THE REAL WAR

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MN Steel
MN Steel

Keep thanking Vets and shaking their hands. It makes them feel so, so very much appreciated.

It does for me.

/s

The ONLY reason the VA, VFW, American Legion et al exist are to appease the broken, trained warriors so they don’t get together and kill the fuckers that sent them to do stupid shit.

NickelthroweR
NickelthroweR

Greetings,

Few things make me angrier than the obligatory, “thank you for your service” statement that the public feels obligated to say. I always respond with, “you can thank me by not voting for war criminals and sociopaths.”

kokoda the Deplorable Raccoon and I-LUV-CO2
kokoda the Deplorable Raccoon and I-LUV-CO2

Even with your /sarc tag, I am not sure of your meaning/intent.

If it was to laugh or demean about the soldiers committing suicide, you will have a problem.

JLS
JLS

Did those voluntarily, or did someone force them to fight, actually kill people, in other countries?

Their suicide is what they got as rwards from killing other innocent people.

Dutchman
Dutchman

I have a couple of thoughts. A lot of these people got their education paid for by the military. I don’t think they ever thought they would be called to active duty, in some cases the husband and wife we both called up. Also getting blown-up / maimed by IED’s must be terrifying. Just the thought of going to Iraq – that’s fucked up. And when these people come back – it’s all of a sudden no more action, time has passed them by.

In the 70’s to 1985 I did a lot of DoD work – aircraft and submarines – I met enough ex-military people that never adjusted to civilian life.

JustTruth
JustTruth

The plan of the US government is for enlisted military to die before their time, either:
– In line of duty
– Suicide, due to gross neglect by government in treating mental and physical injuries
– Shortened natural lifespan from extended tours trauma

The government wants them to die, so they don’t have to pay for them. Trump is no different-look at the clown he put in charge of Veterans affairs.

Don’t see any swamp cleaning at the VA, do you? All the money goes to the MIC.

Rather Not
Rather Not

I don’t trust a statistic, any statistic, just because someone added it to a picture.

I think it is important to look at, but it should be a suicide rate, not nominal number. Should be controlled for per person likelihood of suicide, M/F, familiarity with firearms etc.

steve
steve

It takes quite a lot to get to the point where suicide is the attractive solution and acted upon . The number of those living in the suicide contemplation cohort are vast multiples of actual suicides.

Zarathustra

I suppose the cognitive dissonance of the average american, which can be summed up in the obligatory salutation “thank you for your service” is pretty hard to take for a war hardened veteran who has seen the pointless destruction of human life and property first hand. Who is going to counsel them? Not the military. Not the churches. Not even their own family. They are totally alone in their desperation so it is no wonder so many decide to end it. So what’s to do?

First let’s all dispense with the phony patriotism and call the evil for what it is. If that means sounding “anti-american” whatever the fuck that means or “anti-semitic” then so fucking be it. At least that gives the veteran something to think about as they work on their lives in the aftermath. A strong dose of the truth is a good beginning. If they are tough enough to handle war then they are tough enough to handle that.

NickelthroweR
NickelthroweR

Greetings,

Seven of my daughter’s co-workers went to that show in Vegas that got shot up. All of them are women in their early 20’s. All of them spent several minutes in a crowd that was targeted by distant gunfire. Without exception, not a single one of them was able to return to work. One of them tried but my daughter said that she would just randomly begin weeping and was a total wreck. Within a month, all seven would move back home to live with their parents. All of them suffer from PTSD.

Now, imagine how things are if you are a soldier and have been one during the War of Terror. Imagine what your PTSD must be like after, say, 5 tours of duty in a war zone with no front lines. Always waiting for the sniper’s bullet or IED and not for the 2-3 minutes like in Vegas but for 5 solid years. What do you think that does to a person?

Mark
Mark

Yea, my heart goes out to them.

Tender young normies with no training or trauma experience (or expectations of any trauma actually happening to them) will be haunted and many/most will react by living in a fetal position after.

Those who love them should guide them to counselling…it takes way too much precious time for the wounds to close…so the scar can form…and start to fade…without it.

Jamesjamescarter556@hushmail.com

A lot of suicides are slow deaths through drugs/booze(a drug) ect.I had a friend who did tour in mid east who lived off and on my couch for over a year.He finally hooked up with a good vet group and despite problems in VA has hooked up with a great counselor who helped without hooking him on anti depressants. I would also say friends/family did their part to help any way they could.I have lost a lot of friends/family thru suicide,that said,help any friends/family whether service or other reasons depressed ect. any way you can,sometimes as I have learned you won’t win,but a few times you will and makes life a little more happy/bearable though is also at times a tough/very sad road,worth the effort though!

James
James

A lot of suicides are slow deaths through drugs/booze(a drug) ect.I had a friend who did tour in mid east who lived off and on my couch for over a year.He finally hooked up with a good vet group and despite problems in VA has hooked up with a great counselor who helped without hooking him on anti depressants. I would also say friends/family did their part to help any way they could.I have lost a lot of friends/family thru suicide,that said,help any friends/family whether service or other reasons depressed ect. any way you can,sometimes as I have learned you won’t win,but a few times you will and makes life a little more happy/bearable though is also at times a tough/very sad road,worth the effort though!

James
James

Ooooops,sorry about double post.

kokoda the Deplorable Raccoon and I-LUV-CO2
kokoda the Deplorable Raccoon and I-LUV-CO2

Well. Reading the comments, seem like there are a number of Pussies, or should I say Cunts, or Cocksuckers in the crowd. Don’t like what I say, ES&D you worthless scum.

Geez, fucking idiots get hung up on ‘Thank You For Your Service’ that MN Fluffer let out of the bag, even though it had nothing to do with the message in the Post. Try to grasp that, grammer school readers.

Nickel throwup’s 1st comment ate shit, but 2nd comment was worthy to many of his prior exemplary comments.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs

The 2 easiest things anyone can do is,
1. Don’t curse us unless we have done more than one tour. There is no excuse for re-upping.
2. Don’t thank us. Its patronizing to us and makes you look like a pandering pussy.
It doesn’t take long once you are “over there” to realize it’s a dishonest war. Being under stress from pressure and threats to continue and all the other things that come from being in a war zone make it hard for young men to come up with an immediate way out that won’t disgrace their families is harder than it looks or sounds. Think back when you were under 25.
The pain and guilt of knowing down in your heart you have participated in something so wrong is hard on a grown up let alone these kids. Just treat them like a sick friend and stay out of it until they ask.
Explaining anymore would be like a woman trying to tell you what it feels like to be pregnant.

Mark
Mark

If anyone wants to understand PTSD no matter their experience with it read:

ON KILLING: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

Here is the Amazon blurb:
The good news is that most soldiers are loath to kill. But armies have developed sophisticated ways of overcoming this instinctive aversion. And contemporary civilian society, particularly the media, replicates the army’s conditioning techniques, and, according to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman’s thesis, is responsible for our rising rate of murder among the young.

Upon its initial publication, ON KILLING was hailed as a landmark study of the techniques the military uses to overcome the powerful reluctance to kill, of how killing affects soldiers, and of the societal implications of escalating violence. Now, Grossman has updated this classic work to include information on 21st-century military conflicts, recent trends in crime, suicide bombings, school shootings, and more. The result is a work certain to be relevant and important for decades to come.

https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-
Society/dp/0316040932/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524523227&sr=1-1&keywords=on+killing

It covers PTSD like a poncho.

Zarathustra
CCRider
CCRider

So Rand wants us to listen to what trump says rather than watch what he does? Fuck you asshole.

MrLiberty
MrLiberty

I would love to see the statistics for WW2 veterans (you know, the last group of soldiers that could honestly say they were fighting to actually defend America, knew the reason they were fighting, and actually were allowed to finish the job they started)?

Now don’t get me wrong…I still stand by my beliefs regarding FDR’s provocation of the Japanese, the deep desire of FDR to go against the vast majority of Americans who wanted NOTHING to do with Europe’s war, etc. But those who fought, were committed to their beliefs regarding their participation from beginning to end of their tour of duty….and no doubt that had a completely different impact on them than what every soldier since 1945 has experienced.

Zarathustra

I don’t think WW2 vets committed suicide much. What they did is not integrate back into society and found things like motorcycle gangs (Hells Angels) or create the counterculture (Beatniks) or do and abuse their children and cheat on their spouses. Why do you think their kids, the boomers, rebelled against them?

MrLiberty
MrLiberty

Probably a lot of truth to that. For sure, having come from a war that they “knew” was good/righteous, etc., they had few problems blinding accepting the Korean and Vietnam shams on faith. As well, they also watched as the “wonderful government” “fixed” the Great Depression, “defeated” fascism, and all the rest of the lies, and that led to more blind faith in government to solve all the rest of the problems. Their kids on the other hand weren’t so jaded and rightly rebelled. Suicide indeed is an internalization of your anger. A lot of what went on in society from 1945-1970 was a lot of externalization of the anger.

Mark
Mark

MrLiberty

“Of the 800,000 American troops who actually saw combat during the Second World War, 37.5 percent displayed such severe psychological symptoms that they were permanently discharged. Since obviously it’s not that so many men of the Greatest Generation were not encumbered by a weak character, the military adopted a subtle change in terminology that birthed the practice of describing wartime stress reactions with euphemistic language. Ergo, this stigma-laced condition was subsequently referred to as “battle fatigue” or “combat exhaustion.

By the time the United States intervened in Korea, the humanity of combat stress had been almost completely removed and its perceived seriousness diminished. Those displaying symptoms of traumatic reactions were said to have suffered from “operational exhaustion,” which further distanced observers from the reality of the disorder. One-quarter of all soldiers who saw combat during the Korean War were classified as psychiatric casualties.

It is no longer a topic of debate that the fighting during the Vietnam War was demonstrably more intense than was ever experienced in previous American conflicts. As the war progressed and the public began to question its legitimacy, instances of psychological breakdown increased.

The American Psychiatric Association first codified post-traumatic stress disorder and included it in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders III in 1980. The oft-cited National Vietnam Veterans’ Readjustment Study concluded that nearly one-third of Vietnam veterans have had PTSD at some point in their lives.

Researchers have estimated that about 30 percent of the 2.5 million troops who have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from PTSD. The psychological effects of combat have long been a silent plague throughout the country, crippling families and robbing communities of their greatest citizens. Suicide is now the leading cause of death among active duty service members. This is a heart-wrenching tragedy.”

A brief history of PTSD: The evolution of our understanding:
https://www.military1.com/army/article/405058-a-brief-history-of-ptsd-the-evolution-of-our-understanding/

Mark
Mark

Just out of sad curiosity…whoever you are…if you have the balls or the ovaries…please explain your down vote on this.

Really…lets have a TBP debate.

Up for it?

Or will you just hide?

Zarathustra

Scott Adams confronts his past fellation of all things Trumpy and the mirage of 4D chess:

https://www.pscp.tv/ScottAdamsSays/1eaKbpqPlzjJX?t=569

kokoda the Deplorable Raccoon and I-LUV-CO2
kokoda the Deplorable Raccoon and I-LUV-CO2

Adams is one dumb-fuck on Syria. He should stick to cartoons.

He’s been absent from TBP recently; maybe cuz of the pounding he has taken.

RHS Jr
RHS Jr

If 1% of those Vets who (wastefully) committed suicide had taken the positive constructive step of taking a Congressman with them, Washington’s GD warmongering would promptly stop dead (pun intended) or Congress would finally solve the Vet suicide problem. How about it Vets, if you’re gonna do it anyway, take out one for the Gipper.

TampaRed
TampaRed

vets who never deployed to a war zone commit suicide at a higher rate than deployed vets–
depending upon the age,many civilians commit suicide at higher rates than vets–
much of this is driven by politics & $–

http://www.vocativ.com/usa/military/veteran-suicide/index.html

overthecliff
overthecliff

How many of that 128,000 would have committed suicide if they had never been in uniform? How were the suicides counted? Were drug overdoses counted?
RHS jr best idea I’ve heard in forever. Each one get one. If not a congressman some other government pos. IRS,FBI,enviro-nazis,dirty copsand slimy local politicians. They can’t protect them all.
The vets would be honoring their constitutional oath.

That being said don’t do it . Live to fight another day.

Anonymous
Anonymous
KeyserSusie
KeyserSusie

Second attempt here. About a subject near to my grieving heart. I had over 2000 words, lost.

Great topic and better comments! Thank you to those who share concerns about these matters. My son took his life on 6 Feb, 2018. He served during Operation Iraqi Freedom and was recalled to serve in Kuwait. He was a good soldier by all accounts. The Army offered redemption and purpose for him. I enclose a message I gave at his celebration of life ceremony that was well received:

Sunday greetings to all. I wish to thank friends, family and soldiers who attended Blake’s celebration of life event a week ago. The presence of two Command Sergeant Majors from the US Army and the public comment of one was greatly appreciated. It was an honor to hear witness from his brothers in arms from Operation Iraqi Freedom. And the emotional support I received from everyone was not wasted and continues to give comfort.
Some have expressed my brief speech gave comfort so I enclose my words spoken there for all to hear; from the event:
“I am not detective nor a psychic. I am a grieving father. I do not offer answers. But there are some facts I would like to share. All of you have fond memories of Blake or You would not be here.
I am grateful for your attendance of his life’s celebration.
My sense of loss is lessoned by sharing it with you.
A father needs no eulogy to know the good of his son. I invite you to share your stories and memories of Blake with each other and to make a toast today if you are so moved.
I wish to address details some of you may not know. Blake had sought out help from the Veterans Administration – off and on, for the last year or two. First in Atlanta, then Ft. Lauderdale and again in Atlanta most recently, in January. Over a year ago he showed me his VA medical work up.
It included psychologic factors and alcohol treatment plans. He was hopeful it would help, as we all were. It did, somewhat. At least he could discuss what needed to be done with me. We lovingly encouraged Blake to continue on his mission. However, when he did not follow though, his troubles continued. He left Ft. Lauderdale to turn over a new leaf in Atlanta with the help of his girlfriend.
By February Blake was at the end of his rope and felt he had no where to go. It has been said suicide is a cry for help, unheard and unheeded.

On January 16 of this year Blake went to the VA hospital in Atlanta and asked for help as he was having thoughts of harming himself. They confiscated his AR 15 rifle from his vehicle. They retained him for stabilization for 72 hours. He was strongly advised to go directly into residential treatment. However he legally checked himself out. They retained his gun and he was charged with felony possession of a firearm and ammunition on Federal property. They had no right or obligation to advise others of his plight. I only learned these facts after I was notified of his death, when speaking with the VA. For reasons known and unknown he rejected residential treatment options.

He had been making progress with orderly intentions. However fate and circumstance conspired to strip him of his remaining dignity and hope. He no doubt felt abandoned and isolated with no where to go as personal details of his life took a turn for the worse. His act demonstrated plans made in advance.

I tell this story in the hopes his tale may help us forgive Blake.
And forgive ourselves for not knowing his pain and not being there for him.
And I share this information in order to better help us detect those who may harbor thoughts of self harm, or worse, thoughts of harming others.
The last time I talked with Blake was about three weeks prior. He had called to tell me he had taken his first college test at Chattahoochee Technical College in Marietta. He sounded happy as he shared good news of a high mark on the test.
I close by saying Please enjoy this day and this company.”
#tothefreeandthefallen

There is no easy solution to soldier suicides. It is a societal problem fostered by the deep chit of deep state actors. And I believe there is spiritual remedy, simple but not easy. I quote a 12 step mantra:

“We are people in the grip of a continuing and progressive illness whose ends are always the same: jails, institutions, and death.”

I am guilty of saying ‘thank you for your service’. And I feel guilty when it is said to me as I gave up little to enlist and was rewarded handsomely for the privilege of serving at the gates of the Iron Curtain. My assignment was delayed due to open hostilities and a shooting conflict in the theater of my duty station. However the two years was like living on a country club. On my way to Karamursel during the flight’s layover in Frankfurt, Germany, I was chatted up by a Marine rifleman doing duty as a diplomatic courier. He told me I should not be sleeping on the airport floor and to zip up my uniform jacket. He also told me the only thing a rifleman feels is the recoil when he shoots his weapon. His demeanor and soldier comportment seemed honorable to me.

My other son’s last duty in the Army was as a Master Resilience Training instructor. He struggles with the virtual red pilling he received from seeing it go down first hand and works faithfully to remedy his life as best he can.

Master Resilience Training (MRT) is “a 10-day program of study that teaches resilience skills to noncommissioned officers” which has been offered in the United States Army since 2009 (Reivich et al., 2011). MRT is an aspect of the United States Army’s broader Comprehensive Soldier Fitness program (Seligman et al., 2011).
https://positivepsychologyprogram.com/master-resilience-training-mrt/

Mostly it is telling raw and new recruits not to marry that stripper before they deploy. It is an effort to combat the cog dis that normal people walk around with. I was impressed with the psych principles they used to facilitate better thinking and actions to deal with the slings and arrows we all face. My son was good at sharing his life experiences to drive home the important thinking skills necessary to get along in this life. Kudos to the Army for the efforts! He still struggles with hyper vigilance, a remnant of 5 combat stripes. Two tours as boots on the ground and rifle on ready, multiple IED’s explosions under his vehicle (Strykers) and one tour as a fobbit.

Blake died wearing the memorial bracelet he wore ever since 2006 in honor of his friend who was KIA. Also on his flank was a tattoo honoring the same battle buddy. “Josh Pearce Cold Steel 26 Feb ’06”

Blake said this on
May 28, 2010 ·

“”If I have to lay my life down for my country I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it!” And I couldn’t say it better. I do not want to die, but if that’s what I was put on this earth to do, then everyone should know that I went for a cause that in my heart was worth dying for.
-josh pearce 26th feb 2006
happy memorial day people. enjoy it”

I am pleased with the VA and their communications with me. Especially Lulu at the Atlanta VA was and is very responsive and compassionate. Blake’s AR 15 is ready for me to retrieve when I am ready.

Also I would like to recognize the Georgia Cremation Center. They do an amazing job! Cost $1200. First class people and organization. They did so many difficult things for me. They arranged all the necessary paper work for the VA and government. They added many special touches to the ordeal. The ashes were special delivered to me, arriving in good order in a very nice hard plastic presentation box – with extra mementos included. Many thanks to them.

Peace

Mark
Mark

My heartfelt condolences.

Mark
Mark

There should have been at least 50 up votes on:
KeyserSusie says:
April 24, 2018 at 2:52 pm

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