th September 2010 by avalon in Economy |Politics |Social Issues

9/11, Afghanistan, Bush, China, Crisis, Fourth Turning, Iran, Iraq, Obama, Peak oil, Russia, Unraveling, Wall Street, World War III

The four turnings comprise a quaternal social cycle of growth, maturation, entropy, and death (and rebirth). In a spring like High, a society fortifies and builds and converges in an era of promise. In a summer like Awakening, it dreams and plays and exults in an era of euphoria. In an autumnal Unraveling, it harvests and consumes and diverges in an era of anxiety. In a hibernal Crisis, it focuses and struggles and sacrifices in an era of survival. When the saeculum is in motion, therefore, no long human lifetime can go by without a society confronting its deepest spiritual and worldly needs. - The Fourth Turning

Nine years after the attack on the World Trade Center the mood of the country has transformed dramatically. I watched the horror on a TV in a conference room at work with my colleagues. I remember being in a daze for a few days after the attack. When it became unambiguous that Osama bin Laden masterminded the attacks and was being protected by the Taliban in Afghanistan, I wanted justice. The entire world rallied around the US. There was worldwide support for the United States’ right to attack Afghanistan and kill the perpetrators.

In the days immediately following the attacks, there were many memorials and vigils around the world. In addition, pictures were placed all over Ground Zero. A witness described being unable to “get away from faces of innocent victims who were killed. Their pictures are everywhere, on phone booths, street lights, walls of subway stations. Everything reminded me of a huge funeral, people quiet and sad, but also very nice. Before, New York gave me a cold feeling; now people were reaching out to help each other.”

There was a feeling of unity in the country for a brief shining moment. If the year had been 2007, rather than 2001, that unity may have been sustained. Anyone who had read Strauss & Howe’s 1997 book The Fourth Turning was likely trying to figure out if the 9/11 attacks were the trigger for the Fourth Turning. But it was too soon. As Strauss & Howe relate in the book, a turning can be sudden or subtle:

“The gateway to a new turning can be obvious and dramatic (like the 1929 Stock Crash) or subtle and gradual (like 1984’s Morning in America). It usually occurs two to five years after a new generation of children starts being born. The tight link between turning gateways and generational boundaries enables each archetype to fill an entire phase-of-life just as the mood of an old turning grows stale and feels ripe for replacement with something new.”

Unraveling Culture

The Unraveling, which had begun in 1984, had not run its course by September 11, 2001. Turnings generally last for 20 to 25 years. In 2001, we were only 17 years into the Unraveling. The mood of the country had not developed to the point where a consensus could be built to address a national Crisis. We had been attacked, but our very existence as a nation had not been threatened. The 9/11 attacks heightened the feeling of anxiety in the country and put us on the path towards a great Crisis. Strauss & Howe explained the phases of an Unraveling in the book:

“An UNRAVELING begins as a society-wide embrace of the liberating cultural forces set loose by the Awakening. People have had their fill of spiritual rebirth, moral protest, and lifestyle experimentation. Content with what they have become individually, they vigorously assert an ethos of pragmatism, self-reliance, laissez faire, and national (or sectional or ethnic) chauvinism.

While personal satisfaction is high, public trust ebbs amid a fragmenting culture, harsh debates over values, and weakening civic habits. The sense of guilt (which rewards principle and individuality) reaches its zenith. As moral debates brew, the big public arguments are over ends, not means. Decisive public action becomes very difficult, as community problems are deferred. Wars are fought with moral fervor but without consensus or follow-through.

Eventually, cynical alienation hardens into a brooding pessimism. During a High, obliging individuals serve a purposeful society, and even bad people get harnessed to socially constructive tasks; during an Unraveling, an obliging society serves purposeful individuals, and even good people find it hard to connect with their community. The approaching specter of public disaster ultimately elicits a mix of paralysis and apathy that would have been unthinkable half a saeculum earlier. People can now feel, but collectively can no longer do.” - The Fourth Turning

The Clinton years were divisive and cynical. You knew the country was adrift, but no one could harness the power of the realm to take on the impending challenges. The nation divided into Blue states and Red States. The Moral Majority raged against the Godlessness of the country. The 2000 Presidential election was an example of a country deeply divided, fragmented and unable to agree on anything. The election was essentially a draw, and a partisan Supreme Court picked the winner. It seemed like the country was divided as never before. But, a student of history would have recognized the same issues, dilemmas and foul mood in the 1760s, 1850s and 1920s. Strauss and Howe documented the prior Unravelings in US history:

“The mood of the current Culture Wars era seems new to nearly every living American but is not new to history. Around World War I, America steeped in reform and fundamentalism amidst a floodtide of crime, alcohol, immigration, political corruption, and circus trials. The 1850s likewise simmered with moral righteousness, shortening tempers, and multiplying “mavericks.” It was a decade, says historian David Donald, in which “the authority of all government in America was at a low point.” Entering the 1760s, the colonies felt rejuvenated in spirit but reeled from violence, mobs, insurrections, and paranoia over the corruption of official authority.” - The Fourth Turning

The country went to war with a moral fervor, which quickly dissipated. There was no follow through, as bin Laden was allowed to escape. The appearance of unity in the country was wiped away with the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses. Americans became more cynical after 9/11. Instead of addressing the visible financial catastrophe set in motion by political promises made decades ago, Americans deluded themselves with visions of faux wealth created by the Federal Reserve inflating the largest bubble in history. President Bush did not demand shared sacrifice after 9/11. He instructed the American people to defeat the terrorists by leasing a Mercedes SUV; buying a 6,000 sq ft McMansion with 10 rooms, granite countertops, Jacuzzis, and a home theater, financed with 0% down; and taking your ultimate dream vacation in the Caribbean paid for with one of your 10 credit cards.

While Americans binged on credit and ignored the disastrous future that awaited them with the approaching Fourth Turning, a brooding pessimism began to blanket the country. A national paralysis overtook the populace regarding vital issues. The popping of the housing bubble from 2006 through 2008 revealed massive fraud on the part of Wall Street bankers; corrupt politicians, bought off by corporations, in Washington DC; inept bungling regulators; millions of morons wanting to be led astray; and a Federal Reserve that provided the cheap credit to fuel the mass delusion. The complete meltdown of the financial system in September 2008 will be viewed as the catalyst for the current Fourth Turning. The transition from Unraveling to Crisis has transpired.

Crisis Deepening

“A CRISIS arises in response to sudden threats that previously would have been ignored or deferred, but which are now perceived as dire. Great worldly perils boil off the clutter and complexity of life, leaving behind one simple imperative: The society must prevail. This requires a solid public consensus, aggressive institutions, and personal sacrifice.” - The Fourth Turning

The current Crisis is deepening day by day. The ninth anniversary of 9/11 is revealing the dramatic mood change of the country. In the days following 9/11 there was little anger against the religion of Islam. President Bush went to a mosque and declared that Islam was a religion of peace. He said forcefully that anyone who attacked Arab or Muslim Americans in some kind of twisted attempt at revenge for 9/11 would be met with the full force of American law. Most right minded Americans agreed with President Bush. After 9 years of waging wars against Muslims, in which victory is unachievable, Americans are weary, agitated and ready to lash out.

Contrast the reaction of Americans after 9/11 with the recent issue of converting a Burlington Coat factory store into a Muslim community center two blocks from Ground Zero. The mainstream media has been full of vitriol and anger regarding an issue that would have gotten no press in 2002. There have been protests, counter-protests, accusations and lies spread across the airwaves. The anti-Muslim feeling in the country is palpable. A nut-job pastor with a flock of 50 people threatens to burn the Koran and sets off a firestorm across the globe. The reaction to this inconsequential knucklehead would have been non-existent in 2002. The mood of the country has clearly changed. The anger building against the ruling elite on Wall Street and in Washington DC is real. Average Americans feel betrayed by politicians, bankers and corporate America. The Tea party movement is a reflection of that anger. The country certainly hasn’t reached a consensus about which direction the country needs to move, but we are still in the early stages of the Fourth Turning. A threat to our very existence will reveal itself in the near future and generate the consensus necessary to meet the threat.

What is beyond a doubt is that the country is facing extreme peril as it tries to maneuver its way through an economic Depression, a looming peak oil crisis, unresolved long-term fiscal obligations, and antagonism from countries throughout the world. The cycles of history do not reveal the exact nature of the Crisis ahead, but previous Crisis periods give us a flavor of what to expect. Based on our previous Crises periods and knowing which national issues have been ignored for decades, the likely threats to confront the nation over the next decade include:

Continued reduction in the national wealth of Americans as home prices drop another 20% and the stock market loses another 30% of its value.
A National Debt approaching $20 trillion within the next 5 years, potentially resulting in massive interest expense payments and/or a collapse of the USD.
When the Central Bank experiment in fiat currency fails within the next 5 years, a hyperinflationary depression is likely.
The demographic headwinds of a rapidly aging population combined with the gutting of industrial America by corporate chieftains insures that the American economy will be stuck in low gear. The result will be a steady decline in the American standard of living.
The diminishing supply of cheap, easily accessible oil will fundamentally change American society. The entire suburban sprawl existence of America, with 260 million automobiles and food trucked from 1,500 miles to grocery stores will disappear practically overnight.
The wrenching changes which will be required to localize, combined with the loss of wealth, will likely lead to social chaos, possible revolt, and the use of U.S. military forces against citizens of the United States. Geographic fragmentation of the country is a distinct possibility.
The desperate need for oil will provoke wars for precious resources. The Middle East is likely to turn into a battlefield. The combatants are unknown at this point, but China and Russia are likely to be involved. With the proliferation of nuclear weapons, an escalation could lead to a catastrophic worldwide conflagration.

Fourth Turnings always sweep away the old order and replace it with a new order. There is no guarantee that the new order will be better. It could be far worse. As we honor those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001 we need to brace ourselves for the storm ahead. The clouds are gathering and the time of great sacrifice is approaching. There are no guarantees from God that the United States will always prevail. We have gone far off course this time. I trust we can rise to the challenge.

“History offers no guarantees. Obviously, things could go horribly wrong – the possibilities ranging from a nuclear exchange to incurable plagues, from terrorist anarchy to high-tech dictatorship. We should not assume that Providence will always exempt our nation from the irreversible tragedies that have overtaken so many others: not just temporary hardship, but debasement and total ruin. Losing in the next Fourth Turning could mean something incomparably worse. It could mean a lasting defeat from which our national innocence – perhaps even our nation – might never recover.” - The Fourth Turning

150 Comments

DP says:

But the real 9/11 questions remain UNANSWERED,

WHO REALLY DID IT ?

…”unambiguous that Osama bin Laden masterminded the attacks”…

Too Fast

Too Pat

Too Easy

Another Patsy

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 13 1

10th September 2010 at 8:55 pm
Administrator says:

DP

I am a patsy. Please set me straight. Who really did it? I gots to know.

Like or Dislike: 2 4

10th September 2010 at 10:11 pm
SGTbull07 says:

Hack:
9/11 was a false flag. It’s been quantifiably proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Seriously, you are a hack.

You Can’t Handle the 9/11 Truth: Dr. Paul Craig Roberts Explains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nfM0cwouTE

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 11 2

10th September 2010 at 10:20 pm
Administrator says:

Beyond a shadow of a doubt? Amazing that idiots can post such drivel and then are incapable of putting together one paragraph of their own thoughts. Every 9/11 truther is exactly alike. They are only capable of posting links. Not one has ever made a comprehensive case in their own words. They are incapable of independent thought and must rely on “experts” to support their delusional ramblings.

Hot debate. What do you think? 4 10

10th September 2010 at 10:37 pm
DeeDee says:

The only question that seems to be evaded at all cost is the one question any criminal investigation must start with:
Who Benefits from this crime?
Who has the most to gain from the policies instigated in it’s aftermath?
And who had the clout and connections to make it happen?

The answer is clear…but nobody wants to openly go there because it’s the third rail.
It’s death to political and professional careers. but the facts are in plain sight…seek who benefited from 9/11 and you shall find the perpetrator.

All this discussion of “if” this was a false flag operation is in and of itself a sort of false flag operation. It’s the wrong question. The only function this question serves is to distract from the truly important. The question is not “what happened” the question is “who did it”…all else is bullshit and distraction

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 7 0

10th September 2010 at 11:15 pm
AgandAu says:

Admin, not one person or group has put forth a comprehensive case for three high rise steel frame buildings crashing to the ground while pulverizing the structure in near free fall speed due to fire and airline damage.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 11 1

10th September 2010 at 11:28 pm
Bobbi says:

Administrator:

Indirection and ad hominem attacks do nothing for the pursuit of true knowledge.

Try sticking to the subject at hand, if you’re “man” enough.

WTC 7 managed to fall how?

If you can convince me that it wasn’t demo’d then I’ll suck it up and believe in the otherwise makebelieve story that 19 cave dwellers with nothing but box cutters could defeat a multi-layered, multi-billion dollar escurity system.
Yeah, you are the same kind of person who boasts about how great our military, yet are quite readily quick to proclaim that all this happened due to incompetence. There’s a huge flaw in logic here, in which case it’s not a surprise that you’d stoop to shifting the subject to Unicorns, or fucking whatever…

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 8 0

10th September 2010 at 11:37 pm
Tampa Gold says:

AgandAu

Hi. I won’t get into great detail with you, I’ll just mention some quick facts.

1. Heavy jets filled to capacity with JP-4 (jet fuel)

2. Very tall buildings with just an outer skeleton of steel support beams and ZERO interior support beams.

3. Heavy jets full of fuel crash through most of steel skeleton and explode into hellfire.

4. The intese heat of said fires are too much for the now damaged skeleton to keep supporting the weight of the upper floors.

5. Upper floors collapse ‘pancake style’ on top of the lower floors all the way down to the ground because there are ZERO interior support posts.

I have answered your question correctly.

Hot debate. What do you think? 2 10

10th September 2010 at 11:58 pm
Tampa Gold says:

“…19 cave dwellers with nothing but box cutters could defeat a multi-layered, multi-billion dollar escurity system….”

Do you know why that was able to happen?

Because people like you believed that it couldn’t happen in the first place.

Hot debate. What do you think? 1 7

10th September 2010 at 12:02 am
re:pete says:

When I was growing up the “Military Industrial Complex” (see Eisenhower) got the little kids to hide under their desks because they were afraid of those Scary Russians.
Then they went home and scared the hell out of mom and dad.
Trillions of dollars went into building nukes and b52′s and all sorts of related stuff and guess who got rich.
When the Russians went broke the “industrial Complex” needed another gig.
911 was a made for tv special. After the first plane went in within minutes every eye in the world was focused on the WTC. Next plane went in and “We’re Under Attack”. The buildings go down in front of a massive tv audience and the “Terrorism Industrial Complex” is born.
This mass hysteria can be occasionaly stimulated by changing the terrorist signal color or by arresting some guy in Times Square for having a couple of BBQ tanks and some firecrackers in his car.

Like or Dislike: 4 0

10th September 2010 at 12:03 am
Wesley Mouch says:

DeeDee nailed it. Quinn wants a narrative, here’s mine. The fact of Israeli foreknowledge of the event is undeniable (odigo, dancing israelis arrested). Mossad agents were also found in a van with explosives near one of the tunnels after the event. This was a Mossad operation with assistance from Israeli-firsters here. Bush was informed after the event & supplied a script as well as the media. FWIW Tim Osman(OBL) denied ever having anything to do with 911. Why would Israel do this? Look up what Bibi said that day. He was in NYC.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 7 1

10th September 2010 at 12:07 am
Tampa Gold says:

Oh, and in case any of you progressive truthers missed your e-mail inbox today, allow me to indulge you in THE most disgusting and crass exploitation of 9/11 thus far….

Text is from an e-mail this morning from the first (cough, cough) lady. Unreal.

Good morning,
Nine years ago, nearly three thousand Americans lost their lives on September 11, 2001. Like many Americans, I was shocked and horrified by the attacks on our country. But I was also inspired by the heroism and selflessness of so many of my fellow Americans in the wake of this tragedy.

From the brave men and women of Flight 93 who sacrificed their own lives to save the lives of others, to the first responders who rushed without hesitation to help those in need, to the young men and women who chose to join our Armed Forces following the attacks – these tragic events united Americans in a remarkable spirit of solidarity and compassion.

It’s that spirit of selflessness and service that inspired the first September 11th National Day of Service and Remembrance last year. On this day all Americans can honor the brave men and women who lost and risked their lives by serving others in their community.

Tomorrow, I will be volunteering with Mission Serve, an initiative bringing together civilian and military communities through service and volunteerism. Working alongside active duty members of the military, wounded warriors, veterans, military spouses and students, I’ll help renovate a community center at a retirement community for veterans in McLean, Virginia.

Go to blah, blah blah dot guv. to learn more.

We are ruled by freaks. TG

Like or Dislike: 1 1

10th September 2010 at 12:13 am
Apollo says:

I find it somewhat entertaining that posters before me responded to a serious analysis of 4th Turning national crisis by arguing alternative ‘theories’ of how the Twin Tower actually came down. Have they not seen those jetliners? But they proposed the Towers came down due to undiscovered physical law perpetrated by unknown government agents. Have religions gone into their heads?

Strauss & Howe pointed out that during the entrance into 4th Turing Crisis, large number of people tend to enter into a state of extraordinary denial. We understand this: When you just had a big car accident, the first reaction is to deny this actually happened to you.

Canada’s conservative-minded national newspaper online web nationalpost.com just published two articles on the state of America national denial as the economic crisis enters the third year with no solution in sight. A ‘second-dip’ appears all but inevitable.

9/11: The U.S. tipping point?
http://www.financialpost.com/news/tipping+point/3501362/story.html

Excerpt:
“America, nine years on, is in a far worse place, a country that continues to blare that it is the “greatest nation” on Earth while digging itself ever deeper into debt as it tries to climb out of the Great Recession.”

What all clear-headed observers see, and what many Americans deny, is that the ‘double-dip’ is a nice term for ‘digging the hole deeper’. Big Media cannot accept the Hole gets deeper, because that means their Exceptionism glory days are gone. So they talk ‘Double-Dip’, as if the Single-Dip properly described the blowing up of Wall Street investment banks and trillions went up in smoke. The general populace, being the perfect GroupThink zombies, locked onto this propaganda and believe the Double-Dip is an actual living animal to be slain. Like, let’s play a Wii video game to destroy the Double-Dip!!

On a more serious side, let’s check out:

Roubini: America can never again reach its old glory
http://www.financialpost.com/news/business-insider/Roubini+America+never+again+reach+glory/3500631/story.html

Excerpt:
“In a new long essay co-authored with Ian Bremmer, Nouriel Roubini argues that America will never be the same, and that at the moment we’re merely in denial.

The solution: Acceptance.”

Here’s the article by Bremmer & Roubini:
http://www.iimagazine.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=2660510

Although Bremmer/Roubini put it in the context of global finance, their message, if read carefully, is:

U.S.A. IS ENTERING THE AGE OF DESCENDENCY

That, in a nutshell, is the basic nature of this 4th Turning. National decline is a supremely painful, humbling thing, especially for a people who believe and behave like top-dog for so long. Roubini calls this denial ‘epistemological blindness’. I’d rather assign this honor to one specific man – G W Bush. Because it is not 9/11 that trigger 4th Turning Crisis. It is the administration of G W Bush mismanagement of economy and society.

I welcome this historical change to Descendency. After all we are talking about coming down from the hyper-mountain of excess, arrogance, hubris, recklessness, irresponsibility, war, rape and plunder. America, after the end of the other superpower USSR, has proven to be incapable of conducting with intelligence its national and international affairs as top-dog. Therefore this status should and must end.

There’s a lot of talk about recovery. I hope we don’t recover to the ‘good old’ days of the past 15 years – being the all-around asshole kicking asses all over the world. But recover, transition, back to the good days of 1940 – just being a responsible, prudent, friendly Republic.

Because size corrupts and hyper-size corrupts absolutely.

Like or Dislike: 2 1

10th September 2010 at 1:05 am
re:pete says:

WTC-7 Any Questions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM

Like or Dislike: 4 0

10th September 2010 at 1:28 am
re:pete says:

Anyone who isn’t wearing blinders could see squibs from explosions occurring way away from the impact sites.

Jet fuel would not soften steel, it would take forever for that 4 inch thick steel to be compromised,
(see above video). You either have to agree with this or you have to disagree. If you disagree then you’re disagreeing with your own assertion (that it was weakened steel that resulted in the collapse). If you agree, then you have to explain why the buildings experienced free-fall speeds collapse.

Again, the first time in history that modern highrises have COMPLETELY failed due to fire. Not ONE building, but THREE, all the same day! Oh, and one building wasn’t even hit by anything!

But, in case you’ve got your head out of the crack pipe, there’s still the issue of why, if the steel was all weakened, the buildings didn’t FALL OVER (instead of dropping straight down, as happens with every properly executed demolition).

Sorry, but the “official story” doesn’t hold water. Just like past stories have also failed the test of time: Gulf of Tonkin, WMD in Iraq etc etc etc…

Perhaps if you don’t believe this you’d instead believe in the the rulers themselves laying it all out? Go read Project For A New American Century (http://www.newamericancentury.org/).

No problem providing info.
Too bad that you can’t present any meaningful data to back up why you’re licking the asses of your masters…

Like or Dislike: 4 1

10th September 2010 at 1:58 am
Opinionated Bloviator says:

Economic Collapse – Change that cannot be stopped. For a more realistic (sensationalist?) outlook on the End Of The World As We Know It, read Climate Wars alternatively World War Z (got brains?). Long farmland, chainsaws, ammo, medical training, tinfoil hats and pretty girls with lax morals.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 2:07 am
eugend66 says:

As DeeDee said.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 4:59 am
Expat says:

I have a hard time with most conspiracy theories (and theorists) because they are generally nutty (and the theorists even nuttier). But reflect on the things we learn about history as secrets are revealed. Roosevelt being aware of an impending Japanese attack. Confirmation by Congressional investigators that the Kennedy assassination was a conspiracy involving multiple gunmen. False flag attacks in Germany, Italy and Greece in the sixties and seventies. Gulf of Tonkin. The Maine. WMD in Iraq. And the list goes on.

There are many, many things about 9/11 which gnaw at my curiosity. Cheney in the NORAD bunker standing down all patrols. WTC-7. The extremely orderly collapse of the Towers. The early morning attacks which were designed to MINIMIZE casualties (one hour later and perhaps twenty thousand might have died). The amazingly swift discovery of the identities of the hijackers. The lack of any plane parts at the Pentagon. The odd crash site of Flight 93. The undamaged hijacker passport on a roof.

All of this, I would have dismissed or never even contemplated had it not been for the orchestrated, well-planned response by our government, namely the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq as well as the creation of the largest security system in history (with its own Gulag Archipelago, Gestapo, Death Camps, and Tual Slengs). The handing over of our nation’s wealth to Wall Street, the Oil Companies, and Hedge Fund Managers.

So, post hoc or propter hoc, there has indeed been a massive 9/11 Conspiracy.

Either way, as Pogo says, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 7 0

10th September 2010 at 5:15 am
Smokey says:

Deedee, Bobbi, AgandAu, re:pete, eugene66, SGTbull07 and DP ARE ALL THE SAME PERSON. All the thumbs down came from him, THE SHEEP FUCKING TRAITOROUS COWARD, DP.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 5:34 am
mountainaires says:

A wonderful read, thought-provoking and, I think, quite accurate about our society and our nation at this point; I sometimes feel as if we are in the heavy, still moments before the lightning strikes; it’s as if we’re on the verge of something and the country is collectively holding its breath, waiting for the event to occur, whatever it may be.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 6:00 am
grunk says:

If it’s so clear that this has been the 4th turning, then it should be easy to see what’s coming next.

This article predicts the past very well.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 7:24 am
Administrator says:

DeeDee

Regale us with who benefitted. We await your detailed analysis.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 8:19 am
Administrator says:

AgandAu

It looks like the truthers are out in force. As usual, they have nothing to propose as an alternative to the official story. They propose questions but never an answer. People who lack intelligence and common sense use this method in their warped conspiracy theory minds.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 8:22 am
Administrator says:

Bobbi

Please explain how thousands of demolition experts were able to rig the buildings and then keep quiet for 9 years about murdering 3,000 people. You are delusional moron if you expect anyone to believe your idiotic conspiracy drivel.

Like or Dislike: 0 5

10th September 2010 at 8:24 am
Yojimbo says:

9/11 was definately an inside job. I have no especial training or education to determine the ultimate truthfulness of this issue other than a college education, much time spent watching the online videos arguing either side, and my own judgment. Of course, I could be wrong.

So I encourage anyone who chooses, to visit sites by scholars such as Webster Tarpley, David Ray Griffin, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth, Pilots for 9/11 truth, etc. There are many outstanding articles and videos there.

And like Expat correctly notes, there are far too many inconsistent, outlandish, curious, and nonsensical parts of the official story.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 0

10th September 2010 at 8:25 am
Administrator says:

Apollo

Thanks for a post about the actual story. The responses are another example of the delusional mindset of millions of Americans. They want some bogeyman to blame for their failings. They want to be angry at someone or something, but they are not sure who or what.

Like or Dislike: 0 5

10th September 2010 at 8:32 am
Administrator says:

re:pete

Shocking!!! An idiotic truther posted a link. Are you capable of an independent thought? Can you write a complete sentence?

Not likely. Crawl back into your hole.

Like or Dislike: 1 5

10th September 2010 at 8:36 am
Administrator says:

Yojimbo

Please explain in your own words how 9/11 was an inside job. Please address the key questions of who, how and why? We await your detailed well thought out cogent analysis.

Queu the sound of crickets.

Like or Dislike: 0 5

10th September 2010 at 8:44 am
Administrator says:

Expat

Just the usual truther bullshit of questions. Please provide the answers. Who, how and why? Is there any truther that has ever addressed those extremely simple questions? NO

Just questions. Never answers. This is the sign of a feeble mind.

Like or Dislike: 0 6

10th September 2010 at 8:49 am
flash says:

I have to agree with Mad Max when he says that the only solution left for Americans who truly love Freedom and Independence is to break out the Guillotines. The Republic is dead. All that’s remains is to sweep up the mess and start over.

Raw: Max Keiser on the Middle Class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciXw-4K-Gls

“Let’s take em down to the the Place de la Concorde and see what they’re really made of” Max Keiser

a’ la French Revolution.

BTW , was the attack on 9/11 aimed at the fascsit power structure of the US government or the average American.
I say the Fascist power structure , therefore it has nothing to do freedom loving individualists.
Fuck New York and Washington DC. Those too festering shitholes been nothing but blood sucking parasites attached to the ass of a once great liberty loving Nation.

Like or Dislike: 1 1

10th September 2010 at 9:18 am
flash says:

In order to break the grip of the Fascist/Corporatist fucks who are strangling the last smidgen of life from the emaciated corpse of individual liberty,We The People must stop serving those who seek to enslave regardless the icon.
As Benjamin Franklin once remarked “Where liberty dwells , there is my country.”
And I ain’t seen no “liberty” hanging ’round Washington DC lately.
Have you?

Adams and Henry are surely spinning in their graves at the spectacle of this once great Nation becoming a Banana Republic governed by effeminate milksops and Femi-Nazi whores.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”
- Samuel Adams

Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
-Patrick Henry

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3k-L6baew_c/TIP1Wf7t3FI/AAAAAAAAAE8/oT60CTMQSQg/s1600/Image1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19cEc_DVRrI
Project Overview

Can you say “Psychological Warfare?”

I have a project and I need the help of like minded people. I will try to be brief.
I have recorded an anti-government protest song. The style is country-rock, and the song is pretty direct.
I need people to request it on radio stations.
My goals are-
1. The short answer is, I want to influence the mass psychology of the entire nation. I want politicians and their staff to hear it and recognize that
We the People do not like what they are doing, and I want all other government employees to hear it and recognize that they are NOT just ordinary Americans trying to earn a living, they are on the wrong side and we do not like what they are doing either.
If you want to read the long answer click here
This is not about my music career. I do not have a music career. It is a hobby. I work hard and am taxed and regulated to death too.
The Plan-
1. I send copies of the song to country radio stations, state by state. Generally speaking, they are not going to play it.
2. Set up a web page for each state with a list of all radio stations that have the song, along with links to their request pages,
and e-mail addresses for Program Directors and requests.
3. Try to get people to request the song. The song title is “My Country, My Ass” (I said it was direct)

Here is a link to stream the song.

If you want to watch a simple video of the song, with lyrics click here

I should probably say that it became necessary to re-record the song in a better studio to get a better sound, so
the version currently distributed is the same song but sounds much better than the stream or the video.

REQUEST THE SONG

Tell them you aren’t a relative or a fan club member. You are ONE OF THEIR LISTENERS and you want them to play it.
Tell them you are not in the mood to hear “God Bless the USA” right now.

If you DON’T live in one of the following states, click here for iTunes and internet stations. They all have the song.

Use these links if you live IN OR NEAR any of the following states.

Here is a link to Alabama radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Alaska radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Arizona radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in California that have the song

Here is a link to Connecticut radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Colorado radio stations that have the song

Delaware see Maryland

Here is a link to Florida radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Georgia radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Hawaii radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in Idaho that have the song

Here is a link to Illinois radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Kansas radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Kentucky radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Louisiana radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Maine radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Maryland and Delaware radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Massachussetts radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Michigan radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Minnesota radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in Missouri that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in Montana that have the song

Here is a link to Nevada radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in Vermont and New Hampshire that have the song

Here is a link to New Jersey radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in New Mexico that have the song

Here is a link to North Carolina radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Ohio radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in Oklahoma that have the song

Here is a link to Pennsylvania radio stations that have the song

Rhode Island see Connecticut

Here is a link to South Carolina radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Tennessee radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Texas radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Utah radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Vermont radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to radio stations in Virginia that have the song

Here is a link to Washington radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Wisconsin radio stations that have the song

Here is a link to Wyoming radio stations that have the song

If you like the message and want to spread it, please contact these radio stations.
Let them know you are local. A phone call request would be great.
Share this web page with all your friends.

If you like the song and you request it somewhere, tell me where you requested it
Send me an e mail if you want a free download. If you hear the song on the radio please tell me about that.
THANK YOU!

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 9:20 am
Administrator says:

flash

The link isn’t showing. Send it to me at quinnadvisors@comcast.net and I’ll post it.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 9:52 am
Agandau says:

Tampa Gold says:

“Hi. I won’t get into great detail with you, I’ll just mention some quick facts.”

Translation: I got nothing of substance, so I’ll repeat things I heard on the MSM.

“1. Heavy jets filled to capacity with JP-4 (jet fuel)”

Kerosene

“2. Very tall buildings with just an outer skeleton of steel support beams and ZERO interior support beams.”

The WTC buildings were solidly constructed with 240 perimeter beams and massive 47 interior beams measuring 4 feet in diameter. I believe 47 is a greater number than ZERO.

“3. Heavy jets full of fuel crash through most of steel skeleton and explode into hellfire.”

The jet fuel (kerosene) did explode in a hell fire, much of it atomized and burned up in that explosion and any that pooled on the interior was burned up in about half an hour and burning office furniture, etc to continue the blase.

“4. The intese heat of said fires are too much for the now damaged skeleton to keep supporting the weight of the upper floors.”

What happened to the massive 47 interior beams?

“5. Upper floors collapse ‘pancake style’ on top of the lower floors all the way down to the ground because there are ZERO interior support posts.”

Well, there were 47 more interior beams than YOUR theory suggests, but moving on to the pancake theory, even NIST dropped that theory from their report after scientist questioned what happened to the pancaked floors? Why was there not a big stack of floors (or ANY floors) at the ground level on top of the debris.

“I have answered your question correctly.”

Not EVEN close!

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 5 0

10th September 2010 at 9:58 am
Expat says:

Hi Jim, Thanks for the feeble mind comment. I won’t enter into a mud-slinging contest with you, but I will point out that I asked no questions, just mentioned some things which have not been adequately explained to me.

As for who and why, well I think we can readily list all the various neo-cons and leaders of the military-industrial complex who could have benefited from this attack to further their agenda. I did not say the attack was carried out by CIA/NSA/DIA etc but have doubts about just how much the government knew beforehand. And it is certainly clear that they did not act on the facts after the attack, otherwise we would have bombed Saudi Arabia instead of Afghanistan.

My contention is that events like these give rise to conspiracy theories because: the government lies about most things in the first place so we are conditioned to disbelieve it, the results of these events are usually unpleasant policies like war or the suspension of human rights, the answers we are given are rarely satisfying or in accordance with our pre-existing beliefs.

And one parting shot. Why is the question “How could the government keep something like this secret?” a valid question for conformists but not for “truthers” or tin-foil hatters? There is, I hope, no dispute about the attack having taken place. So, therefore it was kept secret by either al Qaeda or by nefarious legions of death under the personal command of Dick Cheney. But, either way, it WAS kept secret by someone. Or is my mind too feeble to grasp some subtlety here?

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 5 0

10th September 2010 at 10:14 am
Agandau says:

Another thought about the damage to the exterior columns, the damage was isolated to the columns on one side of the buildings, so if that when the collapse started it would have begun at that point before the other sections. Even with the weakened state of the other columns, the beams furtherest away from the impact zone would have resisted collapse, and if resisted for only a second would have caused the top of the building to slide off of the area of resistance and fall to the ground beside the footprint. This is not what happened, the building fell through the area of MOST resistance, fell through columns below that were not damaged and were designed to support the weight. Look at this image of the south tower.

How is it possible that the top of that tower crushed the floors below when the momentum is clearly to the side of the building? What about the laws of physics?

Like or Dislike: 4 0

10th September 2010 at 10:20 am
Yojimbo says:

Jim

I noticed one typo in your article. In sentence three, it would have been more correct to say that Emmanuel Goldstein masterminded the attacks…

I notice that rarely do people who cite 1984 as a masterwork remember Emmanuel Goldstein. His function, as Osama bin Laden, is critical.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 10:40 am
Agandau says:

Administrator says:

“AgandAu

It looks like the truthers are out in force. As usual, they have nothing to propose as an alternative to the official story. They propose questions but never an answer. People who lack intelligence and common sense use this method in their warped conspiracy theory minds.”

Hmm, I’m disappointed with your ad hoc attack on me. Are you saying that the fact that I have questions about the defining moment in my lifetime translates to a lack of intelligence? I believe that a civil debate can enlighten both sides, but only if that debate ignores the strawman setups and ad hoc attacks.

Btw, in the post you were responding to I didn’t ask any questions, I stated “Admin, not one person or group has put forth a comprehensive case for three high rise steel frame buildings crashing to the ground while pulverizing the structure in near free fall speed due to fire and airline damage.”

Like or Dislike: 3 1

10th September 2010 at 10:47 am
Tampa Gold says:

Agandau

Your response tells me all that I need to know about you.

You obvioulsy have no clue what you are talking about in this matter and are sticking with your falacies even when the obvious has been pointed out to you.

Please seek help for your delusional mind.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 10:47 am
Agandau says:

Tampa Gold sticks fingers in ears and shouts “I can’t hear you!”

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 10:50 am
blackstone30 says:

Did anyone find a long form birth certificate in the rubble?

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 10:56 am
Administrator says:

Agandu

More questions, no answers. Who, How Why?

PLEASE, PLEASE explain how thousands of demolition experts rigged 3 of the largest buildings in the world without ANYONE stepping forward with a guilty conscience to admit they were in on the massive plot.

You assholes and morons NEVER answer that question because you can’t. It destroys your warped little conspiracy blatherings in one fell swope.

I await your answer. I’m sure it will be a link.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 11:04 am
fwiw imho says:

The same one that was left on the grassy knoll?

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 11:04 am
Tampa Gold says:

Stop looking at the mirror Agau and straighten out your tin hat.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:04 am
Administrator says:

Yojimbo

As usual, you truthers got nothing. Nothing but questions. No answers. No reality. No facts. Just questions. Feeble mind is a compliment to the idiots spewing this drivel.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 11:06 am
matt says:

Will someone please post a link to footage of a jet slamming into the Pentagon?

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 11:14 am
Tampa Gold says:

matt:

Maybe you can interview one of the many eye witnesses.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 11:30 am
Agandau says:

Administrator says:

“Agandu

More questions, no answers. Who, How Why?”

The only question I asked was “Hmm, I’m disappointed with your ad hoc attack on me. Are you saying that the fact that I have questions about the defining moment in my lifetime translates to a lack of intelligence?”

Care to answer, or am I supposed to respond to your questions.

“PLEASE, PLEASE explain how thousands of demolition experts rigged 3 of the largest buildings in the world without ANYONE stepping forward with a guilty conscience to admit they were in on the massive plot.”

How should I know! The fact that every question is not answerable does not equal none of the facts are questionable. If it were true that if not all questions are answerable then none are questionable we’d never discover anything, we’d still be living in Europe thinking that the world was flat. It takes a weak and non-inquisitive mind to be stopped by such a roadblock.

“You assholes and morons NEVER answer that question because you can’t.”

I’m sure this has stopped many debates with weak minds so you keep using this strawman tactic. But it adds nothing to the understanding of what happened 9 years ago, it’s a cop out.

“It destroys your warped little conspiracy blatherings in one fell swope.”

Swoop is what I believe you meant.

“I await your answer. I’m sure it will be a link”

Sorry, no link. I can debate without third party validation.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 11:42 am
Administrator says:

Agandu

Thanks for clearing it up. “How should I know!”

Your entire conspiracy theory falls apart because there is no way it could have been done without someone stepping forward. Use your noggin.

I will attack and obliterate any moron who posts that 9/11 was an inside job.

Like or Dislike: 0 5

10th September 2010 at 11:47 am
Administrator says:

Matt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:53 am
Mike Endres says:

Holy Toledo, Pogo! I can’t believe there are this many dinks in one place at multiple times!

Who caused the 9/11/2001 disaster? We know that 17 out of 19 came from Saudi Arabia. I’d give you large odds that at least 15 of that 17 also spent their years from 4 or 5 to 18 in a madrasa in Saudi where their wee brains were mashed into Islamic Pudding by the Imams who brain washed them. They literally lived to die for Islam.

It’s simple. Islam killed 3000 people on 9/11/2001 (more than at Pearl Harbor on 12/7/1941) and Islam is a religion of death, destruction and subjugation and will remain so. If you don’t believe it’s a religion of violence, what do you make of all the violence that was generated world wide ( even people killed ) over one retarded fundamentalist preacher living in the woods North of where I live that wanted to burn a book (and very likely never even thought about the First Amendment).

Conspiracy theorists make me constipated. (Rule #1a of conspiracy law: Conspiracies always fail when more than one person is involved).

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 11:59 am
matt says:

thanks for the info

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 12:01 pm
StuckInNJ says:

“I welcome this historical change to Descendency. After all we are talking about coming down from the hyper-mountain of excess, arrogance, hubris, recklessness, irresponsibility, war, rape and plunder. America …”

Apollo – you do get enormous enjoyment visualizing the downfall of America, don’t you? Eeeeeeeeevil America. Once eeeevil America goes down, ALL will be well in the world. Right?

But, I have a News Flash for you.

America will be replaced by SOME OTHER COUNTRY that will be a “hyper-mountain of excess, arrogance, hubris, recklessness, irresponsibility, war, rape and plunder.”

Check your history books.

Then again, I believe you live in Sam Cook’s 1960 song, “Wonderful World”. It’s the one that starts out with, “Don’t know much about history ….”

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 12:33 pm
Yojimbo says:

Jim

I found the article you posted on the USS Liberty. Allow me to exerpt a piece of it:

A FAIR PROBE WOULD ATTACK LIBERTY MISINFORMATION
by Thomas Moorer

While State Department officials and historians converge on
Washington this week to discuss the 1967 war in the
Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S.
history’s most shocking cover-ups.

On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked our proud naval ship — the USS
Liberty — killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172.
Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own
government.

U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled — not once, but
twice — through direct intervention by the Johnson
administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara’s
cancellation of the Navy’s attempt to rescue the Liberty, which
I confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America
and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my
entire military career.

To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to
hold formal hearings on Israel’s attack on this American ship.
No official investigation of the attack has ever permitted
the testimony of the surviving crew members.

A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports
are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its
senior attorney. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit,
recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House
to cover up the incident and find that Israel’s attack was “a
case of mistaken identity.”

Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent
commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After
an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other
military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors,
we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They
include:

* Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the Liberty
during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying
within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was
clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly
marked American ship in international waters, flying an American
flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on
its bow.

* Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the
Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the Liberty was
conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It
was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in
1967. With its massive radio antennae, including a large
satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of
the most easily identifiable ships afloat.

* Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty’s radio operators from
sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio
channels.

* Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range
that had been lowered to rescue the most-seriously wounded.

[Back to my comments]

Allow me to apply the same standard of proof you your contention that the USS Liberty was deliberately attacked by Israel in full knowledge that it was an American Vessel.

Who ordered the attack? I want specific names, ranks, and evidence of how you know this.

Why did they order the attack? I want specific, documented motivations, not just speculation.

How do you know that the Israeli airmen clearly saw the American flag? Show evidence.

I don’t want to see or hear testimony from American servicemen. Their testimony is pure speculation. The essence of the Official story is that it was a mistake by Israel. To disprove this, you must prove the knowledge and intent on the side of Israel.

There must have been hundreds of Israeli servicemen and women involved in the attack, in the jamming of signals, in the chain of command, etc. Why haven’t any of them come forward to tell the truth? If no one has, by your reasoning, then you are simply wrong. The official story is correct.

Why are you posting an article by someone else (Thomas Moorer)? You must go obtain the evidence yourself and substantiate it here on this site. Anything less and you are an idiot and conspiracy theorist. Don’t post allegations by this Moorer that what he says is true. Where are his footnotes and documentation?

You are clearly an anti-Semite and anti-dentite, and I will attack and obliterate any moron that posts that the attack on the USS Liberty was anything but a mistake.

Cue the sounds of American servicemen dying onboard the USS Liberty.

Like or Dislike: 3 1

10th September 2010 at 12:38 pm
ssgconway says:

Some Americans do know what losing in a Fourth Turning scenario looks like. They’re Southerners. From ’65 until ’65 the South knew occupation, poverty, racial violence, extremism, and a sense of loss that cast a pallor over their distinct culture. Even now, their traditional way of life is being submerged under sprawl, commercialization and excess that make Atlanta more unrecognizable to someone who has not seen it since 1940 that would be the case, even in ruins, of my native Detroit.
Some of their writers understood the Fourth Turning, even if they did not know the concept or use the term. Sam Watkins, a Confederate private who write a minor classic when he penned his memoirs, “Co. Aytch,” of the war some 20 years afterward, couched the war in parable. he said that it started because some folks had a notion that America had a North, a South, an East and a West. He mentioned the ‘fire-eaters’ of the 1850s – Yancy and the prophetically-named Toombs. After recounting his experiences with the Tennessee Maurey Greys, he concludes by stating that there is now, No North, no South, no East, no West. We are one and undivided.” (The last sentence in italics.)
100 years of poverty, loss, racial strife, outside interference and then absorption into a culture that their forefathers would have held as anathema – this the price of failure, and less than others in history have paid – for failing to rise to the moment. May we be better than we, as a nation, seem, in our hour of trial.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 1:55 pm
ragman says:

Tampa: the jets were filled with Commercial Jet A/kerosene which has more energy/pound than JP4/Jet B, a wide cut gasoline-kero mix the AF used to use. Thus, the fire would be even more intense with the Jet A.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 2:16 pm
Yojimbo says:

By the way, I firmly believe that the attack on the USS Liberty was a deliberate attempt to have the US enter the war. It was a false flag operation, and the US military command was complicit in covering it up.

Luckily, I don’t have Jim’s ultra rigorous standards in proving conspiracy theories. I rely on others to do the scholarship, and then I use my best judgment to decide on which side the the greater truth lies.

And my point is that it is far harder to prove an alternate theory than to disprove the official theory. In the story of the USS Liberty, most articles point out all the inconsistencies and the points that simply don’t make sense or add up. Then, they postulate the opposite, without having clear proof.

That is all I am saying about 9/11. The official story does not make sense. Therefore it is disproved. Therefore it could not be as the gubbermint would like us to believe.

Do I need to quote Machiavelli? Do I need to quote 1984?

Believe what you want to believe (for none of us can know the absolute truth about anything) and then take action from that point forward. I choose to believe that most of what the gubbermint tells us are lies.

Like or Dislike: 4 0

10th September 2010 at 2:56 pm
Tampa Gold says:

Thanks ragman. I stand corrected.

1984….zzz…zzz…zzZZZ….

Lets come out of Fantasyland and return to reality.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 4:02 pm
Smokey says:

All Truthers eat shit.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 4:45 pm
Yojimbo says:

On a very profound level, Smokey is absolutely correct.

To view the Treason that occurred on 9/11 is to see the cruelty and depravity of which the human soul is capable. Seeing the events honestly and realizing the horror and untold suffering that those individuals perpetrated on the world is to have one’s mouth filled with bitterness and an unpalatable truth.

To contemplate the unthinkable is truly to, as Smokey alludes, “eat shit”. There is nothing more distasteful. No wonder that so many refuse to consider the possibility that a military coup occurred on 9/11 and that we lost our Republic and so many servicemen to a Lie.

Kudos, Smokey. Well said. I salute you.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 5 0

10th September 2010 at 5:30 pm
red says:

After 35 years with the federal gov, I can assure you that the norm is to lie. I found it all too rare that those in power in the gov would “do the right thing” and fess up to a mistake. You have to understand the mentality and that’s an article in itself. Low to upper-level conspiracies existed as a matter of course and they were absolutely defended. It’s something I fought against until the day I retired.

I was a career firefighter. Though I’ve been on suppression efforts on a number of structure fires and witnessed hundreds of structure fires, I saw it all from the perspective of a wildland firefighter. I was also very involved in the aviation world with firefighting helicopters. A couple observations from the real world:

1. Jet A burns fiercely (when atomized), but generally only for a short time. We termed it a “flash fire” and our precautions against personal injury in case of a crash/fire took that into account. Softening steel via Jet A, in an open environment, would be a stretch. No pun intended.

2. Structures in the US are generally very well engineered and built. This would include high rises. But even regular stick built wood frame structures-fully involved- take an incredibly long time to collapse; generally, all other parts of the building are consumed by the time the stud walls collapse- that includes furnishings, siding, etc. I doubt the NY firefighters who climbed those buildings felt they had much to worry about with the structure collapsing. They and their company officers would take all possiblities into account. I find it very hard to believe they saw that risk as more than a very outside chance. The number one rule any emergency personnel observes is to not become a victim and require rescue.

3. After 25 years of dropping trees, I have been amazed at how little of the tree needs to remain to support the whole tree. Fire can eat away at 90% of the holding wood of a tree, leaving just a small amount – on one side sometimes, not necesssarily center-supported- and it will still stand. How does this relate to #2? Well, to defy gravity with a tree or a building, nature or man needs a pretty good plan- a plan that won’t be completely undone except by the most extreme of damage. Was a jetliner impacting the tower enough? Was the ensuing fire enough? Not sure, but if the equivalent damage to a tree (in a forest fire) was enough to drop it- unexpectedly and straight down- I’d have never survived more than a few years of my career. In fact, fire and the fuels it burns are more predictable than that. (As an aside, when trees do fall out of the blue, it’s because the roots have been burned through, ie, the support at the base. Sever that base and it’ll fall)

One last thing; I have long felt that a closed minded person is one to keep your eye on. Jim Quinn seems such a person. I know that in my profession, we are trained to use our own judgement and never to blindly follow. Only a fool would depend on a government-inspired certainty. Understanding this has literally allowed me to survive. Quinn’s vehement adherence to a strict idea about 911 is a warning sign.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: 6 0

10th September 2010 at 5:31 pm
ragman says:

Tampa: not to correct, sir, simply to amplify your excellent post.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 6:51 pm
StuckInNJ says:

Yojimbo –

The USS Liberty fiasco, even when it happened, changed by view of Israel forever. That is to say they are not really our “friends”. They also spy on us. They use us for their purposes. And that’s that.

But I don’t quite get the comparison to 9-11.

A TRUE 9-11 comparison would be this; “No, the bullets, missles, and bombs did not damage the USS LIberty. It only looked that way. What really happened is that US soldiers rigged the USS Liberty beforehand.”

Like or Dislike: 1 4

10th September 2010 at 7:18 pm
Yojimbo says:

Stuck In NJ

I am not comparing 9/11 with the USS Liberty attack.

I am comparing the form of argument that Jim has evidently accepted regarding the USS Liberty incident, but will not accept with regard to 9/11.

In the Liberty incident, he accepts that offering facts that disprove the official theory thereby proves the opposite. In the article he posted, there is no proof offered that Israel had full knowledge that it was attacking a US commissioned vessel.

But in the case of 9/11, he insisted (in a response to me) that I need to positively prove the alternate theory of 9/11 by asking who did it, why, and how. I, apparently, cannot simply offer proof disproving the official theory.

This is having a double standard in regard to the two cases of High Treason.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 8:25 pm
Reverse Engineer says:

The main problem with a 4th Turning analysis is it looks at cycles from too short a timeframe. This particular cycle collapse is of a much longer variety, occurring at intervals of around 1600 years or so. What we are heading into here resembles much more the Collapse of the Roman Empire than it does the Stock Market collapse of 1929.

This collapse isn’t one we will emerge from in a few years with a “Rebirth”. We are heading into a period of Death and Destruction that will make the Black Plague look like the Good Times. If we do emerge out at the other end for a Rebirth, it will only happen after the population size has been reduced by 90% or more. A downside overshoot to species extinction is also quite possible.

See You on the Other Side.

RE

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 8:27 pm
Smokey says:

Yojimbo said “Kudos Smokey. Well said. I salute you. “—–Thank-you. Now that you have ADMITTED that all Truthers eat shit, you, red and expat can salute my dick, you deluded mongoloid douchebags.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 8:28 pm
Administrator says:

Yojimbo

Do you understand the difference between a coverup and a conspiracy to murder 3000 people? Do you really need me to explain this to you? Based on the thumbs up and thumbs down on tha various posts, it appears that there are many conspiracy knuckleheads out there who choose not to think.

Like or Dislike: 2 4

10th September 2010 at 8:38 pm
Administrator says:

ragman

You are dealing with facts. The loser truthers prefer fantasy. Stop providing truthful data. The truthers don’t like to think.

Like or Dislike: 1 5

10th September 2010 at 8:55 pm
Administrator says:

Yojimbo

I still await your explanation of how the thousands of demolition experts rigged the buildings in advance without anyone suspecting what they were doing and then have kept silent about murdering 3000 innocent Americans for the last 9 years.

Any of you clueless moron numbskull truthers feel free to jump in and explain this to everyone.

Sound of crickets.

Like or Dislike: 1 4

10th September 2010 at 9:01 pm
Administrator says:

red

More bullshit. Your years of government work truly make you an expert.

Again, you retard, explain HOW, WHO & WHY? It is easy to say something couldn’t happen. That is all you truthers ever do. EVER.

THE FACT that the building could not be rigged in advance proves that it didn’t happen. Can you get it through your thick skull?

Like or Dislike: 1 4

10th September 2010 at 9:06 pm
Administrator says:

Stuck

Trying to reason with a truther is like trying to explain to DP that sex with sheep is wrong. Useless.

Like or Dislike: 1 4

10th September 2010 at 9:11 pm
FlatCat says:

why have they not released the security surveillance video which had the trajectory of the object that impacted the Pentagon? They raced in the took it before it could be examined or posted somewhere. They released a few frames…wth…which inspire more questions than answers. Why was the smell of cordite in the air? Liars All…

Like or Dislike: 4 0

10th September 2010 at 9:48 pm
hugh betcha says:

jim, you might clear up your stance on 9/11 truthers vs. coverups by explaining what you think about 9/11. as for me: the facts are full of holes. was it stalin who said the bigger the lie and more often it’s told then the easier it is for the masses to believe?

anyway this quote by “red” posted above has merit based on your posts on this thread.

“One last thing; I have long felt that a closed minded person is one to keep your eye on. Jim Quinn seems such a person. I know that in my profession, we are trained to use our own judgement and never to blindly follow. Only a fool would depend on a government-inspired certainty. Understanding this has literally allowed me to survive. Quinn’s vehement adherence to a strict idea about 911 is a warning sign.”

i also agree with “Reverse Engineer” post above, we’re not likely to get out of this in a normal 4th turning 20 year cycle. i have no faith that the 100+ million americans who are completely unable to care for themselves will go quietly to starvation. they have nothing to barder with and even their labor skills are suspect, i won’t let them on my farm to muck stalls in trade for eggs or beef. why? i couldn’t trust them to not be casing the joint looking for a way back in at 3am to steal what they think they deserve.

my guess is that there are maybe 50 million americans who absolutely deserve to survive this, call them the savers or doers or responsible americans. the rest…. good riddence!

i have 3 good trees in the front yard for hangings i won’t be surprised if they get used in the next decade. when commerce collapses all bets are off and it will be survival of the fittest and prepared. no government no marshall law no nothing can stop 200 million starving people from losing it.

no matter how hard anyone tries there is no way emergency services will even slow this trainwreck down once it enters real collapse. it’s gonna be ugly and it’s gonna last decades and it’s gonna be global. and since no one in power is doing a dam thing to even slow it down it gonna be excelerated and carved in stone.

why? because nobody (in power) can believe it can happen. i read about upper middle class and elites updating passports and planning to leave america if things look worse. i have to laugh at them. good riddence!

it’ll take a really strong individual surrounded by a really strong and loyal group of like minded locals to make it through this and in my thinking if you’re not residing on good farmland with that group and working as one with a common goal of simple survival your odds are slim. mad max is a movie character and going this alone is really foolish.

lastly, everyone thinking they’d like a shot at surviving this coming mess needs to find/join/form that group now because once it’s needed it’s needed from day one and it must already be producing most of what you need for day to day survival and security. and it needs to be mostly invisible so the military or gov’t doesn’t take it away from you on day two.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 10:14 pm
kumanari says:

I must roll with Red on this one as a former marine firefighter and demolitions trainee with Pyro Spectacular.
I have much respect for Jim. But……
Because one has no answers does not mean they are wrong or stupid or anything else. Please desist from the name calling, you loose credibility with that tactic. My father was a detective and he used to say “All questions must be answered before I will send a person to his death.” We helped him solve several cases by asking stupid questions as kids. Your thesis may be correct about 911 but a quick scan of comments shows many people disagree. They read your essays because they respect you,I presume, as do I. To denigrate them because they are not as articulate, intelligent, resourceful as you is bad form.I know you must get tired of hearing from these people BECAUSE you disagree with them, just don’t reply. The readers will/or have made up their own minds. I don’t argue 911 with anyone because it does no good.It’s another distraction from the real problems we face. I’ve been warning friends, family, and strangers about the imminent collapse of the $iat system since 04, some of them are coming out of the fog now. Same thing most people believe what is easiest for them.
A hui hou malama pono.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 10:20 pm
Novista says:

@ Administratuh

“PLEASE, PLEASE explain how thousands of demolition experts rigged 3 of the largest buildings in the world without ANYONE stepping forward with a guilty conscience to admit they were in on the massive plot.”

Would G. Gordon Liddy have a gulity conscience ever? Oh, that’s a question, disregard.

Hint: remember JFK quoting his father on “hostages to fortune” and you have answer.

Btw, what’s a ‘swope’? At least you can spell asshole.

@ Smokey, I wanted to salute your dick but it’s just like Venkman to Peck in Ghostbusters.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 10:21 pm
Smokey says:

Novista, you stupid fucking dupe. Salute my ass instead. Fucking inbred.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 10:33 pm
Administrator says:

hugh

Anyone who reads this blog regularly knows that I think government is incompetent, corrupt, inept, stupid and worthless. They can barely manage themselves out of a wet paper bag. They can’t do anything well. ANYTHING.

So you expect me or anyone with 2 brain cells to believe that incompetent boobs could pull off the the biggest most complex conspiracy in the history of mankind?

Really? Do you really believe they are capable? Really?

Like or Dislike: 0 5

10th September 2010 at 10:37 pm
Administrator says:

kumanari

I don’t care who respects or doesn’t respect me. I couldn’t give a shit. I will attack, denigrate and obliterate any moron who chooses to make idiotic comments on my site.

You blather on for a paragraph and say nothing.

WHO, HOW, WHY? A detective worth a shit would see that 9/11 could not be an inside job because it is IMPOSSIBLE. PLEASE. PLEASE, PLEASE give me any reasonable explanation of how thousands of demolition experts could possibly rig three of the largest buildings in the entire world for demolition without anyone suspecting what they were doing. Then after the murder of 3,000 innocent people, NOT ONE out of a thousand people involved in this massive plot has had a guilty conscience and has come forward to admit what they did.

Do you realize how assanine you truthers sound. I await any explanation of how this was pulled off.

THE SOUND OF CRICKETS IS DEAFENING!!!!!

If I’ve offended any readers, tough shit. Get off the site and never come back.

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 10:43 pm
Administrator says:

Novista

Do you honestly believe that there were 1,000 G Gordon Liddys involved? Is your contention that 1,000 demolition experts brought down the towers and every one of them has kept quiet?

Like or Dislike: 0 4

10th September 2010 at 10:46 pm
Smokey says:

Administrator—–There you go again speaking rationally, logically. FYI, they don’t WANT to believe that 9/11 begins and ends with a terrorist attack, no matter how compelling the evidence. They WANT to believe that there was a sinister, diabolical plot carried out on the world stage. It does not make a shit how implausible the plot. Truthers will grasp firmly any shred of nonsense to support their conspiracy wish. And they ignore any and all evidence that screams loudly at the absurdity of a 9/11 conspiracy. I will say that I am surprised at how many dupes are members here. I had no idea this board was so full of fools.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 10:48 pm
Administrator says:

I find it fascinating that an article about the Fourth Turning has become a magnet for retarded truthers. The article had nothing to do with the actual attack on the WTC. It was about the mood of the country.

It is clear that the truthers are only capable of narrow thought. They are so focused on their conspiracy theories that they can’t be distracted by thinking or trying to see the big picture.

I’d invite all the truther numbskulls to leave the site and gather someplace else to feed their delusions.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 10:52 pm
red says:

Straight man: I didn’t come here to be insulted!

Groucho Marx: Oh yeah? Where do you normally go?

You and several of your cronies here are truly a hoot, admin. Why, I had no idea that such tough, (say, some mustard just dripped on your shirt from your hoagie…) stalwart guys existed in the cyber world. You know (and is that a little filling from a Twinkie on your keyboard?), I used to save my deepest respect for those who actually did heroic things, jobs like fireman, combat soldier and the like. But it turns out that (hey now, put down that porn mag, this is important!) all you really have to do is park your fat, pasty butt in front of a computer and, voila!, you’re a bonafide tough guy! Suddenly you’re able to fling insults like the good old days, say when you were 12 years old. No sir, none of that running into burning buildings, dodging bullets or spending an adult lifetime making your living on the open sea or hard rock mining…….

By God, YOU ARE my hero, admin!

Excuse me, I gotta go, the tears of gratitude won’t stop……..

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 10:53 pm
Administrator says:

red

Did we hurt your feewlings? I’m glad I’m your hero. You are my bitch red. Now go back to your truther convention with the other retards incapable of thought and reason. Bend over big guy.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 10:59 pm
Smokey says:

red—–Since you say you were a firefighter, that makes you an intelligent person. You should really have special insight into the 9/11 towers. You are a bonafide sleuth. You really have that mystery solved. Nobody can pull anything over on you. You are too smart to fall for any tricks. You are a mystery solver. A man with keen analytical skills. —-A fucking inbred, maggot-infested douchebag. You and all of the rest of the duped Truthers eat dog shit.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 11:06 pm
Administrator says:

Smokey

I think DP should create his own site: American Traitors for 9/11 Truth, Without Facts

Then all of the truthers I’ve offended today can quit my site and join DP’s site. They can discuss gravity, explosives, jet fuel, video clips of the Pentagon, and how to properly fuck a sheep.

Like or Dislike: 0 3

10th September 2010 at 11:09 pm
Novista says:

@ Ad~

“Do you honestly believe that there were 1,000 G Gordon Liddys involved? Is your contention that 1,000 demolition experts brought down the towers and every one of them has kept quiet?”

You were demanding an explanation, I offered two possibilities of motivation to not speak out.

I am not a truther, nor do I contend 1,000 (your assumption) — I only question your ability to stay on topic. If we’re playing the “you’re either with me or agin me” game, you lose.

To make you happy, here’s a link:

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 11:11 pm
hugh betcha says:

whatever 9/11 was i don’t really care. . i believe our government is our biggest enemy and i won’t be surprised if i die at their hand someday soon. but i will go cussing their evil souls and spitting in their eye for betraying what was once a pretty darn great country. there are dc based politicians i would/will have drawn and quartered if the opportunity presents itself once the mad max world becomes reality all bts are off.

i once believed that america would wakeup in time to divert disaster. no longer though. i see our gov’t as not just inept but criminal in their actions. while the world is still going around on it’s axis they are all held unaccountable but once the shit hits the fan they will no longer have the protection of dc to hide in and while i doubt any of them will be roaming the streets in my neighborhood they will be somewhere and i’ll be simply one of millions they will be wanting to avoid. while i don’t get much satisfaction from these thoughts i’ll admit that i get some.

what gets me is how people aware of what’s unfolding and even dotting their i’s and crossing their t’s in their research consistantly overlook the people living in jims 30 blocks of squaller. there are 10′s of millions of them spread across the country. they will not be staying home and passing quietly into the night. that role will be played by the good and real americans who are currently in their 60′s and above. marshall law won’t contain them either. nothing will. if the free shit army is going to die it will be us 50 million or so savers/doers that will take them out as we defend our own stuff. stuff we worked hard to earn and maintain. the real wealth left in america isn’t money it’s basic life skills and the tools and equipment we use.

yes, i’m rooting for the collapse i want a swift and complete collapse. wipe the slate clean collapse. then we need a generation 20-40 years of scraping along the bottom to weed out those who survived by accident. then we can rebuild america on a stronger foundation.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 11:41 pm
Smokey says:

Administrator—-I think that’s a great idea. Of course, DP must be the leader. They can fantasize 9/11 WTC plots while they fuck sheep and circle jerk.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:44 pm
Smokey says:

hugh betcha—–There is a button on the mid-left portion of your computer keyboard. It says CAPS LOCK. The purpose of that key is for when, occasionally, a fucking retarded idiot wants to type a comment on a blog, it allows him to capitalize the appropriate words in his message. So, if you happen to see any of those stupid, dumbass fools who don’t know how to type a comment on a blog properly, please pass this vital secret on to them. The people who need to hear the message are easily recognizable because they are inbreds, typically Downs afflicted, and have sub-50 IQ’s.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:53 pm
red says:

Judge: How do you plead to the charges?
Mrs Quinn: Guilty, your honor, but with an explanation
Judge: Go on
Mrs Quinn: Well, he, ahhhh, he-
Judge: Mrs Quinn, does your son have a “problem”? Does he perhaps suffer from Turets Syndrome?
Mrs Quinn: Sir?
Judge: Well, the charges are a public nuisance, specifically shouting random expletives and insults to any and all passers-by
Mrs Quinn: I’m sure he’ll grow out of it!
Judge: How old is he?
Mrs Quinn: 45
Judge: Hmmm. We are really jammed up here today. I’ve a mind to just drop this and send him home.
Mrs Quinn: Oh, could you? I have his favorite meal in mind- mac and cheese!
Judge: He lives with you?
Mrs Quinn: Yes, he never has moved out; still in the same bedroom since ’65!
Judge: Any reason why you have your toy poodle in the courtroom?
Jimmie: Smokey goes where I go.
Judge: He had his shots? He looks like he’s foaming.
Jimmie: No, but we got his balls cut off a while back
Judge; You checking on that right now, are you?
Jimmie: Uh, uh, no.
Judge: All right, were getting nowhere here. 6 months probation- see the clerk. And don’t let me see you again! Bailiff, let’s see the next case.

Judge: Mr. ah red, you are charged with commenting on an internet article. According to this transcript of some of the comments rebutting you, you are stupid and a retard. How do you plead?
red: Guilty as charged to commenting and being stupid. I’ve been told I am definitely not a retard.
Judge: Well, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. Ok , it’s no crime to be stupid, but no more commenting on those internet articles- you understand me? None!. See the clerk. Bailiff, next case!

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 1:02 am
Novista says:

The evidence of the real conspiracy is what’s happening right here: divide and conquer.

Many of the truther questions and quibbles would easily be answered by release of existing evidence. That no single image of an aircraft hitting the Pentagon implies they want people fighting amongst themselves. They consolidate, we distract ourselves.

Like or Dislike: 3 0

10th September 2010 at 2:24 am
Expat says:

Jim,
I don’t consider myself a “truther” (Is that a neologism created by Sarah Palin, by the way?), rather I have unanswered questions about 9/11 and the ensuing change of policy and mentality in America. You do, of course, realize that your fathers and grandfathers probably castigated their friends and neighbors who questionned the Pueblo, Tonkin, Dallas, Watergate, My Lai, and other government cover-ups, calling this commies, traitors, and America-haters along with more classic “disphits, morons, and dumbfucks.”

I am not sure just how long you have been off your meds, but it’s pretty sickening to see your reactions. I am curious to know if you taught your sons to treat others this way or if this sort of thing is encouraged in your classes. Do you hurls insults at your wife when she disagrees with you?

I have no issues with you being passionate, but being blindly passionate about your beliefs to the point of verbally abusing anyone who disagrees is hardly conducive to spreading your message. Or perhaps you really only want your strictest followers reading your articles. I don’t know. I am not as sure of everything as you seem to be. In fact, I have been taught to be wary of people of who are sure of the Truth.

Now, feel free to heap more abuse on me, tossing in scathing comments about how “whiny” I am, how I can fuck off if I don’t agree, how I am still a moron, how I have no right to comment on or question your personal life, how I represent everything that is wrong with all the people who don’t agree with you, etc.

I, on the other hand, will continue to read your articles because they help provide a full picture of what all parts of the economic and political spectrum think. I will read Move0n articles, watch clips from Fox News, peruse the Big Picture, parse Krugman, and read The Burning Platform.

You, on the other hand, should start taking your Ritalin again.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 4:05 am
Novista says:

It’s a cage match, True Believers vs. Truthers, oh, what fun! A very entertaining weekend.

Well, Jim, “THE FACT that the building could not be rigged in advance proves that it didn’t happen. ”

Bravo. Only, Suzette Haden Elgin, PhD, linguistics, has an approach using the phrase “suppose it were true?” You have ONE scenario that is self-refutable — think outside the box and imagine variations. Published facts suggest a number of opportunities it could have happened (and not likely requiring 1,000 experts, in my scenario. I did give you a clue or so of options.”)

Your second assumption is, since the government is incompetent, it could not have pulled off the vast conspiracy. No other alternatives?

How’d you like Conleezza’s screed on the events in the White House bunker? So droll, you couldn’t make it up, and yes, it shouts of incompetence.

Where’s your supporting evidence of your assumptions? You cannot even call on the 911 Commission Report, since Kean and Hamilton have repudiated their own work. So you run up a phalanx of straw men and here I am with a match.

‘aveagoodweelemd!

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 8:02 am
Robmu1 says:

There is a lot of funny shit here. I nearly choked when Yojimbo referred to that idiot lunatic Webster Tarpley as a ‘scholar’. The 9/11 Boneheads have responded in force (It must be boring in mom’s basement, where 92% of 9/11 truthers live). Anyway, I do have a question for you 9/11-was-an-inside- job-people: I would imagine that a conspiracy of this magnitude would require hundreds of thousands of man hours of planning. How did the co-conspirators think that they could just knock down Building 7 without a fake plane hitting it? I mean, didn’t they know that all you smart 9/11 truther people would pick up on that? Seems like they made a terrible mistake there. Taking it a bit further, why didn’t they use a big fake plane at the Pentagon and not a small fake plane? Did they run out of time?

Like or Dislike: 1 1

10th September 2010 at 9:08 am
Agandau says:

Robmu

Webster Tarpley is a lunatic.

Putting aside the question of what the conspirators might have been thinking about WTC7 can you explain why that 47 story building fell? It was not hit by a plane, had several small fires, suffered a rapid onset of collapse (verses slow deformation that would normally be expected from a from a fire damaged building), fell through the area of MOST resistance into it’s own footprint and did all this at free fall acceleration?

Demanding that questions concerning the ability be answered in order to considered the evidence of a crime is just plain dumb IMhO. I do however find it amusing that the same people who doubt the ability of the criminal elements that have taken over the greatest country and economy in the world to pull off 9/11 have no problem with the same complexities being executed on a laptop in a cave in Afghanistan.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 9:43 am
Administrator says:

red

It is good that you were able to take time out from the truther sheep fuck convention to develop a sitcom. I hear JFK is on today. You can sit in front of your TV and jerk off to it. Do you have any ideas about detective dads that bring up morons? By the number of thumbs up you received, it appears that the 9/11 truther retards are still onboard. I guess no other sites will have you mongoloids.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 10:10 am
Administrator says:

Expat

I have asked the same question 10 times in this thread. Has anyone even attempted to answer the question? NO

They can’t answer the question because what they have proposed could not have happened. Their conspiracy theories all go out the window, because it couldn’t have been done.

I BEG ANY OF THE TRUTHERS OUT THERE to answer my question.

SOUND OF CRICKETS. Make sure you give me a thumbs down.

It is so sad that I’ve disappointed so many of you believers.

To all the dejected conspiracy boneheads, don’t let the door hit you in the ass as you depart TBP.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 10:17 am
Administrator says:

Novista

You are the one who brought up the us versus them scenario. Did you read the article? It had absolutely nothing to do with who committed the act. The article is about the Fourth Turning, the mood of the American public and what happens next. Truthers could care less about such issues. They are consumed by their theories and conspiracies.

The truthers swarmed the site with their bullshit immediately. Anyone who has been on my site for the last two years realizes that if you don’t have facts to back up your argument, I will obliterate you. I had the facts when Jason pulled the plug on my old site. I really don’t care who I offend.

Anyone who has been offended can hit the fucking road.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 10:24 am
Administrator says:

Robmu1

Didn’t you realize that the planes that supposedly hit the Twin Towers were holograms? Come on. Use the nutty part of your brain to visualize the conspiracy. Dick Cheney was coordinating it all from his secret bunker. Bush kept reading to the little kids until he was sure that all the planes had accomplished their missions. All those cell phone calls from the hijacked planes were faked. Everyone knows that Turner Construction rigged all the buildings at night when no one was looking. We need DP to hold classes on TBP to teach all the unbelievers about gravity, desertion, anthrax uses, sheep fucking, and conspiracy 101.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 10:32 am
Administrator says:

Agandu

A $39 deadbolt lock on the cabin doors of the 4 airliners would have stopped 9/11 from happening. That is an example of government incompetence. The FAA has a budget in the multi-billions, but couldn’t figure out that it was dangerous to have the doors to the cabin unsecured.

You really think bureaucrats this idiotic, stupid and moronic could pull off the greatest conspiracy in history with NO ONE involved EVER coming forward to admit their guilt.

Do you people ever think?

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 10:38 am
Smokey says:

Administrator——If 9/11 had truly been a conspiracy, an intentional act, look at the payoff for any person(s) who was to later squeal. Surely, he, she or they could get a high powered attorney and get total amnesty for revealing the plot. They could then go on television and talk about how their love for their fellow American compelled them to come forward. They would then receive a minimum of tens of millions of dollars-probably hundreds of millions–for rights to their tell all book(s). I mean, the number of holes in the conspiracy plot advocated by Truthers is fucking staggering. The stupidity of the people that believe 9/11 was staged is mind-numbing.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:06 am
Agandau says:

Ok Admin, you continue to use the lack of an answer to your supreme question as a reason to insult so I will offer an opinion since no one can truly answer such a question.

Your supreme question;

“PLEASE, PLEASE explain how thousands of demolition experts rigged 3 of the largest buildings in the world without ANYONE stepping forward with a guilty conscience to admit they were in on the massive plot.”

Scientists and researchers have documented the existence of thousands of neo-thermite chips in the dust from the WTC collapse. The chips are rust colored on one side, the same as primer used on metal, gray on the other side, same as would be used as a top coat on metal. Neo-thermite is not reactive, explosive nor dangerous in anyway when wet, it would only become active once it is dry and set off. The poor souls who provided the labor of putting the neo-thermite in place would not have known what he was doing. We do know that there was a major upgrade to the elevator shafts in the weeks leading up to 9/11 and the elevator shafts would have been an excellent time for a small number of operatives to place the charges to set off the “paint” that could have been added at almost anytime in the year prior.

Now, the other unanswered question concerns “conspiracy theory”. That 9/11 was a conspiracy is not really in question, the fact that more than one person was involved is not in dispute. There are many facts that are not proven and even the FBI’s Top 10 list Osama bin Forgotten is charged with terrorist acts, 9/11 is NOT one of them and the FBI explains that is because there is no evidence that he was behind the attacks, so it is all still very much theories on all sides.

Can “conspiracy theories” turn out to be true and can they be kept a secret? Sometimes it can be kept a secret for a very long time, I can only list the ones that were eventually exposed;

Watergate, Operation Mockingbird, The Dreyfus Affair, Tuskegee Syphillis Study, The Manhattan Project, Iran – Contra, Operation Northwoods, COINTELPRO, Operation Paperclip, Pearl Harbor (Btw, our commander in Chief allowed the murder of Americans in THAT operation as well and was kept secret for a very long time)

Finally, why has no one come forward and exposed the crime? Same reason no one ever rats on the Mafia, if you were involved with the type of Evil that would plan and execute such an event, would you take the money or expose the plan? And to whom would you confess? The very people who have taken over the government and Wall Street? Get real!

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 11:11 am
Smokey says:

red—-You’re a real funny guy. And such a gifted writer.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:14 am
Mike Endres says:

I can’t believe this garbage is still going on. It stopped being interesting last night before I went beddy-bye. Conspiracy theorists must be the new energizer bunny, they just keep going and going and going.

I yearn for a dead battery..

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 11:39 am
Administrator says:

Agandau

Sorry. Scientists did not find what you claim. That bullshit has been debunked. I direct you to IGNORANCE IS BLISS for a tutorial in conspiracy debunking. Enjoy.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 11:46 am
Jon says:

Jim, I started reading The Fourth Turning last night. I imagine I’ll have a blog post about it before too long.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 12:50 pm
StuckInNJ says:

Yojimbo –

From the 4th Turning — to 9-11 conspiracy — to the USS Liberty. We’re covering a lot of ground here.

I will make one and only one more additional comment on the USS Liberty. We can start a seperate thread or recall Jim’s thread if we want to continue the discussion.

Anyway, I believe there is ample proof Israel fired on purpose.

=======

“Israel called the attack a “tragic accident,” claiming the ship was mistaken for an ancient Egyptian horse carrier less than half her size. Survivors and many top U.S. officials dismiss the Israeli story as contrived, unbelievable and untrue.

Survivors cite numerous falsehoods in the Israeli account. For instance, Israel claims the attacking jets circled the ship three times looking for a flag and that no flag was flown. They say a cease-fire order was given even before the ship was hit by a torpedo and that no further shots were fired. They call it a very brief case of “friendly fire” that ended when they saw our flag. They say they offered help immediately after the torpedo explosion.

Not true! A large American flag was clearly displayed in a good breeze and the attacking pilots did not circle looking for it. The torpedomen continued firing for another 40 minutes after the torpedo explosion, even firing upon life rafts in the water. Their offer of help did not come until two hours after the torpedo explosion. Many other conflicts exist between the Israeli and American versions.

You can read the rest here; http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0697/9706019.htm

Regarding your point the article also goes on to say — “In fact, the Israeli assault on the Liberty remains the only major maritime event in American history that has not been investigated by the Congress. ”

In that very real sense, there is indeed a cover up by way of Avoidance.

======

There is also a website dedicated to the USS Liberty, with tons of information, for your consideration.

http://www.gtr5.com/

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 12:56 pm
Expat says:

Which question? Who benefited? or How did three thousand demo experts infiltrate the WTC?
Or How come no one has come forward to blab to Hello magazine for a million bucks?

Who benefited? Well, it certainly wasn’t Afghanistan, the Palestinians, Iraq, or Iran. It wasn’t Joe Six-Pack or our civil rights. It was the massive DHS infrastructure, the military, the CIA, the NSA, and the neo-cons. Of course, that is just as easily a side-effect of any terrorist attacker, whoever the perpetrator.

Why would it take three thousand demo experts to wire the WTC? A company like Controlled Demolition takes down buildings all the time with few employees. Most their effort goes to fulfilling government safety requirements, so a terrorist act is a piece of cake. They could rig the towers quite easily over the course of a few months without anyone knowing a thing.

I don’t recall Richard Nixon ever admitting to Watergate. What about the multiple gunmen in the Kennedy assassination? Nope, no stories there. Has Bush or Powell ever come out and admitted they lied about WMD? Gulf of Tonkin? Not a lot of clarity there? US Army massacres of Korean troops and civilians during the Korean conflict? Nope, no Vanity Fair serials. Oh, I know. The US Torture Gulag (renditions, torture, execution, rape, kidnapping, imprisonment). Gee, there were lots of admissions…oh, no, I guess not. Instead they strung up two dipshits stupid enough to pose in pictures and then post them on the web. According to your theory, all these stories should be open books with full disclosure.

However you choose to label me (I suppose being called a Truther is better than being called many other things), bear in mind that I am not claiming that none of this happened. Equating my doubts about official versions and questions about how the incidient was handled with the rantings of the tin-foil hat brigade who claims the planes were holograms is either immature or insane.

In any case, my problem is not whether or not the attacks happened (they did). Or whether or not a team of Saudi terrorists carried them out (they did). Whether or not the fourth plane was shot down (wasn’t). Or whether or not a real plane hit the Pentagon (did).

My problem is whether or not elements of the government were complicit before and/or after the fact. How this attack was used to justify the transformation of our country into a proto-fascist regime whose leaders have decided to ignore the Bill of Rights. I see the Wall Street takeover of the economy as a natural continuation of this philosophy whether or not it is the result of the machinations of a Juncto or Cabal.

Personally, whether or not this conspiracy involved members of the US government, I don’t have any problem believing that many elements in the government would gladly carry out such an attack on US citizens to further what they believe is the Truth. How many times have we heard during Truth and Reconciliation hearing or investigations, “Well, at the time we believed we needed to act like that in order to prevent….”

And finally, as we all patiently wait for this thread to die a natural death (you need to come up with another controversial article tout de suite), I commend you for your efforts in writing more civilized posts (though there is still a bit of work to do).

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 1:10 pm
matt says:

I was reading the link that Jim posted about the Pentagon crash, and some other info, and I came to this conclusion: If the object in the video of the Pentagon crash was big enough to be a commercial jet and that remains found at the crash site were verified as those of passengers and crew of that jet, then case closed in my opinion.
The conspiracy we need to focus on again at this point is concerning the government’s decision to destroy the middle-class of this country and reward criminal banksters with jet planes full of our cash.

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 1:36 pm
Administrator says:

Expat

Do I believe the government has covered up things after 9/11? YES. They covered them up because the information makes them look like fools. They are blundering dunderheads who couldn’t put the pieces together because government is a clusterfuck. If the public knew how incompetent the government really is, the revolution would start.

Do I believe that the neo-cons took advantage of this attack to try and transform the world in the image they desire? YES. The Patriot Act, War on Terrorism, Invasion of Iraq are all near and dear to the neo-con hearts. They have destroyed the country in their world domination visions.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 2:24 pm
Robmu1 says:

Agandau – re: “I do however find it amusing that the same people who doubt the ability of the criminal elements that have taken over the greatest country and economy in the world to pull off 9/11 have no problem with the same complexities being executed on a laptop in a cave in Afghanistan.”

That’s because it’s not too complex to find some flights, train some lunatics to fly planes, hijack the planes and fly them into buildings. It’s only takes insanity and cowardice, and the terrorosts had both. Now that they are getting banged up the ass in hell for eternity, if only we could get a video of that, future pussy terrorists would take heed.

Like or Dislike: 1 1

10th September 2010 at 3:42 pm
Administrator says:

DP can’t post his warped bullshit on our site, so he drifted over to Zero Hedge and did his usual cut and paste job. He shows his true traitor nature by picking out comments from Smokey and myself and posting them as my words. I guess the sheep kicked him out of the barn.

by DavidPierre
on Sun, 09/12/2010 – 17:29
#577149

Put this article into the “M” (MORON) file along with Quinn’s other obscene and racist drivel.

The real 9/11 questions remain UNANSWERED,

WHO REALLY DID IT ?

…”unambiguous that Osama bin Laden masterminded the attacks”… (hahahaha!)

Too Fast

Too Pat

Too Easy

Another Patsy!

………………………………………………………………………….

Here’s a typical, if less obscene, response from Quinn to a polite comment at his lousy blog… wwwthestinkingpile.com

“Administrator says:

red

It is good that you were able to take time out from the truther sheep fuck convention to develop a sitcom. I hear JFK is on today. You can sit in front of your TV and jerk off to it. Do you have any ideas about detective dads that bring up morons? By the number of thumbs up you received, it appears that the 9/11 truther retards are still onboard. I guess no other sites will have you mongoloids.

The truthers swarmed the site with their bullshit immediately. Anyone who has been on my site for the last two years realizes that if you don’t have facts to back up your argument, I will obliterate you.

I had the facts when Jason Rines pulled the plug on my old site.

I really don’t care who I offend.

Anyone who has been offended can hit the fucking road.

Then all of the truthers I’ve offended today can quit my site. They can discuss gravity, explosives, jet fuel, video clips of the Pentagon, and how to properly fuck a sheep*.”

Since you say you were a firefighter, that makes you an intelligent person.

You should really have special insight into the 9/11 towers. You are a bonafide sleuth.

You really have that mystery solved.

Nobody can pull anything over on you. You are too smart to fall for any tricks.

You are a mystery solver. A man with keen analytical skills. —-A fucking inbred, maggot-infested douchebag. You and all of the rest of the duped Truthers eat dog shit.”

…………………………………………………………………………

That’s just one of the really intelligent responses from Quinn.

*Quinn’s favorite retort

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 7:04 pm
Administrator says:

It looks like Zero Hedge has some bright people who actually use their brains:

by mrgneiss
on Sun, 09/12/2010 – 18:31
#577217

Totally agree.

This was an extremely difficult and complex attack, false flags, like the Gulf of Tonkin, tend to be simpler.

If you can get to the point where you think some group or organization wanted to stage a false flag (which is debatable), it is too great a leap of reason to think they would have staged it in such a manner. Even if there was gold to be stolen, documents to be destroyed, people to be killed in the WTC complex (not that I agree necessarily), a false flag attack would have been simpler, would have used truck bombs or maybe a small dirty bomb.

Think of the old adage, the difference between a lie and the truth is that a lie has to make sense. This operation was way too complex, thousands of people would have to have been involved. Jesus, look at the Iran Contra situation, there were less than a dozen people involved and how well did they cover that up?

Anyone espousing that 911 was a false flag completely loses any credibility on any topic.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 7:16 pm
LLPOH says:

Wow. I have been away a couple of days, and come back to find that the site has been swarmed by idiot truthers. I can only second what admin/Smokey have said so far. You truthers really do need to return to your special ed classes now, ’cause it is nap time.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 7:26 pm
Administrator says:

This is why I wrote the article. Not to hear 9/11 Truther drivel.

by Iuvenalis
on Sun, 09/12/2010 – 17:48
#577163

I’ve been lurking here for the past several months and would like to give props to everyone here. We come together as members of a virtual Fight Club, and what we see is disturbing to us all…despite any disagreements we may have. Regarding the Fourth Turning. I was first exposed to that book in 1998, in Washington DC, shortly after graduating college with a History degree. As history has long been something I have a deep interest in, I can honestly say that I cannot find fault with the arguments advanced by Strauss and Howe. To use a scientific metaphor, I would say they have come up with a unified theory for historical events. Like it or not, the Fourth Turning is upon us, and the events of the next few years will make or break both the United States and the rest of the world. To ignore the signs of the turning is to ignore the lessons history has to teach us all.

Those who disagree are welcome to flame away, note, I am no troll and I work as a Flight Instructor, so I am used to turbulence. I look forward to debating this topic.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 7:31 pm
Hucklebuck says:

Good overall analysis, of which I would question only a couple of assumptions. First, a Koran burning in ’02 would have had wider spread support than now, and an attempt to glorify Islam near GZ at that time might have produced the violence against Muslims about which the popular media constantly fantasizes. Tempers were extremely short at that time, and even some members of the left were, temporarily, adrift from their deeply held belief in the innocence of Islam and the perfidy of the US. As the memory of what actually happened receded, it has become more acceptable to revert to that belief system. (Witness the idiotic “truthers” commenting here.)

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 3:53 pm
kochevnik says:

Classic.

Strauss & Howe write one of the most BRILLIANT books on the planet and the monkeys in manpants use this opportunity to sling crap at one another.

4T’s prediction record is unparalleled – it even has a section regarding terrorists hijacking airplanes and using them as weapons. It predicted Bush’s 2nd election win, the extremely high probability of an economic crash (Yes, Vriginia, in spite of what you read in the MSM, this IS a still a depression) and more importantly HOW exactly Americans would react to it (negative household formation for example).

They got it ALL RIGHT and NO ONE PAYS ANY ATTENTION AT ALL.

Wanna know what comes next ?

Here’s a hint :
1780 Rev War
1860 Civ War
1940 WW II
2020 ?

The scapegoats are being lined up as we speak – and when Americans get poor enough – they will find some demagogue (IMO the 2016 President) to push the big Nuke button.

911 is/was CULTURALLY significant – but more people die every month in TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS.

Trees meet Forest.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 5:05 pm
Thinker says:

To those of us who are 4T followers, 9/11 was significant but not THE catalyst for the Crisis. The reaction to it was very 3T; people flew their flags for a few months and rallied behind the president, but the rancor continued to build.

No, most of us even look beyond the catastrophe that Katrina was to the public’s trust in government and now believe the 2008 housing bubble burst/stock market crash was the catalyst. That means we’re just a couple of years into this 20-year Crisis. Keep in mind, they thought things were going to get better after the 1929 stock crash, too. There’s usually a period of great denial but yet a growing recognition that “things aren’t what they used to be.”

We have much further to go, yet we’re at a point where people complain about having to “trade down” to shop at Walmart while still buying strawberries in December. Just wait until the only food they have is what they can grow or barter for.

We need to be vigilant that we don’t fall prey to a charismatic figure who will step in and promise to make everything better, if only we follow him/her. It’s when people are at their lowest that they will believe anything, particularly someone offering “hope” when there is little to be had. Especially when that person asks us to trade our freedoms in exchange for security. We all know how that worked duing the Weimar Republic’s last Crisis.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 6:30 pm
Gemini says:

kochevnik,
Why is WWI skipped over? In almost all of the models of the turnings I’ve seen, it doesn’t get much in the way of props… Did it simply not have the effect of the other wars mentioned, so did not have the mark of a 4th turning? Was it a different kind of effect, marking a different turning?

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 7:25 pm
Administrator says:

Gemini

A Fourth Turning war is decisive and conclusive. WWI was really just a prelude to WWII even though millions died. The Treaty of Versailles set the table for WWII.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 9:37 pm
Gemini says:

Ah, I see. Nothing was really settled, then. Sort of like the cold war…. Mutually assured destruction was good enough to hold the peace. Until that is, it won’t be.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 9:47 pm
Thinker says:

Exactly, Gemini. Now put that in the context of Iraq / Afghanistan.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 10:07 pm
Gemini says:

Fuck me. Toss in peak oil and a populace who can barely make change…
I need to get more seeds.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 10:50 pm
Tampa Gold says:

…..and gold, and silver, and lead……

Poppycock to red and his gubmental J-O-B. I hope you fucking choke on your pension, bitch.

Agandu, or whatever… Tell me…is it 47 STORIES of WTC7 or 47 non-existant coloms on every floor of WTC 1 & 2 ? You’re a fucking dildo. Go back to mommies teet now and wolf down some more pizza rolls into your continuing spiral to obese oblivion.

Hugh (something or other). GETS IT!!!!

Rombu1 – I already told that fuckwad Aguda or whatever, that the reason why that exact scenario happened is because douches like him thought it wasn’t possible in the first place. Fucking idiot.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 12:33 am
LLPOH says:

Tampa – as an actuary, could you please calculate the odds of one of these truthers actually having an IQ over 75? One was posting yesterday that he had an IQ of 168 (for sure he missed the decimal point). One of the most hilarious posts ever.

It is amazing. Truly. I mean, with all the real issues out there, you would think they wouldn’t need to make stuff up as well. These asshats missed their portion of the Einstein gene, for certain.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 12:49 am
ANTIGONISHFREE says:

I think everyone that is caught up in conspiracy theories are missing the point. I have serious doubts that government, or tiny portions of, were involved in 9/11. That said it did happen and what is important is government used this event to shape foreign policy moving forward. I’m from Canada and Tony Blair in a interview on CBC last week was still trying to make WMD/Sadamn link in justifying the ongoing war in Middle east. The conspiracy isn’t in the game changing event it is what movers and shakers do in aftermath. World War 1 started supposedly as result of ArchDuke Ferdinand getting shot. I wonder if man who was the shooter would have done what he did if he knew that he would have the blood of millions on his hands from the two resulting wars.

Of course when you boil it down foreign or domestic government policy is by definition a conspiracy but the best laid plans are the ones in full view for all to see. The reason being is plan is always subject to change and keeping it secret is a waste of time anyways.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 11:05 am
Gaffer says:

Antigonishfree:

You asked: “I wonder if man who was the shooter would have done what he did if he knew that he would have the blood of millions on his hands from the two resulting wars.”

The answer is yes, that’s why he did it in the first place! The assassin, like most other radicals of the time, were swept up in the philosopy of “anarchy” which held that some big, black swan type event could upset the world order and create a workers paradise. Usually this meant assinations and bombings. William McKinley was assinated by an anarchist in hopes of triggering their desired global meltdown. All of us need to be less naive about history and the existence of evil people in the world.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 12:08 pm
Gaffer says:

Admin:

Personally, I think the election of Barack Obama was the triggering event of the 4th Turning. The lies of Obama in portaying himself as the post-racial, post-partisan, post-yadayada you name it and the betrayal of the media in covering up Obama’s radicalism, destroying his opponents (even non-Palin fans have to admit that the all-out character assasination of Palin (and her children for god’s sake!) was unprecedented in american political history). This is absolute betrayal of non-socialist half of the country by the two biggest political entities. This half of the country isn’t going down the road to socialist serfdom without bloodshed.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 12:18 pm
Robmu1 says:

Obama may also be the Antichrist. Well, he was before his approval ratings crashed from the 70′s to the 40′s. The Antichrist is supposed to be a popular figure.

Like or Dislike: 1 1

10th September 2010 at 1:41 pm
reprover says:

JURIS ET DE JURE

Talking about truth raises the bar by way of the work of Richard Gage, member American Institute of Architects, he is the founder of AE911Truth (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html ). A click of the ‘About Us’ tab will qualify his intentions. Like Beck and Schulz…Richard Gage has invoked a curiosity through his work that now enlists the support of 1276 verified architectural and engineering professionals and further supported by some 9278 other supporters including students of these fields too. His supported call for the Congress of these united States of America to pursue a ‘’truly independent investigation’’ into the events surrounding the 9/11 attacks is shared through the many other American Truthers who organizationally as pilots…firefighters and medical… media as well as Intelligence Officers then Lawyers for 911 Truth to name a few; like Beck and Schulz… seek a Restoration of honor…honor to the rule of law and out of respect to surviving families and the memories of the victims.

as with any good chew…comes desert:
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

Juris et de jure,

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 2:08 pm
Robmu1 says:

You are a DOUCHE ET DE BAG.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 2:18 pm
StuckInNJ says:

reprover –

there are 1.6 million engineers in the USA
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm

there are 141,200 architects in the USA
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos038.htm

Congrats on finding .000001% of El Tutti de Frutti es de Fuckwadi’s like yourself who agree with you.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 3:43 pm
ANTIGONISHFREE says:

Admin you are right, deep down I know that guy who carries out the act is hoping that anarchy will result from what they have done. The person usually dies anyways so attitude is might as well take a bunch of innocents with me. The book you talk about sounds linteresting read. I’ll have to get a copy and read it.

Anyway like I said before all the truthers should be worried about how this event affected government policy rather than looking for a bogeyman in the basement at CIA. In short get out and vote someone into office that can change things.

All things said interesting read.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 3:47 pm
robertsgt40 says:

911 was an inside job. Period. For you to suggest otherwise shows your inability to examine the evidence. You want to know who’s behind it? Our favorite ally in the ME who we are fighting wars for. Please tell me you are at least suspecting this. Are you aware of Israel’s deeds over the decades? Lavon Affair, USS Liberty(attempted sinking) All the wars in the ME, started by Israel. As for “peak oil”, you’ree full of crap. There’s more oil on the North Slope of Alaska that we can use in 200yrs, Unfortunately for us, BP owns most of it and it is being shipped to ASIA! You can discuss no solutions to the U.S. situation w/o discussing the influence of secular Zionism. (That would include their control/ownership of the west’s central banking system via the House of Rothschild for the last 300yrs)

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 4:05 pm
StuckInNJ says:

Robmu1, your post caused me to think and research the antichrist. Hereforthwith, for your reading pleasure, are some of my findings. For the following five reasons, I have concluded that Obama is not the antichrist;

The antichrist will be;

1) an Intellectual genius—Ezekiel 28:3; Daniel 8:23
FAIL!

2) an oratorical genius without a telepromter (yes, they had them back them) —Daniel 7:20
FAIL!

3) A political genius—Daniel 11:21;
FAIL!!

4) Military genius — Daniel 8:24, Revelation 6:2; 13:4
FAIL!!

5) An economic genius – Daniel 8:25; 11:38,43; Revelation 13:17
DOUBLE FAIL!!

On the other hand, according to Rev 20:10, the antichrist will be cast into the lake of fire. This is surely Obama’s future resting place.

Also Matt: 4:6 says the antichrist is the Son of Satan. That sure sounds like Obama. So he still has a chance to fulfill his own destiny. After all, he is who he has been waiting for.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 4:06 pm
robertsgt40 says:

Nice going admin–shut off the like/dislike….can’t stand the heat?

Like or Dislike: 2 0

10th September 2010 at 4:10 pm
Administrator says:

robertsgt40

You must have an IQ on par with Carl’s to have such brilliant insights. Did you also go to Bumfuck University in downtown Conspiracyville?

Time for your lithium.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 4:19 pm
Administrator says:

robertsgt40

Can’t figure out the which thumb to stick up your ass?

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 4:19 pm
Administrator says:

Stuck

I thought he was the son of a Kenyan.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 4:22 pm
Smokey says:

robertsgt40—–If you weren’t such a moosecock sucking piece of festering shit, you would know that the like/dislike have never worked properly since Day One here, including today. But sick dimwitted retarded douchebag mongoloids like you LOVE to jump to conclusions when there is NO fucking supporting evidence whatsoever. You have 9/11 down EXACTLY like you have peak oil down. You may well be the stupidest mother-fucker ever to post here, and that is fucking saying something, because we have had some deranged, psychotic fools babbling on this site. Eat shit, asshole.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 4:22 pm
Smokey says:

robertsgt

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 4:43 pm
Smokey says:

robertsgt40 ‘s nickname is Switch. He keeps one thumb in his mouth and the other thumb in his ass, and waits for someone to holler “Switch! “.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 4:44 pm
LLPOH says:

Smokey/Admin – Still they come. There seems no end to these zombies. We chased Carl and another takes his place. I skewered acjitsu and 10 more show up. They are like a fucking Hydra.

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 5:55 pm
Smokey says:

LLPOH—-The way you smacked acjitsu, I’m not sure he ever comes back.

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 6:06 pm
Gemini says:

StuckNinja, let me borrow that dagger for a minute, since you don’t quite seem to know what to do with it. Obama may not be the Antichrist, but he walks among us.

Intellectual genius… Obviously.
Oratorical genius… Clearly.
Political genius… Yep.
Economic genius… Yes again.
Military genius…?

Well I don’t know how good the Administrator is in a fist fight. Probably not very good if you scared him into getting a shotgun….

Like or Dislike: 0 0

10th September 2010 at 6:37 pm
asp says:

Uk, Quinn isnt so naive to believe the towers were felled by planes, I| can only assume he is misrepresenting himself to solicit patronage. Where is the option to unsubscribe? Quinn please stop sending me updates and remove me from your list, I don’t tolerate abuse in the form of insincerity.

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 2:50 pm
Administrator says:

Go fuck yourself asp. You will never be removed from my list. You will receive every update 3 times. Someone as stupid as yourself probably needs to be told something 3 times before it has a chance to sink in.

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 4:00 pm
Kill Bill says:

TFTES

Like or Dislike: 0 1

10th September 2010 at 8:42 pm
Kill Bill says:

Stucky Wrote: The antichrist will be;

Fixed Your Typo

1) A bad fiction writer — Ayn Rand

2) an Intellectual genius—Ezekiel 28:3; Daniel 8:23
FAIL!

Like or Dislike: 1 0

10th September 2010 at 8:44 pm
Wasp says:

It is quite obvious that Truther’s will gather together like a religion, and be faithful to their collective conspiracy beliefs, come hell or high water. Actual events of the 911 Tower collapses, can, and was evaluated by investigative engineering studies. It is my considered observation that none of the posts submitted by the Truther’s was submitted by a structural engineer.

1. As the plane’s inertia struck the building, and some, but not all of the exterior columns on the impact side, were severed. This allowed the upper stories to remain supported, and not appreciably list to the point of impact, but rather shook the upper 1/3 of the structure noticeably, albeit momentarily, with a slight sway opposite the point of impact, returning to steady state axially. The structural damage occurred immediately, followed by the wings (loaded with aviation fuel), igniting and spilling over the entire floor, some of which went out the opposite side through induced pressure, as well as parts of the fuselage and furniture that impacted the steel structure and exterior fenestration. Most of the fuel, as well as some baggage and contents on the floor continued to burn for awhile.

2. As the fuel and contents, induced, or present, continued to burn and some of the exterior steel fireproofing missing, due to the plane’s impaction, the steel started to loose some of its designed tensile strength, as well as its connections (bolts, rivets). The floor load for each floor was 80 to 100 lbs/sf, or heavier based on occupancy. The weight of 5-6 floors, above the impact floor, was still able to be supported by the diminished column count, temporarily, until a critical column buckled, then almost immediately, the others columns followed suit, because now they were massively overloaded by their diminished design capacity – they then collapsed.

3. Now, that the weight of the upper 5-6 floors become active and in motion, they start to travel, almost axially downward at first, then they impacted the damaged floor with sufficient moment and weight that it collapses all of the lower floors and their supportive superstructures successively, in order, with increasing speed, axially downward. The properties of moment of inertia sealed the structures fate.

By the way, WTC was scheduled for demolition months before. All of the concrete columns were prepped for explosives. Portions of the concrete coverings were removed to steel and charges were set. The building was set to be demolished. Unfortunately, 911 occurred and plans were shelved temporarily. It was extremely unfortunate and with poor timing, that someone proceeded with the demolition, just a short time after the Towers fell. All I can say is: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. ‘ Nuff said!

Like or Dislike: 0 2

10th September 2010 at 1:48 pm
Kepi says:

I just wanted to say that one of the major points I think I disagreed with Strauss and Howe was the third turning starting in 84. I think the Third Turning started as early as 79, but was clearly evident at 81, with the death of John Lennon (one of the 2nd Turning’s most obvious figureheads) and the election of Reagan (which fundamentally altered politics both in function and image, and showed a fully realized boomer voting demographic). I think the reason for the shortened consciousness revolution is because of the results of an extended coming of age for such a large block of people because of the education programs started by the space race (college is an extention of youth in post modern America), as well as the fact that demographically Gen X is just so much smaller than both Boomers and Millennials, they just didn’t have the social foot print to sustain their coming of age any longer.

So that would put 9/11, if not the event itself, the fallout of definitely as 4th Turning material. As a Gen X/Millennial cusper, in highschool wecould always see the changes that were coming shortly after we left as being very different from what we were put through. However, we did all get caught by Columbine, whose resulting lockout planning and reallocation of resources to security as a taste of things to come. By the time I graduated college, though, it was pretty much cooked. I would have been prettty obviously Gen X but it was the immediate hardship following 9-11 that really firmed up what would have been a supressed and mild millennial lean to a pretty full blown 50/50 to 40/60 expression.

You’re right on one thing, nobody realized that we were in the crisis there in 2004. Everything was tight, not as bad as now, for sure, but you were definitely coming in to underemployment and it was a real fight to get out. I was working in the real estate industry (settlement side, not sales or banking!) and I called Countrywide’s demise months before anyone was willing to admit anything could possibly be wrong with our economy. I was seeing it because economically I was just in a really fragile position, but nobody else got it. Next I was working for 911, and saw the mounting foreclosure problem long before anyone was talking about it (as well as the sheer amount of repossessed cars, which nobody ever covered much). When the economic news hit in 2007, I was sitting there just wondering how everyone missed it.

I think the best way to consider the Boomer leadership in terms of the Strauss-Howe formula is that they’re failed Prophets. They’re still acting like prophets, sure. They just kinda suck at it. Occassionally you’ll get a few that are good and get it, but on the whole they’re just flat out wrong. Again, I think this is because of proportional size of the generation. There’s just this ungodly amount of boomers around. It creates a case of too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, to be politically incorrect about it. It means that they’re in power without strong opposition, and nobody can tell them they’re wrong.

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10th September 2010 at 5:28 am

The Burning Platform

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