There are willfully delusional persons who actually believe the USA!USA!USA! military is the bestest most powerfulest in da whole wide world. One of these is named Donald Trump.
There are massively dangerous idiots who actually believe we can kick Russia’s ass any time we want! These are people like Bolton, Pompeo, Halley, a.k.a. Neocons. Some of them actually want to start a war ASAP. One of them is dead (Shitstain), one is near dead (Hillcunt), and another is actually an entire (((country))). These people will get us(A) all killed.
Then there are millions of citizen-idiots who have no respect for Russia at all, distort everything about them, doubt all the info available about Russia’s new weapon systems, and say really really stupid shit like — “Well, they can’t even build a decent car.” There is at least one such Confused Cromagnoid Cretin on TBP, and his name is unit2847 (or whateverthefuck the numbers are).
But …. can those maroons explain this?? Nope!!
Is that a thing of beauty, or what? It’s the Russian Onyx anti-ship missile … testing video just released last week. Speed is just under 2,000mph. Can be launched from almost 200 miles away. Flies about 30 feet above the water. Carries about 500 pounds of high explosives. Costs a few million (compared to billions for an aircraft carrier … many billions if you include the airplanes on the ship).
Even the US NAvy isn’t sure if the carriers’s anti-missile systems can shoot down even one of these incoming missiles. Six of them coming from all sides? You can kiss that carrier Auf Wiedersehn.
And these aren’t even the most advanced anti-ship missiles Russia makes. Just last week the nation’s military announced that it had completed testing of a new hypersonic cruise missile. Hypersonic is Mach5 …. that’s 6,000 mph. There’s just no defense against that. None.
We should be FRIENDS with Russia. They are a nation of mostly white people with a rich Christian heritage. (You know … like we used to be.)
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Wouldn’t want to be in the navy for WW III. Or the army, marines, or air force. Or near a city. Or on earth. If I hope for Washington DC to disintegrate first, is that bad?
Yes ,but that wouldn’t serve the interests of the advocates for eternal war!
This link is just an example …
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-df-26-anti-ship-ballistic-missile-what-does-the-16260
Point is, there are now ballistic missiles that can target and take out ships w trajectories much like an ICBM. These things would be moving at many thousands of mph … undefendable.
No wonder so many Americans are renunciating their citizenship i.e emigrating.
nobody in their right mind is emigrating
Only somebody who can bend a star over a rain barrel hasn’t considered emigrating.
Time for the aircraft carrier subs that launch pilotless planes .
They would be destroyed in several different ways first.
Great sentiment and certainly the moral and practical position but I object to just one sentence on a technicality: “We should be FRIENDS with Russia.” Just who is the “WE’? Cause it goddamn sure it ain’t us rabble. You mean bolton, kissinger and netanyahu? They don’t give a shit what “We” think.
Vote, my ass.
I wish they’d take out Google, Facebook, Amazon and NSA’s Utah Data Center.
You are right on this one stuckman.
Lets not forget about all those combat veterans of Call of Duty. I notice they are all rah rah. Half of them couldn’t make it from here to the corner without the aid of a gas station. The rest would shit themselves if it ever went hot.
I know Stuck-n-zee-doitch’s writing anywhere.
Best line for last.
“We should be FRIENDS with Russia. They are a nation of mostly white people with a rich Christian heritage. (You know … like we used to be.)”
There is extensive literature aircraft on carrier operations under wartime conditions. Stucky might want to familiarize himself with it before he opines on the survivability of the big ships. They are hard to sink and can stay afloat even with extensive damage. See the WW2 Essex class carriers Bunker Hill and Franklin. The Essex class was the largest carriers the USN operated in WW2 and displaced about 30,000 tons. NONE were lost in WW2 though several were hit with Kamikazes and aerial bombs. The Franklin fared worst as it was conducting air strikes on Japan proper in the closest approach ( 50 miles) ever attempted by US carriers. Two 550 lbs bombs penetrated its flight deck which was full of fueled and armed aircraft. About 800 sailors died but the ship limped back to Pearl Harbor.
Interesting were the British carriers engaged off Japan at the same time. Unlike the wooden flight decks still used by the USN the British carriers had armored flight decks ( at the expense of a smaller air wing) but they survived direct hits by Kamikazes without major damage.
Of course both American and British WW2 carriers were midgets compared to the carriers of today and getting close enough to a carrier task force to launch missile attacks is the problem for an enemy. For example the combat radius of the new F-35 is about 650 plus nautical miles on internal fuel so a Russian ship trying to get within 200 miles would be unlikely to survive long enough to attack. Submarines might have a better chance but there were submarines in WW2 and carriers were not rendered helpless by them.
A final thought, for an obsolete ship, it appears many navies want carriers of their own. The British have built two 65,000 ton and France also has a big deck carrier. Baby flat tops are popping up everywhere now that VSTOL jets are available because you can’t operate at sea without some air cover be it land or ship based.
Yeah, they better have VSTOL jets because the new maglev catapults don’t seem to work.
I don’t think anybody has put a single ship of ours on the bottom of the ocean since World War II. And I know nobody has put a carrier on the bottom since then. The Sheffield got taken out by an exocet missile in the Falklands what, 30 years ago? People were saying at the time that it was a game changer. It was just a lucky hit
How much sailorin’ did you do? Armchair like Unit? Who have we engaged in since ’45 with a capable navy?
I don’t know. Surface ships in my experience lose in war games with their own navy’s submarines. Carrier Co to my CO “you didn’t sink us”. My CO’s response was to launch a red smoke out the signal ejector onto the flight deck. Are you an armchair sailor?
You guys realize Amurika (and perhaps others) have perfected a new evolution of weaponry ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRZpqPZm7Q4
These obsolete/antiquated ships … planes .. etc simply allow for the deep state to keep their financial rape game going on into perpetuity. You think lucas’ ‘star wars’ was fiction … its a documentary (to an extent)
Won’t work underwater.
and, as @subwo accurately recalls, there’s really only two kinds of ships: 1) subs and 2) targets.
Ya, das boot ist kaput ohne problem
Boy, you NAILED it Stuck!!!
I tell this story every time this comes up:
When I was a young idiot aboard the USS Long Beach back in ‘Nam, we hung out off of Haiphong Harbour.
The Long Beach was built for speed (PR), and the hull was THIN.
Anyhow, the NVA had these COMAR PT boats, which were low freeboard and made of WOOD. Early (and highly effective) stealth.
On dark nights these bad boys would stalk us and keep me sleepless. We just couldn’t see them even with RADAR, but we knew they were out there. They carried two humongous dumb rockets (un-jammable). One of those could penetrate the hull and blow up one of the reactors with ease. A little floating (and sinking) Chernobyl). O Boy, some fun.
This was in 1967, 1968, 1969. Our Navy geniuses haven’t learned a thing since
Yeah, but the Beach was one sexy looking ship. I thought it was built on a WW2 cruiser hull…wouldn’t that have been a bit thicker than say my 600×60 slice of heaven (DLGN/CGN-36)? The boxy bridge was mostly aluminum…so no help there. When they cut up the Cali, I swear there was more paint than steel on the hull…sad.
The truth is we do not know what weapons systems our government has. We know what we are allowed to see, and we know that we have spent trillions upon trillions of dollars developing weapons for 30 years while Russia was financially unable to spend even a small fraction of what we did.
Do not be deceived that we are vulnarable, or that we are a peace seeking nation. War is the most profitable buisness in the world, and the US is the gorilla when it comes to war.
DARPA has developed chit that we would believe is only SciFi in nature– neural controlled mechanizations, trans-human adaptations, nearly autonomous robotic weaponry– even the things they admit to on their website are pretty scary. I can’t imagine the weapons and mind-linked type of stuff they have that is not spoken about.
Someone I know in the technology patenting sector in DC suggests they are working on patents for weapons systems the public will not see for another twenty years.
Here is my biggest problem with that: When did companies in the employ of the US government get to patent their technology and then claim proprietary rights when the government tries to find alternative vendors?
The Clintons changed the rules so the big companies could sell stuff to China and other countries to grease the wheels of their own diplomatic agenda.
Unfortunately, most people won’t believe American aircraft carriers can be destroyed by Russian weaponry until an aircraft carrier is actually destroyed by a Russian missile. Fortunately, the Russians are too smart to give a demonstration and won’t use them unless severely provoked. Unfortunately, the idiots running our government are just stupid enough to severely provoke them. There is no counterbalancing fortunately to that one.
The only “demonstration” will be if/when an actual shooting war starts and the carriers are simultaneously taken out across the world w multiple missile attacks.
I just wish the world would stop wanting to kill each other.
Give peace a chance
We have no heavy industry and to small a population of males 18 to 24 to mount any real defense . We are lead by fools who watch RAMBO and believe that shit . Our military industrial complex is busy buying their way to riches contracting jobs thru the low life Washington insiders . There is a reason they are known as “BELTWAY BANDITS” and the largest concentration of extreme wealth is in the counties of Maryland and Virginia surrounding the District of Corruption .
To all you proud families of military service I honor their intent to serve and have no respect for the people sending them in harms way . The “THEY” I speak of do not give a shit about you your children nothing just how much “THEY” can squeeze out before it crashes $$$$$
Yes, straight to the bottom they will go if we fight against Russia or China….
US Carriers can easily be destroyed; they are great weapons short of all out war; in all out war, they are “Triggers” (events that would immediately solidify public support) for the DoD to escalate to whatever force response desired. Likewise, the Russians and Chinese have “Triggers” we better respect too. NeoCons could get US into WWIII faster than the World got into WWI or WWII.
They are great weapons for bullying small countries …
I believe the phalanx can stop just about anything – if it is seen in time. The send up literal walls of projectiles. I have read that low speed water skimming missiles that get close to their targets then go supersonic are very worrisome to carriers. The get within a mile or two, at a couple feet off the water, then zip in fast, so the phalanx cannot lock on. If the missiles can be seen early, they can be taken out. Also, carriers are surrounded by a lot of ships tasked with protecting the carrier.
I think carriers are obsolete near land especially. The need lots of space to keep themselves safe.
Have you ever read Clancy’s “Red Storm Rising?” Two Soviet missiles closing in side by side. The Phalanx gun cycled back and forth between the two without firing because it was programmed to engage the closest threat and since they were equally threatening could choose neither.
One of Clancy’s best. It would have made a heck of a movie years back.
Making those carriers particularly vulnerable inside the Persian Gulf.
The groups are formed up close, not spread out over hundreds of square miles like on the open ocean. Swarm missile attacks could be very effective. If you see that happen be long crude.?
My money is on the Iranians getting the first carrier “scalp.”
“I believe the phalanx can stop just about anything – if it is seen in time.” —– Llpoh
That’s as big “if”.
Summary of below quote:
1) The Phalanx EFFECTIVE range is 1.5km. The Onyx flies at 1km/sec. Basically, the ship has ONE SECOND to shoot down the missile.
2) Also, the Onyx has it’s own ECM … and, as BL noted here, the Russkies have damned good electronic countermeasure capabilities.
3) Also, the Phalanx does fire very fast and puts up a wall of depleted uranium shells. But, that also means the ammo magazine is depleted rather quickly. And replacing the drum is time consuming (relative to the next incoming missile).
Basically, that pro-USA web site says that the Navy can stop any one Onyx missile. It even says it can stop more than one. But, at some point, — 4 missiles, or 5, or 6, — a barrage of incoming Onyx missiles will overwhelm any Navy ship.
============================================================
“The Phalanx has an effective range of 1.5 km when dealing with low flying cruise missiles. If it faces a single Onyx which has bypassed other missile defense layers, the radar of the Phalanx locks on to the Onyx and unleashes a torrent of 20 mm depleted uranium projectiles which should shred the Onyx easily. But, that’s not going to happen. The Phalanx fires at 3000 rounds per minute which translate into 50 rounds per second. Since the Onyx flies at 1 km per sec and the effective range of Phalanx is 1.5 km, it has just 1.5 seconds to shoot down the Onyx when the Onyx is 1.5 km away from the ship. And since BrahMos is traveling so fast, if you shoot it less than 500 m away from your ship, its fragments will still strike your ship at high speeds and cause damage. So Onyx has to be engaged between 500 m and 1.5 km by the Phalanx. This gives it a total firing time of 1 second. And since it needs half a second to reach the full rate of fire, only around 40 rounds can be fired in that time.”
https://defencyclopedia.com/2014/12/27/explained-how-the-us-navy-can-shoot-down-the-deadly-brahmos-missile/
Phalanx will not work against Ballistic Missiles.
Russia isn’t the only country with weapons that make the Carrier Fleet toast.
China has DF-21, a weapon that will change Naval Warfare every bit as much as the invention of the airplane. As it stands there is nowhere to hide. For the Navy to remain effective when all activities can be tracked from space, from land, on the sea and under is to automate, downsize and instead of focusing on capital ships start building smaller, less sexy, easily replaceable, ship and subs.
But Politicians won’t turn out to smash bottle on drones and dinky ships.
Impressive Ribbons, need impressive ships.
Once launched who cares if they turn into big target just waiting to be hit…
The job is done once the band doesn’t play.
They’ll be no pity for the sailors, forgotten, alone and at bottom of the ocean.
Far, far away.
US fighter aircraft usually carry fewer missiles than their Russian counterparts and then fire a single missile (per target) and help guide each to its target.
Russian aircraft usually carry more missiles and fire them in salvos in order to overwhelm an aggressor.
Sea-skimming missiles are programmed to fly low to avoid radar detection, but when approaching their target some of those missiles (fired in salvos) will do what’s called a pop-up maneuver.
That’s where the missile climbs to an altitude that allows it to dive down on the target thus increasing the number of angles that a defensive system like a Phalanx must defend. The near vertical angle of attack exceeds the angle that the Phalanx can even point at.
Between Russia’s missiles and their torpedoes, our surface ships are largely just targets. In fact, that’s what even our own submariners call them –‘targets’.
These floating grey whales that we call aircraft carriers are built to project power against small, largely defenseless countries, not well-equipped ones like Russia. France could sink them…
That is when they (the Phalanx) are operational. Seems they vibrate themselves to pieces. I watched a doc on them a while back. The are just like that other boondoggle, the F35, plagued with problems. They are offline more than usable. IIRC, on one ship the Phalanx had been offline for more than 9 months at the time the doc was made.
Not quite yet rusty hulks on the bottom.
That’s the Japanese navy.
Sure you can attack a US aircraft carrier. But then you have to ask yourself, “do I feel lucky?”
Well, do you with the understanding your “tribe” will be targeted by the multi-theatre, multi-service application of known, hypothesized and unimagined weapon systems manned and directed by highly trained personnel motivated by loss of fellow tribe members?
Made me think of this song
Here comes the helicopter– second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher….Id make somebody pay
Released in 1984 no less by Bruce Cockburn
Poor Bruce is a bit of a lefty as the next line of the song :
”I dont believe in guarded borders and I dont believe in hate”
-made me laugh inside
Well, for those who haven’t seen the Lada Vesta, they most certainly CAN make a decent car.
Have you looked at some of the cargo haulers? They aren’t in the best of condition either.
It is always the supply lines which starve the soldiers out.
Stucky- The Ruskies don’t need missiles of that sort, they have far better weapons to handle aircraft carriers. Take the USS Donald Cook for example, that ship has been disabled COMPLETELY by a electronic weapon the Russians developed called Khilbiny. The Donald Cook had to be towed home not once but twice with the entire electronics blown out. A Russian aircraft flies over a ship and within seconds renders it useless. This weapon disables all radar, information systems, operations systems etc.
I’m not saying we don’t have advanced weapons also but the Russians have used theirs so there is no question as to their validity.
The Russians just announced that they are jamming the eastern Med near their bases in Syria and I haven’t heard a peep from Nato or the U.S. denying that it is happening.
One inexpensive and very quiet diesel/electric submarine with a crew of about fifty lying in wait equipped with a battery of Russian Shqval II high-speed torpedoes (maximum speed = 230+MPH, range = 9+miles) and one six billion dollar nuclear powered US aircraft carrier on the bottom of the ocean.
American generals and admirals are always preparing for the ‘last’ war instead of the ‘next’ war.
Our carriers are large grey whales, just waiting to be harpooned…
All kinds of unexpected things can happen in actual combat. An interesting example was the British pursuit of the German battleship Bismarck. The Bismarck had state of the art radar controlled anti aircraft artillery to defend itself but the British Swordfish torpedo bombers were obsolete biplanes and were so slow the Bismarck’s fire control couldn’t direct the guns. What DID work however was depressing the battleships giant main guns and fire salvos into the water as the torpedo bombers made their run. The enormous columns of water put up by the shells blinded the pilots and brought some down.
Something like that could happen too with supersonic sea skimming missiles. You don’t have to hit the missile with a projectile just fire some 5 inch naval artillery in front of it. If the missile hits the spray at 2000mph it would be like hitting concrete!
Are you fucken serious unit8652!
Could it be that you ain’t telling us something?
Maybe you are in charge of artificial reef development at Electric Boat.
Because that is the defense strategy only a retard would use…
or something selling moar ships…
Are you a retard?
or just a salesman?
Anyway one cuts it not a great way to sell a young buck on seeing the world…
Unless, I suppose the victim is willing and wants to punch a ticket to Davy Jones Locker..
Skipping 5 inch shells across the water. Hoping that somehoo by chance the spray as it hit a wave would flail up like some wounded fucken duck and magically splash down an incoming missile.
Whatta maroon!
You do realize that in the terminal phase all these Russian missiles climb to altitude to overcome point defense….
All I can say is you first, I promise to be there to wish you bon voyage.
My only advice is you best wear a hard hat with your leather pants..
Think about it? 2000mph is about 2700 feet per second. A plume of water from a 5 inch naval gun might take 2 or 3 seconds to collapse. That means the missile would travel over a mile before the wall of water would be gone. IOW you don’t have to ‘hit’ the missile just get within 1 mile of its forward path to block it. I also suspect the missile’s guidance system would get ‘confused’ if it lost sight of its target for a few seconds before impact. These are automated systems guided by radar, IR or some other homing device and a plume of water is going to obscure the target from the seeker even if the missile does not run smack into it.
Okay so you’re a retard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Kalibr
that won’t fucken work. How high is this plume gonna be….
That was kinda harsh don’t ya think? It did sound like an interesting idea. Especially to folks who don’t know anything about naval warfare.
fuck I fucked up that last comment..
Rest assured all the I called unit8675309 a fucken maroon..
Don’t ordinary sane Americans have some responsibility to save themselves, their country and the world by removing the crazies from power?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns5R7G6GCpM