Wip, I’m opposed. I’ve heard of strong family businesses that would have been maintained by heirs,
but the inheritance tax was so harsh, it made the decision to sell it more economically feasible.
A man works his ass off for X number of years, building, saving, investing, so as to become independently wealthy and successful, not relying on the gov. titty for sustenance.
His time to take a dirt nap comes, and his kin could carry on the tradition, if the thieving grubby hands of the IRS or other Fed agency greed wouldn’t rape it from them. Ten bucks says Llpoh agrees.
You’ve been propagandized. The exemption from estate tax for married couples is now up to $22.4 mil. So the heir(s) to money – who’d done nothing to earn it – can get that much tax-free.
Lager is FOR dynastic wealth. Little does he/she realize that our American elite are filled with those who are completely removed from the average citizen but makes all the countries desicions.
So if I were to bust my ass my entire life and want to leave my estate to my beloved family, you think they have no right to it? Who does? And what our children do for us is almost impossible to quantify, saying they’ve “done nothing” is impossibly short sighted. And let us not forget that taxes were paid on that money to begin with- the $22.4 million is the residual AFTER taxes, you want to tax it again so you can hand it over to stranger’s children?
Help me out with this, you usually have much deeper thoughts than this.
Any money that you disburse through spending is subject to tax by whoever gets it (after expenses, etc.). If you sold the farm and spent all of the proceeds on a painting – a really good one, like, of Britney Spears – the artist would have to pay tax on the income. If you spent the proceeds on lottery tickets and lost it all, some of your money would go to the winner who – even though they’d bought their ticket out of after-tax money – would have to pay income tax on their winnings. So the argument that “it’s after tax money” is unpersuasive – at least to me. All money is, in a sense, after tax money. The after-tax money I paid to get my house painted became taxable to the painters.
If your kids happened to have done some work on the farm (and I’m sure they did), great, but legally they’re heirs because they’re heirs, not because they can prove that they’d done any work on the farm. I’m sure you know of people who inherited money who didn’t do a damn thing to deserve it. Why should a lottery winner owe tax, but someone who’s done nothing but win the genetic lottery (born to wealth) avoid tax on his “winnings” entirely?
A logical case can be made that the inheritance tax should be 100% – that everyone should start off with nothing. Even then, those raised in wealthy families would have a huge leg-up in experiences, education, etc. Obviously a 100% inheritance tax would be stupid from an efficacy point of view, though defensible on “fairness” grounds. You say a 0% inheritance tax is fair. I say a 100% inheritance tax could argued to be fair (though stupid), so a compromise – closer to your end of the spectrum – seems perfectly reasonable – especially with a $22 million exemption from the tax (to say nothing of a “step up in basis”). A very modest inheritance tax – as we have – is a slight push-back against the aggregation of wealth that could leave us like Somoza’s Nicaragua, with 12 families owning everything.
The “dynastic wealth” that everyone is missing is that of foundations. What may have started as a truly altruistic way to “benefit society” has turned into a massive “cash cow” for the left.
The founders of these foundations (such as the Ford foundation) would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what left-wing, communistic “causes” their foundation funds are being used for.
It is long overdue to tax “foundations” and university “endowment funds”, neither of which pays any taxes on their wealth. However, I would exempt foundation and endowment funds that are used to provide tuition scholarships from taxation.
Agreed. If foundations hide money, dodge taxes, and are used as a front, or cover for peddling influence, or outright corruption, then yes. Whack them. Smaller foundations like those that have a biased influence effect on PBS shows like Frontline and Nova to paint a one sided narrative should be investigated too.
OK, Iska that’s a pretty high threshold, I admit. Any inheritance tax is ‘eat the rich’, and wealth redistribution. If $22.4 mil is too much free inheritance to the married heirs, where do we lower it to? Sure, the heirs might not have earned it. But what if they helped build the family fortune?
I get the argument about wealth disparity between the mega rich and the average family.
And, as Farmer says below, the taxes paid in the run up of profits during the growth were dues already paid, no? Why the double hit? Just seems like envy.
All taxation is a “double hit”. Arguably it’s an “infinity hit”: I spend after-tax money to get my house painted. The painter pays taxes on that income and spends some of it at the bar. The bar owner pays taxes on his net earnings and spends some of the remainder on a boat. The boat manufacturer pays taxes on that net income, etc etc.
Wip, I kiss no one’s ass, compliments aside. I do recognize past comments from him about success strategies, and enjoying the fruits of one’s own labor, and preserving it.
Like Stuck and EC…I don’t always agree with everything they say, but on many points I do.
If that makes me a disciple by your def, no big loss on my end.
That start-up you’re planning to launch. Let’s say it becomes enormously successful for you and your daughter, who I had empathy for. 20 years down the road, after you pass, should your start up be hit with a 50% inheritance tax on your progress, at the expense of your daughter’s future?
1) I think the answer starts with whether a person believes dynastic wealth is a pox on society or not.
2) I said…some form of inheritance tax.
3) I hope to have the inheritance tax problem when I die. $22 million is a lot to leave my kids.
4) if my kids end up malcontents, I doubt I would leave them much.
5) I’m not against success or the rich. I’m against dynastic wealth.
6) you didn’t comment on the fact you and I are ruled by the dynastic wealthy. They are behind the scenes. In fact another commenter told us how pelosi has had some regulations/laws changed in order to make herself wealthy.
Wealth causes lots of problems. Money does not cure or a cure all. I’d go so far as to say that wealth causes world wide problems. I’m talking about DYNASTIC WEALTH.
Fair enough. FWIW, I despise people like Bezos and Pelosi. Conservatives like those 2 also. So in that, I differ from Llpoh a bit. And can agree that dynastic wealth, your latest buzz words, can cause problems. For instance, if said wealth is used in a biased way to limit or eliminate choices and freedom.
Thx for keeping the dialog civil.
Good Luck w the new biz
I find lots of people have difficulty escaping black and white thinking. Unfortunately the middle ground is quite profitable for lawyers, politicians, the unsavory and The Devil.
Gilnut
January 31, 2018 9:03 am
I read that to the cadence of “Now I lay me down to sleep”. It works 🙂
That guy in the video is Good but it’s way to difficult for most people including tax consultants . Taxes are a form of robbery but there has got to be an Another way too avoid paying taxes. Damn , I wish I had the answer.
Maggie
January 31, 2018 1:18 pm
Does this, or does this not, sound like something written by one of our Founding Fathers. And, no, I suggest we refrain from thinking of any of them as Baby Daddies if we want to salvage this great nation under God.
It is time for some great minds to come together and help us find a way to reunite our republic, rid ourselves of indebtedness to a conglomerate of bankers and elite thieves who have turned the wealth of this nation into a slush fund, time to rebuild a society based on real values instead of the half-baked fantasy theories created in the halls of Academia, and, finally, it is long past the time to find a way to praise and reward our youth for their brilliance and hard work and stop encouraging the deviance which has turned our schools into war zones.
We need Great Thinkers to guide us toward practical approaches to solving problems through disciplined behavior and self-restraint. And we need them to help us rid ourselves of the Tyranny of the Majority which always destroys Democracy.
Is there anyone out there ready to help find a way back to being a rational society pursuing rational goals? Can we find a way to make common sense more common?
Tax the air you inhale
Tax the air you exhale
I’m against dynastic wealth, ergo I’m for some form of inheritance tax.
Wip, I’m opposed. I’ve heard of strong family businesses that would have been maintained by heirs,
but the inheritance tax was so harsh, it made the decision to sell it more economically feasible.
A man works his ass off for X number of years, building, saving, investing, so as to become independently wealthy and successful, not relying on the gov. titty for sustenance.
His time to take a dirt nap comes, and his kin could carry on the tradition, if the thieving grubby hands of the IRS or other Fed agency greed wouldn’t rape it from them. Ten bucks says Llpoh agrees.
You’ve been propagandized. The exemption from estate tax for married couples is now up to $22.4 mil. So the heir(s) to money – who’d done nothing to earn it – can get that much tax-free.
Lager is FOR dynastic wealth. Little does he/she realize that our American elite are filled with those who are completely removed from the average citizen but makes all the countries desicions.
Weird to support dynastic wealth.
So if I were to bust my ass my entire life and want to leave my estate to my beloved family, you think they have no right to it? Who does? And what our children do for us is almost impossible to quantify, saying they’ve “done nothing” is impossibly short sighted. And let us not forget that taxes were paid on that money to begin with- the $22.4 million is the residual AFTER taxes, you want to tax it again so you can hand it over to stranger’s children?
Help me out with this, you usually have much deeper thoughts than this.
Any money that you disburse through spending is subject to tax by whoever gets it (after expenses, etc.). If you sold the farm and spent all of the proceeds on a painting – a really good one, like, of Britney Spears – the artist would have to pay tax on the income. If you spent the proceeds on lottery tickets and lost it all, some of your money would go to the winner who – even though they’d bought their ticket out of after-tax money – would have to pay income tax on their winnings. So the argument that “it’s after tax money” is unpersuasive – at least to me. All money is, in a sense, after tax money. The after-tax money I paid to get my house painted became taxable to the painters.
If your kids happened to have done some work on the farm (and I’m sure they did), great, but legally they’re heirs because they’re heirs, not because they can prove that they’d done any work on the farm. I’m sure you know of people who inherited money who didn’t do a damn thing to deserve it. Why should a lottery winner owe tax, but someone who’s done nothing but win the genetic lottery (born to wealth) avoid tax on his “winnings” entirely?
A logical case can be made that the inheritance tax should be 100% – that everyone should start off with nothing. Even then, those raised in wealthy families would have a huge leg-up in experiences, education, etc. Obviously a 100% inheritance tax would be stupid from an efficacy point of view, though defensible on “fairness” grounds. You say a 0% inheritance tax is fair. I say a 100% inheritance tax could argued to be fair (though stupid), so a compromise – closer to your end of the spectrum – seems perfectly reasonable – especially with a $22 million exemption from the tax (to say nothing of a “step up in basis”). A very modest inheritance tax – as we have – is a slight push-back against the aggregation of wealth that could leave us like Somoza’s Nicaragua, with 12 families owning everything.
The “dynastic wealth” that everyone is missing is that of foundations. What may have started as a truly altruistic way to “benefit society” has turned into a massive “cash cow” for the left.
The founders of these foundations (such as the Ford foundation) would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what left-wing, communistic “causes” their foundation funds are being used for.
It is long overdue to tax “foundations” and university “endowment funds”, neither of which pays any taxes on their wealth. However, I would exempt foundation and endowment funds that are used to provide tuition scholarships from taxation.
Very good points. I’m glad you weigh in much more often than you used to.
Agreed. If foundations hide money, dodge taxes, and are used as a front, or cover for peddling influence, or outright corruption, then yes. Whack them. Smaller foundations like those that have a biased influence effect on PBS shows like Frontline and Nova to paint a one sided narrative should be investigated too.
OK, Iska that’s a pretty high threshold, I admit. Any inheritance tax is ‘eat the rich’, and wealth redistribution. If $22.4 mil is too much free inheritance to the married heirs, where do we lower it to? Sure, the heirs might not have earned it. But what if they helped build the family fortune?
I get the argument about wealth disparity between the mega rich and the average family.
And, as Farmer says below, the taxes paid in the run up of profits during the growth were dues already paid, no? Why the double hit? Just seems like envy.
All taxation is a “double hit”. Arguably it’s an “infinity hit”: I spend after-tax money to get my house painted. The painter pays taxes on that income and spends some of it at the bar. The bar owner pays taxes on his net earnings and spends some of the remainder on a boat. The boat manufacturer pays taxes on that net income, etc etc.
Lager – Are you a disciple of LLPOH?
Wip, I kiss no one’s ass, compliments aside. I do recognize past comments from him about success strategies, and enjoying the fruits of one’s own labor, and preserving it.
Like Stuck and EC…I don’t always agree with everything they say, but on many points I do.
If that makes me a disciple by your def, no big loss on my end.
That start-up you’re planning to launch. Let’s say it becomes enormously successful for you and your daughter, who I had empathy for. 20 years down the road, after you pass, should your start up be hit with a 50% inheritance tax on your progress, at the expense of your daughter’s future?
1) I think the answer starts with whether a person believes dynastic wealth is a pox on society or not.
2) I said…some form of inheritance tax.
3) I hope to have the inheritance tax problem when I die. $22 million is a lot to leave my kids.
4) if my kids end up malcontents, I doubt I would leave them much.
5) I’m not against success or the rich. I’m against dynastic wealth.
6) you didn’t comment on the fact you and I are ruled by the dynastic wealthy. They are behind the scenes. In fact another commenter told us how pelosi has had some regulations/laws changed in order to make herself wealthy.
Wealth causes lots of problems. Money does not cure or a cure all. I’d go so far as to say that wealth causes world wide problems. I’m talking about DYNASTIC WEALTH.
Fair enough. FWIW, I despise people like Bezos and Pelosi. Conservatives like those 2 also. So in that, I differ from Llpoh a bit. And can agree that dynastic wealth, your latest buzz words, can cause problems. For instance, if said wealth is used in a biased way to limit or eliminate choices and freedom.
Thx for keeping the dialog civil.
Good Luck w the new biz
Being more civil is one of my new year’s resolutions.?
Remember, all those $$$s held by the wealthy are a claim on real world resources. Including all labor.
3rd plank of the Communist Manifesto, abolish rights of inheritance.
Who said anything abolish? The majority of an inheritance flows through – especially after a 22 mil carve-out.
I find lots of people have difficulty escaping black and white thinking. Unfortunately the middle ground is quite profitable for lawyers, politicians, the unsavory and The Devil.
I read that to the cadence of “Now I lay me down to sleep”. It works 🙂
The Beatles-Tax Man
Tax Is Theft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_iI4elB6Ik
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That guy in the video is Good but it’s way to difficult for most people including tax consultants . Taxes are a form of robbery but there has got to be an Another way too avoid paying taxes. Damn , I wish I had the answer.
Does this, or does this not, sound like something written by one of our Founding Fathers. And, no, I suggest we refrain from thinking of any of them as Baby Daddies if we want to salvage this great nation under God.
It is time for some great minds to come together and help us find a way to reunite our republic, rid ourselves of indebtedness to a conglomerate of bankers and elite thieves who have turned the wealth of this nation into a slush fund, time to rebuild a society based on real values instead of the half-baked fantasy theories created in the halls of Academia, and, finally, it is long past the time to find a way to praise and reward our youth for their brilliance and hard work and stop encouraging the deviance which has turned our schools into war zones.
We need Great Thinkers to guide us toward practical approaches to solving problems through disciplined behavior and self-restraint. And we need them to help us rid ourselves of the Tyranny of the Majority which always destroys Democracy.
Is there anyone out there ready to help find a way back to being a rational society pursuing rational goals? Can we find a way to make common sense more common?
IMO, the only way to get there is to abolish all income taxes. A flat sales tax is the answer.