Clinton, Assange, And The War On Truth

Authored by John Pilger via Counterpunch.org,

On 16 October, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation aired an interview with Hillary Clinton: one of many to promote her score-settling book about why she was not elected President of the United States.

Wading through the Clinton book, What Happened, is an unpleasant experience, like a stomach upset. Smears and tears. Threats and enemies. “They” (voters) were brainwashed and herded against her by the odious Donald Trump in cahoots with sinister Slavs sent from the great darkness known as Russia, assisted by an Australian “nihilist”, Julian Assange.

In The New York Times, there was a striking photograph of a female reporter consoling Clinton, having just interviewed her. The lost leader was, above all, “absolutely a feminist”. The thousands of women’s lives this “feminist” destroyed while in government – Libya, Syria, Honduras – were of no interest.

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In New York magazine, Rebecca Traister wrote that Clinton was finally “expressing some righteous anger”. It was even hard for her to smile: “so hard that the muscles in her face ache”. Surely, she concluded, “if we allowed women’s resentments the same bearing we allow men’s grudges, America would be forced to reckon with the fact that all these angry women might just have a point”.

Drivel such as this, trivialising women’s struggles, marks the media hagiographies of Hillary Clinton. Her political extremism and warmongering are of no consequence. Her problem, wrote Traister, was a “damaging infatuation with the email story”. The truth, in other words.

The leaked emails of Clinton’s campaign manager, John Podesta, revealed a direct connection between Clinton and the foundation and funding of organised jihadism in the Middle East and Islamic State (IS). The ultimate source of most Islamic terrorism, Saudi Arabia, was central to her career.

One email, in 2014, sent by Clinton to Podesta soon after she stepped down as US Secretary of State, discloses that Islamic State is funded by the governments of Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Clinton accepted huge donations from both governments for the Clinton Foundation.

As Secretary of State, she approved the world’s biggest ever arms sale to her benefactors in Saudi Arabia, worth more than $80 billion. Thanks to her, US arms sales to the world – for use in stricken countries like Yemen – doubled.

This was revealed by WikiLeaks and published by The New York Times. No one doubts the emails are authentic. The subsequent campaign to smear WikiLeaks and its editor-in-chief, Julian Assange, as “agents of Russia”, has grown into a spectacular fantasy known as “Russiagate”. The “plot” is said to have been signed off by Vladimir Putin himself.  There is not a shred of evidence.

The ABC Australia interview with Clinton is an outstanding example of smear and censorship by omission. I would say it is a model.

“No one,” the interviewer, Sarah Ferguson, says to Clinton, “could fail to be moved by the pain on your face at that moment [of the inauguration of Trump] … Do you remember how visceral it was for you?”

Having established Clinton’s visceral suffering, Ferguson asks about “Russia’s role”.

CLINTON: I think Russia affected the perceptions and views of millions of voters, we now know. I think that their intention coming from the very top with Putin was to hurt me and to help Trump.

 

FERGUSON: How much of that was a personal vendetta by Vladimir Putin against you?

 

CLINTON: … I mean he wants to destabilise democracy. He wants to undermine America, he wants to go after the Atlantic Alliance and we consider Australia kind of a … an extension of that …

The opposite is true. It is Western armies that are massing on Russia’s border for the first time since the Russian Revolution 100 years ago.

FERGUSON: How much damage did [Julian Assange] do personally to you?

 

CLINTON: Well, I had a lot of history with him because I was Secretary of State when ah WikiLeaks published a lot of very sensitive ah information from our State Department and our Defence Department.

What Clinton fails to say – and her interviewer fails to remind her — is that in 2010, WikiLeaks revealed that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had ordered a secret intelligence campaign targeted at the United Nations leadership, including the Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon and the permanent Security Council representatives from China, Russia, France and the UK.

A classified directive, signed by Clinton, was issued to US diplomats in July 2009, demanding forensic technical details about the communications systems used by top UN officials, including passwords and personal encryption keys used in private and commercial networks.

This was known as Cablegate. It was lawless spying.

CLINTON:  He [Assange] is very clearly a tool of Russian intelligence. And ah, he has done their bidding.

Clinton offered no evidence to back up this serious accusation, nor did Ferguson challenge her.

CLINTON: You don’t see damaging negative information coming out about the Kremlin on WikiLeaks. You didn’t see any of that published.

This was false. WikiLeaks has published a massive number of documents on Russia – more than 800,000, most of them critical, many of them used in books and as evidence in court cases.

CLINTON:  So I think Assange has become a kind of nihilistic opportunist who does the bidding of a dictator.

 

FERGUSON:  Lots of people, including in Australia, think that Assange is a martyr for free speech and freedom of information. How would you describe him? Well, you’ve just described him as a nihilist

 

CLINTON:  Yeah, well, and a tool. I mean he’s a tool of Russian intelligence. And if he’s such a, you know, martyr of free speech, why doesn’t WikiLeaks ever publish anything coming out of Russia?

Again, Ferguson said nothing to challenge this or correct her.

CLINTON: There was a concerted operation between WikiLeaks and Russia and most likely people in the United States to weaponise that information, to make up stories … to help Trump.

 

FERGUSON: Now, along with some of those outlandish stories, there was information that was revealed about the Clinton Foundation that at least in some of the voters’ minds seemed to associate you ….

 

CLINTON: Yeah, but it was false!

 

FERGUSON: … with the peddling of information …

 

CLINTON: It was false! It was totally false!  …..

 

FERGUSON: Do you understand how difficult it was for some voters to understand the amounts of money that the [Clinton] Foundation is raising, the confusion with the consultancy that was also raising money, getting gifts and travel and so on for Bill Clinton that even Chelsea had some issues with? …

 

CLINTON: Well you know, I’m sorry, Sarah, I mean I, I know the facts ….

The ABC interviewer lauded Clinton as “the icon of your generation”. She asked her nothing about the enormous sums she creamed off from Wall Street, such as the $675,000 she received for speaking at Goldman Sachs, one of the banks at the centre of the 2008 crash. Clinton’s greed deeply upset the kind of voters she abused as “deplorables”.

Clearly looking for a cheap headline in the Australian press, Ferguson asked her if Trump was “a clear and present danger to Australia” and got her predictable response.

This high-profile journalist made no mention of Clinton’s own “clear and present danger” to the people of Iran whom she once threatened to “obliterate totally”, and the 40,000 Libyans who died in the attack on Libya in 2011 that Clinton orchestrated. Flushed with excitement, the Secretary of State rejoiced at the gruesome murder of the Libyan leader, Colonel Gaddafi.

“Libya was Hillary Clinton’s war”, Julian Assange said in a filmed interview with me last year. “Barack Obama initially opposed it. Who was the person championing it?  Hillary Clinton.  That’s documented throughout her emails … there’s more than 1700 emails out of the 33,000 Hillary Clinton emails that we’ve published, just about Libya. It’s not that Libya has cheap oil. She perceived the removal of Gaddafi and the overthrow of the Libyan state — something that she would use in her run-up to the general election for President.

 

“So in late 2011 there is an internal document called the Libya Tick Tock  that was produced for Hillary Clinton, and it’s the chronological description of how she was the central figure in the destruction of the Libyan state, which resulted in around 40,000 deaths within Libya; jihadists moved in, ISIS moved in, leading to the European refugee and migrant crisis.

 

“Not only did you have people fleeing Libya, people fleeing Syria, the destabilisation of other African countries as a result of arms flows, but the Libyan state itself was no longer able to control the movement of people through it.”

This – not Clinton’s “visceral” pain in losing to Trump nor the rest of the self-serving scuttlebutt in her ABC interview  – was the story. Clinton shared responsibility for massively de-stabilising the Middle East, which led to the death, suffering and flight of thousands of women, men and children.

Ferguson raised not a word of it.  Clinton repeatedly defamed Assange, who was neither defended nor offered a right of reply on his own country’s state broadcaster.

In a tweet from London, Assange cited the ABC’s own Code of Practice, which states: “Where allegations are made about a person or organisation, make reasonable efforts in the circumstances to provide a fair opportunity to respond.”

Following the ABC broadcast, Ferguson’s  executive producer, Sally Neighbour, re-tweeted the following: “Assange is Putin’s bitch. We all know it!”

The slander, since deleted, was even used as a link to the ABC interview captioned ‘Assange is Putins (sic) b****. We all know it!’

In the years I have known Julian Assange, I have watched a vituperative personal campaign try to stop him and WikiLeaks. It has been a frontal assault on whistleblowing, on free speech and free journalism, all of which are now under sustained attack from governments and corporate internet controllers.

The first serious attacks on Assange came from the Guardian which, like a spurned lover, turned on its besieged former source, having hugely profited from WikiLeaks’ disclosures. With not a penny going to Assange or WikiLeaks, a Guardian book led to a lucrative Hollywood movie deal. Assange was portrayed as “callous” and a “damaged personality”.

It was as if a rampant jealousy could not accept that his remarkable achievements stood in marked contrast to that of his detractors in the “mainstream” media. It is like watching the guardians of the status quo, regardless of age, struggling to silence real dissent and prevent the emergence of the new and hopeful.

Today, Assange remains a political refugee from the war-making dark state of which Donald Trump is a caricature and Hillary Clinton the embodiment. His resilience and courage are astonishing. Unlike him, his tormentors are cowards.

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MMinLamesa
MMinLamesa

I still read comments at sites like CommonDreams telling me how fucking crazy I am to believe that Hillary EVER did ANYTHING wrong/illegal. It’s all been pulled out of a hat to give us President Trump.

Her latest bullshit won’t change one mind. Either way.

My only question is WTF happened to “lock her up” because I see a few months ago that Sessions has decided MS-13 is a greater threat then billions flowing into a foundation run by the Secretary of State.

yeah

prusmc
prusmc

Not locking her up was Trump’s first poor choice. He will regret it when she runs against Mike Pense in 2020 and then locks Trump up.

Anonymous
Anonymous

For Leftists, terms like “wrong” and “illegal” aren’t determined by the law.

They are determined by the end result that was intended, as long as it is a Leftist goal it is acceptable and right.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem

Totalitarianism 101

Eugene V. Debs
Eugene V. Debs

Prior to Wikileaks there were a few fringe and alternative media sites, some still going. What has happened is the polarisation of these to specific agendas of anti-globalization, pro-right wing, pro-left wing etc etc… The shame is the early discussions have gone, those who read across the political spectrum are shouted down by the confirmation bias of the majority ideology of the host site. The ability of broadening perspectives and understanding is loosing out to “it’s all the fault of -my named prejudice opponents – ” rather than seeking to understand the WHY the opponent would take that view, and reason through the motivations that have caused us to arrive to the present position. Social Media has a part in this – the need to reply in 2mins before the feed moves on to the next issue. Ad Hominim attacks can achieve likes/upvotes but are pathetic at resolving or even understanding or highlighting the architects their influence or objectives. A higher standard of moderation or ranking of commenters seems to show one way forward?

As for The Guardian – post their revelation interviews with Snowden (and Assange), I can only imaging how their mainstream client base (and advertisers / Govt. interviewees etc) landscape shifted. A change in Editors and ownership also occurred, so unfortunately it was likely necessary for a commercial multination operation to signal that they were onside with the Nation State and its perspectives or fail in the commercial marketplace. Understandably Glenn Greenwald Laura Poitras and other investigative Journalists/Film makers had enough of such oversight and went their own ways to sites like TheIntercept / FieldOfVision and others. Unfortunately the larger media is increasingly more controlled and the smaller independents have tiny audiences. Delusions will increase and power will achieve more control – until perhaps like Spain – is exposed for the lie that it seeks to maintain. In short we should all be kneeling when our flags come out, I don’t know of a significant Nation that promotes a truthful agenda.

Truther
Truther

Hey Hitlery! So, you still believe the Ruskies hacked our election huh…..well I have a quote fer ya lil’ lady, ‘what, at this point, does it matter.’ ? You may recall you said that about dead Americans you killed in Benghazi…….remember bitch.

The Modern Chronicler
The Modern Chronicler

I read the entire thing this morning – a valuable reminder in “compact” form of several things she did. Most importantly the fact that Julian Assange has also released documents on Russia, proving he is no tool of Vladimir Putin.

I remembered, as I read this piece, telling people who called Donald Trump sexist that Hillary Clinton’s ME policy got thousands of nonwhites, many women, killed/raped/maimed/orphaned/homeless.

In response, what I got was…

NOT.ONE.SINGLE.DAMN.EXPRESSION.OF.DISAPPROVAL.DISGUST.HORROR.

Liberals, leftists, progressives: hypocrites, the lot of them. Their hypocrisy was a reason Trump won in 2016 and why he’s got great chances to win it in 2020.

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product

modern…………same experience

unit472/
unit472/

The Rodhamster’s involvement in the middle east and Clinton Foundation scams were just the latest crimes that stretched back over 30 years to her days as the ‘First Lady’ of Arkansas.

By the time she began her presidential campaigns she had cemented her reputation as an unlikeable, dishonest and greedy woman. Unelectable in any but the bluest precincts in America.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem

I have stated it many times previously – the factual record proves beyond doubt that she is a murderous psychopath.

TC
TC

I have regular lunch with a group of true liberals, and it’s quite enlightening. After years of study, the key distinguishing characteristic of a modern liberal is the ability to ignore their own cognitive dissonance.

BamBam
BamBam

I was actually just thinking about a liberal I know today. Vegetarian, likes to talk about how we could feed the world if we all gave up meat and that we need to do more forafrica. Yet later he’ll talk about there are too many humans and we’re destroying nature. God, you hit the nail on the head with him without ever meeting him.

Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

A great deal above is true, and Hillary Clinton specifically, and feminism, generally, are tools used by dark forces (liberals, muslims, communists, progressives, the devil) to destroy freedom and humanity. Hillary Clinton has no soul.

However, the following line is intended at misdirection:
>>>”The opposite is true. It is Western armies that are massing on Russia’s border for the first time since the Russian Revolution 100 years ago.”<<<
This in reference to Hillary indicating that Putin wants to destabilize western democracy. Indeed, even pathological liars sometimes utter the truth when it serves them better than the lie.

Russia IS trying to destabilize western democracy, or more specifically, turn our system against us. Remember, Russia STILL holds Eastern Europe hostage by limiting fuel oil and natural gas when they don't behave themselves, and attempt to assert their own God-given right to freedom. Russia is to be admired in many ways, as is Putin, but not because he is a beacon of freedom, but because he is a ruthless killer and has amassed great wealth by being such. He is a skilled predator and not to be underestimated.

There is no way to justify in any conversation the sale of 20% of United States Uranium Ore to an adversarial state. Just because we are not at war with them RIGHT NOW, does not mean that they aren't trying to undermine us. DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA. They are not the good guys, and we can have conversations with them, but they are a force to be reckoned with. Maintaining our own strength, and living up to the agreements we have (something Obama repeatedly failed to do) with Eastern European SOVEREIGN countries (sorry about the CAPS, cannot find the italics key) does not constitute aggression on our behalf. Selling them weapon-capable material, and allowing internal forces attempting to destroy our republic to profit from the sale, smacks of treason, and needs to be addressed in the harshest possible terms. The Russian government is not our friend, any more than our own imperial federal government, and can be trusted even less.

We certainly aren't without great faults, and our republic is truly on the edge of failure. But I'd STILL rather die here attempting to be free than live there knowing that there is no chance of it.

Eugene V. Debs
Eugene V. Debs

If one tracks the history and actions of the Clintons one is faced with some dark realities of what these people have represented and how they’ve acted along with a total absence of morality. I was relieved that Hillary lost the vote. I felt the world was a safer place with her out of politics/ spheres of influence.
The disappointment has been how far and how deep the Beltway Hazing of politics goes. One can only conclude that Trump has been hazed/ threatened /cornered/blackmailed into inaction against key DC influencers. When its openly known the criminal perversions of politicians and lobbyists yet no action is taken – the reality is there is no residual structure of democracy – just a souvenir handbook.

TampaRed-
TampaRed-

darn,the world is getting crazier and crazier–
i never thought i’d see the day that i agreed with eugene debs–

Iska Waran
Iska Waran

Is there some international law that requires Russia to sell oil & gas to Eastern Europe?

Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

Iska: Of course not, nor should there be. And Eastern Europe is partly guilty by allowing themselves to become dependent on a state that has a long history of this. The Russians use their supply as a weapon against Eastern Europe, and to a lesser degree, Europe in general.

Anyone who gets in the way of Russia attempting to re-integrate Eastern Europe into it’s empire gets starved out or frozen out. This is not dissimilar to Holodomor in 1932-1933 when Stalin committed genocide in Ukraine by starving out upwards of 10 million. They have a continuing history of starving their neighbors deliberately, and this particular event was likely caused by the state-seizure of farms.

Is the US guilty of atrocities? Yes. That is not debatable. But I don’t have any knowledge of the United States starving millions of our neighbors because they won’t subjugate themselves to our rule. I’m not defending what the USA!USA!USA! has done. I’m simply pointing out that RUSSIA!RUSSIA!RUSSIA! under the rule of Vladimir Putin is demonstrably worse, and we should NOT be delivering the materials of our own potential destruction to a nation-state that supports islamic countries that have vowed “Death To America”.

Stucky

“Russia IS trying to destabilize western democracy, or more specifically, turn our system against us. ”

And the USA!USA!USA! does exactly the same to Russia, AND other countries around the world.

ALL countries act in their own self interests. It is ridiculous to single out just one.

——–

“Remember, Russia STILL holds Eastern Europe hostage by limiting fuel oil and natural gas when they don’t behave themselves, and attempt to assert their own God-given right to freedom.”

How many countries does the USA!USA!USA! hold hostage via sanctions Upon how many countries do we inflict with our God given version of democracy?

———

“DO NOT TRUST RUSSIA. They are not the good guys, ….”

And that line of neocon-ish thinking will insure perpetual conflict. Why aren’t they good guys? Because they oppose American hegemony? In that case there are precious few good guys in this world.

———–

‘But I’d STILL rather die here attempting to be free than live there knowing that there is no chance of it.”

You really think you’re free?? How quaint.

Russians have no freedom? How 1980-ish. I suppose you think there are Russian soldiers at every church and news-source just waiting to send citizens to Siberia.

The Russia-phobe burns strong in you.

Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

“ALL countries act in their own self interests. It is ridiculous to single out just one.”

I’m not singling out just one. There are actually several. However, I’m not a citizen of Russia, I’m still a citizen [subject] of the United States. I have no intention of placing a nation that has a long history of genocide (remember, if we don’t learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it) on the pedestal that some here have implied it belongs on. If I’m misreading that, let me know.

“How many countries does the USA!USA!USA! hold hostage via sanctions Upon how many countries do we inflict with our God given version of democracy?”

Sanctions? Five. Iran, North Korea, Syria, Sudan and Cuba. Democracy? Well, even one is too many… no argument there.

“And that line of neocon-ish thinking will insure perpetual conflict. Why aren’t they good guys? Because they oppose American hegemony? In that case there are precious few good guys in this world.”

They aren’t the good guys because they have NEVER been the good guys. It’s all fine and good for us to remind ourselves that if we don’t learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. Well, so are they. I’ll put the human rights record of the United States, despite all her faults, above Russia. If you want to debate that, bring it on.

“You really think you’re free?? How quaint.”

Re-read my statement. I never said that. I specifically said, and you conveniently re-posted “attempting to be free”.

“Russians have no freedom? How 1980-ish. I suppose you think there are Russian soldiers at every church and news-source just waiting to send citizens to Siberia.”

Really? Did you just say that? Russian citizens has been persecuted for sharing their faith for a hundred years! They still are – in 2016 Putin signed a law prohibiting citizens from sharing their faith with others WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT PERMIT, with fines upward of $1000 for individuals and $15,000 for organizations.Okay, so not Siberia, so I suppose it’s fine with you.

No, they assassinate journalists they disagree with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

“The Russia-phobe burns strong in you.”

Yeah, it does. You are absolutely fucking correct about that one.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem

You’re correct – you’re definitely a “subject” of the Deep State.

Stucky

“I have no intention of placing a nation that has a long history of genocide … on the pedestal”

I guess the genocide of American Indians doesn’t count.

Russian genocides started in 1917, and ended when Communist Russia died. Yes, it was brutal. Which many genocides in human history haven’t been? Interesting thing … here on TBP there are those who blame Communism on Bolsheviks …. JOOS … so, the Russian people themselves suffered cuz da Joos …. but, then you want to blame Russia, not Joos, for being eeeevul. You want it both ways.

You totally, absolutely discount the notion that Russia today is NOT the same as the Soviet Union. You, and all Russiaphobes have but one song “Russia ALWAYS evil, so STFU”.

============

“They aren’t the good guys because they have NEVER been the good guys.”

Neocon maroon. “Never”, huh? Why don’t you regale us with your awesome knowledge of Russian history. The general date for the beginning of Russian history is 842 AD. Start from there.

===========

“I’ll put the human rights record of the United States, despite all her faults, above Russia.”

Ok, sure. Russia abolished slavery in 1723. Your turn. When did the USA abolish slavery? Start with that.

After that we’ll jump to police brutality in the USA!USA!USA! vs police brutality in Russia. That will be fun.

==============

“Re-read my statement. I never said that. I specifically said, and you conveniently re-posted “attempting to be free”.”

Great. So, you admit you are NOT free, just attempting it. Well, since the Russians are also not free (so you say), what make your not-free-ness better than their not-free-ness?

=============

” … in 2016 Putin signed a law prohibiting citizens from sharing their faith with others WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT PERMIT, with fines upward of $1000 for individuals and $15,000 for organizations.”

In the USA!USA!USA! kids can’t fucking sell lemonade with violating the law.

I don’t think that law was a good idea. I never said Russia and/or Putin were perfect. Far from it. I will say more about this law in a separate post … just for you.

================

“Yeah, it does. You are absolutely fucking correct about that one.”

I wouldn’t be proud of that.

1. pho·bi·a, fōbēə/ — noun — an irrational fear of something. That’s not something to be proud of.

2. It pretty much invalidates everything you have to say about Russia … unless you are preaching to the choir, to folks like EC. Why should anyone take you seriously when you made it clear you have an irrational fear of the subject matter? How can you be subjective and/or honest? I don’t think you can. You have an ax to grind.

TampaRed-
Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

Hey guys… we have 40,000 more Hillary Clinton emails to review for DOJ. I need volunteers.

Hello?

Anybody?

We’ll protect you…

Where’s everybody going?

TampaRed-
TampaRed-
TC
TC

Yeah, right. Adding the Pedesta (sic) boys so he can unilaterally exonerate them of all wrong doing.

CCRider
CCRider

Pilger, along with soulmates Glenn Greenwald and Chris Hedges are leftists with great integrity who take on the pseudo-leftist phonies in politics with no less vigor than the phonies on the right. Like in this piece, they skewer dumbocrats for being the flip side of the corporate duopoly snakes they are. All 3 journalists, although committed socialists, are still TBP soulmates against the corporate warfare state and deserve a hearing on this site. Like those of us free market people who have a deep hatred for the wholly owned repocrats who hide behind the free enterprise fig leaf they have a similarly focused hatred for their lefty counterpart charlatans. Once we all vanquish the Plague on the Potomac we can, hopefully, peacefully part company and they can go create their own socialist paradise. Until then we need their voices.

Stucky

” … in 2016 Putin signed a law prohibiting citizens from sharing their faith with others WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT PERMIT”

1. Passing a law, and IMPLEMENTING it are two different things. There are a few thousand h0use churches in the Moscow area alone. Very very very few have been arrested, even fewer fined. Of course, when it happens, the westerm media whores blow it up waaay out of proportion.

2. The greater Russian population seems to have no problem with it whatsoever. Why should we?

3. The law will mostly affect evangelizing / proselytizing churches. Especially hard hit are Jehovah’s Witnesses, Baptists, and mooslims. In fact, some think parts of the law were geared specifically towards those groups. Why? See #4.

4. Those religious groups in Russia have a history of not respecting the public interest or national laws … they set their own opinions and activities above the secular laws … especially the JWs and mooslims who often do whatever the fuck they want .. ERR, what they think God tells them to do. Russians aren’t as highly individualistic as Americans … so, they find such behavior irresponsible and shouldn’t be tolerated. That’s why the general population supported the law.

5. The new law was NOT specifically drafted because of religion. It was part of an anti-terrorism law. The new law was drafted in Russia after the Islamic bombing of a Russian jet in Egypt.

Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

First of all, this is going to ramble on and is definitely not even worth reading, as it was certainly not worth writing, and it won’t change anyone’s mind, and it just plain stupid to even post this, but I’ve already written it, so, here goes.

I’ve learned a lot today.
Stucky is very well educated, and makes some good points. He also sometimes acts like a spelling nazi (except, let’s say a definition nazi, you know, phobia, which I acknowledge means irrational fear, although when I said it, I was thinking simple, respectful fear. So, point taken, I erred, fine.)

I also indicated that Russia has ALWAYS been the bad guy, so once again, I misspoke. In my mind we were talking about recent history (seeing as how I was so ’80s in my thinking), I dared to say always, rather than just the last 120 years or so.

Stucky CLEARLY knows his version of Russian history. I know less, and perhaps I am wrong, and Putin is NOT the tyrant that I believe he is, and that Russia (let’s say the Russian Oligarchs, similar to the American Oligarchs, since I have absolutely nothing against either Russian citizens or American citizens as a collective, or the Jews, either, since you brought that up). Russia good, America bad. I get it.

You ask how can I be subjective and/or honest? My turn to be a definition nazi… I think you meant to say “objective”. I also am honest, and I will be the first person to admit when I am wrong or have misunderstood something. Unlike some people, I ain’t perfect. You also called me a neocon maroon. That brought a smile to my face.

Let’s digress and talk about genocide, just for a moment. Stalin killed approximately 18 million people (not the 60 million that the propagandists say), while the tragic genocide of American Indians, was, how many? (BTW, how DO you get the text to show up bold?) Were some murdered, the way Stalin murdered? Yes. But how many died of diseases, which was an unfortunate byproduct of settlement but not murder? Millions, to be sure, but the North American continent did not even have anywhere near 18 million people. Oh, but Russia ended slavery in 1723, and it didn’t end until 1865 in this country.

>>>“I’ll put the human rights record of the United States, despite all her faults, above Russia.”

Ok, sure. Russia abolished slavery in 1723. Your turn. When did the USA abolish slavery? Start with that.

After that we’ll jump to police brutality in the USA!USA!USA! vs police brutality in Russia. That will be fun.<<<

Okay, let's retrace… the American Indian "genocide" happened primarily before America was a country (you know, starting in the late 1400's), and Stalin killed 18 million people, when was that again? Oh yeah, 1933. But my thinking is so '80s.

Police brutality? Not even comparable. Russia is the model for Stasi police brutality. Today. Now. Sure, there is PLENTY of evidence of police brutality in this country. But I submit it is far worse in Putin's Russia.

Another interesting thing I learned today, that I did not know, is that TBP has LOTS AND LOTS of ads for meeting Russian women. How could I not know this? Well, I employ any number of ad blockers, cookie blockers, and other things to prevent websites from spying on me, which TPB clearly does, since is even asks to read my desktop canvas, or some shit like that, which I promptly deny, and most of those juicy tidbits never make it to my screen. Wow, was I surprised.

So, a picture is forming now in my uneducated and clearly brainwashed USA!USA!USA! mind, where I suffer the ignominy of thinking that I am a free person living in a free country (except that I never said that).

You are plainly a Russia supporter (again, read Russian government) (this is my perception, not intended to be treated as an actual fact, since I have no idea if Stucky REALLY hates America as much as it sounds), you post articles praising Russia for saving the Union during their illegal and tyrannical war of Northern Aggression against the southern states that had had it with tyrants like Lincoln, once again, Russian women ads everywhere, and, hmmm, not a peep about my comment about the assassination of journalists in Russia.

So, I have quite logically come to the conclusion that Stucky is a Russian spy and disinformation specialist. I even have determined that his web ip originates just outside St. Petersburg… or is it Stalingrad, I forgot. Probably married to a gorgeous Russian woman, who whispers "Mne nravitsya kogda ti trogaesh menya tam" in his ear. I even have a photo of him having coffee with Snowden (tell him I said hi, and thanks for the NSA stuff… really opened my eyes to the benefits of TOR)

But I truly do appreciate the time you put into your writing, and the research, and I would never, eve suggest that I have not learned a great deal here. I'll admit when i;m wrong, and I'll even admit when I make shit up. I might even admit to not triple-checking all of my data, although I definitely try to double-check it.

So, gonna let this one go. Win goes to Stucky, I accept defeat.

Let the downvotes begin.

Stucky

It WAS worth reading. I also gave you a thumbs up for the effort … and, content. You seem like a pretty decent fellow, notwithstanding your Russia phobias.

A quick thought experiment. Imagine an alliance between the two most militarily powerful nations on earth, both with VAST natural resources, both with enormous intellectual firepower both in STEM and The Arts, ….. goddammit, that would be THE most powerful alliance in the history of humanity. Why can’t we get along, dammit?? (Oh, both are populated by mostly White People … not that that matters.) Imagine the good that can come from such an alliance. And, yes, the potential for bad shit exists also. But, that’s always the case with us hoomans.)

Yes, I meant “objective”. Goddamned grammar Nazi!

Yup, I do like Putin … but, I don’t know much about the rest of the Russian government. I also know Putin is a politician with great power, and that power corrupts, and that there are a great many things I don’t know about him. In short, I am NOT a Putin sycophant. Men with such power need to be watched closely, at all times.

My dad was born in Romania. I still have distant relatives in Russia. We had close Russian friends growing up. Wonderful people … smart, too. That might help explain why I have such high regard for the people of Russia.

NYET!! I am not a Russian spy!! Yet. Lol

I do NOT hate America!! I hate what ‘Murica has BECOME. Big difference.

Stalin was the most vile, evil cocksucker in human history. You win hands down on that.

Been nice chatting with you!

Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

I agree with everything you said above (except the part about not being a Russian spy… the jury is still out on that one). especially about what America has become. I don’t recognize it anymore.

BTW, glad to be here!

Stucky

A New Russian Law Against Protestants?

As the author found out, it is best to check for oneself than rely on Western press reports on Russia.

A new anti-terrorism law in Russia has been criticized in headlines in the Western media as tailored to target Christians, especially evangelicals and Pentecostals. Others denounce that it was tailored to ban evangelism. Some have labeled it as a “communist” law to persecute evangelicals and Pentecostals.

What are we supposed to know about this anti-terrorism law in Russia? I asked some questions to Alexey Komov, who is the international foreign affairs director of the Patriarchal Commission on family, protection of motherhood and childhood of the Russian Orthodox Church. He answered me:

Just wanted to give you my perspective on the set of the “anti-terrorism” amendments that became law in Russia recently. The main purpose was to amend several laws in a way allowing better anti-terrorism protection/prevention (that other countries including the US and EU already have). Now cell phone operators and internet providers will have to store data for some time and make it available if needed for an investigation, etc. The main and real threat is the activities of various radical Islamic missionaries who are rather active in Russia. We have around 9% of Muslim population that have been historically peaceful, but in the recent decades is being artificially radicalized by foreign radical sects like ISIS and other wahhabi/salafi sponsored imams (just today I’ve seen in the news that a radical imam who has publicly supported terrorism has been arrested in Moscow). Youth is particularly vulnerable and is the target.

New regulation of the missionary activities is just a minor part within the set of the new amendments to various laws. It basically says that foreign missionaries need to receive a permission/registration to do their work, and that they should preach only at their mosque/church/etc. But this concerns only official representatives of a religious organization.All normal people can freely express/preach/promote their religious and other beliefs with no limitations (which is a Constitutional right), and the law does not regulate that. The final law was seriously amended and many controversial things were deleted.

So the conclusion is that many negative reports on this topic in the Western mass media are:

1) Biased against Russia.

2) Use the draft of the bill, and not its final version.

3) Misinterpret actual text of the law.

I personally think that those amendments regarding the regulation of the missionary work could be softer, but even in the current form there is nothing really dramatic (I’ve read them). Plus the actual implementation and practice is now aimed at the radical Islamists. Of course there is also a prejudice against some innovative Western protestant groups and Eastern sects that have been calling for illegal actions, drugs, violence, preaching suicide or terrorism, etc. Plus many non-Orthodox religious groups have played an important role in anti-Russian coup d’etat in Ukraine. Also Russia has a centuries old tradition of over-regulating things.

So there are some worrying factors in this new law, but nothing really dramatic, as the press reports.

This is the view of Alexey Komov, the most prominent pro-life leader in Russia.

What are my thoughts?

The new law was drafted, and eventually enacted, in Russia after the Islamic bombing of a Russian jet in Egypt. It hits millions of Muslims in Russia, and affects also Christians of other persuasions (Catholics and evangelicals), who are not so numerous as Muslims are in Russia. Islam has about 10,000,000 members in Russia.

The Catholic Church has 140,000 members, thus about 0.1% of the total of the Russian population.

Jehovah’s Witnesses has 300,000 members, thus about 0.2% of the total.

Protestantism in its various denominations, both historical and Evangelical or Pentecostal, has also 300,000 members, thus about 0.2% of the total.

The Russian Orthodox Church has 58,800,000 members, thus 41% of the total.

So the two only major religions in Russia are the Orthodox Christian Church and Islam, and it is very obvious that the anti-terrorism law hits Islam head-on.

Differently from the U.S., where anti-terrorism laws increasingly stifle her major religions (especially evangelicalism) and grant more power to Islam and homosexual activism, and specially a massive secular State, Russia has been stifling homosexual activism and radical Islamic expansion and granting more power to its major Christian religion, the Orthodox Church.

The difference is while U.S. anti-terrorism laws protect an anti-Christian secular State, in Russia anti-terrorism laws protect the Orthodox Church. At least in Russia they are protecting its form of traditional Christianity.

My worry is that anti-Christian and anti-family laws and measures in the United States target not only U.S. citizens, but people around the world. In 2011, WND reported about Homeland Security surveillance on my blog, even though I am not an American citizen. Yes, DHS watches conservative blogs.

In 2013, Edward Snowden, a former CIA agent who has lambasted the Russian law,exposed to the world that the U.S. government was, contrary to the U.S. Constitution, spying on Americans and people around the world. “The (National Security Agency) NSA surveillance scandal is the biggest story of your lifetime,” said Michael Savage in a WND report.

It is very troubling that even without laws and measures allowing surveillance and spying on innocent Christians around the world, the U.S. government is engaged in this behavior in a global scale. If the Russian law is a threat because of the data store of its cell phone operators and internet providers, it is a threat only in Russia. But what about the massive surveillance and spying scandal of NSA? It is a threat hovering illegally not only over Americans, but also over multitudes of people around the world.

The new Russian law was not tailored to target specifically evangelicals and Pentecostals. It targets millions of Muslims. It can also affect other religions, including many U.S. sects as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormonism that are operating in Russia, but it will not affect the power and status of the Orthodox Church.

According to Charisma magazine, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, a government panel headed by Jesuit priest Thomas J. Reese, condemned the new law.

Charisma reported:

Religious organizations directly affected by the new laws are those with strong evangelization programs in Russia — the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon), International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists and other Protestant organizations with Baptist, Pentecostal and independent Christian roots.

“The Russian Orthodox church is part of a bulwark of Russian nationalism stirred up by Vladimir Putin,” David Aikman, author of “One Nation Without God,” told Christianity Today.

It is a pity that evangelicalism, which was a part of early American nationalism, is not longer essential for the U.S. government, which has discarded it.

Charisma also said, “Only about 1 percent of the Russian population is Protestant; the majority religion is Russian Orthodox Christian.”

Interestingly, Charisma showed no concern and made no mention that in a much larger scale the law hits millions of Muslims.

Even though evangelicals are a very tiny minority in Russia, the Orthodox Church has partnered with them in common missions. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and the Russian Orthodox Church will be hosting a summit in Moscow on persecution against Christians next October.

“I met with Patriarch Kirill, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, and evangelical leaders, and we discussed at length the persecution of the Church worldwide,” said Rev. Franklin Graham, the president of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. He added, “The World Summit in Defense of Persecuted Christians will shed a global spotlight on this crisis. We will bring delegates from around the world and will be able to join hands with people of other churches and denominations of the Christian faith to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ and to hear firsthand reports of the suffering that is taking place.”

“In the years under Communist rule, virtually all of the [orthodox] priests, pastors, and church leaders in Russia were imprisoned or executed by the Communists, and their graves are on the outskirts of Moscow and throughout the country serving as a reminder,” continued Graham.

“No church in modern history has suffered more than the church in Russia. … So Moscow will be a fitting and meaningful location for this much-needed summit.”

http://russia-insider.com/en/new-russian-law-against-protestant-evangelicals/ri15624

Hammer's Thor
Hammer's Thor

I upvoted that one simply because of the work you put into it. BTW, what does it mean when a website tries to extract html5 canvas image data?

CA
CA

Clinton fatigue, lock the lying whore up already!

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