MH-17: MISSILE OR 30 MILLIMETER SHELLS?

This is a picture of the cockpit of MH-17 just below the window on the pilot side. Have you seen this picture in the American mainstream media? We have former Air Force members on this site. Are those bullet holes? Do you understand why the audio transmissions between the pilots and the controller tower have disappeared. Do you understand why the black box recordings are not being released? Do you understand that Obama, the EU and the Ukrainian government are mass murderers?

Hat tip Frenchie

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Peaceout
Peaceout

In the old days cover ups were highly orchestrated with multiple layers of secrecy, mystery and players. When a cover up was suspected the people and the media were up in arms and demanded answers.

Now days cover ups are blatant, obvious and right in your face and nobody seems to care about what is going on, who is behind it and the ramifications will be.

What happened to us?

yahsure
yahsure

The media keeps saying its all Russias fault, Like zombies.
That photo reminds me of a tank i saw hit by 30mm rounds.

ragman
ragman

Admin: with all due respect, the holes in the airframe will result in a decrease in cabin pressure. All military pilots must undergo pressure chamber training. When I did this in the 70s, it consisted of two scenarios: a gradual increase in cabin altitude to 25000 feet and an explosive decompression. The first exercise demonstrated the insidious effects of a gradual decompression. Loss of motor skills and decision making capabilities. Back then we didn’t have the fancy warning systems we have now and the exercise was designed to show pilots what a gradual loss of pressurization was like and what it would do. The second exercise was violent and would literally suck the air out of your lungs. It was accompanied with condensation in the cockpit, a fog if you will. A pilot had only a few seconds to don the O2 mask, failure to do so results in unconsciousness. Sorry for the long rant, but this is what the pilots of MH17 faced. Whether it was a missile or cannon fire, the results were the same. We will probably never know what really happened, just like TWA 800. The DFDR and Voice Recorder hold the key, along with Air Traffic Control tapes, but they are unavailable. Isn’t govt wonderful?

Billy
Billy

They got lit up…

Some of those holes are circular, which meas the rounds struck perpendicular to the surface of the aircraft. And some are teardrop shaped, which is what happens when a round hit a surface at an oblique angle.

Poor bastards never had a chance. 30 mike mike cannon fire will shred the shit out of whatever it hits… I doubt the pilots were even alive long enough to realize the cabin lost pressure… they were probably a pink goo splattered about what was left of the cockpit…

Westcoaster
Westcoaster

From what I’ve seen & real, the missile the Ukies fired took out an engine & the pilot quickly changed course for Kiev airport which was the closest for an emergency landing. The Ukies couldn’t have survivors talking about missiles, so they finished the plane off with cannon fire.
The Ukies & CIA are obviously guilty because they’re hiding all the evidence that truly shows what happened.

Frenchie
Frenchie

I had this picture for weeks and kept it until it was time to display it

Ragman, several dozen if not hundred of high explosive 30mm rounds will blow the cockpit like a can opener. there is an extreme overpressure that desintegrate the airframe. the explosive de-pressurization follows in a split second and kills the others.

please note two facts:
MH-17 was asked by the ground control in Kiev to fly as low as 20.000ft as they were sent on another flight path. this reduced their speed.
20.000ft is precisely the level an SU-25 can reach with its gun fed despite this plane is made for ground attack. it carries a 30mm gun with 250 rounds that can be chosen in a wide range of ammos. given the nature of the Su-25, the pilot had to stick to its target.
This is exactly what has been claimed on the Russian side from the begining: they spotted a SU-25 on the Ukrainian side that followed MH-17 during no less than 100 miles, at a distance sometimes inferior at 1000 yards. until the bastard shot the civilians at point blank.

something else: a spanish translator has witnessed in Kiev’s control tower that several NATO officers were here when it happened. he never saw those guys until few hours before the flight was shot down.

I’ve lost all respect I had for Ukraine. Russians should nuke those fuckers

and admin, thanks. truth will set people free, when fear enslaves them.

Rise Up
Rise Up

Are you telling us there was a United States government conspiracy to hide the truth? And Google helped them by removing images from their database? That simply cannot be true. They would never do that!

Rise Up
Rise Up

@ragman – ” We will probably never know what really happened, just like TWA 800.”

No so, it’s well established that an errant military missile brought down TWA 800.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MHr4LPL6eE

SSS

“Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon.”
—-Admin

Wrong. The opposite happens. Cabin pressure is set at 5,000 feet MSL during daytime, 8,000 feet MSL at night. A rapid decompression event decreases cabin pressure, not increase it. The plane will neither “burst like a balloon” nor implode.

That said, it appears the plane was hit by a large caliber weapon. Only the Ukrainian Air Force and Russian Air Force had that capability to do that. No one has ever implied that the Russians were involved. Uh, there’s a default conclusion there. You decide.

“The Ukies & CIA are obviously guilty because they’re hiding all the evidence that truly shows what happened.”
—-Westcoaster

Stop being an ignorant dumbshit, asshole.

Roy

SSS is correct for once. I have been through a couple rapid decompressions. Once in a T-29 (Convair 220) below 20,000 feet. The cabin filled with fog. We didn’t have oxygen masks so the pilot put the aircraft into a steep dive to below10k. It cleared out everyone’s ears. In jets we all wore helmets with oxygen masks. Going on 100% oxygen was great for hangovers.

Persnickety
Persnickety

The holes in the first photo look awfully jagged to be shell holes, though they might be around the right size. The grazing holes in the second photo do look exactly like what I’d expect of shell holes. (BTW, 30mm projectiles are shells, not mere bullets.) I don’t know if it was a missile, cannon fire, or some combination of both. I do believe that there is nearly zero chance of the rebels doing this, based on both capabilities and intentions, nor is there any chance of the actual Russians doing this, based on intentions and controls. That leaves me to conclude that the Ukrainian nazis (the ones the US neocon regime support) must have done it.

Billy
Billy

The SU-25 (FROGFOOT) carries, amongst other fun things, the Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2. A 30mm dual barrel automatic cannon with a pilot-selected variable rate of fire.

Caliber is 30x165mm, electrically primed. Roughly the size of a hairspray can, the projectiles are roughly the same size as a railroad spike. Comes in your standard flavors of high explosive, HEI, HEI-T, AP, depleted uranium, etc..

Here. To give you an idea of the size of this round, these guys are loading a Soviet 2A42. The gun uses the same 30x165mm round as the SU-25…

comment image

Winston
Winston

I’m not sure about planes. However, I was on submarines. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that plane was not brought down by a submarine. At least an American one….

doubleguns
doubleguns

Everyone sure those holes were not put in that metal after it was on the ground. Not saying I know anything but just speculation.

As noted in previous comment,

“Here. To give you an idea of the size of this round, these guys are loading a Soviet 2A42. The gun uses the same 30x165mm round as the SU-25…”

So I got to thinking. Maybe thats what made the holes to create more confusion. I wish we knew.

Billy
Billy

double,

That is a distinct possibility, but look at the metal. I’m no FAA investigator, but I’ve seen lots of things shot to pieces by big guns.

What struck me is that some of the holes are circular – meaning they hit the fuselage at a more-or-less perpendicular angle. Some are teardrop shaped, meaning they came in at a shallow angle. But around the holes, the metal is peeled back – but only on the trailing edge. Like what you would expect aluminum to do when it is ruptured at 400+ miles per hour: peel back in the direction of the wind.

My best guess – and admitted totally amateurish – is that the cockpit was hosed down with automatic cannon fire, which obliterated the pilots. Being hit with a high explosive round the size of a railroad spike at 3000fps will do that. Cabin pressure didn’t matter beyond that point, as the strafing would have destroyed the avionics as well as the pilots. Meaning the plane was a giant lawn dart from that point on…

Zarathustra

I don’t know what kind of shells would have hit that plane but I have seen pictures of WW2 30 mm cannon shells from aircraft that had fuses that detonated on contact. A single hit would blow a two or three foot wide hole in an aluminum airplane. The Japanese had a late war fighter, the KI841C that was equipped with two rapid fire 30 mm cannons in the wings and two 20 mm in the cowl. Nobody knows for sure if it was ever used in combat because no plane that ever came in combat with it would have survived. Maybe the shells that hit the jet were delayed fuse to explode inside but they look more like bullet holes to me.

Erasmus Le Dolt
Erasmus Le Dolt

Totally unqualified comment, but I read that the suspect missile is designed not to penetrate the taget but detonate prior to contact sending countless fragments to finish the job. Maybe that accounts for the bullet like holes.

Frenchie
Frenchie

Erasmus:
wrong idea. those missiles are designed to be radar guided when they are launched, and switch to heat seaking or electro-magnetic mode at few seconds before contact. the cockpit area has neither the metal mass or the heat source to attract the trajectory of such weapon. furthermore, a civil plane is too slow to push the missile to use its proximity fuse rather than to perform a direct hit.

Zara:
according to german datas, an average 3 rounds from a MK103 automatic gun (on Me262 and other various planes) placed in the wing area, tail/rudder or cockpit were enough to down a B-17 flying fortress in one pass. the B-17 was quite a rugged design and not prone to break for nothing.

doubleguns:
problem is that Russians claimed a SU-25 was in the tail of the flight almost immediatly according to their radars. too early to find this part of the cockpit and fake the impacts. and how comes so many witnesses that have no ties to Novorussia or Russians saw the attack plane following the boeing? last but not least, Ukrainians claim they had no fighter plane flying this day wich isn’t true as some take off were reported in the north of the country…why not releasing datas then? exept that all recordings have been classified in every country involved in the investigation.

as for my personal experience, I have once seen first hand what a 30mm gun means in the real world. 20 years ago, I’ve been sent to a firing range to carry a dozer on a trailer. there was a huge fuckup in communication between my truck and the tower and I entered the range as 2 Jaguars were approching. I was outside the truck when the shells hit a target less than 80 yards from me.
two pairs of 30mm guns firing 2 seconds each, it seemed 1 day for me and I tought a was going to die. it shaked like an earthquake, sounded like thunder and I dived in the dust trying to be as thin as a bug. NEVER in my life, smthg has scared such the living shit out of me.
I still have a casing at home to remind it
I have no shadow of a doubt that a plane taking such a burst will blow in a bubble of metal sheet and bolts. no need of a missile here

ragman
ragman

Rise up: I was referring to the official version….a center tank explosion or some such rot. I remember the C130 drivers testimony that they saw a missile come up from the surface and hit the TWA jet. One was a Vietnam Vet and he swore that it was a SAM, also stating that he knew exactly what a SAM looked like. frenchie: good point, I didn’t consider that. I have a problem with your second post. Putting holes in an airliner will not necessarily cause it to blow up in a bubble of metal sheet and bolts. However, if the rounds were explosive or API then all bets are off and your scenario could have certainly taken place. Great comments by all!

Frenchie
Frenchie

well Ragman, we can add as a conclusion that rebels have no aviation, exept maybe a handful of transport helicopters. they also have no interest at downing an airliner, neither they have the people able to use the only SAM launcher vehicule they took to the Ukies. by the way, they don’t have the dedicated acquisition vehicule that could allow them to plan the shooting with better detection range.
clearly the rebels didn’t do it
in the other hand Ukrainians have been caught lying so many times I stopped counting. if the flight recorders were sent to a neutral country like Switzerland and publicly analysed, I could believe to something. instead we have a blackout, and recorders sent to a NATO country. enough said, fuck it

MIA
MIA

If a BUC SAM missile was launched from the ground it would have left a heavy duty smoke / exhaust trail visible from 10 to 30 minutes and going.directly to the targeted the MH-17 aircraft. No visible contrail was ever seen or reported by any of the ground observers who heard the explosion and witnessed the crash. It it is therefore highly unlikely that a BUC SAM missile by either side downed the MH-17 aircraft.

Anonymous
Anonymous

mass murder at its finest

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