I met one of my college buddies for dinner tonight. Paul was in my wedding 23 years ago. We meet a few times per year and catch up. We used to play basketball for hours on end back in our college days. After college we would hit the local bars in his red RX7. We’ve taken different paths, but have reached the same destination – concluding that we’re doomed. We hadn’t met for over a year awhile ago. He was always more outgoing and laid back about life. When we got together two years ago I found out he had bought a doomstead farm in Lancaster County among the Amish. He had also bought a gun. Tonight he told me about his new website:
He has created a website to help people choose a handgun. I think it is a great idea. I know many people on this site are experts when it comes to guns, but us accountants are mostly clueless. With the country spiraling downwards and Obama trying to ban guns, interest among amateurs and first timers is rising. I plan on buying a handgun or two in the near future. I think his site will be a valuable resource for someone looking to buy gun.
He has different categories for:
Beginners
Women
Self Defense
Home Defense
Concealed Carry
Pistols
Revolvers
Check out the site and let me know what you think. If you have suggestions to improve the site, let him know. I know he would like people to post pictures and reviews of their favorite handguns. I’m going to stay on Paul’s good side. I see myself tilling the soil on his farm in the not too distant future after the shit hits the fan.
MP5. Fits ANY category of defense. Slight problem. It’s an automatic weapon.
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The simple answer as to what the Best Handgun is is one that fits your hand properly, one that you can control when you fire it and most importantly — one that you can hit what you’re aiming at with.
Finding that gun may be the hardest part. Check with all of your friends and try out their guns whenever possible. Go to a gun shop or shops and ask to see a selection of guns and find the ones that feel the best to you and then try to find one that you can try out or borrow and test fire. The only opinion that matters in the end as far as brand, caliber, revolver or semi-auto pistol is yours.
Looked at the website and it is a good start, but as yet really needs to e more comprehensive. almost all the guns are rated the same, plus or minus a smidge.
I looked at all the guns rated, and there is one glaring reality – many great guns are left out at this point.
For instance, any serious discussion of handguns simply must include a discussion of the 1911. Seriously, no matter what you think of the .45 vs the 9mm, the 1911 HAS to be in the conversation, even if it is just to bag it. And the 1911 isn’t even mentioned anywhere that I could find.
The Sigs get mentioned, which is good. But they include Walther .22s for women – are you shitting me? Get them a real gun – a .380 Sig, or better yet one of the old .380 Brownings.
A S+W revolver is the top rated handgun. WTF?
I do not know how long the site has been up and running, and may just need time to mature.
I suggest that the first thing that needs to happen is that the 1911 needs to be included immediately.
It’s better to hit with a .22 than miss with a .45. Don’t pay attention to anyone telling you what the “best” caliber is. No such thing. Read all the reviews and articles you can find, but make your own decision.
That said, I have a 9mm, a .380, and a .22. Each one has its particular strengths and weaknesses. I’ve had .40’s and .45’s in the past (and probably will get another .45). I’m more accurate and most comfortable with the 9mm in the full-size duty pistol category, with the .380 nicely covering the small/concealed category, and the .22 to use for practice and general groundskeeping duties. I’ve fired maybe 20 different pistols and owned about half that number over the years.
At this point in time and at these prices, trying-by-buying is probably not an ideal way to choose, so get something that you really want to try out and go to the range with it. Meet people. Look at what they’re shooting. If you’re straight up with people (at least around here, anyway), most of them won’t mind letting you try out their pistols for a few shots if they know you’re in that phase of ownership. Gun people you meet at a public range are NOT the paranoid freaks we’re made out to be by those cockgobblers on teevee. The nutbags don’t practice in public.
llpoh – Yep. The 1911 has to be evaluated, if for no other reason than half the damn autos running around out there are based on it in one way or another. My next .45 will be a 1911 derivative, probably either a Para or Remington.
This fucker… classy but simple and quite competitive on price…
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E – you are right, but a .22? Best? Umm… no. It is a practice caliber. Better to hit with a .45 than a .22. Or a 9mm. Or a 38. Or a .380. etc. But if you cannot do that, a .22 is better than nada.
Re everything else, I wholeheartedly agree. Especially re the .380 re small/concealed carry option, esp. for women. It isn’t a big game gun, but it carries enough pop, and most anyone can handle one.
I love 1911s – not necessarily the best, and I cannot hit the side of a barn anymore, but damn they are fun to go out and shoot. To be honest, this would be the most effective if I want to hit anything:
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E – Nice 1911. Surprisingly easy to conceal, too. We could scare a bunch of critters with a pair of those.
Scrimshawed ivory grips and all!! One of my top selling points with the 1911 is the thin profile. For such a hand cannon, they’re just too easy to wear IWB.
As for the .22, most shitbags that break in a house aren’t planning on being shot at with anything or else they’d have gone elsewhere. Any gunshot in an enclosed space is loud and most FSA aren’t capable of discerning the differences based on report alone. Loud bang, some part of body suddenly on fire and throbbing, they won’t give a fuck what it was. That’s why I say it’s better to be able to hit with a .22 than miss with a .45. ‘Tis semantics, though. Bottom line: Shoot that fucker dead. Reload, find his friends. Rinse, repeat.
It’s not the gun, it’s the person behind it that matters. In terms of particular handguns it’s up to the user. It has to be a weapon that they are familiar, comfortable and confident with. I personally would avoid the larger calibers .44 magnum, .50, etc. Since I’m not into shooting pissed off Black Bears or Grizzlies. Can’t stand the recoil of the buggers.
Of the newer pistols out there the FN 5.7 intrigues me. I’d love to test fire one of them.
For shooting lawyers. First beat the shit out of him/her, form a fist around a roll of quarters and punch the fucker real hard 3-4 times in the head. Then use a .22 pistol, ram it up the lawyers ass and fire. The butt cheeks will form a muffler for the noise from the round. Then take whatever cash he has in the wallet as payment for your services.
If you’re a sadist, you can simply blind him with a $300 laser you can buy off ebay.
Let it not be said that a flamethrower is a concealable weapon.
Colostomy bags can serve as fuel reservoirs.
One of hose four pronged, rubber tipped canes can be an excellent nozzle.
And that hunched over posture can hide the act of trying to get the Bic to flick.
Timing can be a problem however.
C’mon ivan – piezo-electric ignition. You gotta make it so people can just fatfinger a button or we’ll never get to see all those people set on fire. Sheeeezzz… get it together over there!
e – In my house, trouble with shooting intruders is that I would worry about the other members of the household. If I was alone, I would prefer a shotgun. Nobody fucks with a shotgun. Or a .45 for that matter.
Your .22 makes sense given other family is around and penetration of walls will be negligible. If there was a hostage situation I would want a rifle. I guess each situation calls for a best gun, and it is ever changing.
E,
While admittedly ” setting people on fire” at a distance may be the theme here, you have to think about doing it with class and enthusiasm.
Enthusiasm is very important.
CI – do not forget technique. Technique is important, too. Enthusiasm will only get you so far.
Aw come on, enthusiasm is the lifeblood of all accomplishments.
Technique is but a subset.
I like talking about guns, and shooting them even better (just got back from the range, as a matter of fact), but not arguing w/ folks about “best”. There is no “best” handgun, anymore than there is a “best” pair of shoes, and most of the arguments are about fan clubs, not technical merit. In bear country, I always say the best gun is the one you have on you-I’d rather have a 22 in my hand than a 454 Casull in the truck, 20 yards away. But my reluctance to argue won’t stop me from opining:
First point-Shot placement outweighs most everything else. Hits count, misses are worth little to nothing. There may be a “scare ’em off” factor, but if it’s worth shooting at someone, it’s worth hitting them.
If carry is not the issue, get the biggest (heaviest) reliable handgun that fits your hand, in the biggest caliber you can comfortably shoot. Not tolerate for a couple rounds, but shoot comfortably.
Fact: all else equal, heavier guns (long guns or handguns) are steadier and easier to shoot well than lighter ones up until they get so heavy as to be a burden. You don’t find match rifle shooters trying to shave weight off, they are adding lead to make ’em heavier. For action shooting, that may not be true, but for precision shooting it is. For a night-stand pistol, petite ain’t what you want.
Fact: all else being equal (i.e., shot placement), bigger, more powerful cartridges are more effective than little ones. Ask the FBI agents in the Florida massacre how that 9mm worked out for them (that debacle was the catalyst for the FBi adopting the 10mm, which is substantially more powerful than the 9. Ultimately is was deemed more than agents could reasonably handle, resulting in the anemic “FBI 10mm lite” loading, which lead to the now ubiquitous 40 S&W (that is, 40 “short & weak” amongst 10mm purists). With all due respect to llpoh, his endorsement of the 380 is misguided, IMO. 380 is quite anemic by defense weapon standards. That said, modern projectile development has made 380, 9mm 38 Special, etc. far more effective than traditional, if the premium ammunition is used. Again, better to have a 380 than an empty hand, but better still to have something with more stopping power.
If you are carrying, that is where the compromise needs to come in. But the same rules apply-get the biggest, easiest to shoot (reliable) gun that you can effectively carry, in the biggest caliber you can shoot well. This may require different guns for different situations. There is a lot to be said for the old saying “beware the man with only one gun”-the implication being he knows how to use it well. But there is also a place for different guns for different purposes and conditions. I recommend owning several. But become (safe and) proficient with all of the ones you intend to count on. This is a challenge in today’s ammo market. I also recommend reloading, although components are tough to find as well.
AKA – .380 mentioned with respect to womenfolk, esp. those new to guns. The 380 is a very good entry point for them. But pls recall my comments re the 1911. And my comments re 45 better than 9mm better than 380 etc re hitting power. Much prefer bigger cal all else equal. We are on the same page. If you were anyone else I would suggest reading for comprehension, but I luvs ya, so I would never do that. 🙂
cynic,
I fired my friends 2 weeks ago and the 5.7 pistol is awesome and incredibly accurate at long range (for a pistol). but it should be bc it is basically firing a rifle round (think it is something like a 50 gr bullet).
if you can get access to that caliber and could only own 1 pistol and 1 rifle, you could do a lot worse than the five-seven and ps90 carbine becasue they fire the same round. the negatives being the ammo isn’t as common and i have been told by a friend that reloading the cartridge yourself isnt’ for novices (he reloads it and other cartridges).
there is no perfect handgun but i have my preferences
open carry-beretta 92 or taurs 357 rev
CC (pocket carry)- sig sauer p238 or beretta nano
admin,
i will be sure to check out the site when i am on a non-work internet connection. from your description of your friend paul it sounds like i would definitely get along with him.
llpoh,
bigger typically is better but the 22lr is an outstanding round. anyone who wants to be “prepared” owns a ruger 10-22. doesn’thave stopping power and can’t be reloaded but subsonic rounds can be easily procured and “cans” for that round are the most affordable. with the tax stamp one could get a walther p22 setup to fire suppressed rounds for less than $600 including the tax stamp (last time I looked into it). hitting an attacker with a 22 is better than missing with a 45.
correct me if i am wrong but i am pretty sure those scumbag yutes used that murdered that aussie kid used a .22 and he was shot once in the back.
the best handgun is the one that fits in your hand, has readily available ammo, fires when needed and the one you can hit the target with.
“The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I’m just not close enough to get the job done.”
G. Carlin, Oracle of Brooklyn
Harry – I have always had 22s. Everyone needs one or four. That said, I would rather pop ’em with a 45. That poor kid was hit in the aorta. Talk about bad luck. Anywhere else in the torso and he would probably make it.
But in the end, in a lot of cases, the best handgun is a shotgun. Again, bigger is better, if possible.
When fucking around with a handgun is no longer fun…
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Many women can’t retract the slide on the tiny pistols (including 380’s). Few 380s are 99.999% reliable, especially the really tiny ones.
The Miami Shootout revealed that poorly-penetrating rounds (like the 9mm Silvertip used) are inadequate. “Modern” 9mm JHPs like Winchester’s Ranger T penetrate and expand about the same as 45 ACP JHPs so there’s not much reason to go with bigger unless you’re going to shoot black bears or cars. Look up “Doc Roberts” on line for a nice discussion on pistol rounds. I think it’s on http://www.ar15.com but I might be wrong.
1911’s are wonderful (try one in 9mm for real fun) but for a gun that goes bang every single time you press the trigger, my experience suggests a Glock. Glock 19’s and 26’s are easy-peazy to run, and you can replace the trigger and/or connector if you want a lighter trigger let-off.
The website does not at this time have a listing for a Glock 9mm. Given it’s likely the most popular of all current models, this seems odd.
Also, arguably the best on-line resource for reviewing guns is the Hitchcock45 on youtube.
Llpoh,
If the best handgun is a shotgun, the best shotgun is a semi-auto rifle in 6.8mm SPC.
http://www.ar15performance.com/
llpoh,
a good pump 12GA is essential but after firing some 300 AAC rifles recently i think my dream handgun would actually be an SBR with an 8″ barrel pushing some 190-210 grain rounds. too bad the All Things Fun a-holes make it difficult to procure one.
a stipulation for me after all the craziness of the last year is reloading ability and reloading shells is a pain IMO but I could do 300 all day long if necessary.
ecliptix,
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nice mini but i prefer the ma deuce…
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DC – you get my drift. At 20 feet I will keep the shotgun, tho!
Specifically re the .380s I was thinking of the Browning, which I never had trouble with. Still available used.
the ranger rounds are the defense rounds i use in my 92 for the very reason dc states.
it’s actually hickok45 (not trying to be a dick just want people doing the search to spell it right so they get to the vids), and dc is absolutely correct, his reviews are spot on and extremely informative.
hickok45 on the 300 blackout, its great bc you can use standard 556 BCG and mags. a full upper can be built (without optics) for less than $500. i know this is about handgun site but it is a great round, versatile loads while also being easy to reload.
@Admin: Your friend has it right with his doomstead – learning how to live with 1870s tech and people that can cope with that level is a smart move.
As to guns, any weapon you do not know how to use belongs to the enemy. So whatever your weapon of choice, you have to practice, practice, practice.
There is no “best” gun, there is only the gun that fits your hand, you can shoot straight with, you can clean and you can afford to have 10,000 rounds per caliber for.
Probably, if you have to use a handgun, your enemy is likely too close, heh. I prefer a stand off of 200-300 yards with a long rifle myself.
It may come to the time where you just shoot first and ask questions later, don’t even bother looking in your scope, just don’t let anybody outside of your tribe get too close.
Good catch, HarryP. I thought what I typed didn’t look right….
As noted by others, this “question” is highly subjective and personal– no “one” solution is best for everyone.
After purchasing many “toys” over the years I discovered (the expensive way) that I am very sensitive to both blast (the concussion that comes off the end of the barrel when the 20,000 to 50,000 psi pressure behind a bullet in the barrel comes out when the bullet exits the barrel) and recoil.
In short, I don’t like getting beat-up by what I’m firing. This make the magnum revolvers truly unpleasant to me, and even 308 rifles left bruises. This makes me doubly uninterested in 12 gauge shotguns.
My personal solutions: 9mm handguns and mid-bore rifles (i.e., the 6.8, since the 5.56 really comes into its own only with the most modern 75gr and 77gr OTM bullets, which raise the cost per shot to a dollar…which is the same for most other standard rifle cartridges).
I can practice as much as my wallet can afford and go home without bruises or lingering pain. An outing at the range is a hoot instead of something that’s “gonna’ hurt.” Maybe I flinch a little less because of this.
If I had to do it over again, I surely would have bought a few SKS rifles when my dealer buddy could get them for $67 each at the 3/order price. The 7.62×39 round is very respectable, while the current military 5.56 load (62gr bullet) is a hit-or-miss proposition.
http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?7274-Dr-Roberts-NDIA-May-2008-Report-quot-Time-For-a-Change-quot
Lancaster county, amongst the Amish. Good move. I lived in solanco with them as neighbors for 10 years.
They’re great. They generally mind their own business and don’t care what you do.
The H&k MP5 isn’t a problem in most states, like PA, It has to have been produced before 1986.
The public can legally own automatic weapons or suppressed weapons.
I know. I own 4 automatic and 1 suppressed.
6 month wait of BATFE review/approval
$200 BATF tax stamp per weapon
signed papers by local law enforcement ( our PA county sheriff is a good guy)
fingerprinted
Most importantly, be ready to cough up about a salty sum of $18,000 for the MP5
Here’s a nifty pdf from Winchester’s (gag) LE site:
http://winchesterle.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/pdf/Handgun%20Bullet%20Barrier%20Testing%20Protocol.pdf
While I heap derision on Winchester for trying to sell Ranger T ammo only to the Goon Squad, there are some places that will sell this ammo to Real People (who don’t swagger around behind badges).
Apparently Federal’s HST is similar (in effect and in “LE only” sales), Speer’s Gold Dot ammo is also deemed similar in effect and has no attempted restrictions on who can purchase it.
Of course, right now (astonishingly) the run on ammo continues and finding this stuff anywhere in stock for sale is a phenomenal challenge.
People must be lining their basement walls with whatever they can procure.
BTW, reloading is not a panacea to the ammo shortage.
Gunshop shelves are bare of powders and primers, and bullets are almost as difficult to find. The problem is that powders and primers are not interchangeable. You can spend months working up a load (esp. for rifle) and then be unable to find more propellant of the same kind. Stocking up in advance doesn’t work, because (esp. with rifles) some kinds just don’t work well with ones particular gun. You might be stuck with sub-optimal powder (or even primers…i.e., you should only use “military-hard-cup” primers like CCI #41’s for AR15’s and other battle-type rifles with free-floating firing pins, but other firearms may not be able to use them).
Also, after 30 years of reloading, I’d be reluctant to trust “homemade” rounds to life-or-death circumstances unless I was well into the Zombie Apocalypse. Factory ammo remains your friend.
Gubmint, I’m envious. I live where Regular Citizens are presumed nascent criminals so all NFA items are prohibited.
Oh, how I lust after a 9mm suppressor.
Asshole legislators. If only Shitcago would break off, float out into Lake Michigan and then sink to rejoin hell from which it spawned.
llpoh-380 in a full-sized piece is a great light-kicking intro cartridge for smaller folks & new shooters. But most of the 380s on the market are compacts (or micro-compacts) for CC use, kick hard due to very light weight, have shitty to mediocre sights and are damn difficult to shoot well. I guess I don’t want to confuse any new shooters that 380 is inherently good or bad, it is the combination of cartridge, gun weight and dimensions, +/- reliability, that make one acceptable or not.
Not that I don’t have a 380, but it has limited use for me. I call mine the gun I carry when I don’t want to carry a real gun. And yes, when conditions allow carrying something bigger, it is typically a 45 in people country-much more fun to shoot, much, much more accurate, and much more convincing ballistics than my 380. In bear country, I typically carry a large bore magnum revolver-does double duty as a close-range, target of opportunity moose gun during the season (starts this weekend!).
D.C.
I hear ya.
It’s why I’ll continue to live in PA
BTW if anyone is looking for large quantities of various caliber ammo, some it even available on links, I found these folks pretty good to deal with. Don’t let the name fool you.
“United Nations Ammo Company”
I completely agree with ya harry, .50 is way more fun than 7.62, particularly the anti-personnel effects.
Thanks guys, you saved me some time. I absolutely refuse to waste my time on something called “Besthandgun” that doesn’t even address John Browning’s immortal design. The 1911 doesn’t have to be everyone’s first choice, but not mentioning it displays ignorance of the author’s own subject.
Ragman – you is as smart as me! The 1911 has to be there, or the site really is missing the boat.
Llpoh & ragman
He just started the site. He was looking for you crotchety old geezers to give him some guidance on making the site better. You’ve done it in your own shit throwing monkey way.
Admin: don’t forget that I’m a BOOMER shit-throwing monkey. Seriously, your amigo should locate someone wif a 1911 and go out and shoot the bitch. If he lived in SOFL he could shoot mine, as long as he brings his own ammo. 3 Colts in 45 and a Strayer Voigt Infinity 40 to choose from. Maybe he didn’t know about the 1911. You’re quite right, it’s the old geezers that sing the praises of Ole Slabsides! I’ll rephrase my shit-throwing rant. Dude, check out a 1911 and I guarantee it’ll show up at the top of your list.
ragman
He bought his first gun in 2010. We were just suburban boys who never thought about owning guns. He realized that newbies with no knowledge about guns would like a website where gun experts like yourself would write reviews about their favorite guns. Therefore, amateurs like us could benefit from the knowledge of guys like you.
a good, tight 1911 in 9mm is pretty easy shooting, moderately effective and (until the latest ammo shortage) pretty cheap to feed. But I prefer mine in something bigger.
Admin – not my fucking fault he is such a newbie. 🙂 He needs to go test a 1911 and put it as his first entry in every category. I do not care if it gets rated a zero – you simply cannot have a credible handgun review site where there is no 1911.
If he is gonna have a blog he needs thick skin. We are just helping him get there!
Admin: I’m sure there are folks on TBP with a whole lot more knowledge than I have. I’m strictly old school. The only plastic gun I have is the Strayer. No Glocks, &tc. Choose the weapon that suits you, but there is one primary rule for a defensive handgun. It has to go ‘BANG” every time you pull the trigger. No exceptions. If it’s not reliable, it’s not worth a shit. You’re betting your life on this piece of equipment and it absolutely HAS to work.
AKA – that is heresy. I think there needs to be a Constitutional amendment forbidding 1911s in anything but 45 cal. Some things should never be fucked with. .
1) The 45 is in my opinion the best choice…folks don’t go very far from a double tap to the chest . I’ve read of to many perps who went a pretty good distance after being shot by a 9mm,32 cal and other small calibers .
2) The 1911 is a work horse. I agree with LLPOH…nothing but a 45 cal for this defender of freedom . I love some of the models from Kimber.
3) The FN 5.7 is a cool gun . I believe a 30 round clip is available for the gun. With m855 ammo you’d have an AWESOME weapon .
4) When purchasing a gun remember the exotic calibers may be had to get ammo for if TSHTF . You’ll always be able to get 45 cal,5.56/223,7.62/.308,38 cal easier than say 32 or 300 blackout/whisper. I bought a boat load of 12 gauge buck shot in 2 3/4,my brother asked why I didn’t get 3.5″ since my shotgun will shoot it. I told him all 12 gauge shotguns can shoot 2 3/4 shells….not all shotguns can shoot 3.5″ shells. So think before you buy .
5) I have a Springfield Armory tactical 45 and a Taurus PT145 in 45 cal for personal carry….I really like both guns . My fiance can shoot both guns so the recoil isn’t too bad for lady shooters The new Colt .380 looks like a pretty good conceal carry for the ladies .
Llpoh,
Browning himself swatted up the 9mm…well…Browning.
Colt has offered 1911’s in 9mm luger, 38 Super, and 22 LR and that was just in the first couple decades.
As you know, they’ve even gone New School and offered in 10mm and 40.
A color for every fan in the rainbow.
And the 1911 in 9mm (with Springfield mags) is utterly reliable, sweet, easy on the pocketbook.
One more comment about the 1911: it just feels right. It points naturally. I like the Commander 4″ barrel, Govt frame. I have rather small hands for an old fat-assed boomer, so the slim profile of the 1911 grip is perfect for me. If you can’t get the job done with 8 230gn “Flying Ashtrays” you should consider something else.
One you can actually hit something with. And can get ammo for. I keep meeting people with pistols who cant hit anything. 45 owners are the worse, maybe the idea is to scare people with they’re pistol.
Admin, you finally found a topic that everyone is fully conversant with – big time. Very interesting comments. Up in the great white north, we only have our 30:06’s. Nothing fancy but will do the trick if you don’t mind a life sentence for protecting yourself.
d.c.-correct. 1911 was gov’t issue in a wide array of calibers, moreso in civilian issue. As a yute, I wanted a 38 Super in the worst way. At the time, that cartridge had some real performance advantages, and it was unusual, with character. But the uniqueness is a major liability from a care & feeding standpoint, and there are other calibers (10mm, in particular-the brain child of the late/great Jeff Cooper & Co.) that are superior in every way except recoil. I see 38 Super is gaining popularity among the IPSC crowd-I think they can (just barely) make major power factor with less recoil than 45.
In any case, as a lady’s gun that is not for CC, I’d recommend a 9mm 1911.