Trump tweeted something a few days ago that is still bothering me today. (Sorry if this has already been discussed since then.)
He tweeted; –“Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag – if they do, there must be consequences – perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!“
REALLY???
The question is not about your opinion about flag burning. But, feel free to include a sentence, or two. Me? I don’t like flag burners, but, in America, this is one the freedoms we have …. to show disagreement with the government.
Q1: IF Trump were to get his wish, wouldn’t this be the beginning of the end of the Constitutional Right to dissent?
Q2: Is it legitimate to start wondering if the Trump Way is the way to tyranny?
.
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Personally, I don’t appreciate flag burners, but the Supreme Court ruled back in 1989 that it is free speech protected by the First Amendment. Leftists that are criticizing Trump over the issue would do well to remember that Hillary Clinton co-sponsored a bill to criminalize flag burning in 2005. This just seems like Trump being Trump. Nothing more.
Q1: IF Trump were to get his wish, wouldn’t this be the beginning of the end of the Constitutional Right to dissent?
The Supreme Court settled the issue of flag burning years ago. It’s protected speech.
Q2: Is it legitimate to start wondering if the Trump Way is the way to tyranny?
Trump says stupid shit all the time. This is example #582. Ignore it.
Looks like nkit and I said exactly the same thing, only differently. Heh.
nkit / SSS (good to see you post)
Yes, I am aware of the Supreme Court decision.
But, I ask you … are Supreme Court decisions final? . Answering my own question; no, they can be overturned …. albeit with great difficulty.
Trump promises to undo a shitload of Obummer’s EOs. And, Obamacare. And Treaties. So, I wouldn’t put that much faith in a bygone decision.
Yes, Trump SAYS stupid shit. That’s because he’s not President yet. What will he DO, when he is POTUS? What if he acts on his stupid shit … like, actually having dissenters jailed?
Who cares? If something was illegal for more than half my life, it won’t bother me if it’s banned again. War on leftists sounds fine (and fun) to me. And starting with saying, “you will act with respect” is a good way to start. Burn a flag, back to wherever you came from. Simple. You know the risks, conduct you’re self accordingly. I don’t feel any freer just because some asshole wants to burn a flag. Let them burn it somewhere else. Any ‘right’ the supreme court has found in my lifetime is pretty suspect in my book, if hillary had won, the court would be finding them right and left. Fuck that.
TRUMP doesn’t say stupid stuff. He just TROLLED Crooked Eye Clinton who proposed a Flag Protection law in 2005, as a Senator, that had a 1 year in jail penalty & he got revoking citizenship out in the open to reverse the leftist judge who created anchor babies as citizens in the 80s.
Its painful to read that no one here noticed it was proving Clinton hypocrisy and highlighting the cntrl-left would go after you for a hate crime for burning a Mexicant flag.
People are acting like checkers is 3 dimensional chess, read TRUMPs books
*blink*
Alright… been going since Friday night with only occasional naps. I’m exhausted.
/gnight TBP!
Indeed. Trump LOVES to troll his enemies, and this was a classic example!
I interpreted that comment as wishful thinking on his part, not a promise to try to change the parameters of free speech.
And, of course, thinking never leads to action. Right?
We should be more worried about comrades (?) burning down whole areas of the country.
http://www.revelation12.ca/?p=11
Porno, nude dancing and burning the Yankee Flag is free speech but Prayer in a Southern school is forbidden speech? The SCOTUS is over loaded with Cultural Communist and needs to be rebooted.
there will be prayers in school as long as there are algebra tests
“Who cares?” ——– starfcker
You do. You cared enough to respond. I care. Last year I wrote an original article and noted that Trump might very well morph into a dictator.
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“Burn a flag, back to wherever you came from.”
What if they’re from here? People whose families have been here more than 100 years? Where you gonna send them?
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“I don’t feel any freer just because some asshole wants to burn a flag.”
You don’t understand the nature of progressive tyranny. Flag burning is nothing more than a method of expression dissatisfaction with the government. Banning that action is no sweat off your balls. The next step can easily lead to passing a law banning the verbal criticism of government — after all, the Rubicon has been crossed. After that, a law banning the criticism of the President. Are your balls sweating yet … or are you still OK with that? Still feeling free?
I’m quite confident he has no intentions of acting on it. I don’t think he even means it.
His entire purpose was to lure Hillary supporters into a catch-22. He was trolling. The objective is cause a mental bind as they try to figure out how to reconcile their opposition of him just expressing an idea versus Hillary actually proposing it.
He’s trolling people because he knows he won’t be following through with it and can take the temporary “loss” for the greater long term gain of one more permanent wrench in the leftist machinery trying to hate everything about him.
I’ll bet his strategists suggested he toss out a non-binding comment that most people won’t be thinking about a couple of weeks from now but carries lasting effect on the arguments of liberals who are still with her. Either they defend his stance (unthinkable!) or they condemn Hillary too.
Smooth persuasion as Mr. Dilbert would say.
Stucky, I’m with RHS on this. That the left (and the corporatist right) manage to get judges on the court, and get their way on something doesn’t mean jackshit to me. And I’m certainly not going to start defending my new right. Back to where? How about the Gulf of Mexico? We could resettle large populations of scum out there. Lots of wide open spaces. Crap like this ( and Kelo, and Citizens United, and Burwell) are why the Supreme court is so important. Get it wrong, and there’s your tyranny. Unelected, unaccountable, kings for life. We dodged a bullet with Trump, not time to hyperventilate.
I though do not like it and any message protestors trying to convey lost on me when they burn the flag,the flag that represents the freedoms to protest,and,well……burn the flag would still not make it illegal,hell,would feel a desire to burn it in protest of said decision,the only time I would even consider that act.I disagree with making it outlawed as another of many slippery slopes we are going down in this country.
With folks who believe in what the flag stands for we can take care of it just fine,and,if a flag falls in battle we have plenty of reserves.
I do agree with the protest of folks who hang flag upside down as a country wide SOS,they though,treat it with respect.
Stucky, I think and hope I am correct, that those close to him, such as Bannon and Priebus would convince him that taking legal action against a flag burner here and there is not the wisest decision. He has so many more important issues to address. Again, I think Trump is just appealing to his Bible-loving, gun-toting, America-loving electorate while building up his MAGA meme. Patriotism..it’s what’s for dinner.
It is precisely the pettiness and trivialness that makes me confident this is nothing more than a psy-bomb tossed at Hillary supporters.
The entire Trump campaign has been running (and winning) on these sort of tactics.
Q1: IF Trump were to get his wish, wouldn’t this be the beginning of the end of the Constitutional Right to dissent?
Not likely that Trump is serious but the end of the right to dissent has already started,along with the erosion of most of our other rights.
How many of you believe that we are as free today as 5,10,20 years ago?
Tampa, exactly my point. How many of these bullshit supreme court decisions from my lifetime have made us freer?
Not many Star. Didn’t I see something within the last few days where they authorized (upheld)the right of law enforcement to intercept communications from thousands of computers w/o separate warrants?
It was a child porn case so that makes it alright.Kinda how the seriousness of drunk driving makes it ok to approve roadblocks even though it has been proven that they are not very effective for reducing drunk driving.
My question is who owns the flag? If it’s public property then burning it is an act of vandalism. If someone else owns it is an act of theft. If it belongs to you then burn the fucker if you wish.
As for the flag itself, fuck it. It’s just a piece of cloth.
“Any ‘right’ the supreme court has found in my lifetime is pretty suspect in my book”
—-starfckr
How about the Miranda decision in 1966 by the liberal Warren Court that morphed into a REQUIRED police warning, when confronting and arresting a suspect, “You have the right to remain silent”? That ruling ensured that everyone’s 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination is protected. Pretty good ruling in my book.
@ Stucky – you appear to grant too much power to the president. Yes, Trump can erase any executive order by the stroke of his pen. But the president cannot take the country on a path to overturn Supreme Court decisions. That’s done by one, and only one, way. ESTABLISHED CASE LAW that winds its way through the court system (state and federal) and finds itself accepted by members of the court. And how do the Supremes decide whether or not to accept a case? Only if there is a consensus that there is a constitutional issue at hand.
Trump will have some pretty smart lawyers on his White House staff. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump hears this every now and then, “Mr. President, you can’t do that.”
You sure that’s the one you want to stand on?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Miranda
Razzle above is completely correct- the primary audience for that tweet was the press and other progressive, butt-sore losers in the election. In fact, I suspect 95% of the people who even read his tweets are his political enemies. I don’t follow him on Twitter, and I suspect 99.999% of the people who voted for him don’t either- if they read a tweet of Trump’s it is second hand from some progressive writer/speaker who fancies himself an intellectual.
I don’t know that he was aware of Clinton’s sponsorship of the anti-flag burning bill, but he knew that the tweet would incite his enemies to burn flags everywhere, especially during the “Thank You Tour” that, “coincidentally” started the next day. This was a world class case of trolling, and it succeeded.
Seriously, he probably should have tweeted that it should be illegal to stick bowling pins up one’s own ass.
Trump will lighten up on the flag burning when he realizes that many of them are made in China.
This Headline from the Huffpo rag states “94 Percent Of American Flags Imported Into The U.S. Last Year Came From China”. And that was 2013.
“Ninety-four percent or $3.6 million worth of the flags imported into the U.S. last year came from China, according to data from the U.S. Census Bureau. American manufacturers still make up the bulk of the business — they produced more than $300 million worth of American flags, banners and similar items in 2007, the latest year for which data is available. Still, foreign-made flags present “a serious threat,” to the industry Chris Binner, the vice president of marketing and sales for flagmaker Valley Forge, told The Huffington Post”.
Every 4th of July, our association puts out the little flags in everyones yard. Every year I check the little booger only to find a “made in China” tag on it. I throw it away.
Q1… Opinions are like assholes. We all have one. Trump has his own… opinion.
Q2… See Q1 & you can wonder whatever you wish. If you can really see into the future how about sharing the winning lottery numbers for the week otherwise it seems we will see what happens when it happens. It’s still a big club, & we ain’t in it.
Burning the flag is protected under free speech…but it is perhaps not a civil or wise thing to do, for eventually those who do not care for such behavior will not care over much about “freedom” as long as it gets those who do so to stop doing it.
This is how human nature works.
At which point being jailed would be the least worst option for said flag burner, and the least worst thing that could happen to society (unless of course one loves anarchy, which will always lead to a tyrant/fascism).
Trump says dumb things, but sometimes I wonder if he uses dumb utterances smartly — because he seems to understand how human nature works (I’m not certain if this is a bad or a good thing, maybe both).
Me? I think “liberty and freedom” are things only truly found in the grave, along with “peace” (and maybe not even there)…anyway, those left the building they might have been in long ago: societies that can’t govern themselves with even a modicum of civic/personal responsibility tend to become totalitarian at some point; it’s the natural course of thing.
Machiavelli was a disillusioned idealist.
Might as well update the flag burning policy for the soft tyranny that was once a republic. It’s simple, want to burn a flag? Apply and pay for a permit. No permit? Then it’s “bailiff wack his pee-pee” or some other stupid and painful punishment.
Meh.
You sure that’s the one you want to stand on?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Miranda
—-starfcker @ SSS
Damn sure. Ernesto Miranda was a criminal dirtbag, but so what? The personal liberties and legal protections provided by the Constitution belong to all citizens, even dirtbags.
That decision is just a loophole for scum to walk. Hard enough to catch a criminal. They don’t need more loopholes. The country did fine for 190 yearswithout some ‘right’ liberal supreme court justices invented out of whole cloth. Show me miranda in the constitution. Didn’t think so.
Donald J Tyrant’s to do list:
Appoint Neo-Cons, former Generals, Vampire Squid insiders to new Cabinet
Appoint ‘Bridge to Nowhere’ Palin to VA
Suppress dissent, make flag burning illegal with full TBP approval, especially Starfuck’s
Float balloon to gauge popular support for government power to strip people of their natural born right to citizenship for disagreeing with D Tyrant – Starfuck on board
Float balloon to gauge popular support for tyrannical actions on the basis of national security, Starfuck on board
Brow beat corporations to join government fascisti efforts to manage the economy – Stronger Together
Keep tweeting unconstitutional proposals to morans until they buckle and accept all Tyrant opinions as truth
I didn’t say strip them of citizenship. I said dump them in the ocean.
He didn’t restrict his tweet to green card holders, he threatened all Americans. And you thought simply deploring them for disagreeing was bad. This dude wants to deport ALL dissenters.
Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius
“Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.” Uh huh.
Plainer the Better. The mutants can’t even speak English.
Loose translation:
“Kill them all; let God sort them out.”
Well, they had gays taking pics of themselves in front of a rainbow colored White House.
Maybe this time we will see a cross burning ceremony with cabinet members in full KKK regalia in front of the white house and crackers taking selfies in front of the whole scene.
Any of you ex-military types will know that the only proper way to dispose of an American flag is to burn it in the proper ceremony. Many local governments will perform this ceremony on a yearly basis so that we may honorably retire our old flags. Burning a flag doesn’t necessarily mean someone hates this country.
Hey Coyote ,why do you bash Trump?Are you worried about being deported yourself? I won’t let him deport you ,just the
other 25 million illegals.
The beautiful blonde told me that if I don’t vote, I have no right to complain. Actually, I do. I reserve the right to complain about anybody who has the power to send me or my family to war or to prison or even deport me as was done in the 30’s to natural born citizen beaners. I’m not comfortable around anybody with a gun.
My old boss, Earnie said of his boss, I don’t like him, he has too much power over my paycheck.
The Italian Stallion said that he sided with the underdog. https://youtu.be/e7cry-4pyy8
Those of you who base your position on “the Supreme Court has decided it” are short-sighted (to say the least). Dozens of decisions since the 1950’s have overturned *previous* Supreme Court decisions. Burning an American flag to show your hatred and contempt for America is not “free speech”, and the Supreme Court didn’t say it is. Rather, it is said to be “symbolic” speech. But there is no protection for “symbolic” speech in the Constitution, only “speech”. Trump is spot-on: If you want to publicly burn the Ameican flag to show your hatred and contempt for America, you can get your ass out of the country. The U.S. Constitution is a constitution, not a suicide pact (and yes, the Supreme Court said that too).
Well said, Ralph
Writing is symbolic.
All speech is symbolic.
Trump can express an opinion, but getting such an opinion to become law is another story.
I wasn’t aware of Hillcunt’s Flag Protection law. The comment that Trump was trolling her seems quite reasonable …. if only I could believe Trump is actually aware of that Hillcunt attempt. I doubt he is.
Anyway, great responses all around.
Between Trump’s questionable (imho) Cabnet picks, and the stupid shit he says …. well, folks like Scott Adams and PCR spend a lot of time trying to convince us that IT’S ALL PART OF A PLAN …. that Trump is this super-duper Jedi negotiator fucking with his opponents via mind tricks. Trust us, he knows what he is doing.
To me, it’s starting to sound like the game of Making Excuses. But, we shall see after 100 days.
While it’s possible… I don’t think Trump is actually just sitting there tweeting whatever comes to his mind all by himself.
He has staff that feed him things worth putting out there and then he does it in his characteristic way. He’s not like your or I (were we to tweet) literally all alone wondering what to say.
His twitter is a group effort and you can bet your bottom dollar his staff are scouring constantly for relevant things and probably have a large backlog ready to be released when relevant, or when a lull in energy/attention needs to be spruced up.
Maybe we should just wait for Pence to announce the correct policy while pretending he never heard what Trump said.
Of course, that puts the lie to Scott Adam’s bullshit rationalizing every time Trump puts hoof in mouth.
Maybe Melania shouldn’t wait like Nancy did until Ronnie was completely out of it before taking over the presidency.
Oh please. Those of you saying “Trump says stupid things” or “Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing” are little more than clueless virtue-signalers. He just won the Presidential election while opposed by nearly every political, social, economic, and media power-structure in Western Civilization, including much of the Republican Party itself. Do tell us how “he doesn’t know what he’s doing” and how “we’re making excuses for him”. If he accomplishes 1/100th of his platform, he will have created a civilizational tectonic shift that just may save America, if not the entire West.
Your petty sniping notwithstanding.
OK, so he knows how to win an election.
That’s not the same as knowing how to run a country.
He DOES say stupid shit — only a hardcore looneytunes Trump-eteer will deny that. Soooo, we do know what camp you are in.
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If Trump closes the border to illegal immigration, and keeps us out of a nuke war … then, he will have met my expectations in saving America.
Not only is trump trolling Clinton he is baiting protesters into burning flags at his rallies. There is no better way to piss off middle America and drive them into the arms of your opposition than to burn a flag.
Fuck you and your stupid infantile “QOTD’s”
That does it! I’m not sending you a Christmas card this year.
I don’t care about the card Uncle Stucky .Just don’t forget the fruitcake & the check.
Stucky,
The answers to your questions: No and No.
First, Trump was merely expressing his disgust with these flag burners, a disgust felt by most decent Americans. He did not say he intended to either jail them or strip them of their citizenship. He said he would like to. I would like to flog most Democrats to ribbons to beat some sense into their heads. Not much chance of that happening.
Second, no, this is not the road to tyranny. Most countries have severe penalties for desecrating sacred national symbols and they are hardly tyrannies. The problem is that in the United States we have become so used to seeing people do outrageous and vile things that we imagine that these things are in some way “protected speech”. The pathetic intellectual level of the Supreme Court is amply demonstrated by their obviously absurd finding that flag burning is OK. These flag burning have a thousand ways to express their views without destroying the very symbol of our nation.
Trump “DOES say stupid shit — only a hardcore looneytunes Trump-eteer will deny that. Soooo, we do know what camp you are in.”
Now *that’s* a substantive argument Stucky! I am undone, defeated even! 🙂
I, like millions of others of Americans, are disgusted with burning the Stars & Stripes. It’s an eff-you to all who love this country. A Constitutional Amendment would stop this stupid shit. It’s a long shot…. but.
Try burning the fag flag, or the flag of mexico and see what happens. Personally I am insulted beyond description by those that continue to defame our symbols and our culture and hide behind the First amendment. Those that do so are effing cowards.
I propose that we join the other 180 or so countries on the planet that have made it illegal to burn the symbol of their nation.
It’s not exactly a free speech thing if one is wiping their ass with our flag.
I think Trump was testing the water and the mood of the citizens while at the same time punking Hillary and the left.
Who gives a rat’s ass if some braindead communist burns the flag. I wouldn’t burn the flag, but it is just a fucking symbol. And considering all the war mongering the US has done, the symbol doesn’t mean much to me.
The flag is the official symbol of the government, the very agency that takes away your freedom. It was commissioned by the government and the stars and stripes represent political jurisdictions, aka tax farms. The flag very literally represents your enslavement. Americans will never be free until they’re willing to burn the symbol of their oppressors.