Debunking Two American Myths

Authored by The Saker,

There are two myths which are deeply imprinted in the minds of most US Americans which are extremely dangerous and which can result in a war with Russia.

  • The first myth is the myth of the US military superiority.
  • The second myth is the myth about the US invulnerability.

I believe that it is therefore crucial to debunk these myths before they end up costing us millions of lives and untold suffering.

In my latest piece for the Unz Review I discussed the reasons why the US armed forces are nowhere nearly as advanced as the US propaganda machine would have us believe. And even though the article was a discussion of Russian military technologies I only gave one example, in passing, of Russian military technologies by comparing the T-50 PAKFA to the US F-35 (if you want to truly get a feel for the F-35 disaster, please read this and this). First, I am generally reluctant to focus on weapons systems because I strongly believe that, in the vast majority of real-world wars, tactics are far more important than technologies. Second, Andrei Martyanov, an expert on Russian military issues and naval warfare, has recently written two excellent pieces on Russian military technologies (see here and here) which gave many more examples (check out Martyanov’s blog). Having read some of the comments posted under Martyanov’s and my articles, I think that it is important, crucial, in fact, to drive home the message to those who still are thoroughly trained by the propaganda machine to instantly dismiss any notion of US vulnerability or, even more so, technological inferiority. I am under no illusion about the capability of those who still watch the idiot box to be woken out of their lethargic stupor by the warnings of Paul Craig Roberts, William Engdal, Dmitrii Orlov, Andrei Martyanov or myself. But I also think that we have to keep trying, because the war party (the Neocon Uniparty) is apparently trying really hard to trigger a conflict with Russia. So what I propose to do today is to connect the notions of “war with Russia” and “immediate and personal suffering” by showing that if Russia is attacked two of the most sacred symbols of the USA, aircraft carriers and the US mainland itself, would be immediately attacked and destroyed.

-----------------------------------------------------
It is my sincere desire to provide readers of this site with the best unbiased information available, and a forum where it can be discussed openly, as our Founders intended. But it is not easy nor inexpensive to do so, especially when those who wish to prevent us from making the truth known, attack us without mercy on all fronts on a daily basis. So each time you visit the site, I would ask that you consider the value that you receive and have received from The Burning Platform and the community of which you are a vital part. I can't do it all alone, and I need your help and support to keep it alive. Please consider contributing an amount commensurate to the value that you receive from this site and community, or even by becoming a sustaining supporter through periodic contributions. [Burning Platform LLC - PO Box 1520 Kulpsville, PA 19443] or Paypal

-----------------------------------------------------
To donate via Stripe, click here.
-----------------------------------------------------
Use promo code ILMF2, and save up to 66% on all MyPillow purchases. (The Burning Platform benefits when you use this promo code.)

The aircraft carriers myth

I have to confess that even during the Cold War I always saw US aircraft carriers as sitting ducks which the Soviets would have rather easily destroyed. I formed that opinion on the basis of my study of Soviet anti-carrier tactics and on the basis of conversations with friends (fellow students) who actually served on US aircraft carriers.

I wish I had the time and space to go into a detailed description of what a Cold War era Soviet attack on a US aircraft carrier battle group would typically look like, but all I will say is that it would involved swarms of heavy air and sea launched missiles coming from different directions, some skimming the waves, others dropping down from very high altitude, all at tremendous speeds, combined with more underwater-launched missiles and even torpedoes. All of these missiles would be “intelligent” and networked with each other: they would be sharing sensor data, allocating targets (to avoid duplication), using countermeasures, receiving course corrections, etc. These missiles would be launched at standoff distances by supersonic bombers or by submerged submarines. The targeting would involve space-based satellites and advanced naval reconnaissance technologies. My USN friends were acutely aware of all this and they were laughing at their own official US propaganda (Reagan was in power then) which claimed that the USN would “bring the war to the Russians” by forward deploying carriers. In direct contrast, my friends all told me that the first thing the USN would do is immediately flush all the carriers away from the North Atlantic and into the much safer waters south of the so-called GUIK gap. So here is the ugly truth: carriers are designed to enforce the rule of the AngloZionist Empire on small and basically defenseless nations (like Saddam Hussein’s Iraq). Nobody in the USN, at least not in the late 1980s, seriously considered forward deploying aircraft carrier battlegroups near the Kola Peninsula to “bring the war to the Russians”. That was pure propaganda. The public did not know that, but USN personnel all knew the truth.

[Sidebar: if the topic of carrier survivability is of interest to you, please check out this Russian article translated by a member of our community which is a pretty typical example of how the Russian don’t believe for one second that US carriers are such hard targets to destroy]

What was true then is even more true today and I can’t imagine anybody at the Pentagon seriously making plans to attack Russia with carrier based aviation. But even if the USN has no intention of using its carriers against Russia, that does not mean that the Russians cannot actively seek out US carriers and destroy them, even very far from Russia. After all, even if they are completely outdated for a war between superpowers, carriers still represent fantastically expensive targets whose symbolic value remains immense. The truth is that US carriers are the most lucrative target any enemy could hope for: (relatively) small, (relatively) easy to destroy, distributed in many locations around the globe – US carriers are almost “pieces of the USA, only much closer”.

Introducing the Zircon 3M22 hypersonic missile

First, some basic data about this missile (from English and Russian Wikipedia):

  • Low level range: 135 to 270 nautical miles (155 to 311mi; 250 to 500km).
  • High level range: 400nmi (460mi; 740km) in a semi-ballistic trajectory.
  • Max range: 540nmi (620mi; 1,000km)
  • Max altitude: 40km (130’000 feet)
  • Average range is around 400km (250mi; 220nmi)/450 km.
  • Speed: Mach 5–Mach 6 (3,806–4,567mph; 6,125–7,350km/h; 1.7015–2.0417km/s).
  • Max speed: Mach 8 (6,090mph; 9,800km/h; 2.7223km/s) during a test.
  • Warhead: 300-400kg (high explosive or nuclear)
  • Shape: low-RCS with radar absorbing coating.
  • Cost per missile: 1-2 million dollars (depending on configuration)

All this is already very impressive, but here comes the single most important fact about this missile: it can be launched from pretty much *any* platform: cruisers, of course, but also frigates and even small corvettes. It can be launched by nuclear and diesel-electric attack submarines. It can also be launched from long range bombers (Tu-160), medium-range bombers (Tu-22m3), medium-range fighter-bomber/strike aircraft (SU-34) and even, according to some reports, from multi-role air superiority fighter (SU-35). Finally, this missile can also be shore-based. In fact, this missile can be launched from any platform capable of launching the now famous Kalibr cruise missile and that means that even a merchant marine or fishing ship could carry a container with the Zircon missile hidden inside. In plain English what this means is the following:

  1. Russia has a missile which cannot be stopped or spoofed by any of the current and foreseeable USN anti-missile weapons systems.
  2. This missile can be deployed *anywhere* in the world on *any* platform.

Let me repeat this again: pretty much any Russian ship and pretty much any Russian aircraft from now on will have the potential capability of sinking a US aircraft carrier. In the past, such capabilities were limited to specific ships (Slava class), submarines (Oscar class) or aircraft (Backfires). The Soviets had a large but limited supply of such platforms and they were limited on where they could deploy them. This era is now over. From now on a swarm of Zircon 3M22 could appear anywhere on the planet at any moment and with no warning time (5000 miles per hour incoming speed does not leave the target anything remotely comparable to even a short reaction time). In fact, the attack could be so rapid that it might not even leave the target the time needed to indicate that it is under attack.

None of the above is a big secret, by the way. Just place “zircon missile” in your favorite search engine and you will get a lot of hits (131’000 on Google; 190’000 on Bing). In fact, a lot of specialists have declared that the Zircon marks the end of the aircraft carrier as a platform of modern warfare. These claims are widely exaggerated. As I have written above, aircraft carriers are ideal tools to terrify, threaten, bully and otherwise attack small, defenseless countries. Even medium-sized countries would have a very hard time dealing with an attack coming from US aircraft carriers. So I personally think that as long as the world continues to use the US dollar and, therefore, as long as the US economy continues to reply on creating money out of thin air and spending it like there is no tomorrow, aircraft carriers still have a bright, if morally repulsive, future ahead of them. And, of course, the USN will not use carriers to threaten Russia. Again, the US press has been rather open about the carrier-killing potential of the Zircon, but what it rarely (never?) mentions are the political and strategic consequence from the deployment of the Zircon: from now on Russia will have an easy and very high value US target she can destroy anytime she wants. You can think of the US carrier fleet like 10 US hostages which the Russians can shoot at any time. And what is crucial is this: an attack on a US carrier would not be an attack on the US homeland, nor would it be a nuclear attack, but the psychological shock resulting from such an attack could well be comparable to a (limited) nuclear strike on the US homeland.

This, on one hand, will greatly inhibit the Russian willingness to strike at US carriers as this would expose Russia to very severe retaliatory measures (possibly including nuclear strikes). On the other hand, however, in terms of “escalation dominance” this state of affairs gives a major advantage to Russia as the US does not have any Russian targets with an actual and symbolic value similar to the one of a US carrier.

There is another aspect of this issue which is often ignored. Western analysts often speak of a Russian strategy of “deterrence by denial” and “Anti-Access Area Denial” (A2AD). Mostly this is the kind of language which gets you a promotion and a pay raise in US and NATO think tanks. Still, there is a grain of truth to the fact that advanced Russian missiles are now providing Russia with a very cheap way to threaten even fantastically expensive US assets. Worse, Russia is willing (eager, in fact) to export these (relatively cheap) missiles to other countries. I find it amusing to see how US politicians are in a state of constant hysteria about the risk of nuclear proliferation, but fail to realize that conventional anti-ship missiles are a formidable, and much more likely, threat. Sure, there are missile export limiting treaties, such as the MTCR, but they only apply to missile with a range of over 300km. With modern ballistic and cruise missiles becoming smaller, deadlier and easier to conceal and with ranges which are (relatively) easy to extend, treaties such as the MTCR are becoming increasingly outdated.

The bottom line is this: as long as deterrences holds, attacking US carriers makes no sense whatsoever for Russia; however, as soon as deterrence fails, attacking US carriers, anywhere on the planet, gives Russia an extremely flexible and powerful escalation dominance capability which the US cannot counter in kind.

Striking at the Holy of Holies – the US “homeland”

If you thought that discussing striking US carriers was bad, here we are going to enter full “Dr Strangelove” territory and discuss something which US Americans find absolutely unthinkable: attacks on the US homeland.

True, for the rest of mankind, any war by definition includes the very real possibility of attacks on your own towns, cities and people. But for US Americans who are used to mete out violence and death far away from their own peaceful towns and cities, the notion of a devastating strike against the US homeland is pretty much unthinkable. On 9/11 the loss of 3000 innocent people placed the vast majority of US Americans into a total state of shock which resulted in a massive over-reaction at all levels (which was, of course, exactly the purpose of this false flag operation by the US and Israeli deep states). Just as with carriers, the dangers of a US over-reaction should serve as a deterrent to any attacks on the US homeland. But, just as with the carriers, that is only true as long as deterrence holds. If the Russian territory becomes the object of a US attack this would clearly indicate that deterrence has failed and that the Russian armed forces should now switch from a deterrence mode to a war-fighting mode.

At this point, the US American over-reaction to begin attacked or taking casualties could, paradoxically, result in a last-minute wake-up call indicating to everybody that what will come next will be truly devastating.

Introducing the RS-28 Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM)

Though officially very little is know about the Sarmat and the Yu-71, the reality is that the Internet has been full of educated guesses which give us a pretty clear idea of what kind of systems we are dealing here.

You can think of the RS-28 Sarmat as a successor of the already formidable RS-36 Voevoda (SS-18 Satan in US classification) missile: it is a heavy, very powerful, intercontinental ballistic missile with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (warheads):

  • Weight: 100 tons
  • Payload: 10 tons
  • Warheads: 10 to 15
  • Hypersonic glide vehicles: 3-24 (that’s the Yu-71 we will discuss below)
  • Range: 10’000km
  • Guidance: Inertial , satellite, astrocelestial
  • Trajectory: FOBS-capable

That last line, about being FOBS-capable, is crucial as it means that, unlike most Soviet/Russian ICMBs, the Sarmat does not have to fly over the North Pole to strike at the United States. In fact, the Sarmat could fly over the South Pole or, for that matter, in any direction and still reach any target in the USA. Right there this capability is, by itself, is more than enough to defeat any current and foreseeable US anti-ballistic missile technology. But it gets better, or worse, depending on your perspective: the Sarmat’s reentry vehicles/warhards are capable of flying in low orbit, maneuver, and then suddenly plunge towards their targets. The only way to defeat such an attack would be to protect the USA by a 3600 coverage capable ABM system, something which the USA is decades away from deploying. And just to add to these already formidable characteristics, each Sarmat can carry up to 3-24 (depending on who you ask) Yu-71 hypersonic glide vehicles.

Introducing The Yu-71 (aka “Object 4202) hypersonic glide vehicle (HGV)

Yet again, this is hardly a topic not covered in the media and you can find numerous articles describing what a hypersonic glide vehicle is and how it can be used. (the best article I could find in English was by Global Security, it is entitled “Objekt 4202 / Yu-71 / Yu-74”).

Here is a summary of what we think we know about this HGV:

  • Max Speed: from Mach 5, according to Scott Ritter, to Mach 9, according to a quasi official Russian source, to Mach 15, acccording to Sputnik, to Mach 20 (that’s 7 kilometer per second, or 25’200kh/h, or 15’000mph), according to Global Security. Whatever the true speed, it will be fantastic and far, far beyond the kind of speeds current or foreseeable US anti-missile systems could hope to engage.
  • Hypermaneuverability: Russian sources describe the Yu-71 as “???????????????? ??????????” or “hypermaneuverable warhead”. What that exactly means in turns of sustained Gs does not really matter as this is not about air-to-air combat, but about the ability to perform sudden course changes making it close to impossible for anti-missile systems to calculate an engagement solution.
  • Warhead: nuclear and conventional/kinetic.

That last line is very interesting. What it means is that considering the speeds attained by the Yu-71 HGV it is not necessary to equip it with a conventional (high explosive) or nuclear warheard. The kinetic energy generated by its high speed is sufficient to create an explosion similar to what a large conventional or small nuclear warhead could generate.

Bringing it all together now

Did you notice the similarities between the Zircon missile and the Sarmat+Yu-71 combo?

In both cases we have:

  1. an attack which can come from any direction
  2. speed of attack and maneuver capabilities which make interception impossible
  3. the capability for Russia to destroy a very high value US target in a very short time

It is amazing to see that while US decision makers were talking about their Prompt Global Strike program, the Russians actually developed their own version of this capability, much faster than the USA and at a fraction of the cost.

These are all ideal ways to “bring the war home” and to encourage a country which enjoyed total impunity for its policies to being seriously thinking about the consequences of messing around with the wrong people.

To make things even more potentially dangerous for the USA, the very same geography which protected the USA for so long is now becoming a major vulnerability. Currently 39% of the US population lives in counties directly on the shoreline. In fact, the population density of coastal shoreline counties is over six times greater than the corresponding inland counties (source). In 2010 the US Census Bureau produced a fascinating report entitled “Coastline Population Trends in the United States: 1960 to 2008” which shows that the coastal counties provide an “intense concentration of economic and social activity”. In fact, a very large number of US cities, industrial centers and economic hugs are located near the USA coastline making them all *ideal* targets for Russian conventional cruise missile strikes which could be launched from very long distances (including over open water). And we are not talking about some future, hypothetical, cruise missile, we are talking about the very same Kalibr cruise missiles the Russians have been using against the Takfiris in Syria. Check out this very well made video which explains how Kalibr cruise missiles can be hidden pretty much anywhere and used with devastating effect on military and/or civilian targets:

The reality is that the US homeland is extremely vulnerable to any kind of attack. This is only in part due to recent Russian advances in military technology. For example, the “just on time” manufacturing or delivery practices which are aimed to minimize costs and inventory are, from a strategic/military point of view, extremely dangerous as it take very little disruption (for example in the distribution network) to create catastrophic consequences. Likewise, the high concentration of some industries in specific areas of the United States (oil in the Mexican Gulf) only serve to further weaken the ability of the United State to take any kind of punishment in case of war.

Most TV watching Americans will dismiss all of the above by saying that “anybody come mess with us and we will kick their ass” or something equally sophisticated. And there is some truth to that. But what this mindset also indicate is a complete mental inability to operate in a scenario when deterrence has failed and the “other guy” is coming for you. That mindset is the prerogative of civilians. Those tasked with the defense of their country simply cannot think that way and have to look beyond the “threshold of deterrence”. They will be the one asked to fix the bloody mess once the civilians screw-up. Georges Clemenceau reportedly once said that “War is too serious a matter to entrust to military men”. I believe that the exact opposite is true, that war is too serious a matter to entrust to civilians, especially the US Neocons (the vast majority of whom have never spent any time in uniform) and who always make it sound like the next war will be easy, safe and painless. Remember Ken Adleman and his famous Iraqi “cakewalk”? The very same kind of scum is in power today and they want us to believe that the next war will also be a cakewalk or that being on a high speed collision course with Russia is something the USA can afford and should therefore engage in. The combined effect of the myth of US military superiority with the myth about the US invulnerability result in a US American sense of detachment, or even impunity, which is not at all supported by fact. I just fervently hope that the people of the USA will not find out how mistaken they are the hard way.

In the meantime, the Russian Chief of General Staff, General Gerasimov, has announced that Russia had completed what he called a “non-nuclear deterrence system” based on the Iskander-M, Kalibr and X-101 missiles. According to General Gerasimov, the Russian armed forces now have enough high-precision weapon systems to strike at any target within a 4000km range. Furthermore, Gerasimov declared that the number of platforms capable of launching such missiles has increased twelve times while the number of high precision cruise missiles has increased by a factor 30. General Gerasimov also explained that the combined capabilities of the Kalibr cruise missile, the Bastion mobile coastal defense missile system and the S-400 air defense system made it possible for Russia to fully control the airspace and surface of the Baltic, Barents, Black and Mediterranean seas (talk about A2AD!). Gerasimov concluded his briefing by sayingthe development of high-precision weapons has made it possible to place the main burden of strategic deterrence from nuclear to non-nuclear forces”.

To fully evaluate the implications of what Gerasimov said please consider this: deterrence is, by definition, the action of discouraging an action or event through instilling doubt or fear of the consequences. So what Gerasimov is really saying is that Russia has enough conventional, non-nuclear, capabilities to inflict unacceptable consequences upon the USA. This is something absolutely new, a fundamental game changer. Most importantly, that is the official declaration by a senior Russian official that the USA does not have any technological superiority and that the USA is vulnerable to a devastating counter-attack, even a conventional one. In one short sentence General Gerasimov has put to rest the two most important myths of US geostrategic theory.

Keep in mind that, unlike their US counterparts, the Russians typically like to under-evaluate Russian military capabilities. You will find the Russia media bragging about how “totally awesome and best in the world” Russian weapons systems are, but military personnel in Russia still has a corporate culture of secrecy and under-reporting your real capabilities to the enemy. Furthermore, while junior officers can say pretty much anything they want, senior officers are held to very strict rules and they have to carefully weigh every word they say, especially acting officers. So when the Chief of Staff officially declares that Russia now has a conventional strategic deterrence capability – you can take that to the bank. It’s real.

Alas, the western media is still stuck in the “full idiot” mode we saw during the transit of the Russian aircraft carrier from the North Atlantic to the Mediterranean: on one hand, the Admiral Kuznetsov was presented as a rusty old bucket while on the other NATO forces constantly shadowed it as if it was about to strike London. Likewise, US politicians present Russia as a “gas station” while, at the same time, stating that this “gas station” has the capability to decide who lives in the White House. This kind of reporting is not only unhelpful but outright dangerous. One one hand the “the Russians are backward brutes” fosters an arrogant and cocky attitude. On the other hand, constantly speaking about fake Russian threats results in a very dangerous case of “cry wolf” in which all possible Russian threats (including very real ones) are dismissed as pure propaganda.

The reality is, of course, very different and simple in a binary way: Russia represents absolutely no threat to the United States or anybody else (including the three Baltic statelets). But if some western politician decides that he is smarter and stronger than Napoleon or Hitler and that he will finally bring the Russians to their knees, then he and his country will be destroyed. It is really that simple.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
38 Comments
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
November 11, 2017 8:17 am

I watch certain TV show; Dr. Pol is a favorite; another is a woman vet and she has a commercial showing her with a long sturdy stick poking a bear and she says “don’t poke a bear while it is sleeping”, which is good humor for the show.

Russian missile technology makes one wonder why our politicians are so keen on ‘poking the bear’. They can’t be that stupid; there has to be something else; something, something, Dark Side.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus

They are that stupid, as they prove every day. The current Joint Chiefs are also a pack of idiots…

starfcker
starfcker
November 11, 2017 8:21 am

Come on, dude. T-50 (Su-57) stacked up against our F-35.? Russia has 9 Su-57 prototypes. We have 230 operational F-35’s. And another 185 F-22’s.

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
  starfcker
November 11, 2017 9:04 am

Pentagon’s Independent Testing Office, 2016Report:
The Pentagon’s top testing office warns that the F-35 is in no way ready for combat since it is “not effective and not suitable across the required mission areas and against currently fielded threats.” (Emphasis added) As it stands now, the F-35 would need to run away from combat and have other planes come to its rescue, since it “will need support to locate and avoid modern threats, acquire targets, and engage formations of enemy fighter aircraft due to outstanding performance deficiencies and limited weapons carriage available (i.e., two bombs and two air-to-air missiles).” In several instances, the memo rated the F-35A less capable than the aircraft we already have. entagon’s Independent Testing

http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/weapons/2016/f-35-may-never-be-ready-for-combat.html

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  starfcker
November 11, 2017 10:59 am

/sarc, right?

Stucky
Stucky
  starfcker
November 11, 2017 12:15 pm

“We have 230 operational F-35’s. ”

True. Five of them can actually fly.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
  starfcker
November 11, 2017 3:24 pm

F-35 (and other systems like Littoral Combat Ships and Sea Shadow etc) was an intentional boondoggle to repay the MIC for the severe loss of revenue caused by defeating our only boogeyman………Communist Russia. There was quite a stretch of time where we had no real enemy to threaten us and consequently no need to spend hundreds of billions/trillions on defense. Our MIC suffered mightily as a result. Wink, wink, nod, nod!

They’ve now remedied the “no boogeyman” situation by decrying “TERRORISM” as the greatest threat to mankind and “our freedom”. The US will never again be without a boogeyman because “TERRORISM” will always be whatever they tell us it is. Now they can continually spend untold trillions and eventually “quadrillions” defending our “freedom” from “TERRORISM” whether that be rogue Girl Scouts or CIA created and controlled proxy military groups like Al Qaeda or ISIS. Yay!!!!

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
November 11, 2017 8:23 am

It could also be theater. I absolutely believe that the “Cold War” was the greatest hoax of all time, probably engineered at Yalta. Ditto the Space Race/Moon Shots/etc.

How would we ever know? They hide everything, lie about whatever else slips out and always, decade after decade amass more power, plunge us deeper in debt, and divide the remains to squabble among themselves while the same dynastic groups of elites rise further and further in the firmament. What evidence exists that this isn’t the truth because everything points to it.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
  hardscrabble farmer
November 11, 2017 9:22 am

Since the Cold War is historically recent, I’d still call religion the greatest hoax ever. Especially from a monetary and mind control perspective. AGW is now probably #3. The nuke myth is encompassed within the Cold War theme.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem
  hardscrabble farmer
November 11, 2017 11:46 am

WTF is it with you and the Moon Landings? Are you trying to prove that you’re completely wacko? I really don’t get it but I’m guessing you must have no scientific background whatsoever. Now that I think about it I’ve never seen a post or comment of yours that demonstrated any “scientific” knowledge or awareness. In this day and age that’s sad, but not at all unusual. I’ll just have to file you under “comic relief”.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  A. R. Wasem
November 11, 2017 3:47 pm

File me under any label you want, you imperious little prick.

[imgcomment image[/img]

Stucky
Stucky
  hardscrabble farmer
November 11, 2017 12:11 pm

Now the Cold War is also a hoax?

I suppose the Soviets were not attempting to install nukes on Cuban soil, even though we have lots of proofs, including pics taken by our military … because those pics are doctored, or anecdotal, or irrelevant, or just flat out no proof at all.

Please, stick to writing about farm life. You’re terrific at that.

DurangoDan
DurangoDan
  Stucky
November 11, 2017 12:28 pm

Even the North Korea vaudeville show works with most people. Fear is the only thing that keeps corrupt governments like the Swamp in business.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  Stucky
November 11, 2017 4:06 pm

Stucky, did you serve in the Armed Forces during the Cold War? I did. Cannon fodder, too. 82nd Airborne, Infantry.

You know what we trained for the entire time I was in? War against the Soviet Union. They told us that we had an expected lifespan of 18 hours and our only job was to try and gum up the advance of the 50 divisions of Soviet armor that was going to come pouring through the Fulda Gap. We trained and we studied and we memorized and we maneuvered month after month, year after year-BRDM’s BMP’s, T-62’s, T-72’s, ZSU 23-4’s, you name it we knew it. And you know why we knew all of this? Because the Pentagon told us and the National Security State told them and all of it at a cost of 8 trillion dollars.

And then you’ll never guess what happened.

The USSR fell in a matter of weeks. And guess what happened to all those armored divisions? There weren’t any. It was all either A) A fabrication or B) Our intelligence agencies were completely incompetent. Either way it still cost 8 trillion dollars.

And in the aftermath guess how many of those top dogs in the intelligence and military community were held responsible for their egregious incompetence/criminal malfeasance?

If you guessed none, you win!

And now, after all that time and money our own Secretary of State sells 20% of our enriched uranium to Russia, hand delivered by the Director of the FBI in a secret plane-side meeting. What’s up with that? And now we’re supposed to believe anything they say about threats from Russia?

I cannot tell you how amusing I find that, how many fucks I do not give if you think there’s something wrong with my ability to think logically, because you are a shining example of everything they depend upon to stay in power; unabashed, unapologetic gullibility.

I don’t believe liars. I dislike incompetent assholes, but their ignorance isn’t a crime. The theft from the American people of all those resources over all that time to hype something that wasn’t even real certainly qualifies. You want to cling to your beliefs, have at them. I don’t care what you or anyone else thinks, what kind of excuses you can come up with to justify it, what type of naivete is required to stay in the thrall of the most gargantuan criminal enterprise in the history of mankind, because your thoughts and beliefs are your concern, not mine. I have come to my conclusions based on my observations, my knowledge of history, my experiences and the reason God gave me to figure things out.

I’ll write about whatever floats my boat and you can read it or ignore it.

[imgcomment image[/img]

Stucky
Stucky
  hardscrabble farmer
November 11, 2017 4:48 pm

You gave me the middle finger AND used the word “fuck” ?? I must say …. I love it!!!

Let me respectfully ask:

1. My Cold War example had to do with nukes in Cuba. Please address that.

—-1A). JFK sure was convinced. Was he a liar in regards to this issue?

2. While your actual military experience is impressive an extensive, you were but a cog in the wheel (not meant as an insult.) Do you truly believe you’re qualified, by way of all the information needed, to know what the entire MIC knew and was doing?

3. Are you aware that there have been multiple close calls whereby nukes were a hairs breath from bring launched with the mistakes originating in both countries? Sounds Cold War-ish to me.

4. Completely optional. When convenient, can you make a list of hoaxes you believe? Just a list, no explanations. I’m hoping if I can prepare myself beforehand, I won’t be so fucken shocked when I see a new one from you.

Blessings upon you, and may your herds increase a hundredfold.

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
  Stucky
November 11, 2017 6:34 pm

Stucky, all we the sheople know about missiles in Cuba is that there were missile shaped objects there. They could have been empty for all we know. Never forget that Presidents are puppets and have puppet masters. It’s hard to know what JFK was convinced of and what motivated his actions. He probably was the last great president we had and clearly he wasn’t happy with things. As we know from previous presidents, the MIC was firmly entrenched by JFK’s tenure so I doubt we’ll every truly know what truly happened in Cuba or throughout the Cold War.

Knowing what we already know about so many govt actions is it really that hard to believe that the Cold War was not just a ginned up load of bullshit?

Stucky
Stucky
  IndenturedServant
November 11, 2017 7:21 pm

Sure. They could have been missile shaped objects. How could I/we ever know with 100% certainty?

But, weren’t we literally on the brink of launching our nukes … and would we launch nukes cuz we thought they were look-alike objects? Or, is even the nuke launch thingy a lie? It’s all pretty damned confusing.

Regarding your last paragraph, youre assuming the goverment BACK THEN was as corrupt as it is now. Projecting backwards. But, was it? Or, were those better times?

IndenturedServant
IndenturedServant
  Stucky
November 11, 2017 7:45 pm

Stucky, we only KNOW what our owners decided to tell us about the Cold War, Cuba and being on the brink. That’s one reason I’m becoming more open to the idea we might not have landed on the Moon. I never thought about it or realized it but from launch to splash down and even beyond, EVERY tidbit of info was controlled and disseminated by the govt only. All flight data, audio, video, images, astronaut accounts were controlled by the govt. I’m certainly not 100% convinced we didn’t go to the Moon but whether we did or not, there are some significant questions which seems to be unnecessarily unanswered.

Look at the Eisenhower speech. Even Wilson spoke about powerful men with influence IIRC back in 1913. It’s impossible to believe or even think that the influence of powerful and unseen men has not increased as time and technology have progressed.

I think they were better times back then in many ways. It takes time and planning to take over and control the world. It’s pretty easy to see how incremental change doesn’t trigger our feelers causing the sheople to revolt. Slow and steady is the way to go when implementing big, unpopular change.

Work-In-Progress
Work-In-Progress
  hardscrabble farmer
November 11, 2017 2:05 pm

Yet, you defend the use of non-compete agreements.

hardscrabble farmer
hardscrabble farmer
  Work-In-Progress
November 11, 2017 4:12 pm

It’s like Invasion of the Body Snatchers around here today.

THE USE OF A NON-COMPETE CONTRACT IS NOT SLAVERY.

How can you not understand that? If you don’t want to sign the contract, you are free to refrain. Ipso facto a free person is not a slave.

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
November 11, 2017 9:26 am

40 Billion of Waste – the first 200 F-35’s will be used for spare parts instead of upgrade to combat readiness.
HA, HA…what a F…ing joke on the taxpayer and anybody that thinks the F-35 is something more than payoff to Lockheed.

http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/weapons/2017/21-billion-worth-of-f-35-concurrency-orphans.html

unit472/
unit472/
November 11, 2017 9:51 am

This pro Russian propaganda is becoming tedious. Russia is not 10 feet tall. Its more of a midget wearing nuclear cowboy boots to appear tall. Unless we are to believe Russia will wage all out nuclear war over every eventuality we have to judge Russia’s military might not on what its weapon designers claim but on the operational performance of Russian weapon systems it has actually used in combat.

The Saker might also want to mention that the successor to the KGB had its HQ in Moscow burn down the other day or that Putin’s multi billion dollar ‘investment’ in Venezuela looks like a total loss. Putin’s ‘wins’ are retaking Crimea which is not recognized by any major nation and thus simply saddled him with 1.8 million people with no economy and Syria. Syria is not exactly a successful nation either with 1/3 of its population having fled and it leader reviled by many who remain. Assad is a puppet dependent on Russian and Iranian support. Rebuilding that society will cost more than Putin can afford yet he owns it now.

Back home the Russian economy is expected to grow by 1.5% after shrinking for 3 straight years and it wasn’t that big of an economy to begin with. Any western political leader with Putin’s record would be voted out of office. In short Russia’s bottom feeding foreign adventures bring no pay off and the country cannot afford the pretense of being a ‘superpower’.

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
  unit472/
November 11, 2017 10:36 am

Unfortunately, you have just tons of crap and too much to spend time on and dispute.
You should concentrate on the Great United States which hasn’t won one of its many wars since WW2. Think how Great that achievement, especially knowing that the opponents were 3rd worlders.
Think how Great we are to initiate Regime Change and kill millions – for what!!!

unit472/
unit472/

I would say that we ‘won’ the Korean war in that out ally, South Korea, has an economy bigger than Russia’s. That is the real definition of victory. Conquering territory isn’t allowed any more and subjugating nations is much less productive than turning them into prosperous and powerful allies.

By this measure the United States is perhaps the most successful nation in history as it counts as it allies Japan, Germany , The UK and France the third, fourth, fifth and sixth largest economies on the planet. Russia has Belarus and Venezuela. China has a few Third World stooges on its payroll but no strategic allies.

pyrrhus
pyrrhus
  unit472/
November 11, 2017 11:01 am

You are dumb. Our women/gay/trannie infested conventional forces, with our sitting duck navy, would have no chance against even Russian conventional forces if we fought anywhere near their territory.

Stucky
Stucky
  unit472/
November 11, 2017 12:02 pm

“This pro Russian propaganda is becoming tedious. Russia is not 10 feet tall.”

And neither is the USA!USA!USA! ….. which is the POINT of the article.

I don’t have 2 hours to refute the rest of your seriously flawed comments. Except to say, you don’t have a clue.

KeyserSusie
KeyserSusie
November 11, 2017 10:37 am

Excellent post imo. I posted this link a week ago or so and it was down voted a bunch. I was surprised it received no up votes given the rants and screeds about the MIC here on TBP. I just find that curious and I am mildly surprised that a DOD- Breaking Defense source would allow such a post. I am a veteran – Captain USAF DC Security Service and feel I am an unbridled patriot. JSYK.

https://breakingdefense.com/2017/11/stop-the-malignant-misuse-of-americas-military/?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=58264105&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8PRRrJGTCGLWAPYuK2EWp4hm8CnJ12zAiEBorUIRyxLKMFkqDfXEreU_y7Jc6iI0m8N9bDgMQ22UJRQSvIVrc2NDdWjQ&_hsmi=58264105

I will add that my father flew the last of the B-36 Peacemakers in 1958 against the rest of the SAC fleet’s B-52’s in the annual Bombing and Navigation Competition – Top Gun for bombers. His plane with his eponymous Razzie’s Raider moniker took first place. That is ancient history. I agree with Saker to a large degree about today’s future history.

Mythically I fly the slow, prop driven Peacemaker.

“The B-36 took shape as an aircraft of immense proportions. It was two-thirds longer than the previous “superbomber”, the B-29. The wingspan and tail height of the B-36 exceeded those of the 1960s Soviet Union’s Antonov An-22 Antheus military transport, the largest ever propeller-driven aircraft put into production.[2] Only with the advent of the Boeing 747 and the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy, both designed two decades later, did American aircraft capable of lifting a heavier payload become commonplace.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36_Peacemaker

My father dropped his load and my mother delivered me in Ft. Worth, home to me and the B36. I was born in Texas at Harris Memorial Hospital. I was her third child and the first to be born in a hospital. It snowed that cold February day and as my father was in the elevator with the delivering physician, the good doctor told (jokingly) the first lieutenant not to worry as he had sewed up that baby hole good and proper.

Peace be with us all

Anonymous
Anonymous
November 11, 2017 11:08 am

Russia has made some impressive advances, but in an all out non nuclear war they still aren’t our equal or very close to it. Most of their highest tech stuff is in limited numbers that could only present a limited defense or attack capability against us (I’m sure that will change, but we will be changing accordingly at the same time).

In a nuclear war, the only advantage of any value would be being able to shoot down all incoming missiles -all of them, not just some of them- and we are closer to that with our new laser weaponry than Russia is, but so far neither side can claim superiority in the use of or defense against nuclear missiles since both sides would be destroyed.

The only real advantage Russia would have is the same one North Vietnam had during the Vietnam war, opposition from various factions of the American people making us unable to fight it to win it.

Capn Mike
Capn Mike
  Anonymous
November 11, 2017 6:08 pm

Bullshit. If we had “won” that war, we’d be stuck with a hostile captive people just like Iraq and Afghanistan. I know. I was there.

Stucky
Stucky
November 11, 2017 11:57 am

“Most of their highest tech stuff is in limited numbers that could only present a limited defense or attack capability against us ”

‘MURICA, hell yeah! We’d kick their fucking ass in two weeks. A month, tops. Ya moran.

Regarding their “limited defense”, the Germans thought the same thing. Napoleon too. Many others. The USA!USA!USA! fighting any war on Russia’s soil would result in the utter destruction of our militaries.

Regarding their limited offensive abilities you don’t know Jack Shit. Literally. Unless you have access to actual Russian military secrets. Nope. You have Google. Not to mention that. it’s asinine to think Russia has plans to invade us.

You actually fucken believe we have, might have, could be close to developing a laser to shoot down ALL incoming nukes … thousands of them?? You got that from where? Dr. Strange comic books?

The only thing limited here is your chicken shit Anon brain.

kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
kokoda - AZEK (Deck Boards) doesn't stand behind its product
  Stucky
November 11, 2017 12:45 pm

Thanx for the assistance Stuck.

Anonymous
Anonymous
  Stucky
November 11, 2017 12:46 pm

I see you enjoy being an ass to participating in actual discussion.

Stucky
Stucky
  Anonymous
November 11, 2017 2:46 pm

In order for discussion to take place between two people, both need intelligence. Since you displayed that you have none, I thought “WTF, just nail this idiot”. So, I did.

Also, better to be an ass than an ASSHOLE.

Zarathustra
Zarathustra
November 11, 2017 2:15 pm

“On 9/11 the loss of 3000 innocent people placed the vast majority of US Americans into a total state of shock which resulted in a massive over-reaction at all levels (which was, of course, exactly the purpose of this false flag operation by the US and Israeli deep states)”
________________________________
When I used to say this, years ago on this site I would be hammered as an “anti-semite” and that I was hurting this site. That people now just let this pass as if it were obvious is both progress and disturbing at the same time. Are we really so blase’ or to use PCR’s favorite word, insouciant about the greatest act of treason and treachery in US history?

overthecliff
overthecliff
November 11, 2017 2:41 pm

The Germans,Japanese and the South Koreans are not our allies. That is unless ally means we do the fighting for them in their wars. They aren’t going to help us fight period. Who is shitting who?? Where were those allies when we were in Viet Nam,Iraq I , Iraq 2. They had some units in Afghanistan but most were restricted to “humanitarian” activities.

Wip
Wip
  overthecliff
November 11, 2017 4:43 pm

You are right, they are not allys as much as they are simply vassels.

Rdawg
Rdawg
  Wip
November 11, 2017 8:24 pm

Vassals.

unit472/
unit472/
  overthecliff
November 11, 2017 6:42 pm

You are quite mistaken. From Wikipaedia

In total, between 1965 and 1973, 312,853 South Korean soldiers fought in Vietnam

Germany contributed a small force to Afghanistan as did other NATO members. The RAF launched more than 1600 sorties and France too joined in the air campaign against ISIS. While Western Europe has let their military forces decay since the end of the Cold War, Eastern Europe is building theirs up as is Japan. In fact, Japan is changing its constitution now to allow for its ( very capable) armed forces to directly support the US in offensive operations should war break out with China or North Korea.

Reality is not what you think it is but is what actually takes place in the world.