“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee
The man was perceptive. Amalgamation of the states under a central government has led to exactly the effects foreseen by General Lee.
In, say, 1950, to an appreciable though imperfect extent America resembled a confederacy. Different regions of the America had little contact with each other, and almost no influence over one another. The federal government was small and remote. Interstates did not exist, nor of course the internet, nor even direct long-distance telephone dialing. West Virginia, Alabama, Massachusetts, New York City, Texas, and California had little in common, but little conflict arose since for practical purposes they were almost different countries. They chiefly governed themselves. The proportion of federal to state law was small.
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It is important to note that regional differences were great. In 1964 in rural Virginia, the boys brought shotguns to school during deer season. Nobody shot anybody because it wasn’t in the culture. The culture was uniform, so no one was upset. It is when cultures are mixed, or one rules another, that antagonism comes. Such shotgun freedom would not have worked in New York City with its variegated and often mutually hostile ethnicities.
Regions differed importantly in degree of freedom, not just in the freedom of local populations to govern themselves but also in individual freedom. It made a large difference in the tenor of life. If in Texas, rural Virginia, or West Virginia you wanted to build an addition to your house, you did. You didn’t need licenses, permits, inspections, union-certified electricians. Speed limits? Largely ignored. Federal requirements for Coast Guard approved flotation devices on your canoe? What the hell kind of crazy idea was that?
Democracy works better the smaller the group practicing it. In a town, people can actually understand the questions of the day. They know what matters to them. Do we build a new school, or expand the existing one? Do we want our children to recite the pledge of allegiance, or don’t we? Reenact the Battle of Antietam? Sing Christmas carols in the town square? We can decide these things. Leave us alone.
States similarly knew what their people wanted and, within the limits of human frailty, governed accordingly.
Then came the vast empire, the phenomenal increase in the power and reach of the federal government, which really means the Northeast Corridor. The Supreme Court expanded and expanded and expanded the authority of Washington, New York’s store-front operation. The federals now decided what could be taught in the schools, what religious practices could be permitted, what standards employers could use in hiring, who they had to hire. The media coalesced into a small number of corporations, controlled from New York but with national reach. More recently we have added surveillance of everything by Washington’s intelligence agencies.
Tyranny at home, said said General Lee . Just so. This could happen only with the consolidation of the states into one vast empire.
Tyranny comes easily when those seeking it need only corrupt a single Congress, appoint a single Supreme Court, or control the departments of one executive branch. In a confederation of largely self-governing states, those hungry to domineer would have to suborn fifty congresses. It could not be done. State governments are accessible to the governed. They can be ejected. They are much more likely to be sympathetic to the desires of their constituents since they are of the same culture.
Aggressive abroad, said General Lee. Is this not exactly what we see? At this moment Washington has the better part of a thousand military bases around the world, unnecessary except for the maintenance of empire. America exists in a state of constant war, bombing Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Somalia, recently having destroyed Iraq and Libya. Washington threatens Iran, North Korea, Russia, and China. Its military moves deeper into Africa. Washington sanctions Cuba, Russia, North Korea, and Iran, to no effect. It constantly tries to dominate other nations, for example adding to NATO.
None of these wars and little if any of the imperial aggression interests more than a tiny fraction of the country’s people. To whom can the war against Afghanistan matter? Libya? Few people have heard of Montenegro. Does its membership in NATO or lack of it affect Idaho?
In a confederacy, states would have to approve a war. Few would unless the United States itself were threatened. They might well refuse to pay for wars not in their benefit, or to allow their sons, daughters, and transgenders to be conscripted.
But with a central government, those benefiting from war can concentrate money and influence only on that government. For example, military industry, Israel, big oil, Wall Street. Wars might carry the votes of states with arms factories. Other states would decline.
In principle, the Constitution should have prevented the hijacking of the military that we now suffer. As we all should know, and some do, America cannot under the Constitution go to war without a declaration by Congress, the last one of which occurred in 1941. But a single central government can be corrupted more easily than fifty state governments. A few billionaires, well-funded lobbies, and the remoteness of Washington from the common consciousness make controlling the legislature as easy as buying a pair of shoes.
And thus, just as Marse Bob expected, the federals are out of control and make war without the least reference to the nation. If America attacks North Korea, or Russia, or China, we will read of it the day after. The central government, and only the central government, decides. A few days ago I read that the Pentagon contemplates sending thousands of additional troops to Afghanistan. This combines tyranny at home and aggression abroad. Who wants to send them? A few neocons in New York, the arms industry, a few generals, and several senators. It could not happen in a confederacy.
Will this, as General Lee predicted, prove “the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.”? Wait.
i concur—–spot on.
In 1965 high school boys in Oswego, Jefferson and Lewis counties in Northern New York often had shot guns and sometimes grandpa’s octagon barrel 30/30 in the pickup truck during deer season. Probably in more than half the 62 counties in the Empire State, this was also true. Astoundingly, most of these upstate counties (exceptions : Onondaga, Eire, Monroe, Tompkins(Cornell dominated) and Essex where almost everyone is a state prison complex employee) voted for DJT in November 2016. Other than that tidbit of info,the posting is 4 by 4.
Friend of mine in high school (Pennsylvania, 1974) showed up late one day for school with more than a little blood on his clothes. Deer season, had his rifle in his car, shot a deer on the way in, gutted it, took it home and hung it and didn’t bother changing clothes.
Shotguns in racks visible in pickup rear windows was not uncommon in the HS parking lot in fall.
NO ONE CARED. No one tried to steal them, either. The English teacher chided with my friend about not bothering to change clothes. But no one freaked, no one protested, no one thought it was unusual. And the thought of someone getting mad and going out to their truck and bringing a weapon into school simply never occurred. Why would we do that? We were part of the culture, it was our culture, we didn’t want to harm it.
We saw the way people used guns on TV and thought they were nuts.
I believe that the big change in America came when the black “community” started to vote and demonstrate AND populate with little rhyme or reason. The resulting liberal politicians, fatherless families, and violence in America resulted in more chaos and more restrictions on freedom. I blame the downfall of our culture mainly (and in general) on irresponsible black men and women………..many who are in politics. The statistics are there……
It wasn’t the blacks who expanded the empire and the police state where EVERYONE is under surveillance.
Agree w/you GV.
Blacks are less than 15% of the population.Even if all of them were a problem,which is certainly not the case,that’s less than 15 people out of every 100 people.
The real problem that most of us do not want to face is that the real problems come from our fellow whites,the ones we’re related to,work with,raised,and yeah,sleep with.
How many of you are prepared to confront the people who are close to you?
Did anyone notice that this is a Fred Reed article?
It is just too interesting that Gen. Robert E. Lee was the 5th cousin of Lee Harvey Ozwald in “the” bloodline from which all the important people and actors/politicians etc. come. Scroll down, Oswald is right below Randolph Scott.
https://famouskin.com/famous-kin-menu.php?name=4640+robert+e+lee
BL,
very cool, thank you
bullshit is more likely.
Robert E. Lee from an 1861 letter to his son: “But I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation. I hope, therefore, that all constitutional means will be exhausted before there is a resort to force. Secession is nothing but revolution.”. en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_E
And the South tried for decades but the North would not cease their economic and military tyranny so we finally seceded. I regret that we did not end slavery first and that we lost the war. The whole country needs to fight the Union to end racial discrimination against Whites and Asians.
Is there a point in there or is your only point on top of your head?
Ed, whatsa matta you?
I know it looks like I replied to fleabaggs, but that was a reply to libtard marshrabbit. The way these discussions thread sucks.
On the contrary, tribalism will be the downfall of the nation.
you spelled immigration wrong
Small states made up of and governed by cohesive tribes may be the only thing that will save liberty. Fuck the nation.
I agree. The US was never intended to be a nation, but a confederation of states. Consolidation was always the goal of the yankee elites. Once they got what they wanted, the inevitable result was what we see now.
wrong
Maybe it’s a shame he didn’t know how to fight a war to win it.
Aside from being one of the most honorable men America ever produced Lee was one of the greatest military tacticians in recorded history. The South would have been rolled up in less than a year were it not for his brilliant martial abilities. The Confederacy was defeated by the Norths superior industrial base and agricultural production. That the South fought for 4 years and came within a hair’s breadth of winning was miraculous in itself.
Yeah, he was so brilliant he lost the war.
He LOST the war you idiot, mostly because he expended his forces at Gettysburg instead of marching on Washington the way he had originally set out to do. A battle that should have never been fought with all the odds stacked against him and obviously so.
But I suppose you think losing demonstrates military brilliance, don’t you.
But it doesn’t, it demonstrates losing because you don’t know how to win. Generals who know how to win, win and those who don’t know how to lose to them.
That’s a simple fact of warfare.
Anon….you=fucking idiot
Ko, online discussions always have some retarded Massa Abe worshipper repeating the same tired old shit. Face to face discussion of the war in the South feature one or more dickheads like anonyhole getting their asses whipped and having to run home crying to their mamas.
It used to be republitards getting whipped. Now it’s usually demtards getting the shit beat outta them. Not much difference, really. They’re all ‘tards.
A march to Washington would have been no cake walk. Meade was ready for this contingency with his Pipe Creek Line.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/pipecree.html
Yep, It was never seen who the South’s best general was as Stonewall Jackson was killed early on and Jefferson Davis and Bragg didn’t like Nathan Bedford Forrest. Those two were the best, better than Lee. That being said, Bragg was an atrocious general and one of the most incompetent who was also a very large contributor to the South losing. To think that this country’s biggest special operator military base is named after one of the most incompetent Civil War generals is laughable.
Jesus! I am forced to answer this idiot again. Lee lost the war for the simple reason that he was fighting an enemy with overwhelming superiority in almost everything but courage. In that both sides were equal. Lee did not “march on Washington”, you foolo, because he knew he had to defeat the Union field army first (though he never intended to fight at Gettysburg; he was forced to fight there because of errors by his subordinates – even so he accepted blame for that defeat). The march to Washington would have been a cakewalk. Sure, until Meade’s superior army caught up with him and trapped him far from his supply lines. I wish we had better armchair generals out there. Hey, Anon, any general (such as Grant or Sherman) can win a war when he outnumbers his enemy, has limitless supplies of arms and money and is prepared to condone vast war crimes to accomplish it. Every respected military historian – especially foreign ones with no axe to grind – recognizes Lee’s accomplishments.
He knew. Lee had only about 1/3 of the troops he needed and less than 1/5 of the arms and munitions. Couple that with the problem of having about 10% of the food needed for his army, he did a remarkable job.
He marched into battle and got his army decimated knowing he couldn’t win.
Had he avoided the major battle and chosen battles he could have won instead he might have won for the South, but he chose to attempt an impossible battle and lost instead.
Armchair generals are so pathetic.
There are always ifs, but if Longstreet had gotten Hood to march earlier instead of farting around for half a day July 2 of the battle, and taken Little Round Top (which he almost took anyway), the northerners would have had their whole line rolled up like a carpet all the way to Cemetery Ridge. If one has ever gone to the battlefield, cannon from Little Round Top enfiladed the Picket/Pettigrew attack on July 3, 1863.
Meade was ready to retreat anyway.
Chosen battles? Yes, I am sure Grant would have cooperated.
Ed,
thank you for that admission sir…
as a naturalized citizen, I have no stake but
for the truth.
It’s a shame you can’t make a living sucking dicks, anonyhole. You’re probably brilliant at it.
ED.
No matter how many times I tell him to get a name he still hides behind anonymousey.
Typical ‘tard. I’d guess he already has a name, but doesn’t want to use it.
I’m not a Southron, lest you think I’m biased. my great, great, great grandfather was a Union soldier, killed at Fredericksburg. You are a fucking moron.
Burr, maybe my G G grand uncle, Jennings, killed your G G G grandfather.
If not for the untimely death of Stonewall Jackson you would be whistling dixie. Lee was brilliant.
I agree completely with Racistwhiteguy.
Excuse me? The South had little chance of winning an industrialized war at all. That the South held on as long as it did was due largely to the genius of Lee, the courage of his soldiers and the determination of the great majority of the Southern people. Vastly outnumbered and with his enemy refilling his ranks with destitute immigrants right off the boat, only a miracle or a lack of resolve on the Union side could have led to a different result. Your snide, snotty comment is typical of a half-educated yokel, the kind who thinks Ken Burns is a great intellectual.. Had all else been equal no general in the Union army could have defeated Lee, to say nothing of Jackson or, in a smaller sphere, Forrest. There was not a single significant battle in which Union troops defeated a superior Confederate force. We are all Americans now and should not refight battles from 150 years ago, but those are the facts.
Ken Burns is a film maker; not a historian. He had the good sense to call on intellectuals like Barbara Fields and Shelby Foote for his Civil War project.
And they screwed it up.
“a declaration by Congress, the last one of which occurred in 1941”.
Ah no, our last declaration of war was in June 1942.
https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/h_multi_sections_and_teasers/WarDeclarationsbyCongress.htm
Yepper. These views into history are a large part of what I like at TBP. Sometimes the rants are epic, but there are a lot of knowledgeable people who post here and you can learn things that our teachocracy won’t tell you.
Over a century ago the United States embarked on an imperialist adventure in the Spanish American war that left it with the Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico. While it was ‘fashionable’ at the time among the Great Powers to assert their dominion over unorganized territory or decaying empires we are living with the consequences of that today as former colonial populations inundate the ‘mother countries’ with the native populations having little or no say on the matter.
As to ‘armed’ school kids I would point out that in my school days there were Junior ROTC programs at many high schools including one I attended ( Woodrow Wilson) in Washington, D.C. The Cadet Corps at this school numbered about 200 male students who paraded with functional M-1 rifles and carried them down the halls of the school to and from their drills. In fact I have seen a picture of an all black high school Cadet Corps at Western High School , again in Washington, posing in 1890 with rifles and swords at that school. No one thought of high school students, even black ones, as a ‘threat’ in those days and the idea of armed police officers and metal detectors being de rigueur at urban high schools would have been seen as ridiculous.
Staunton Military Academy, Va.
400 high testosterone cadets all armed with functioning M-1’s. Lots of fist fights, nobody got shot. Oh, and no anti-depressants (besides a smuggled Colt-45 (beer) or two).
unit,
re imperialist adventures/what goes around
comes around.
As a kid, i had (have) a beauty
22 long gun, all carved and sweet. It was used
to learn to shoot at the gun club.
weird freaks are at the helm now, reveling
in imposing to boss other people around.
How about they join an SM club, and then
just leave others to a peaceful and productive
life?
Whenever someone says that the Civil War was over slavery, I object. It was primarily over secession. Lincoln claimed that it was over secession. I suspect the reason we keep getting this bogus argument it was over slavery is the powers that be know if the states could secede, they US could not destroy federalism. As it is now, the supremacy of the Federal Government coupled with the the abolition of the Constitutional constraints on the Federal Government make federalism irrelevant. But, if states would secede, then the Federal Government would tread more lightly.
A good rule of thumb is to dismiss out of hand the labels the warmongers pin on whatever slaughter they intend. The “arsenal of democracy”, the “war to end all wars” to “preserve the union”. It’s all the ear candy they use to divert attention from the real objective-political power lust. Period.
All wars are fought for money/power/money/power. The South was fighting for freedom from a tyrannical North. Slavery was on the way out anyway. Too expensive to maintain.
Immediate emancipation or gradual emancipation was the question. The South was trying to emancipate without having a race war ala Haiti.
In the end we wound up with a welfare state. Been paying for that shit ever since.
In the end the cancer will eventually kill the host.
Welcome to the New World Order.
The war was fought over secession, but the secession documents make it very clear they were seceding because of slavery.
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union:
“We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.”
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp
Constitution of the Confederate States; March 11, 1861:
“Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.”
AND
“In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.”
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp
See more documents:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/csapage.asp
The higher level was ‘states rights’
And the fact that by most estimates, the South was generating as much as 70% of the Federal revenue at that time. Lincoln was hell bent on establishing American Imperialism, and could not afford to lose that revenue. A large percentage of the Southern population, women and children included? Yeah, that was not a problem for the phony. To hell with them. And all the time he harbored a serious dislike for the black man as his writings prove. Like everything, follow the money. Qui bono?
Nkit.
Right you are, conveniently overlooked by revisionists. Also important was that the Brits were able to quickly set up plantations in Egypt to make up for the loss of Southern long staple cotton caused partly by blockade and partly by the south withholding supply hoping the Brits would recognize them as an independent country. Without the loss of revenue the South might have sent Carpet Baggers to the former Union.
Another fact forgotten by history is that the war was deeply unpopular in union states. Lincoln jailed his political opposition, used federal troops to bully people at the polls and block opposition voters, and he even shut down newspapers that were critical of his warmongering. Never before or sense had such things been done. There were riots over conscription in several major cities. Much like bush had to ‘destroy the free market in order to save it’, lincoln had to destroy the very idea of the republic in order to keep two deeply divided clusters of states together.
Marsh R.
The slaves in the 4 union slave states were not freed. Md, De, Mo, and Ky.
Wow, we better free them ASAP!
They didn’t tread lightly last time States seceded.
Why would they this time?
The States are too heavily tied to and integrated with the Federal government now to try it anyway, anyone trying it would be devastated economically at the very least as they and all their people would have no money and way to back a State currency to replace it with all their holdings outside the State no longer belonging to them.
They have to pay there share of the national debt before they leave, no dine & dash! lol
Don’t make us come down there again!!!
If it was pissants like you coming, the South would have nothing to fear.
I should be able to give you 500 thumbs up.
That’s what they said about General Sherman, lol
Sherman…the original terrorist.
If you can move it, take it! If you can’t move it, burn it! (I’m paraphrasing of course)
We are fucked!!!
It’s all an academic debate anyway, since the Confederacy never actually existed!
“Considered as transactions under the Constitution, the ordinance of secession, adopted by the convention, and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and all the acts of her legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance, were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. The State did not cease to be a State, nor her citizens to be citizens of the Union.”
Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
Robert E. Lee was essentially the leader of a band of LARP enthusiasts, just with real bullets.
Greetings,
My high school days were the early ’80’s and even then a rifle in the truck or a shotgun in the locker was just fine. We were allowed to carry knives so long as the blade was not over 4″. Today, a butter knife would get you tazed, tackled, viciously assaulted, suspended and possibly taken away from your parents. What fools we’ve become.
I would only disagree with the author on the point that the state governments are accessible. They aren’t, really. They may have been once, before senators became national figures elected by popular vote, but even then state government was mostly out of reach for most of the governed.
After Lincoln’s war, state governments became simply federal districts, controlled by the federal leviathan. The author’s mention of conditions in 1950 is pretty accurate, but it was because technology hadn’t yet advanced to the point that the federal government could take over all of the states’ functions. The framework was in place, waiting for the proper infrastructure to be built.
Our high school(Nashville TN) had a small bore rifle team that competed all over the south. Rifle and gun ownership and use was normal and expected.
If the war was fought for slavery but slave holders were exempt, then almost all Rebels were fighting for slaves that they did not have or probably didn’t ever even want? God forbid! They were fighting to get free of the oppressive greedy dirty rotten stinking Yankee Government and I’m so very sorry we lost; the reason for the war still exists.
What the union did to the South, they are now doing to the rest of the country. It’s just not as outwardly violent as in the South.
I would take a shotgun on campus in my vehicle several mornings a week after having hunted ducks in the wee hours of the morning before classes started in the late 1970’s.
Teachers were aware as some would inquire about the number of ducks killed and the administration knew it (one of them was an avid duck hunter),
No one was ever “threatened” by my Remington 1100 and no “resource officer” was necessary to protect my fellow classmates from my aggressive behavior.
I woke up early, tried to shoot a duck at daylight and went to school. Those were the days.
I never knew General Lee’s brain was so contaminated with commonsense and reasoning. Thanks be to Christ that they are finally taking down his statues (Pursuant to the appropriate permits, of course.)
I’m certain your’s isn’t burdened by knowledge. My hope is God flushes N.O. so far into the Gulf next time that even Blacks won’t return.
((Putin)) knows — ask him
It is Putin. He is not ((special)).
OK! OK! I am a Southerner, my ancestors fought in the war, but we are all Americans now! Yes, slavery was a major factor in the events that led to the war, but not the only one. Both sides fought bravely for what they believed in and, for the most part, accepted that fact about their former enemies after the war. Let’s leave it at that. Those men long ago went to their rewards.
A confederacy of states fails not merely because they won’t support a war that doesn’t directly threaten THEIR state, it fails because the states don’t provide for their common defense (and even when they pledge to do so, they renege on those promises – – hmm, sound like NATO?). You all need to look back further than the Civil War/War Between the States for your historical basis and stop quibbling about whether Lee was a great general and tactician or a terrible one…that’s as silly as debating how many angels can dance on the end (or was it tip?) of a pin.
You mean like the Swiss confederacy? It only lasted from 1291 to 1515. That’s no time at all right? You fucking mongoloid.
“God Bless Robert E Lee” sung by Johnny Cash:
https://vid.me/DtOL
The real reason the South lost was… drum roll…
((JUDAH BENJAMIN))
Judah Philip Benjamin, QC (August 11, 1811 – May 6, 1884) was a lawyer and politician who was a United States Senator from Louisiana, a Cabinet officer of the Confederate States and, after his escape to the United Kingdom at the end of the American Civil War, an English barrister. Benjamin was the first Jew to be elected to the United States Senate who had not renounced the religion, and the first of that faith to hold a Cabinet position in North America.
…
And the $$$ quote:
…
Edgar M. Kahn, in his journal article on the 1860 California sojourn, wrote, “Benjamin’s life is an example of a man’s determination to overcome almost insurmountable barriers by industry, perseverance, and intelligent use of a remarkable brain.”[167] This brilliance was recognized by contemporaries; Salomon de Rothschild, in 1861, deemed Benjamin “the greatest mind” in North America.[168]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin
I’m sure ALL of his ((success)) was a result of “hard work” and “determination”…
((WHY)) is ((Lawrence Summers)) “brilliant” like ((Benjamin))?
((WHO)) did ((Summers) and ((Benjamin)) work for?
((WHY)) was Benjamin’s picture at the top most images of Confederate leaders?
((WHY)) was he hated by most Confederate leaders?
((WHY)) was he referred to as Jefferson Davis’ “pet JEW”?
((Where)) did all that Southern gold go?
((WHO)) ran the ((Triangle Slave Trade)) and most of the ((slave trade)) throughout history?
((WHO)) blames the “white man” for operating the ((slave trade))?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Admin. this has nothing to do with the article but I came across a excellent article about the characteristics of Millennial’s. The title is “Generation Snowflake memes” Its on bruceonpolitics.com. Your welcome. God bless.