Over the last couple of months the premiums on Junk Silver have exploded.
Using the Wayback Machine website I went back in time to see what prices were historically on $100 bags of 90% Junk Silver from Apmex:
Prices for $100 Bag of 90% Junk Silver from Apmex:
There are some interesting facts here:
- It is more expensive now with spot at $15.24 than in August 2014 when spot was at $20.49.
- The current markup price is a staggering 42.59% over spot.
- Apmex’s purchase price (that is what they will pay people to buy Junk Silver), previously was right at or very close to spot. Currently the advertised purchase price is 15.75% over spot.
- However, their current sale price ($1,553.70) is marked up 23.19% over their purchase price ($1,261.26).
- Compare to August 2014 when the sale price ($1,535.82) was only marked up 4.83% over their purchase price ($1,465.03)
What is interesting is that even with these high premiums many businesses are still sold out of Junk Silver frequently. This indicates that either people are still purchasing in high volume and/or businesses are having a hard time purchasing Junk Silver to resale. But based on the very large difference between their advertised purchase price and sale price it is clear that they are making a healthy profit.
The markup on other premium silver products like American Silver Eagles is also very high currently, especially when purchasing small quantities.
It is hard to say if the price markups on Junk Silver will ever return to how low it used to be. It used to be fairly easy to purchase Junk Silver at or even a little below spot.
One advantage of purchasing Junk Silver historically when the price markups were low was the fact that it is a scarce product, and there was the possibility that a larger premium price would develop. The amount of Junk Silver coins in existence is what it is , and since no more are being minted, the amount of coins in existence will never increase. Compare this to things like American Silver Eagles which have millions of new coins minted every year.
It seems like the best option right now, to avoid paying extreme markups, is to buy generic rounds and bars, and hope that once the price of silver stabilizes that markups on Junk silver and ASE’s will come back down to more reasonable levels.
Call my coin dealer yesterday when silver was 14.60 like it is this morning. He say they had silver eagles for sale but they would be 21.50 a piece.He said they were having a hard time keeping any silver so that was the justification for the price.
Junk Silver my fat ass! To anyone that thinks this is “junk”, I’ll be happy to trade real junk, the sorry shit that’s coming out us the US Mint, for your 90% silver coins one-to-one. No? I didn’t think so! This is the last real money issued by the USofA. I’m old enough to remember 25cent gasoline. Well guess what, a real quarter will still but a gallon of gas or diesel. So much for the totally fuckin worthless “federal reserve” and their “stable prices” plan. Hang ’em all!
Tip of the hat to IndenturedServant for doing some nice research on the silver market. Well done.
It’s not my work. I got it from the link at the top of the article. It was spaced but WP choked on the formatting.
Apmex is one of the few places that still has any “junk” silver for sale, so I guess they can charge what they want. I looked at buying some “junk” silver a month or two ago and at that point the premium was so high I didn’t think it was worth it. Looks like it has gotten quite a bit worse.
“Junk” silver coins -circulated and worn silver years coins with no collector value to them- are in short supply because survivalists and such are making more demands for them and there is a diminishing supply with most either melted down for their contend over the years or bought up and held by someone.
They aren’t making any more of them, there is a limited (and diminishing) supply in relation to demand.
I haven’t seen any shortage of silver in general, even Ebay has lots and lots available. Plain small bullion bars are running around 17-18/oz delivered in small quantities. 100 oz bars run lower by a buck/oz or more.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055845.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xsilver+bullion.TRS0&_nkw=silver+bullion&_sacat=0
If your local dealer is charging much more than this for generic silver in any quantity you should look for a new dealer.
I used to lease land and buildings from an old florida cracker named john popham. He was very wealthy, but extremely low key. When we would go out to dinner, his wife would be dressed very neatly but casually, but she would be dripping with diamonds. I finally asked him how someone who spent money so carefully had so much jewelry. He had a great answer. He said, “when things are underpriced, you buy, when things are overpriced, you sell” (remember AR15’s and ammo 5 years ago?)
starfcker,
Good observation.
Most people do the opposite.
Go to your local bank and buy rolls of dimes ( $300.00) and quarters ( $500.00)….sort through them….I’ve found a dozen silver coins or more at one sitting .
Silver Coin Premiums Climb As Shortages Build – Mints Shooting Blanks
“The U.S. Mint began setting weekly sales quotas for its flagship American Eagle silver coins in July because it can’t meet demand, and the Canadian mint followed suit after record monthly sales in July. In Australia, the Perth Mint sold a record of more than 2.5 million ounces of silver this month, nearly four times more than in August, and has begun rationing supply of a new line of coins this month, a mint official said.
‘Silver [coin] demand is absolutely through the roof,’ said Neil Vance, wholesale manager at the Perth Mint. ‘There seems to be a bit of frenzy as people think there is a shortage of silver. But in fact it is a (crunch in) manufacturing capacity.’
While demand has risen in response to the slump in spot prices to $14.33 an ounce in late July and its subsequent drop to fresh six-year lows below $14 an ounce in August, mint officials also said they were caught out by the sudden interest in coins. In July, the U.S. mint halted sales for almost three weeks after running out of ‘blanks’, which are used to make coins.”
Some investors like to own physical metal to protect from volatility in other assets, particularly currencies and stocks, and to hedge against geopolitical and economic upheaval. The CBOE Volatility index, or VIX, of U.S. stocks – popularly known as the “fear index” – briefly jumped to its highest since January 2009 earlier this year.
At the U.S. Mint in West Point, New York, where the American Eagle is made, the plant is operating three shifts and paying staff overtime, a spokesman said.
The Austrian Mint, which has begun allocating sales of its Philharmonic silver coins, has increased production of silver blanks after higher-than-expected demand in July and August, a spokeswoman said.
In his 35 years of dealing precious metals, Roy Friedman, vice president of sales and trading at Manfra, Tordella & Brookes, one of the biggest U.S. wholesale coin dealers, said he could not recall seeing a squeeze in supplies of North American silver coins spilling over to coins made in Austria and the U.K. to the degree seen this year.
Dealers and mints trace the supply squeeze to a burst of buying by mom-and-pop investors in the United States, who scrambled to scoop up coins they considered to be at bargain levels after spot silver prices in early July sank to six-year lows.”
BMarcy Nicholson, A. Ananthalakshmi and Jan Harvey, Silver-coin shortage shows bright side of ‘precious metal collapse’
I would be careful about paying too high a premium for some of these coins. They seem to be driven by a coin shortage moreso than a silver bullion shortage.
The difference between the American Silver Eagle and the European Silver Philharmonic/Canadian Maple Leaf is a strong indication that the pricing is not entirely rational.
If you can get the silver you want for a reasonable premium then go for it. I expect supplies to continue to tighten for everything until after the new year at least. If not, sit on the sidelines and save your shekels until the supply and premiums normalize. Or, buy gold! Premiums are still low but seem to be rising a little bit and supply is good.
With respect to junk silver it’s been my observation that premiums have increased in conjunction with each of the last several “shortages” or tightness in the markets but premiums have not relaxed afterward. I think junk premiums will remain high for the rest of this turning so if you find some that is reasonable you better buy it. It could also be a great time to sell if the $$ is right and buy back in on sovereign silver of some type.
Sovereign mints are either not taking new orders for 2015 silver or are doing maintenance and gearing up to start the 2016 runs and it could be well into spring before things normalize. If we have a major economic collapse or black swan event things will tighten significantly and I expect everyone will start piling into gold especially the small gold coins. If you have the funds now, I’d buy now. If not, save your shekels and watch the show!
This kind of shortage is yet another reason why people should dollar cost average when buying. Make a purchase each week, every two weeks or monthly and back off when premiums take off and things tighten up. You’ll decrease your overall cost, stand a better chance of getting what you want and the frequent trips to your LCS will put you on a first name basis with them.
“Call my coin dealer yesterday when silver was 14.60our like it is this morning. He say they had silver eagles for sale but they would be 21.50 a piece.”
—-bb
Your d
Fucking skipping cursor.
Your dealer is a rip off artist, bb. Anything past $3.50 to $4 over spot for a 99.9% Silver Eagle (if you pay cash) is too much. Find another dealer.
Junk 90% silver can kiss my ass. I bought some a couple of years ago at spot. My dealer had a fucking large basket of dimes, quarters, and half dollars he couldn’t wait to get rid of.
“I’ll be happy to trade real junk, the sorry shit that’s coming out us the US Mint, for your 90% silver coins one-to-one. No? I didn’t think so!”
—-ragman
My answer is yes, hotrod. But not until you give me more details on the trade. And you’d better think this through, or I’ll rip you a new asshole.
SSS, premiums on Eagles are running $5+ all across the country and you have to pay now and wait weeks to take delivery. As of 9-1-15 premiums were 30% on Eagles and it has been rising since then. Those premiums are for quantity too! MB’s are going for $20+/oz.
As far as junk silver goes I think we’ve entered an era of perpetually high premiums. It’s highly desirable and any dealer who “couldn’t wait to get rid of” it is probably a fool because it’s worth 45% -101+% over spot right now.
I think ragman is talking about trading 90% dollars for Eagles but I’ll wait to see.
And before you have an anuerysm, I’m talking about circulated 90% dollars, not numismatic specimens.
Old age is making you cranky! I expect I’ll be the same.
I_S
I paid $3,50 over spot for Silver Eagles a month ago. I’m not checking this shit day-to-day. Bb said his dealer wanted $7 over spot, and I told him he’s getting ripped off. You said it’s now $5 in the entire country. Fine. You proved my point.
I don’t give a fuck about junk silver premiums or what the fuck ragman’s deal is. I challenged him, and I’d bet $100 he’s talking about common date Morgan and Peace dollars (as you said), but he didn’t specify and shot his mouth off. I’d rip him in two if he included dimes, quarters, and half dollars. If he adores junk, that’s exactly what he’d get.
Stop fucking with me. I may be cranky, but I’m very rarely ever wrong.
Silver has been in a bear market for years, the prices seem to have found support here around 15 bucks. Equities have been a raging bull for the same period, but starting show weakness. I suspect there is a decent amount of repositioning, which should lend support to price elevation. Which appears to be occurring regardless of what London deems the spot value to be.
I was a buyer at 30+, so I am definitely a buyer now,even with increased margins over spot, 20$ still seems like a very good value to me, especially considering the massive devaluation all currencies have suffered recently.
Not for all, but I recently aquired my first Morgan MS67(I dream of getting my hands on one of the 14 MS68’s ha ha).
Keep stacking all who follow these posts, may the price stay low!!!!
SSS,
Good morning!
First off, I didn’t say the premium was $5 across the country. I said it was $5 “PLUS” across the country and if you had any reading comprehension skillz you would see that I also said that $5 premium was on QUANTITY like monster boxes. Nearly every (but not all) coin dealers I’ve encountered charge a higher premium for ten coins or less and that includes all the big name dealers.
Second, what you paid a month ago in your area has little to no fucking relevance to current premiums either in your area or where the village idiot resides. Surely a man with your life experience can grasp that right? You have no basis to declare that bb’s dealer is a rip off artist. You just pulled that out of your ass. Premiums have been rising for three months and counting and you don’t have to check it day to day to know that. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume that premiums are higher today in the very shop where you paid $3.50 a month ago. Maybe you’d have to pay $4.50 or more today or perhaps your local shops are sold out. Premiums in my LCS are higher. Perhaps things are different in bb’s area as well.
Third, if ragman were offering to trade junk dimes/quarters/halves for newly minted Eagles that would be some epic bb level, retarded shit right there and a perfectly reasonable assumption if it was bb who had said it. You just went off half cocked and assumed ragman is an idiot before he had a chance to respond. However, on TBP that is indeed the sport of champions. I’ve done it myself from time to time.
Fourth, since you think I’m fucking with you I may as well dust off the old Louisville Slugger and see if I can’t get on base…………
It’s not that you’re “very rarely ever wrong”, it’s just that you’re a more colossal, condescending prick than the rest of us with your self declared superiority which begs the question, why do you hang out here anyway? You should be hanging out in a forum where you can have your superiority challenged and refined instead of lowering yourself to associate with the dregs of society who hang out here. Perhaps you’re here because the upper crust won’t have you?
Maybe you’re just bitter that your govt. set you up to waste a career fighting a ginned up war on drugs and then threw in the towel during the final inning that resulted in Fast & Furious, drug cartels stronger, more entrenched & more violent than you could ever imagine, legalized drugs in your own country, renewed growth in the heroin trade and areas of the USA so dangerous that Americans aren’t even allowed to visit them because foreign drug cartels control those areas. And all that was AFTER your govt sent you off to fight a previous ginned up war against the VC. If you hurry, you could join the ginned up War on Terror and achieve a trifecta before you check out.
I forget who it was that suggested that you need to smoke a joint sometime and relax but they were definitely right. Of all the people I’ve ever met online or in the real world, you, above all others would really benefit from gettin’ a little buzz on.
Heh!
“If you hurry, you could join the ginned up War on Terror and achieve a trifecta before you check out.”
IndenturedServant @ SSS
Done. My last 3 years at the CIA were spent working with a special FBI unit at the National Counter Terrorist Center. I was the chief of the unit, which worked domestic terrorist cases from Boston to San Diego. We got quite a few bad guys off the streets.
Don’t forget to start writing your own obituary so someone can announce at your funeral what a pure, lily-white asshole you were.
“Done. My last 3 years……………”
You’re my hero SSS. I’m sure we’re all better off for it too. Fewer rights and freedoms for us hard working, tax (and CIA salary/retirement paying) folks and more rights and freedoms for the terrorists plus they win the immigration lottery. You must be so proud.
No funeral for me. Gonna dump my carcass in a field and let the critters get to work. My choice………The Body Farm in TN. Maybe an armadillo will piss on me for you?
No obituary either as I already broadcast what a pure lily-white asshole I am quite frequently. This way I get to enjoy the reaction whilst I’m alive. I should get a shirt made or bread-board sign listing my asshole like qualities.
No disputing the points I raised though…………I win! Yer welcome!
Heh!
SSS, you should talk to flash and figure out how to game the thumbs down count. Surely my comments deserved more than one? 🙂
Junk aint really “junk” 🙂 You could actually just have gone to the mints silver historic price charts to see the silver price as far back as 1971 I believe.. dont quote me on that – http://bullion.nwtmint.com/spot-price-charts.php