IT’S A RIGHT

Via Branco


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AWB

Where in the US Constitution does it say anyone has a right to food, clothing, shelter, and medical care? Where in the bible does it? Nowhere except socialism.

The system could be tweaked to work for all, but rather, it works for the few.

I don’t know how altruistic Trump is, but we’re going to find out. Either he sticks to his guns, and all hell breaks loose in DC, or he abdicates his principles, and the status quo wins. It’s up to the electorate in 2018 to back Trump or back the establishment. The middle class has been decimated since the Reagan Administration began reinterpreting anti monopoly laws put into place since the depression. It’s either us or them, and if reform can’t be enacted at the ballot box, it will done in the trenches. I prefer the ballot box.

Llpoh
Llpoh

AWB – I will say this nice as I can. You are a moron. It cannot be tweaked. Free shit is not sustainable and cannot be tweaked. And it sure as hell will not be resolved at the ballot box, whatever your preferences on the subject.

Anonymous
Anonymous

It worked for Rome.

Almost.

But they didn’t have us to run it or it would have.

AWB

Says the moron who expatriated. Appeasement and treaties don’t work, as you should well know. I doubt you’ll get over run in the great collapse, but you never know, regardless of your preference.

Llpoh
Llpoh

That cartoon is accurate. Giving the mouth-breathing, non-producing the “right” to health care will just be the final nail in the welfare state coffin. You need not work – food, shelter, and healthcare all all rights! Yep, that will work.

DC Sunsets

The central axiom of life is this: “In order to consume, you must first produce.”

This is Say’s Law. Why is it an axiom? Imagine how much “goods” is available in a market if people are allowed to walk in and “buy” stuff but no one is required to “make” stuff?

There are two ways to attempt to “repeal” Say’s Law.
–The magic of debt (I owe you, I’ll make some stuff in 20 years, I promise.)
–The magic of slavery (I OWN you, you make the stuff, I’ll buy it.)

Politics is the latter. Boiled to its essence, today’s political establishment intends to enslave the productive on behalf of the unproductive. Margaret Thatcher once noted that socialism eventually fails when it runs out of other people’s money.

Political slavery eventually fails because it rewards robbery and punishes production. This is akin to letting the bandits ride in and steal the farmer’s produce, and kill the farmers. Eventually NO ONE EATS.

This is the trend in the West, and will be until parasitism is no longer rewarded. Since democracy rewards parasitism, we’re a long, long way from the bottom.

Llpoh
Llpoh

Barnum – that is true. I tell all and sundry that the welfare state is doomed. Welfare cannot be the province of government. They are not equipped to determine who is worthy of the largesse. And recipients vote for ever more free shit. It is inevitably doomed. You simply cannot eat the productive forever. I am not so sure we are so far away from the bottom. The old chestnut about how did you go broke applies: slowly, then all at once.

Anonymous
Anonymous

I figure we can afford Medicare for all with around a 30% additional off the top payroll tax.

As long as we delay and ration most of the more costly medical care till after people either get well or die on their own.

If we don’t do that the percentage would have to be somewhat higher.

How much additional taxing do you think it would take?

DC Sunsets

Who decides what procedures, drugs, etc., are worthwhile?

Who decides how to allocate what are otherwise scarce resources.

If you think it can be done by central command, you’re too short for this ride.

Llpoh
Llpoh

What do you mean by 30% off the top payroll tax? Increase top tax rate to 70%? Increase medicare/SS by thirty percent, or another 4% ofvwages (not nearly enough).

I would guess – a wild ass guess – that without fixing the medical system, and given the aging population, and the explosion of illegal immigrants that is likely to occur with free medical, that you would need a couple trillion dollars more a year. Which means you would need to double income taxes. And that would destroy the US economy. And it would not end there.

Anonymous
Anonymous

I mean like SS and Medicare are done now, right off the top of the earnings before other taxes are deducted.

For everyone, and on all of their income, not just on a portion of their income as it is now.

I should have been more specific.

WIP
WIP

The American cost structure is waaaaaaay too high. Turd world nation status awaits.

hardscrabble farmer

You want to solve the so-called healthcare issue?

It’s pretty simple. You fix prices, just like they do with milk. You may only receive x for each service. Stitches, $2.00 each, aspirin, .03 each, chemotherapy, $1,000.00. You pay as you go or you have liens placed on what you own to satisfy the debt. Put a limit on care for those who actively contribute to their own illness- for every ten pounds overweight you pay a penalty for associated costs, like insulin.

This way only those who require medical attention have to pay for it, those who live reckless lives- base jumpers, crack addicts, people who ride motorcycles without a helmet, the obese, etc. foot the bills for their own risky behavior.

You eliminate insurance companies altogether and you let people who are terminal die with dignity instead of going to extreme measures to just rack up the billable expenditures. Terminate all coverage for anyone over the average age of life expectancy. You have a heart attack at age 84, we loved you Grand-pop, but it was your time.

You provide zero medical care for non-citizens or you can pay a bond upon entry to cover anything that comes up, like travelers insurance, until you are naturalized.

Now the flip side is that you’ll lose a lot of sickly and danger loving people but that’s the cost for those behaviors. You’ll dramatically lower the average life expectancy, but you’ll save a boatload in Social Security benefits. You drive a lot of people out of the medical field who went into it for the financial incentives, but you’ll gain a lot of dedicated people who want to do it because they are called to it. Of course the stock market will go in the toilet because most of the money collected by insurance companies are what keeps it afloat, but life is physics- for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Other medical providers will pop up to cater to the uber-wealthy who will pay to stay hooked up to life support for the last 20 years of their life but then it’s their money to do with what they will.

Now the healthy and productive are no longer compelled to pay for the costs of the sick and the non-productive members of society, the government is only involved when there are violations of the law-and then only in civil actions. And you put a price cap on all care, same as they do with milk regardless of what the providers may have to pay to produce their service or product.

Stucky

“Terminate all coverage for anyone over the average age of life expectancy.”

I’ll make sure I tell that to my mom who I will be taking to the Wound Care center momentarily. Die, bitch!! Right?

Glad you’re not in charge!

Anonymous
Anonymous

But his way would be cheaper and more in line with other countries considered far superior to us in their healthcare expenditures..

That’s what the issue is all about. It’s about who pays for it and (most importantly) how much, not the quality of care.

Stucky

Why are you posting as Anon??

If it’s all about who pays ….. then simply eliminate healthcare for EVERYONE, not just who dies based on some arbitrary number controlled by The Farmer.

Anonymous
Anonymous

We’re talking about healthcare insurance, not healthcare itself.

Everybody just pays their own way?

I’d be all for that but it won’t happen. Too many people like yourself that would prefer to have an insurance scheme of some kind pay unlimited amounts for unlimited services to anyone that demands them for that to work.

But maybe some limitation on what insurance covers, a maximum cap on lifetime expenditures, and then you pay your own way if you want more than that?

Stucky

I don’t read Anon posts. Hope you didn’t waste time responding.

Anonymous
Anonymous

And you keep promising not to respond to them, even though you can’t resist doing it.

Will you please start keeping your word?

hardscrabble farmer

It isn’t an arbitrary number, it’s the result of actuarial tables.

I presented a fair plan that doesn’t impose upon everyone for the mistakes of others and for decisions people make to try and do an end run around Nature.

hardscrabble farmer

I’m glad I’m not in charge either.

The question is one of cost sharing across the taxpaying spectrum for a finite resource without bankrupting every person in America and making all of our lives equally miserable.

Again, nothing prohibits you from spending as much as you want to prolong yours or anyone else’s life for as long as you think you can get them to live if that is what’s most important to you.

My concerns are about quality of life, not length. Humans have a lifespan and terminal failures are a part and parcel of end of life experience.

llpoh
llpoh

HSF – it should not be shared across the spectrum. It should be 100% a private matter. Care for yourself, or your family helps, or charity. But I do not believe that I should be forced to pay for someone else’s healthcare. I will take care of me and mine, and others need to take care of they and theirs.

hardscrabble farmer

We agree completely.

I didn’t advocate any kind of sharing or insurance plan, only a set of rules that would regulate cost of services and medical supplies.

Truth is I’m against that as well, but if they can tell a farmer what he can charge regardless of how much something costs to produce- like the price of milk- theoretically it ought to apply top bandaids and stitches.

I said that the question is one of sharing- I oppose that. The solution doesn’t require tweaking a bad idea, it requires ditching it altogether.

Anonymous
Anonymous

FWIW, I was in the hospital recently for a fairly common but serious surgical procedure to address an emergency life threatening condition.

I put in a DNR request and was given a wrist band to show that I had. If my heart stopped for any reason there would be no attempt of any kind made to resuscitate me and I would be left as dead even if it was probable I would be successfully revived to go on with my life.

How many of you, who advocate restricting treatment for some group or another, do the same?

Gayle
Gayle

Trying to reform the health care system is pointless until the corruption in the food and pharmaceuticals industries is stopped. When Big Medicine commits itself to illness prevention instead of symptom relief, the cost of health care will plummet. Of course, this will necessitate the reduction of profits to many players, and therein lies the rub.

If people just had to pay for their own health care, all the variables like smoking, obesity, poor diet, etc. would be borne by the accountable individuals. Competition would eliminate the need for price-fixing and the bureaucracy needed to manage it.

Everyone should be able to buy a policy for catastrophic events, and parents of children under 18 should get a cost break for it.

I had a tonsillectomy in 1957. I still have the hospital bill for use of surgical services and an overnight stay and adjacent costs. Total? $50.
I imagine the doctor probably earned about the same.

MrLiberty
MrLiberty

If it requires force, a gun, a threat, etc. it CANNOT BE CONSIDERED A RIGHT!

rhs jr
rhs jr

We will have to become real; our good days are over. The Chinese have finally made their Yuan convertible into gold and they really do have gold stacked high in their “Fort Knox”. Suppose you have a tanker load of oil (fertilizer, TVs, canned beef etc) to sell and buyer #1 offers to pay in dollars which you have already been stacking to the ceiling (because producers don’t need/want more dollars, US securities are in a bubble, US Socialism demands more printing, and the US Economy is going down). Buyer 2 offers Yuan which you can spend anywhere now and people want them so they can buy and stack gold. A fifth grader can see the dollar is going to go down and the Yuan up; oil, fertilizer, TVs, canned goods are going up in dollars and down in Yuan. China has maybe 1 trillion in gold; if it’s price doubled, China would have 2 trillion to use to redeem Yuan. China had been buying ETF paper gold which kept the physical gold price down while they vacuumed up the world’s physical gold; I expect they will demand physical gold shipments now and all Western gold will inflate and disappear; and even more trillions of fiat dollars will suddenly appear to settle Chinese accounts. The Profligate Socialist US Fiat Black Swan Dollar has landed; one giant step for US Inflation; one Huge Costly Black Hole is going to open up for the US Working and Taxpaying Consumers.

DC Sunsets

80% of what passes for “medical services” today is either waste or outright harmful. This is what happens when an industry is subsidized.

The medical system is essentially a monopolistic cartel. Anyone who thinks it can be reformed is too stupid for proper description.

It will crash and burn.

If you ever want to know who’s robbing you blind, look at the buildings they erect.
Banks
Insurance companies
Pharmaceutical and Medical Device firms
Defense industry
HOSPITALS.

Every one of them now builds elaborate castles, Taj Mahals across the board.
When Pharaoh builds these pyramids, you know you’re a slave.

llpoh
llpoh

In OZ you can get an MRI, for instance, at a private clinic, done and evaluated by a radiologist for around $250 US. No govt subsidy. What is it in the US? $1200 or so.

There is no fixing the system until that bullshit is addressed. No amount of universal Medicare wil overcome that. If you try to provide universal healthcare without fixing that issue, the country wil collapse and go entirely broke (it is already, of course).

DC Sunsets

I concur.
Subsidies simply create vast waste. We’ve had since 1964 (Medicare) for that.

I read somewhere that medical services now subsume 60% of all consumer spending. Imagine if, instead of medical services, it was swimming pools……

Fun imagination games.

rhs jr
rhs jr

The problem is that each productive working patient with insurance that uses a hospital etc must pay for (subsidize) four Welfare Maggots that were uninsured.

BUCKHED
BUCKHED

LLPOH…in Charleston I can get an MRI read by a board certified Radiologist for $380.00 . The last one I had was $1,100.00 . Competition is what is bringing down the prices .

Competition is the only way to reform both prices and services .

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