BREAKING POINT

Guest Post by David Erickson

Any observant person can see that the political divide in our country has reached the breaking point. It has been growing for years, but ever since the election of Donald Trump it has grown enormous, and more visible. There is no stepping back from the brink. No matter which side wins in elections going forward there will be enormous irreconcilable problems. And it is more than just elections. Both sides, especially the left, perceive the other side to be not just political opponents with whom they disagree, but despicable human beings who don’t deserve a voice in government, or for that matter don’t deserve a voice, period.

Whenever the right wins, like say for example Donald Trump gets reelected in 2020, the left will protest and demonstrate endlessly, and they will undoubtedly ratchet up the violence to even greater levels. Angry demonstrators harassing politicians and journalists at their homes and in restaurants, right wing commentators being banned on Twitter and Facebook, and Antifa thugs beating people up will be quaint compared to what will come next. An eventual civil war is a very real possibility. Whenever the left comes back into power, say for example when someone like Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders wins, the right will suffer and complain, and the already unsolvable problems (growing debt, uncontrolled immigration, endless wars, stifling political correctness, etc.) will eventually crush the country, with or without a civil war.

If such a situation existed in, say, a business arrangement between partners, the partners would undoubtedly go their separate ways. If such a situation existed in a marriage, the partners would undoubtedly get a divorce. So it would seem natural to an impartial observer that a “divorce”, i.e., a separation or secession would be a desirable outcome for our current political situation, yet very, very few people ever even mention this as a possible solution, let alone recommend it.

The left never seriously entertains or even considers secession (despite a feeble attempt at Calexit recently) for a variety of reasons. For one, they have been brainwashed to think that secession is only an option for white racist Southerners. For another, they are more interested in dominating others, and telling them how they must live, than they are in living their own lives unhindered by those they perceive to be Neanderthals on the right. As an experiment, just ask any leftist who lives in a nearly entirely blue state (say Massachusetts) the following question: If you could legally and democratically separate your state from the rest of the country, so you could form your own government (and therefore be rid of the evil Trump forever) and not be politically tied to the Neanderthals in rest of the country, except for possibly a mutual defense agreement (and possibly a few other ties similar to the original Articles of Confederation), would you want that? Ninety-five percent of the time the answer will be NO. (This is also why none of the celebrities who said they would move to Canada if Trump was elected actually did so.) Most of the left, as much as they complain about Trump, and claim to hate him, would rather have him as a president than secede. A possible 3rd reason is that most leftists at least subconsciously realize that their socialist plans won’t work without a sizeable percentage of the population that is not on welfare or some other government assistance.

The right also never seriously entertains or even considers secession for a variety of reasons. The main reason is that they have bought into the Pledge of Allegiance nonsense (one nation, indivisible, etc., state worship at its finest) and worship the U.S. flag to such an extent that they can’t conceive of any other political arrangement. Note that if the “red” portion of America became the whole of America, as described in the commentary referenced at the end of this commentary, and was still called the United States of America, that America could keep the same flag (with fewer stars), but for some reason most on the right can’t grasp that. The right needs to start seriously considering secession, because at current demographic trends (due largely to immigration, both legal and illegal) the right is soon going to be a permanent minority in this country forever. Trump was the last gasp opportunity to get this country back on track, but for various reasons he is not getting the swamp drained. The right will not get another chance.

Even most libertarians seldom or never mention secession. Secession should be a no-brainer for libertarians. Smaller countries equals smaller, more localized governments. The separate countries could maintain, if they desired, an extremely limited agreement with the other countries for trade, mutual defense, etc., similar to the original Articles of Confederation. It would have to be extremely limited to ensure the (new) federal government doesn’t become as huge and overbearing as our current federal government is. The U.S. Constitution supposedly was designed to prevent just such a government as our current federal government. But due to deficiencies in the Constitution (some of which, in fairness to the Founders, would have been almost impossible for them to foresee 230 years ago), and relentless indoctrination of the people by the government indoctrination centers (public schools), media, “progressive” politicians, etc., and general complacency by the public, the constitution is virtually ignored now except for technical details such as the mechanism for electing representatives, senators, and the president, appointing judges, etc.

It is true that any secession would have its problems. For starters there would have to be an agreement to even do it. Then there would obviously be contention over where the new borders would be. A separation based on political philosophy rather that existing state borders would be by far the best. Many of the “blue” states (based on election results from the 2016 presidential election) have significant geographical areas that are “red” (California and Nevada are good examples). Some of the “red” states have significant populations that are “blue” (Florida and Michigan are good examples). So a separation based on current congressional district boundaries would be by far the best method, or county borders in those areas that have large congressional districts geographically. The congressional district boundaries have been gerrymandered to such an extent that they do a good job of separating red voters from blue voters. There will obviously be islands of one color that won’t fit easily into their “own” country, such as Chicago and Detroit, but by using congressional district boundaries these areas will be kept to a minimum. Also, any person who ended up in a country they didn’t like would have the option to unconditionally move to one of the other countries for some period of time after the separation became official (say five years).

Another problem with secession would be how to share our current national debt. By far the best solution to this problem is to simply repudiate all of the debt that is owed to foreigners. This would obviously get rid of a sizeable portion of the debt, and it would also punish the lenders for facilitating the irresponsible spending habits of our current federal government, and hopefully cause them to refrain from lending money to any of the new governments. (I say “hopefully” because many lenders are so stupid that they might continue to lend money even after we default on what we currently owe.) The remainder of the debt, as well as the allocation of responsibility for all unfunded liabilities, would have to be adjudicated during the secession negotiations, but mathematically it would at least be possible to solve these problems, unlike our current debt situation which is mathematically impossible to solve without serious economic hardship to a majority of the population at some point.

Secession will not eliminate the problems caused by the Deep State, but it will help to alleviate those problems. The Deep State will obviously continue to exist, and will keep pushing its agenda, but it will be much harder or impossible for the Deep State to get its desired outcome when it has to control/coerce multiple countries. Say for example when it starts another war in the Middle East, it probably won’t be able to get all of the countries to go to war. It is always easier for it with centralization, which is why it is always pushing globalization.

So there would be challenges to a separation, but the rewards would be immense. Not only is separation a fairly good solution, it is the ONLY practical solution. All other roads will lead to continual bickering and fighting, with the eventual complete collapse of the U.S. due to debt and/or a civil war. So it is time to at least start discussing secession. We certainly won’t get there without discussion, except for possibly an acrimonious secession à la 1861, with a similar result.

See for a good description of what a possible secession would look like. However, as I noted above, the new borders should be based on congressional district boundaries rather than existing state borders. So, for example, the new country of Cascadia would be roughly western Washington and Oregon (those areas west of the Cascade Mountains), a strip of California along the coast down to Los Angeles with an inland bulge in the bay area as far as Sacramento, and then those areas of California south and east of Los Angeles to the Nevada and Arizona borders, and would also include southern Nevada (metropolitan Las Vegas area). Perhaps optionally it could extend inland through the tribal areas of northern Arizona and New Mexico, with an upward leg along the blue areas of Colorado (Colorado Springs, Denver, etc.). The new country of New England would be similarly formed. The remainder of the country would probably be a single country (USA), but there is no reason why it couldn’t separate into two or more counties if it wanted to.

P.S. On a personal note, I live in a blue state (California), in a blue county (Los Angeles County), and in a blue congressional district, the 25th Congressional District, which just elected a Democrat to congress in the election last month. However the 25th Congressional District was a reliably Republican district for many years prior to this most recent election. The fact that it went blue is in accordance with the trend I mentioned above wherein the right is going to become a permanent minority soon. From my personal standpoint, I will probably be better off if the above secession never happens. However it is ethically and practically the only solution to our current problems, so I have to advocate for it even though it is probably against my own personal interests. However if the above secession did happen, and I ended up in Cascadia, I would probably stay where I am for a variety of reasons, unless things became unbearable. In that case I would find a spot in the USA that I liked and move there.

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SmallerGovNow
SmallerGovNow

I don’t think any of this will ever happen unless there is a real civil war, foreign military attack on US soil, or serious and unsolvable financial collapse. Sure, the author’s possible solutions sound good but IMO there is going to have to be some sort of a “forcing function” similar to those I listed above (or any other serious black swan one can think of). Chip

22winmag - Yankee by birth-Southerner by choice
22winmag - Yankee by birth-Southerner by choice

Giant Meteor is 2029, correct?

J Chambers
J Chambers

Stars and bars forever!

Ammo

http://www.soj51.org

We are trying in Northern California to go are own way….” and every time we try to get out, they suck us back in”…liberals need conservatives to beat up on, venting their hatred has become a full time job because of self- loathing from their ” white guilt” affliction. Someone has to be responsible for the outpouring of hate from groups like Anti-fa and Indivisibles, so it’s white conservative males, otherwise they would end up cannibalizing themselves….so in the meantime there will be no secession from the Union or a new State of Jefferson. So here are 5 rules I picked up from some else [ maybe off this site]..Rule #1–nobody is coming to save you; rule #2, everything is your responsibility; rule #3, save who needs to be saved; rule #4, kill who needs to be killed; and rule #5 always be working on rules 1,2,3,and 4. It’s not nirvana, but it is peaceful when your eyes and ears are on, and trigger finger is on the ready.

Crawfisher
Crawfisher

After watching the last 10 years unfold (8 Obama + 2 Trump), I’m convinced we are currently in a civil war. It started to get hot since Trump’s election. Socialist have proven Rule #1. After 60 years on this planet, I finally purchased home defense weapons and acquired a CCP. I also own a few acres in the middle of nowhere, 1 ½ to 2 hours from the nearest Socialist controlled urban redistribution center.

I strive to live my life by Rule #2

Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson

Liberals need conservatives to economically support them.

Uncola

@ the author, David Erickson

Since I’m not seeing your name linked to any other website, I was wondering if you were a reader here, or if the link was just not embedded.

Either way, your presentation is definitely worthy of discussion.

You wrote:

It is true that any secession would have its problems. For starters there would have to be an agreement to even do it. Then there would obviously be contention over where the new borders would be. A separation based on political philosophy rather that existing state borders would be by far the best.

And

However if the above secession did happen, and I ended up in Cascadia, I would probably stay where I am for a variety of reasons, unless things became unbearable. In that case I would find a spot in the USA that I liked and move there.

I believe these two paragraphs contain the arguments as to why peaceful succession is not a viable solution to America’s current discord.

Therefore, if you read this comment, I would like to now challenge you to write about what you think I might mean.

In the meantime, thank you for initiating the conversation.

David Erickson
David Erickson

@Uncola,

I am a reader of TBP. There is no link to a website in the post because I wrote it for TBP and asked Administrator to post it, which he kindly did.

You are absolutely correct that my proposed solution is not a viable solution (although I am not sure I understand why the second paragraph you quoted is a clue to that). The probability of this country ever managing a peaceful secession is almost zero, for the same reasons that I mentioned in the post that secession is almost never discussed already, and some other reasons that I didn’t mention. (Although an acrimonious secession, resulting from “a real civil war, foreign military attack on US soil, or serious and unsolvable financial collapse”, as SmallerGovNow mentioned in the first comment to my post, has a somewhat higher probability.)

However I wrote the post anyway for the following reasons:

It is theoretically correct, even though the probability of it ever happening is almost zero. Similar to the way that many people (correctly) point out that the Federal Reserve causes far more problems than it solves (if it solves any), and call for the Federal Reserve to be abolished, even though the probability of that happening is roughly the same as the probability that this country will ever manage a peaceful secession.

It is personally satisfying to me to be able to present an actual solution (however unlikely) for our current problems to a wide audience, instead of just joining the constant bickering and insults on blogs and social media (although a lot of the bickering is entertaining, and is better than suppressing those opinions).

This post could possibly be a catalyst for serious debate that could eventually lead at least part way to a peaceful secession. If nothing else, that debate might a least smooth out the turbulence of an eventual acrimonious secession.

Uncola

David,

Very well. I’m gratified in two ways: First, that you’re a TBP reader and, second, for your above post (and comment).

You know, when a husband and a wife have irreconcilable differences, of course, divorce is more than a theoretical solution because they can part company and physically separate to diverse geographic locations.

But, a nation and its civilians? The logistics alone would doom the outcome before it started (i.e. your first quoted paragraph in my above comment).

Regarding your second paragraph in my above comment, you stated you would stay until it became “became unbearable”. So would many others, and, perhaps, like the frog in boiling water – by that time it would be too late.

In order for secession to work, there would need to be unity and accord not only between the separating groups, but also within each group, there would need to be a deadline, and separate locations for each group to possess.

Given all that, you and I are in agreement when you say:

…theoretically correct, even though the probability of it ever happening is almost zero

It would be like trying to sift sand from mud.

But it does make me wonder. Just as in hostile situations, we are advised to “shelter in place”, is it possible to “secede in place” as well? If so, what would that look like? Like Ayn Rand’s Atlas(es) “shrugging”, except into their own individual “Galt’s Gulches”; or, communities within communities.

Because if that is not possible, then, there will be violence.

Earlier this month, I wrote about two culture warriors who were debating political tribalism and I concluded the debate was rooted in identity.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, at the same time I was writing my article, one of the culture warriors, Ezra Klein, came to a similar conclusion in another piece entitled: A new theory for why Republicans and Democrats see the world differently.

Therein, Klein interviews a social scientist who wrote a book called “Prius or Pickup” and who, at the end of Klein’s above-linked article says this:

I’m an optimist and even I can’t generate much optimism now. The hatred of our opponents that accompanies a party system divided by worldview is self-reinforcing and, ultimately, dangerous.

We appear to be approaching a crucible moment. Robert Mueller appears ready to produce evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to help win the presidency. Federal law enforcement has already indicated Trump himself broke campaign finance laws. Yet I suspect Republicans will greet both developments with a collective shrug. When you hate your opponent as much as Republicans hate Democrats, it is hard to give an inch on anything. Their response will cause Democrats to hate Republicans even more than they do now. And so on and so on.

No mention of Spygate or Crossfire Hurricane and yet, it is the “Republicans” who greet “both developments with a collective shrug” because of “hate”?

Like I’ve stated before, the capacity of The Libtarded for psychological projection is beyond belief.

Which would be fine, if they left me alone. Unfortunately, that is not how they roll. They won’t rest until they have a transgender in every bathroom and a FEMA Camp for every thought criminal.

Irreconcilable differences, indeed.

I fear there will be no (as you say) “part way to a peaceful secession“. In the end, it will likely be all or nothing.

Thanks again for your post. I hope to see more articles from ‘ya. Cheers to the new year

no one
no one

Secession in place. As long as you pay your tribute/taxes to the overlords.

Unnegotiable
Unnegotiable

As long as you pay your tribute/taxes to the overlords.

Or not? Barters without borders?

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Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs

Doug..
Secession in place I think would happen on its own if the tranny in every home Federal Govt. Collapsed. It would be ugly for awhile. Born in 48 I remember it being like that every where. The country and township in rural areas and the Burrough, ward and neighborhood in the city was the center of everything important. Some neighborhoos were just 1 block but heaven forbid you should go in their without good reasons. The highways and boulevards we’re neutral. I can’t see that happening though. I’m convinced the Bolsheviks behind the scenes want civil war. They will back the libtards and progs(Liv’s off meds) and attempt to eradicate every last ounce of moral conservatism. The libs never get violent unless they think they are protected as in proud boys being hounded and jailed for fighting antifa.

David Erickson
David Erickson

Doug,

I think you are probably right that it will ultimately be all or nothing. Unfortunately, I think it will more likely be “all” than “nothing”, and a very ugly “all” to boot.

Cheers to the new year to you also. 2019 promises to be even more entertaining than 2018 has been so far.

Anonymous
Anonymous

” they are more interested in dominating others, and telling them how they must live”

That there is one of the main (hidden) problems .. also w/ domesticated city folks intent upon telling rural/small town folk how to live (in particular).

Stucky

This nasty looking Nigger Ho is about to embark on a reign of tyranny (at least in New York).

comment image

https://trump.news/2018-12-18-ny-attorney-general-promises-to-investigate-everyone-linked-to-trump.html

Civil war can’t come soon enough, far as I’m concerned.

A. R. Wasem
A. R. Wasem

She’s another fucking nigger idiot – it’s already all been “investigated” by the PTB and Trump is clean because he’s smart and. always employed the best shysters to dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s.

carlos danger
carlos danger

So f’n crazy. It’s hard to even believe.

Bilco

She should have been immediately removed from her incoming position for those comments. The idiots downstate voted her stupid nigger ass in. They never reap what they sow. Liberal policies have ruined this state,but lets elect this idiot. It is sickening.

YourAverageJoe
YourAverageJoe

Tied to a streetlamp and horse whipped…to serve as a warning to others.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Another witch hunt. Not investigating any evidence of crimes, but looking for anything that could suggest a crime.

Martel's Hammer

Other than the Slovak/Czech “divorce” of what was an unnatural union in the first place, none of the dissolutions happen without violence. It is a 4th Turning and an existential fight for the soul (and more importantly control) of the most powerful country on the planet. It will be a fight until one side is extinguished and no longer able to continue the contest. 2020-2025 is going to be very ugly I suspect.

BB
BB

Stucky is right . If there is a separation agreement or some type secession the nation I live in will have to free from these fucking niggers and the civil Rights laws that discrimination against white people . All affirmative action ,all quotes and any thing else that has to do with this nigger shit. If I never saw another black face that would be just fine with me. I so sick and tired of them and their never ending demands. Fucking parasites.
I can be around just about any other group and feel comfortable but not blacks.

Carlos Danger
Carlos Danger

35 years I have lived in my neighborhood… in the same house. My wife’s mother was here 40 years before that. Quiet, orderly and all white. well guess what…in the last three years niggers have made there way in here. Buying the homes that come up for sale as the old longtime residents pass away. How does this happen? This neighborhood is solid middle class and the homes average around 250,000. How do niggers get in here ?
We are looking at homes far away. There are some still out there but the choices are growing lesser by the day.
We are in North Wilmington, Delaware. Formerly all white, now completely invaded by black and brown.

P.S. Joe Biden lives 10 minutes from here. With armed security and a big ass wall around his property.

Fleabaggs
Fleabaggs

Carlos…
I suspect it happened by proxy. A real eastate fund etc. will buy a house in an all white area and rent it to one or more spliv families. That would be Ms. Spliv with a housing voucher and her 4 welfare checks disguised as kids plus her stud of the week who is on a prison pre release probation.

Vixen Vic
Vixen Vic

Exactly. Don’t forget Obama’s housing plan that stops building projects and puts the welfare queens in middle-class and upper-middle-class neighborhoods because they’re too white.

Not Sure

And another problem…… on and on it goes. I respect the author in his most peaceful solution to resolving the breaking point, but each problem he foresees is why secession would not work.
1. The combatants are hopelessly intermingled. To consider picking up and starting over for most is not possible. If moving to a red territory is not an option, the future for the “reds” in a “blue” would be bleak to hostile.
2. Imagine presiding over a “blue” territory and watching your cash cow (the working dirt people) fleeing like rats from a sinking ship; the iron curtain was not established to keep others out, but to keep its citizens in.
3. Long term, any socialist society will begin to fall apart when the money runs out. With survival as it’s motive, the fight will be bloody and both sides will fight to the end.
To sum up, the author provides a thoughtful and intelligent argument for attempting a solution before the bullets fly, but in the end, bullets will fly and there will be nothing anyone could have done to prevent the coming aggression.

monger
monger

Nice thoughts, without violence tho ? doubtful…

Partition triggered riots, mass casualties, and a colossal wave of migration. Millions of people moved to what they hoped would be safer territory, with Muslims heading towards Pakistan, and Hindus and Sikhs in the direction of India. As many as 14-16m people may have been eventually displaced, travelling on foot, in bullock carts and by train.

Estimates of the death toll post-Partition range from 200,000 to two million.

splurge
splurge

“No matter which side wins in elections going forward there will be enormous irreconcilable problems.”
I increasingly inclined to think that the american people have lost every election since they elected Lincoln.

Hollow man
Hollow man

We should split up save a lot of drama. We could have NE, SE, NW, SW. and of course Texas taking a little more along the Texas border.

GoneWest
GoneWest

The real solution is to stop using government as a wealth redistribution mechanism and a way to advantage one group over another.

Unless you divide up the country along some natural border (i.e. east and west of the Mississippi), you can just look at the history of Europe to see the likely result. The proposal for Cascadia is absurd. See the bottom of Maslow’s hierarchy for a clue.

All forms of welfare – corporate, individual, and otherwise – need to be stopped and the problems will work themselves out.

The problems we have are because some groups think they can steal from others with impunity using the government as their weapon.

Occams razor
Occams razor

You mean like LBJs scheme of the Democrats buying votes using taxpayer money? Great society, indeed!

James the Wanderer

” The fact that it went blue is in accordance with the trend I mentioned above wherein the right is going to become a permanent minority soon.”
The fact that you cannot even consider voting fraud on a massive scale shows how blinkered you really are. It has little to do with demographics (this last election), and EVERYTHING to do with vote harvesting, absentee ballots, etc.

David Erickson
David Erickson

You are right that election fraud, primarily by Democrats, is a significant (and growing) problem. However that doesn’t materially change any of the points that I made in my post. It simply means that the eventual near-total dominance by Democrats of government at the federal level will happen sooner than it otherwise would have happened from demographics alone.

Coalclinker
Coalclinker

This Mr. Erickson and many other Americans just don’t get the implications of the divide that’s going on. They don’t even want to think about the age-old solution that squabbling peoples usually turn to- Get rid of all of the people causing all of the problems, then you don’t have any more problems.

ed
ed

I agree the USA will not be one country in 2 decades tops. I hope it breaks apart peacefully like the USSR did into 15 countries… It will probably be triggered by economic collapse

mark
mark

I agree with your premise ed, but the shattering will happen much sooner then 2 decades and I see no chance for it to be peaceful. Uncola called it when he said:

“They won’t rest until they have a transgender in every bathroom and a FEMA Camp for every thought criminal.”

The hard core Liberty Lovers of all types and stripes who will not bow the knee to their god or their tyranny will one day be forced to fight…and fight we will. There will be rivers of American blood and after its over we will no longer be a player on the world stage. I also think that fits into the prophetic.

I long ago self sorted and “self secession” (another great line)…would help describe me…just waiting for: The shot heard around my homestead/farm (my world)…and then its on!

Great thought provoking post David!

TampaRed
TampaRed

kamala harris is objecting to one of trump’s judicial nominees because he’s a catholic male–

Kamala Harris Objects to Trump Judicial Nominee Because He’s a Catholic Man

overthecliff
overthecliff

There will be a financial collapse because the debt will be inflated away creating Zimbabwe and Venezuela. There will be no sub floor for the USA like the Dollar was for Zimbabwe. That is the way it always plays out. Assets will be what we can take and keep. We will have a collapse I just don’t know if it will be a collapse of civilization ala Rome or national ala Weimar.

overthecliff
overthecliff

Divorces almost always get nastier than they are intended to be. Some of them can be contentious unto death

grace country pastor

See the Georgia Guidestones. There are 7 plus billion people in the world. By these “new age 10 commandments” most of us have to go.

I am absolutely for peaceful secession but it’s just not in the cards. Animosity is being stoked on every level. Violence will be the inevitable result. It’s what “they” need… for us to remove ourselves from the equation. It seems we’ll be more than willing to comply.

I’m most content to live in an area with “my kind” of people. I’m open to visiting a different group, to enjoy for a short while what they have to offer and vise versa. Voluntary segregation is a natural human condition.

“They” are forcing all of humanity into a most unnatural set of circumstances. “They” want to recreate Genesis 11 conditions… the original one world order.

Diversity is nice so long as it remains diverse.

MICHAEL A DEWITT
MICHAEL A DEWITT

Finally someone gets it.. The Patterns are visible all around us.. It’s no coincidence the same thing is happening simultaneously in all Western Judeo-Christian Societies.. Climate worshipers are laughing while they instigate our societies into exterminating ourselves.. Why? So they can have their Tower of Babel free of those who know the Evil it represents..

Rather, Not
Rather, Not

Let’s have 38 ticks and my two dogs vote on whether to separate. Parasites cannot, and will not, allow themselves to be separated from hosts.

Ned2
Ned2

Another likely symptom is a large scale “white flight” a la 1970’s.
People with the means are already moving away from the Bluest states just as they fled the inner cities 40 years ago. An internal migration has already started.

M G
M G

I came back and read it…

Something is going to happen. I have a feeling it will not be a peaceful breakup. A bad sort of feeling.

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